The Last Of Us: Part 2 has been in many discussions lately. Let's discuss the potential conflicts in the game that have players divide.
Homophobia. It’s natural in people. Spread the awareness
It has nothing to do with that, sadly some people are so closed minded that instead using the capacity of listening others they go in full rampage and start yelling / screaming Free speech, LGBT Rules, liberate yourself , blah blah blah BS!, is funny how some groups begs for liberty of their rights for speech and this same people oppress others to not have a free speech. TLOU 2 from the very first trailer we all knew what there was going to be some lesbian theme into it and almost nobody went crazy about it, all TLOU fans just wanted to play the game including myself but not for these lesbian theme thing, just wanted to continue the story of Joel and Ellie , the cordyceps, and gameplay the main premises on why TLOU 1 was so damn good, but nope that didn't happened, ND retain the gameplay but they sure on purpose know how to pissed off every single TLOU fan outhere with its crappy story, most stupid move in gaming history by the devs regarding a game story imo, and seriously a very cheap one. I know you won't understand but this has nothing to do with homophobia, this is about a masterpiece video game from the first one to a horrendous bad taste with the second one, and in the sucks even more cause we had to wait so many years for this ?, oh well, the good thing we have now The Ghost of Tsushima to clean the bad taste of gaming the TLOU 2 left us. TLOT The last of Taste lol.
Bad taste? I'm don't know with you but I'm so glad that we get something different instead of the same old revenge story. They don't have to make another reminder of why the first are awesome if that's all they do then I wouldn't want a sequel. It's also all too easy to do more of the same especially when it worked so well the first time and I'm glad they take risks instead of treating TLOU like Uncharted.
Its a mixture of: 1) xbox fanboys, 2) homophobes, 3) conservatives, 4) and unfortunately, extreme right wing political organizations who use any matter involving strong passions as a means of recruiting members by installing their agents disguised as fans to spread their ideology. This is routinely done in sports stadiums in Europe. Nazis show up to support a team while mixing their support with hatful messages to lure in individuals whom are susceptible to their cause. Video games seem to be the latest sphere that shows promise for such organizations, its actually genius.
Broken story, broken characters, same gameplay, garbage controversies that don't belong in gaming.
Look when you say things such as "crappy story", "clean the bad taste out" "every single fan out there" it just comes across as really immature and angry. If you look at the game from an objective angle you will see there are many positives as well as negatives. There are equal amounts of people that enjoyed the game, they just get shouted down all the time with comments like "trash story" "trash game" and it leaves no room for discussion. Twitter and youtube is an awful place to say anything positive about the game and it's sad because there's room for discussion on both sides. Saying everyone who dislikes the game is "homophobic" is just as bad but two wrongs don't make a right. Everything's always a battle between everyone and there's no empathy which is actually what The Last Of Us 2 is all about ironically.
"but they sure on purpose know how to pissed off every single TLOU fan outhere" Right. That's why so many people who have actually played it and gave it a chance love the game.
Speak for yourself buddy. Huge fan of TLOU1. With TLOU2, I just have the maturity and mental capacity to see the game for what it was, a masterpiece.
Listed off Every single of TLOU fan? Well, I am a huge fan of this franchise and I think Part2 is freaking awesome. Definitely my personal GOTY. SO here it is. Pls DONT speak for everyone else. Speak for yourself ONLY. Peace out.
I find it somewhat amusing the lack of maturity on the part of the people who say things like "If you don't like it is because you're a homophobe" "You're a bigot" "You're not mature enough" Get off your high horse and your moral superiority. If you have to attack any disagreement with name-calling then you are everything you project onto others.
@S2Killinit "4) and unfortunately, extreme right wing political organizations who use any matter involving strong passions as a means of recruiting members by installing their agents disguised as fans to spread their ideology. This is routinely done in sports stadiums in Europe. Nazis show up to support a team while mixing their support with hatful messages to lure in individuals whom are susceptible to their cause. Video games seem to be the latest sphere that shows promise for such organizations, its actually genius." That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. In reality people are tired of the agenda from the otherside being push in all aspects of life. There are no "nazis" alive today.
