Square Enix's Move To The 360: A Terrible Mistake?

OXCGN staff debate for and against the recent moves by Square Enix to widen their horizons and pursue the Western markets with an increased emphasis on supporting the Xbox 360:

Excerpt from the FOR argument:

"There will be a learning curve but essentially it is a move that if approached correctly could see some bigger games coming out, changing RPG's and other games that we have grown to love.

Sure we will still have our JRPG's (Japanese Roleplaying Games) but here is an opportunity to amalgamate to styles into the one game and even if it only stays afloat for a short period of time I am sure it will deliver something special.

It is a big step for any company such as Square Enix and wont be cheap however the gamble could really pay off."

Excerpt from the AGAINST argument:

"As a hardcore JRPG fan, I have to lay all my cards on the table. I could sit here and tell you that Square Enix's support for the Xbox 360 has brought about a wonderful new era in gaming, or that their 360 outings have produced stellar results, but I won't. I won't try and convince you otherwise because we both know it's not true.

Last Remnant is currently in my Xbox and I'm contemplating how the mighty have fallen."

Hit the link for the full debate and a commentary at the end:

[alexM]

SQUARE is losing reputation in the process

[gaminoz]

Only if they make crap games. Can they do anything amazing except Final Fantasy 3 Billion and five?

[alexM]

Honestly i think FF13 will be crap too

when companies focus too much on money then this is what happens.
IU flopped, LR flopped , SO4 will flop too (tri ace doesnt make good games)

FF13 will be downgraded for x360 as usual

Honestly just like TECMO Square is finished

[XboxOZ360]

Unless you've been living in a cave, the world revolves around money, without it, companies can not grow, pay salaries, taxes, keep shareholders happy, which in turn pushes more working capital into the business in order for it to fund "future" products. Which is how the entertainment business works.

It works on a future product,not a product that is being used daily like a TV or car. A Company MUST look at income and how to maintain it. Just about EVERY major developer and publishing house is actually LOSING money . despite pulling in huge $$'s that you see through sales, even Ubisoft lost $310MILLION in the last quarter . . Not last year, but in the last FOUR MONTHS.

[WIIIS1]

Don't mind alexM, she/it is just another of Nasim's multiple identities, so anything she/it says is just your garden variety delusional fangirl BS crap.

Nasim's such a whiny loser she/it'll start sending you PMs cursing and swearing and when she/it can't keep up with your PM exchanges, she/it will block you from PMs HA!

Then she/it will assume the identity of another one of her/its other multiple accounts hoping that people would have forgotten it is really just Nasim and try to make comments that pass off as the possible beginnings of intelligence. But it is all a horrible facade because the stark raving lunacy will soon surface again.

HEY NASIM!! According to you FFXIII is going to be crap eh? As opposed to say... your WKC yes?? WKC which is a sure AAA winner that will sell so many PS3s that it will put Wii in 2nd place, right??

[earwax]

Your Rep is $hit too you fvcking 30 screen name having LOSER

[pp_]

Sqaure follows the money every time. It's Microslaves only weapon.

[PLAYSTATIONGENRATION]

The honest truth....there are very few 360 owners who bought it for rpgs...I know I didnt

[sushipoop]

The Last Remnant and Infinite Undiscovery = Both published by Square-Enix and they are also the two WORST rated JRPG's of the year. They're dead to me. Don't care about FFXIII either. At least Versus XIII looks different, unlike any other FF. Rumors say it will be rated M too. Can't freaking wait.

[XboxOZ360]

I'd agree with you there, but still, point is, a major studio and firm is - should I say, Has moved to the platform, and it could spell bad things for them if they lose the following they once had in Japan.

Japanese people as a nation are fickled at best when it comes to whatthey support. If they see a company 'deserting them" they usually do not take kindly to it. Look at Sony. Nindi has stayed true to its main supporters. The Japanese.

They (Japanese) have made it the highest selling console and platform as a whole over all others. Sony, the once loved platform of Japan is now run by Gajins and they (Japanese) are nit taking kindly to that, and it is reflected in how they treat the company locally.

[Peter Griffin]

w/e the case is, im still waiting for XIII's deliverance. ill say this over and over but the engine that was running Versus and XIII is perhaps til this day the best graphics i ever seen.

only Crysis and K2 fall within its catergory

[bbelly9320_]

The keyword here is 'published'.

Square Enix did not create Infinite Undiscovery, Tri-ace did. As for Last Remnant, that was developed by the less talented SaGa series team.

And it shows. Luckily the teams that matter are busy working on XIII and Versus.

[NaiNaiNai]

dont forget that tri-ace is putting all of there effort into star ocean 4, so its not surprising, tell me what other games besides FF and KH have been good from SE, you got remember, they are putting these games out so poeple have something to play while they are working on there best titles. tell me what was the gap between FFX and FFXII. alot and both games where good. same for KHI and KHII. you people seem to forget before they only made those games. now they put out extra for you and you hate it and want to leave. T_T because they wanted to give extra.
-nai-

[pavarotti]

that's what i thought. i think perhaps articles like this should wait until final fantasy is here. if the flag-ship title bombs, then it's certain that square have lost their magic. until then, the rest is speculation.

plus, if you want hits for your web-site, you only have to post something negative with 360 in the title for a massive hit boost from n4g.

[el_bandito]

SE sure will get a lot of $ going multi-plat.

Many have swallowed already the FFXIII-to-360-jawdropper that led to the delay of the PS3 version, but with Infinite Discovery and Last Remnant...

Boy! SE sure did lose some of it's good rep.

As one guy from N4G commented, SE is fastly becoming the EA of Japan. They get money constantly that they don't mind already how good or crappy their games are.

[Willio]

I wouldnt buy FF13 since it went multiplatform. Since Square-enix went multiplatform, the quality has to be equal so as a result, xbox360 will gimp the PS3 version. Its not even a conspiracy, just face the facts.

[gaminoz]

@ Pavarotti

Mate you need to READ the article, despite the title. It's a DEBATE, which means one guys is FOR and one guy is AGAINST. The title is suggestive of what a lot of people are saying out there..is it a stuff up?

I guess you're right about people being more attracted to negative, but that's in most of these N4G articles....Mind you don't you think it interesting a 360 site has that as a title? You'd expect that from a PS3 site wanting to drag the whole Square Enix going to 360 thing down.

[pavarotti]

it doesn't matter that the site has 360 in the title, you're a contributor, and have obviously been around to know how it works on n4g.

how many replys and hits do you think it would get without a bit of 360 negativity in the title?? not many. i'm sorry if i sound cynical, but there's plenty of sites that leech hits from this site by doing negative 360 stuff. gameplayer.com.au(from your part of the world aswell) is a site that automatically springs to mind...there's others whos name escapes me.

and the thing is, se have only published some of the recent under-performing games, they've not developed them. as i said, until ff13 is here, judgement should be reserved.

anyway, pm later if i was right and you recieved an influx of traffic to your site toiday.....i think you will!

[gaminoz]

@ Pavarotti

What are you on about? Do you have an anti-Australia site thing?

I read a lot of Gameplayer stuff and they have views that often contradict the majority here: some of their writers were pro WW2 when almost everyone here said COD WAW wouldn't work and there were too many WW2 games (all 2 this year). So I don't think they try to put anti-360 headlines out there for hits either; they just put up controversal opinions. Which is good...

I think you are suffering from the fact that there IS a lot of Sony fanboyism on N4G: I've seen plenty of it. But 360 fanboyism isn't any better.

You are right about waiting and seeing, but part of the fun of gaming is anticipation and the debate about if a game will or will not live up to expectation.

A lot of people here haven't been spouting anti-360 rubbish; they have a variety of opinions including the Square and Enix mix, the fact that making a game on 360 seems to make them feel like they need to Westernise more then if they stayed with Sony, and the engine used now. Also the question: was it really a coup for the 360 to have Square Enix anyway, the way they are going?

[JoySticksFTW]

I understand that it's a business, but really... this new direction in just pushing out games just smacks of EA tactics.

Oh, Square will still have a hit or two every few years, but the glory days of their "every game is special" mentality seems to be gone.

