Another Sony Interactive Entertainment Backwards Compatibility patent goes public

Sony Interactive Entertainment has had yet another Backwards Compatibility patent go live. Today, a filing from 2017 has gone public and the creator is none other than Mr. Cerny.

[Jin_Sakai]

It’s coming. Has to be at this point.

[SuperSonic91]

PS1, PS2, PSP, PS3 and PS Vita emulation imminent?

[Eidolon]

What makes you think that?

[Tapani]

I'd love to have all my PSN games playable from PSX to PS4 on PS5. That would really make me want to pre-order the console as soon as they become available. I'd want ONE machine to run all of my PSN purchases in 4K upscaled with good emulation and enhancements. That would be a huge huge factor for me.

[bouzebbal]

This is for PS5.. Makes no sense to develop features for a console almost at the end of its lifecycle.

[SuperSonic91]

@Eidolon

Like PCs the PS5 will just be a next gen and more powerful evolution of the PS4 that can run games in 4K 60fps.

That is just the logical step forward but who knows.

[jznrpg]

Tapani it would be nice but I’m preordering day one regardless!

[Jon_Targaryen]

Id get a PS5 day one if it does that.

[MajorLazer]

Atleast PS4 for sure. The last 8 or so games (all were/are big releases) I've bought have all been through the PSN store because I hope to replay these when I get the PS5 (planning to get it on launch). PS3 and low BC would just be absolutely immense. Being able to play gems from all gens would be incredible

[frostypants]

On PS5, maybe. PS4 doesn't have enough horsepower to emulate the PS3's architecture smoothly. The overhead is just too much.

[Hardiman]

There was a legacy emulator patent filed a while back. The word was it(presumably PS5) would have tech that play PSX, PS2, PS3 and PS4 games.

[S2Killinit]

I like having all my purchased videos on there as well.

[Ricegum]

This is very interesting. Hopefully it's full BC and at the least PS4 discs are accepted. For me, the icing would be if trophies are implemented into older games.

[DarXyde]

Some interesting things concerning this patent. Take a look at the structure...

If running on the new CPU (PS5 software), it runs the application. The end.

But if it's running on the legacy CPU (i.e., backwards compatibility mode), there are some interesting implications.

"With selected available resources restricted" can mean it just shuts off extraneous processes, or something else. Not sure.

"With selected features disabled" could mean a number of things: disabling potential DLSS or real time ray tracing for software it wasn't made for (assuming it has either)? Online features? Trophy support? It's pretty ambiguous and may depend on the software on a case-by-case basis.

"Latency of instruction execution altered" is an interesting one because it not only confirms a CPU with different clock cycles (duh), but it also means that, if they are altered, titles will run differently than the legacy hardware. I'm tempted to say "better" of course, but obviously, "altered " simply suggests it will not run *the same* as the original legacy hardware.

What's quite interesting is the diagram doesn't seem to suggest it will manage all 4 modes simultaneously, but in one of 4 ways, which probably means we'll have options.

Last thing I want to say: this is the patent for how it runs with the CPU... there is nothing about the GPU, which makes me think that this is going to really up the ante on existing software in terms of graphics processing. Maybe that patent has yet to surface, but if there isn't one, it will probably try to run games in BC mode with the full weight of the GPU behind it. That's pretty damn exciting.

The article just posts the patent and I'm a bit disappointed they don't say more in terms of analysis. There's a fair amount of speculation to be gleaned from this.

[CrimsonPheonix]

no one cares about your trophies the more you have the more of a loser you are.

[Sophisticated_Chap]

Hopefully it's full BC and you have access to the digital downloads you purchased on PS3. I personally have around 70 PSN digital downloads from the PS3 era, so I will be over the moon if this comes true.

[rainslacker]

Think they're expending a lot of resources for it to not be a thing. I can't imagine they'd put cerny to all that work for just psnow or their remasters program. Honestly seems like a lot more work than is probably necessary, but maybe it's more than what we expect

[SwampthingsSon]

But what about all the Sony guys that said no one plays old games and no one wants BC? What happened to the people making fun of MS for implementing this on their current gen console? What happened?

