There's plenty to admire in this smart and adventurous horror, though you'll have to endure some missteps to get there.
"The Prague-based (Czech Republic) video games publisher Bohemia Interactive and Brno-based (Czech Republic) indie games developer CBE software, today announced with great thrill and joy that their first-person psychological horror game "Someday You'll Return", is now available as a Director's Cut edition for PC via Steam and Playstation (PS5 and PS4) via PSN." - Jonas Ek, TGG.
CBE Software Jan Kavan doesn’t expect too many developers to push next-gen hardware to its limits.
Well, duh?
If you consider all developers, you are putting AAA, AA and Indies in the same boat. And the last are by far the majority .While the vast majority of indie games are not exactly famous for pushing hardware.
AAA will be using it to the fullest basically within one year if not in six months after launch.
Wont stop gamingbolt asking devs that wont use the full potential how theyll use that full potential. Ironically, this is the dev telling gamingbolt directly, so they cant claim they arent aware.
I often says this; different devs have different opinions. I've had devs swear to me that UE4 would never be broadly adopted by many triple A studios. Others got onboard quickly. Just like artists, programmers have different views of how to approach the future.
Devs have motivations to express themselves for marketing/getting noticed. Others just answer questions while in the boundary of their NDAs.
It'll be really interesting if they port Dreams to PS5, or release a Dreams 2 sooner rather than later as in my humble opinion, their engine is genius. PS5 version I think would blow our minds. Don't know enough about UE5 and if it's using some sort of hybrid voxel/polygon engine to achieve what they have.
"Only the best- resourced will use them to their full potential."
Fixed that for you.
They are both extraordinarily powerful in their own right meaning you can get great results without maxing them out. It wouldn't make sense for everyone to max out each console. And a lot of titles don't need that at all.
The only game I can day truly max's out a console truly this gen is TLoU Part 2 and that was at least 6 years in development.
No game will max out these machines for quite some time.
Not understanding your response to blackblades comment!? Are you insinuating that a better funded game trumps talented developers making a game?
Call of Duty is a well funded or as you put it best- resourced game, but on the grand scheme of things it's literally stagnant in creativity! Yet a new ip shown by Sony's showcase called Kina was in fact developed by two brothers with limited resources, but somehow manage to steal the show in many peoples eyes.
So yes I disagree with your comment.
Over 800 GB would be a big game to use the ps5 to its fullest won't have long to wait till the next call of duty🤣
stuna1,
Not at all what I meant.
Resources are beyond finance. That INCLUDES having a talented team, creativity, ingenuity, and dedication.
An example: money in the absence of outright talent is when get publishers/ developers like EA, Activision, and the like. They don't ever really get the full potential of a console. These studios are also lacking in creativity, ingenuity, but they are dedicated to their microtransactions.
Talent in the absence of budget is when you get the visionary titles that don't really maximize a console's capability. Studios like Housemarque, Kojima Productions, Platinumgames, Red Barrels, Thomas Happ Games, and even Sony Japan studio. They've made great titles, but the scale and scope are limited.
But when you have a studio with the gamut of
resources (the talent, creativity, ingenuity, dedication, AND budget) you get Naughty Dog, Guerrilla Games, Rockstar, etc.
See the difference? I corrected blackblades because it didn't go far enough, not because talent isn't important. Talent is a part of their resource capacity.
The only ones who will push the GPU are the in house studios which is a shame I want every bang for my buck and with games suppose to be going up an extra $10 I want my games utilizing the GPU. Studios not utilizing the GPU are just lazy indies I can see but not big named games.
I didn't mean indies as lazy it was a typo I don't see indies pushing the GPU I am calling bigger studios like EA lazy who would never fully utilize the GPU
the importance of punctuation makes a hella of a difference. "are just lazy. Indies..."
They will definitely be using the SSD though lol. I would like to see a loading time comparison with both console's running multiplatform and third party games
Cant wait for digital foundry's analysis :). Not that it would affect my purchasing decision but its nice to see what the hardware is capable of.
I don't think the PS5 is capable of losing a loading battle. I'm more interested in a FPS battle. They will both be similar resolutions so it's gonna come down to framerates.
I fans saying the samething about the PS3 because the mandatory installs, and the console lost a ton of times to the Xbox 360 in loadings.
@Imortus_san
So based on what you know in 2020, what do you think is the most likely outcome?
