At this moment Killzone 2 is using only 60% of the PS3's SPU. This proves that the PS3 is a very powerful gaming machine. I really want to know what games we will see in 3 years (if they can use the PS3 for 100%). For more info click the link
The good news is that IBM has been able to squeeze out nearly 97% of the theoretical max, which in turn would be 97% of the SPUs. So assuming devs can get a better hold I would imagine maybe 80% - 85%. In any case it is still a ton more power. Also note that KZ 2 using 60% is a lot different than say, Dead Space using 60%. A simpler and smaller game using the same power that KZ 2 is using would be absolutely mind blowing. Remember that it only hits up the 6x SPUs at 60% when there is a heavy load. Now think 60% ALL THE TIME. :)
I have never had any problem playing Dead Space on my PS3. That's strange! Anyway Every PS3 exclusive from now on will only get better and better. By the time the PS4 hits PS3 games may look similar to Launch PS4 titles due to the massive power of the SPU's.
no wonder xbox 360 is now trying to compete with the the wii(pricing and games), it's because it can't compete any longer with the ps3, i mean a game like killzone 2 only using ps3's 60% power.. wow! oh my god. i'm just drooling right now thinking what they can do on 100%, maybe not until killzone 3 or god of war 4. hehehe! anyway it's all good!
I read in an interview, that infamous developpers are using 30% of the SPU's and if they push the optimizations further, they can end up using only 10% and with better graphics! Guerrila developpers are great, but they aren't the best in that way! May Be Studio Santa Monica and Readyatdawn have the best programmers! Trust me we will have GOW3 with the best graphics ever made and not needing even the half of the power because it will be more optimized! Same goes for GOW4! David Jaffe said in an interview in which so asked him wether GOW3 is making ps3 sweat, he answered:" GOW3 is not making the ps3 sweat, it is only making it warm, may be GOW5 or GOW6 will make it sweat"! And I believe him 120%! In the begging of the ps4 era we will have games on the ps3 that will look better than the first ps4 games, like GOW2 last year, it had even hd mode and it was mislead as a next gen game! Maybe with GOW5 or GOW6 we will have the promised 120fps in 1080p or higher, who knows? ( I don't expect that from Guerilla programmers though)!
This is really cool, however I think the meaning is a bit misunderstood. What this means more than anything is that KZ2 programmers optimized there code well in addition with the PS3 being a powerful machine, so more than likely no frame dips. However its a misunderstanding of programming to think we 60% they still have another 17%-20% before they reach the full potential because if you program badly you can easily tax the processors for a full 100%. One other think to remember is while the PS3 processors are extremely powerful they are still reliant on the Nvidia video card. I'm not saying the PS3 doesn't have more potential, because I think we still have a ways to go to see; what I am saying is we don't want hear about a game using 100% of the CPU because that normally means we will see frame dips.
They could have done more SPU usage but GG decided to keep spu usage at 60% for steady framerate. The more enemies, physics, lighting on screen the SPU usage will likely go up to 80-90%. If say GG were to have spu usage at a constant 80-90% there will be no room for play and a lower framerate will occur under heavier loads.
Don't ever turn off your Ps3 witht he back switch like that. It's equivalent to unplugging your computer while it is on, not good. Instead do a hard reset by holding down the power button in the front for a few seconds until it starts blinking and it will shut down itself. I had to do it a few times with Fallout 3.
No, it won't go up to 80-90%. If you read the article, the devs say that it only hits 60% maximum at the most taxing moments of the game. The majority of teh game runs at less than 60% of the SPU usage.
They will never ever ever ever reach 100%.You know why? Because only if Kratos wants it, if he wants more CHAOS! Remember the psp case, the psp full power was inacessible, and thanks to GOW:COO they unlocked it. Remember that PS3 has a locked SPU and they can still release firmwares to unlock it and also to lower the usage of the SPU dedicated to the OS, so they can have a new amount of power and all the previous percentages will change. So stop flaming this thread, I don't believe even the sony developpers. Even between twins there are too much differences, why would I generalize this on every devolopper? There are developpers who are more skilled than those and who can affirm that the PS3 is more powerful (same goes for the lame developpers who complain saying it is weak)! Like I said before only GOD OF WAR 6 WILL UNLEASH THE TRUE POWER!
