Xbox Series S RAM Not an Issue, But GPU Performance Presents Challenges for Future Titles

4A Games CTO Oleksandr Shyshkovtsov doesn't believe the Xbox Series S RAM is an issue, but the console's GPU performance could be challenging

[CaptainHenry916]

Interesting article

[Army_of_Darkness]

Interesting indeed... So the ram isn't an issue for them currently ( probably because their games have been linear and single player), but I'm sure that will change once they decide to do something open world. As for the GPU, that was an obvious drawback right from the get go....
MS, bringing in a last gen console to a next gen gun fight just to entice the casuals on its pricing.... 🙄😑😒

[mikeslemonade]

You're a special person if you bought the series s as your current gen system.

[Sophisticated_Chap]

There is currently a global recession, so while the Series S sucks, you can't blame Microsoft for trying to appeal to people who have fallen on hard times.

[SullysCigar]

^ @Sophisticated_Chap, that's a lousy attempt to rationalise the existence of the Series S. It's a far harder value proposition than either Series X or PS5, for reasons previously discussed, repeatedly, on this very forum.

[RedDevils]

@Sophisticated_Chap why don't they keep their Xb1x, it can play all the the xsx games, why bother with Series S?

[GamerRN]

Not everyone can afford 500. If you can, the S isn't for you. The S is for the people who need a cheaper entry point and can't afford the best.

[mikeslemonade]

You shouldn’t be playing games then if you can’t afford $500 which is one of the cheapest price points when you adjust for inflation.

[Kabaneri]

Series S was a mistake. They unvieled "the world's most powerful console" only to shackle it to lower end consoles. The Series X will be held back for two years by OG XB1, and after that it will be held back by the Series S. Series S will probably limit third party games as well. Knowing MS they will probably discontinue the Series S since they have zero integrity when it comes to supporting their products. All that hype for the One X and they abandoned it after 3 years (where it got no worthwhile exclusives other than Gears 5). Unless they actually release some decent games I have no interest in Xbox this gen.

[DaveZero]

I disagree with you and I own a series S for alot of reasons.

The machine is ace to be fair and it's like lightning compared to last gens machines, yes all of them including the X. The only machine it doesnt dance with is obviously the series X.

[RedDevils]

That the price you pay for when you cheap out.

[GamerRN]

So the PS5 will be held back for 2 years because of PS4?

[Amplitude]

Yeah this gen my tv stand is repping a ps5, back compat ps3, a switch and a pc. Microsoft is really dropping the ball this gen

BUT - your points make no sense. I mean, to be fair, they never once claimed that One X would have exclusive games and Gears 5 also wasn't exclusive to One X so I'm not sure what you're talking about at all lol. Also, I'm no Microsoft fan by any means but I can't think of any products they quickly abandoned.

They even kept Zune going way longer than they should have. Not to mention the kinect. I'm a huge PlayStation fan but they're way worse for abandoning products after very little support. The vita is def the most memorable but also the PlayStation Eye, Move games (not vr), the Navigation controller, hell psvr support on ps5 games is looking questionable, PS2 back compat, Linux, the aim controller, etc etc etc. Holy christ the PSTV (set top vita) as well as the sadly short run of PS 3DTV w/ simulview were both shut down unbelievably quick after a pretty huge marketing strategy. I still have literally all these things and can't stress how little support they all received. Lmao I think the only game that had Simulview was Motorstorm Apocalypse.

Lmao I love Sony and always will but Microsoft launches way less products and generally keeps them going longer than they realistically should.

[CrimsonIdol]

RAM isn't much of an issue so long as assets are smaller for the weaker console, being linear and single player has nothing to do with it. In fact the GPU being "an issue" for 4A is clearly because they're such a graphical fidelity driven company. Primary source of RAM usage is going to be on asset loading and streaming. Scale back those assets for the less meaty GPU and you're laughing. They've kept the CPU quite meaty and a fast SSD so games are still going to enjoy a generational leap in what open world and more simulation based games can achieve, regardless of if you choose the flagship or if you choose the budget option, it's just going to come down to the fidelity of that experience. I'm not going to pretend I'd ever be interested in the Series S but it's a perfectly reasonable and smart option, both design-wise and for the consumer, for those that don't want to pay premium and still be able to play the games. It's not going to cripple what can be achieved on the Series X

[DaveZero]

As an Owner of the series S I can honestly say that you are correct, the machine is in fact a little beast.

