Why Hating Abby is Justified

The Last of Us Part II has released and the reception towards the game has been alarming. With massive swinging opinions about the title is a prime example of terrible storytelling, SJW propaganda, or a true masterpiece. With so many varied opinions but one topic remains predominant, how lousy Abby is. A character so poorly introduced and executed that her entire personality was established before knowing anything about her.

[Adexus]

Hated her in the beginning, really liked her by the end.

[KyRo]

Without giving anything away, After literally witnessing what she just did about 5 minutes ago, I'll be impressed if they can make me like her by the end.

I'm angry just seeing her face right now 😂

[LoveSpuds]

I'll be fascinated to see how you feel at the end, I personally couldn't believe how effectively ND played with my emotions and by the time the end credits rolled around, I felt truly satisfied by the story arc. Hope you enjoy it squire.

[JustInTlME]

That’s what everyone that plays the game experiences. We all hate her, we all say we will never like her, then you play the game, and the game changes that. People directing all the blind hate don’t play the game, it’s that simple.

[TheKingKratos]

Keep playing you will understand why she did this and maybe by the end you like her like i and many do now

ND played me good and by the end i was full of emotions but one thing is clear that i love this game so much

I need to think more about this because i don't want to rush and say that it's my favorite game ever yet

[Lord_Sloth]

I had the same feeling going in but by the end of the game I ended up liking her a lot actually. She's probably my favorite character in the game by the end of day 3.

[rainslacker]

Yeah, she was easy to hate after that scene. It seemed very cold blooded, and brutal. Even her companions didn't think that the torturing was justified.

But, and I'll say this without trying to spoil anything....but read on at your own peril.....

****potential non-specific spoiler ahead****

as the game progresses, you start to see a lot of similarities between Ellie and Abby, and IMO, Ellie becomes worse than Abby by the end.

@LoveSpuds

I was satisfied with the overall narrative, and even found it quite a good way to approach the antagonist/protagonist paradigm, but found the resolution a bit disappointing...or at least severely lacking in narrative closure due to lack of exposition to understand why that resolution was reached.

[Yui_Suzumiya]

You'll get used to it after playing her for 10 or more hours 😂

[mandingo]

“That’s what everyone says.” No that’s what no one has said

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

Abby is a badass.

[ABizzel1]

I didn't read or see any of the spoilers, but when I first started playing I already had a feeling so I jumped off the cliff in the game just in case. And low and behold, she did what she did, and honestly, it didn't bother me as much that it happened, I was more angry and annoyed because it happened in front of Ellie who represented innocence in the first game.

But by the end of the game, I understood her completely.

For anyone who wants to hear The Actors and Neil discuss this game, go to Kinda Funny for a spoilercast. It's a great listen.

[goldwyncq]

Same. Was actually rooting for her by the end.

[Ceaser9857361]

Same here Adexus.
The game was to make you feel emotional, depressed, hurt, and not fun and i feel ND did just that.
Abby had her reasons with what she did. And everyone is so quick to judge her. What i like about this game the characters both Ellie and Abby, how this revenge and hate consumed them but also how they found hope and love.

[Adexus]

Agreed, they absolutely nailed it for me, loved it, still thinking about it days later.

[SyntheticForm]

Abby's story is just as compelling as anyone else's. Really enjoying playing as Abby. Some of the best moments of the game playing as her, imo.

[neutralgamer1992]

All these stealth disagrees are truly sad most disagreeing haven't even played the game

[-Foxtrot]

She's an awful character

One scene that separates Ellie and Abby, showing that they are not the same at all

SPOILERS

...

Ellie: Kills a woman in self defence that she didn't know was pregnant, feels disgusted in herself and is almost sick while having a major panic attack.

Abby: Is about to kill Dina, Ellie tells her she's pregnant and the first thing Abby says with a sadistic look on her face...."Good"

[TheKingKratos]

Didn't come to your mind that Abby said this because Ellie just killed one of her pregnant friends and she thought to her self that Ellie killed her in cold blood seeing that Mel had a big belly while Dina don't yet

Abby was blinded by revenge that Ellie is cold killer who didn't care that Mel with *the very big belly* was pregnant she wasn't there to see what happened ... why should she care or even believe that Dina is pregnant and she just killed the only person Abby ever loved as well at the same time ... i fully understand where Abby is coming from with this

See this is why i can't take you seriously ... you are soo blinded by your hate that you can't take a few minutes to think about what is going on.. you just want to hate the game

[Ceaser9857361]

Thanks Kingkratos
You explained it better

[Furesis]

I just had no interest in playing her that's all. Was not having a good time playing as her and the fact that it was like half the game with her made it bad and unbearable for me. I see what they were trying to do but i think it didn't work with most people. She did have couple good scenes not gonna lie but personally she could have just stayed as a side character.
If you enjoyed her, good for you
And one more thing: buying a 70 euro game thinking i'll be playing as ellie the whole way (they never said we play as abby) only to spend half the game playing someone i don't want to. Kinda not cool imho

[lellkay]

Absolutely agree with all of this.

