Joel’s Death In The Last Of Us Part 2 Is Still The Tensest Moment In A Video Game

TheGamer Writes "The tensest moment I've seen in a video game hinges on a man nonchalantly introducing himself. There's violence after the introduction, sure, but it's in that moment, as recognition spreads across the faces of the people surrounding him, that the unease becomes unbearable."

[Vengeance1138]

Who honestly thought this would be a good idea for an article? Bring up a subject that hundreds of internet debates have been started on? What it shows is that Naughty Dog has zero respect for their characters and would much rather make games based on extreme feminism and "wahmen power" than make something millions of users would actually enjoy.
I'll surely never buy another Naughty Dog game again.

[Elda]

It's a fictional videogame with a fictional story & characters. It's not that serious...lol.

[VenomUK]

FFS. Don’t put story spoilers in a title!

[TallDarknWavy]

When you're paying for it, there's an expectation. You don't go looking for spoilers on a game and then decide if you're going to buy it, gamers got screwed with the worst story and characters in any game. The fact the idiot who wrote this spoiled the game in the title and that this got posted on this website is why I played it so early, to avoid the needless spoilers from online dweebs.
Naughty Dog actually thought they could make you empathize with the villain by making you play as her, which did nothing to ingratiate you to the embodiment of hardcore feminism - a girl who acts like a 17 year old guy, doing arm day every day and nothing else, and treating sex like meaningless recreation with no emotions attached, this is what feminism has done - lionized the behaviours of the worst person on earth, the 17 year old male.

[KillBill]

@VenomUK - too soon? lol

[frostypants]

It really was just horrible writing. The problem though is when devs WANT us to focus on their narrative but can't handle criticism. Can't have it both ways. If a game is narratively focused and that narrative is hack-ish YA emo schlock, they're going to hear about it.

[jambola]

You're on a site dedicated to video game ...

[Mr_cheese]

Have your opinion Vengeance but don't try to portraying as the fact of developers.

People liked the game, people didn't like the game. Individual preference.

Personally thought it was amazing from start to finish. Left me thinking about it for months after completing.

[Elda]

Agreed.

[Epicent3r1249]

Pretty sure the development team had a few people on it that pretty much stated this needed to be a story about Ellie without the patriarchal male antagonist. They literally just shit all over Joel. They made her a member of the LBGQT, hell....even in the first 30 seconds of the game you hear Ellie call someone a bigot. The game is one giant political statement. Including the developer who sat there on camera ranting about the leak but was apologizing profusely because he used the word "guys" when he addressed the viewers..I mean wtf...

[Mr_cheese]

To be fair, it sounds like that's a you issue.

Every game doesn't have to be about a straight white male who lives the conventional bible life style. Life is a saga with issues and stories about everything. If a developer wants to tell THEIR story in x way, then that's up to them and YOU as a consumer have the choice to either buy into it or not.

If you can't open your mind to the concept that people are different and can be represented on screen that way well then heck, unlucky for you.

[Hofstaderman]

Yup at first I was bummed that I didn’t get to play as Joel. By the time I got to Abby’s section I was so invested in the story I just couldn’t not play. Besides Abby’s better weapon selection the buildup to the characters confrontation in the theatre was excellent.

I know there’s spoilers in my post I’m assuming that those who have not played this game yet or who are attending to has avoided clicking on this this topic.

[S2Killinit]

Vengeance should not watch Game of Thrones.

He would have a melt down. Lol he would think there is an agenda to shock his sensibility. How old are these people you wonder sometimes.

[SmielmaN]

Agreed. What a massive disappointment this game was. Played it once and turfed it forever. They killed the franchise for political/feminist points for no reason at all.

[zidane1341]

You people who won’t stop spouting feminism/politics are so exhausting and misguided. Sounds like your just butthurt the game isn’t about another straight white male. Get over yourselfs. The game was amazing and actually took risks and did amazing with it.

[Pedantic91]

For clicks, plain simple.

[lucian229]

Oh please relax, it's a video game.

I am glad they did something bold. Sure I didn't want him to die but the game was a masterpiece anyway

[jwillj2k4]

Yes we all know it’s a video game. Now that we’ve established that, who are you to tell someone to calm down about something they spent REAL dollars on???