[mkis007]

At the start of a gen, it can be important. At the middle not so much.

[chiefJohn117]

two year after launch= middle?

[JackBNimble]

Regardless the people who buy digital would like to keep one library of games rather then multiple .

[mkis007]

Chief

Sor your saying you think its just as useful 2 years in as it is on day 1 when new content is lacking?

[RangerWalk267]

Then it would make almost every PlayStation 4 owner a hypocrite. When Microsoft announced backwards compatibility, all you heard from Sony Fanboys was why not just plug in your old system we don't want to play old games. So if Sony does this it will truly show how sheepish Fanboys are

[P_Bomb]

But I do still have all my old consoles plugged in. Still have my BC PS3 memory card adapters and a game room to rep them.

There’s a couple of you guys in this thread that really need to stop with absolutes like “almost every PlayStation 4 owner a hypocrite”. After all that play together and crossplay talk, there’s still this contingent determined to divide.

[OB1Biker]

'Then it would make almost every PlayStation 4 owner a hypocrite '
Think of what you just said for one minute and maybe theres a chance you consider the possibility that self righteousness while insulting everyone is somehow questionable?

[RosweeSon]

Leaked for the hype haha

[XiNatsuDragnel]

It is coming soon

[Sono421]

I think it's for PS5 personally...

[SuperSonic91]

It is and it will support Blu-ray coz its Sony's baby.

[Eonjay]

I hope it is disc support too. It would be great to get some utility out of my old discs.

[DillyDilly]

Microsoft showed Sony the way on this one

[cd1]

@Dilly

You do know PS4 is the first PS to come without native backwards compatibility, right? MS showed nowt pal.

[Razzer]

"Microsoft showed Sony the way on this one"

lol....we don't even know what Sony has planned for BC. But of course you are going to give credit to MS regardless and pretend they invented concept of backward compatibility.

[KickSpinFilter]

@DillyDilly
On BC?
Nope PS2 and org PS3 had BC
or are you taking about up res of 360 games
or partial BC

[MasterCornholio]

@Dilly

I don’t know if Sony will use the same BC method that Microsoft uses. The most ideal form of BC is just being able to play the game with only the disk. That’s something that’s not available on the Xbox One since it requires an internet connection to download a digital copy of the game.

[hiccupthehuman]

Yeah Sony did it first. But they abandoned it and MS proved it was a valuable thing to keep continuing. Lol people here are really averse and quick to deny giving MS any credit when due.

[Relientk77]

Excited to see this announcement when they reveal the PS5. It's going to be epic, the crowd will go nuts.

[salmonade]

PS1, PS2 and PS3 BC sounds good in theory, but in reality, no one will use it. There are just too many great current gen games. Of course there will be some that use it, but it will be such a small minority.

But I guess if it's all true, then as the Xbox crowd say, "it's good to have the option there". But I can honestly say, I will never use it. Not even once. Only PS4 bc for me. That's it.

[Mr_Writer85]

I'd use it.

What you mean is "very few" would use it.

It won't matter how many people use it, the PR will be good for Sony. It blows the Switch and Xbox 1 games library out of the water.

20 + years of gaming on one console. Only PC can match that much of a back catalogue. That's if its full BC, and not just the add new titles each month approach of MS.

[WickedLester]

There are some select PS3 titles that didnt get remasters on PS4 that I'd love to play again like the Motorstorm Trilogy, Mod Nation Racers, Puppeteer, Little Big Planet 1 & 2, Killzone 2 & 3, Ni No Kuni, etc. But beyond those I wouldnt care to play anything else.

[sprinterboy]

Someone gets it

[AmUnRa]

No, i don't agree with you.

In the beginning of a new generation (PS5) BC is important. The gameportefolio will be sparse in the beginning of the PS5. When you can play at least your PS4 games on your PS5 is a really great thing. You can buy a PS5 knowing that you can play your PS4 games on it. And believe me alot of people will playing theyr PS4 backlog of games on the PS5 cous they can.
BC for all (PS, PS2, PS3) i don't know if that is gonna happen. But i think that they will be playable on PS now, streaming or and download the games on your HD.
I find it more important that i can play PS4 games on the PS5. Than i will buy it for shure after a few month the PS5 is out.