[RememberThe357]

I've been going a little hard at haters but I think I agree too. Abby sucks. I actually don't really mind her as a character, I just don't want to play as her. At all. I want to play as Ellie and go through her story and her evolution, fk everyone else at this point. This whole multiple protagonist thing devs have started doing is not sitting well with me. It just takes me out of the game completely and it doesn't seem to add the same kind of layers it does in TV shows and movies. Still a dope ass game though.

[CorndogBurglar]

@RememberThe357

"This whole multiple protagonist thing devs have started doing is not sitting well with me."

Games have been doing this for a long time though. This certainly isn't anything new. Kojima did it with Metal Gear Solid 2. Halo 2 did it by making you play half the game as the alien guy. Again, nothing new.

In fact, aside from Last of Us 2, I can't really think of any games recently that did this also.

[bloop]

@Furesis: Whatever about spending €70 to play as a character it seems absolutely no one cares for, I feel more burned for other reasons. The trailer that first revealed Joel, "you didn't think I'd let you do this on your own, did you?"............ I felt the start of the game was like getting stabbed in the back, but getting to that scene in the game felt like they were twisting the knife 😂 Man, I'm so disappointed with the story in this game, which is a shame as everything else about it is on another level.

[RememberThe357]

@corndog: Yeah your right, it really isn't that common, I was thinking of GTA5 and DMC5, and even Lost Legacy in a sense. DMC5 especially seemed to suffer from a lack of focus and I found myself just not caring about the game at all. GTA5 and Lost Legacy both are amazing games but I felt like neither story connected as well as they could have by the end.

[Z501]

"thinking i'll be playing as ellie the whole way"

Who's fault is that?

I thought Metal Gear Solid 2 already taught people this.

[aconnellan]

“Who’s fault is that?”

Naughty Dog’s - specifically, Neil Druckmann.

“But it was creative director Neil Druckmann who took a moment before saying that, ‘Ellie is the only playable character in the game.’”

https://me.ign.com/en/ps4/1...

Don’t know about you, but that sets up some expectations for some

[TechnoGoat]

aconnellan obiously wasn't around for the launch of the first game... They did the same thing. "ellie is not playable"

[Imalwaysright]

aconnellan

That and reviewers not being allowed to talk about Abby's side of the storyline.

[Kavorklestein]

Yeah I am shocked they didn't just tell us we will be playing like half the game from a different character's perspective.
Or that the story will be told from more than one point of view or something.

The game is a marvel technically speaking, but I'm not happy with them splitting the attention off the People and characters we actually care about for such a big part of the game.

[DragonWarrior19]

I'm currently playing as her now, haven't finished yet though. So far I'm resisting liking her character even though they are doing an amazing job with telling her story and I love her playstyle from the weapons to just the pure brutality.

Also to your lost point the "they never said we would play as Abby" you are being kinda harsh. They never said we would play as Ellie in the first game, you didn't complain about that and that was a good chunk of the game. They also gave a pretty massive hint in the beginning of showing the game that there will be a double narrative with this game. But this hate reminds me of Halo 2 all over again when people were trashing that because you played as the Arbiter. To me this game definitely beats the first game in the gameplay, making what we loved about the first game and making it even better but the story is marginally lesser to the first but still fantastic in every way.

[OpenGL]

They never said you play as Ellie in the first game, you probably complained about that too huh?

[Furesis]

Nope. I liked ellie that's the difference. Ellie was with us the whole time, it made sense in the story and it was only for couple hours mind you.
They tried to do the same here with the switch but it was way more drastic of a switch and took too long to get over with. Once again MY opinion i don't understand why some of u have to get so passive aggressive about it. Joel and Ellie were our homies from the first game. I don't want to play as anyone else, that's it.
But that's just me.

[Imalwaysright]

Wich is irrelevant unless they said that Joel was the only playable character. Did they?

[Mr_Writer85]

They never said you'd play the whole game as Ellie either, you don't even play as Joel in the whole of the first game, so if you're expectations were wrong to start with, that's on you.

@corndog
The first TLOU and GTA 5?

@aconnellan
From someone known for misdirection?

Again if you're not smart enough to take anything with a pinch of salt, that's your failing.

[Deeloc]

Every time I play her for a few then switch to play a different game. I have no interest in her story.

[NapalmSanctuary]

I thoroughly enjoyed getting Abby killed. Especially by the infected. The bridge sniper section was pretty awesome too. I hate that bitch.