@Good-Smurf Agreed; I think many people wanted the Ellie-Joel dream team again, but this is isn't that at all, and I'm very glad for it. I love how dark and brutal it is, and my second playthrough just made me appreciate it all even more. The risk paid off. Another slam dunk by Naughty Dog with this one.
If you honestly think that people who loved the first part and hated the second one like me are homophobic, then you should get back to the circus where you belong.
Some people don't even realize they are homophobic. I believe it's that for many, perhaps not you, and a lack of maturity for many others when it comes to story telling. Having a main character die in the second act of a play has been told for 100's of yrs. Gamers are more comic book literate than say novel readers. Nothing wrong with disliking a game because of its story. But there is something definitely wrong when people cry, threaten people lives and act as if Joel was a real person. To those people i say GROW THE F UP!
Sadly, some people never developed the ability to see things beyond black and white. You hate the story and people will automatically brand you as a homophobic, transphobic bigot despite your problems having nothing to do with those. You love the story and people will call you a mindless sheep and a deluded fanboy. Empathy and trying to understand and level with other people is out of the question. It reeks of mindless hate and tribalism which are the very things the story spoke of against.
@sampsonon Some people don't even realize they are jumping to absurd conclusions...
@sampsonon so what if they are?
The first game did amazing The DLC was praised Both reached universal acclaim with fans and critics So it’s really not the “homophobic” angle Neil just can’t write a good story and if you see the first games interviews with Neil and Bruce, Bruce calls story elements that got scrapped from the first game which Neil did with this one. (Talking about when Tess was a villain that hunted Joel for a year for revenge...seems familiar huh) https://www.reddit.com/r/Th... He even goes into defend Joel’s actions at the end looking at his point of view while Neil made him out to be a total full on shit pot we all should hate in the sequel. That’s just some of the many reasons
What qualifies you to tell a writer that they don't know how to write a story? Your boyfriend was brutalized in the first act of the game and your lack of maturity is unable to understand basic writing. Let me educate you on a formula that has been used in telling stories for centuries. 1. The introduction of the main character, in this case Ellie. People thought Joel was the main character after playing the first game because the story followed him in the first act. He was never the main character, Ellie was. Joel's role in the story was to introduce the main character and see her through his eyes. 2. Put the main character, Ellie, in the worst possible position, which usually means the mentor dies in front of the Protagonist. This part of a story is usually the hardest test for the protagonist, think empire strikes back and you get my point. Harrison Ford wanted Han to die to give Luke's journey more weight but Lucas went against the norm because he wanted to sell merchandise and also realized the impact it would have on young minds that one of their heroes dies. Lucas went against the norm in that sense. 3. The finale act which is redemption and or closure. To which we have not seen yet, even though the ending of the game has Ellie walking away from her past and the forgiving of Joel's ultimate sin, in her story, when Joel stopped her from her true destiny which was to save the world. This is basic stuff we are talking about here. It's ok not to like a story, but to say that Neil can't write is wrong and shows your lack of understanding basic writing. If they make the 3rd game, which i hope they do, that will be her sacrificing herself to save the rest of humanity. "My life would have meant something". The writing was fine, it was that some in the fan base lacked the maturity to understand basic writing. I am not surprised because of what audiences are being fed now a days when it comes to movies and games in general. People wanted a comic book story, which also uses the 3 act play formula like Stark sacrificing his life for all of humanity in End Game. Most times though these movies don't kill main characters in the second act. End Game didn't kill anyone in the second act and just went on to the 3rd act of redemption and or sacrifice. I hope in the future you look at the great story Neil made through this tried and true formula that the great writers have been using for centuries.