[MajorLazer]

Speak for yourself. I'd deffo use it, play some In the Hunt and Tomba from PS1, Getaway from PS2 and Demon's Souls from PS3. This is just a small glimpse of the awesome games I'd play from the PS1-PS3

[ThinkThink]

Wouldn't Sony have the same BC licensing issues that MS has with 3rd party contracts (music rights, expired contracts, etc?) Or are you thinking it's purely disc based BC? If that's the case, I still have my Battle Arena Toshinden and Crazy Ivan somewhere in the garage. My Korn Demo disc better work too. :) That T-Rex was the coolest thing I had ever seen.

[Ghostbob]

just been playing heavenly sword on ps3 so your wrong.

[rainslacker]

I'd use it. It wouldn't influence my buying decision though. Sony more than earned by business next gen with this one. Only reason that may change is if they do something stupid like try to make their system always require a net connectionx go digital only, or try and make physical games have the same DRM as digital games.

[Araragifeels]

I would like to play MGS 4 again so I would be happy, if PS5 have backward compatibility with all previous console.

[frostypants]

It won't dictate my decision to purchase, BUT I would use it if it was there. I'd love to play games like SSX Tricky still but I don't want to setup my clunky old PS2 in order to do it.

[jagermaster619]

"But but I don't want to play old games that's why I have a ps4"
You know how many times I've heard that and now all the Sony fans really want it lol.

[mkis007]

Would be funny if to show it off they demoed heavenly sword ( ninja theory) running on ps5 with enhanced framerate and graphics ( was a terribly optimized ps3 launch title).

[Tapani]

We use it now and I know a lot of my friends who are parents use it. When they give their kids a game from 90s or even 80s, these kids just play them if they are fun. Kids don't care about graphics, and besides, 2D never gets old. Even my wife prefers many of the older games from the 90s over the latest ones due to better writing and more interesting themes, but also more varied and fun gameplay. Sure some of the quality of life improvements aren't there, but it's funny how fast you get over those for a deeper experience otherwise.

[wwinterj]

Backwards compatibility isn't a system seller. It's nice to have but many folk like myself keep their old consoles and games anyway. I'm more interested in the new things the console does.

[ThinkThink]

BC is not a system seller by itself. It's more of a selling point, but those points add up when a gamer is trying to decide which system to go all in on.

[mkis007]

And selected bc is hardly a hole in one. I want to play all my games like ps2 and first run ps3 did.

[sander9702]

I really hope we get the PS5 announcement this year I just want to see next gen as soon as possible.

[Shikoku]

Im ready for too 6yrs is enough pets get next he going and with Google Stadia being announced I think that will light a fire to get PS5 going and I'm pretty sure MS with talk about the next failbox at E3 so that's another thing that could push Sony to tall about PS5.

[Shikoku]

Jesus I need to proof read

[jagermaster619]

Yes you do!

[wwinterj]

Why the rush? The PS4 and even more so PS4 pro are holding up really well.

[ThinkThink]

Because no matter how old we get, we still turn into little kids when we think about next gen. At least for me. Brings me back :)

[Mr_Writer85]

@wwinterj

Tech moves fast, look at the quality of life improvements PS4 made over PS3.

- Background downloads where better
- Share button
- Party system
- Suspend and resume.
- Full remote play
- Suspend and resume (by far my fav feature)

I'm excited not just for next gen games, but next gen console features.

Imagine if they vastly improved share play. Or your able to play a game as downloads and installs are quicker.

Or being able to switch between two digital games. Playing Spiderman, friends come on for half an hour for COD, just save state Spiderman and bam load up COD.

When your finished, a button press and back to Spiderman!

[DaDrunkenJester]

Well that's good. Despite what some people want to say, BC is a great feature.

[Flynn_Ryder_897]

Who says it isn't?

[King_Noctis]

You have to ask?