[cell989]

Thank you!! Finally someone said it right!!! I feel cheated not knowing I’d be playing as her for half the game, it felt so forced and out of touch. They took my money making me believe I’d be playing as Ellie, joke’s on me

[Bruh]

I liked playing as her cause the levels ND gave her were amazing and really where I enjoyed the horror of the game the most. I felt her story was all of the place though and written poorly. But man that forest level, my favorite level among both games, it was horrifying

[TechnoGoat]

Abby is the best part of the game.

[TheLigX]

Did you play Metal Gear Solid 2? This has been done before.

[cell989]

I did and in that game, you don’t play as Raiden, a vicious sadistic monster who killed Snake earlier in the game, and now has you trying to sympathize with him

[Hungryalpaca]

I’m with you. I did not like playing as her at all. I did not care about who she was before what she did. Then trying to get me to like her by showing she has “friends” and “Family” and “Doggos” and showing she can care about people and risk herself just did not work. I didn’t care.

Everyone has friends, family and connections. I kinda assume that with every person I kill in a game. Making me go through all that with a character I dislike felt like I was wasting my time. Showing me obvious human social behaviours just wasn’t enough.

My issue is the way t he narrative is pieced together. Had they have you play as Abby, let us get to know her and understand and sympathize with her but keep the Joel sections until the VERY END of her play through would have been far more effective. It would make the players (provided she’s written right) feel conflicted about her after caring.

But her first impression just made me hate her the whole game. Showing she’s human isn’t enough for me to “forgive” her. Plus her dad was going to murder a 14 year old girl over an operation/cure that likely would have failed anyway so I didn’t really care when he died. So if I don’t care about what she cares about, I don’t care about her.

[v_eno_m]

Well said Furesis

[dnAWE]

Let's say they took out Abby entirely, bar the initial flashback sequence of her as a teenager. This means....
TLOU1: approx 10 hours long.
TLOU2: approx 15 hours long.
Which means you're getting a game as long as the original except this has more, varied enemies, expanded combat, crafting, exploration, movement, animation, graphics, sound, etc...+5 hours more Ellie game time!

But what do Naughty Dog do? They give you an extra 10 hours of game time as Abby to see things from her perspective. How is that a bad thing at all? it complements the story and forces you as the player to re-evaluate why you hate this character. It's a stroke of genius.

ND could have easily taken Abby's entire segment out of the game, slapped a price on it and sold it as DLC six months down the line! Which you would have bought in a heartbeat because F**K ME SIDE WAYS! how could would it be to explore Abby's perspective of what happened.

In fact, shame on you Naughty Dog for not doing that. You would have saved yourself a lot of miserable trolls and cretins complaining online, have much higher user reviews, and taken millions more to the bank!

[Fishy Fingers]

Didnt hate her personally. Bit dull but rather enjoyed the contextual combat after seeing the same steath kill animation a hundred times. Just found (most of) her sections drawn out and poorly placed (at a interesting moment in Ellies ark)

[lellkay]

This is my exact thoughts!

[rainslacker]

I came to like her alright. It was better than the typical antagonist just being the bad guy. Her reasons for doing what she did were the same as the protagonist, and we liked the protagonist. I agree the placement of her in the story just kind of started the pacing issue back to the starting point, and even though I found her few days that was shown more interesting than Ellie's, there was way too much just every day stuff without much direction until the last day. Throwing in her becoming a protector for the last half, not unlike joel from the first game, just seemed out of the blue, with no real point to the overall story, and it had nothing to do with why the resolution at the end was what it was.

[--Onilink--]

Yeah, that last whole section was definitely them writing themselves into a corner, because they had been building up that conflict between the wolves as scars so much, that it would have been just as weird if they didnt do anything with it.
But it definitely dragged a bit and the whole pacing and story arc of those 3 days could have been handled a bit better, or at least try to differentiate gameplay styles between them even more

[NapalmSanctuary]

The protagonist became just like her because of her. The difference between Ellie and Abby is that Ellie's quest for vengeance is justified while Abby's vengeance comes from the fact that someone wouldn't let someone else murder a little girl.

[--Onilink--]

My biggest complaint is similar, and has nothing to do with story wise, playing as her.

I just felt that (especially considering at which point the split happens) her entire section was just way too long. If the game had ended back when the storylines combined I would have knocked it a bit more, but the additional sections after that did help soften it a bit (though I would still definitely shave at least 2 or so hours from that whole arc.

I think overall what happened is that they wrote themselves into a corner, because by the first 2-3 sections with her, whatever point they were trying to make with her was already made, and it focused too much for too long on aspects of the story that didnt connect to Ellie’s actions right up until the end. But they had been teasing the conflict between Scars and Wolfs for so long (which was just another story to show their point about mindless violence) that it would have been just as weird if there was no resolution to that story arc, even though it didnt really advance the narrative of the two of them in any way (it was still a very cool section though)

[antarius]

Great article! Describes her perfectly. Shes nothing more than a raging psychopath and there’s no way for
Normal people to make any kind of connection with her. Druckmann shit all over his own game in the name of sjw bullshit.

