Original The Last of Us Part 2 ending is better than what we actually got

Callum writes: The revealed original ending idea for The Last of Us Part 2 is better than the actual conclusion we got instead.

[anast]

No, Druckmann was right in going with the ending we got. It's clean and simple. The ending that was cut was clunky.

[senorfartcushion]

The ending we got is thematically incorrect.

Thematic incorrectness is cancer for a story.

[anast]

Give me a concrete example how it was thematically incorrect. I might change my mind.

[S2Killinit]

How so?

[Christopher]

***Bullshit, especially not in a post apocalyptic world. ***

Most notable post apocalyptic stories don't have happy endings for the protagonist. Typically others are aided in some way along their path, but in the end they tend to suffer and move on alone.

---

I disagree that a story of revenge would have been better than one of eventual heart ache, forgiveness, and moving on. Both are brutal, both show a loss of life, only one represents a brighter chance for a future.

Even if you prefer a story of revenge only, though, recognize that wasn't ND's goal and you should not assess the quality based on your preference of outcome but the quality in which they present their own story.

[senorfartcushion]

It's how they succeeded with the first game and failed with th story of the second.

😘

[-Foxtrot]

How?

Yes lets have Ellie slaughter everyone in her path to get her revenge, loose her fingers where she can't play the guitar anymore (the last big connection to Joel), have Dina leave her, see Tommy badly hurt where he struggles to walk and is half blind only for her in the LAST MOMENTS go "Gee. I shouldn't do this, revenge is bad"

Yeah. I don't think so, it's awful writing trying to get a message across where there's been no build up to it. Hell, Abby and Ellie don't even talk about Joel, there's no confrontation of "Why did you do this?" so both of them sees the other side of the story.

The main theme of her sparing Abby was so they could get this message across that she "doesn't want to loose everything" but she did anyway so what was the point? Least killing Abby he'd have gotten her revenge.

[Bwremjoe]

The pointlessness of it all IS what is good about the original ending.

[Christopher]

If Abby had been killed, then the whole purpose of the story would have been changed to just revenge and not what they were aiming for. Just because you give up on your revenge doesn't mean people forgive you for everything you did up to that point.

[ravens52]

It ended up being a story of redemption instead of revenge. To keep the faintest bit of humanity she had left. Abby spared Ellies life before, let's not forget that; twice if I'm not mistaken. It was a great ending, full circle.

[JackBNimble]

In the end after her great adventure Ellie gave up her family for revenge on Abby.
This is post apocalyptic, Ellie lost her kid and wife regardless, only to let Abby go. This is why the story doesn't make sense.

The story should have ended with her and her family at the farm.... and they lived happily ever after. But no, give everyone up for nothing at all.

Bullshit, especially not in a post apocalyptic world.

[generic-user-name]

Why do people conveniently forget Ellie tried to stop after killing a pregnant Mel? Then she stopped again until a vengeful Tommy came knocking and guilted her into going after her again.

"The main theme of her sparing Abby was so they could get this message across that she "doesn't want to loose everything" but she did anyway so what was the point?"

Why can't she go back to Dina? If Dina doesn't take her back then Jackson itself, her community will. And so what if she can't play the guitar anymore? Does that mean she loses her memories of him? She can't still watch cheesy 80s movies that they watched together? Take up wood carving which Joel was into?

I don't get where this notion comes from that Ellie lost everything when she has a life waiting for her that's better than 99% of the rest of humanity in that world.

[Charlieboy333]

@ Fox I agree with you 100%

@Chris 'just revenge' would have been perfectly fine. As you said, giving up on her revenge wouldn't change anything she did up to that point or make people forgive her.

So why not follow through on what started it all in first place!? The damage was done already...finish the damn job and get the payback.

And I don't want to hear that 'revenge is never ending' pussy bullshit from anyone. Abby got revenge on Joel for her father. Ellie could gave gotten revenge on Abby for Joel. End of story.