Yea exactly, why the F#@€ did "Neil Cuckmann" and the ND team address the ending of the first game and use that a plot point going forward? Goodness gracious, it's almost as if they wanted to stay true to the last of us universe. Curse Naughty Dog for that /s "while Neil made him out to be a total full on shit pot we all should hate in the sequel." I didn't get this feeling at all, not in the slightest, not one bit, but then again, i take a story for what it is, and understand that characters grow and develop over time after things happen to them. I see a lot of the negativity around this game stems from Joel's brutal death - if you don't under why this happened then maybe people should replay the first game to see what he did to some doctors, nurses and fireflies at the end of TLOU 1. TLOU 2 has a grey area no other game has COME CLOSE in dealing with and although i also hated Joel dying, tlou 2 still stays 100% true to the first game and actually elevates the first game to a certain degree as it addresses consequences to decisions made by characters in the first game. It is in my opinion the best sequel to a game, period.
nevermind. Missed the /s
"if you don't under why this happened then maybe people should replay the first game to see what he did to some doctors, nurses and fireflies at the end of TLOU 1" You mean after he was unarmed, trying to save a little girls life who had almost drowned yet decided to knock him out WHILE he was saving her. Took him into the hospital and stripped him of all his gear, weapons, supplies Was told that everything he was promised, his reward of getting Ellie to the hospital was bullshit. Only to tell him after that the girl he was travelled with was going to die because they were going to cut her open in HOPE of a cure, nothing 100% confirmed and they were doing it without telling Ellie. She thought she was going to wake back up and learn how to play the Guitar off Joel. After getting aggressive with that awful news, they then raised their guns to him and went to escort him without ANYTHING he came with, basically sending him out to die. OH BUT NO NO...tell me how I need to go back to replay the first game when you guys clearly didn't see what arseholes the Fireflies were to him and Ellie. They f***** him over and were going to kill a little girl to see IF they could create a cure and even then how would they mass produce it or know they would be fair with it. By the way, those doctors and nurses you could kill, some people did it by shooting them in the leg or throwing bricks/bottles off them. They gave us control and you could have said story wise he just wounded them, it depended on how you approached the ending, some managed to get through the Hospital without killing a lot. Jeez...
Almost no one had an issue with the gay themes though, so I'm unsure if you're trolling or just ill-informed?
That's a joke right? Have you seen the tweets Neil and the cast have been receiving? If that isn't homophobia, nothing is. https://twitter.com/Neil_Dr... Talk about being "ill-informed".
Lol how can you claim such thing?? And why are you so defensive? Respect people who have other opinion than you do.. People are free to do what they want, it's their choice, but don't come force me to believe and accept something I think is wrong.
I fully hear you, and you are entitled to your opinion. However, when someone says a game is shit, and their reasoning is poor, or there is no reasoning at all, and especially with TLOU 2 where there are numerous aspects to the story that can be unpacked, it's difficult to take people seriously. Also, the conversation around all the gay stuff is completely overblown in my opinion, none of that is really crucial to the story. Ellie is a great and complex character, despite her sexuality, for example.
Then explain why Left Behind DLC for the first game was loved by almost every fan of the original, despite being responsible for revealing Ellie's sexual orientation.
I don't care if all the characters was gay or trans in this game that doesn’t bother me what did is how this story was written and directed and they could of done so many different things with this universe and beautifully crafted characters with Joel and Ellie, but no we got a revenge plot we have seen a thousand times before learning us something we already know revenge is bad the circle of violence is bad blah blah....
Everything in nature is good...are you suggesting homophobia is good? Homophobia doesn't exist. There is no such thing as a person with excessive fear of homosexuals. Homophobia is a political term used to dehumanize people who do not agree with certain viewpoints. Same with transphobia, and any other group based phobia. They also serve to categorize groups of people and put them into social boxes. Similar to the strategy of communists.
If it was about your favorite character then Game of Thrones would have been a disastrous. If you like a character that doesn't mean he/she has to stay alive in the whole series.
No, that’s the scapegoat, it’s actually the horrible story.
You can GFY with this nonsense, you one-trick pony moron.
I don't agree that "Homophobia " is natural NO I think it is taught.
It isn't taught either. Nobody is told that sexual relationships with the same sex are bad...they don't need to as normally it isn't an occurrence. Contrary to popular opinion people are allowed to be disgusted by acts that disgust them. It doesn't make them hate anyone. Just like I find peanut butter disgusting or anyone having sexual relationships with toys, specifically men, I find things gross and avoid them. I find smoking gross and leave the room when someone is smoking. It's gross. There are things people find gross and same sex relations at one of the things people can find gross. Just like sexual relatiins with an alien species or animals. I won't even get to the psychology of it all as it's already out there for anyone to read up on.