With bad optimization is rather possible. Or if it hits a bottleneck when decompressing something. Though it will be more likely that it will be faster at loading times. With the only question being how much faster. Because at least on PC, having a two time faster Nvme drive more often than not results in your game loading less than half a second faster.
Now I don't think we can expect much differences in FPS. Mainly because I don't think most publisher/developers care about. Though I can see some more intensive effects being more pronounced on one console over the other.
Uhm 3rd party developers always go for parity. Same assets, same models, same techniques on loading/streaming data, same FPS. The thing that always fluctuate the most, is resolution and using checker boarding (variable resolution). Just compare PS4 pro and Xbox One X: Usually XOX has a notch higher FPS and maybe a bit better graphical effects. Not to say that always was a good tough, some games running on higher resolution had FPS dips and timing sync problems (I cant recall which games they were, but you can find them on Digital foundry videos).
The exclusives will and we pretty much know who's going to win that battle 😁
CBE Software’s Jan Kavan reveals what interests him about the upcoming next-gen console.
And another one speaks out! But of course these developers are wrong/s
We are no longer talking about Sony/Microsoft hyping their own products to garner praise, it's far beyond that.
It definitely isn't about these developers recieving monotary gains, because let anyone tell you Microsoft is in a much better position to do so! I seriously doubt it's about some secretive NDA's as well, so what is it!? Perhaps exactly what Sony and Mark Cerny said it is "A efficiently built Console"! That can't be defined by any specific part, but of every part as a whole.
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Remember though, most of these devs speaking out are working with that console exclusively.
Same with the series X. Medium, scorn and the ascent devs have spoken out about the power of the X. These are devs working exclusively on that platform. You have to take it with a grain of salt
Bottom line is we have to see the game output, the first party differences and the digital foundry comparisons (if you care about that).
"Bottom line is we have to see the game output, the first party differences and the digital foundry comparisons (if you care about that)."
Exactly.
I've got to say if the xbox only looks slightly better and digital foundry has to zoom in on photoshop to find it then I'm of the opinion sony made the right call to have an ultra fast ssd which pumps more things on screen such as particle effects and actual levels
I see your point. Many of these developers who come out to praise next gen hardware have time exclusivity agreements like Scorn and The Medium.
Unreal Engine is free for anyone to use and Epic isn't making anything other than MULTIPLATFORM GAMES.
You guys are saying Unreal, but EPIC has a marketing agreement with Sony. There’s a reason they weren’t even allowed to say the word “Xbox” in their interview after the engine demonstration
funny thing is, this latest developer is just mentioning PS5 whilst talking about a game they have already released.
He does not say he is working on a PS5 game.
@Kumakai
It's well established here that you don't understand the technical terms you talk about. Quit lying on here. Just stop.
Frequency cycles? That's not even a term lol. You just thought the two sound right together because all you do is Ad-Lib technical terms.
"push it hard on occasion to hit 10 TFLOPS without over-extending the pipeline continously"
Nope. Officially the console maintains its 10.28TFlop performance constantly. This was spoken of during the Road To PS5. Variable is to allow excess power and resources to be sent to the GPU from multiple avenues to maintain system stability and lower power usage. Also, to maximize on the fact that CU's are not fully utilized and fall off quite easily as you go higher.
" If you let off the throttle in your car, your car uses less energy and slows down. The ps5 is no different. This is basic computing and basic physics."
Again, you know nothing. The PS5 is basically just switching gears to maintain speed but use less gas. The games it plays are the roads it drives on that tell it what MPH/KMH it can go. If a game runs at 60fps with the same fidelity even while the system downclocks by 20%, then what's the point in running at 100% clock? There is no reason to be 100% clock if the game isn't demanding enough. The benefit is that these variable designs allows better power delivery to the GPU, the most important factor, which means better stability, less frame-pacing, stuttering, or frame drops.
You don't even understand what variable means, completely lie about dropping to 8TF of all numbers, and don't even realize that variable is a common feature for this hardware. The difference is that consoles didn't need variable in the past, but because AMD PowerShift is now a thing, it benefits APU's tremendously. It's not just about being supplied power to get to a TFlop number. It's also the consistency, flexibility, and efficiency of that power delivery that increases performance.
Sustained clock speed has zero benefit over variable. Once a product is confirmed to sustain a clock, we already know its capability just the same. PS5 is confirmed to sustain both max clocks simultaneously even in demanding titles. Do you even know that, even while running the same clock constantly, that a GPU can perform slower than usual? If all the resources of the GPU are being utilized, the clock speed is just hogging some juice that can go elsewhere. SmartShift + variable means that even brutally demanding titles that use nearly all GPU resources, and could benefit from even a very small clock decrease to increase efficient cycles and push other hardware will be better off than constant clocks that have no flexibility.