No more FFI-XII, Mother/Earthbound, CronoTrigger/CronoCross, Xenogears, Parasite Eve quality titles year after year

[ultimolu]

I see these games (Infinite Undiscovery, Last Remnant) as a way for Square to make quick cash.

It's just disgusting on their part.

[XboxOZ360]

It NEEDS to in order to survive in todays market place.

As hard as it might be to understand, these companies do HAVE to make a profit, and continue to grow and expand. They have these funny things called "Shareholders' - -They actually supply the MONEY that allows companies to future-invest, without which, they would not be able to fund a single game to the tune of say $US20 - $US50 mil.

So you'll have to forgive them for wanting to become the biggest at what they do. Yes, they are looking at becoming the biggest known Japanese Based Publishing and Development house. So bloody what. Get a grip, without them doing that, they will have to close their doors for good.

Investors have this funny thing about slipping market shares, and they do this odd thing by removing their portfolios (read lots and lots one money) from supporting that company, and re-invest it into one that is moving ahead, even if it may well be showing a loss at the time. It's called future capital investing.

Ubisoft is French Canadian based Publishing and Development house, no different to Square Enix. Except that SE is based in Japan,and has had primarily a Japanese user base. In order for it to grow and stay "viable" it MUS open up to the west and opther markets - or face the distinct possibility of having to shut down or at least minimise it's ventures. Which is again, not what investors want.

Sure sure, what the hell t=do many gamers care about stocks, shares and investors. Well, without them, you'd have NO BLOODY GAMES to complain and moan about

[kazuma]

i don't blame the move to 360, what i blame is that they're saying to ppl "we're going for a more global approach on our games", and then they clearly release more stuff on 360 than on ps3 and wii combined and u have to be blind not to see they're after the american market.
ds < psp < 360 < ps3 + wii
i mean honestly what's with all the crap about forgetting the two biggest japanese consoles and forgetting the two most sold consoles in europe? (and honestly let's not even start about sold console crap, ps3 and wii dominate asia and europe. period) still u can't fool me square, it's obvious you just want the american market.
can't really blame them, it is a big market but AT LEAST make the games good, not the crap that undiscovery and remnant turned out.
i'm fearing for star ocean 4 honestly...all this approach to more "americanized" rpg's clearly is not working and just making them SH*T

[el_bandito]

@OZ

I'm not whining about how SE is growing up into one major developing tycoons in the gaming industry. It's just good for business in pure sense. What I do not get is, how come SE, despite being endowed with these monetary opportunities, have failed as of the moment to even come close to creating the epic games they did before. Square Co. did the FF series, while Enix did the Dragon Quest Series without a budget as big as they have right now. If they did quality games back then, they should be able to do it again, especially with the recent merger that have given them more room to gain popularity outside of Japan.

[Man_of_the_year]

You are absolutley right. Their recent games or published games with Tri-Ace deving them are less than spectacular and they are pushed out to generate money while FFXIII and Versus receive the proper attention that they deserve.

[AAACE5]

The japanese will get FFXIII exclusively on Ps3, so their so called loyalty can live on!

If you look through the history of Ps2 games, there have been alot of games from Square and Enix and alot of other developers that were crap... But no one cared about them much. But now those developers are making games for 360, now every game is under a microscope!

Everyone says the 360's architecture is similar to a PC, so the learning curve shouldn't be that hard, considering all games are made using a PC. Not to mention, most games are made using a multiplat engine. Also FFXIII is being made with the White engine, which is a multiplat engine to begin with!

Seriously people... Just let it go!

@Arrrgh... I know, but I am an optimist. I keep hoping one day it might work... Hahaha!

[kevnb]

its really getting annoying. In the end, all the hate is just because FFXIII is going to the 360. It's not like Square hasn't put out many mediocre games all along. Dirge of Cerberus, Threads of Fate, Radiata Stories, Parasite Eve, Legend of Mana, Musashi Samurai Legend, Drakengard, Dawn of Mana, Unlimited SaGa, the Bouncer are just a few of the many many examples of Square games that are mediocre or worse.

[kazuma]

seriously, putting together parasite eve with square-enix shovelware? that's just...i don't have the words for it.
oh and btw some of those games are considerably "better" than undiscovery and remnant.
god to even think ur comparing parasite eve (1 OR 2) to such crapiness...

[kevnb]

you missed the point, parasite eve is mediocre. I'd much rather be playing Resident Evil. But if you like it, just scratch it from the list.

[Immortal Kaim]

If people actually read the article they would see it is in the form of a debate. One is arguing 'for' the move to the 360, the other is 'against' the move. How is it fanboyish?

[gaminoz]

I can't really say that Square Enix (despite all the hooplah about them making games for the 360) have really set the world on fire with their games.

Though to be honest I find Japanese RPGs to be overly long, with too many cut scenes or (gasp) reading and not enough gaming. I find the graphical achievements are sometimes amazing and the emphasis on storytelling is laudable, but it doesn't keep my interest.

Can a combinaton of Western and Eastern style make a strong hybrid that appeals more? Maybe. I think they'll have to adapt more than they have so far though, and many won't like that.

As for a former exclusive Sony game maker going to the 360: it is obvious that all of the Japanese developers need to do this for more profitability. Look at Capcom. Good decision for them and their bank accounts. Staying with one console (360 or PS3) just isn't financially logical anymore.

[mesh1]

BEFORE THE 360 CAME OUT SQUARE ENIX HAVE BEEN MAKING AVERAGE RPGS . WHEN THEY WERE SQAYRE THEY MADE GOOD RPGD i love how these sony fanboy sites try and associates the down fall of this company top going towards the 360 platform when they have been flopping on sony machines for a while.

[zag]

Square Enix never existed back then it was square only.

The Desginer/maker at Square after FF7 Did the FF movie it sucked up too much cash and Enix another software company or bank? bought out Square and kept the Square in the name as everyone knew that.

The orginal FF designer/maker left Square Enix or got shoved out and FF has been everything under the sun, different groups different stories, I really liked FF7 but I find the story after 7 is just too hay wire to follow.

I think Square Enix is only going to the 360 because the 360 has a large market in the USA, it's like they are only gearing themselves for a move to the US and the japan side is sort of being dragged over to the USA way of thinking.

Which is why people are questioning Square Enix's plans.

I think they may have moved far too much to the 360 in the 1 go.

[Immortal Kaim]

Agreed. Though a 360 owner myself, I can see this transition to the West as a wrong move by Square Enix (at least to the extent they have moved).

The simple fact is, JRPG's have always been a niche' market, by trying to expand and incorporate gamers who traditionally stayed away from JRPG's (maybe because of their perceived complexity) and developing games with toned down gameplay mechanics, they are losing the very audience who enjoy the genre' in the first place.

Dare I say it, I don't even own a PS3 but maybe they should have left FF XIII on the one system...

[AAACE5]

I know alot of you guys love Jrpg's, but SE have to see that companies like Bethesda are taking money and fans away from them! What if their plan is to merge the two? To make games more action oriented.

[Godem]

I love my 360 as much as the PS3..

but my god... keep the final fantasy's with Sony....

[yoshiroaka]

I think its not about platform but about money.
Squarenix just doesnt seem to be putting any effort int o their titles (with the exception of final fantasy 13). They have just been churning out remakes of old games and cheap spin offs of their popular titles in an effort to milk their name.

The last remnant from what reviews say just sounds like they licensed the unreal engine and threw out a quick game to make some holiday money. With out taking the proper time to develop a good game and releasing a buggy flawed experience.

Now this may due to the $$ woes but in my opinion Squarenix hasnt taken this gen seriously yet.

[XboxOZ360]

Yep, agree 100% . .it's a fact that many companies must worry about the $$ . you do know they are in it for the money, not just to make you (us) games for the love of it. They have stockholder to keep happy, tens of thousands of employees to feed and cloth as well as high salaries to maintain to keep the best ppl there.

So yes, it is about $$, but for a good reason, but also, yes, they have not been doing their best as they once did. And it is showing. Many treat the FF series as the second coming to Christ . it isn't . .but still, they do for some odd reason.

[Acj2323]

I think its good that games that are generally ps3 games move to the xbox 360, but there of course needs to be a market for it, and this doesn't, in my opinion its a wast of time.