RgR What are you talking about Homosexual relationship happen in nature all the time and Hell yes its taught OMG how many Churches and preachers have preach the Damnation of gay sex through out the centuries ? Doesn't sound to me like you find things disguisting as much as you just like being judgmental people. You dislike same sex relationships you dislike men using sex toys you dislike smoking you dislike peanut butter hell you don't even won't let ET come to earth and find love.
Its not a problem.
What's dividing the fanbase? Maturity
Honestly in a way you are very right. The game deals with some complex emotional themes. It takes emotional maturity to empathize, and a lot of people came out of the game mad that Ellie didn’t kill Abby. The people that couldn’t empathize in the end, the story didn’t connect.
Look at the world we live in right now. Not much empathy going around.
I actually empathize more with Abby than Ellie in the end. Abby lost quite a bit more and was able to move passed the hate and let go of the anger.
That's just a bad argument. Does someone more intelligent more easily see it as a good game? Or is being a mature 15-year old enough for your point? It's too vague, can't be qualified in the way you claim. You want to have a proper discussion, how about you give proper discussion points and try counter good points from the ones that don't like it in a "mature" manner? Half your responses, I see you grasping back to "you mad because they killed your boyfriend, Joel". Way to prove how mature the master race is, that likes TLOU2... The most divisive part of the story, in my humbe opinion, is how much or how little it grabbed hold of players. Were you fully open minded, not bothered (or didn't notice) lesser elements? Then you probably got quite involved with the story and maybe it ended up being more meaningful than the 1st game. Those of us that didn't quite experience the same "bond" were maybe less easy to forgive for Joel, or more distant from the characters, making it easier to see coincidences, less story elements or just flaws that bothered us more. In the end, it made for a less compelling experience or at least one not half as engaging as ND envisioned.
Yea pretty much this. Mostly immature fanboys who can’t grasp the depth and levels of the narrative.
@Baza - Thanks for proving my point. I dismantled the argument, gave fair counter arguments, called out previous immaturity from the accuser and gave an opinion on where the cause of the divide may lie, without insulting those that disagree. End result - more dislikes than likes and then your simple minded comment, how I'm immature, and lack comprehension of the deep story. No, you guys are so narrow minded, you couldn't see a blue pen in front of you, without calling it red. But hey keep on trucking guys, you know your opinion is the only correct one. You guys are beyond hopeless.
Playing again on NG+ hard and I'm liking the game even more. There's so much that I missed on my first play through. Some of the scenarios that I disliked the first time has completely changed my mind on 2nd run. I appreciate the design of the game more. That part where you're being attacked while upgrading your weapon? I planted 3 bomb traps and man it's so satisfying to hear and watch the traps go off followed by the aftermath results of missing limbs based on the direction of the blast. I thought the game would cheat and bypass the traps but it didn't.
"There's so much that I missed on my first play through." So much this. Not so much for just not taking my time and making sure I hear all the dialogue, but just subtle things that most developers don't even bother with. I'm so used to games spelling things out clearly, or just not caring to go in to detail. I played through twice and it wasn't until I saw someone's analysis video a few days ago where they pointed out that Abby was troubled with what she did. When you see her waking up through the game, it's clear it wasn't a good sleep and possibly had nightmares. That is, until she's saved by Lev and Yara. The next time you see her wake up, she does so calmly and she was ready to move on. Yes, she did tell Mel at one point she wasn't sleeping well, but at the time it felt like an empty filler line of dialogue. What'd Joel say to Ellie? Something about learning not to let people get her so riled up? So many times that would have applied.
Despite both with different background, upbringing, they're not the same people let alone age. We learn from life experiences and that's where both Ellie and Abby meet at a crosswalk on revenge. At first, I thought the story should end at the farm house with Dina, but after the great memories Joel and Ellie had together, it makes sense that Ellie had to continue her quest for Abby in hope that it would relieve her suffering.
