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Final Fantasy 16 ditched turn-based combat to appeal to younger generations, producer says

From VGC: "Final Fantasy producer Naoki Yoshida has said that the reason Final Fantasy 16 doesn’t feature turn-based combat is so that the game will to appeal to a younger audience.

Speaking in the latest issue of Famitsu, translated for VGC by contributor Robert Sephazon, the developer said that the team had to reassess the audience Final Fantasy was appealing to.

“I’m from a generation that grew up with command and turn-based RPGs,” Yoshida said. “I think I understand how interesting and immersive it can be. On the other hand, for the past decade or so, I’ve seen quite a number of opinions saying ‘I don’t understand the attraction of selecting commands in video games’.

“This opinion is only increasing, particularly with younger audiences who do not typically play RPGs.”"

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GoodGuy09203d ago

It's what it is. Younger generations and monkey brains will always be the priority for business unfortunately lol.

Man I'd love for them to return to turn based on a mainline FF some day just to test it out instead of testing it out on generic low budget games and spinoffs and concluding that action based is better just because of that lol.

Gamingsince1981203d ago (Edited 203d ago )

Final fantasy games have been terrible ever since they went action based, I dont get this need to make every RPG this way.

Eonjay203d ago (Edited 203d ago )

They have had so many variations to their battle systems over the years and I applaud them for not reusing the same thing over and over again. God of War switch things up and quite literally gave New Life into the series

ZeekQuattro203d ago

Its why I prefer DQ to FF. They have action oriented spin offs but the main games remain turn based with the exception being the DQ10 MMO.

Eonjay203d ago

Btw I'm 33 and I prefer Action.
Would love to know ages and preferences of others.

shinoff2183202d ago (Edited 202d ago )

@eonjay

FF battle systems typically had slight variations to them but its been horrible since they went to pure action games. I knew it all along that it was for the younger audience. The attention span just isnt really there for the young casuals hell even some of the young hardcore players..

Dude at work about 23 years old, so I showed him dq11 he was pretty interested in it. So over the next few days he is telling me about where hes at and hes pretty pumped still and enjoying it. A few weeks go by and he dropped it. Ive also seen it while observing my own kids aged18 thru 6.

Also im 38 and prefer turned based.

Adrian_v01202d ago

@shinoff

Got more to do with grinding and the amount of unnecessary stuff that clogs the game world. Never finished witcher 3 because of that and that's an action rpg. Got nothing to do with turn based.

ChiefofLoliPolice202d ago (Edited 202d ago )

To you. Love the new gameplay. Besides there are other turn based games to play out there. I can always play Persona, Octopath Traveler, Dragon Quest.

Although I do understand where turn based lovers are coming from. I guess FF fans don't like how westernized it has become.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 202d ago
jznrpg203d ago

I wish they would do both . I’ve always liked some good action RPGs . But I still loved a well made turn based game . Unfortunately most of turn based game lovers are older and even though we buy a lot of games they don’t see that . I’d buy any of the old turn based games updated for today if they put some love in them like they used to . So many franchises companies could use . Threads of Fate , Legend of Dragoon , FF, Dragon Warrior, Suikoden the list goes on .

Chriswynnetbh203d ago

Could you imagine a Threads of Fate remake?? That would be incredible. It is a shame that SE views turn based games as somehow inferior to action games. FF used to be at the top of the game when it came to turn based and the last few mainline games being not that great on top of the absolutely butchering of FFVII remake makes me question whether they will ever actually go back to their roots.

shinoff2183202d ago

Maybe swap them out this ff action
next turn based
next action.

I could get with that atleast

porkChop203d ago

At the very least I would love a new FF sub-series that featured a modern take on turn-based combat.

neutralgamer1992203d ago

GoodGuy09

They really don't need to do turn based anymore because the technology is there to do everything in real time

Gamingsince1981

With the amount of budget it takes to make a truly AAA Blockbuster title these publishers need and want to maximize their profits. What criteria are you using to say ever since they went real time they're bad because when the publisher is looking at the results and they see millions of copies sold that's all they care about

The days of publishers caring about metacritic or open critic or long gone

The fact of the matter is when it comes to between turn-based and real time real time is always more fun accessible and sells better

But if you do like turn bass good thing is right now there are a lot of options in gaming for everyone to be excited about something to play

shinoff2183203d ago

@neutralgamer1992

Can you explain why the highest selling final fantasy us turn based if its so bad?

Also keep in mind the amount of gamers back then is dwarfed by the amount of people that play games these days.