[Thatgrammar]

@antaris
*SPOILERS*
At first I wasn’t a fan of playing as Abby, but because of her choices and interactions with her fellow companions she grew on me. I still preferred Ellie, but It was amazing to fight Ellie as if she were a boss battle. I made Abby die the first chance hoping to have Ellie win, but the game makes you battle it out and it made the whole fight so cool because I wanted Ellie to win, but had to try and kill her. I thought the game was great. Can’t decide if I like the story better than the original, I am still debating that with myself. However, I understand if people don’t get into the game as much as I did. I just don’t understand why everyone is mad at Druckmann? He was the director of this game. He wrote it along with lead writer Halley Gross. They tried something different and new in their world of the Last Of Us. I appreciate people doing something new and different. I just don’t understand what people want? Its silly to be so angry with someone for telling the story they wanted to tell, especially considering he wrote the first game. Also, the SJW thing makes little sense to me. It just seems like Neil and Halley wanted to tell a unique story which happened to have characters with differing ideals than you and many others. I have actually met a girl as buff as Abby and she was a really nice person. I have met multiple men and women who are gay and/or bisexual. I have met straight people as well. I was really good friends with a girl in my high school who liked to dress loke a stereotypical guy in society. She decided to remove her boobs and take hormones to become a guy. I didn’t know her during her transition, but I talked to her a few times after the transition. The point is, many differing people exist who aren’t within the “societal norm.” Whats the problem with seeing those people betrayed in movies, or in this case a game? The “sjw” stuff wasn’t weirdly pushed into the game. The game even had a male on female sex scene, but all anyone can focus on is the allusion to Ellie and Dina sex, a muscly women, and a character who shaved their head and was to be a “wife” but instead he wanted to be a hunter (idk if they’re trans or not) as being “sjw propaganda.”

[Veneno]

I think people are happy that they tried and added new things in Tlou 2 but seemed to have abandoned some of the best parts if Tlou 1.

[rainslacker]

Her reasons for doing what she did were just like ellie. Ellie became a raging psychopath too, killing people in cold blood, threatening innocent people to get what she wanted, etc.

Abby's one fault was that she tortured joel before killing him...something that ellie seemed to be looking forward to when she got to abby, and mentioned she'd do to the people she was hunting to get to abby if she had to.

Yet, we can still empathize with ellie. So, I don't believe that there is no way for normal people to empathize with abby. We can all relate to wanting what abby wanted, but may have trouble justifying their actions. But people arent questioning Ellie doing the same things.

I found it an interesting way to approach the story, because it wasnt you're typical crazy antagonist approach

[--Onilink--]

Honestly by the end I didnt want Ellie to kill Abby, not because Abby had done something to deserve Ellie not killing her (especially since at no point does Ellie knows what Abby has been through, i cant even remember if she knows Joel killed her dad).
But because I wanted Ellie to realize that it would not bring her any closure, she had become just as bad as Abby was and her desire for revenge was the thing not really allowing her to remember Joel other than how he was in those last moments

[rainslacker]

I believe Ellie was made aware of why Abby did it. I believe it was Nora that told her before she was killed. Said that Joel deserved what he got, and told her what he did. But my recollection is a bit fuzzy. Maybe even Abby told her at some point, but they didn't really have much interaction between them. Somehow she knew because she did tell Abby that it was her that Joel was protecting, and that she was immune.

I didn't want Ellie to kill her either. Honestly, by the end, I kind of felt Ellie was more the bad guy than Abby, but that's because they showed more human emotion with Abby in her interactions with Lev, and being a decent person willing to do the right thing....which is basically what Joel was in the first game. Ellie had become rather unhinged by the end, and was too invested in revenge, which made her lose everything...including the one thing Joel had left with her, which was teaching her guitar.

By the end, there was really no explanation as to why the characters ended their feud with one another, although one can kind of guess why Abby did it. Ellie just seemed to have a change of heart, and the flashback scene didn't really give enough characterization for why what Ellie said would in any way relate to Abby....although I can see it as her just wanting to prove to herself that she could forgive.

Overall, I was kind of disappointed in the ending. It was anti-climatic, and no real resolution was made to either story....or at least that resolution wasn't explained very well. Kind of sad, because the first game left a heck of a lot up for interpretation, some of which was finalized in flashbacks in this game. That discussion on the first game was really good because no one was wrong in their analysis, and people tended to respect other people's views on what they felt it all meant.

