The Last of Us Part 2 proves gaming doesn’t know how to deal with muscular women

Polygon: Abby, a new character introduced in The Last of Us Part 2, does not fit the mold. Her face is anchored by a square jaw, which gives her visage a wider look — at least, compared to the heart-shaped face that defines most women in games. Perhaps most notably, Abby is buff. Your eyes are drawn to her chest and muscular arms, which, according to The Last of Us Part 2, she worked very hard across multiple years to beef up.

[_SilverHawk_]

"The Last of Us Part 2 proves gaming doesn’t know how to deal with women"

[Kaze88]

"The Last of Us Part 2 proves that subverting expectation and destroying old characters does not work in games either."

[Lore]

I see where Druckmann was going with it (he’s talented and good at what he does), this was just the absolute wrong title to go that route

[Redemption-64]

That is subjective at best. I personally found Part 2 far more enjoyable than the first, where by I was able to literally predict the ending of the game, after meeting Ellie. Also, there are many games where a main character is killed off or becomes the villain.

[dnAWE]

What expectations were subverted? And how were old characters destroyed?

[Flewid638]

Worked for me.

[dumahim]

@dnAWE
"What expectations were subverted? And how were old characters destroyed?"

Right?
- Joel lied to Ellie at the end of 1. Ellie finds out and it shatters her. Seems like a logical outcome to me.
- Joel kills a bunch of people in cold blood in the first game, including the doctor who could have created a cure for the entire world. Remnants of that group, including the daughter of that doctor, group up and kill Joel in revenge. Makes sense to me.
- Shattered and now an adult Ellie who now watched Joel get murdered after being tortured tries to round up to go kill them all in revenge. Makes sense again.

It seems people wanted more Joel and Ellie like the first game, but we knew they weren't going to just do the same thing over again. Other than playing another character for as much of the game as we did seems like the only thing that wasn't expected here.

Destroyed characters? Yeah, shit changes in 4-5 years. Especially when you've gone through the shit that Ellie did.

[gigzamillion]

Really cause according to critical acclaim and sales figures it looks like it worked out just fine despite your phony complaints.

[Harryvok]

Funny how we all see stories and characters differently to each other. While i absolutely hated what they did with Luke Skywalker in The Last Jedi, i thoroughly enjoyed TLOU2 and what they did with the characters.

[_LarZen_]

I don’t get this “love” for Joel and Ellie. We played them in one game and a short DLC. It’s not like we’ve played them in several games for years and years.

And the fact is that both of them deserved everything they got. Especially Joel.

[Bathyj]

"The Last of Us Part 2 proves children cry when you take their rattle"

[bouzebbal]

Tlou2 shows that having an arrogant idiot as a director can kill one of the best series of all time..

[Kaze88]

@dunahim and @dnAWE

"What expectations were subverted? And how were old characters destroyed?"

- Joel and Ellie relationship is shattered, that we agree on. Also add that on last flashback you can recall Ellie telling Joel, that they can try to fix their bonds.
- Joel has killed bunch of people and most of fireflies, he is also the most learned survivor of the apocalypse. He never trusted entirely anyone on the first game...still tells every random people his name...are you fking kidding me? That is just lazy writing.
- Abby is killing Dina and she goes "she is pregnant" and Abby goes "GOOD" but then stop since the child says once don't do it. Bamboozled she sounded so happy to kill her but doesn't and also after Ellie killing her friends does not even kill Ellie.
- Abby changes her 20 year commitment to fireflies etc. due to random people and then flip flops between whose side she is on.
- Shattered Ellie wants to kill everyone, yes. Even if she was the most against killing other people on the first one and she was ready to do that, so that she could give the world the cure (as you just described). Still I could see her being fueled with rage, but she goes killing basically EVERYONE and hundreds of people...all Abbys friends and then when she is finally found Abby (who killed Joel, destroyed Tommy, due to her Ellies family left her, got her fingers chewed) she still ends up not killing her because "I need to break the cycle"...then she should not even have left your family in the first place.

"doing the same thing over again" If you really think that the only way to continue would have been doing the same thing, then you have the same lack of imagination ass Druckmann himself. Also it is obvious that they tried really hard make people liking Abby by giving her more tools, better weapons, play fetch with dogs etc. it just backfired on them on so many levels. I never started to care for her, she was so inconsistent on so many levels. Only one who's commitment never changed or stayed believable was Joel's.

[Imalwaysright]

Yeah let's pretend that over the years gaming didn't provide great female characters and that a fair amount of them didn't become industry icons.

[RgR]

I would go as far as to say the majority of them became industry icons.

[thejigisup]

Ivy valentine: Extend, be still, dance, strangle, dont move!

[ginsunuva]

As long as they were sexualized

[rainslacker]

Who'd have thought that a game finally does something polygon rails on all the time about, and they still find something wrong with it.

[SyntheticForm]

Well, I've come to the conclusion that Polygon's aim is to be contrarian, no matter what. You could actively try to appease Polygon and they'd still take issue with something. You could check all their boxes and it wouldn't matter.

[rainslacker]

I've been called a contrarian at times, and I think sometimes I am. But, I generally don't keep trying to find things to dislike if a company satisfies what I criticize them over.

But, I do agree that I think Polygon tends to take whatever stance will get them hits. It's probably the only way they know how to write articles anymore.

[wwinterj]

Abby was done well I feel. The problem is I just didn't care all that much for the character. I liked her better in the end then at the start but that's not saying much.