I've compared load times for many games and the only one the series S doesnt beat is the series x. I play conan exiles alot and the draw distances are better on the series S than any of the last gens consoles, the graphics are better, visually the series s is better Performance is Astonishing on series S on consoles. On Conan exiles there is lag and lots of it on last gen consoles including the standard X, not on the series S not one bit anywhere at any time and it was a dream to play.

Point blank the Series S is a masterpiece for its price a d anyone who wants to get into this new gen cheaply and have a fantastic little runner would be wise to pic it up.

[lonewolf10]

Seems specific to 4A's engine though (at the moment):

"The RAM is not an issue for us (currently), but GPU performance presents challenges for future titles. Our current renderer is designed for high spatial and temporal resolution (read: 4K @ 60 fps). It is stochastic by nature. Dropping any of those would require us to do more expensive calculations dropping performance even further. We have a compromise solution right now, but I am not satisfied with it yet."

[deadfrag]

It's obvious not specific to 4A engine! Going forward this the Xbox Séries S is going to have the same issue with other game engines too! GPU bandwidth speed is lower than X among other known cuts!

[dumahim]

!

[dumahim]

Yeah, why would they design it for 4k60 knowing that's not what the S is designed for?
It does suggest the S would be holding back games on the more powerful consoles though.

[ABizzel1]

Their renderer is 4K@60 not their target for the Series S

[Zhipp]

It sounds more like the S will be punching even below its own weight for titles like this.

[Zhipp]

Wtf does stochastic mean?

[OptimusDK]

This is as it always is. Developers will cheap out if they can avoid to do the groundwork to optimize every squeese out of it. But i think this is a genious step by MS tor force the developers to optimize the games - this will make them run even more optimized for the SX giving better all around games.
I dont buy the whole mantra of holding something back - if so PC games will hold back the whole industry as they are now the weak part of gaming. Yes there are 3-5% that play on high end rigs, but that is not the driving factor.

[Vits]

It makes sense. The GPU on the Series S is roughly equivalent to the GTX 1060. A GPU that while still great for 1080p/30fps is starting to show it's age in more modern titles.

That said. It's a concerning new for the future of the Metro games and the studio. Given the foothold that they had on the PC market and the fact that the average computer is likely about a Series S in performance.

[Magog]

They are both an issue along with the small SSD let's be real.

[NeoGamer232]

No they aren't. The Nintendo Switch is essentially a high end X360/PS3 and it is the number one seller for the past year plus. The best performing hardware never determines sales. The best games and services drive sales.

If hardware was an issue the Switch would've died shortly after launch.

[S2Killinit]

Except series S will not have the exclusive content that the Switch has.

[sweendog]

Neogamer exactly. Series S is a great little console and is perfect for kids or as a second Xbox. I've got a series X downstairs and my daughter has the series S hooked up to a 1440 monitor upstairs. She gets to use my gamepass account and doesn't really care that it isn't 4k. It has better graphics than her Switch and is cheaper. Most of her friends want one as well.

[Orchard]

@S2Killinit You are right - Xbox will have exclusives like Bethesda games, switch probably won’t.

[waverider]

Not really. The switch is portable and is from Nintendo. A diferent league from the S.

[sweendog]

S2Killinit. Most kids aren't playing Nintendo exclusives on Switch because they are too expensive. My daughter rearely plays Mario kart because most of her friends haven't got it. Nintendo won't reduce the price of their games. They all play Minecraft, Roblox and fortnight however. The series S plays those far better than her Switch or laptop. It will also play next gen games. Even if they are at 1080, most kids don't care.

[NeoGamer232]

@DartMarvin
Games on Switch are driving sales.

And I would classify its portability as a service offered by the hardware.

[darksky]

You cannot expect a $500 console to match a pc with a $1000 gpu. What you get is still better than 60% of 'gaming' pc's since most pc gamers don't buy the top end gpu's.

[LucasRuinedChildhood]

This is about the $300 Series S, not the $500 Series X

[phoenixwing]

Thank you Microsoft for crippling this new gen enough that I don't have to upgrade my pc from the 2070 super I bought

[AngelicIceDiamond]

The the S Series will suffer in the long run. It may do OK at for the first few years but after that the console will be too underpowered to run games that will inevitably get highly sophisticated and complex.