Page 52. While this is a bit old, I guess the current code runs similar. So, its not that they could just squeeze the remaining 40% out of the CELL at any time - not without a re-design.
If you look at the diagram, there are gaps. These gaps are the idle time of the SPUs. Now, you'd need to fill those to reach 100% (or close to that). However, at some points, that's just not possible. And doing so and keeping the balance across 6 SPUs is hard (to reach 100% with life code impossible - benchmarks - these "97% usage" examples are benchmark code, which try to saturate the EIB, nothing more).
This old presentation from Guerilla only uses 4 spus, maybe that has changed.
Ideas to fill these gaps or the remaining 2 spus could be running (more) AI and/or physics in those idle moments, or on additional SPUs (= more enemies, better animation or more things to blow up, or even more particle effects, for example). Maybe this has been done already. Or even run a more sophisticated SPU setup to assist the RSX even more (that is what they primarily do with their setup now).
Wow I guess in 3 years we will see 100% of the PS3's power and it will end the aids epidemic and usher in the new age of 4th dimensional gaming! No developer has been able to harness the immense power of the cell since a team of quantum physicists built the PS3 with such immense complication that not even a team of 100 developers can figure out how to unleash it's power.
What was the point of your post? Sure it might be difficult to develop for but wasn't the PS2 hard to develop for also? My point is that it's not being used to it's fullest potential and every year more and more of that potential is met. It might not find a cure for aids or feed the hungry but it will surely bring us more polished games.
Anyhow, i'm glad to see that KZ2 isn't giving the PS3 a workout it can't handle.
OOOH HELL NO!!!! I am the only true wielder of the Omega Force! You must be my brother Drax.. but I thought I killed you in order to usurp the Omega Force. Could you possibly be Kalibak?! Maybe my other bastard child Orion? It makes no difference... I will use the anti-life equation and make short work of you both with my billions of minions!
that the cell has a main processor with 8 spe's supporting it so its not like there are just four spe's running this game. i dont know how many of the spe's are availiable but there is still a main processor doing its thing too. :)
because sometimes you may be staring at a blank wall and there'll be nothing going on and other times all hell will be breaking loose and the physics, effects, poly-count, etc will be off the charts.
They will also never be 100% for all six. Why? Because there needs to be margin for error. As their code improves, they will probably work their way up to about 85%, maybe a bit more with instances close to 100% but nothing sustained.
The key to that is to treat SPU's the same way as GPUs are treated by focusing on parallelizing tasks. The real challenge, however, is not the processing power, that's easy, but data management. That's something they will refine over time. MGS4 takes a unique approach where certain scenes are almost like a different game and are coded uniquely with unique assets. If you've played it, you know what I'm talking about.
Phil Harrison says we will never be able to use the full potential of the PS3. Of course he's talking about the 10 year future proof plan. And based off of Killzone 2 I think Phil Harrison is correct. Killzone 2, i'm guess took 5 years to develop. The next game will take another 5 years to develop and i'd doubt it will reach 100%. So far the "quotes" that were bashed against in 2006 are actually becoming true. So only the nay sayers are wrong. The people like me and other Sony followers are correct. I love being correct.
"Seems to me if they are using only 60%, then why don't they use the other 40% to smooth out the framerate?"
It's because Sony themselves have not figured out how to use the rest of the cell yet. Time will allow them to figure it out and by the end of the generation they will be able to use 90% atleast.
The issue is getting devs over the hump to easily use the PS3' power. Killzone 2 has been in development for ages and it shows. However I hope that there is a way for devs to share info and engines to make other games. Insomniac must be alittle annoyed at some of their results with resistance compared to Killzone 2. I love resistance don't get me wrong but Killzone 2 at this point LOOKS to be superior in every way.
mikeslemonade Killzone 2 took 3 years to develop not five so that means we will have time for Killzone 2 Killzone 3 and Killzone 4 by the end of the 10 year life cycle.