[Godem]

yeah Square Enix have been bombing out since they released FF12.... all the other final fantasies have been great...

but the point of a single player RPG is to be different to an MMORPG, but FF12 just tries to copy it all, and made it crap (imo)

Here's hoping FF13 goes back to turn based.

[BigMassacre]

XII was a love it or hate it affair. I personally liked it. Sure, turn based or something similar is where its at, but I like trying new things. Plus, I loved the world of Ivalice since Final Fantasy Tactics.

Square Enix just doesn't have it's priorities straight. They want to appeal to the western market, but they should know better to just stick to what they know best instead of trying to be what they're not.

[fishd]

FF XII was a great JRPG,but not a Final fantasy,I mean it just don't have the soul of a ff game,hopefully FFXIII/Vesrus will be as good as old ff games,maybe even better!yay

[dexterwang]

I loved ff12, but I can see why people dislike it. It still sold more than 5 million and recieved >90 on metacritics, so its a huge success IMO...

Everything else Square churned out after that (cept crisis core... I love that game) have been flops and FF13 is looking shakier by the minute

[Immortal Kaim]

I actually purchased FF12 a few months ago, when I have some spare time I really need to play it. It couldn't be as bad as their current offerings?

[Gue1]

FFXII was a great game but too westernized and for those people hat were expecting the usual FF game well, they'll going to get disappointed.

[Tacticity]

I still remember the word they said at e3 2005: We will fully support and backing the PS3. And even at e3 2006 XIII was to be exclusive why they hell did they say XII was gonna be exclusive when they cant keep there promise. When PS2 launched the sales dident blow threw the roof the two first years. It really started good after 3 to 4 year. but still SqaureSoft was willing to wait and see how it went.
This thing SE and Capcom is doing with moving to more western places and not supporting there home country almost at all. For F!ck sake they are forgetting where they come from.

[ViceKingz]

please break away from enix and start making kick ass games again, tyvm

[DiabloRising]

It's not about the 360. It's about quality control, or the lack thereof. The magic is missing. Choices like moving to the U3 engine is stupid as hell because they didn't take the time to learn how to properly use it. If it won't run on the 360, then it sure as hell isn't going to work on PS3 editions sadly.

I would say its more about the merger with Enix than anything.

[BigMassacre]

Nah. Even when they merged with Enix, there were still quality titles. Dragon Quest VIII (though it was developed by Level 5, heh), Final Fantasy XII, Star Ocean 3 (Not as good as 2, but not a horrible game at all), Crisis Core, The World Ends With You...etc.

The problem is, they're trying these new ideas with the wrong methods. Its like Square Enix was not prepared for the HD gaming market. Hell, they even plopped Dragon Quest IX on the DS...not only would it sell the best, but they and Level 5 are very familiar with it.

I'd say it would be a decent bet to just wait for Final Fantasy XIII and Versus XIII. If those fail...then they might as well stick to the portables until they get their act straight.

[Steelspawn]

Well I am all for it. Sure some games are hit & miss and there is the chance it could fail but it could also go the other way.

[baodeus]

I think JRPG just well....OLD. I think western RPGs are rapidly surpassing them.

[Acj2323]

I would agree, but it still good to have them around to offer diverse games to the market.

[TheColbertinator]

I tried to forgive them but the arrogance of SE has made me unable to truly respect them anymore.Gamers already got burned with Infinite Undiscovery,Chrono Trigger remake cash-in and Last Remnant.New contenders must step in to re-energize the genre

[fishd]

A moment of silence in memory of SQUARESOFT...

[Danja]

Squaresoft were Gods back in the day dude , ever since they merged with Enix the quality of they're games has been going down every year..

[Immortal Kaim]

They were also Gods back in the day of Square. Secret of Mana is still my favourite game of all time.... Oh the memories....

[JD_Shadow]

1. Why is SE ignoring all this bad press? The reviews of their games lately have been very negative (the exception is Chrono Trigger DS, a rehash but I don't blame anyone for getting that since it's a rehash of a damn good 16bit era game), their two-faced behavior about being multiplatform and supporting the PS3 when the 360 gets nearly all their action, and the sluggish sales that aren't just because of the economy. This can't be just falling on deaf ears over there, or that no one over there has even heard about the blitz of bad stories being written about them. Why hasn't anyone at SE even ADDRESSED any of these issues yet? Are they too embarrassed at themselves now? My advice to SE: Stop ignoring these things and say something definitive and hold to your word this time.
2. Fanboys were hating FF13 UNTIL Wada made that announcement at MS's E3 keynote. Then they suddenly shoved the fact so far down the PS3 owners' collective throats that it was too hard for them to breathe, telling PS3 owners they had no reason to complain, and pretending like they didn't get screwed by saying "it's still coming out on the PS3". HELLO! Do you guys get the reason behind the outrage? PS3 owners have been hungering for this title for some time, and it has been delayed a LOT. Since you KNOW what MS will be wanting (same date release as the PS3 version), the possibility of the title for PS3 owners being delayed just so MS can have that same date release is highly likely. Unlike the Nintendo to Sony thing a long time ago, there's no storage or CD/cartridge media reason why SE is doing this type of thing this time. Yes, 360 owners deserve good games, too, and yeah, they should be able to play the same great third-party games the PS3 owners do (to a point). However, this must be vice versa, too, and this can't be at the expense of pissing off anymore of your fans who just want to play the goddamn game, already.
3. Yes, the Enix part is screwing with the relations, morals, and standards that the Square part has been known for. Many years has Square held true to the hand the fed them, only feeling the need to go elsewhere when the hand slaps them in the face (as Nintendo did by staying with cartridges instead of moving to the CD media). Now that Enix has seemly seized control of where this ship is being steered, they are following only where they see the river of green from the big corporations that can afford to give a lump some of money that they don't even have a rule on as to how to use it (they could use it for dev costs, building new studios, buying Wada more houses than the seven or so houses John McCain has, without any penalty whatsoever). Square needs to rethink the Enix partnership, if that is even possible now. Oh, wait. There WAS that Square Electronic Arts LLC issue a long time back and Square was able to break away from that, so what's stopping them now.

In short, SE needs to get it together and fast, and actually address these stories that just pile on and on and on. They can't keep ignoring them forever.

[gaminoz]

I don't think any delays will be because of the 360. If that is true then why not just release it on PS3 first then 360 later: Bioshock did that for the PS3. So did Alone in the Dark.

[DiabloRising]

Rumor has it the US release of the PS3 version will indeed be delayed to allow a simultaneous launch.

I'm fine with it going multiplatform. But holding back the PS3 edition MAKES ZERO BUSINESS SENSE and just stinks of moneyhatting.

I also fear for the state of FFXIII DLC. Secret dungeons? Hidden weapons? $5 - $10 a pop. Disgusting.

[Software_Lover]

Because every argument from ps3 fanboys was

Just wait till FF13 comes out. It was their weapon of choice for every fanboy argument. Then it backfired.

I will agree with you though. Alot of those guys did hate on it until it went multiplat. Now its the best thing since sliced bread.

[KARMA2009]

yes
answer = Last Remnant 2 out of 5.
loading time,graphic play is ugly,nice CGI.2 disc ain;'t next gen,its last gen DVD9.

PS3 = BLU Ray FTW

[gaminoz]

Yeah, I'm sure it's all because of Blu Ray...

[Ap3theBad]

that even though sqeenix did not develope both Last remnent or IU,for the fact their name is on the front cover of the game case gives them bad rep.. if the big title said tri-ace then they would be starred at by the consumers but no,square-enix's title name is on there so thats the first thing peps look toawrds.
allthough namura is involed with FFXIII,hes involed exclusively with versus XIII's character depth witch he did for both FFX AND FF7 and i believe one other.. but think about how much of an impact both tho's games had on the consumers or RPG/FF fans.
hes not doing the character depth in FFXIII-only versus. :)

sh!t lol my spelling on a keyboard sux @ss sry.

[caladbolg777]

Square Enix's move to multi-platform was the terrible mistake. We'll see how XIII and Versus go, but you can guarantee that neither are Day 1 purchases for me.