The 'message' was retarded and lazy, trying to come off as 'deep'. It ruined and lacked everything great from Part 1....that is the truth and I don't give a shit what anyone says.

[RNTody]

I think you missed the point of the ending. The point was that revenge had cost Abbey and Ellie everything. This wasn't about their catharsis or completion of their revenge. It was that by the end Ellie realised that nothing was going to fix how she felt or give her back what she lost, the absolute pointlessness of all the death and bloodshed and loss culminated in a moment where she physically could not continue with it anymore or bring herself to end it with her revenge. Abbey and Ellie just couldn't do it anymore. And by that point the idea was for the player to be so exhausted along with them by the idea of revenge that you accept it. Even the fruitlessness of the final mission to hunt Abbey felt like all Ellie had left by that point, all she was holding onto.

Love or hate the story, it certainly didn't fall into cliches or the obvious which would be Ellie and Abbey coming to an understanding. It just had to end.

I personally love the game for being so daring with its story.

[outsider1624]

"Yes lets have Ellie slaughter everyone in her path to get her revenge.."

I don't understand why people even bring this up. The killing everyone gameplay wise is just because its "videogame" if that makes any sense. You want a game to just walk across the country doing nothing but hide?
Even the ones that were killed (cutscene), it was because she had'nt any choice(atleast). Only one who actually got tortured was Nora..but even then all she did was tell where abby was and she wouldn't have been killed.

[Toecutter00]

Dina leaving and Ellie losing her fingers was a result of her path of revenge. She did not know or do these things prior to the third act. Also, Abby spared her life on more than one occasion. Ellie murdered all of her friends. Abby had just as much cause, if not more, for wanting her own revenge. Breaking the cycle of violence was the entire point of the game.

[DuckOnQuack35]

Jeez liberals have to try to find some fake deep message in everything.
Joel killed a guy that pulled a knife on him and was going to end the life of an innocent child. In doing so some dude girl gets some of her friends and brutally murders another girl's father figure, right in front of her eyes might I add. But oh no oh no Ellie can't kill the people that did that cuz then ellie is bad. Dumbest shit ever

[RNTody]

@DuckOnQuack35 Wow, you either don't remember the first game or you have an extremely limited narrative scope and played the second game half asleep. The surgeon pulled a knife on Joel because he barged into the room with a gun and it was obvious to anyone with half a brain cell that he was there to take Ellie. In the Fireflies' minds, she was their hope to save humanity. At this point Joel had killed dozens of Fireflies who genuinely believed they were saving the world with a cure. Joel didn't kill Abbey's father figure, he killed her actual father. This was the plot of The Last of Us 2, there is no fake deep message it's literally the point of the game : both sides had justified reasons to pursue revenge, and it cost them everything. What do you find hard to process about that?

This wasn't Taken with Liam Neeson. Ellie was justified just like Abbey was, but at some point you've got to accept that Ellie is not the hero in the story, and neither was Abbey. But they were certainly the villains from each other's points of view.

[anast]

Killing Abby would have flattened the story, which wouldn't have given us anything to talk about afterwards. All good art inspires dialogue and discussion, and ND has accomplished this with Last of Us Part 2.

[S2Killinit]

The fact that we are still talking about it, is why it was a good ending.

[TheEnigma313]

Abby actually grew on me by the end. I hated her friends though, they were annoying. I'm glad Elli didn't kill her. She's mentally screwed though going forward.

[raWfodog]

I totally understood Abby's motivation for wanting to get revenge on Joel. Many people hated what happened simply because they played through the first game as Joel and loved him. But he admitted that even before he met Ellie he and his brother killed innocent people to survive so he was not a 'good' guy per se. We understood his loss and pain though, so we sympathized with him. And we cheered him on when he went to save Ellie, killing people who were trying to find a cure for everyone. He even hid the truth from Ellie because he knew she would not have wanted that to happen. But he did not want to lose anyone else that he loved, and we didn't want him to lose anymore either. But when Abby came for him, he knew his time was up. We just hated how it went down. First him saving her and then she doing him like that. But that's what the need for revenge drove her to, and Ellie stopped herself from continuing the cycle.