203d ago
neutralgamer1992203d ago

you guys are missing the point. You both said best selling FF were truned based yet it's a small sample size. look at how many releases were turned based vs how many we have had using real time. I was speaking more from a business POV because that's what interests me. Sorry there is a business geek inside of me that will look at numbers first for some weird reason LOL

shinoff2183

no doubt that more people are playing games now but that's not the whole picture though. For example there is a stat that shows almost half of the market is of female gamers but it's only when you look deeper you realize over 40% of those female gamers play on mobile (aka candy crush etc)

ps360owner09

FF15 was the biggest launch in series history and has sold more than 10 million copies and FF7 remake sold 5 million in under 4 months

SE could have but they also had the right to try something new and grow the fanbase by your same logic don't they?

let me just say this one thing which will no doubt bug a lot of people:

THis is a business for companies. If they can generate extra 500K they are willing to do that. we don't realize that game devs also prefer that because their bonuses are attached to number of copies sold

Pretentious203d ago

As a huge fan of the original Final Fantasies.... I'm tired. I can't fight this fight anymore. Turn-based was better but no one cares. Oh well.

gamer7804202d ago

This ff looks sub par to me anyways. Not a fan of the setting or graphic style.

Adrian_v01202d ago

It's pretty much ff vi setting with modern graphics

Adrian_v01202d ago

Tbh you don't need more than monkey brains for turn based either

ChiefofLoliPolice202d ago

I'm fine without the turn based aspect of it. Like FF7 remake for example I love how you can keep the hack and slash gameplay but you can still have stop time in game and plan out your next move using the ATB system. It's a perfect middle ground.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 202d ago
-Foxtrot203d ago

I don't understand, that's a shitty way to look at it

When you have your old school fans you'll always be relevant, no matter how many years go by and sooner or later gamers from younger generations will pick up on the series, especially gamers who are so involved in the scene that they are always up to date with gaming news.

If you want to chase new, younger fans then do spin off games, and if they don't do well then that's unfortunately an internal problem who haven't done a good job at reaching out to them.

This isn't a dig at FF16 but in general, too many studios are using the main core series to chase the younger crowd and trends where the franchise starts to loose it's core roots, basically turning into a new IP with the franchises name slapped on it

Yakuza Like a Dragon, Persona, Dragon Quest, Octopath Traveler for example have shown that people still like turn based games so I don't get their problem.

luckytrouble203d ago (Edited 203d ago )

The problem with FF specifically is that it is a very western focused series at this point, which means the population that really drives those classic styled game sales, as in Japan, is not a focus. Although there are certainly exceptions, western gaming has by and large become more focused on action styled games over the years, and those of us old enough to fondly remember the years when every RPG was turn based are an increasingly small minority in the modern gaming landscape.

If you're making a western facing RPG today and you want to sell the 10+ million copies SE is surely hoping for with FF16, you would have to be very, very, very sure of your story and characters to even have a chance at making those kinds of numbers in 2022 and beyond using a classic approach to the game design.

Saying that it's basically just a "the younger folks just don't know enough and it's the fault of the companies" issue is seriously ignoring evolving trends and the volume of gamers today that are under the age of 25 and simply missed getting the nostalgia drive of those older.

tl;dr this has strong it's not me it's the kids who are wrong energy.

shinoff2183203d ago

If you make a ff turn based these days maybe it will still sell well. They never really tried.

Its a slap in the face. Ff 16 they can keep it

203d ago
PapaBop203d ago

Sadly in business, money talks, so many IPs have walked that arrogant line where they see their old school fans as a given, so focus on appealing to newer generations and fall flat on their asses.. RE6 comes immediately to mind. I have faith in Yoshi P and applaud his honesty but turn based can still be appealing, I imagine many youngsters absolutely loved Persona 5 and it's stylish turn based combat.

shinoff2183203d ago

Theres not enough turn based coming out to even tell if turn based will sell. Come on square put it back in ff.

Or atleast design it so you can choose

Tacoboto203d ago

I was listening to a podcast where they mentioned a quote similar to this and the hosts pointed out one game you skipped out on - Pokemon. Turn-based, essentially unchanged for two decades in its fundamentals, and it's appreciated by the younger generation while not declining in sales/relevance.

I like what I've seen on the FFXVI trailers but this + no-difficulty-modes makes me agree - the core roots could be gone and we're left with a game that feels designed-by-committee.

luckytrouble203d ago (Edited 203d ago )

Pokemon is an anomaly, not a standard. Anyone basing their game design decisions around that unique juggernaut is making a mistake. That's the problem with almost every example people bring up for this argument though. Persona 5? Oozing with unique style. Replication either means a lesser clone or a game that just misses the mark altogether. Yakuza 7? Heavily driven by the storytelling and character writing that defines the series, and greatly supported by the foundation of what came before it. Dragon Quest? Has always been far and away more popular in Japan and is not a good template for making a game trying to get western sales. Octopath Traveler? Probably the most niche of the popular JRPGs of the past five or six years, and like Persona is more driven by its style than its gameplay.