[lelo2play]

Muscular woman have been in games for ages (Tomb Raider, Mortal Kombat, Resident Evil, Street Fighter, etc)... the problem with Last of Us Part 2 is that the game story is crap.

[BlackRaven85_1]

_Silverhawk_ *Points at Horizon: Zero Dawn, goes back to drinking coffee* 😒

[DrDeath]

Wrong

She was much to large. and it is physically unnattainable without steroids for a woman. Just was a little much. Its not doable

[AspiringProGenji]

Not really. She was ripped rather than having lots of muscle mass or volume. Not so exaggerated

[DrDeath]

Whe had huge muscle mass in most scenes lol. She said she can bench 185lbs. Thats elite bodybuilding status even at 190lb woman.

[bloop]

Whatever about her muscle mass (which seems very unrealistic for anyone to achieve in the middle of the apocalypse), it's her ability that irked me more. Joel was a bad mother f*cker, but we didn't see him nor anyone do anything on the same level as Abby. I actually started laughing when I first started using her hand to hand combat, practically ripping people's heads clean off their shoulders with her bare hands. As with everything these days, they decided to make a strong woman in the name of diversity but ridiculously over compensated to the point that it is actually ridiculous.

[Lore]

Speaking as somebody who has many acquaintances that are in the circle of the bodybuilding community (natural & steroid users), there is little chance that somebody living in an apocalypse without access to extensive calories and a strict food regimen per day would be able to sustain that size

[borneFROMblood]

@DrDeath i can be nitpicky about every single game.
How its impossible to climb flat surfaces in Breath of the Wild - 0/10
Mario has no motivation to stop cleaning toilets and save the princess - 0/10
Witchers were presented unrealistically in Witcher 3 and Gerald was a white male - 0/10
Bloodborne...okay ALMOST every game...
but what's the point to be mad over her muscular complexity if that does not ruin your enjoyment of the game, who cares if shes more buff than she should be, she wouldnt hit harder

[Gameseeker_Frampt]

@Lore (and everyone else trying to make this point)

"there is little chance that somebody living in an apocalypse without access to extensive calories and a strict food regimen." It's called agriculture. Look it up.

Seriously, The Last of Us took place 20 years after Outbreak Day and some idiots actually think people are just surviving on scavenged Twinkies.

[gums007]

Aspiringprogenji
Lol I'm sorry pal but you have no idea what you're talking about. I imagine most of people like you who are trying to defend this performance enhanced species has never worked out a day in their life.

[Kornholic]

Are you kidding? Her arms are like Chris Redfield's from Resident Evil 5, and those were very much ridiculed at the time for being unrealistic even for a man. The only difference is that Abby is not punching any boulders in this game.

[Baza]

Modeled after a real world women whom is not on steroids. Abby’s physic is designed to compliant her physical intensity.

[Ash01Live]

It's true her body is modeled after a real woman, and it's likely that she is natural, however the game designers have actually inflated her physique from the original model(which was lean and shapely)you can see in comparisons from the original Abby reveal trailer. She definitely has an enhanced body not attainable in a world with restricted calories and/or hormone support https://youtu.be/gTjZGlp0OQ...

[gums007]

Is this real world womans name Arnold?

[Shikoku]

Yeah no she isn't even big doofus what Abby looks like in th game is completely attainable by woman without roids it's doable.

[NVMGaiden]

Wrong

It is doable. My friends mom is that buff, she owns a gym she eats naturally and organically. It might not be obtainable for people who are financially struggling or have busy schedules, but if you obtain a certain level of opportunity it can be done. Maybe you feel it's unobtainable because for you as a man can't achieve it. By claiming women can't achieve that level of strength without drugs you are accusing the model they based her on of juicing. Borderline libel.

[rainslacker]

The start of abby's section of the game showed her walking through an area that was obviously not short on food. They raised their own livestock, grew their own fruits and vegetables, and they had sufficient training facilities, which it was established abby was serious about and religious about using.

[Kornholic]

Your friend's mom might be that buff but she's doing more than eating and lifting. Women simply do not have the testosterone to pull that off naturally. Your friend's mom, like Abby, is taking synthetic testosterone.

The actual woman Abby is based on isn't that big either. Look it up. Abby's physique was exaggerated for the game.

[Flewid638]

Very true. I live in the Fitness & Bodybuilding world. Adding steroids to her lore would've made sense given the kind of resources the WLF had.

A jacked woman on even a little bit of tren looks like a gymnast at best. But obviously anything beyond the Bikini category requires more roids. Had they insinuated this, it would've been more believable.

[Christopher]

This is so wrong, it's just sad.

"It’s 100%. Women gain the same percentage of muscle mass as men during strength training. In fact, women gain as much size and sometimes more strength than men [2]. The only difference is the starting point. Men start off with more muscle mass and more strength, but the relative increase in muscle size is the same between men and women.

Research on protein metabolism comes to the same conclusion. Women build just as much muscle protein after training and after meals as men. In fact, one study found that given the same level of muscle mass, women have a higher rate of muscle protein synthesis than men."

[ziggurcat]

"A jacked woman on even a little bit of tren looks like a gymnast at best."

Nope. I have a friend from High School who's a professional bodybuilder, and also in the military. She's larger than Abby. She ain't on 'roids, either.

[Kornholic]

@christopher you are talking about percentages, not actual mass. If you think women can get as big as men just by training and eating you are simply wrong. Biology doesn't work that way.

