Xbox Series S isn’t holding next-gen back, reality is

Devs will always have to cater for the lowest common denominator, which the Series S isn’t.

[stonecold3]

yes it is holding back multiplatform games going forward as developer move away from ps4 and xbox one as series s been on par with ps5 in term raw power it no where near the level of power of ps5

[IMissJimRyan]

But developers still haven't abandoned old gen and low end computers. When they will leave this market has been delayed much longer than anyone predicted or would like, but it is not possible to grapple with reality, or think that we will see 2025 in 2022. The article is right.

[Crows90]

That's not how it works. Again....devs don't focus on low end PC setups. It's not optimized for those setups at all. So you could get horrible fps and other stutters because the game just doesn't work on low end due to no optimization and lack of power.

But yes until the old gen is left behind they're still developing for the lowest common denominator which is the Xbox one.

[SullysCigar]

The series S will be the lowest common denominator. It already is for the upcoming games MS claim are "current gen only".

Devs have already acknowledged the impossible squeeze thanks to series S. Even internally - 343i on key reason Halo Infinite has no split screen, a franchise staple:

"Baron points to as an issue outside the technological ones is the certification Halo Infinite would need to run local co-op for ALL THE PLATFORMS that the game is available on which would present their own challenges as well."

[Profchaos]

I think the main point is going forward when cross gen development ceases

[Joe913]

I guess yall know more than the devs lol. We have already had a few devs speak on this. They say it is and they make the games so that is what they say it is. If you don't make games you can't say they are wrong, you have no clue again unless you are a game developer who has experence working on these platforms. I really hate how everyone in the comments all of a sudden are more professional than the actual professinals lol. When we have devs standing up for XBSS then you can say that but I havent heard anyone defend it but Xbox fans. Please if I am wrong drop a link to an article where a developer is defending the S.

[darthv72]

@Sully... steamdeck will, not Series S. If a game can run on the steamdeck it most certainly can run on the Series S.

[Zhipp]

@SullysCigar
Do you honestly believe, knowing what we do about Halo Infinite, that they were referring to the Series S with that statement as opposed to the One S?

[gangsta_red]

Which multiplatform games is the Series S holding back?

[FlavorLav01]

Gotham Knights? It’s next-gen only and stuck at 30fps on all platforms when series X and PS5 are clearly capable of 60fps on almost every game.

[gangsta_red]

Gotham Knights? The game that can't even run correctly on most high end PC's?

https://geektyrant.com/news...

Yeah, I'm sure it was the Series S that held that game back and not poor optimization, weak combat, a lackluster story and other points of criticism that was aimed at the game.

"...when series X and PS5 are clearly capable of 60fps on almost every game."

https://www.theverge.com/20...

Yeah....clearly almost.

[anubusgold]

@FlavorLav01 Gotham Knights is a trash game every people with 1600 dollar graphics cards can barley get over 60fps and the game looks old its these crap developers fault not the hardware.

[neutralgamer1992]

I will take the developers word over somebody who has no experience simple as that in my opinion coming for my Xbox fan Sony made the correct decision of having the same specs but one costing $100 less

Even with such low point of series S PS5 is outselling Xbox in every territory. As Xbox fan I'm tired of waiting Microsoft better start delivering from next year enough of these excuses man it seems like we've been waiting for proper triple A Blockbuster exclusives from the last 3 years of Xbox 360 till now

And I know that's not a popular opinion because of game pass everybody thinks the Microsoft can slack off just because they're putting their games one day one game pass but where are those games

You could definitely tell how Nintendo and Sony run their studios and how Microsoft lacks in that leadership because it seems like every one of their developers are running into development issues

[Lightning77]

It's weird because Colisto Protocol has a 60 fps mode. Gotham Knights is a true last gen game running only on new gen hardware but yet it's 30 frames that aren't even locked. The game graphically is doing very basic things and DF even compared it to Arkram Knights an old 360 and PS3 game. The game should be 60 fps there's no excuses considering it's a last gen game.

[S2Killinit]

Its going to be holding back xbox because MS will literally have to make each game for two different consoles. I wonder if the strategy was a bust for them or the extra bragging rights for the cheap console purchases outweighs the detriment to xbox going forward.