[EvertonFC]

Drunkman had balls ripping Joel away from us like that but that's what made it great too.
We moan about rinse and repeat stories then moan when they take tough dicsions.
My head was all over the place emotionally with Abby but they both had similarities.
I found my 2nd play through even better once my emotions were in check and had time to digest it all.

[Charlieboy333]

Yeah dude, the problem with your story is that all the way through part 1 we only ever saw Joel try and help others and save people. The only people he killed were scumbags or people who were trying to kill him. Yet now we are supposed to buy it that he had a habit of just killing innocent people left and right. Why? Because Druckman made him 'say' this as a lazy way to try and create validity for his death in part 2? Bullshit.

Even the doctor who didn't move and instead stood there ready to attack with a scalpel after Joel told everyone to get away from Ellie ( because they were going to kill her for NO REASON...if you read the notes found in the hospital you would have seen that they had already tried but lacked the expertise and equipment to successfully create a vaccine!! ). He should have got the fuck out when told. Marlene should have given Ellie back as requested and avoided ALL of it ( knowing how pointless it all was to try making the vaccine again ).

But no, Joel is solely at fault now because we need a reaon for Abby to avenge her retarded father who couldn't follow instructions at gunpoint.

[RNTody]

Let's not also forget how daring Naughty Dog were to put you in the shoes of the person who killed Joel, and force you to play as her during moments like fighting Ellie. The game constantly put you in situations where you almost didn't want to progress with the story and I found it excellent. It's a rare game that actually makes you feel or be hesitant about what you're doing, whereas in any other revenge tale you wouldn't think, stop or pause for a second before you kill anyone and everyone. This game actually bothered to show you the other side and they weren't just mindless caricatures of villains, and that's what made the game unique. From their perspective, Ellie was the villain and she well took ownership of that role as the game went on. Morally interesting as a game, unlike most.

[DuckOnQuack35]

Exactly they try to force you into taking Abby's side but what Abby did was wrong and can never be justified. Her dad was willing to kill Joel and Ellie so wtf.

[anast]

@Charlie

Play part 1 again and you will understand that Joel wasn't a good guy. One example is that no "good" guy knows that signature interrogation technique. The character would have to be a seriously bad person to know how to get information like that.

[raWfodog]

@Charlieboy333

“Yeah dude, the problem with your story is that all the way through part 1 we only ever saw Joel try and help others and save people.”

I don’t believe you understood Joel’s character. He was not altruistically good or pure evil. He was a dad looking out for his own and doing what was necessary for him and people to survive. You make it sound like he was going out of his way to do nice things for people. That was never the case. At the same time, we hear about him and his brother harming innocents but we know it was not just to be evil. They were only doing what they thought they needed to do to survive, and that meant looking out for only themselves and taking from others.

“because they were going to kill her for NO REASON...if you read the notes found in the hospital you would have seen that they had already tried but lacked the expertise and equipment to successfully create a vaccine!!”

The doctors never had a test subject like Ellie so that’s why they had hope that they could produce a vaccine. All of their other efforts failed because they never ran across someone who had a natural immunity to the cordyceps fungus.

It’s okay to not like the story because it didn’t cater to your personal preferences, but to better understand people you should really try to place yourselves into their mindsets to understand their motivations

“But no, Joel is solely at fault now because we need a reaon for Abby to avenge her retarded father who couldn't follow instructions at gunpoint.”

No, of course Joel is not solely at fault. That’s the whole point of this revenge tale. It’s a vicious cycle where all parties are doing ‘bad’ things to each other in order to get the last hit in, per se. In Abby’s mind, she had the perfect reason to go after this stranger who killed her father. Do you think she played through the first game as Joel in order to understand his motivation? No, some random dude just killed the last bit of family that she had.