[Ap3theBad]

dude yeah rite,you know your gunna be 1st in line at midnight launch the only one camping for 2 days sittin there eatin cheetos dont lie lol.

[caladbolg777]

lol. wtf? Do I know you? :P

[deno]

Guys just give them some time, more games will come in better quality. I believe the new star ocean will be a great game and so will the new fantasy. But what I truly want is a new rogue galaxy and phantasy star online!!!!

[PirateThom]

How much time can you give them though?

The HD consoles are now 2 and 3 years old and there's not a single good game on either from Square Enix.

Final Fantasy X came out a year after the PS2 launched.
Final Fantasy VII came out within two years of the PS launch.

They released a Final Fantasy game early on the home consoles life and saw massive critical success that gen.

This gen, we're still waiting on Final Fantasy and they've produced utter garbage.

Just something I've noticed.

[deno]

LOL!! bubbles for the cheetos!

[Ap3theBad]

i perfer hot cheetos though one time i ate a whole HUGE @ss bag in under 4 minutes and holY SH!TS (literally)-my dookie was burning lava red lol.. sh!ts deadly.

[rob6021]

SE has been very far behind this gen tech wise, the last two games were rushed, I'm willing to bet the projects that haven't been, will be very good. Yea and SE doesn't think much of 360 that's why they put low budgets and quick release on their titles.

[Acj2323]

I totality agree, it seems like they are a machine spinning of cheap copies of games after another, but if they take the time and develop a game it might bring a change and people might start to get back into them.

[Makidian]

LR is a complete failure on the 360 which is a shame because it will reflect on the PS3 and PC versions and end up killing those sales. Hopefully they make enough improvements to make it a completely different game. SE is testing new game types on the 360 because they think the larger install base of the 360in the US is goingto make them more popular with gamers. That is the most flawed logic they could ever come up with. If SO4 fails also, then it really is saying something about SE and their attitude toward Microsoft and the 360. They could be deliberately sabotaging their 360 releases so they do better on the PS3. LR will most definitely be improved for the 360, SO4 will end up on the PS3 and better than the 360 version is, and FFXIII will end up being garbage on the 360.

SE went from being my favorite game makers in the world to the worst, if they quit making FF then they would completely sink and end up being remembered for what they did ten and fifteen years ago. That is just awful, people forgetting what you are doing today because you are nothing more as a company than what you used to be. SE is going to lose big this gen putting so much poor effort into the 360. Thank god the best dev teams are assigned to FFXIII, FFvXIII, KH3, and various others, basically anything that Nomura is attached to.

THe title of the article needs to be changed though because SE isn't developing exclusively for the 360, so they haven't really MOVED to the 360, just putting some crappy games on it.

[die_fiend]

LR and Infinite Undiscovery were made in such little time, one was basically released before it was announced, it's clear that they weren't a big deal of Square, more that they were gettin used to the 360. FF13 going to 360 isn't gonna be the same, they'll do it properly cos it's their main franchise. It's hardly a terrible mistake making it for a console with a bigger install base, cos just like most titles, it'll sell sweetly on the 360

[XboxOZ360]

Square Enix is a Publishing House and Development Studio/s . . It has dev studios under just like EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Activision etc do. So if they are subject to critisim for THEIR choices with THEIR 3rd party studios, what makes Square Enix any different, and therefore NOT subject to the same critisim.

Some treat Square like some awe-inspiring god-like figure. If it is a major company with sub companies under it, it is responsible for those companies - especially if it publishes their work.

So PLEASE let's don't say it's exempt because one of IT'S development houses does a bad job, it's the same if MS does it with say RARE or Bungie . .The buck end at the top mate.

[die_fiend]

What are you talking about? I know those games were made in house you fool, all I said was that those are noway representative of how amazin FF13 will turn out 2 be. When did I say that it's fine that those games are rubbish. It's a shame yeah, but Square were gaining experience at programming on the 360 which they'll need for FF13. They brought those games out in a ridiculous time frame, which showed how little they meant to Square, showing gameplay straight away when it was announced and also release dates set. Quite the opposite to the thing that actually matters to them, Final Fantasy. They just get a few sales and learn from it. What's this got to do with your response tho? Y are you just saying random things 2 me? When did I say they're not 2 blame or not responsible or exempt from criticism? Never said that did I?

[LeonSKennedy4Life]

Apart from FFVXIII, not many people I know are excited for any upcoming Square Enix games. The only people talking about FFXIII are the 360 owners bragging that they'll get it also...but...we get the one made by the Kingdom Hearts team. What do we care?

[PirateThom]

What gives me hope for Verses is that Nomura begged Wada to keep it exclusive.

It means it's not being made as a cash in, there's actually care going into it to make it a good experience on one platform.

As much as publisher tend to be against Sony, for whatever reasons, they have a lot of developer support from the likes of Kojima and Nomura.

[labwarrior]

I do not see why having FF13 on 360 is a bad idea, more like the best idea ever

And FF13 is the ONLY game to judge Square by, i never expected LR or F13vs to be anything but some spin offs the main game, FF13

[Fux4Bux]

Huge mistake that they're going to pay dearly for. Needed to stay with PS3 for big games and make a few minor games on the Wii. Not to mention the failing quality.

[Godem]

just imageine if Square Enix completely screwed up the FF7 Remake (whenever that may be..) They would be doomed.

[Ilikegames76]

more into FPS rather than RPG. That explain the poor sale of SE rpg games.

[jlemdon]

to all the people who's angry at Square for the IU and Last Remnant.

If I don't recall M$ had a contract with Tri-ace before they went to Square. and Last Remnant was developed by the lower developers.

lemme ask u guys this, Do you personally think if these games were focused only on PS3 that the quality of the game would be better???

don't flame either.

[Software_Lover]

They probably wouldn't even be out right now to be honest with you.

[ultimolu]

They would have been the same.

[SONYSLAVE]

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[XboxOZ360]

Nutty as a two bob watch,one that has been dropped and then stood on . . you sure his handlers aren't on holidays somewhere, I think he needs his medication. (jk btw)

[Software_Lover]

People forget when things dont go their way. The fact that they even hint that moving to the 360 was/is a stupid move even shows their distaste for the console (I dont care if they have one or not)

So by putting those games on the ps3, would that have made them instantly better? People forget about the AVERAGE JRPG's on the ps2. It was flooded with them. No one complained. The argument was "I dont want an xbox because the ps2 has all of the JRPG's". no matter how bad they were people still wanted to play them. Now the 360 is getting alot of JRPG's, pretty good ones and alot of AVERAGE ONE and it was a mistake.

Now the argument is, "I dont want a 360 because even though it has JRPGs they suck anyway".

Man these double standards are amazing.

[Immortal Kaim]

I agree with the against argument. I think it has something to do with the misconception that Westerners prefer a certain style of game. I don't need Unreal Engine and toned down gameplay mechanics to enjoy my JRPG's, I want the damn traditional stuff.

[GameDev]

of how M$ and their "we will outspend everyone mentality" is ruining the console industry. It's not about originality and creativity anymore, it's about bottomline. The 360 fanboys will tell you that this is how it should be cause of course it benefits their console and fuel for flaming PS3 owners. Very poor tradeoff for letting developers turn into accountants instead of being ARTISTS first and foremost.

You know theres another industry that let ACCOUNTANTS run it for a long time until they RAN IT INTO THE GROUND and it started losing money hand over fist because THE ORIGINALITY AND CREATIVITY was gone.

It's called Hollywood, today some studios have actually wised up, kicked the accountants out of the studios and brought true fans of the subject matter whatever the particular movie may be about.

The same thing will happen to console gaming outside of Sony's first party studios. They will become so drunk with the cash that M$ throws around that originality and creativity will GO RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW.
When creating a new game first and foremost they will think "will the 360 crowd like this gametype" and we all know they just buy shooters.

[Official General]

I kinda agree with that. I always seem to hearing these days "it's all about game devs making a profit, multi-platforms games make economic sense". What happened to simply just being dedicated and putting maximum effort into making specific games for specific platforms? The way they throw money around, it seems that Microsoft are turning this game industry into a money-corrupted, financial war zone. Microsoft are just turning into the EA of the console world, just throw money around to get multi-platform games, make generic and inferior products - lots of quantity and less quality. MS just seem to think money solves everything in the gaming world.