[zidane1341]

@jwill, at the end of the day, it’s a video game. It’s honestly pretty sad that some people can only see some bullshit propaganda crap when there isn’t one.

[Stanjara]

I couldn't say it better myself.

[DarXyde]

"What it shows is that Naughty Dog has zero respect for their characters and would much rather make games based on extreme feminism and "wahmen power" than make something millions of users would actually enjoy.
I'll surely never buy another Naughty Dog game again."

Respectfully, I completely disagree. There's a lot I can say shit the storytelling in depth, but for the sake of simplicity, I'll make this relatively short. The ending of The Last of Us Part I really made for an excellent ambivalent moment where you always knew that someone was coming for Joel for his actions. It did a very good job of setting up the lore for the sequel; Ellie was allowed to live because Abby's revenge was targeted as much as possible, and Ellie was clearly motivated by her desire for revenge. It's the cycle of violence and it's handled so well by the end of the game. Most of us hated Abby for that and most of us were pissed at Ellie by the end of the game, but how phenomenal was it when you realize that Ellie's desire for revenge cost her everything, even guitar playing, the thing that connected her to her father figure?

Like many other instances of interesting and great characters dying in fiction, if the payoff was well worth it, it's a great plot device—which I think this was.

[Imalwaysright]

What? They retconned TloU ending in order to fit Abby's story! Ellie was allowed to live because it was Joel's redemption. He didn't manage to save his daughter but he managed to save a girl that wasn't his daughter but that he loved her as if she was. Parental love was the main core theme of TloU wich is perhaps why so many love that game and why the characters were so important to a lot of people.

Also I have to disagree when you say that the cycle of violence was well handled. We're talking about a person that traveled across the country killing dozens of people in order to finally get her revenge and potentially allthose deads could lead to hundreds of violence cycles. This is a case in wich a core theme is completely trampled by the core gameplay of a game.

[DarXyde]

Imalwaysright,

You say retconned, but I don't think that word means you think it does. The parental redemption point is also true, but it does not alter the continuity of the lore either. It was very clear that Joel's decision was going to be a point of tension between him and Ellie at a later point(very clearly foreshadowed by the fact that he lied to her).

You're allowed to disagree on the cycle of violence being handled well, but think about this for a moment:

You're in a world where there is no law and justice isn't coming. No institutions exist to offer any kind of respite. No comfort, no reparations. Ellie took things into her own hands, and her actions make a lot of sense. The closest thing to family she had was taken from her in front of her eyes. She was taught how to survive, how to be strong and she was made powerless when she needed to be strongest. She could not protect the man who had always protected her as best he could. Sure, she saved his life in the first game, but there was a clear enemy and people she clearly identified. Ellie was kind of the embodiment of Hattori Hanzo's line in Kill Bill: "Revenge is never a straight line. It's a forest, and like a forest it's easy to lose your way … to get lost … to forget where you came in." Abby was frustrated and angry by Ellie's desire for revenge and despite all the friends killed along the way, she STILL gave Ellie a chance to leave (after beating her senseless). Ellie still came back for revenge and had a chance to take Abby down. She was emaciated, weak, and disoriented. After that struggle, after Ellie lost her will to continue fighting, even though she could have won. The cycle of violence continues in that world and will never end, but the cycle of revenge between Ellie and Abby was broken. And it was Abby's decision to pursue Joel that cost her everything; likewise, Ellie's decision to pursue Abby cost her everything.

I think it was remarkably well handled. There were no winners. Ellie was the only one who had a chance at happiness, and she chose revenge one last time. It cost her her family, her fingers, and her hobby that connected her with her surrogate father. Her entire world got dismantled, and when she decided to return, nothing was waiting for her. It was genuinely masterful and didn't care about giving anyone happy closure. It told a very real story about how these things turn out. I suspect people will look back on this and say it was ahead of its time, honestly.

[Imalwaysright]

Don't insult my intelligence. The ending was retconned in order to fit TloU2 story and since I'm lazy I'm just going to post a link in wich it was explained in detail and much better than I could ever do how the game was retconned.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Th...

