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Forza Motorsport: Is 4K 60fps + Ray Tracing Really Possible on Series X?

Digital Foundry : Forza Motorsport was revealed in two trailers this week, so Alex Battaglia took a fine-tooth comb to the provided footage to see what he could learn. How could Turn 10 achieve 4K 60fps with ray tracing on PC and Series X - and what else has changed since Forza Motorsport 7?

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digitalfoundry.net
Orchard1051d ago (Edited 1051d ago )

Did they say this was going to be 4k60 w/ RT? I’d kinda assumed it would be 60 w/ RT but sub 4K with upscaling techniques.

porkChop1051d ago

The PC demo was 4K60 with RT, and Turn 10 told Digital Foundry that the graphics on Series X would be very similar. So it's possible but we'll have to wait and see.

ABizzel11050d ago (Edited 1050d ago )

It's more than likely Dynamic 4K down to 1440p maybe lower. The benefit Turn 10 has is more time, experience, and being first-party with co-dev / tools with Playground in regards to the comparison I'm going to make.

AMD's RX 6000 series GPUs while capable of RT aren't optimized for it, and the consoles are less optimized than the desktop cards for RT. Dirt 5 for example is a track racer like Forza and is Dynamic 4K@60fps and drops down to 1440p on Series X in Image Quality mode, which would be most comparable to what Forza is aiming for.

By comparison Dirt 5 runs on PC hardware like the RX 6700XT (technically the most comparable to SX in overall performance 6600XT as well) at 4K@50 - 60. And when you turn on RT shadows you lose an additional 25% - 30% performance from RT shadows alone (not reflections shadows)...... so yeah Dynamic 4K is almost 99% guaranteed at this point for Forza.

This also brings up the question of what will the Series S version be running at. The Dirt 5 comparison is another good one where it targets Dynamic 1440p but is often 1080p or lower. So will be have a Dynamic 1440p that drops to 900p or even 720p.

Destiny10801050d ago

they showed the Pc version and then claimed it was series x footage

then they tried to claim multiplats as exclusive by forcing developers, to not display PS5 logos at the end of the trailers

Gamer751050d ago (Edited 1050d ago )

When multiplats are shown in a PS event they usually don't display the logos of the other consoles so why are you bothered about it now ?

MrNinosan1050d ago

The difference is that PS Event doesn't fill the event with Console Exclusive logos before every title.

porkChop1050d ago

No they never claimed it was Series X footage. People assumed it was, myself included. I think they should have said upfront that it was PC, but they didn't lie.

ABizzel11050d ago (Edited 1050d ago )

They didn't say it, but they HEAVILY alluded to it right on the blog post, which was why I pointed out almost a week ago that people who were there, said no one at Turn 10 were confirming that the game was running on Series X which made people think it was PC at worse devkits still. And based on the other shorter trailer the PCs they're using are more than likely RTX GPUs considering that trailer was all 4K@60fps with RT and GI and simply put AMDs 6000 series would have a hard time with that.

https://forza.net/news/forz...

porkChop1050d ago

Going forward they really just need to say "this is running on Series X", "this is running on PC", "this is a cutscene", "this is a CG trailer", etc.

In FM the GI is only present in replays. That's why there was no GI in the tech demo, only RT.

dumahim1050d ago

Yep. They were so unclear on this, Turn 10 themselves got it wrong.

https://forza.net/news/forz...

"Editor’s Note: We incorrectly stated that the Forza Motorsport demo was captured in-game on Xbox Series X. The demo was captured in-game on PC"

I was very sure it was running on PC, but tried to check and I ran into some article/interview that didn't say either way, but heavily implied in was on Xbox, then saw the article above. Now I can't find that other article and the Forza.net article had been updated.

EvertonFC1050d ago

"we incorrectly stated" yeah right

rob-GP1050d ago

None of the three companies show logos for other platforms at their events. Nintendo, Sony or MS. However, the developer or publisher usually tweets or posts a multi-platform trailer within minutes of it being shown, to clarify which platforms it's actually coming to.