[smashman98]

Ahh yes the old I just don't like her because her being buff in a post apocalyptic world full of infected zombie like mushroom creatures. Is just too unbelievable.

[JackBNimble]

I agree , and how easily available would steroids be to obtain in a post apocalyptic world.
It just makes the story less believable.

[rainslacker]

Apparently there left behind all over the place on people's bathrooms.

Seriously though, the WLF was well equipped, and could have easily produced their own steroids or enhancement drugs. It's not like chemistry is that hard, and there were plenty of medical staff that could have gotten it done.

Thinking it ruins the story is just nitpicking, because her body shape was more representative of her obsession than anything else. Doesnt matter how she obtained it, only that she was willing to obtain it. It's not like people are complaining she learned how to be a solider, and a skilled fighter, to achieve the same thing.

[rainslacker]

I've been replaying it, and she was buff, but not so large as to need steroids to achieve that build. I know a couple women in real life who are as buff, or buffer, than abby, and if you accused them of using steroids they'd probably snap you in half, then bench press you

[Kornholic]

So that proves they are using steroids, then?

[rainslacker]

No. Because they are pretty into healthy lifestyles. neither of them would hurt a fly really.

[Snakefist30]

Even without steroids you need to eat a lot to attain that physique. In Last of Us universe where food is extremely limited it's impossible for Abby to attain that kind of physique.

[VerminSC]

You don’t think someone who is obsessed with turning their body into a weapon for 5 years, who lives literally right next to a gym, and who has a cafeteria with food access all the time couldn’t bulk like this?

I’ve personally known a couple women body builders and they get the size of Abby without steroids.

[shammgod]

You’re mad cause you’re a fat turd

[DEEBO]

Fuck her body, it's what she done in the game is what really got people mad.

If it was a rescue mission to save them not ruin their lives, Abby would have been loved.

[xer0]

I played the first game and i didn't feel particularly attached to Joel at all.
Abbys arc in the game was the most spectacular in my opinion.

The boss fights offered way more excitement.

[ABizzel1]

I agree with you completely on Abby's section being the best part of the game for me. Escaping from the island was amazing, the journey to the bridge was amazing, the bridge was amazing, the hotel was amazing, the hospital was amazing, return to the Island was amazing, and even the theatre fight was amazing.

I liked Joel, but I definitely didn't agree with his decisions in the game, and in the end, he got was he deserved. He had over 20 years of death, torture, and misery he caused to people and in a world where there are no heroes, you do not earn a hero's ending. When it happened it bothered me, but I realized it was more so because of Ellie being there. And when I found out why while playing with Abby I completely understood.

If anything The Last of Us Part 2 didn't prove people have a problem with muscular women, it proved that gamers and most people for that matter cannot remove their bias and many gamers simply want a straightforward story/plot, because jumping around in the story is too much for them to deal with.

Which is why I'm glad this game exists and does what it does. In time, it will be remembered as a game that pushed the medium forward in storytelling and how it affects the player, and it will allow other developers to eventually take more chances a few years from now instead of being forced to have an ABC level story that can only be recognized by games as good if the scripting is told well.

[rainslacker]

I really liked how you ended up doing some of the things you only heard ellie talking about happening during her section. Made it kind of fun to see the different viewpoints on what was actually happening, and helped build the idea that justice is in the eye of the beholder. When you were going after the sniper, you were into the moment, not thinking about who you were going after.

@abizzel

I'm gonna disagree on the theater fight. Was never into the cat and mouse thing. And ellie was too quick or turned around at just the right time too often for my taste.

Luckily you only had to have two hard sections with the last being fairly easy of that before it was over. You could also abuse the restart checkpoint option to make things more in your favor....which was great when you missed that headshot with limited ammo on the rest of the game

[ABizzel1]

@rainslacker

I've seen people play the Theater scene and STRUGGLE, but I think I enjoyed it because I went through it without an issue, because I played the entire game very stealthy, so I was instinctively picking up bottles and bricks and tossing them at people in fights to begin with so when I played that section I was well prepared lol.

[borneFROMblood]

the fact that you are mad, means that ND's story worked exactly as they wanted.
Bold and creative move that should be taken more in our shallow copy-pasted industry.
Kojima did it as well, and those games are excellent.

[Sunny_D]

Yeah I enjoyed it too. If they went the safe route, people would have been mad.

[smashman98]

Joel was a villain he doomed the whole world. When you see why Abby does what she did and how great of a person she is to people in her community. She's super sweet and kind and loves anime and dogs. I freaking loved abby

[rainslacker]

She was no saint, but she wasnt completely evil, and had a conscious. People seem to disregard the fact that the whole path of her story was trying to redeem herself for what she did. She had a guilty concious. Doesnt absolve her of her actions, but she she isnt the heartless monster that most game antagonists were.

If abby's path weren't explored, the story the way it was just wouldnt work. Itd be another pedestrian feel good story where the protagonist is justified in their actions, and we end the game with a satisfying conclusion.

The first game didbt and with a warm fuzzy ending. It was layered in meaning and implication. While joel did find his humanity again, this game points out that he supposedly doomed the human race to do so. Something that even ellie seemed to feel by him taking away that choice from her...which admittedly the fireflies.never gave her. But she wanted to forgive joel, because she understood why he did it, and she cared about him that much.

I really liked abby in the context of this game. She was a deeper character than ellie. They presented her well, and made you feel her plight. Maybe not the original, but her trying to be good again. I dont think I would have liked her as much if it was a standalone game with her only, and she did what she did. I wouldnt be too eager to play a game where I hunt a beloved character to murder him. Usually stories like that end with the two parties working together, or becoming friends.