[anubusgold]

NO they dont Xbox development kits all have a series S mode its just a flip of a switch.

[S2Killinit]

Haha riiiight.

I hope you are being sarcastic, especially after your choice of words “flip of the switch”. It brings back memories.

[garos82]

its really common sense. you need to make the game be able to run on a weaker system. of course there will be concessions

[nirwanda]

They know the concessions even the public that buy the console know that it will run at a much lower rez.
The architecture was designed from the start be be almost the same just a weaker GPU that targets 1080p.
The biggest problems may come later when some Devs may want to pusher harder at lower rez but hopefully then they will have the ml to play with.

[YodaCracker]

The lack of an SSD is what is holding back cross gen games. The Series S has the same SSD as the X. So next gen only games can be built from the ground up with the SSD in mind. The S version will run at a lower resolution, but should not affect development ambitions.

[gangsta_red]

I wonder how PC manages to get by considering it's many lower specs that games have to made and optimized to play for....

[CantThinkOfAUsername]

Unfortunately, developers don't put much thought into PC specs. They'll just make a game for consoles and port it over to PC, then look into whatever hardware is acceptable to run the game. Minimum requirements will go up and everyone below will be left in the dust.

[ZycoFox]

@CantThinkOfAUsername to be fair it's not hard to have decent (not even high end) respectable specs without breaking the bank, and you'd need to upgrade less often if you play at 1080p or something instead of 4k.

[S2Killinit]

Thats why PC games have minimum requirements and the games are made with the lowest common denominator in mind. I thought this was common knowledge.

[gangsta_red]

@S2killinit

Thanks for clearing that up and confirming there should be no issues with developing with the Series S in mind

[VariantAEC]

@gangsta-red PC gets by because it leaves users with outdated HW behind entirely. Just because we can still run the latest games at 1080p30 with or without RT (depending on the game) or can hit 60 (depending on resolution) using GTX 10 series cards now, doesn't mean we will be able to until the end of this console generation.

There are technically plenty of Next-Gen only PC games too, Metro: Exodus is RTX only as are Minecraft's RT worlds. Games like Spider-Man (both of the PC releases) and numerous other PC Titles that feature RT only allow RT features on GPUs with RT HW acceleration. Oddly there are games that don't have this restriction, Forza Horizon 5 runs just fine at 1080p30 with all graphics settings including RT car self-reflection in-game maxed out on my own laptop's GTX 1070. RT is arbitrarily locked out on newer HW and let's be honest if your PC isn't running RT and the consoles are, your PC is last gen. My PC can handle RT and full-on path tracing thanks to Quake II RTX (my PC's performance tops out at 720p30 with max RT settings), but often is not allowed to toggle RT features on regardless. Meanwhile my PC runs FH5 well at 1080p30, it can still taste 30FPS running at 1440p with all settings maxed-out including RT. Even so my PC is largely kept from using raster+RT mixed rendering in games making it "last-gen".

The largest chunk of PC gamers are still using Nvidia 10 series GPUs making my GPU pretty common, but decidedly last-gen and even so game devs have already started leaving GTX users behind.

I won't pretend my laptop's GPU/CPU/RAM/IO can keep pace with newer games, however you seem to think that is how PC devs roll, always thinking of the lowest common denominator...
IT ISN'T AND IT NEVER WAS!

[anast]

This is a creative way to drum up work.

[Deathdeliverer]

This article is ridiculous. So ridiculous that I had to take a peek. It may pain some to hear but yes, Series S is not currently, BUT WILL hold back the Series X and multi platform games. The PS4 has a huge player base. As crazy as this will sound, I think Microsoft was banking on that. Let me explain.
IF the day comes that PS4 is no longer supported and games are built from the ground up for strictly next gen, every game that takes that approach will be held back by series S. It IS the lowest denominator and it’s not by some small or negligible margin as this article would like you to believe. If they made a game with strictly the Series X/PS5 in mind and completely used each systems assists to the fullest, I have no doubt we’d see games that the series S could run, but there’d be budget cuts. I’m talking splinter cell Xbox vs Splintercell PS2 cuts. Redesigned levels, effects missing, and in some ways, a different game. Luckily PS4 was a selling monster and Sony would have to be insane to abandon it. Last gen goes on as long as Sony allows it to. That being said the Series S was created to be an Xbox One X+. The best way to play your last gen games and get your toes into the hamstrung next gen.
The author uses Gotham nights as an example of a game that proves its next gen strength and even explains that the game STARTED as a PS4/Xbox One game but those versions were eventually scrapped and the next gen versions survived. It isn’t a next gen game. It’s built on a last gen foundation.