EDIT: @ zonetrooper - yeah we understand that has been happening for a while, but in most cases, those companies such as Sony still tended to care very much about putting out quality titles. MS on the other hand just throw money to 3dr party devs to put exclusive games on their platform rather than put money into being more creative.

[Sez]

i find it funny you two are crying about how MS is ruining the game industry with it money hat. when i didn't hear this same crying when sony stole companys and franchises from nintendo. like FF didn't start out on the nes. or are you even old enough to remember back then. now your getting up set because MS is doing the same thing sony once did back when they first came out with the ps1.

have you ever took the time out to ask yourself why if all these companies like capcom,SE,bandai,ect choose to go mutli-plat when they made alot of money with sony in the past. maybe they see something we don't or choose not to accept. that alot of games aren't selling like they are expected to this gen. and that the cost is high. and unless sony gets off their @sses and start helping these dev's. they will see alot of theirs classic franchises go mutli-plat. so stop blaiming MS for what sony don't want to do.

[kazan]

i wish,, really wish that it was still "Squer-soft" :( miss the old days ,,

[zonetrooper5]

Moneyhatting/bribing etc whatever you want to call it has been happening ever since the games industry has started, they don't care about me or you they just want your cash - the green stuff. The games industry needs money to keep on going, Sony has created it fair share of unoriginal games not to say they weren't fun but I wouldn't blame MS for ruining your favourite hobby.

[FinalomegaS]

Ahh this is utter joy to see this site go on this article debate about something that has happen before with Square.

I still feel they should of stayed with Nintendo, but hey that's just me. I didn't like the idea but now they are still moving on to the next thing, multiplatform. You guys need to face it and suck it up, they are a company and they must follow the rules of the game and if they must find a way to make more money they will do so. How much earnings can they really reach with one system as opposed to many?

The fan boys on here that say they wont buy the game because the fact its being made for the other system will bring the game quality down is just rubbing that crystal ball to hard. So i guess they wont be buying RE:5 either. It all depends on which dev team is making the games.Honestly how do you want the team making the FF XIII game work on the other 2 games, Square isn't the same as to when they used to make games exclusively to one system and have one dev team. They grew up and the market is bigger. Same goes for Sony and their brand games like GT and God of war series, Nintendo also. Square is a 3rd party and they need revenue to make their share holders happy, would of thought you guys knew this by now. Now obviously we have not played the new FF XIII so how the same hell are people saying it's not going to be good =/

I like the article but MS and Sony combined make a good user base, don't think making games only on ps3 will sell enough systems to sell enough games for them. It's business things.

Wounder if we can get a petition to get FF III remade with voice and 3D. I will be first to sign up.

[McLuvn]

or

"What happened to the intense turn-based combat of old, where subtle tactics and forward planning were the cornerstones of any decent JRPG?"

platform is incidental fankids

[arngrim229]

thing is no body noticed it when square made a few bad rpgs last gen but this gen everyone thinks square sux cuz supposedly every next gen game has to be AAA. anyone remember radiata stories???? how bout dawn of mana???? how bout musashi 2??? oooo wait square was still great back then right? or is it cuz no one noticed those games since the ps2 had millions of jrpgs???

but now 2 more mediocore games come out and it means square sux when square only makes good games with their big titles. buuuut people are blind. ps2 had hundreds and hundreds of games, hundreds were good, hundreds were bad, this gen doesnt have that many yet so people just ted to see only the AAA and the bad, its sad really

[dboyxz]

I used to be big believer in Square Enix, but I am not surprised lately for lack of quality in their recent games. There older games like Chrono Trigger were masterpieces. Basically they are looking at the $$$ instead of trying to make a good game nowadays. Plus this gen they basically thumbed their noses at us ps3 owners when it comes to software titles, saying they support multiplatform while in reality they concentrate more on some platforms (360) while doing little for others (ps3). To me reminds you of the girlfriend who says she loves you to your face, then cheats on you behind your back. Only square game I will get is Chrono Trigger for DS . Well might rent FF XIII. Companies Like Sega ( Valkyria Chronicles), NIS (Disgaea series) and Level 5 (White Knight Chronicles) are starting to get more of my interest. They seem to care more for their fans. SQEX hurry up and give us that PS3 exclusive remake of FF VII....Sorry about my rant. I don't mind 360 getting to play some of the games, I just want SQEX to actually STICK to their word and being equal to ALL consoles, rather than what they are doing right now....

[Wolf873]

the story seemed mediocre at best and the gameplay was slow. The time it takes to move from one area to another was also bothersome. After that I didn't even want to try another FF. But this 13th one looks better, and I may get it if its not too much like 12 gameplay-wise. Anyways, I don't think FF-13 going 360 should stop anyone from purchasing the game if your into RPG. The lead platform is PS3 so you know the product is going to turn out better.

[arngrim229]

u played the worst 1. bad 1 to start with lol

[Wolf873]

I heard the 7th one was the best in the series. If it comes out on PSN I may give it a try.

[GrathiusXR]

All i can see from thsi is broadening their market to cater o every gamer and thus reducing the quality of games that they produce from now on..

Money money money moneyy! money.. that's what comes to mind for me.. ive never followed the FF series Sqaure Enix so i honestly would not have a clue how bad/good their games are but going from JRPS in Japan and such and now opening up a Western studio to develop Western RPGs. well helloo..

[RocknRolla]

It could be a good move or it could not ?? i mean all they do is FF this and FF that never got into FF series played the demo on PS2 woahh! bored much? yess!

They've done what they think was the best choice if they fail well the they fail simple..

[Skyreno]

Damn right is big terrible mistake move to 360... Bad

[ta1snake]

Square-Enix is no longer a favorite JRPGs developer to me and lot of PS3 owners out there. All there games ether sucks or a Xbox's exclusive which are suck also.

[Tony600]

Why mistake?If they can make more money,they dont care about your wishes.All that SE want is your pocket money.They will win new fans,they will sell more copies,more people will enjoy the world of FF etc.Whats the problem?Only little emos are crying.I have heard that some FF fanboys/girls sent dead treats to Square Enix,they cried like little girls,One took his own life,because they went multiplatform.Really sad but funny at the same time.

[DFresh]

I think it's a good thing but also a bad thing that they joined Microsoft to make games on their 360.

I'll say it's a positive thing in one way because it expands the audience to people who don't have a Playstation console.

The bad thing is by going partially exclusive on the 360 they've lost their respect amongst Playstation gamers as well as Japanese gamers.
(Japanese gamers buy Japanese consoles/games made by Japanese devs. Japanese gamers don't like American consoles they never will.)

The only good thing I can say left about Square Enix now to where they have anymore love for Playstation is Nomura and his games.
ex.) I.E (FFXIII Versus & Kingdom Hearts 3)

[die_fiend]

"The bad thing is by going partially exclusive on the 360 they've lost their respect amongst Playstation gamers as well as Japanese gamers."
That's not respect what your talking about. I don't respect Epic cos Gears is a 360 exclusive, more that they make good games. Playstation owners that feel betrayed need to stop weeping that more people can enjoy games that they enjoy. What's the problem with that? If PS3 got all the 360 exclusives so what?! I wouldn't lose respect for the developer for wanting more profits for future games. Japanese gamers haven't lost respect for them by this lol! They're not as pathetic as many westerners, they'll lap up FF13 because they don't actually care about ridiculous things like Square wanting to make more money.

"The only good thing I can say left about Square Enix now to where they have anymore love for Playstation is Nomura and his games."
Right so because they're just porting a single game to the 360 that PS3 owners formally GUSHED over (literally), the whole of Square is now poor and only the PS3 games are gonna be good? LOL! Versus will probably go multi when Square realise that them bringing FF13 to the 360 is gonna get them a huge amount more sales than otherwise. Then what? Versus will be suddenly be poor and the only good thing left will be Kingdom Hearts? Dream on mate...

[Tacticity]

5.3 on IGN so xbox owners saying SE move to xbox is a good thing. There is deffantly allot of xbox people that dont understand Sh!t about Square's success before with Sony. The thing with producing games on two platforms is a big problem, there are three main reasons for this:

1. More Stress for developers
2. It costs more money.
3. It takes twice more people.

[Tony600]

In the end they will make more money.Why stress?If they can make more money?