[RNTody]

@raWfodog Great comment. I can't believe that after all the plot points people had an issue with in The Last of Us 2, the basic character motivations have to actually be explained to this lot when it's the most unambiguous and well presented part of the early narrative. I must have missed the part in the ending of The Last of Us Part 1 where Joel was killing the evil child slavers who stole Ellie and not the Fireflies who desperately believed Ellie was the cure to save humanity.

If the game was too hard to understand for these folk they should watch the HBO series, even that made it exceptionally obvious that Joel was not the hero at the end.

[SyntheticForm]

Agreed; I like her too.

At some point people have to forgive each other or they just wind up in cycle of never ending senseless violence. I'd say all these people are trauma-laden at this point.

[Markdn]

Have you seen the state of the real world, people just can't let it lie can they

[ChasterMies]

I never hated Abby. But Ellie, damn, what’s wrong with you?

[anast]

Abby is cool and her combat animations were fun too.

[outsider1624]

Lol..i hated Nora and that jackass who spit on joel though. Owen and mel on the other hand...i felt bad for them.

[TheEnigma313]

I hated owen. He was a tool

[isarai]

{SPOILERS} How is a random encounter with a character you never met that just HAPPENS to be the parent of someone you kill a better ending? That ending would've not only trivialized the climax of the entire revenge arc, but also seems like an afterthought to meet the requirement of losing her fingers which has some significance.

[anast]

good point

[gold_drake]

this was exactly my issue with the story. like this random arse person just so happens to be someones father who just so happens to want revenge. lol.

[Inverno]

Yeah no, that one would've pissed me off even more. For me however the real ending is Ellie and JJ looking off into the sunset, everything after was unnecessary.

[andy85]

Disagree to be honest. It was clearly a tale if revenge, redemption and forgiveness. If she just kills her it defeats the object of what the whole story was about.

[Charlieboy333]

So it's fine for Abby to get her revenge but Ellie's is unresolved with a nice missing finger to always remind her. Redemption my ass....all we learned was that some people get revenge and pussies don't

[Si-Fly]

Team America fuck yeah

[Charlieboy333]

I'm South African not American and we live with danger and violence every day....we don't take shit.

[FunAndGun]

You sound insecure.

[Kiryu1992]

If ND left it up to the gamers I wonder how many would have chosen revenge ending by the end? I think it would have been a case study(only accounting the 1st play through since many who replay would want to see the other ending)

I never played the 2nd game. It has nothing to do with politics, feminism or killing of a main character. ND could have definitely handled how to tell the story it better and we can all agree with

For me the first game is simply perfect.

I also finished RDR2 once and replayed it and finished once John got with his family. In my gameplay he is alive with his family (I totally understand the choice R* made but I believe sometimes give the option to gamers and make it hard to achieve the so called happy ending) spec ops the line is one game that gives you the option

[dumahim]

I watched plenty of people on youtube playing through it and it'd be pretty mixed. There's people who didn't want to even fight and tried to avoid fighting as long as they could or even just died.

[Kiryu1992]

That in itself is reason enough to give the option to gamers IMO

[dumahim]

"That in itself is reason enough to give the option to gamers IMO"

The problem with that, as I pointed out elsewhere, is that if you give the player a story choice, then it puts the devs in a bind in regards to a sequel.

[Kiryu1992]

I understand your point but than if there are sequels developers can use the data to go with ending which was selected by majority

[outsider1624]

It would be awesome if , you know, in the next sequel, players are given a choice whether they killed abby ot not in the 2nd part and then the story continues based on your choice.

[senorfartcushion]

True.

It makes more sense to force the player to do one more kill. The original ending made Druckmann appear as though he didn't understand his own writing.

Ellie kills so many people that Abbie becomes less and less pertinent throughout the story. But with a lack of pertinence in The Last of Us universe, means certain death.

[Aaroncls7]

Abby >>> Ellie

That said, I think the ideal ending should've been a choice for the player. Spare Abby or ice her.

[anast]

Not sure why you got the downvote. This would have been cool, but the scene where Ellie decided to try to forgive Joel was too good to cut in my opinion.