The 'naughty' thing they did this year is place a 48-hour embargo on news that the Persona games and the new KT game were also coming to other platforms - meaning sites and the publisher couldn't officially say they're coming to Steam and PlayStation until Tuesday.

However, people read the press releases and announced it without reading the date, refusing to pull the articles even when the PR told them to do so. But, had they listened to the embargo request, MS had basically set a 48-hour embargo which was probably part of the terms of their inclusion in Game Pass - which is pretty shady tbh.

I personally don't like the whole "console launch exclusive" as that's clearly 'timed' but Xbox doesn't say how long for. At least when Sony claims timed exclusivity, they usually have a rough period at the end of the trailer so you know how long it lasts for.

MrChow6661050d ago

I dont remember seeing Xbox logos in Playstation shows...so?

iplay1up21050d ago

You didn't see them, and all of the N4G articles after the show about RE4 read Resident Evil 4 remake is coming to PS5. No mention of Xbox.

ABizzel11050d ago

They're never there, he was trying to make a point, but went over the wrong issue. The issue was putting NDAs on games to where some of the publishers weren't allowed to acknowledge the games were 3rd party. I don't EVER remember this being done in the industry or at these events.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 1050d ago
Flawlessmic1050d ago (Edited 1050d ago )

60 frames with RT seems unrealistic was surpised when they said it, it makes sense that it was running on a pc, some nice deception there though.

Anyway really hope its 4k 60 on my xsx however a dynamic resolution is a lot more likely.

DarXyde1050d ago

Chances are, we'll see some implementation of FSR to compensate. That's not at all a bad thing and I suspect it can come pretty close to hitting these goals. I think Series X can manage that—full ray tracing however, I don't know.

Flawlessmic1050d ago (Edited 1050d ago )

Yea curious to hear more details about how it will run on xsx, i think dynamic resolution or fsr seems to be the logical thing to do to get ray tracing working at 60 fps.

Super excited for it though, iv played the shit out of gt7 so need my next sim racer fix hahaha.

Hope we get it early next year rather than later.

InUrFoxHole1050d ago

Day 1 series x. Looks a lot better than GT though

Om4ever1050d ago

Forza 7 already looked better... The gap is now huge. But GT7 stays fun

iplay1up21050d ago

It does look better than GT7, because of in game Raytracing. The reflections and the way lightning is used makes a difference.

ABizzel11050d ago (Edited 1050d ago )

Environmental detail and of course car damage look much better in Forza (especially foliage and rock maps).
Reflections will look better as well as long as they don't go below quarter resolution, although GTs solution is shocking good for non-RT reflections. Actual cars and racing are a lot closer than expected considering GT7 is a PS4 Pro game upscaled to PS5, and Forza is a Series X and PC game ported down to Series S.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Performance is going to be where Turn 10 needs to nail it and it should be consistent especially if they use Dynamic Resolution scaling as I expect it to. Forza is likely aiming for Dynamic 4K@60fps on Series X, especially on rainy maps with puddles and RT where performance in ALL RACING GAMES is tested. I'm also concerned the Series S is going to be tested to its max with this game.

Deathdeliverer1050d ago

Say what you want, this was misleading as hell and like others on here I feel like it was intentional. It’s one of those “accidents” that happen far too often when it’s a big first party title. Never happens on smaller titles. Not a lot of people dig into games and info like us people in forums like this. We are the vast minority. Most people see what was shown and that’s all they know until launch. You could watch it on your series X with the press of a button. It was easily attainable info. They know that most people will NOT find out the error. The message has been delivered and word of mouth begins. It really is dirty.
As far as some people in here talking about Microsoft claiming exclusives that weren’t… They do that every time too. The thing they DON’T do often, but they have done before is lock devs out of talking about ANY other versions until 48 hours pass by. Why do this? Ties directly into my first point. Misinformation. They made the info easily accessible which is good business. But they have misinformation during said video and they know IF anyone is going to look into a game shown during the show it’ll be immediately after watching.
On the PlayStation and Nintendo side you can find out if a game is coming out on other systems immediately.

