Is Returnal fair as a Triple-A experience?

Returnal is $70 / Triple-A priced game. Given the game's roguelike design principles and focus on a play style that is - up to now - anything but 'AAA' has the reality of Returnal been fairly communicated to players?

In this episode Stace Harman and John Robertson delve into Returnal design, how it has been communicated to players and what it means for a Triple-A space that has not played host to anything like quite it before now.

[Orchard]

I think we already have the answer - yes, because people are buying it and the vast majority are not complaining about an unfair deal.

[Knushwood Butt]

What is AAA play style exactly?!

I have 48 hours in this and still coming back for more punishment.

[NeoGamer232]

Yes, AAA is a subjective thing to gamers.

Some believe it is the cost to develop, others believe it is the quality of the end product.

I subscribe to AAA being the quality of the end product. To me, whether a game was $100,000 to create or $200,000,000 to create, it is AAA if it was a very high quality of product. Meaning, the game time is the right length, the graphics are really good for the game, the sound is really good, the gameplay is addictive and fun, the controls are spot on, the story is great, and the whole game feels like a very good and cohesive experience.

[jjb1981]

Personally, I value several games on a per dollar basis. So if I spend 30 hours on a $60 game, I ask myself if it was worth the $2 an hour. Whatever the exchange may be, I base my value on that. There have been games where I don't even consider that and that's where the true value lies.

[stupidusername]

That’s a interesting take. I really enjoy Returnal but I start to question if it was worth the money when I consider what each hour so far costs.
Where I live Returnal (basic edition) costs 100$, and I’ve spent 10 hours so far. 10$ every hour is a lot for a game.

[Taero]

And have you completed it in 10 hours? It took me approximately 30 to get the final ending so a little over $3/hour seems fine. If I were a completionist who wanted all of the items etc. I could probably double that.

[stupidusername]

@Taero
No, I'm not that good at it. I'm still playing it, so the ratio is only going to get better. I don't regret buying the game, but the price is steep. Though one could argue that the price is fair considering that games haven't really increased their price in forever.

[Darkborn]

That's a dumb way to put it in my opinion. Your buying an experience. How easy is it to spend $20-30 minimum for watching a movie at a theater for 2 hours? Was that worth $15 an hour? Plus that was a one time experience and a game can be replayed. Go to a theme park and easily exceed $70 for a few hours of enjoyment. It's not a 1:1 for enjoyment. Entertainment is based on the fun factor. Was it fun? Did you enjoy yourself? Those are the questions that matter.

[jjb1981]

I guess it's dumb if you make that comparison with other activities.. I never once brought up movies or theme parks. Those moments are spent with family and are about the time we spend together. I don't make a monetary association when going out with my family. Video games are my hobby so I make that connection constantly. There are certain franchises that I will buy without any regard for the day-one price tag. For most other games, even though I know I can have fun, I ask myself if it's worth the price tag for what I will get out of it. My time is limited. $2.50 an hour for TLoU 2 is better than $0.40 an hour for Assassin's Creed Valhalla.

[Darkborn]

Still doesn't make sense. Some games are made with much more quality than others. With your own statement you pretty much said that. Famlly time is quality just like some games are made better than others. You can fully enjoy a game that's shorter and costs the same price as a much larger game such as assassins creed like you said and not have as much fun of a time. Just becuase assassins creed takes 60+ hours to complete but it's a complete boring grind, doesn't make it a better purchase than a 10 hour game that is insanely fun and you think about for years after.

[Yui_Suzumiya]

I always wonder where people live that they spend $20 to $30 on a movie ticket. Most I ever spent was $10 and that was a 3D Imax movie. Most theaters I know are $4 to $7 for a ticket.

[jjb1981]

My first comment is how I would evaluate a single game. My second comment was how I would compare the value of two games to each other. Don't think to hard.

[franwex]

I used to do it like that when I was a teenager, but even then I didn’t think it was a fair measure.

It’s still an interesting way of looking at things, but it doesn’t tell the whole picture.

A shorter expensive game can be a great experience compared to a longer game that you get on sale.

[Abear21]

It under promised and over delivered. With all the remasters and sequels these days how can anyone complain when something new and unexpected comes along and blows everyone away. Worth it?
Just how can anyone with a PS5 not buy this game?

[Lighter9]

Riiiiight. I don't have a PS5 still, and I want this game.

[jukins]

Perfect explanation. Theres something special about this. Ive been on biome 3 for 2 weeks. And i keep coming back.

[VersusDMC]

These arguments will never come up when the Skyward Sword remaster comes out at 60...didn't even come up with New Pokemon Snap being 60 as well. It's like every week with Returnal now.