[Imalwaysright]

Ellie showed regret for her actions particularly after killing the pregnant woman even if it was in self-defense. Abby never showed any hint of regret for her actions and when she got a hold of Dinah and Ellie told her that she was was pregnant Abby's response was "good" and would have killed her if it wasn't for Lev. Abby is the true psychopath in this story wich is further evidenced by how she tortured Joel. I find it truly hilarious how ND managed to manipulate people into liking Abby.

[GTgamer]

If Abby is a raging psychopath then what the hell does that make Joel and ellie 😂😂😂 body counts are insane on both sides but then again Joel screwed humanity just so he could play foster dad 🤔so I think he takes the cake.

[TechnoGoat]

I and many other "normal people" made a connection to her, cause we weren't preoccupied with actually being mad at the characters existence IRL.

[tinchotin]

SPOILERS

[Specter229]

I've skipped all of the cut scenes for her so far. I just want to be done with this game.

[Lethaltare]

Pathetic.

[Specter229]

Lmao. I'm pathetic because I dont wanna sit through Abbys cut scenes? More pathetic is carrying a torch for this game.

[Black-Helghast]

Then you weren't a true fan to begin with

[Specter229]

Never said I was did I?

[aconnellan]

So people who have criticisms for the game aren’t ‘true fans’?

[NapalmSanctuary]

This is a ridiculously childish statement.

[Hungryalpaca]

This is such a dumb statement. So if someone who loves the Star Wars OT and dislike the PT/ST theyre not a “true fan”?

What you’re saying is if you’re not boot licking every single decision you’re a fake fan.

That’s pathetic.

[Yui_Suzumiya]

Dumb

[Specter229]

Have to finish it. Otherwise I'm not allowed to voice my opinion on it because all of you carry a torch for the first one and unless I've completed both I'm a hater trying to crap on an awesome game. In reality im a normal gamer giving criticism to a game that deserves it.

[ArchangelMike]

Why bother with it in the first place if you think it's just a waste of time? Go play Fortnite or whatever else you like? I don't get playing games that you're not enjoying.

[Specter229]

I dont play fortnite. I dont play any Battle Royale games. And I'm finishing it because everyone says it's a great game. And of you have any criticism you're only allowed to voice it if you finish the game as well. At least that's the logic in this cesspool

[Games1st]

It's your choice. Time is also money, you don't have to finish the game.

[Specter229]

Not really. My job is still shut down so I've got the time.

[Lethaltare]

How will you even understand the story if you skip her cutscenes? Seems incredibly stupid, and you won't even be able to form an actual opinion as you will have no idea what has happened.

[Ashunderfire86]

Love her or hate her, but don't hate on the game without even trying the game yourself. You will be surprised how great this game is in terms of gameplay compared to the first game. Of course the storyline is debatable and I am on the side of liking the storyline. I think all actors did a good job, especially HBO Westworld Actress Shannon Woodward who played Dina(How many of you knew that one?). Playing as Abby was like playing Uncharted series with Resident Evil horror elements! I argue that her playthrough was better than Ellie's playthrough, especially when she has to deal with the Scars group. That scene after Lev and Yara help Abby was very intense with them fighting the stalkers and running through the rainy woods! I really hope I am ready to play that part on Hard New Game + my second playthrough.
Ellie side was awesome too especially with her swimming away from the waves! That was crazy intense with all that detail.

[ArchangelMike]

Thre were so many intense moments in this game, I am one of those that wished there was more horror segments in this game. I loved the encounters, especially in the hospital basement, I wished they had more of that. I think Abby had more of those moments than Ellie.

[Ashunderfire86]

Yea I agree Abby side was more intense and better than Ellie side with all those set pieces, but Ellie side was still great.

[DrDeath]

I ducked under the waves everytime to avoid the waves throwing me under. I thought was a nice touch in that scene. Simply because it worked didnt tell me i could do it

[Ashunderfire86]

That wave scene scared the hell out of me. I was like I am stuck in the middle of the ocean how can I get back on land? LOL!!! Glad they didn't scare us with sharks!

[Bigman4k]

The only thing i like about the game was Abby i really grew to like her once i knew her more and why she felt the way she did

[Acecalibur]

Do we really need a article justify that garbage character?

[Veneno]

I think you're supposed to hate Abs. She does a lot of messed up things.

[rainslacker]

So does Ellie. Ellie does worse things, or states she's willing to do the things that Abby has done, just to get to Abby.

Reality is, is that Ellie is actually worse than Abby in her actions, although I think Ellie is generally better in personality.

[DrDeath]

Truth.

[DrDeath]

Your supposed to hate abby in the beginning and like her, or at the very least, empathize with her by the end. Possibly seeing she is more a good guy than both joel and ellie

[Killa78]

Whilst you may not like Abby, her campaign was definitely better than Ellie's set piece wise and level design.