[Hungryalpaca]

Joel didn’t doom shit. It was already a low chance it would work and he stopped the murder of a 14 year old CHILD who had no autonomy in the situation.

[smashman98]

@Hungryalpaca
The only chance of a cure was through Ellie's sacrifice this is stated in the game and by druckman himself. Is it low, probably but this is never stated. As he eliminated any hope of developing a cure by definition he doomed the world.

To be clear I'm not even saying I don't like Joel, if I were Joel and somebody I love were to be sacrificed I might and probably would do the same thing. I understand why he did what he did and I don't even disagree with it.

I understand why Abby did what she did.

I understand why Ellie wants revenge.

Players should be able to empathize with all these characters.

[Kornholic]

Joel was not the villain in that story. He was given two choices: 1. stop the lunatics from killing Ellie for no reason 2. to walk away. Joel did the right thing. You don't make vaccines by killing the person. The "cure" was a pipedream. It's very naive to think killing Ellie would have solved anything.

[averagejoe26]

What? Abby is loved by myself and millions of others. Just the salty haters are mad crying rivers.

[Hungryalpaca]

Ah yes the classic I like it so I MUST be right!

[jambola]

no polyon
it proves that you feel a certain way about it

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

Her body in a post apocalyptic setting is unrealistic. It is very hard for women to bulk up and maintain lean muscle mass. Where is she getting all the protein and surplus calories? It's shown that food is rationed and under controlled distribution in the WLF headquarters. She is also unrealistically strong compared to the other characters in the game. The amount of muscle she carrying would decrease her cardio too.

[Transporter47]

You know she could be juicing. Is not like steriods weren't invented when the game takes place. The first time i saw her that is where my brain went and i didn't really question it further as it makes sense to me. If people can find antibiotics, im pretty sure they can find juice in that world.

[Tacoboto]

I don't know why you'd be getting disagrees.

25 years after the apocalypse, the only reliable power source is a workbench light plugged into a surge protector, and you don't improve your abilities through experience but random Advil scattered along shelves and countertops.

In that same universe, it's impossible for a female member of an armed militia to indulge in 25 year old steroids? Lol

(And I severely doubt that the daughter of humanity's potential savior would be treated like any normal random WLF member)

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

Where is she going to get the roids from ? Steroids aren't as mass produced as antibiotics. Most people don't use, want or need steroids to live.

[VenomCarnage89]

@transporter47 I understand that it makes sense to you, but that might only be out of not understanding the reality of steroids in the first place. Steroids are not magic, they won't balloon you up in size nor will they keep you at that size, if you aren't eating a massive amount of protein every day. Without the calorie intake, there's nothing steroids can do to make you much larger because the mass actually has to come from somewhere. You need a huge protein intake so the body and the steroids can work to turn that into your newfound muscle

[Transporter47]

@VenomCarnage89
That may be true; although, there are plenty of wild animals such as, deer. I know venison meat is very high on protein, which is what would be used to get buff. All i am saying is that the possibility is there. I do believe that is likely for steroids to still be able to be found somewhere. It is not impossible.

[Tacoboto]

"Where is she going to get the roids from ? "

From the same place Ellie finds her faster-health-kit-using magic pills, duh. They were on the shelf below the random screws that turn into gun stabilizers.

[dragonrage00]

A lot of people don't seem to understand how gaining mass actually works. Roids don't do anything by themselves. You still need to work out regularly, and ingest large amounts of protein and carbs. So yes, her body is extremely unlikely to be attainable for a woman in an post apocalyptic setting.
You can make a case about Abby being a 1 in a 100000 case, and that's fine with me, I don't care. However, don't go around later saying X character is "unrealistically beautiful", thats just hipocrisy. You either have every character be average looking, or let the devs design their character however they want.

[Shikoku]

You can have good cardio and be big but she isn't even big. 🙄

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

She isn't big? She's described as "built like an oxen" in the game.

[Hungryalpaca]

Damn, the model she’s modelled after must suck at bodybuilding then.

[Transporter47]

There is plenty of data that can be found about how common steroids are in gym culture today. So, the probability of finding steroids by raiding a gym, a house, somewhere a body builder used to live is possible. Is it unlikely? Yes, but it possible. So, if she found enough juice in a house she raided, it is all she needs. I find it silly to not even think that as a possibility. I say go don't be so closed minded without actually researching on how common steroid use is used today. You can probably go to any gym and spot the steroid user.

[rainslacker]

True, but steroids do have a shelf life, so after 20 odd years, likely they would have to make their own. But the chemistry to make them isnt very complex

Otherwise I think people are over analyzing it, and focusing on a technicality which is irrelevant to why she was so buff.

[MetalGearsofWar]

You'd still need a calorie heavy diet.

[Shikoku]

Do any of you clowns actually workout or visit a gym? She isn't built like an ox its just a damn game people her freaking body model is a cross fit chick they don't get big you idiots they gains some muscle mass but it's not like she is China from the WWE jesus she is just fit and some woman have naturally higher levels of testosterone than others do.

[Hungryalpaca]

Yea. She’s just fit. That’s why she’s modeled after a BODY BUILDER.

[borneFROMblood]

You guys focus on such silly things
WHat next, if a character farts and you can't smell that, that's unrealistic yo.
Just enjoy the game lmao and move onto next after youre done with it.