[waverider]

Its not a problem, its a Huge problem. The series is already having problems and many games drop to sub fhd rez. It will only get worse. Bandwith and RAM are really bad. Calling it cheap. Well. The moment You buy more space because it doesnt have almost any, it is too much expensive. If you want a Microsoft console the only choice is the X. Otherwise keep the one X or the one s and wait until the end of the year because it will get cheaper and by that time there will games, like halo

[Dude Dutch]

All these x and s is darn confusing. You mean the xx or the xs, or the sxs?

[XBManiac]

But it will have xCloud compatibility... like your movile phone, TV, PC... wait... Why would anybody buy an Xbox Series S?

[The Wood]

Main problem is that it may split resources between the skus. Devs will have more work to do. I'm not sure a slider will magically make games work at their best on both. Worst case will be if the s holds the x back. Time will tell

[Orchard]

Developers still release 2013 XB1 and 2013 PS4 games in 2021. That’s all that has to be said.

[shabz666]

While what you say is accurate I’m sure in the long run the series s will prove to be quiet a hurdle and challenge for devs to scale games.

Id softwares billy khan has already expressed his issues with the specs, a dev from remedy’s team as well. I would take developers opinions on these matters. Logically a lower spec hardware will hold back titles on the big boy consoles. Engines that don’t scale well will definitely suffer.

Series s is great for casual users. Dropping down frame rates to 30 and cutting off ray tracing might be a viable path forward for series s ports. Upscaling tech won’t work for lower res images of sup 720p to 1080p as it would show artifacts. Will be interesting to see how engine development will adapt to this spec.

[Orchard]

If you can scale from a 2013 Xbox One to Xbox One X, you can definitely scale from Series S to Series X/PS5. The gap is no where near as big, and core features like the SSD and high spec Zen2 CPU cores are still there (in fact, the Series S CPU is higher spec than the PS5 CPU...). CPU is the main thing, scaling CPU is a lot more difficult than scaling on the GPU side.

Also, developers already do this scaling on both last-gen consoles, and PC.

[shabz666]

The cpu being the same as the series x will definitely help. Will have to see how games adapt going forward though.

I still feel series s is a little too undercooked out of the gate compared to series x. But a great little machine packed with a lot of power.

[Orchard]

Yeah I would agree. I think for $299, Series S is a great little box. Especially for kids / second room console / people who just want a FIFA, Madden, Fortnite, COD machine.

But I want a Series X, just haven't managed to find one in stock yet.

[Darkborn]

And here is me again saying that the series s will hold back the Gen but no one believed me. Maybe xboxs plan shifted from wait till e3, to wait till next Gen. Seems about right since most of their games have a 2023 release window.

And for those of you that don't think that different specs don't hold back the higher end consoles, why don't they also make the games for 360 as well? Wouldnt the beast series x still be the best looking games ever then? Hell, make mobile games too. You see now how a lower end machine will always cripple the higher end one? It comes down to the lowest common denominator. Whatever is the weakest has to be fully optimized otherwise we get the cyberpunk fiasco that totally ran fine right. BTW, the entire game was dialed back several times for new Gen and pc because of last Gen consoles and those barely run and have been dialed down way more.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

"Maybe xboxs plan shifted from wait till e3, to wait till next Gen. Seems about right since most of their games have a 2023 release window."

Wait what? So you think MS won't release a single AAA until 2023? OK, That's factually wrong there's no getting around that. Knowing you and your nature I'm sure you're gonna tell me how you're right or attempt to anyway.

[Darkborn]

"Most." was written in that statement. Go reread it. Who's wrong now?

[AngelicIceDiamond]

"Who's wrong now?"

See, desperate attempt. Clearly you. "Most". So 1 exclusive this year maybe one next year but ALL of them the year after. No you're still wrong. We don't know how many games are in the pipeline or when they'll be ready. I'm not just talkin about 1st but 3rd party games also.

We have to wait till 9th gen for MS to start releasing ga.... See this is what why I get annoyed when you ppl purposely say dumb things like this. What are you talking about?

[Darkborn]

The point is the series s will hold back this Gen. And you even said "so one exclusive this year, maybe one next year" proving my point. I'll just wait for you to prove my series s comment wrong. I can wait a few years like you've been waiting for Phils plan to come to fruition.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

"so one exclusive this year, maybe one next year" proving my point.

Swing and a miss. That's not what I'm saying I'm just going through your thought process. Which is wrong as I stated.

I'm not trying to Prove your S comments wrong I think theres gonna be some serious problems with the console in the long run.