The Series X was meant to do battle with
the PS5 but there in lies the problem. The series X has that little brother with it so it can only do so much because little bro has to be able to do it too. It can’t have a level that maxes out its resources because if it did, lil bro would have to have a different version, a different experience.
PS5 doesn’t have that little brother. It’s got a twin brother with a different hairstyle. That is why I believe the REAL difference maker will be in exclusives this gen. No matter how much power series X has, it won’t be seen fully per se. Sure it can have higher grade textures and burn resources on more effects or foliage so it’ll have the prettier version than it’s little brother. But it’ll never have a game made for IT because it’s little brother is forced to tag along.

[ufo8mycat]

"That is why I believe the REAL difference maker will be in exclusives this gen. No matter how much power series X has"

This will only be true if Sony stop making their exclusives cross-gen, like Horizon FW and God Of War Ragnarok. Even though both these games looks great, you can tell both these games are cross gen.

[Crows90]

How can you tell exactly?
They both look better than anything else out there? How exactly can you tell that they are cross gen?

[chronoforce]

The Matrix Awakens demo can run on a Series S. If you had any doubts surely that demo cleared it up. We have entered a period where game design is far behind the technology.

[darkrider]

Run? Epic wasn't able to make it run. Only with the help of coalition and even so it runs like crap at sub HD rez. Like that even the one x and the pro would run. Hell even the ps4 if drop the rez to 480p..

[shinoff2183]

Funny you point at ps4 but if im not mistaken xbox one was the weaker of the consoles. As far as i know games are still coming out for that console

[aaronaton]

So the developers must be lying then, thanks god for VG247 for debunking this 'fake' news.

[BrainSyphoned]

I would rather peel a bag of potatoes than play a game on the S.

[ChiefofLoliPolice]

Make some waffle fries?

[shinoff2183]

Idk how series s really is but damn

[TravsVoid]

I don't know, I'm playing Modern Warfare 2 at 120fps on Series S and have no problems. I played it on PS5 during the Beta and other than resolution I don't see any difference.

[sagapo]

If series S (and last gen to a certain point) is holding back current gen, it’s because dev’s or their publicers don’t want to invest time (and/or money) to optimize their game for each platform, It’s just that simple.

[shinoff2183]

But they shouldnt be forced to. From what it seems to release on xbox they are forced to. I dont know why ms thought it was a good idea to do that. Probably trying some kind of angle to sly on sony. Sony did it right though. Disk drive edition. Digital edition. No other difference.

[anubusgold]

These developers are trash people with 1600 dollar graphics cards cant get a locked 60fps they need to shut their mouths and stop being lazy.

[sagapo]

@shinoff: Sony may did it right with PS5 but for the moment PS4 is holding back PS5, which won’t last forever obviously. But that’s not my point. It’s about pushing the power on each individual system and that’s where it goes wrong. If dev’s can do that for PC games (with ton’s of possible setups), would it be so hard to optimize for 2 systems?

[FPS_D3TH]

This article is a perfect example of cope

[XBManiac]

It is the RAM, stupid!

[anubusgold]

No its not games still run fine with 8 gigs of ram you just may have to turn down details some only because it may cause some stutter when it hits the ram limit.

[darkrider]

Payed opinion. The reality is becoming easy to see. Can't run games at locked 1080 much less 1440 like Microsoft try to sell and lied... It's not holding back... Even games made by Microsoft can't reach it... It's a cheap console, that's the only plus. Good for casual and kids that don't care about having the best experience. But next Gen it isn't.