[Sunny_D]

I mean look at the base camp she was living in though? Looks like they were well adapted to living as much of a normal life in the stadium home base. She even walked by a gym and kindergarten class. People were living normal lives for the most part.

[dumahim]

Gasoline being viable after 25 years in a post apocalyptic setting is unrealistic.
Plentiful ammunition after 25 years in a post apocalyptic setting is unrealistic.
Batteries still being viable after 25 years in a post apocalyptic setting is unrealistic.
Large office buildings missing most of their structural bits and still standing in a post apocalyptic setting is unrealistic.
Finding valuable supplies in places with traffic after 25 years in a post apocalyptic setting is unrealistic.
Being shot repeatedly and healing in seconds with a rag and some alcohol in a post apocalyptic setting is unrealistic.
Fish being alive in aquarium tanks after 25 years in a post apocalyptic setting is unrealistic.
on and on and on. It's a video game. Who cares?

Disclaimer: some of this can be explained away but there was no evidence in the game of systems in place to account for these things.

[rainslacker]

It's also showed that soilders preferential treatment for the supplies. They also get paid in some kind of credits for doing assignments, and have a kind of commissary where they can buy items or food if they want.

In any case, I wouldn't be surprised if the wlf could produce steroids or other performance enhancing drugs. It's not like its complex chemistry.

If she needed calories, then giraffe and zebra appear plentiful. Outside the livestock the wlf raised, wild life like deer, rabbit, and squirrel were all over the place. They also talked about having fish hatcheries, and when one was raised by the scars, they said they were just catching wild salmon and trout. They also showed chicken coops, and eggs are very high in protein. Its not like she needs to eat a whole cow every day to get her protein or carbs needed to bulk up

[DragonWarrior19]

Unrealistic in a fictional video game where a fungus turns people into zombies lol. Okay bud. She worked out and got strong, dedicated years of her life to revenge. It's 100% "realistic" but we are also talking about a video game. The "realistic" excuse is always a hilariously pathetic reach from people who haven't actually played the game but want to hate.

[nibblo]

She gets told to put back a burrito by her friends in the chow line which suggests that she has done it before and it's easy to take more food than allowed. I think her answer is that it is for someone else and I took that as a clue to how much food Abby eats. Also food seems plentiful at the WLF headquarters, when outside you see tonnes of food production which I think was put there on purpose to show you that food isn't a problem.

[dumahim]

"She gets told to put back a burrito by her friends in the chow line"

No. Manny grabbed two, she took one. Abby told Manny to put one back, but he then tells her it's for Mel who is coming along.

[thejigisup]

Chill man, she's big boneded

[chiefJohn117]

Sorry but muscular women don't look like that. It look like they took a man's body and put a female face on it rather than a muscular woman's body

[dumahim]

The body model is Colleen Fotsch. If anything, she looked even more muscular than Abby does.
https://www.redbullcontentp...

[gigzamillion]

No its not stop spreading lies and fake rumors.

[Transporter47]

Who else here thought she was juicing/steroids as soon as she was shown? In the setting and time, it made perfect sense to me that she was.

[AKS]

She has to be. Women cannot maintain that amount of excess muscle without some sort of "enhancement," and in addition to that her regular duties appear to be running around on patrols for miles carrying heavy weapons, which burns tons of calories. Infantry work and minimal sleep are not compatible with bodybuilding. Body builders can eat 6 to 8 small meals per day and need 8 to 10 hours of sleep. I seriously doubt that's happening in the WLF.

[Hungryalpaca]

Where’s she getting all the food and steroids needed for that body? Burritos ain’t gonna maintain that much mass and steroids are A - hard to come by and B - expire

[V3geta]

It also proves that people are fast to judge things before experiencing them (mostly).

[jbull]

Its just that muscular bodybuilding women are not attractive that's why, and to be honest even in tv programs not just games they do have woman who weight less than 140 pounds able to knock men to the ground with one punch its purely laughable as we know they do not have the strength and power.

[janus225]

Ok in a recent article! Abby body model is based a real woman gym coach.

https://n4g.com/news/235550...

[morganfell]

That girl was only the face model. Colleen Fotsch was the body model.
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/...

https://www.girlswithmuscle...

She is showing signs of cartilage growth which occurs when women take steroids and HGH.

[AKS]

Who is really juicing heavily. Go to a fitness forum and see if they think Colleen Fotsch obtained her physique naturally.

[PTMG]

Last of us 2 proves everyone gets salty over the most ridiculous things.

[Sonyslave3]

Dude Abby body is base off a real life female bodybuilder lol it a game people get over it.
And another thing Wolf hq had tons of food to support her diet.

[AKS]

Real life female bodybuilder who is juiced to the gills.

[Sunny_D]

That’s what I’m saying!! People forget the people on the WLF home base lived normal lives like the people in Jackson. She walked by a gym and a kindergarten class when you play her.

[Hungryalpaca]

You don’t get that ripped without complete dedication to JUST doing that. The bodies in AC Odyssey for example are far more realistic depictions of combat ready people. Abby looks like a body builder, not a fighter. She’s larger than most MMA women’s fighters are ffs.

She would need around 3000 - 3500 calories a day (higher for males) to maintain that, along with intense multi hour workouts, steroids, vitamins and intense protein intake of which usually comes from whey or other alternatives which is manufactured. All of which I find highly unbelievable in the post apocalypse. Body building is a luxury.

It’s just as ridiculous to have the GEARS gang juiced up the way they were.