Whats your portfolio? What have you worked on? Surely if you know your stuff you'd have no use hiding your success.
Fantastic saved Me explaining it myself, Sony made a mistake by using “variable “ as variable isn’t accurate because as you’ve explained above, perfectly by the way, it remains at those clock speeds almost constantly with occasional 3 percent if needed through smart shift, and that happens very fast we’re talking milliseconds . Doesn’t he know that 12tf in series X is best case scenario?!?! It won’t run at that constantly do some research and you will clearly see
So would u say that ps5 will be at 10.2TF most of the time while xbox series x at 12TF constantly?
@WGAF
It depends on the efficiency of the system. TFlops is a theoretical performance measurement. Not real world scenario. It's not even a benchmark. Just taking the specs of the hardware and multiplying them together to have a reference point of power. This is why they say TFlops aren't created equally. NVidia, AMD, and Intel have different architectures with better or worse architectures even within themselves. AMD GCN vs RDNA2 vs RDNA1 Tflops are different as well even though all are AMD. If all had the same 2 Tflops, then RDNA2 would significantly be better for gaming because of its efficiency. However, SX and PS5 are both RDNA2.
We don't know how much the Tflop difference means to gaming performance yet. We have to have real world examples to show us. We have a 17% difference in theoretical performance. This doesn't mean much in a games console. It is a slight advantage, but on one hand, we know that the PS5 is all about efficiency. We know that the GPU is not hindered and will be more representative of its theoretical performance. The SX has an older design philosophy, but I'm sure the GPU has no issues being held back on the hardware side. The issue lies with software development. The more CU's you have, the more wasted resources that aren't optimized for unless developers specifically spend the time to do it. CU's have gotten bigger and more feature packed, but increasing CU count is less growth versus finding that sweet spot for CU count and packing more into the CU's themselves. Of course, these two GPU's have the same architecture. The PS5 CU's are simply faster, but less total, unless told otherwise. It just depends on developers taking advantage of them, and if they don't take advantage of a large amount of them, then there is a falloff for a larger count of them.
My expectation? PS5 will have more consistent performance with less stutters, frame-pacing, or drops. Not that I'm saying that SX will have these as common issues. Just more likely to have these hiccups in certain situations if the scene wasn't optimized well to address a sudden request in power draw. But, SX might have a very small increase in settings. 3rd parties likely won't take advantage of either system. Just enough to meet the same goal on both. It's like having a car with more horsepower versus a car with less horsepower but other things to make it efficient enough to perform just as well.
From the DF article with Mark Cerny...
"Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core."
That would explain so many of the games shown at the PS5 event running at 30fps. They are having to throttle the cpu.
Mark describing the extra OPTIMIZING developer will have to learn to do.
"Mark Cerny sees a time where developers will begin to optimise their game engines in a different way - to achieve optimal performance for the given power level. "Power plays a role when optimising. If you optimise and keep the power the same you see all of the benefit of the optimisation. If you optimise and increase the power then you're giving a bit of the performance back. What's most interesting here is optimisation for power consumption, if you can modify your code so that it has the same absolute performance but reduced power then that is a win. "
In short, the idea is that developers may learn to optimise in a different way, by achieving identical results from the GPU but doing it faster via increased clocks delivered by optimising for power consumption. "The CPU and GPU each have a power budget, of course the GPU power budget is the larger of the two," adds Cerny. "If the CPU doesn't use its power budget - for example, if it is capped at 3.5GHz - then the unused portion of the budget goes to the GPU. That's what AMD calls SmartShift."
This was the point Jason Ronald from Microsoft was making. Variable frequencies is extra work for developers. As you can see even Lord Cerny is saying so. Optimize!
Thank you! This is identical to what Cenry said. I, myself, keep wondering where people kept getting the misunderstanding of this
@WGAF
The Teraflop number will never change. I think that's where some people are confused. There's just so much misinformation being spread about what a teraflop is because of people Kumakai.
Here is how the teraflops are MEASURED for the GPU's of these consoles:
For the PS5
36 Compute Units x 64 shaders x 2223Mhz (Clockspeed) = Total Flops x 2 = 10.28 Teraflops (Flops = Floating Point Operations Per Second)
It's a simple mathematical calculation based on the "KNOWN HARDWARE SPECS"
The Teraflop number is static it does not change based on down clocking or power reductions, it is a REAL NUMBER. Think of it like this 2+2=4, that equation and it's result are real numbers that will never change.