I honestly believe if the leaks never came out people would be far less divided. Sure the game would still be divisive but the leaks and plot bullet points made the game seem so shallow and nothing at all what it’s really like. People had a whole month to cement the idea into their heads that they’d hate it and that Neil ruined the game, instead of giving the game an open minded and fair chance. So to me it mostly comes down to those who went in with an open mind, and enjoyed it and those that decided they hated before even buying it. Of coarse there are those that went in with an open mind and hated it or those who thought they’d hate it and loved it but those people are outliers.
I would of hated it even more!! At least with the leaks I knew what I was going into but I had to experience it for myself but I just didn’t like the story no matter how hard I tried
People would have hated it even more, if there werent no leaks. With the leaks, they at least prepared for the upcoming misery.
They created a game that went against traditional narrative structure and took the story in directions people were split on. Some just hatedbthat Joel died while some of the split is honestly people just displeasure in where the story went while some is pure hatred, homophobia and transphobia. The flip side is then some of the defenders started claiming anyone who didn't like the game was one of these and the whole discourse was just a mess. Some claimed if you didn't get it then your an idiot while others genuinely did not get it. I had a twitter thread with one guy who was quiet negative and wondering why out of curiosity we got into it and basically he claimed that anyone who murders is a murderer and can not be forgiven, which seemed an odd take. Go to twitter and you will see youselves the level of hate and vitriol by some people. Even people showing fan art are being shot down. It's bizarre. Niel said on the first game that all he wanted was players not to be ambivalent. He wanted players to feel something one way or the other. I think he landed it well enough. For the sequel he also said they are making some bold decisions that not everyone was going to like and said he understood that. In more recent interviews he said he knew some people would hate it but said criticism is good as helpful feedback and opens discussion but said he never guessed people would send death threats to the staff and their families. Gamespot and others also poked the nest when they had an article titles something like "Niel druckman has a message for the haters: fuck off" which of course people read as anyone who disliked the game where as the actual interview he's referring specifically to those that sent death threats.
Oh ,I dunno. Egos run amok. Too Many Chefs in the kitchen. Petty college (pretentiously woke now) arrogant activist-like attitude (that represents the studio as a whole). Bad look. Miss the old naughty dog.
I might agree with you here, but the way your comment is laid out...man...it's not a good look for you that's for sure. Imagine saying this in a mirror with a straight face.
TLOU 2 is Naughty Dog's best game.
People may or may not like the game, each has the right to find what they want. But this is different from the chase that the game is experiencing in some places. This is unacceptable and yes, it has a lot to do with homophobia and immaturity. Recalling that these attacks and general dissatisfaction started there in 2018, when the trailer with the kiss of Elie and Dina was revealed. The story and narrative argument, as well as the depressive theme of the game, for me does not support this division and the attacks; there are a lot of people anchoring in this argument, but in fact it is a great critic to the extremely current and progressive approaches to the game. I agree that some narrative elements could be better (like the beginning), but in general these problems pale with high overall quality of the narrative. It is innovative, unique, and to achieve something so avant-garde you have to break some rules. For me it is a game that, 10 years from now, will be remembered as a milestone and an evolution. It is not for our time, it is for tomorrow. Naughty Dog taking this risk in the AAA game is unthinkable in a market so focused on serving customers than creating an artistic product, with copyright lines, without creative limitations and connected to its time.
