We played modern games on a CRT monitor - and the results are phenomenal

From Eurogamer: "It's true. Running modern games on a vintage CRT monitor produces absolutely outstanding results - subjectively superior to anything from the LCD era, up to and including the latest OLED displays. Best suited for PC players, getting an optimal CRT set-up isn't easy, and prices vary dramatically, but the results can be simply phenomenal."

[UltimateSanto]

I mean, CRT are nostalgic and have a warmer feel. But they can't beat a 75 inch OLED 4K HDR TV.

[NiteX]

You'd be surprised. It's all about motion blur, which all LCDs are notorious for.

[Brave_Losers_Unite]

Surprised about what exactly?

[fr0sty]

That's a bunch of crap. CRTs motion blur just as badly if not worse, as their phosphors retain the light that hits them for a split second.

Whoever wrote this is insane. No CRT can even start to come close to my OLED. Not to mention, who wants to buy a monitor that weighs 500lbs, will have messed up color and burn-in issues after 10 years?

[fr0sty]

Also, LCD and OLED are not the same tech, not even close (light is filtered through pixels on one, light comes directly from the pixel on the other), so motion blur issues on LCD are not going to affect OLED. Some cheaper OLED displays do have motion blur for different reasons, but the more expensive sets do not.

Modern LCD panels have a 1-2ms pixel response time, bringing them in line with CRT monitors.

[UltimateSanto]

Not really. Aside all the benefits of color accuracy, brightness and screen size from OLEDs on consumer TVs, when it comes to gaming Motion Blur is not an issue anymore. That's why you don't see competitive Gamers carrying around a CRT to events, when they have a 1440p 240Hz 1ms thin monitors.

CRTs are great to play 6th gen consoles and old games for their resolution, aspect ratio and for nostalgic value. The Digital Foundry video is CRT circlejerk.

[SierraGuy]

Yes and no input lag.

[2pacalypsenow]

OLED is not LCD

[Hard8times]

OLED doesn't have motion blur response time is 1-2ms which mean no motion blur now LCD is a different story

[Cobra951]

CRTs have subjectively perfect motion. No LCD has that, not even the most expensive. Watch the Digital Foundry video on this subject.

[TheFirstClassic]

They can in terms of input lag

[WiiU-Dude]

You'd be wrong. Sorry.

[UltimateSanto]

Care to explain?

[SierraGuy]

I have a 65" oled and I can tell you it's garbage for gaming compared to my Trinitron CRT. We definitely took a step back in my opinion...input lag is a killer.

Truth be told the last decent gaming TV's we had were plasma displays.

[Hard8times]

You're a liar my LG OLED C9 at 120hz is only 6ms which is close to and better then most monitors I doubt you even have a OLED or you're not playing in game mode

[Cobra951]

Glad to find someone else who gets it. LCD is cheap tech for the masses. The truly good stuff has been abandoned. For CRTs, it makes practical sense. They're heavy, bulky, and eat a lot of power. Plasma, though . . . OK, so it eats power too. But otherwise, I thought it was a brilliant replacement for the old tube tech. Then it too got the axe.

[VariantAEC]

A lot of people who forgot (or never knew) about the cons of CRT disagreed... Why am I am not surprised?

[Cobra951]

So did a lot of people who never lived the glory days of the tube.

[WiiU-Dude]

What could I add that hasn't been covered in the comments or in the Digital Foundry video. There are cons. Size is one. I don't know that you will be seeing 65" to 75" CRT monitors and even if you did the weight alone would be ridiculous.

[Cobra951]

Yes. Cons are: weight, bulk, and power use. The screen usually has some convex curvature (though not always) and scan lines may not be perfectly straight. They need to be kept away from strong magnetic fields too. They're superior in every other important way: quality of motion, contrast, range of native resolutions, input lag. The best CRTs can even scan progressively at resolutions above 1440p, and at high refresh rates.

[timotim]

The screen on my Surface Studio has some of the best IQ I've ever seen in any screen. 4500 x 3000 and a very good PPI, the results are stunning. It's making it hard to even play games on my OLED.

[NarutoFox]

😏

[dRanzer]

Yea i know what you meant

[timotim]

Not following...the discussion is about screens right...