I am shocked that Sony uses even that much of it's SPU. Kind of like the joy you get when watching the kids at the Special Olympics cross the finish line. Makes you feel all warm inside.
Take off the hemit Sony and start driving the bus instead of sitting in the back. If your games are only running at 60% of your SPU then that might account for all the hiccups your system seems to have with games these days?
now just share your engine with other developers and we will see all kinds of nice games on the pstriple. and if dead space had been done in this fashion i probably would have crapped myself for sure. gotta love my shiny black console
The reason that they limit the SPU's to only every using 60% of each SPU, is in order to make sure they have a solid 30fps framerate. SO they normally use 3 SPU's and if there's more on screen, they split it over all 6 SPU's to make sure it's only ever 60% on each .
If I'm not mistaken, I recall somewhere that Guerilla stated before about Killzone 2 only using 4 out of the 7 operational SPUs on the PS3. Which, if true, would mean that the "60% heaviest load" figure mentioned in this article was the worst-case scenario as measured on 1-to-4 SPUs at a time... with 2-3 more free SPUs completely left to spare.
There is no 7 in the PS3 (8th is disabled). The 7th is always owned by the GameOS (or can you allocate this one now, also ?). So, that leaves 6. Guerilla mentioned using 4 (see the GDC doc). Looks like one is used for control code, rest gets distributed (to the other 3). Can they now dynamically schedule to any number of SPUs ? Would make sense, but depends on the implementation.
They use 2-3 at only 60% capacity each. If there's loads on-screen they'll use all six at only 60% each in order to keep the framerate at a stable 30fps. hope thay helps.
With no proof I still think its possible the 7th OS SPU will be used by Sony towards the end of the life cyslce of the PS3 so that we get the 110% God of War effect. At least I hope so-
I'll avoid a detailed explanation, because I don't understand it fully myself.
In short, the PPE is the bottleneck, and I would guess it's almost always running at 100%. Remember, it's the SPU's running at 60%, not the entire processor.
It's like a call center with 100 people to take calls, but only 60 phone lines. Sure, only 60% of them are on a call, but that's not what matters. What matters is that the phone lines are maxed out and there's 400 people on hold.
The SPU's are able to complete their tasks faster than the PPE can issue them, and thus the SPU's will never be running at 100%.
The game looks great none-the-less, and I do think there will be better optimized games in the future.
Its not the PPU can't issue things to the SPU. They can get their data through DMA pretty much on there own. But you need to put the pieces together at some point. This sync overhead is simply "latency", which makes it hard to reach a 100% load throughout the whole system. Its a high complex parallel machine. Nothing trivial at work here. If you can find a way, where you simply schedule work packages in a way, that they don't cause a lot of overhead, you'll get the full bandwidth of the CELL. But that case usually never happens in a real world application. (Except for things like data streaming and such - where you have one (!) distinct use case running - compared to rendering, physics, AI, input etc. in a game).
'This proves that the PS3 is a very powerful gaming machine' Er YEAH!!! ;-P
F-ALL on the xBox 360 look as good as -
MGS4 WipeOut:HD Uncharted LBP GT5:Prologue Ratchet&Clank:TOD+QFB MotorStorm 1+2...etc etc... ;-P I should know because i got my New SONY HD:TV yesterday!!! ;-P And they all look STUNNING!!! ;-P
How about NOT being a brainless Xbot Retard and NOT play the Halo defense card...to bad for you little teenage twit brain Killzone 2 has both Graphics and Gameplay....
if you want to smack talk a game, do not say BUT, by saying
"Yeah, but..." that shows me that you agree that K2 has amazing graphics better than your Gears2, because if Gears2 is truly better, you would have said Gears 2 is better.
..."what about gameplay? I heard KZ2 gameplay will be its downfall. Gameplay > Graphics"
Thats just another idiot that don't have a ps3 ..broke azz fool ....here is an advice go power up your xbot and play halo and gears and watch netflix....