Closed minded people. Some not believing Ellie was the main character, some not believing it’s a story of revenge not love, some not believing the game will have sad moments, some not believing when Neil said “it’s not meant to be comfort food” as the first wasn’t either, some not believing that the game series takes place in a brutal world and instead enjoy it for narrative. But when people got the game and found out that they’ve been lying to themselves about what to expect and ignoring every pointer and description about what the game is prior to release. There you have the uproar. You should be mad at yourselves and not the games story. There’s been indicators and pointers about Joel’s existence in Part 2 since the original announcement trailer. Yes there’s characters I would have liked to see live, but death is an expectation in the world of TLoU. Part 1 had many main characters die, yet there’s uproar over a specific death in part 2 as if the guy was immortal. It was the perfect sequel
The poor introduction of new characters to only get rid of them later in the game. The poor quality of dialogue between the characters save for a few exceptions. The complete disregard to established characters and making them do stupid or say stupid things. The dumbing down of character depth by opting to center around political correctness instead. Make a character interesting by focusing on the actual person not his/her sexual preference and gender identity. They ruined Lev for me. He was such an interesting character and then go and make a political statement by making him all about his gender identity. And the faction that he belongs to they automatically dumbed it down to a hate intolerant group. Thankfully I can set that aside if they actually focus on him in the third installment. The removal of signature features like the multiplayer and unlockables from the first game. Quality of story is debatable but it's purely preference at this point. The game has some good qualities. The gameplay is vastly improved from the first game, which I'm currently replaying to get a better perspective than trusting my memory. Voice acting and graphics are phenomenal.
Joel and agenda
The "get woke go brokers" and trolls, that were not fans of the first, jumped in to stir up fans that didn't like the story. It's the oldest trick in the book. The fans turn on each other. One side, "you're a nazi" and the other, you're an antifa extremist." This happens when people protest in my country, not the nazi stuff, but similar principle. Sometimes it's cathartic to get caught up in the wave of WWE like behavior, but it is another thing not to be aware of it. Anyone that gets manipulated like this should do their societies a favor, and read more and engage in thinking activities. Mob mentality is the bane of society and the opposite of freedom/liberation. Lastly, Joel died too early. All things aside (and jokes) Fans of the game are really passionate about Joel's death and to be honest I didn't like it either, but, after almost 50 hrs of play time, my opinion stands, it is one of the best games I have ever played.
I think whats dividing opinion is age and possibly even nationality ,everyone my age I know loved the game and story ,but there's a snowflake generation age 20-28 that are more likely to be offended by anything everything ,i also think snowflakes are more prevalent in USA than the UK and Europe
Story was leaked. Some fans of the first game didn't like it. Others who never played the first one jumped on the bandwagon. But Naughty Dog is laughing all the way to the bank.
The fact that the hatred started long before anyone ever played the game should inform you about where the divisions started. I have never seen such a relentless barrage of negativity against a game as I saw when 'the kiss' trailer released. Many may well have genuinely held reservations about story etc., but there is no doubt in my mind that a large contingent were nothing more than bigots and it's quite easy to spot them when you see how baseless their rationale is when they try to justify themselves.
Simply an incredible game, I don't give two [email protected]@ks what anyone says.
Not wanting SJW agendas forced into their games.
Give it a rest with the Last of Us 2 articles already! Love it or hate it move on!
Tlou was my favourite ever game, completed it six times including multiple of grounded, got the platinum etc etc. Have completed tlou2 and I don't know what to think. Now on second play through. The story is gloriously told, as you'd expect from naughty dog, and I liked that they didn't really mess with the gameplay other than a slightly amended weapon list. The story takes you to places where you don't want to do what you have to do. There's a killing in a doorway that you have no option but to go through with. There's a fight where you have to go against somebody you have great affinity with. It's quite sobering and uncomfortable. The end fight.... As another end loomed in the water I wanted it to stop.... When it did I think there's an issue in the thought process as clearly Druckman feels the decision made is true to the character but by that point I'm not sure it is. It also feels like part of the game was missing. It felt like they should have gone together to find the 200 strong group Abby was looking for. I think at the end there's a feeling that there's more to tell..... Ellie's journey hasn't ended.....it feels like she needs to go on. It feels like there's something missing. Almost like part 3 should be released in a month to take it on, like a movie cut in half, I think I feel that there are questions left unresolved. I think perhaps they've tried to be slightly too clever with the story and motivations for the mass audience to understand.
The game was intended to be divisive. It's why they did what they did within the 1st 2 hours of gameplay. Druckmann wanted an internet bloodbath to take place. It's why he specifically talked so much about inclusiveness. If you want to divide a fanbase and be a hot topic bring your politics into entertainment. Everybody always fights about it.