And liking her isnt necessary to enjoy the story, it's still Ellie's tale but from another viewpoint. You can still consider her the villain throughout, you just learn more about her.

By the end of the game I did warm to her alot more, she's certainly less vindictive and in a more stable place than Ellie.

[rainslacker]

Dunno if I agree about set pieces, as there weren't that many in the whole game. Escaping Haven was pretty cool though.

But overall level design, I 100% agree was much better in Abby's section. Lot more variety in how to approach the levels, even though they had roughly the same weapon set....although the flame thrower was way over powered. The island was very well done.

[goldwyncq]

This game is an exercise in empathy. If by the end of the game, you still feel nothing but hatred for Abby then you've failed the test big time.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

Imagine if Red Dead Redemption 2 forced you to play as Micah after Arthur’s death. Druckman wrote a game with no playable hero, everything is bleak.

[P_Bomb]

Heavy Rain had you play as the Origami Killer without knowing it. Resistance 3 had you play as the guy that blew Nathan Hale’s head off iirc. MGSV had the medic. It’s not common but there is some precedent.

[DrDeath]

Yup

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

I’m very far into the Last of Us Part 2 and don’t agree with the game’s narrative and overall storyline. It is the most nihilistic game I have ever played. I’m not too fond of Abby either.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

Finished it. Don’t agree with ending.

[ArchangelMike]

It's very interesting the discusson on if the game is nihilistic. All the factions have very strong 'moral' positions. the WLF and the Scars especially are the very opposite of nihilistic. Even the community in Jackson, have found purpose and meaning. However, I get that the main characters and their motivations for revenge drive them to the edge of nihilism, but ultimately both Abby and Ellie turn back from the brink. Abby is able to do so way before Ellie does, Abby's search for the fireflies proves that she has value to live for, and Ellie presumable leaves the farm house in search of Dina. They both have left revenge behind and now have something to live for.

In my view, this is the exact opposite of nihilism.

[myfathersbastard]

*SLIGHT SPOILER*
Hated her. Then begrudgingly started feeling for her. Then was neutral about her by the end. I understand what they were going for. And to make me not completely hate her by the end is a feat in itself. That alone goes to show how good the story quality is. I get that vengeance consumed her to the point she was willing to do things she normally wouldn’t have been. And how that act of vengeance turned her away from the life she thought she wanted. Ellie was also consumed by vengeance. It drove her to do things she didn’t think capable of.
And both lost everything they had in the process of, or because of that need for revenge. Powerful stuff.

[ArchangelMike]

Someone that gets it. Such a breath of fresh air. The range of emotions that ND were able to elicit from me while playng this game. Grief, hatred, remose, empathy, joy, revulsion, sadness. No other game has taken me on such an emotional journey.

Most peple don't realise that, along with Ellie they too are going through the cycle of grief. I literraly put my controller down and couldn't believe ND wanted me to play as Abby, but then it slowly dawned on me that I was actually grieving the loss of Joel. It was very powerful, I have never felt that way about a game character before, and then the fact that at some point in the game I was rooting for Abby, and by the end was actually saying to Ellie "please just stop, don't do ths anymore, just let it go." It is such a testament to the brilliance of ND's story telling ability that they can move the player so much.

[bunt-custardly]

Same. But I think Ellie became too one-dimensional as a character after "that" moment and Abby was given a lot more scope for character development. Obviously a deliberate decision by the writers.

[GodOfNothing]

By the halfway point in this game I realized that playing as Ellie in TLOU2 made me feel infinitely sicker and more psychopathic than playing as Trevor in GTAV. Through the first half of the game I hated Abby but now, 2/3 Through the game I actually enjoy playing as her and I honestly hate Ellie more than any character I've played as over 100s of games.

[tagzskie]

Spoiler alert! Well for me it works, at first day using abby at seattle im so bored, why should i use her? i said to my self. I just want ellie's story getting revenge, i even take a break playing. But right after the day 1 about to end and she meets isaac im getting intrigue again. My friend thought that the developers want us to sumpathize w/ abby that's why we play her, but for me its different. For me when playing abby and her friends die one by one is so feel good, specially manny getting head shot in front of me ahaha. At first i didnt know who the sniper is, i just thought its just a scars elite, but man thats good. That's why im not a fan of people giving opinion just because they only watch at youtube. You need to experience it yourself.

[rainslacker]

Yeah. If you played Abby without knowing Ellie's story, or already having a connection with her, you would probably just see Abby as the protagonist, because her side of things is a common trope in many forms of media. Wanting revenge for the things that have happened to you. This took it a step further, and shows how even after getting revenge, that same character is being hunted. It's like the sequel to a revenge movie almost. It challenges common view of the antagonist is evil because the story says so, and in my opinion, Ellie was no better than Abby in her actions.

it can certainly be discussed who had the better story arc throughout the game, but as far as if one should be hated more than the other...I think the point of the story is that they were both the same.