[dumahim]

Allowing player to make a story choice screw things up for a sequel.

[RNTody]

I disagree, binary choices like this have been done to death before. We don't need multiple endings to our narratives unless we're playing RPGs. Naughty Dog told their story and I respect that.

[xenz]

For me, this story was amazing - and I liked the ending. Those who did not understand both Ellies and Abbys motivation probably lacks understanding of how mental health can change someone completly. When I see Foxtrots comment on this game, I laugh. Makes me wonder how he is in real life.

[CantThinkOfAUsername]

'If you dislike a story you lack the intelligence' logical fallacy.

[mkis007]

You just commited one yourself in overly simplifying his words to negate them.

[DuckOnQuack35]

He's probably not a pussy irl. Joel didn't even do anything bad to Abby anyway. He killed her dad in self defense ( he pulled a knife out on Joel) and to save a little girl that doesn't have a choice whether she lived or died. Being a father in think most men ( key word here) would've done the same thing

[poppatron]

Ellie became the villain, she was despicable by the end, I died in that final fight the first time because I didn’t want to kill Aggie. I hated Ellie by the final scene, she was grotesque and monstrous

[ravens52]

And she realized that, which is why she let Abbie live

[outsider1624]

Became a villain? Did she? I still empathized her more though

[Ironmike]

Best game I've ever played

[OhReginald]

Since ellie is a pacifist monk now, I don't expect her to kill anyone in the future. If they do decide to make her main character in part 3 she would have to be like batman lmfao. No kill rule.

[outsider1624]

This is exactly it. How the heck are they gonna create a part 3 without Ellie killing anyone. And tlou is ellie so without her is also pointless.

[FunAndGun]

Killing for survival is not the same as killing for revenge.

[MetroidFREAK21]

Nah, I like the ending we got

[Bathyj]

Terrible take
Can we summed up with I still hate Abby so much I want to kill her.

[Crows90]

The ending we got is your typical revenge gone bad with some remorse at the end. It doesn't do anything new or well.

The only thing it does well is completely eliminate all beloved characters of the IP.

[outsider1624]

"The only thing it does well is completely eliminate all beloved characters of the IP."

Well there's still Ellie, Bill, Dina, one eyed Tommy, the kid,

[jznrpg]

Stories are always subjective to each individual so what you actually got is a correct statement but “ what we got” will depend from person to person.

[Kekewei]

I actually hope Abby become the protagonist of TLOU3

[jarek98]

I’m probably in the vast minority of people that had a biggest issue with Ellie’s motivation, not Abbie’s. In general revenge doesn’t motivate me very much - not for a long haul at lest. I didn’t like what Abbie did, of course, but as soon as her history was revealed, I was able to accept it - especially that this story was concluded early in the game.
Building the whole game around Ellie’s revenge was too much for too long, though. How’s Ellie’s revenge was more justified than Abby’s? Because we know her longer and like her better? For me it wasn’t enough.
In this way, the ending left in the game was the only thing right with her story. Still, I stopped playing much sooner, because I couldn’t force my self to play as Ellie - I hate being forced - as player - to do things I completely disagree with….

[DuckOnQuack35]

Uh maybe because her and her friends brutally murdered someone very close to her for no justifiable reason. Oh you want to justify murdering someone like that because Joel killed her dad after he was going to kill a little girl that he came to love. And to add Abby's dad pulled a knife on Joel so realistically it was self defense.
You people must be women or liberals

[EmperorDalek]

People still defend TLOU2? You're in denial if you think the story was anything other than a mess.

[FunAndGun]

People still trash TLOU2? You're in denial if you think the story was anything other than a masterpiece.

[Bathyj]

Haha
I love how much this game makes people sook.

[EvertonFC]

@callum smith

In your opinion you think the other ending was better NOT "Original tlou pt2 ending is better than what we actually got"

[Bebedora]

Best would be if John woke up, drilled abby and made her pregnant. Would be a fitting ending for a sequel.