FOLKS WITH PS3 , THERE IS NO NEED TO EXPLAIN TO THESE DUMBFKS ANYTHING ..EVERYDAY ITS THE SAME ARGUMENT WITH ONE OR 2 PEOPLE WITH 50 THOUSAND ACCOUNTS . I HAVE PLAYED KILLZONE 2 AND PS3 OWNERS CAN'T WAIT TO PLAY KILLZONE 2 . THERES NO ARGUING , THERE WORLD IS HALO , GEARS AND NETFLIX.
All I know is this will be the best looking game when it hits next year and will play fricken great too. That all I care about and would be enjoying the hell out of this game next year
The cpu helps the gpu retard, if there's alot of textures the CPU gives the GPU a push to read the information alot faster. so you can cram in sharper textures so the CPU can help.
pc needs new graphic cards becasue of optimization.
PS3 didnt even gonna have a gPU the GPU is there as support only.
The Cell Processor and RSX works together and the PS3 was constructed with that in mind.
The Cell/RSX relationship allows you to do ALL or NONE of your vertex work or pixel painting on the Cell Processor, whether one or the other is needed depends on the type of game you are making.
When you don’t format your data to run through the cell processor when it calls for it, it will result in a loss in image quality and other problems. That’s why most games suffer when they are ported to the PS3 from PC or the 360; PC or 360 formatted data as it stands is easier for developers to try to run everything from the RSX instead of them reformatting their data to run through the cell processor and then to the RSX.
I think I should write a story about this because two years later a lot of 360 fans still aren't getting it.
go back to play the "most graphical game" that looks bad gears of kill.switch 2
I would like to officially welcome Guerilla Games into the PS3 family, where they will undoubtedly find unparalleled critical and financial success due to the PS3's unrivalled technical and commercial prowess. The PS3 is truly the next generation console of choice for consumers, and has played a leading role in expanding the horizons of gaming into more families. The PS3 is handily decimating Xbox RRoD worldwide and has singlehandedly destroyed the mighty and evil Microsoft brand, crushing the evil empire forever.
You do know the Cell is capable of rendering graphics and assisting the GPU, right? The RSX was included to supplement the Cell and vice-versa. This is the inherent advantage of the PS3 as it is not limited to what the GPU can do. Rather for those who are reading comprehension impaired... The GPU should be used as a baseline of performance which can be further improved/enchanced by using the SPUs on the Cell if need be.
KZ2 uses the cell to do some of the rendering. That's how it manages to look better than any other console game out there. The deferred rendering technique can be done on the 360, sure, but the reason it is so effective for KZ2 on the PS3 is that it lends itself easily to computing some of the graphics on the SPUs and some on the GPU. Read up about it here:
ps3 is the most powerful thing alive.meaning it will live longer than 360.also Yesterday on G4 channel cliff said that epic wants to push gears 3 to the ultime boundaries ,they said they can only do this on ps3.hopefully epic and sony can have a relationship going.gears 3 on ps3 amagine!.ps3 will conquer 08 and 09,after all 360 only gears 2 and fable lol!.and gears 2 still laggy LOL
RSX 550 MHz on 90 nm process [1] Based on NV47 Chip 300+ million transistors [3] Multi-way programmable parallel floating-point shader pipelines[4] Independent pixel/vertex shader architecture 24 parallel pixel-shader ALU pipes 5 ALU operations per pipeline, per cycle (2 vector4 , 2 scalar/dual/co-issue and fog ALU, 1 Texture ALU) 27 floating-point operations per pipeline, per cycle 8 parallel vertex pipelines 2 ALU operations per pipeline, per cycle (1 vector4 and 1 scalar, dual issue) 10 FLOPS per pipeline, per cycle Maximum shader operations: 136 billion shader operations per second Floating Point Operations per Second: 1.8 TFLOPs (1.8 trillion Floating Point Operations per Second) 24 texture filtering units (TF) and 8 