[Vegamyster]

There has been plenty of articles for years talking about Nintendo’s pricing for games, wether it’s about older games being more expensive or there port practices lol. It’s all about clicks, no different than all articles talking about how the 3DS and Switch would all be failures before they came out etc.

[waverider]

Its a sony game and this is the new strategy to try and downplay and get clicks...

[RaiderNation]

Nintendo can kick rocks! The Switch is my last Nintendo system. I bought it at launch and It had a great 1st year with titles like Breath of the Wild, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Splatoon 2, Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Arms, Fast RMX, Mario Odyssey, etc. And ever since then, the output has gotten progressively worse each year. I haven't played mine since Luigi's Mansion 3 in 2019. Since then it's done nothing but collect dust. The offerings from Nintendo since then have either been games that do not appeal to me (Animal Crossing, Pokémon, etc) or they are lackluster, overpriced remasters and Wii/Wii U ports. I think Nintendo's output overall since that first launch year has been incredibly sub-standard.

[randomvoice]

Yes the game is absolutely amazing in my opinion. Yeah I'd love a single time save that gets deleted once it is loaded however I feel the game is just pure fun to play. The mechanics are just rock solid and I love how fluid the gameplay is.

[Atticus_finch]

It's really simple. If you have a ps5 and you like shooters, you must play this games. Don't want to pay full price then wait for black Friday.
I only wish that I had more time to play it.

[Chevalier]

Same! I'm only on the 2nd biome so far.

[DarXyde]

My thoughts on this comes down to a simple decision tree. Ask yourself the following:

1. Do you want this game? If no, do not buy. If yes, proceed to question 2.

2. Are you okay with paying USD 70 for it? If no, wait. If yes, pay USD 70.

That's it.

This is how it has always been. If you are okay with the price, get it at that price. If not, just hang on and it'll come down. Eventually, it always does (unless you're Nintendo). It really depends on how soon you want it and whether you feel okay with the asking price. It's literally bargaining: "I want $70 for it. No? Okay, how about $60? $40? $20, final offer." Eventually, it comes down.

On the other hand, I tend to pay full price when I want to show full support for a product. Horizon? God of War? Absolutely. Many other games? I'll wait, as if to say "I support this project, but it isn't getting a full endorsement from me."

At the end of the day, the price is whatever you're willing to pay.

[S2Killinit]

Umm the game is fun. Need I say more?

[MadLad]

I own a lot of "fun" games that didn't ask retail price, and priced their game accordingly to its development cost.
Let alone ask for more than what games have retailed for prior.

[S2Killinit]

And Ive owned a lot of games that asked for full price and were not fun, “high development cost” and all. Your point?

And how do you know the development cost of Returnal? It certainly looks great, better than anything we’ve had so far on xbox thats for sure.

[MadLad]

We're not talking about Xbox. We're talking about Returnal. MS hasn't yet released a $70 game.

Let's take a last gen game in Last of Us 2.
Which game do you think took a whole hell of a lot more money to produce and bring to market? Which one released at a higher retail cost?

Now justify the price hike for a game that would typically retail for $30, maybe 40, on PC, based on the games you see coming to the platform.

I'm not knocking Housemarque. I've enjoyed a lot of their games over the years; but if this price hike is due to "development costs", I call BS in this case.

[S2Killinit]

But why though? I want to talk about xbox. Dont tell me you can only dish it out. Lets talk about how with xbox you are actually paying more money, unless you limit yourself to what is available on game pass.

And the answer to aaalll of your worries about Returnal can be simplified in what defines any modern economic system. Its called SUPPLY AND DEMAND. You dont like? Great! Dont buy it. And while you do that, leave the rest of us alone so we can enjoy our games.

[FlavorLav01]

My 46 hours to beat it say it was worth it. And somehow I’m still going back for runs to work toward the platinum. It’s that fun! Frustrating but fair. Keep it coming Sony.

[Sol4ris]

By the time PS5 will have enough stock supplies so I can buy it, Returnal would have joined PS+ and by that time the price is a moot point for me.

[Harryvok]

It's my current GOTY. Loved it.

[IRetrouk]

Can't get enough to be honest, working towards the plat, really fun game

[KillBill]

'Returnal' 4K Image is Upscaled from 1080p and getting lauded as a Triple-A experience. 'Bio Mutant' 4K Image is Upscaled from 1080p and being hated because it can't reach 4K native via BC on PS5. What am I missing here?

[Sol4ris]

@KillBill

One game is exclusive(has to be fantastic), the other one is multiplatform(bad game).
It really is that simple :).