[frostypants]

That's some low quality astroturf, son.

[timotim]

How is it astroturfing to be on topic haha??? This is a tech conversation about screens... to bring up the screen we currently use would be considered common. If the conversation was about PS and you mentioned your PS4, would that also be astroturfing? While I understand not a lot of people have my screen, Im just mentioning my personal experience...what screen tech do you use...

[2pacalypsenow]

"It's making it hard to even play games on my OLED."

Doubt......

[timotim]

I mean...dont misunderstand me, you cant really go wrong with either one. Love both of them, but when you factor in the color calibration mixed with the fact that the Studio is almost 5K vs 4K and a optically bonded screen, then it starts to set itself apart. It doesn't hurt that the Studio is also a little more powerful than the X which means I can squeeze a little more out of it performance/visual wise.

Their is a couple of drawbacks with the Studio...the aspect ratio is 3:2 vs my OLED which is 16:9. Then theirs HDR that my OLED is capable of vs none on the Studio. However, the Studio kills it in the PPI department...192 vs about 70...thats the real killer. LG is suppose to be coming out with some 1443 PPI screens that I cant wait to see in person, but between the 2 that I have, its the Studio all the way in terms of IQ.

[Hard8times]

Thaat's a big lie LMAO

[Cobra951]

No, the discussion is about how the CRT display technology perfected for the better part of a century was abandoned, and replaced with something that can't hope to come close to several of its important qualities, in particular blur-free fluid motion, black level/contrast, and the ability to display natively a wide range of resolutions (no scaling required, no scaling blur).

Plasma is much superior to LCD too; but that got abandoned as well. OLED is too new and too expensive. Who knows what its ultimate potential will be; but right now, it's still in its infancy, and has too many issues.

[timotim]

Right...so of course gamers are going to discuss that and give their view points haha. I use to own a 27" Sony Wega back in the day...bought it for the original Xbox to play Halo on it...damn good TV! Had to connected with component cables, you couldn't tell me nothing haha. But screens of today have their own advantages and I'm happy weve moved on from those huge heavy clunkers. My current screens are better than any screens I've ever owned. My OLED is pure black when it should be and HDR puts it over the top.

@Hard8times
Just 4 you playa 🥱
https://k0te9g.dm.files.1dr...

[bluefox755]

Can't go back to 4:3.

[NiteX]

It's 16:10.

[bluefox755]

I've never had a 16:10 CRT monitor, I was speaking about my own personal experience with CRTs, hence the comment, what is wrong with people here? While I loved my giant 1600x1200 17" CRT, it just doesn't hold up today. People are so sensitive on N4G, lol.

[MadLad]

You do realize all he did was address the fact that the article we're speaking on used a 16:10 monitor. You care enough to respond with a full paragraph, and then call him and others "sensitive".

Pretty sure that makes you the fragile one here, guy; and over the dumbest of things.

[indysurfn]

Your right if only he had watched the DIGITAL FOUNDRY video in the article he would not have said that (I hope).

[windblowsagain]

Problem with people here are some of them are arsehats.

don't worry about it.

[Leeroyw]

Sorry, but this is some serious Hipster BS. These are the kinds of people who say going back to no vaccinations is cool too. Cause Rubella and Mumps are woke as shit.

[NiteX]

What? How the f.... No dude. This is simply about technology and how bullshit 4K marketing gimmicks are. The simple fact is CRT tech is still better than LCD tech even though it's nearly 2 decades old.

[dRanzer]

Yes but CRT don't have HDR or big screens monitors
Also they look bad

[PlayableGamez-]

Dawg, nobody is going to back to CRT with OLED and QLED out there.

[Dragonscale]

Crt technology is more than 2 decades old.

[Larrysweet]

This is digital foundry

[AllMightyFox]

Last time I checked they don't make 4k CRT's ….

so my monitor and tv's all win compared in resolution and clarity … plus color spectrum is larger and HDR

don't get me wrong I miss light guns severely but come on people …..

besides you know how heavy a 65" CRT would be ????

[Imortus_san]

"miss light guns" - Use a Wii or Wii U.