[Ricegum]

King Noctis & Jester

Everyone says its a nice feature. But unlike what a lot of Xbox fans say, BC doesn't make or break a console. New games are far more important for a console.

[SuperSonic91]

Switch has no bc

[jagermaster619]

Sony fans said it all gen because they didn't get it lol

[Thundercat77]

BC is a good feature at the start of a new console. It helps the user play his old catalog from the previous console while the new console builds its new catalog.

Releasing BC after 4 years of the release of a console and relying on it rather than making quality epic exclusive games, that's what is wrong and that's exactly what Microsoft did.

[DaDrunkenJester]

Okay, whatever you say. Are you suggesting they should have just waited instead? You realize that the team's who did BC aren't the same ones who create and develop video games, right?

[gtxgamer2]

If I can download games from the ps3 and ps4 days onto ps5 I'd go nuts lol

[WickedLester]

You guys are going to be disappointed to learn that this will NOT be what you think/hope it is. This isnt going to allow you to play PS1, PS2, or PS3 disks that you own. It's going to be for the PS store where you can purchase select legacy titles digitally. I'm telling you guys, dont get your hopes up.

[fsfsxii]

Thats fine! I already have a lot of PS1 titles bought during the PS3 era

[ocelot07]

That is ok I don't own any PS3 disk titles. But have 7 years worth of PS3 digital titles thanks to PS+. Then again I will only most likely replay Demon's Souls and MGS4.

[KickSpinFilter]

Na fully expecting PS5 will play all PS4 games
PS4 will not play PS5 games
PS 1,2,3 PSNow stream or download option for rest but not all PS1,2,3 games.

[WickedLester]

I purposely left out PS4 games because I think PS5 will play PS4 disks. However PS1, 2, and 3 games will be digital only.

[rainslacker]

They already have that. I dont see the need to have so many patents for an emulator. Emulation isn't really BC, and if it were being used for that then the description of the process would be different, because half these patents dont use what we consider emulation in how they're described. Its not a hardware solution like Sony has done in the past, but some of these patents seem rather specific to get them to work on very specific kinds of hardware while maintaining the original code.

Actually making them work off disc without the hardware may need permission like what ms does, but beyond that, there are a lot of possibilities for how this can be used....or even if it will be used.

[BlaqMagiq1]

If it's full native BC for every PS platform the PS5 will be an automatic Day 1 buy.

[Razzer]

Native BC isn't possible for consoles prior to PS4 unless they include actual hardware for every past PS console and thus make the thing unaffordable. If prior systems are included for BC then it will be done via emulation like Xbox 360 games on Xbox One. Even PS4 BC will need some tweaks on a system level to avoid every developer having to patch their games to be playable on PS5. I think this patent is probably part of that solution.

[Xavi4K]

or emulator

[itsmebryan]

But, why? Sony said no one really uses BC so why are they adding it? And will they make you pay for it?

[Razzer]

Sony said that mid-generation when BC isn't nearly as useful. Including it at launch is useful as new consoles games are scarce. And I seriously doubt they will make you pay more to play games you already own. This isn't like a PS Now type service.

[Thundercat77]

But this is common sense. Why do you expect him understand that?

[salmonade]

The BC that every single person wants in PS5 to be BC with ALL PS4 titles.

The other types of BC whatever they are, are just a bonus, if it's true. I personally won't ever use this type of BC. Only PS4 to PS5, the vast majority will only care about this also.

[KickSpinFilter]

word

[KickSpinFilter]

BC is great at the launch of a new console, but 5 years in it really doesn't matter much anymore. It's a cute bonus to have, but 5 years in little too late.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Companies say a lot of things. Fact is it's been one of the high points for Microsoft, and people have been asking for it, regardless of what Sony says. When a brand stops listening to their audience, that's when you have a problem.

[rainslacker]

They didn't say no one uses it. They said that it wasn't important enough to influence people's buying decisions, and while people use it, it wasn't an oft used feature. I would have thought that was common sense, but apparently its not.