It's funny that before the specs were revealed, many, many were saying that the ps5 wasn't next gen. Because of being 8 teraflops... Barely more powerful then the one x... But now something with 4 teraflops, less ram, much less bandwidth and slow is next Gen.

We already have news about the ps5 and series x reaching their max capabilities, being outdated spec wise, but the series S is next Gen... Maybe if we were in 2017...

[ApocalypseShadow]

Thank you. Someone said it. After all the nonsense spewed about PS5 before launch and then the truth was revealed to shut gamers mouths, barely anything at all has been said about Series S that's less than the PS5 rumors.

Makes you wonder where all the nonsense was coming from to try and sabotage PS5 release. As for the games, we know which company is bringing it as usual. As the other can't even keep their subscription filled with first party titles.

[darkrider]

Exactly. Some forgot that. The opinions about how weak was the ps5... Suddenly something much, much much weaker is next Gen... Of course there is a huge payed campaign to hide the reality.

Don't take me wrong, it's nice being able to play just paying 250 or 269, but next gen gaming.... Nope. It was smart move from Microsoft to increase sales and hide the reality.

Now playing at 720p, 900p, 30 frames its not that bad. A gen ago gamers were killing each other because one version run at 900p and another at 1080p. News with 200, 300 comments.

[ApocalypseShadow]

What's funny is that an article has already been pushed through from Windows central to support Series S. How timely.

[darkrider]

It was a big payed campaign from Microsoft. Also you tubers were making videos saying the exact thing. The same ones that told the ps5 was weak and barely next Gen over and over

[Lightning77]

"Payed opinion."

A whole lot of wrong in your comment as to be expected.

"Can't run games at locked 1080 much less 1440 like Microsoft try to sell and lied... It's not holding back... Even games made by Microsoft can't reach it... "

Except that it does. There's only a handful of games that don't but the majority do and all Xbox only games do. Especially Xbox games I dunno where you got that from. You made that up.

"It's funny that before the specs were revealed, many, many were saying that the ps5 wasn't next gen. Because of being 8 teraflops... Barely more powerful then the one x..."

PS5 wasnt next gen? Link to those who said it wasn't? I don't recall that at all another thing you completely made up Btw PS5 isn't 8 TF it's 10 TF.

PS5 and X haven't reached its max capabilities with last gen DNA all over it still.

[darkrider]

I know it isn't 8 teraflops, but for some time the rumors were it was. And no. The s doesn't have many locked 1440p games. What it it got are many 1080p dynamic rez games. But in tons of reviews that is put under the rug. Because is a very affordable console. The price is always used to hype the console without telling the other side of the coin. It's runs barely better then the upgrades.... Let's not make a comparison with the one x, because...

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

It isn’t “ the lowest common denominator”?

Then what is?

[darthv72]

steamdeck...? I dont know if Steam has any say in games released through their service but if a game can play on the steamdeck, it can play on Series S.

[Nyxus]

Is there a requirement for the publisher to make the game run on Steamdeck as there is for Series S?

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

Steamdeck is no where near the established platform as Xbox.

[Elda]

When it comes to sharp & clear visuals when playing AAA games it's a "hold back", the very reason I traded my Series S for a Series X.

[TravsVoid]

No problem for me on my 1080p gaming monitor. But some games like Dirt 5 at 120fps does look like 240p.

[Elda]

For me I'm over playing AAA video games at 1080p on a 4k display,it looks blurry to me. I don't even mind 1440p but 1080p is a no unless it's a game like Dead Cells.

[TravsVoid]

I do like 4K but I prefer the smoothness that 120fps brings in the games I play.

[gangsta_red]

We're two, almost three years into this new gen and we haven't had anything next gen or any game that could only be done next gen and was supposedly held back by the Series S.

The most anticipated game GoW, which people are already hailing as the best game ever is cross gen, Elden Ring another GOTY contender is on PS4 and Xbox One, where are all these games that could have reached a higher potential if not for the S?

[TravsVoid]

Most new features require CPU power and the Series S is definitely not far from the Xbox Series X and PS5 in that regard.

[S2Killinit]

You are missing the point arent you? The reality is that MS will have to accomodate not just last gen xbox ones, but also the series S.