[PurpHerbison]

The reason I use a CRT for retro games is because the input lag is extremely good. You have resolution and clarity at the cost of lag. You are used to it though so it isn't a big deal.

[SierraGuy]

Input lag is something I can never get used to.

[VTKC]

I miss light gun games too!! Have you heard of the SHINDEN light gun? Some very clever dude is working on it and so far has demonstrated a working prototype.

[Good-Smurf]

So glad to still have few CRT sets in my house they are a must for FPS and Fighting games.
They can really Minimize the input lag older console games just have zero lag when played on CRT.
Not to mention Retro stuff.
I'm itching to hunt one of these monitors.

[MadLad]

It's kind of funny. I have a large, L-shaped desk in my office, which is where I keep my gaming PC. On the one side, I have a two monitor set up. My main screen is a curved 4k monitor, with the other being a 1440p. Then, on the other side, sits this freaking CRT; which I use for competitive matches on a number of games.

My friends laugh at the juxtaposition of it all but, per the gamers, they are amazed at simply the feel of playing on it.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

I remember before buying an HDTV I played the original Gears on a 1024 x 768 CRT using the vga adapter. It was gorgeous.

[2pacalypsenow]

Same here, an old Viewsonic for me.

[PlayableGamez-]

It took me all the way up to 2011 to switch from CRTV to HDTV just for a bunch of nostalgic old dudes to tell me to go back to CRTV. Yeah no, I am going to be looking into upgrading to QLED 4K TV with HDR for the PlayStation 5. If some of you retro weirdos want to game on CRTV with the PlayStation 5, by all means go ahead. You can also go back to VHS, cassette tapes, dial-up, and flip phones if that makes you feel better.

[PurpHerbison]

It would cost way too much to get a high quality CRT anyway. Finding one would be really hard too. Of course you should get a 4k TV for PS5. That is what the games will be made in mind with. There is just no disputing the input delay advantage of a CRT.

[Hard8times]

LMAO

[Sirk7x]

Guys, watch the Digital Foundry video on this same topic. I was pretty surprised, and so were they apparently.
Edit: oh, it's from Richard. Derp. Well, there's a good video on it if you don't want to read the article lol.

[FlyingFoxy]

There have been discussions about CRT's a few times on sites like OCUK forums, people who are into PC hardware and had CRT's already mostly knew this stuff. Though i will say it's surprising that even high hz screens still haven't caught up to older tech.

[VariantAEC]

Because they have... OLED screens are better than CRT and achieve higher resolutions. The phosphors of a CRT display also exhibit blur... It is a requirement without this blur and the human eyes persistence of vision you wouldn't see an image on a CRT display at all... But apparently know one here knows how the tech actually works...
https://youtu.be/Ea6tw-guln...

[VariantAEC]

Apparently no one knows DF is part of Eurogamer and they typically link to DF's YT.

[Dragonscale]

Digital Foundry made a YouTube video about this and its pretty interesting. Its worth checking out.

[VariantAEC]

Uh... That is literally what this article is about. Digital Foundry is a subsidiary of Eurogamer.

[CDbiggen]

Ah, I don't wanna go up into the attic to get that heavy hunk of shit. I probably don't have the right cables and it'll be covered in dust.
The results sound nice though.

[VariantAEC]

Too much nostalgia. I've played PS3 on CRT. Even games like RR7. Everything looked better on an HD TV.
CRTs have loads of drawbacks.

As a side note I've noticed a lot of gamers seem to be eco conscious... Well CRTs are electricity hogs and require a lot more resources to produce. They also flicker a fundamental flaw created by how they functional trying to hack persistence of vision.

The black levels are definitely a plus over LCDs but they don't beat OLED displays.

[FlyingFoxy]

I knew about this ages ago, i think i posted a couple times about it as well and got downvoted.

My current Dell 24" Gsync screen is nice at 1440p high hz, but yes i remember how reaponsive CRT's were. I think i was playing Soldier of Fortune 2 near 1080p back in 2004 on mine as well, practically unheard of and rare resolution back then. May have actually been 1600 x 900 (or something) and consoles were upscaling 720p in 05. Admittedly in late 04 games like Doom 3 and HL2 needed to run around 720p for a decent frame rate though.