[Fluttershy77]

I remember a lot of you saying: Who cares about BC, is not what we want bla bla, I prefer remasters bla bla

[salmonade]

That's still true. Everyone has always said, including Sony, that basically no one uses it, cares about it or even wants it. Options are nice. There are a few people who really REALLY want this. But the majority just don't care. PS5 bc with PS4 titles is an absolute must. If that's not there, it's a big problem

[Imalwaysright]

Who is this everyone you keep talking about?

[Kiwi66]

Looks like more people do want it rather than just a few

[KickSpinFilter]

Actually we said this.
BC is great at the launch of a new console, but 5 years in it really doesn't matter much anymore. It's a cute bonus to have, but 5 years in little too late.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

I remember when something that some people said wasn't representative of every single person. The whole point from the beginning was that backward compatibility wasn't the return of Christ anyway. It was always a nice feature, but not the revolution that Microsoft was praised for.

[ZaWarudo]

If i can simply pop in my PS4 games then this might be the first console i buy early.

[salmonade]

I would think that this is extremely likely. I hope for this too. I think Sony know that just have to do this.

[Skuletor]

I hope the PS5 gets native PS2 disc support, some games probably won't be on the digital store because of licensing issues, like expired soundtrack licenses.

[KickSpinFilter]

I'm pretty sure it's not going to, think that it will be through PSNow

[rainslacker]

Sony doesn't have a lot of ps3 titles in the store to begin with. They had the ps2 classics last gen, but there weren't that many overall. They have a few of the remastered classics this gen with the added trophy support, but chances are you won't get those with just popping in your disc

[Skuletor]

True but I didn't need trophies to enjoy the games back then and won't need them now. I assume any games added to the digital store would likely add them though.

[rainslacker]

I meant to say they don't have a lot of PS2 titles.

And no, I don't need the trophies either. Just saying they have those now for PS4. I have a few games with them, and it's kind of cool to be able to go back and play some of them for that. I usually get them when they're on sale. The typical $15-20 asking price is a bit much for a digital remaster just to get the trophies, especially since i own most of the one's I'd care to play.

I wouldn't assume that they'd be added. Sometimes it may not be worth it. But i think it might be worth the effort since I understand it's not that hard to do. A trophy list alone can cause a lot of people to play it just to get them, and some may feel it's worth it to be able to replay a game they once liked. But, I still doubt you'll see that done for BC titles that we have to download digitally, assuming Sony does something to MS.

Time will tell.

[Einhander1971]

Mr Cerny this guy is genius, hopefully this will be in ps5. Forget Stadia the ps5 will be next big thing.

[AK91]

Dear God let this be true

[DillyDilly]

The question is will the old games be digital or will we gotta buy the Discs

[MasterCornholio]

Or maybe you can just pop in a PS4 disk to play the game without having to download a digital copy?

That’s another possibility. Also you don’t need to buy the disk or digital copy if you already owned it on the PS4.

[Alek83]

Good. It has to have it. I am enjoying my Xbone so much because of this. Having gone with a PS3 the previous gen, I missed a lot of cool 360 games that are a blast to play.

[SegaSaturn669]

Mark Cerny > Satoru Iwata

[isarai]

this is like watching a bowling ball slowly making it down the center of the lane, hopefully it doesn't wiff at the last second

[Xavi4K]

hypocrites level 99...
Xbox do BC...
all N4G: who wants to play old games...meh...
Sony do BC: god yes!...big win for sony!...can't wait....

lol....anyway...having the ability to play our old games is always a good thing and I'm happy to play my ps2 and 1 games on Ps5

[ShadowWolf712]

The entire reason that was not, and should not be, a selling point is that it was near the end of the gen when it was implemented. BC is most important at the start, when you have a sparse library. By that point, MS should have provided their users with plenty to play, but instead hyped up BC releases as if they were new game announcements.

[MasterCornholio]

Well to be honest it would be a lot more easier to make the PS5 BC with the PS4 than the PS3.

Anyways native real BC would be a win for Sony since Microsoft method requires you to download a digital version of the game which they have to provide.