[ChristopherJack]

@Hungryalpaca
You're thinking of just UFC where they don't even hire any female above featherweight. There are definitely larger women MMA fighters out there. Poor ladies HAVE to be under 66KG to compete, shame for those who are naturally taller & larger, they either have to starve themselves to an unhealthy fighting level or fight elsewhere for much less money.

[Nicknasty]

While gaming editors don’t know how to deal with muscular men. Funny hypocrisy

[DonDon3000]

Even if it was a male character, Abby is ridiculously, comically ripped. She looks as ridiculously stupidly large (in a post apocalyptic world where people are mostly starving) as Chris did in Resident Evil 5. He was so obviously nonsensically large in RE5 and it was noticably dumb. And he's male. Plus the way RE5 put a lot of emphasis on his punching ability/strength against Zombies was as laughable as Abby's comic-book level of cartoony ridiculous melee attacks/strength/one-hitter-qu itter "momentum" attacks against the Infected monsters of TLOU2. No matter the gender it was just overtly silly looking after looking at the characters of TLOU1 and the fact it's a post apocalyptic world. Just like Chris looked silly in RE5 after seeing him in RE1.

*Now with Abby's look out of the way*:

Furthermore, The world of TLOU2 felt far less apocalyptic despite the crumbling buildings. The massive amount of available ammo for your characters and enemies (despite 24 years of fighting), the fact that the WLF'S headquarters seemed to be unaffected by the apocalypse (despite being founded afterwards), which is conveniently written into the plot to explain why Abby is so ripped, or why a character like Owen has a top notch haircut even in a pandemic just totally took me out of the element. Also the massive increase in the amount of electricity visibly being available throughout seattle makes no sense as there are generatora set up for these broken down buildings. Makes no sense. Who would put them there after 20 years of no electricity (in the first game), only for electricity to miraculously become so widely available in abandoned buildings (i'm not including the inhabited WLF headquarters or even Jackson, which both at least have good excuses for being so modernized). I'm talking about those many abandoned buildings that still had electricity. Small gripes but I notice these things.

[Gameseeker_Frampt]

None of the abandoned buildings had outside electricity running to them though. There was either a generator which you started or, in the case of the workbenches, the light was hooked up to a battery. Also, I don't think you understand how crumbling buildings work if you are surprised by the good condition of the well-maintained WLF headquarters.

[sourOG]

I personally think giving females “male features” to imply strong women is the wrong way to go. I’m fully aware there are female body builders but for this story it was kinda distracting. I don’t love it or hate it, it just made me ask why? What is the point? I think Ellie fit the “strong woman” motif better than Abby did. I’m not done playing though, I just took over Abby again in the wolf compound.

[Sunny_D]

I mean why not? Does there need to be a point? I go to Walmart and see all sorts of creatures going about but that’s just how it is. People get mad when existing characters in any media are changed to a different race or sex. Kind of like Human Torch being black in the Fantastic 4 movie or Captain Marvel being a woman. But when they introduce a new character, it still becomes a problem?

[sourOG]

It’s not a random Walmart visit though, it’s a story. When it’s distracting there is a point. There is a purpose to draw attention. I’m just not sure what the point is. If the point was “she’s a strong woman” then I feel there are better ways to do it. Ellie is a good example.

I don’t know about the human torch thing sorry lol. I’m not talking about changing a character, she’s a new character. In a game where everything fits so well together her giant arms are just an odd distraction that takes you out of the story. At least in my view, I’m kind of used to it now but I just found it to be a strange design choice. I have absolutely no issue with women that lift irl. Maybe if we didn’t play as her it wouldn’t be as distracting, I dunno.

[Hungryalpaca]

When they’re setting up a realistic world, yes it does matter. In order for someone to get her size, they need more than just a 45 minute session and a steak.

There’s a reason old bodybuilders did not get anywhere near the size they do now. You need so many extra things to help build and maintain that amount of muscle and I highly doubt Abby has access to any of it in the post apocalypse.

Food obviously isn’t an issue, or vitamins, or protein, or time, or steroids so why the fuck is everyone fighting if resources are so abundant? Unless Abby is eating everything...

[RaiderNation]

What an idiotic writeup. All it proves is ND had a very specific character type it wanted to create and that's what they did. Their intention wasn't to accurately represent all muscular women. It was to create ONE muscular woman with a specific look and thats what they did. Its fiction people.

[Sunny_D]

Bam

[Atticus_finch]

There's simply no point of arguing with these people. I'm glad ND made the choices they did because they make sense in the story.
Its time to push gaming forward pass the cliche of dude takes on a army.

[Hungryalpaca]

So...just make it woman takes on army and..cliche is gone?

[Atticus_finch]

No dude, obviously that's too unrealistic.

[CrimsonWing69]

what the hell are these guys talking about!?

[Phils_Libra]

I had no issue with this new character, nor her appearance, but I do have an issue with the fact that you spend half the game playing as this new character (I know cause I’ve finished the game) and she was never named and/or featured in any of the previews, trailers, and even most reviews of this game before release. To me, the initial disservice to her character was committed by the developers themselves.

[Baza]

Sure I can see how Abby’s body is intimidating to scrawny gamers lol

[Atticus_finch]

Hahaha

[anast]

It's hard for dudes with a normal testosterone count to get like that. But I don't mind, Abby looked good and she's a savage in the game.

[RaiderNation]

I just find it funny that in a world full of clickers, stalkers, puss oozing bloaters and shamblers, THIS is the kind of crap people want to nitpick LOL.