Also CRT's display any resolution without scaling it up like LCD's do, that's why most 4k screens show 1080p content not as good looking as the source material is. Hence why they're bringing AI scaling as well.

With most current LCD's the best picture is got by running at the screen's native resolution, that's pretty much how it's always been so far.

[VariantAEC]

CRTs scale practically every image by virtue of how they function.
Please educate yourself:
https://youtu.be/Ea6tw-guln...

[SLiSH83]

I game on a monitor
1ms response time
144hz

[FreeFallFrenzy]

I heard CRT monitors make into nice fish tanks. Trying to control fish with a controller has bad input lag though...

[mixelon]

I miss CRTs but I don’t miss how massive they are!

I wish some companies still made high end but affordable-ish CRTs, with modern tech, but economy of scale makes that unlikely to ever happen. There’s something about the glow of CRTs, just got to go to an arcade with both CRT and LCD displays to see how CRTs suit some games better.

[VariantAEC]

I only miss how crisp old PS2 games look on them. Other than that... There weren't any actual advantages.
Most of the people here are have their nostalgia goggles on about CRT technology. When even the largest most sophisticated TV manufacturers who made some of the most popular and sought after monitors who really pushed the tech to the next level abandoned it (Sony), then why is everyone thinking CRT is better?

Oh right the power of nostalgia.

[mixelon]

I literally gave an example where you can see a difference. A clear difference. Put them side by side and choose the right content and the CRT can perform better. Anything with pixel graphics has a chance of looking significantly nicer on CRT, particularly if drawn with CRT in mind (ie games from the 8 and 16bit era) There’s even an argument for low fi connections, many console games targeting shitty not-even RGB SCART quality display, allowed some really nice dithers and gradients.

https://vgdensetsu.tumblr.c... Have a bunch of examples.

It’s not just the power of nostalgia, zero lag, blacker blacks, etc.. CRTs were pretty great but also, huge and usually made an annoying high pitched squeeeee.. The advantages of LCD obviously outweigh the advantages of CRT but they’d still be nice to have around.

They were massive and heavy and more expensive to produce, obviously consumers would be sold on the slim option.

[VariantAEC]

@mixelon
Those statements are objectively false.
Do you somehow think those older displays have more picture elements than modern displays?
Did you consider the way those elements are stacked on top of each other?
Of course not obviously or you wouldn't have commented.
Do you even know how a CRT display works?
LCDs and CRTs fundamentally do identical things but they achieve the same fundamental function in very very different ways.
https://youtu.be/3BJU2drrtC...
There is a video that shows you all you really need to know and I want you to tell me how these high speed videos are wrong.
CRTs displays hack our persistence of vision and flicker constantly while LCDs produce a clear solid image and refresh in a the same way as CRTs without using a ultra fast moving beam to brighten phosphors on the inside of a heavy glass shell.

Literally nothing about CRTs is better than modern panels.
What likely causes motion blur on *SOME* (not all) LCD displays is also related to persistence of vision and low contrast ratios.
https://displaylag.com/the-...

[mastershredder]

No one ever said CRTs cannot be impressive. This is not some new discovery as more overlooked and forgotten facts. Cheaper and more efficient tech wins (that would be new). JPL still has a bunch old HD CRTs in the imaging lab. Video production still swears by them too. These do NOT perform internally like a modern flat screen, some of these comments are already insanely entertaining. Gonna sit back watch some lame hard gamers bust some wild bs about how they everything yet know nothing about crts. Crts bringing out the 'gun'"!

[VariantAEC]

Last I heard LITERALLY NO ONE SWORE BY CRT TECH (in the past 10 years).
There are loads of disadvantages to CRT that people are straight up ignoring.
CRTs don't have uniform color output (much worse than the variability in flat panel manufacturing), the additional energy consumption and heat the space they take up and the fact that yes CRTs do exhibit motion blur and only work because of how they hack our vision.