I understand where Kumakai got this silly idea of saying that teraflops go up and down if the PS5's clock speed goes down, they got it from Microsoft executives who said "We could have went with variable clocks," but blah, blah, blah. Microsoft was just damage controlling because they are beginning to realize that teraflops is only one part of a bigger picture. When you see someone trying to change the reality of the PS5's Teraflops basically, they're trying to tell you that 2+2 doesn't equal 4. Know and understand that there are only three ways to see this:
1. The person saying it has no idea what they're talking about because they obviously believe that 2+2 doesn't equal 4
2. They are fanboys who are spinning something Microsoft said in order to reassure themselves
3. A combination of both 1 & 2
You can't say "less frame pacing". Frame pacing is simply how long a frame remains on screens. You should have written "more consistent frame pacing".
Still, great explanation! I 🙂
@sub, you forgot the rest of that quote where they state they are still coding with the jaguar's in mind....
"Several developers speaking to Digital Foundry have stated that their current PS5 work sees them throttling back the CPU in order to ensure a sustained 2.23GHz clock on the graphics core. It makes perfect sense as most game engines right now are architected with the low performance Jaguar in mind - even a doubling of throughput (ie 60fps vs 30fps) would hardly tax PS5's Zen 2 cores."
They really just need to start coding to the hardware and stop worrying about cross gen, it's not the variable frequencys that's the problem, its devs not moving forward.
It must be true seeing as its being reported on by the most trusted site on the internet..... gamingbolt
Apparently, no site, or person, is credible enough to keep some people from accepting what is said on why the PS5 might be a good console.
But yeah, Gamingbolt still sucks.
It's called context. When something is consistantly being reported as factual regardless of source, it give that aspect or probability there truth behind it. As much as certain ones want to try and destabilize the conversation surrounding PS5 and its capabilities, time and time again they're failing miserable.
It true for whatever reason there are those who would love to see Sony on bended knees, but I'm calling it now.....not going to happen
"That can't be defined by any specific part, but of every part as a whole." This is every piece of hardware or computer or console.The same could be said about Xbox one PlayStation 4 Xbox one x series x. Seriously.
I can't believe all these devs conspired and agreed to all lie about that weak station 5,i was told xb being more powerful equals winning the generation.
The only person who tells the truth is Phil Spencer just like when he said high fidelity vr because it is still coming.
Sony ps5 is doa
Dude what on earth are you talking about? Just exactly what is this dev from a game I’ve never even heard of saying when he speaks out? I read the article twice and he isn’t talking about the series x the author mentions it but he don’t directly. Basically all he says is he wants to work on the ps5 because of tempest . Sound. Sony and the ps5 are hard up when the ONLY thing you got to hype your console up is a new way of delivering sound that probably won’t work for everyone. You are twisting peoples words to fit a specific agenda. Just because one thing is better doesn’t mean the other one is bad. The ps5 will be great and doesn’t need anyone making excuses for it even if it is weaker than the competition. Just enjoy the system and it’s wonderful games when it comes out
The car analogy is stupid. Maybe if you guys said NASCAR stock car doing the Daytona 500 which needs a sustained performance over the length of the race.
Many of these next gen games are going to require next gen speed and performance to maintain their graphical/framerate targets
An ordinary vehicle only need what is required which is why in the city there is so much stop and go. 40 mph for 2 min then stop repeat. Sure I can go 85 mph on a highway ...enable cruise control but most cars are not being driven 85 mph sustained all day. Stock cars go 200 mph over the entire race.
And really stupid argument using a regular car.
I did hear from a twitter thing.. The exact words were something like "cerny has downplayed everything" or "cerny is downplaying everything" try find it someone. Please..
Anyway the point is that it can sustain it's 10.3tf ineffinately. Which I'm not sure.. Don't want to say and be wrong, but I'm not sure if this is the case with all all consoles?
When graphic card manufactures, be it pc or consoles, when they list a TF rating, It's peak output, ... (Best case cenario)
Where as ps5 can sustain this number for hours..
The variable clocks are used, if cpu isn't needed as much in a particular bit of the game, gpu can take more power... And vice versa. So for instance... A fps game.. Can look amazing taking some cpu power, shifting it to gpu. But say a platform game, which has a high phisics load, can ask the gpu to slow down so gt he cpu can take power for the physics rendering.