[Tony600]

fanboys/girls...Maybe you are a fanboy/girl?

[Tacticity]

If you really wanna know I'll tell you yes I'm a fanboy and I dont give a sh!t what people say.

When your making a game for two platforms you will not always make more money. Final Fantasy VII has sold 9.8 million until today, yeah I know they made a PC version for it to but that was after a long time and it dident sell good at all. When Resident Evil 2 was made for the PS1 it sold 6 million copies. Final Fantasy X has sold 6.5 million copies until today. Yeah and the list goes on. PS officially has the most successful franchises ever brought to a console and that is a fact.

[Thatlalala]

Yup,funny how both those franchises are now on 360. Just STFU who cares what console a franchise is on. I might get FFXIII for my PS3 for lack of having to change disks, or I might get it for my 360. I don't know yet, I might just flip a coin in the end. When it comes down to it the 360, and PS3 are like Apples. Only one is a Washington Apple and the other is Fuji Apple. There different but both of them are still apple's. Anyone who throws number's around about how many unit's a game has sold is a fool. Some of the most commerically succesful games are mediocre IMO. Halo meh, GTA meh, Madden meh. See my point. A game is a game and the only thing that should matter is that you enjoy and have fun with what you pay for.

[Tony600]

Calm down clown,we speak about videogames and not about bread and water.

[Tacticity]

Just trying to say the fact.

[Tony600]

hahaha you made me laugh.

[Magic_The_Celt]

Meh, on one hand yes, you'v just gone and lost all self respect

and sold out for money, but hey your not losing anything but your soul right? LOL
and alienating a hardcore fanbase (thankfully i couldnt give a crap about sh*tty final fantasy)

on the other, no, because your just going to make more moneyz

[die_fiend]

In what way have they alienated their fan base? It's not their fault if their fanbase were a bunch of pathetic people who can't hack that it's gone multi is it? Those people are laughed at...capcom did it rockstar did it namco did it, so freakin what? It's hardly selling out when it just makes much more sense to make them for the one that sells the most copies of all games (including the former playstation ones) How did they sell out? Just cos they don't wanna release it on one console and lose a mint?

[Roukuko]

Die your so dumb its funny gotta love bots, they killed the fan base by making all these rpg 360 only. Its pretty funny to seeing how these games sell bad and get bad reviews not to mention sega rpg is the best rpg released this year. Also jrpgs will always sell more in japan its common sense, so for them to make 360 the focus of there games is the worst idea this gen. They should be making more wii games if they really care about install base that much. This has more to do with Microsofts wallet then anything else.

What the dumb bots and I mean you dont get is that there just destroying a gerne of games, I mean lr has slideshow issues thats just a joke man.

[Marius]

You had 60 percent of the fanboys for Final Fantasy starting to digg the grave for Square - Enix. Almost everyone got pissed and outraged when it was announced to Xbox, you have to be retarded not to understand that it was a bad move after all that negativity.

Only a few people were cheering, mainly the fans who had bought Xbox instead of PS3, wishing that the old FF series that they loved would come over to their new console. But when the Final Fantasy series has sold over 80 million, the userbase of 19 million to Xbox pales in comparison.

I think Square also gathered a lot of hatred by the way they announced this. Here you have a company that started showing off FFXIII for three years, since E305, as a Playstation title. Then half a year before release, they go "oh and we're also making this for Xbox 360 btw".

Rule number one, if you have millions of angry fans because of announcement like this, that is not a good sign. You don't want to make people angry. Especially if they're supposed to invest money in your product.

[die_fiend]

Metal Gear has sold twice as many in the US as in Japan. Same will happen here and since 360 dominates the states, it's a good move for Square

[Thatlalala]

I bought my 360 for RPG's, but the fact is Most JPRG's feel, Last gen.
Actually not just JRPG's most everything outta Japan feels dated. The great RPG's are Western developed. Mass Effect for example, One of the best RPG's on the 360, Walks all over "Blue Dragon" "Tales of Vesperia" "Lost Odyssey". You get my point. The whole JRPG genre is dieing if not already dead. Name one Triple A JRPG on this generation of consoles, No FFXII don't count.

[LethalToxins]

How many JRPGS reach AAA outside of the FF series? I'm talking about last get, too. In terms of AAA status, PS2 had FFX and FFXII, that's it. Persona 3 and DQ VIII were close, but miss that coveted 90 cutoff point. I'm just pointing this out because you can't say a genre is dying based on its AAA scores this gen when the only series that really gets AAA scores hasn't come out yet.

The truth of the matter is that the JRPG market is flooded by games with mediocre review scores. Some of this bashing is just because it's a 360 review and fanboys are just taking the cheapshot while they can. Some of it is because a 62 average on metacritic is just bad, bad, bad.

Imo, an 85 range average for a JRPG is AAA. Though I kind of see like this, if you're a fan of the genre itself, you don't need as high of a score for it to be AAA to you.

[Crazywhitie]

The only reason they Moved to Both Consoles is, Games don't sale on PS3 like the do on Xbox 360... Xbox 360 games a pirated and still out sale the PS3.. SE know to make this game the way they wanted it has to bring money back to them... Thats the reason way FF13 is coming to xbox 360

[xg-ei8ht]

I'd have to admit, sony should have done more with it's japanese market.

But i kinda think sony is using that time wisely.

Because Once ffversus hits japan, you'll see PS3 fever.

I'm also expecting very strong sales from some other ps3 japanese games.

[Reibooi]

To be honest I think Squares main mistake was using the Unreal Engine. Most of the complaints for the game stem from problems inherant to the Unreal Engine. Like Slowdown, Clipping issues, Screen Tearing etc. Almost all the games using the engine have these issues to some degree yes even Epic's. In my opinion it is a very sub par engine and it boggles my mind that devs continue to use it.

Now I'm not saying that The Last Remnant would have been perfect had it used a different engine because it certainly has it's game play problems as well but it would have certainly have been a better game.

[Fanboy Slaughter]

I went into this article thinking "Oh great, another flame-war topic about 'teh console warz'!"

But honestly, what I read was a well though-out article that was more or less lamenting the use of the Unreal Engine (which EVERYONE has the right to lament), than as to whether SE's support leaning towards the 360 was a mistake.

Not to mention, IMO anyway, there hasn't been a worthwhile JRPG since Dragon Quest 8, and that's only because I was on a bit of a nostalgia kick while playing it. Final Fantasy 12 was a joke and from what I've played of Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey, I think my old love for JRPG's is gonna stay just that...an old love.

As for WRPGs, Fallout 3 was the total sh!t and then some. First game I've devoted a 10-hour uninterrupted marathon to in a LONG time. It hooked me, and the closest thing to a JRPG that's got me hooked right now is Valkyria Chronicles, and it came from SEGA no less!

Was it really a mistake though? I think it has more to do with Japan trying to westernize their own developments than just making a bad game. They're trying to make a WRPG by using tried-and-true JRPG formulas. They just don't mesh well, at least no one's found a way to make it work well.

[Immortal Kaim]

Exactly, the use of the Unreal Engine coupled with a misconception that 'Western' gamers prefer a certain style of game is what the mistake is.

[The Lazy One]

moving to the 360 is not a mistake. Making crappy games for the 360 is a mistake.

A lot of these games are either great concepts that are executed poorly, or just bad concepts in general.

The 360 doesn't make good games bad, the developers make them bad.

[Acj2323]

Yeah, it seems most games that are coming out are floored in many ways, due to being rushed, dev's should spend the time to make there game different and exciting

[DevastationEve]

If Microsoft spent big money to get exclusives on EVERY title that you guys claim they do (and claim they will) here's the problem:

1: it's a BIG investment on their part to take on such a speculative position, as NO game is guaranteed to sell. save maybe Halo and MGS, lol.

2: there really isn't any way to put a price on a game being "bought out", except for maybe development costs.

3: would any of you guys be stupid enough to settle for that if you knew your game might have a chance to sell more? so you'd ask for more right?