Nah, I still disagree for the simple reason I mentioned so let's agree to disagree.

[outsider1624]

Dont insult my intelligence he says and goes to show us a post from a subreddit hell bent on hating Tlou2. Dude..any post from there is hate on tlou2.

First thing first..retconned or not..they now have the technology to you know upgrade the visuals to tlou2. So obviously they're gonna make it closer to tlou2.

Secondly we all saw the ending of the first. The ending was perfect. It left people speculating on so many things. Now did the game needed a sequel? Maybe maybe not.
But ND came up with story to continue..and went with it. This hate on this game is so ridiculous..that it's just sad at this point.

[Imalwaysright]

outsider1624

Dude, don't give me your bullshit. You know very well why I provided that link so much so that you can't even deny that the game was retconned or argue against the points made in that post without being intellectually dishonest. No, the changes that were made didn't have anything to do with technological advancements. They were made to fit Abby's story.

"But ND came up with story to continue..and went with it."

Yes by retconning an ending that in your opinion was perfect.

[DarXyde]

Imalwaysright,

A few things, mate.

1. If you feel that your intelligence was being attacked, that wasn't the point. Not knowing what a word means doesn't make anyone less intelligent—if we're being real, "retconned" is one of those words that gets thrown around a lot and it loses its meaning after a while. The original meaning of "woke" for example has been completely hijacked. Not meant to insult your intelligence at all. Not my style.

2. I skimmed your link and read up on the operating room bit. I think that comes down to artistic choices and/or the memory of the storyteller (who might remember these events differently). Even so, I don't really see why that's a retcon. It would, at most, change your perceptions of the operating room and what characters should look like. To be fair, I'm a bit pressed for time and only got as far as the Operating Room section and there might be more compelling evidence in your favor. I'll give it a full read as time permits.

3. You are more than welcome to still disagree. For me, the narrative makes a ton of psychological and sociological sense and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It's unfortunate that you didn't, but fair enough.

[Imalwaysright]

I know the meaning of the word and I don't have the patience to deal with bullshiters and intellectually dishonest people.

Retconned: "Retroactive continuity, or retcon for short, is a literary device in which established diegetic facts in the plot of a fictional work (those established through the narrative itself) are adjusted, ignored, supplemented, or contradicted by a subsequently published work which recontextualizes or breaks continuity"

You don't even have to read that post wich went into extreme detail to know that the ending was retconned. You just had to play the original right before playing the sequel to notice that for example the surgeon that Joel killed in the original was in fact not Abby's father. The ending of TloU was not in any way made to setup the sequel. That ending served the story of the original and the main core theme of TloU and was done brilliantly that is until Neil Druckmann took a shit on it and destroyed the legacy of the original by retconning it.

" I think that comes down to artistic choices and/or the memory of the storyteller"

If you can't be honest don't even bother replying to me.

[TricksterArrow]

Great game! Loved it.

[Killer2020UK]

I can't believe an actual grown ass human being wrote this without irony.

[jambola]

Thegamer
That's who

[Killa78]

Such a stupid take. The gaming community can be an embarrassment at times.

[zidane1341]

Lol you and TallDark are so jaded by life. Naughty dog actually pulled off a huge risk and it paid off. Both of your criticisms are sad. Don’t even get me me started about that “feminism” BS. If your going to survive in a world like in this game, your going to have to mature fast and be in the best physical shape you can be. It has nothing to do with feminism, and the fact you play both sides is really amazing.

[Neonridr]

*spoiler alert*

[RaidenBlack]

wait .... Joel dies in TLOU 2?!

[TheEnigma313]

Should have played it by now. Been over 2 1/2 years biw.

[TheEnigma313]

*now

[TheFirstClassic]

Not all of us have enough free time to play every major release soon after it comes out. That's not that long.

[zidane1341]

I guess we can’t even bring up how Aerith dies. 🥴🙄

[BlackTar187]

A response really was 2.5 years wasn’t long enough. Lmao if you haven’t played it in 2.5 years that is your fault.

[Neonridr]

I have, I'm just having fun with the article title.

[seanpitt23]

I just hope they kill Nathan drake in uncharted 5 he's had it coming for years!