[Xavi4K]

well to my knowledge you could just insert 360 disk and play the game right away

[Razzer]

That and as I've said before, BC is most valuable at the beginning of the gen. When a gen is producing new games the old ones are not nearly as appealing. The difference in MS adding Xbox 360 to Xbox One two years after the gen started versus Sony including it at the very beginning is significant. People are pretending they are the same thing. Just not true.

"well to my knowledge you could just insert 360 disk and play the game right away"

No. Not every 360 game is available for emulation on Xbox One.

[MasterCornholio]

@Xavi

Not really I own an Xbox One X and I bought the Dead Space Trilogy and Oblivion GOTY edition and none of them let me play the game the minute I popped it in. I had to download digital copies of those games in order to be able to play them. That isn’t the same as old school BC which only requires the data on the disk to be able to play the game.

https://www.reddit.com/r/xb...

@Razzed

And it requires an internet connection to work since you have to download a digital copy of the game. Which Xavi is trying to ignore btw.

[zahdab]

All this is saying is that if a game is made for a legacy CPU, it should run with limited resources made available so that it doesnt run at excessive speeds and run in environment similar to the original one it was intended for.
Most likely this is to get ps4 games running ons ps5 ... not mention of emulation and whatnot

[Imortus_san]

They are on the good track, I wont buy a PS5 if it does not read at least PS4 games.

[Thundercat77]

Some people doesn't understand the difference so I will give more light...

BC is a good feature at the start of a new console. It helps the user play his old catalog from the previous console while the new console builds its new catalog.

Releasing BC after 4 years of the release of a console and relying on it rather than making quality epic exclusive games, that's what is wrong and that's exactly what Microsoft did.

[Flewid638]

My only concern is...they dont manufacture any of these games anymore. People who want to make full use of this that dont already own them, can only access but so many available returned/unopened games.

[BlackShark001]

PS5 being backwards compatible to the PS4 has been a given ever since they revealed the specs of the PS4. This really is barely news.

[FanboysKiller]

Still own original MGS2 and 3 boxes and couple of PS3 discs, can't wait!

[InKnight7s]

I was so insisting to have BC on PS4, but nah got early Fat Ps3 model for less than $100 and I am having fun with all Pre Ps4 games. Thinking about hacking it and get access emulartor, but I am so busy with Division 2, and willing to get DMC5, Sekiro, Days gone and FFXV new expansion. Also I am waiting for these games: Dragon ball RPG project, FFVIIR, Last of Us part 2, Granblue Fantasy, Platinium new game, and the new GOW. Nevertheless have one big backlog to finish. So yeah BC is not necessary in any mean for now.

[mastershredder]

Dudes. Don't go wild when a 19 year old post links about patents without researching it or dos not understand what it is he is looking at.

Assumptions are a biznatch. This is old stuffs.

[Platformgamer]

yeah, it's called playstation now, when it will contain all ps1/2/3 games

[Veneno]

i would lov to play SOCOM Confrontation Warhawk and Resistance Online allover again!!!

[Hardiman]

This is interesting and if all the patents that have been coming to light recently, it'd be easy to connect the dots that the PS5 will have BC. Admittedly I never used BC much but I would love to play my backlog of PS4 games on my launch PS5! If it does emulate or play PSX, PS2, PS3 and PS4 titles, fantastic and it would give Sony even more goodwill.

I just want them to continue to focus on solid SP games. Which is what Layden has stated is the case. Looking forward to what's coming!

[MetroidFREAK21]

Hype!

[mkis007]

There are too many patents for this to be simple bc. They are making games upgradeable when new hardware comes out for the future.

[Donnie81]

Probably charge for it

[Al_Simmons]

Just give me Ps2 and 3 games. Enhance at least the big titles overtime. Like what xbox does

[Stanjara]

All my PS4 games are digital. Also have some PS3 games from psPlus, so my account is ready.

[Father__Merrin]

These last 3 years I've missed out on many PlayStation exclusives with bcc il be able to catch up on ps5

[Mr Marvel]

My dream would be a PS5 that plays every PS1, PS2, PS3 & PS4 disc with trophy support.
The ability to play PSP/PSV games digitally would be a nice bonus too.