vertex texture addressing units (TA) 24 filtered samples per clock Maximum texel fillrate: 12.0 GigaTexels per second (24 textures * 550 MHz) 32 unfiltered texture samples per clock, ( 8 TA x 4 texture samples ) 8 Render Output units / pixel rendering pipelines Peak pixel fillrate (theoretical): 4.4 Gigapixel per second Maximum Z sample rate: 8.0 GigaSamples per second (2 Z-samples * 8 ROPs * 550 MHz) Maximum anti-aliasing sample rate: 8.0 GigaSamples per second (2 AA samples * 8 ROPs * 550 MHz) Maximum Dot product operations: 54 billion per second 128-bit pixel precision offers rendering of scenes with high dynamic range rendering (HDR) 256 MB GDDR3 RAM at 700 MHz 128-bit memory bus width 22.4 GB/s read and write bandwidth Cell FlexIO bus interface 20 GB/s read to the Cell and XDR memory 15 GB/s write to the Cell and XDR memory Support for OpenGL ES 2.0 Support for S3TC texture compression
337 million transistors in total 500 MHz 10 MiB daughter embedded DRAM (eDRAM) framebuffer on 65 nm process. NEC designed eDRAM die includes additional logic (192 parallel pixel processors) for color, alpha compositing, Z/stencil buffering, and anti-aliasing called “Intelligent Memory” (eDRAM), giving developers 4-sample anti-aliasing at very little performance cost. 105 million transistors [2] 8 Render Output units Maximum pixel fillrate: 4 gigapixel per second (8 ROPs x 500 MHz) Maximum Z sample rate: 8 gigasamples per second (2 Z samples x 8 ROPs x 500 MHz), 32 gigasamples per second using 4X anti aliasing (2 Z samples x 8 ROPs x 4X AA x 500 MHz)[1] Maximum anti-aliasing sample rate: 16 gigasamples per second (4 AA samples x 8 ROPs x 500 MHz)[1] 500 MHz parent GPU on 65 nm TSMC process of total 232 million transistors 48-way parallel floating-point dynamically-scheduled shader pipelines[3] Unified shading architecture (each pipeline is capable of running either pixel or vertex shaders) 10 FLOPS per pipeline per cycle Maximum vertex count: 1.5 billion vertices per second ( (48 shader pipelines x 500 MHz) / 16) ** Maximum polygon count: 500 million triangles per second[3] (1.5 Billion vertices / 3 vertices per triangle) Maximum shader operations: 48 billion per second 240 GFLOPS (10 FLOPS x 48 shader pipelines x 500 MHz)[4] MEMEXPORT shader function 16 texture filtering units (TF) and 16 texture Addressing unit (TA) 16 filtered samples per clock Maximum texel fillrate: 8 gigatexel per second (16 textures x 500 MHz) 16 unfiltered texture samples per clock Maximum Dot product operations: 24 billion per second Support for a superset of DirectX 9.0c API DirectX Xbox 360, and Shader Model 3.0
In conclusion Maximum Flops:240megaflops VS 1.8 gigaflops Maximum Dot product operations: 24 bil/s VS 54 mil/s Maximum shader op/s:48 bil/s VS 136 bil/s Max pixel fillrate: 4 gigapixel/s AA: 4xMSAA vs 2xMSAA
The good news is that IBM has been able to squeeze out nearly 97% of the theoretical max, which in turn would be 97% of the SPUs. So assuming devs can get a better hold I would imagine maybe 80% - 85%. In any case it is still a ton more power. Also note that KZ 2 using 60% is a lot different than say, Dead Space using 60%. A simpler and smaller game using the same power that KZ 2 is using would be absolutely mind blowing. Remember that it only hits up the 6x SPUs at 60% when there is a heavy load. Now think 60% ALL THE TIME. :)
now just share your engine with other developers and we will see all kinds of nice games on the pstriple. and if dead space had been done in this fashion i probably would have crapped myself for sure. gotta love my shiny black console
The reason that they limit the SPU's to only every using 60% of each SPU, is in order to make sure they have a solid 30fps framerate. SO they normally use 3 SPU's and if there's more on screen, they split it over all 6 SPU's to make sure it's only ever 60% on each .
I knew that.
It's damn powerful alright.
All I know is this will be the best looking game when it hits next year and will play fricken great too. That all I care about and would be enjoying the hell out of this game next year