[gangsta_red]

You don't seem to actually know the reality because MS isn't accommodating for the Xbox One, both Redfall and Starfield will only be for the Series S and X.

So what point am I missing?

[S2Killinit]

Are these their only exclusives this generation?

[gangsta_red]

"Are these their only exclusives this generation?"

What? All games moving forward after Halo Infinite will only be for Xbox Series S and X.

So what exactly are you even getting at?

[gold_drake]

is this really the current state of people who like xbox?
damn, the delusions.

[Orchard]

Pretty accurate take. 2013 consoles with their Jaguar cores and mechanical drives are the biggest burden on this gen. That being said, most developers are used to supporting a huge range of HW and working that into their designs and technical decisions by this point.

[Petebloodyonion]

I love the famous theory of Serie S holding the gen when:
- The incredible Unreal engine 5 Matrix demo run with all the same features at the exact same frame rate as the PS5 and XB but with a lower resolution (like advertised)
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

- There's no Serie S developer SKU, the development of the Xbox series game start with Serie X as the default version,
The Series version is created by running the X version thru a conversion app called S mode
(explain by this dev at 8:45)
https://youtu.be/QULb3kWPbH...

- Majors publishers also release their game on PC on day 1 now and the current average built features a weaker CPU compared to the next-gen console and doesn't use NVME drive (remember the major feature of the PS5).

[shinoff2183]

Devs never get the true power out of the console for some time after its been out. That amazing incredible matrix demo can probably be redone right now and be better.

[Stanjara]

Ahh, a daily dose of copium.

[Destiny1080]

third party developers are straight up ignoring it, just look at the recently released call of duty and sonic the hedgehog which run like a hot mess on the s, but the simple little games microsoft are producing will run just fine on the s

[TravsVoid]

Dude stop lying, the Series S has no problem hitting 120fps in multiplayer on Call of Duty.

[YourMommySpoils]

Xbox is holding itself back. Even with current gen.

[jBlakeeper]

Unfortunately, I think cross gen has become a permanent fixture in gaming aside from a few games.

[isarai]

Your arguments are really flimsy. So your first argument is the Gotham Knights dev quote, but this isnt the first dev that has stated this, it's been said several times from different devs. Second, you're saying the XB1/PS4 are the lowest denominator, but more and more games are dropping last gen, and after that what is the lowest denominator...👉㊋ 6; duh!

I think it would be smart for MS to release the "has to run on S" Mandate, otherwise smaller studios may just start opting out of XBS versions altogether, or we'll be seeing more examples like Gotham Knights

[masterfox]

MS Xbox Series P

[anubusgold]

If you have the worlds most powerful gpu the 4090 and you can barley get over 60fps its the games fault not the hardware.

[frostypants]

It absolutely IS the lowest common denominator for current-gen only games.

[JayRyu]

The Series S can run Assassin's Creed Valhalla at 60 frames. I think that developers are not utilizing hardware to its fullest. The developers of Dirt 5 and Digital Foundry both confirmed that it is not difficult to graphics/performance scale on the Series S.

[MEGANE]

Leave it to MS to make a console weaker than the previous generation.

[Godmars290]

Given there's yet t be any certified great exclusive titles that utilize platform hardware, its a moot point.

If the best Xbox can get are multi and former multi plats which have to include Series S hardware that in turn effects how titles perform on other system, meanwhile other system exclusives perform well above said multis - then Series S is effecting development!

[anubusgold]

While sony cries to world governments to block the Activision deal remember this.

[Godmars290]

What does that have to do with anything much less this issue, given Actvision own 3rd party IPs threatened to go exclusive?

[HeliosHex]

I feel like Xbox completely abandoned triple AAA exclusives. Or maybe they just dragging their feet about it. Hopefully next year we get a nice surprise.

[Knightofelemia]

It is holding next gen back if a game is built for the Series X it has to be dummied down to meet the specs of the S. If a game is built on the S it has to have updates to go from a dummied down version to a version that meets the specs of the X. The Series S is nothing more but an XB1 on steroids I'll just stick with my Series X.

[anubusgold]

The S has higher frame rates than some ps5 games very few 120 fps PS5 games.