Only caveat to this with every company is if it’s a full on timed exclusive (6 months/year/ whatever). Then there’s no mention. Paying for faked exclusivity though? Kinda funny. Misinformation wins presidencies, causes riots, raids government agencies, starts wars, and gets sales.

Lightning771050d ago (Edited 1050d ago )

"Say what you want, this was misleading as hell and like others on here I feel like it was intentional. It’s one of those “accidents” that happen far too often when it’s a big first party title."

Here we go. It's one's of those cases where people like you will campaign that it'll be fake footage and Series X won't be 4K 60 RT. Only to launch at 4K 60 RT then once again for the millionth time egg is on face then find something else to complain about. It's rinse and repeat behavior. It won't do X, Y, Z! Only to do X, Y, Z. They even said the specs represented in the game were similar to Series X. Maybe you could be on to something, however Turn 10 is one of those developers that achieve exactly what they set out for the game.

ABizzel11050d ago

I beg to differ. People are mad this is coming out, and trying to discredit this being an issue when it is. I've said this before YEARS AGO, I prefer Forza over GT simply because I don't get as much enjoyment out of racing games anymore and IMO Forza is more accessible than GT to simply pick up and play.

That being said Turn 10 does not have this flawless image. They were called out in 2013 for doing a similar bait and switch with Forza 5 showing it running at much higher settings, more foliage, higher-quality assets, and 3D audience models than when it launched all of that was noticeably reduced and 3D models dropped to 2D although more 2D were added as a result.

https://www.cinemablend.com...

"Can you tell? I'll give you a hint: The E3 build is the one with additional light passes, higher refraction, deeper shadow grades and per-object self-shadowing."

So we're not going to act like this hasn't been an issue before with them.

I'm assuming the game is going to be Dynamic 4K@60fps, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that as the game looks good. However, we should not be seeing the PC version likely Maxed out being falsely represented as the SX.

Deathdeliverer1050d ago

Lightning I’m not saying there will be a night and day difference. I’m sure there it will look excellent on Series X the same way Horizon did. Thing is this is NOT representative of the Series X performance but it was advertised as such. It’s not really something can be disputed, it’s a fact. I am just going deeper into it as I feel it’s intentional because it’s too convenient. Like the E3 where all the Xbox first party games had the PCs hidden but once they got discovered by the inquisitive it changed to “representative to the Xbox experience”. Look I get every system day one, something that sucks sucks. Period. On PlayStation people were hype about that launch mediocre hack and slash and I saw that repetitive mess from a mile away and called it. Horizon is my favorite arcade racer. Wouldn’t miss it. I’m a gamer that loves games, not worried about the system. If poop is in the air though…. I’m going to find and identify it.

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100°

Forza Motorsport PC modded: extra detail and improved ray tracing are there for the taking | DF

Extra detail, improved RT reflections and RT global illumination can be modded into Forza Motorsport PC. Here's how.

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eurogamer.net
VariantAEC284d ago

What a joke... wonder how long until FM23 with RTGI is compared with GT7 on PS4, though? Also which game will look better?

90°

Forza Motorsport To Remove Car Upgrade Progression Limit

A new update for Forza Motorsport has been announced that will remove the car upgrade progression limit. It will come out next month.

BurritoWarrior450d ago

Beyond repair at this point the people have made up their minds on this game already. You had one chance and ya blew it

execution17450d ago

Should've took what they did with 4s progression and improved on it

80°

Best Racing Game of 2023

VGChartz's Craig S: "2023 was something of a strange and surprising year for the racing genre, at least when it came to our Nominees for Best Racing Game of 2023. There were unexpected changes to long-established series, fruitful reunions, and highly unexpected returns. The WRC license went to EA and subsidiary Codemasters for the first time in over 20 years, resulting in one of the most acclaimed WRC titles in years; the mainline Forza Motorsport series made its long-awaited return after a gap of six years; F-Zero went one further by getting a new entry almost 19 years(!) after the last one; and Hot Wheels Unleashed 2 built upon the solid foundation of the first title to create a new series that's not to be slept on."

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vgchartz.com