[SullysCigar]

If @Darkborn says, "okay, you're right", will you stop? fml

[Destiny1080]

80% of xbox gamers will own a series s, so they better come up with a solution

when the series s drops down to 200 bucks in the next year are two

that's what phils plan is, after all

[Om4ever]

80% of PC gamers with a RTX will own a RTX3070 instead of a RTX3090... Do you mean that the weak 3070 will hold back the 3090 ???

Stop this stupid discussion between the X and S... All PC Developers are facing that since PC exists

[Destiny1080]

i 100% agree with you, xbox games will not be held back by weak hardware

[chronoforce]

Developers do have to face this when developing for PC but the console space is the one place where this is not an issue so why introduce it? Most importantly developers making PC games can choose where to cut their cloth.

[Einhander1971]

Totally agree, PC development has been like this forever, PS4, PS4 pro, Xbox one, one X has followed. If the games keep coming im happy the series S.

[waverider]

This isnt pc gaming. Games will Just look worse and run worse. They already do. Dynamic rez that drop lower than 900p. The S is a Huge mistake.

[Vanfernal]

There are such things as minimum requirements to run games. There's only so much you can downscale.

[Knightofelemia]

Microsoft should have just made the Series S the same specs as the Series X minus the disc drive I understand the price point and casual gamers. But a half gimped console to me is pointless better to save the cash and buy the Series X. Sony was able to get things right with the PS5 same specs across the the board minus a disc drive different price points.

[Einhander1971]

Personally I bought a Series S, just for some Xbox stuff I like and want in the future. I have a PS5 and Switch for my main fix. But maybe get a Series X later on.

[CrimsonWing69]

I guess with parity MS won't let there be specific games for the Xsex that couldn't be played on Xses.

I'm hoping this Diet RC Cola of a console won't hold this gen back.

[Zeref]

That's where super resolution comes in

[Neonridr]

It was a mistake making this console. I get MS is trying to provide options, but I think doing the digital / physical while maintaining the system specs was the proper choice by Sony.

[TheEnigma313]

They wanted to try to undercut sony and failed.

[Neonridr]

I just think they should have kept it simple. Too many variants in the market just confuses people and messes developers up. Imagine if they just had one Xbox and one Playstation to make games for. Would have been so much simpler.

[metalgod88]

I love the Series S. While yes, it may be difficult for developers to get the most out of it, you can't beat the price point. Unless they want to create a fiasco and say, "This game only runs on Series X", then they're just going to have to deal with it.

[XxINFERNUSxX]

There should have been only one console. Series X; and this goes for PS5 to, just one from each. Both being the $500 console period end of story.

[AmUnRa]

Noppe MS should have done it the Sony way, 2 consoles with exactly the same hardware, one with bluray drive, one without. That would be a lot of easier for developers.

[TheEnigma313]

Nah sony did it the correct way.

[Father__Merrin]

the gpu should have been upped a little where as a series x goes for 4k the series s settles around 1080p range if its a 60fps title its a great console but i feel they might have mis sold it slightly as during the promo it was same game as series x just targetting 1440p but its turned out to be a much bigger gulf not only resolution but fps and detail levels

[AuraAbjure]

"Metro Exodus will be updated later this year to run at 1080p@60 FPS on the Xbox Series S, featuring full ray-traced lighting, per-pixel ray traced GI, and ray traced emissive surfaces with area shadows." 😮

Wow, to think a $299 current gen console is capable of that. Its capabilities will only continue to impress as time progresses and developers become more familiar with its hardware.

[DaveZero]

I dont se how it does presents challenges. Even against the standard xbox one, S and X the series S still out performs them and I myself have friends in my parts who go bonkers over the fact that a 250 gbp machine could out perform a standard X on so many levels.

All that missing from a Series S is its drive, 4 k enhancement and its drive is lower (which is not a big deal), I am more than happy with the results I've seen from my series S

[waverider]

It doesnt not out perfom the one x. It cant have the upgrades of the one x... It got a much better cpu. But loses on bandwidth, RAM and the gpu its not that better. Nobody that got a one x should by the S. Its a console for casuals.

[xer0]

The crutch of this generation...

[aaronaton]

So if a develop wants to bring their game to the Xbox platform, does it have to run on the Series S no matter what?
Looks like the Series S is going to hold back 3rd party titles this gen, luckily i'll have some great 1st party ones to play on my PS5.

[gold_drake]

noooo wuuuuuat, noo wayyy, but its a moonnnster, a beeeast.

what a joke.