[TheHateTheyGive]

I like abby and her story, plus shes a good girl.

[nibblo]

Can't wait to play as Abby as I enjoyed the 20 minutes or so at the beginning with her. I must be close to the middle of the game and I'm getting sick of Ellie she's not a nice character to be around for the 12 or so hours I've played (unless she's playing the guitar), I need a break.

[OpenGL]

I'm not done with the game yet but I'm probably about 25 hours in and at this point I actually like Abby. I wish things were different for Joel but I can understand why she did what she did even if it was wrong. Liked the hotel segment after crossing the skyscraper bridge, those sneaky fucks.

[Kubark]

I haven't even played the game and I hate her.

[Yui_Suzumiya]

Then you're an idiot. Go play and finish it first, then you can judge.

[Kubark]

Naughty Dog should apologise for the entire thing, pretend this never happened, and make the TLOU2 for the PS5. They can introduce the real TLOU2 with Joel practicing his golf swing in an empty field, hahaha.

[Knightofelemia]

Meh just one of those types of characters you tend to forget about really fast

[ArchangelMike]

Then you obviously haven't played the game, or you are just not paying attention. Nobody is going to forget about Abby, not any time soon.

[Knightofelemia]

I have the game I am playing the game she treats Joel's head like a golf ball as of right now I don't care for a Ronda Rousey looking character.

[DreadGara]

Don't mind people reply about you haven't played the game.
You're opinion is more than welcome and I do agree with you. But sadly I won't be able to forget how bad the game is....I was expecting something far way better than what been delivered.
Anyway, lesson learned.

[cluclap]

@knight what does the character's have to do with he gameplay and quality of story?

[Knightofelemia]

Its called freedom of choice if I choose to like a character then I like a character if I hate a character then I hate a character.

[AK91]

Your honestly allowed to praised Abby and the story but your also allowed to do the opposite too, the fact there is a large number of people who dislike her character (and honestly all the characters in the game) along with the story isn't trolls or incels or whatever it people voicing their opinion on what they believe to be an bad and poorly written story.

Yes its Neil Druckmann's story and he's allowed to take whatever direction he thinks is best but at the same time people don't have to like it and are allowed to criticize it and voice their problems with the final product.

[rainslacker]

I think both Ellie and Abby are characterized in such a way that you are allowed to like or dislike the characters. The story is set up for the player to decide if they're good or bad people, and look at how hate and anger can affect your life or change you as a person.

Some people seem to be hating on the character without really knowing the character, however.

I do notice some people dislike Abby because of what she did. But, then don't seem to have a problem with Ellie basically spending the whole game trying to do what Abby did.

It's sort of an "eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind" kind of scenario.

As far as the overall story goes....I notice a lot of the hate seems to be around things that simply aren't the case with the game. Like it's an SJW propoganda piece or specific plot points that have people upset. The SJW propoganda simply isn't true in this case, and the plot points may make people upset with it, but saying it's a bad story or direction doesn't seem to be an objective view on the quality of the story itself....although I do believe there are actual valid criticisms that can be made about certain aspects of the story which aren't really discussed that much that I can tell.

[cell989]

Just the thought of her pisses me off, good job Naughty Dog

[antikbaka]

women don't get as big as Abby without testosterone or other drugs even if they do exercise every day. I see it in my gym. And this is zomby-post apocalypse world. Who supplies her?

[ArchangelMike]

😂😂😂

[DrDeath]

This is what im saying. I squat twice my body weight at 195 lbs. Bench 90 lb dumbells for reps. Etc etc

She isnt a realistic build for any woman without steroids. Period.

Fing period.

[P_Bomb]

Technically she could be on steroids. Surely they didn’t all just disappear into thin air come outbreak day. One could make the argument.

[Yusi-D-Jordan]

Of course it's justified. Naughty Dog is crazy to think we were going to love playing as SPOILERS: The killer of Joel, and then make us go through a scene of her/him having anal sex. Wtf is wrong with them?

I loved literally all other Naughty Dog games.

[ArchangelMike]

You obviously haven't played the game, but have engorged yourelf on the spoiler hate thats out there.

Shame.

[cluclap]

Yea like wtf is he talking about. Some people even say neil druckman or the character that looks like neil druckman has sex with her. That never happened. Like 90% of the people who talk shit haven't even played the game.

[Yusi-D-Jordan]

Played and beat it. Notice how you couldn’t refute anything I said, dumbass.

[DrDeath]

Their was no anal sex....

Only sex. Unless owen went in totally dry in 2 seconds time. Abby didnt even wince.