[Chevalier]

The gameplay? Have you actually tried the game? It's addictive and the controls are tight and there's lots of replay value. Each run is different

[KillBill]

You are missing the point being made. We have nothing showing that 'Bio Mutant' is any less in any department. Point being made is that one game is specifically being called out for not having Native 4K while currently only being BC to PS5. While the other being praised across the board does not even have the BC issues and is exclusively next gen and can't hit Native 4K but not having any call out for not being Native 4K.

[Chevalier]

I get what you're saying, but, Returnal looks fantastic however it's sliced. Personally I don't care if it's true 4k. I'd rather have an amazing and fun game at lower resolution than look amazing in 4k and not be fun. Graphics aren't everything, but, what do I know I grew up with Atari, Colecovision and 8 bit Nintendo. If graphics were the only thing I worried about I'd miss countless indies and smaller releases. I still play Castlevania collection and Symphony of the Nights too. This whole generation so far has been far too obsessed with graphics.

Honestly if Biomutent looked better on PC (which I have one) or Series X (will get one when the games aren't trash - Still rocking my One S), but, the PS5 had amazing Dual Sense implementation or VR I would stick with lower resolution on PS5. The use of the Dual Sense on the PS5 for Returnal has increased my enjoyment and there is no equivalent controller. Not even close. I keep seeing people say the controller isn't a huge deal. Uhh..... yeah if implemented well like this it's the definition of a game changer. If reviews tell me the Dual Sense was really well implemented I'll be going PS5 with lower resolution going forward. Graphics are going to get better throughout this generation as developers get used to what's available to them.

[kneon]

I just updated UE yesterday, how about I whip you up a game of Pong at 4K, That's triple AAA right? How about if I make it 8K, is that AAAA?

[KillBill]

You are missing the point. Both Returnal and Biomutant are getting rave reviews for what they offer. While Returnal a current gen game is given a pass for 1080p upscaled (not native 4K) Biomutant a last gen game is being raked over the coals because of BC limitations with PS5 it can't do native 4K. Biomutant will likely hit native 4K when the PS5 version is available but until then people are tearing it up because they say 1080p is ridiculous, yet PS5 is the limiting factor for the 1080p as it was for Returnal which is a current gen game even.

[philm87]

Triple A is about the quality, it has nothing to do with the gameplay style. No argument over Demon's Souls was there (I know not technically a rouguelike)?

[jdoe]

yes it is

[MadLad]

I'm not knocking the game in any way. It's obviously quality, and I've enjoyed a lot of Housemarque's releases in the past; but if the whole point of that price hike is to cover supposed higher development costs, it looks bad when you apply it to a game, made by a smaller team, using minimal voice acting, and not having a giant marketing budget behind it.

Not long ago many on this site were going at Greedfall for being $60 for not being "AAA"

Now we have a that by no means cost what the typical "AAA" tends to, yet it's being used as one of the flagships of the price hike, and now we see many on here trying to justify it.

It's highly hypocritical.

[chilopirrin]

i paid full price for the game and haveno regrets, im struggling to beat it, but im having a great time with the game, i can´t say the same for full price AAA games from big studios, for example god of war 3, a great game for sure, but a very short one too, and with no replayability afther the first round, and many others, so i can say for sure that the game deserves more love than hate

[jznrpg]

Best new IP I’ve played in a while . It is totally worth it

[Platinum_k]

I have a love/hate relationship with this game. It's addicting but I fucking keep dying.

I have some ideas for improvements:
- They need to lose the scanning function. I have never used it.
- Update the Main map top show everything the mini map shows!

[Bathyj]

WTF is this Shiite? No one is being duped here. We all know what this game is. And if you don't do your research you idiot.

[JayRyu]

This is a relative question. It's worth 70 dollars for those who are will to pay for a game that they like.

I LOVE Hellblade! It's not considered triple A, but if it was 70 bucks I would have paid for it, Because I (emphasis on I!) Think that it is worth it.

The standard $70 price for triple A games is a lot. It will just make people more selective about experiences that they are will to pay that price.

[jBlakeeper]

It’s very fun with great gameplay. There’s nothing else like it out there which is why it’s so special. The first triple AAA rogue like.

[Donjune]

It cost like a AAA!

[FanboysKiller]

Something that that light and can be beated in 5 hrs but people gonna keep talking about it is not my type, I would rather save the talk and keep myself busy playing the game.

[anast]

I hope these same people question whether or not live service games are AAA experiences.

[chiefJohn117]

Glad someone said it, but if people enjoying it and not complaining bout price than the Jury has spoken. I've played $30 games that I felt was best in genre. if they charged $70 for it I may have still bought it but it wouldn't sit right with me.

[metalhead]

If Call of Duty and Madden can shit out a “AAA” game every year and get away with it, then yes this Returnal definitely earns the right to be called a AAA game. It took me longer to beat Returnal than ANY COD campaign on Veteran