I'm no expert, + this certainly does not explain the Ratchet and Clank demo, which has both good looks, while loads of particle effects are flying all over..
For graphics cards the clock speed is determined by the temperature of the GPU. The expected frequency range is between the base and boost clock. This method means that ambient temps, airflow, and the cooling solution of the card have an impact on the performance. The upside is that you are getting the maximum performance at any given time.
For consoles this approach wouldn't be ideal, because it would result in performance inconsistency. Instead, clock speeds are generally more conservative, but fixed. Console manufacturers try to design a cooling solution that can deal with a reasonably realistic worst case scenario (dusty console, hot summer day and so on). If the chip can't be cooled sufficiently on the highest fan speed the console shuts itself off to avoid overheating.
If I understood Cerny's explanation correctly Sony identified a problem with the traditional method used on consoles. With fixed clocks, some situations consume a lot more power than others. More power consumption means more heat produced. Counterintuitively in many of those situations, the rendered geometry is actually rather simple. On PS4 this problem is expressed by an unnecessarily high fan speed in situations like map screens for God of War and Horizon or something like the loadout screen in MGSV.
To avoid these problems Sony has adopted a variable frequency model, effectively setting a maximum power budget for the SoC. When a situation like the map screen in God of War happens on PS5, the Power control module examines the chip activity and lowers the clock speed to avoid producing unnecessary heat.The big advantages of that model is the elimination of power spikes compared to the traditional console model and accordingly higher predictability of the temperature variance. Unlike the graphics card temperature dependent model, this produces consistent performance across all PS5 consoles. I expect the fan control to still be based on the temperature of the SoC and if the PS5 were to overheat it would probably shut itself down just like the other consoles.
Finally, SmartShift is a technology that allows an APU to deliver unused CPU power to the GPU and vice versa. I'm not sure if it's one way on the PS5, but it's safe to say that most of the time it'll be shifting unused CPU power to the GPU. It's important to note that this does not necessarily require a downclock of the CPU or GPU.
the PS5 can run at full 10.3tf as long as it needs to. It's not a short burst that it can sometimes run. The thing being done is explained quite well by sinspirit above, so I won't repeat it here, but basically, it allows devs to decide where to put the power they want to use.
TF ratings are just a measure of the potential max number of floating point operations that a processor can perform per second. It isn't a measure on actual graphic rendering potential, as there are many things that will be required to do that. GPU's aren't the renderers, it's the software and processes themselves which do that, and the GPU just spits out data in a format the TV can understand.
I still believe a developer with experience making games than anyone else in this industry.
Ugh....I'm not saying that the PS5 won't be great. I was only pointing out that a comment from an unknown developer doesn't mean that much. I would say the same thing if it was a comment in favor of the XSX. Some of you guys get so tied to these console companies that you can't be objective anymore.
If only people had this attitude towards other devs who give praise to the other consoles
@bneals
Gamingbolt likes to frame their headlines in a way that tends to exaggerate what the developer actually says, in a context that isn't even really related to the question that they asked the developer in the first place.
I believe a lot of the developers that gamingbolt interviews aren't as clueless as many people would first consider them to be, but they also aren't always going on making such assertive declarative statements as gamingbolt tends to make it seem.
Usually they're just talking about what they like about a system, or how they feel about a system, or in this case, saying why they're looking forward to working with a system, and that thing they felt would be a game changer.
There is really nothing here that makes it seem like the dev had any motivation beyond giving a good faith answer, and more than half the time, that's usually the case with a gamingbolt interview.
On rare occassions they do have devs that give some technical analysis on why they feel the way they do, and gamingbolt tends to twist that around into something bad, while interjecting their own misplaced "professional" analysis. I think gamingbolt feels they're knowledgeable on the level of Digital Foundary, who I believe also gets things wrong at times when they move beyond graphics analysis, but at least DF is willing to say when it's wrong, and does try to give facts when they aren't going full on fan boy.
Why does it matter if you heard of them or not? They're professionals. I would still like their opinion because you know.... It's their area of expertise?
Still a developer who knows more than us, back in April an obvious troll on twitter was stating that Sonys console was struggling and Xbox fanboys were all over it like gospel then developers were coming out praising PS5 on its SSD and ease of development and then suddenly Xbox fanboys: "they don't know what there on about"
These Xbox comments haven’t aged well. PS5 has better performance in most 3rd party games , better fps etc . TFLOPS is theoretical and it’s clear PS5 is the better machine with less TFLOPS .