Your a fool and didnt play the game

[Yusi-D-Jordan]

It’s *you’re*. And it’s hard to have vaginal sex without a vagina, dumbass.

[ArchangelMike]

Either you haven't played the game or you haven't had sex before. Let me refute your moronic lizard brain ignorance.

(1) Abby is not a him/her. If you have actually played the game you would know this.
(2) There are many sexual positions that two consenting heterosexuals can adopt, without it being anal sex, you premature imbecile.

[Yusi-D-Jordan]

Listen, dumbass. You saw Abby didn't have breasts. They call Abby "her" at certain points, but gender pronouns are personal.

Also, they were having sex from behind - Two people without vaginas. You think he stuck it between Abby's legs? God, what a moron.

[DrDeath]

Dont even bother. The Guys a virgin child. Does he really think you can just shove your sausage in there dry? Lol

I dont like abbys build myself. Its unrealistic. But she is clearly a woman and had vaginal sex in the scene

[Gameseeker_Frampt]

@Yusi-D-Jordan

"Also, they were having sex from behind - Two people without vaginas. You think he stuck it between Abby's legs?"

My god, you couldn't of done a better job of admitting that you have no idea how the female body works. Perhaps you should spend a little less time on n4g and a little more time on pornhub.

[Yusi-D-Jordan]

Couldn’t have*. Dumbass. I’m trying to prove a point. They had anal sex. That’s what happened. Anyone who thinks they didn’t is an idiot.

[Gameseeker_Frampt]

The only point you are proving is that you have no idea how sex works. Keep posting though. It is hilarious that you think doggy style is anal sex. Same with spooning, wheelbarrow. and the dozens of different sex positions from behind.

[Yusi-D-Jordan]

Let me put it into terms even your single digit IQ can understand: Two biological males had doggystyle sex, and you don’t think that was anal? Moron.

[Bruh]

Unpopular opinion: I actually liked Abby a lot more than Ellie. There's some serious pacing issues to her story, but her redemption story arc is pretty compelling. It honestly convinces me that this game should have been all about her with the final arc being a foil to Abby's entire journey, with you playing as Ellie

[ArchangelMike]

That's a very interesting position. I had a similar thought after I finished the game. I think it might have landed beter if the game had started as you playing as Abby 4 years ago with here dad and the Zebra. The cut to the hospital after Joels rampage immediately sets the context and motivations of the charatcter. And continues the story immediately after Part 1.

This could have been a gentler and more empathic introduction to Abby, and she probably would'nt have generated as much hate when she finally kills Joel.

[Bruh]

I actually thought her arc up until she met Lev was poorly paced. I think the game should've started with Abby and her dad at outbreak day and their recruitment into the fireflies. How he became the only surgeon capable of being able to make the vaccine. With zero mention of Joel and Ellie and as you're playing you start realizing that oh shit he's one of the doctor's Joel killed in that hospital. It woulda made her arc feel more cohesive and then you switch over to Ellie as you play as the villain essentially trying to bring justice for Joel.

[mixelon]

You're supposed to hate Abby at the beginning, that's the whole point.. I liked her and appreciated what they did with her by the end.. Her stupid revenge quest is no different than Ellie (and Tommy's) and in many ways is MUCH more justified..

So, yeah.. Mission accomplished ND.

[TechnoGoat]

Abby is a fantastic character..

[quenomamen]

Video gamers are some of the most childish people on the planet. Booo hoo, you cant do this to my fav character! whaaa!

[Takwin]

She really grew on me. Abby and Ellie were both so broken.

[TheLigX]

I could never get around to liking Abby. Just as you said, she made Ellie watch as she killed Joel, and Manny spit on his corpse. I hated that whole crew throughout the game. Playing as them was uncomfortable, but I thought it was very well done. The only remorse that I felt was when they played fetch with Alice. I loved the game.

[SublimeStylee2]

I just completed the story today. Graphics, animations, whether effects and gameplay were absolutely amazing. I'm personally split on the story, I enjoyed many aspects but something was off, it kinda was a bit terrible. Some of the acting was top notch and some were just downright awfull and felt absolutely forced kinda like the story. Despite my issues with the story and a few characters , the whole experience imo is a solid 8/10.

[SCW1982]

Abby kicks all sorts of Ass

[sampsonon]

Why this writer doesn't get the message of the game.

[gigzamillion]

If people are having that much of an emotional reaction to a video game character then apparently Naughty Dog did their job and the writing and story is fantastic after all. Well done ND.

[Broncob]

Flat out hate her, I was all in even with Joel being gone, I played and tried hard to understand. But I could not warm to Abby in the slightest and when you actually play it from start to finish, you realise it's just bad so very bad, Abby and crew are totally unlikable, Joel unjustly treated, they basically just destroy everything in the first part to make this god awful trash heap.