[CptDville]

There are people (Google It, I just found a few references, including tech) that still love crt rather than Led/OLED and as for a specific niche, Street Fighter and Smash players use them on Championships.
I have one PVM monitor for retro gaming (SNES, Genesis, 3DO an othrers) and a plasma 42" monitor for "vintage/modern" gaming (Ps3, Xbox, Xbox 360, Ps2 and a few others), but I personally prefer more advanced stuff (led and oled) although those are the best choice for their respective gens.

[VariantAEC]

@Quetza
Why not link no rules against it?
Anyway one link I found: https://www.digitaltrends.c...
Leads directly to DF's very own recent video on the topic others are from The Verge, Inverse and Kotaku
So Inverse had this to say: "For most of society, the rate at which our eyes can detect mild fluctuations in light and color is analogous to about 75 fps. And guess what: most CRT monitors can do 75 fps in their sleep."
Source:v https://www.inverse.com/amp...
Which is not only utterly wrong it's also patently ridiculous. The reason?
CRT TV/Monitors aren't improving games framerates for one. Melee isn't a 75hz game so it doesn't matter if you're playing on a 75hz monitor or a 75 quintillion hz monitor the game is still 60FPS.
The reason why Smash Melee players game on CRTs is explained on Kotaku... Not by Kotaku but by a commentor: https://kotaku.com/smash-br...
The individual states that they're used to avoid analogue to digital conversion which introduces lag. CRTs also have lag (despite what John at DF was saying). Lag is a physical reality and since electricity exists in the physical realm it also adheres to the laws of physics. I know that sucks but that's the reality. Digital flat panel TVs can introduce much more lag than an LCD monitor for signal processing but this step can be skipped reducing input lag as the TV/Monitor displays the image sooner. This believe it or not was still something later model enhanced definition and HD CRT monitors could also introduce.
Read and watch the videos.
https://www.resetera.com/th...
You may feel like ResetEra is a bad site well that YT video they linked to is from the Slow-Mo Guys who don't have a dog in this fight. The high speed video isn't biased.

[Picture_Dancer]

Recently, I've visited my friends paratns haouse, and they've got normal CRT TV. I've just coudn't belive how amazing the picture was. What is more it was normal, cheap 4:3 CRT TV, 480i !!! Can't imagine how the best CRT monitors display 1080p material O_o

Cheap, old CRT > high end, super expensive LCD/OLED

[MarkyMark89]

I could care less about the colors or the overall contrast ratio blah blah blah pointless stats for people like me. I run a 1080p 144hz G-Sync TN panel still, if I cared I would pay the arm and the leg for a IPS or VA panel with the same specs to get all those pretty color's. Everybody is like Crts for FPS, what are you playing on now? Let me guess you bought into the 4k hype and paid $800+ for a 27" monitor Lol idiots, idiots everywhere. How did all those colors and pixel count help that k/d ratio? :D

[autobotdan]

I play all my modern games on a 1980's 27 inch Black & White television with a RF converter JK

[mixelon]

Lol, I don’t think there were even 1980s B&W TVs that size? 😅

In the 1980s we were largely rocking ~14” TVs for our computers, if that. (But obviously in colour by then!)

[Tross]

I’m having flashbacks to that amazing LGR vid from a few years back where he plays Fallout 4 on a really old black and white CRT TV using multiple adapters just to make it work. I never would have thought to try a CRT of any kind for modern gaming but it’s neat to hear about when people try it.

[nibblo]

I always though CRT's gave a better picture but if you had a 65' monitor it would probably have a 6 foot clearance at the back and weigh the same as a small truck so unfortunately we had to move to LCD/LED flat screens as they got bigger.

[AuraAbjure]

Rear Projection 1080i CRT TVs by RCA with a DVI input produce a blood red color that is deeply impressive.

[_LarZen_]

Who else has been looking after a CRT monitor after they watched Digital Foundry talk about this? :D

[terrorofdeath]

I remember playing MGS4 on a CRT monitor. Couldn't read any text without looking reallllly close to the screen.

[jmtstan]

I played Xbox 360 games on the Sony Trinitron CRT TV, with composite cable... it was phenomenon. but then i bought a HD Ready LCD... color a bit wash out but the sharpness is amazing.

[mogwaii]

This is where digital foundry go too far up their own nerdy arse.