[anast]

ikr, people seem to have a hard on to hate this game by any means necessary.

[RaiderNation]

@anast

That's ok, let em hate. Meanwhile the game will continue to break sales records and win GOTY awards, LOL!

[BillyG0AT]

What it proves is gaming is not the space for pushing (quite forcefully in this case) your SJW virtue signaling agenda on people. I'm here to enjoy peoples hard work and escape the stresses of adult life. I don't care about your personal political views just so you can say look at us aren't we amazing that we care.

[Atticus_finch]

Politics is everywhere, stop being a snowflake.

[BillyG0AT]

Snowflakes are exacly what I'm talking about there
/facepalm

[thebobbywhite2629]

i didnt even have to look to know this was written by polygon.

[Sunny_D]

That doesn’t mean anything. They gave the game one of the lower reviews despite whatever agenda you think they have.

[SaveFerris]

Who would win in a fight between Abby or Nadine from UC4?

[addictedtochaos]

The Gerudo say hi.

[Dragonopolis]

Plenty of regulated sports that don't allow "juicing" yet still find at least one ripped women. Women, as well as men, can have varying degrees of testosterone/estrogen levels that can give them characteristics associated with stereotypes of a man or women. For men lower test/higher estro could give a man some of the more positive associated health traits such as cardio and flexibility but "MIGHT" also aquire some of the physical traits not usually associated "As manly" such as low bone and body mass, soft glowing skin, low to some hair loss, lack of a deep voice, "man boobs" etc. Some women won't find these body traits/types attractive some don't care.....
Same with women... a woman with higher testosterone/lower estrogen could gain the benefits such as incease bone and muscle density also increased endurance. A woman "MIGHT" aquire physical traits/ that are not considered "womanly"; bone structure in areas of the body that are generally thicker in a man like the "chiseled jaw" or thicker neck etc...., decreased breast size and when exercising could give a male like chest, increase hair growth especially in areas where normally associated with males, deeper voice than associated with women, etc....

Of course we are all aware that there are guys who just can't handle any flaws they need that picture perfect estrogen women.

There are men and women who do naturally have higher levels of steroid and suffer none of the socially unacceptable traits that nature usually graces humans with.

However, to say that someone like Abby can't exist is simply ignorant and very incorrect statement.

Some have stated its not attractive and that's ok and, although some reasoning may be a bit pitiful, it's an opinion.

I've run in races against people of all body types and sex. I've seen body types like Abby on both men and women lol....yes passing me by.

But yes body mass does affect fighting skills and a skilled large in shape fighter would be hard for a lightweight fighter to overcome even with skill.

That's why man invented weapons to overcome the odds.

[Sprtn167]

Her real life model is obviously on steroids. People arguing the feasibility of abby being that huge just ignore the fact it's a video game lol. I get that it's somewhat grounded in a realistic logic of sorts, but at the end of the day it doesn't have to be perfectly air tight logic.

[dnAWE]

Urgh... this is all too simple.

Yes, her physique is a bit too large for the reality of the world they are in, but so is Ellie fighting off men twice her size, getting shot and patching herself up in the same 10 seconds. It's called suspension of disbelief.

Gamers know how to deal with women, but certain vocal sections of the group struggle to deal with it if it doesn't conform to Hollywood standards of sexualisation.
Don't panic though, there'll still be plenty of hot female gaming characters in the future. Gaming, like films, is escapist entertainment so men have big abs, women have big tits. This won't change just because developers are starting to develop more realistic standards from time to time too.

[Auron]

Who gives a shit if she looks like Ronnie Coleman!?
*Spoiler*
SHE KILLED JOEL! AND YOU HAVE TO PLAY AS HER AFTER THAT HAPPENES Thats what gamers are not ok with!
Oh Polygon I should of known... go ahead and try to turn it into some gamers are sexists bigots BS when ITS NOT!
Who even visits polygon? That site is trash.

[dnAWE]

OK, so she kills Joel. It made me hate her for a while. Whats wrong with playing as her for a section (big or small) of the game?

Bear in mind that Last of Us is my favourite game of all time and Joel is my favourite character of all time. So please, enlighten me. Whats the big deal with playing as Abby?

[Hungryalpaca]

You’re on the wrong site to dislike TLOU2. The fanboyism is strong here.

[FanboySpotter]

Lies i played shadow of tomb raider too. The chick got a muscle upgrade

[Gatsu]

"Gamers don't know how to deal with women."

[Question_Mark]

She’s built like a refrigerator.

[Magog]

It proves gamers are incels that have never touched a real woman

[MetalGearsofWar]

That's an outdated stereotype

[neomahi]

She's the Sara Conner of TLoU. Truth be told, it's not that so much as Naughty Dog made the mistake of making such a big fuss over the LGBTQ issue. Fans were already angry ND was getting political and thus figured Abby was trans, which she isn't, but ND set the scene so much so, that people just assumed, and you can't blame them, but in the end, she isn't. She's a female that's very much attracted to Owen, end of story. Dina is the fuss. The game makes this big fuss over Dina and Ellie and you learn Dina is just irresponsible and a manipulator that you'd have figured Ellie would've wised up and realized what was going on, but she was naive in the end. Dina wants a lesbian relationship with Ellie, but is carrying Jesse's baby..... What the hell!? I hated Dina's character, she was just really irresponsible and manipulative, worst Last of Us character ever created, I wanted an infected to get to her and kill her, I didn't was done with her once they hit Seattle.