4: companies/mergers like SquareEnix were born into an era where the quickest dollar is the best. if that means siding with enough consoles to cover the entire gaming market, then so be it.

5: in this scenario, Microsoft/Sony isn't gaining any exclusivity, so why would they spend money on it? so SquareEnix isn't benefiting from or being influenced by Microsoft/Sony at all. they just want to cash in on x360/PS3 audience, that's all.

6: Wii actually has exclusivity of one major SquareEnix game, though it was designed FOR a Nintendo audience anyway. so how much did THEY allegedly spend to get THAT going?

In the end, it's all bogus claims to think that Microsoft is buying out exclusives to make them multiplatform. It's more logical to view it as purely a financial decision.

[LethalToxins]

3: Dev costs are HUGE man. Dev teams love being able to make a game, without costs to them, and they're guaranteed to get money. In life, it usually takes money to make money. Especially from a business perspective. There's risk for reward. Eliminating costs so they gain an immediate profit is a very tempting thing, I'd imagine. Would you be stupid enough to turn down free money?

4: For the most part, that's right. However, in your dev cost scenario, your point here contradicts your third point. No dev costs mean the profit is immediate (quickest dollar, right?).

5: If MS lost Halo as an exclusive, people wouldn't have to buy their console to play it. You don't see how that would be advantageous to Sony?

I don't know if MS is paying or not, and likewise, neither do you. The GTAIV DLC deal, where MS dropped 50 MILLION is evidence that MS has indeed paid for something. That alone makes it logical to assume that at least some of the lost PS3 exclusives, were bought out.

[Jecht]

If you take a look at SE's actions, and words, leading up to the announcement of FFXIII going to the 360, it's pretty clear they were bought off.

Do you really think that SE are stupid enough to not pay attention to the 360's installed base up to until a week before that E3 announcement? Do you really think it was a "last minute decision"?

No, it wasn't. Microsoft saw the brand power of Final Fantasy. They are the ones that thought they could make a huge profit on FFXIII, and they paid SE for that chance. You only need to look at the PURPOSEFUL delay of the PS3's version around the rest of the world to know that there were backdoor deals being made. Now, because of the 360, PS3 fans that DO NOT live in Japan have to wait and additional few months more than what they would have for localization because MS paid SE for a simultaneous global release. And THAT'S what they want. It doesn't need to be exclusivity, because MS's only concern this gen has been to beat Sony by any means necessary.

They closed down studios to pay for exclusive DLC, IP's, and simultaneous releases just to take away ANY advantage the PS3 may have gained otherwise. It's all clear as day, and staring you right in the face.

[DevastationEve]

All good points, thanks for replying.

I won't deny that MS may just be going behind the scenes and striking up deals. But that's what all companies do. That's what gives them a reason to come to next month's meeting and stare at a few more charts.

I just don't see much out of taking on a speculative position like that. Microsoft can do more for x360 by just focusing on their console, and letting the developers decide what they're going to do with their games. Look at FFxiii: it's a game that really wasn't meant for x360 and now SquareEnix are going to take on the burden of making BOTH of their versions the best they can.

In my opinion, games should remain exclusive as much as possible. But it just may not be feasible for ALL games.

edit@Jecht:

I know man...it must be WRONG to want to beat Sony, huh;) There should never be any rivalry right? No competition is better competition right?

Prescriptions for fanboys: take 1000mg of STFU 4 times hourly until numbing sensation sets in and you are unable to speak.

[Jecht]

You're the one that thinks MS doesn't buy people off. Your sarcasm doesn't change the fact that you're drinking MS Kool-Aid.

Prescription for dumbasses: Use your brain.

[LethalToxins]

No problem. It's funny how much controversy the buying exclusives topic brings up. Personally, I don't care. It's just a strategy, really.

I agree that MS should focus more on their console. But the fact is they are focusing more on hurting Sony. The GTAIV DLC (yeah, using that again) is a good example of that. 50 million could have been used for a brand new game. I would have thought that would've made more sense than using it for DLC.

Both companies do things I don't understand from a business perspective. Why MS doesn't focus more on their console and why Sony doesn't at least pay to keep some of their exclusives is beyond me.

[DJ]

In order to gain an advantage over the competition. But paying off companies in order to purposefully delay or damage the quality of your competitor's software is simply underhanded and idiotic. It proves that Microsoft doesn't have any confidence in what it can achieve on its own, and has to resort to slimy tactics just to keep up.

Microsoft has done a lot of things to damage the PS3's reputation, such as publishing false Hardware Spec Comparisons and false information on individual components, such as Blu-ray. They're making multiplatform game demos exclusive to the 360, and even paying to delay the release of PS3 multiplats.

It's pretty hard to stay on Microsoft's side at this point. They're notorious for acting this way in every market they take part of.

[Jecht]

Bubbles for you dude. You hit it right on.

[Light Yagami]

SE = fail! Meet my notebook.

[Jecht]

My opinion is that SE should have stuck with what worked. If it wasn't broken, why did they try to fix it? The word amalgamation always means trouble. When you try to mix East and West, you're always disappointed because the end result is always a poor attempt.

SE should have just left things alone. Keep the JRPG style, keep the way they develop games, and if they wanted to distribute their titles on a platform whose installed base couldn't care less about their games, then that's their business.

SE just got greedy. Or rather, Wada got greedy. And now, it's already started to bite them in the ass. Western gamers may have disliked the complexity of JRPG gameplay mechanics and plots, but Western CRITICS always appreciated the depth and style of JRPG games, and that appreciation was always reflected in their reviews (which are meaningless anyway, but for some reason so many people think of them as being important) with high scores.

Changing the style to accommodate Western "Crow mentality" that favours flash and simplicity over substance and style dilutes the game, destroys JRPG style, and gives Western Critics a chance to crush JRPG's in their reviews, mirroring the dislike Western gamers have tended to show for JRPG's.

But, that's Enix for you. They've always favoured $$$ over Style, and Wada is the greedy man at the helm. Sakaguchi, although losing his touch for originality well before the merger, always wanted Squaresoft's games to be treated like they were his children. Games from Squaresoft had to be done right, and stayed true to what worked, or they weren't done at all. That may be a double-edged sword, but the Squaresoft of old would never have allowed a JRPG to get under a 6 out of 10 the way Last Remnant has. Disgraceful. Why SE ever listened to Microsoft about a game engine is beyond me.

[DevastationEve]

In other words, Mystwalker is a better company.

That's all you needed to say, bud.

And UE3 is an engine. Do you know what a game engine is? It's transparent and potentially unidentifiable from previous offerings in the hands of the right developers.

All Microsoft did was make a console that costed low enough for everyone to be able to afford High Def Gaming.

[Jecht]

Mystwalker sucks ass too. Did you NOT read "Sakaguchi lost touch with originality"? 360 JRPG's from Mystwalker have been ripoffs of better games.

And, UE3 has been surpassed. In the hands of the right developer, one could probably make a "HI-Def" (though the 360 isn't true hi-def, it's upscaled hi-def) using a N64, doesn't mean the engine isn't dated and useless when compared to what's available.

[DevastationEve]

x360 isn't high def? Tell that to subHD MGS4!

a word about upscaling:

PS3 has 256MB XDR dedicated to Cell + 256MB GDDR3 dedicated to RSX

total: 512MB

people say that RSX has access to both, but that's only partially true. Cell/RSX has been worked on in such a way that it could be considered a combined rendering array. So, RSX may be aided by Cell, which in turn uses that XDR pool. The memory is STILL hardwire programmed to be dedicated to their respectful processors.

x360 has 512MB GDDR3 shared between Xenon and Xenos + 10MB EDRAM dedicated to Xenos

total: 522MB

the 360 uses 10MB for its framebuffer, all other game data (textures, levels, sounds) are loaded into the shared memory. The framebuffer gives Xenos the bandwidth it needs to render scenes in tiles. The ideal resolution most 360 games aim for is 1280x720 with 4xMSAA. That can be later upscaled to 1080 via HANA.