[DarkZane]

Nathan Drake, the luckiest character ever, but somehow also the one with the worst luck. I am amazed all that climbing cliffs and jumping from rooftops didn't kill him yet.

[masterfox]

this is why I didn't play this garbage Tlou p2, Ellie was never the main protagonist of the TLOU... oh and yeah big spoiler in the article title lol

[TricksterArrow]

That's OK. Protagonists can change and characters can die.

[anast]

@Chubby

"This comment speaks volumes more about you than Masterfox.Apparently not liking a game makes you some king of Neo Nazi now."

Your conclusion is more extreme than mine. So wouldn't your response speak volumes about you actually?

[Elda]

I just bought a brand new copy for $10 for a friend to try.

[anast]

I bought one for 2 cents the other day. In fact they are just giving them out all over the city...

[Elda]

Fabulous if true...lol! TLOU2 is an excellent game.

[anast]

It's is a good game though.

[RedDevils]

Where? so I can make profit on it.

[anast]

@ Devil

Somewhere in the metaverse.

[Yui_Suzumiya]

I got day one for full price and had the platinum trophy after two playthroughs which was 2 weeks after launch

[anast]

I actually bought mine day 1 too. I still play it ever so often. It's def in my top 3 for best games last gen.

[mastershredder]

Play more games.

[MrVux000]

Pretty much this. This is the same level of nonsense when people compared TLOU2 to Schindlers List.

It's really telling, that these people have not really played many notable games or started gaming in past decade or so.

But then again, there are certain group of people that have not eve played TLOU1 before playing TLOU2... so them making these nonsensical statements is not so shocking. Lol

[VerminSC]

As a big gamer, Can you name a game that has a moment that as tense? I can’t.

I’d love to hear recommendations, not trolling.

[P_Bomb]

Dead Space 2 eye poke machine, heh! I still have flashbacks!

[goldwyncq]

Here's one.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[jambola]

Persona 5
Waiting for a character to download stuff to a flash drive in secret when tbe person catching them was really close

[Vithar]

LOL this title

[GoodGuy09]

Nah. It kinda...just happened and I was just "...ok, I guess." Lol.

[Brazz]

Da fu@#$ dude! That's is a huge spoiler, i mean, the game is not that old!

[Futureshark]

Wile E Coyote fails to catch Roadrunner.

[Crows90]

Ummm you mean the worst story moment in history of gaming? I was more tensed with timesplitter story cutscenes.

[Inverno]

It's not that tense, it's graphic but there could've been more build up. I'm glad they killed him though, not often in a game they kill off the main protagonist permanently. Now you want a real emotional, tensed death in a video game? Shadow of The Colossus, years later it still depresses me.

[frostypants]

SotC was art. TLoU2 was the product of the head writer's cocaine habit.

[Imalwaysright]

SoTC is still my favorite Sony's 1st party game. I played the PS2 version and despite all its technical problems the emotional experience it provided me is unmatched by any other game and what makes it even more impressive is that Team Ico managed to create so much emotion without having to use of words or dialogue.

[DrDoomer]

Great, this shitty can of worms again.

[gold_drake]

oooff, spoiler alert ha.

[FPS_D3TH]

It certainly rustled plenty of Jimmies

[Walweeze]

I had a great time with the game and it was amazing having last of us 2 then ghost of tsushima back to back months

[Storm23]

Both amazing games for sure

[TeamIcoFan]

TLOU2 still living rent free in peoples heads I see.

[EmperorDalek]

Not really, I was too busy thinking "Oh, they're going in this direction then"

The tensest I've played was between Mass Effect 2's suicide mission, and the lead in to the end of Outer Wilds.

[Flewid638]

Definitely a pinnacle moment in gaming. Commonplace in TV shows or movies but to see manbabies lose their shit during it all was friggin hysterical. lol.

Great game.

[jambola]

The irony is that you sound like the biggest manbaby

[BRAN117DON]

wow thanks for spoiling the game for me

[BrainSyphoned]

The Gamer being the people they always are.

[Levii_92]

No i don’t agree, even if it wasn’t so poorly writen and forced. IMO opinion the tensest moment in a video game was a certain Kratos moment from GOW 2018.