[JokerBoy422]

Except I've seen lots of games handle muscular women just fine before. The hate around Abby isnt due to her muscle mass, its the awkward way Naughty Dog handled her character altogether.

[leejohnson222]

Bore off ffs

[gigzamillion]

No it proves certain people will make a big deal out of anything becasue its a Sony exclusive and they're jealous as hell. Whats the female character from Gears of War? I have to imagine shes no bean pole but of course no one concerned trolled over her.

[Hungryalpaca]

Jealous of what? Anyone can play the game dude.

[gigzamillion]

Not if they don't own a Playstation dude and many that like to complain about this game don't own one by choice.

[Harryvok]

While i didn't think it was realistic in that world that Abby would be that buff (hours a day in the gym and the amount of food she would have to eat), she worked for me as a character. I was more sympathetic to her than i was to Ellie by the end of the game.

[Platinum_k]

Watta bunch of fckin babies. Little do these idiots know, Abby is actually more admirable and mature than Ellie.

[rataranian]

I didnt buy this game nor have any interest in it or women like this.
...My money, my choice. ;)

[Sarcasm]

The twist in Last of us Part III is that it's in the same universe as God of War. She's Kratos real daughter, and in the next game we get to kill Ellie, Nathan Drake, Aloy, and any other PlayStation mascot. Simply brilliant Neil, you got us all!

[gums007]

*proves gaming doesn't know how to deal with muscular women on steroids.

There is only one way a woman gets that muscular. Lots of and lots of testosterone injections.

[ghostrider32]

All the things to criticize, and the biggest problem is that Abby being muscular. Must be some skinny folks that were offended.

[Flewid638]

Sadly we live in a world where people cant tell the difference between natural and roids.

You see this all the time on the super yolked up Instagram pages. lol.

[AK91]

Polygon huh? I’m out.

[Dom_Estos]

Remember the time when Chris Redfield showed up in RE5 with absolutely ridiculous arms? Yeah, everyone thought it was ridiculous for that back then, so fuck off with your agenda here. She was far too big. Unrealistically so. Besides, what the fuck was wrong with her during the flashbacks? She looked perfectly fine and athletic for a female protagonist, instead ND went too far by shoving steroid needles up her arse. It was off putting.

[DrDeath]

Because in the real world that body on a woman takes constant gym 10 hour gym time daily and massive amounts of steroids.

Anyone who lifts understands this. Lol

[Yusi-D-Jordan]

They doubled her muscle size between trailers and the actual game, and made her far less attractive than the actress playing her.

[the_loot_gamer]

I may get tons of dislike for this comment but i honestly enjoyed every part of this game..10/10

[shauzy]

samus is stronger, more buff and prettier, just saying

[Ashunderfire86]

You know Abby could have been Ronda Rousey voice and likeness. You know what Neil Druckmann you can include Ronda Rousey as Abby in the TV show Last of Us for season 2 on HBO.

[ManMarmalade]

Uhhhhhh..... Chun-Li??

[silenthillstrangler]

"The last of us 2 proves gaming is willing to push steroid abuse as exceptable"

[Bwremjoe]

“n=1 one proofs...”

...already wrong.

[Voltron84]

None of these muscular women have anything on Jill Valentine, Lara Croft, Cortana, Clare Redfield, all the women in dead or alive, princess peach etc..

[lellkay]

oh boy.

[_LarZen_]

Just a bunch of transphobic that need to sexualize women.

[kindi_boy]

I agree delete them.

[mastershredder]

All those years of Golden Axe playing with that buffed out Valkyrie not to mention countless strong female game-characters says you have no fing clue what audience you are talking to you flipping shallow-end narrow-sighted nitwit.

This new era of Naughty dog fans are like a weird breed of poorly planned and irrationally lose-lipped casual gamers (pretentious as f on the historical and technical side) that turned into elitist snobs.

Congratulations.

[Yodasfavoritesoda]

Lol this I’d just absurd. Gaming and the world don’t know how to deal with Neil ramming his far left agenda down our throats. I’m about 75% done with the gsme and I think the next mission I have to save the only active abortion clinic from some raging Christians .

[spambot0815]

last of us 2 proves that people need to shut up when the order 1887 is just 8 hours long. ;-)

[agnosticgamer]

A tyranny isn't biologically a woman. It's a pretend woman.

[rlow1]

Okay, I'm glad the Last of us has done well. On N4G a ton of articles have submitted and approved. I also understand that this game controversy gets people talking....... What's ironic to me, this community flags other Articles for being old news or redundant but the Last of Us gets a pass. How is it that so many of these articles and reviews get approved when far less content gets flagged for re treading old ground? Why the disparity?

[AmUnRa]

Onbelievable...a whole shit storm for a fictional woman in a game and that woman looks very musculair.....People have to much time on theyr hands, Its a game....not reality....😉

[Germaximus]

lol I loved how buff she is and how much more of a badass than Ellie she is. It's a great contrast.

[m2stech]

I disagree it's actually a perfect depiction, in the apocalypse there are no doctors to supervise a person's hormonal treatments so things can grow out of proportions!

[Knightofelemia]

So she has muscles and a flat chest meh no different then female body builders except some female body builders go under the knife to make their chest bigger. Abby lives in a post apocalyptic era world and I doubt there is a plastic surgeon who is a live to work on her chest.

[fitofficial]

Well, good news for the folks that don't like her is that if the trend continues she'll get her brains bashed in about six or seven years.