It would be nice if people could actually point out some kind of relevant trend in these discussions and not just point out hyper specific popular examples.

shinoff2183203d ago (Edited 203d ago )

@luckytrouble

What about dragon quest 11. Far as i know it sold pretty damn good and its turn based. It can still be done. Final fantasy would still sell well being turn based. I cant be the only one out there that damn near almost didnt play ff15 until the royal edition was on sale for 15 dollars. If it was turn based and more ff like it would of been day one for me. dq11 was day one and it was great. Way better then any ff ive played since 9

I just noticed what you said about dq. Im pretty sure dq11 nailed sales in the west outside of japan. People want turn based to

VenomCarnage89202d ago

Pokemon literally goes out of it's way for turn based fighting to actually make sense, it's baked into the story itself and it's the only game I've ever seen to do so.
I mean for real, how would Pokemon transition to action rpg in the first place? You're a person telling your Pokemon what to do, it wouldn't work. We're absolutely talking about the exception and not the norm with that one

Gardenia202d ago (Edited 202d ago )

It's true but Final Fantasy's problem isn't only the turned based system. Everything about single player Final Fantasy is mediocre for over 20 years now. Except for FFXII, that one still felt like a Final Fantasy game. To me FFXVI looks more like a Devil May Cry set in the middle ages than a Final Fantasy game.

I really enjoyed Dragon Quest XI. It's proof that you can combine modern and classic and have a great game.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 202d ago
Terry_B203d ago (Edited 203d ago )

yeah..I'll just ditch FFXVI in favour of any good turn based j-rpg's releasing as well. FF, the main series kinda sucks since FF13 anyway.

Eonjay203d ago

Don't respond to sensationalist headlines. Nothing was ditched. Careful thought went into the decision. In addition he stated FF16 has sales expectations from Square. The goal was to make a good game that could also sale. Square more than anyone else has done the research and carried out the opinion polls that would provide insight into what people actually want and will act in a way that gives them an opportunity to be both profitable and relevant.

Pretentious203d ago

FF10 was the last masterpiece. FF12 was decent. FF13 was the beginning of the end.

343_Guilty_Spark202d ago

FF13 was turn based. I loved the ability Paradigm Shift as well.

FF15 was the end.

gamer7804202d ago

I liked the ff13 series over 15 by far. And looks like 16 will follow 15s downward spiral

LordoftheCritics203d ago (Edited 203d ago )

Im not young exactly but I'm glad its not turn based.

SE is blaming the age group instead of the reality in the numbers. Real time is wayyyyy more popular than turn based.

Eonjay203d ago

Square isn't blaming them. The article is seeking to create tension amongst age groups for clicks but Square here speaks in terms of researched findings. The producer is stating the facts as they are.

LordoftheCritics203d ago (Edited 203d ago )

Producer is stating his opinion not just facts.

The fact of the matter is real time action has been dominating the game space for a long time for good reason.

From regular GOTY for the past decade and more to all best selling titles to even the most popular titles.

Theres so much to real time, in terms of immersion, immediacy, reflex, etc other aspects of the gameplay systems that turn based systems dont allow. Turn based has its own fun for sure but its missing too many of the great aspects of what makes real time action that good.

For eg. Elden Ring as a turn based would be a completely different experience and I don't think it would feel as gratifying as real time when your personal finely tuned observation, reflex etc is not coming into use.

And again the Dragon Age series or Elder Scrolls or even non rpg games. Real time is real time. Analyze it and it will make sense.

So it may not just be the producers past alone, it could be the devs who want real time, the investors, the other team members, the gamers statistics, the reality of games today, the potential of real time action gameplay in FF games etc etc etc

FinalFantasyFanatic202d ago

To be fair, Final Fantasy can just sell on brand name alone, we lost alot of staples from the series like mini games and towns, ect... Plus the Stories and characterization just took a nose dive after 10.

I don't believe it would matter if it's action or turn-based, it would probably sell the same.

Elda203d ago

I'm old school..Gen X & I love action jrpgs. I prefer action battle systems over turned-based when it comes to jrpgs. The last turned-based battle system from Final Fantasy I enjoyed was FFXIII though I enjoyed the turn base jrpgs Persona 5 & Dragon Quest XI. I enjoyed the battle system in FFXV including games like Scarlet Nexus,Persona 5 Scramble & Tale Of Arise. FFXVI battle system looks like it's going to be quite fun.

luckytrouble203d ago

Haters out in force with the immediate disagrees. This is basically my viewpoint as well. The original KH introduced me to action RPGs at a young age where I was also enjoying games like Legend of Dragoon and FFIX, and these days I can easily enjoy both as long as they're done well, with a definite lean towards action because it just often feels more immediately engaging. FFXVI is shaping up to have a very good battle system, and I'm game for it.

Elda203d ago

Absolutely! Let the (stuck in a rut) haters hate. I agree we can have both battle systems when done right such as turned jrpg base games like DQ & Persona & we can have the action jrpg games like the latest Tales,Star Oceans,the FF Remakes including the Souls/Borne games. The big wigs at S-E that run the FF division have evolved the battle systems to action & if one doesn't like it don't buy it..plain & simple. I can't wait to play FFXVI!!

PapaBop203d ago

Are Gen X now considered old school? *beep* I'm getting old.

Elda203d ago (Edited 203d ago )

Folks that were kids in the 70's playing video games throughout the late 70's up until now are old school brought up by parents that are old school. That's about 45+ years ago,if you were born at the start of Gen X that's 57 years ago,more than half a century.