[ChubbyBlade]

You haven’t played many games then

[Yui_Suzumiya]

Got it Day one and had the platinum trophy within two weeks. Masterpiece.

[ChubbyBlade]

Average gameplay, great graphics, contrived writing.

[TricksterArrow]

Every game has contrived writing.

[ChubbyBlade]

@trickster & Kyle
Guess neither of you know what contrived means. Thanks for proving that.

[ChubbyBlade]

I’ve had tenser moments. Especially in gameplay.

That scene didn’t have my hands tighten, start sweating and get my heart beating like a close match does at all. I just sat there and thought “great so now I won’t have Joel for the rest of the game. Yay….”

[GenWorld]

The death of Ghost in MW2 Original hits harder. That was just annoying in LOU2.

[EazyC]

Ghost in the original MW2 was pretty much a generic NPC soldier, they just gave him a mask to distinguish him

[GenWorld]

And it still hit harder.

[Knushwood Butt]

The fact that some people get so passionate about this is testament to how well it was done.

Let me give an example of the opposite scenario.

*Warning, Star Wars spoilers ahead*

As a kid I saw Star Wars IV (a new hope) as one of the first, if not the first film I ever saw in a cinema/theater. It blew me away and Han Solo was my hero as a kid, for many years.

Cut forward 30 years to Star Wars VII (force awakens ?) and Han gets killed. I honestly couldn't care less. In fact, I was glad they killed him off, because the Han in that film simply wasn't 'Han', just a totally different character that I had no connection with.

That's how NOT to do it.

[jambola]

The point was that upsetting people doesn't mean it's well done
Best case scenario it means tlou 1 set up Joel well and likable

[Knushwood Butt]

It set him up well, yes, but likable?

[EazyC]

Not at all. Red Dead 2 had excellent tension buildup, I actually felt real anxiety during some parts of it.

That only happens in the BEST storytelling works, and pretty much never in videogames.

[LoveSpuds]

**Spoilers for other characters in TLoU2**

It wasn't so much tense as it was shocking, but I couldn't believe it when Jessy was killed, it was just so sudden that it caught me off guard and I genuinely let out an audible gasp and called out his name, such a cool character.

Personally, I rate TLoU2 as one of my favourite ever games. Rather that play it safe, ND really did go for it with the story and I cannot believe how they got me to empathise with Abbey by the end of the game. I have never played a game that had me so invested in the characters as this game did.

[SeTTriP]

There are no villains in tlou.

[metalhead]

Spoiler Alert: you don’t get to play as snake for most of MGS2

[ufo8mycat]

Stop whining about spoilers. The game has been out 2 1/2 years. If you haven’t played it by now, you obviously weren’t interested in the game in the first place.

[JaXion5]

That’s the dumbest logic I’ve heard in awhile.

[Yui_Suzumiya]

Thank you

[NapalmSanctuary]

I'm surprised no golf club manufacturer got in on the advertising opportunity. I'd have been all in on that.

[deleted]

This legitimately made me laugh! X'D

"Titleist: Nothing beats your opponent better than our clubs, so get out there and knock a hole in one!"

[Demetrius]

One of the stupidest things to happen in gaming for this series smh I grew onto Joe from the first last of us but then boom killed em off, that’s like naughty dog killing off Nathan Drake or tomb raider losing Lara Croft smh I couldn’t finish the game after that cause it just felt MEH with pretty graphics

[SoulWarrior]

Very divisive game, I enjoyed playing but did not enjoy Ellie's character this time, Abby I felt indifferent towards, I think the game should have been 5 hours or so shorter, started to feel like it dragged for me and I wasn#t the biggest fan of the story, despite this I'd still give it a solid 8.

[shadowT]

No spoiler warning..

[SpinalRemains138]

Lol no. Nearly every successful Returnal run is miles more tense.

[jjb1981]

I remember a week before this game came out, some loser created an N4G account with the name AbbyKilledJoel and just spammed all the comment sections of every LoU2 article. Somebody sure was living a crappy life to want to ruin it for everyone. Then a mod must have deleted it but the damage was done.