It is PARAMOUNT to know that these specs do not guarantee that games will be rendered at the resolutions people quote. Developers make compromises in order to fit their entire game work load. Some have chose to run with less AA samples, others might drop to sub HD. Some might run a few pixels less than standard resolutions (like 1280x704 etc). Some might get stretched and pulled through up/down scaling.

proper definitions of...definition

subHD: less than 720p (MGS4 is 1024x768, but that's a hundred thousand pixels or so short of 1280x720)

HD: 720p, 1080i, 1080p

whatsonycallstrueHD: 1080p

X-HD: anything above 1080p

[Fanboy Slaughter]

For putting it into perspective by a technical standpoint, and even though I love my PS3, even I know that that extra 10MB EDRAM is what gives the 360 it's memory and graphical edge.

The PS3 reminds me a LOT of the Sega Saturn. The Sega Saturn was the first console to EVER utilize dual processors, and it threw devs for one hell of a loop. Most devs at the time could only utilize one of the two processors, resulting in an inferior game/port on a (from a tech standpoint), superior system.

Because tech-wise, the Saturn could've destroyed the PS1 had it not been so prohibitively engineered. And the PS3, when the time is allowed, can show it's muscle in big-budget games like Uncharted and MGS4, and coming-up KZ2. But in the end, for the everyday games that make up the majority of a console's inventory, the 360 will almost always come out on top in terms of graphical prowess.

[DJ]

"The ideal resolution most 360 games aim for is 1280x720 with 4xMSAA."

Wrong. A 1280x720 frame with 4xMSAA takes up 13 MB; the ED-RAM chip is only 10MB. This is why Epic Games (as well as many other developers) have complained about how hard it is to do Anti-aliasing and Frame Buffer functions on the 360; every frame has to be chopped up, sent to ED-RAM, and then pieced back together in main memory.

ED-RAM ends up eating into system memory and bandwidth, thus negating its very existence. This is why even current titles like Gears of War 2 only manage to do 720p resolution at 2xAA, and why titles like Halo 3 are actually below HD resolution. 620p with 4xAA fits perfectly within the ED-RAM's limits.

As for MGS4, I'm going to take Kojima's word that it's 720p native.

Now for the Sega Saturn topic, the Saturn actually had three processors. But the Saturn was designed to handle 2D graphics processing, and was originally dual-core. But once the Playstation was announced and praised for its 3D prowess, Sega panicked and patched in a third processing core to do 3D graphics. The Saturn was horribly designed AND weak; it didn't stand a chance against the PS1.

[DevastationEve]

It's not false, MGS4 is subHD. Beyond3D has a constantly updated list of games that they have experimented with to find out what resolutions and AA samples they run with.

And if you read my comment correctly, you would have come across the word IDEAL. Meaning that's what they shoot for. Not what they may turn out to be in the end (as you have pointed out with Gears and I have pointed out with MGS4).

But take Konami's word, that's fine with me.

BTW, 13 DOES fit into the 10MB EDRAM. It does it in 2 tiles, duh! That's why it's called tiled rendering! Either way, because I'm an x360 fan I have to be wrong, is that it?

Disagree all you want, but at the very least back them up with something that proves me wrong.

[Jecht]

You can use whatever technical specs you want, it doesn't change the fact that the 360 upscales to HD the same way a lot of tv's do, and the PS3 doesn't. And didn't I say that the 360 wasn't TRUE HD? Yep, I believe I did. Tell me, how many 360 games are in 1080p at 60FPS?

[gamfreak]

Not only terrible, it the worse mistake ever to happen on this generation. Hope the Squirenix guy learn their lesson and don't commit the same stupid mistake again....!!!!!

[Roukuko]

its bad but its not the worst thing this gen that belongs to dlc

[Jdoki]

SE moving to 360 is not a bad move.

Profit is what drives a company, and so moving multiplat is natural. Plus more profit means more money to invest which means better games.

My concern for SE is not that they have moved to multiplat, but they appear to have gone off the rails in other ways.

In the past every SE game was anticipated, and of high quality. Now they seem to be going for quantity over quality and seem intent on milking the FF franchise dry.

It's understandable to a certain extent. SE games have always had extremely long development times for the core franchises. They NEED to keep games coming to keep the coffers stocked.

They also seem obsessed with making the transition from a Japanese developer to a global developer. So far this feels simply like they are trying to smash Western gaming elements in to Eastern style settings.

To me, as a long time SE fan, they are losing relevance. No doubt FFXIII will be a graphical masterpiece, but after FFXII and other recent efforts I remain to be convinced until I see the game play.

[IntelligentAj]

Can someone explain to me how this is a bad move? For them they make more money by widening the scope of their sales, For gamers you get SE games on both consoles(hopefully without a quality deficit)

[cherrypie]

The Last Remnant is an innovative title, with excellent scope and battle mechanics.

Its only downfall (From the reviews) has been "characters" and "story", both being "too generic". Well, FFS.

I Think i'll go with FAMITSU's opinion of the game, being that THEY would be the experts on the matter; 37/40.

I've played it (at a buddies) and it looks fantastic. I'll be buying it too.

SE move to Xbox 360 has produced Great and Good games. There havent been a single "flop". Its only the bitter articles who are saying such nonsense.

[TheCagyDies]

Most of the people who are putting down The Last Remnant and Infinite Discovery probably never played the games and just used web sites' reviews... But low 6s and 5s are never going to stop me from getting some enjoyment from video games...

[heyheyhey]

maybe the transition would be bearable if the games they make as a result were any good... this is not the case

Square are limiting themselves witht he 360's hardware and storage capacity, and more importantly for them... all their games are bombing like ass right now... call me when an SE console game breaks a million

let's face it... it's not happening until they release a game on PS3... the 360 fanbase couldn't give two squirts a piss about JRPG and that's being reflected in sales

poor SE, i shall laugh when WKC comes out and shows you the error of your ways

[Eromu]

Square Enix will probably begin regretting their decision once Level-5 releases White Knight Chronicles and it sells well(being the first exclusive JRPG on PS3 not counting SRPGs).

[TheCagyDies]

people getting so worried that Final Fantasy XIII might flop because ID and TLR did, Square Enix has 11 production teams...
Production Team 11 did Infinite Discovery and Star Ocean 4
Production Team 2 did The Last Remnant
Production Team 1 and 4 does everything that is the Main Final Fantasy...

Here's the full list

Production team Headed by Notable game series
Square
1 Yoshinori Kitase Final Fantasy
2 Akitoshi Kawazu Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles
3 Hiromichi Tanaka Final Fantasy XI
4 Yasumi Matsuno Final Fantasy
5 Yusuke Hirata All Star Pro-Wrestling
6 Toshiro Tsuchida Front Mission
7 Takashi Tokita Hanjuku Hero
8 Koichi Ishii Mana
9 Akitoshi Kawazu Ivalice Alliance
Enix
10 Ari Miyake Dragon Quest
11 Yosuke Saito tri-Ace-developed games

[DJ]

The quality of every title from SE should be topnotch.

[SSJSubgeta]

This is a game studio in its own right and Enix nor Square own them.

The only thing SE has done is to publish games for Tri-Ace.

[DARKTRINITYxxx]

Hell yes bad move in my opinion. And i for one wont be buying thier games as they will prob be trash now thier supporting the mighty XFLOP.

[Tiberium]

think they put an effort into those games? watch FF13 be the best in the series.

[DJ]

Not only do they have a sorry lineup of games, they're catering to the wrong audience. Even Mistwalker hasn't been doing too well with their titles.

They need to start releasing titles specifically for the PS3 and start growing up. The most innovative RPG i've played this generation was Folklore, and the team behind that isn't even famous for RPGs.

[The Desperado]

ONLY PS3 MARCHES ON

360 has tried to branch into other genres like RPGs and HAS FAILED MISERABLY!!!!

PS3 has successfully made Sony's console the only one you need for FPSes, among everything else. 360 is useless!!!

[sleepbox]

MS should realize that Squenix is putting crap teams on the 360 titles

[DJ]

As a training ground for their rookie dev teams. I don't know how else to explain the huge amount of technical problems, let alone design decisions.

[Neo604]

the last remant = flop

[SprayandPreycom]

they probably saw that the ship was sinking and wanted to get onboard with the ship that isnt leaking ?? thats what i would do dont want to be swimming with the fishies... theres some big fish out there ...