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Sony Patents Possible PS5 Backward Compatibility Method Invented by Mark Cerny

The house of PlayStation, Sony Interactive Entertainment, registered a patent with the Japan Patent Office which seems to have "PS5" written all over it.

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WANNAGETHIGH663d ago

We really need BC, I mean how can PS2 support it but his big brothers dose not? Crazy ain’t it. You will think with tech cheaper to make now than it was 20 years ago that BC will be the norm for both Sony and Microsoft.

Zeref663d ago

It already is the norm for Microsoft.

Every Xbox console has had Backwards compatibility.

IRetrouk663d ago (Edited 663d ago )

Limited emulation, not bc, I can't play any of my pgrs, full bc was on ps2 and the more expensive 60g ps3, both 360 and the one use emulation, its not the same thing, each game has to be reworked before working.

Teflon02663d ago

Zeref
Thought Zeref was smarter than that. *FAIRY TAIL EP 290 SPOILER*
Then again you ruined Mavis' life and then ended it so I don't have kind words for you

Foreal though, PS2 didn't use emulation. PSOne didn't require anything special to run on PS2. But SOny used the Emotion Engine for PS2. It's not the typical setup meaning for a game to run on hardware that doesn't have the Emotion built in. It required the game being emulated while being modified by the emulation process to run properly. The exact same case for the PS3 where they used the Cell. Maybe wondering why they did. They both proved to have hidden potential that pushed past what a similar setup could do otherwise but required more work to get going. It's why some PS2 and PS3 games don't run as good as the X360, NGC and XBox. They weren't simple port jobs. It's also why PS3 games that weren't made on PS3 and ported out to other consoles were usually a pretty decent downgrade but when you did them on PS3 first they were usually above standard. PS5 will lively Run PS3 titles like PS4 runs PS2 and so on. Next gen everything should overall run on one console. But even PC can't run every old PC game without modifications and tweaks as somethings were made to specifically take advantage of just the exact hardware of the time of creation etc

Obscure_Observer663d ago (Edited 663d ago )

@IRetrouk

"Limited emulation, not bc"

Well, hopefully Sony will achieve native BC. Otherwise, is gonna be very funny to see you people referring to PS5´s BC as "Limited Emulation". ;)

TKCMuzzer663d ago

Er, because the PS2 had the hardware to run PS1 games as did the PS3 60GB. They have to use emulation these days to keep the costs down and that alone brings its own technical issues.

remixx116663d ago

@obscure

Why is it funny to you? Why the winky face? Are you that much of a fanboy that it makes you feel good? He was just pointing out a flaw in Zerefs statement.

You people are weird and get pleasure from the oddest shit.

Zenbaby369663d ago

@Teflon02 Correct me if I'm wrong, but because ps3 was with the cell processors, the idea of BC on ps5 is a fairy tale right? It would literally HAVE to be emulation unless they decided to go back to the cell processors for ps5 "which they won't obviously". They just simply don't work the same right?

WelkinCole663d ago

For PS3 it had at the start but it was too expensive for games that they didn't care.

For PS4 the PS3 architecture also means that they would have to baiscally do another mini PS3 inside the PS4

PS5 though I am pretty sure they will go software instead of hardware which would be significantly cheaper to have PS4 BC. I am sure it will have PS4 BC in there

XiNatsuDragnel663d ago

Nii san @Spoiler you're not alone I'm worried about you as family.

Forreal though dude chill on the Ps hate train

IRetrouk663d ago

Obscure, if that's what it is when it comes out that's what I will call it..... Don't really see the point you are trying to make to be honest, what I said is true.

Bronxs15663d ago

wow what biased goggles some ppl have. saying ps2/3 back compat was better than xbox one's because xbox one uses emulation. do you all realize that the emulation improves the game? put a ps2 game in a ps3 it plays the same as it did on ps2. put some xbox 360 games like orange box or red dead redemption in xbox one and they play in 4k! not to mention faster loading, better frames etc...you can keep your ps2 hardware emulation!

IRetrouk662d ago

Nobody said one way was better than the other, just that the xbox does not offer full bc, but limited emulation, which is what it is, the ps2 and original 60g ps3 were full bc machines, there is a difference, I just pointed it out.

+ Show (9) more repliesLast reply 662d ago
locomorales663d ago

The concept of BC is obsolete. Every major game company works now with the idea of platform like Android and iOS have stabilished. I thought PlayStation 4 Pro and Xbox One X had make it clear.

Sony won't show PS5 as a BC console, but as a newer hardware for PlayStation owners. It'll have software that PS4 ans PS4 Pro can't handle, of course, but forget the idea of BC.

Eonjay663d ago

How many hints can they give? It will be BC.

locomorales663d ago

People think I'm saying PS5 won't be compatible with PS4 games. It will. But the idea is different from BC from PS1 to PS2.

The compatibility will be similar to Android devices or Windows where you have an ecosystem. Newer hardware will support legacy software by default and not by BC. They want you to carry your PSN account over, and keep buying old games.

Abriael663d ago (Edited 663d ago )

Actually Locomorales is likely right. If PS5 and PS4 have exactly the same architecture, just with different power, and honestly, why wouldn't they? It's the simplest and most basic you can get.

In that case, you don't NEED backward compatibility. You can simply run PS4 games natively like you can easily run most windows 7 games on windows 10. The only issue would be tricking the game's security system to believe that it's being run by a PS4, otherwise it won't run.

And this is exactly what this patent addresses.

The PS4 is basically a PC. The PS5 is basically going to be a more powerful PC. What "compatibility" do you need besides telling the game "hey, don't worry, I'm a PS4, I can run you"?

Compatibility is nice, but the ability to run the games natively makes it obsolete.

Eonjay663d ago

I see what you are saying but I encourage you to actually read the patent and description of the process being patented. It suggests that even though the newer hardware is capable of running legacy software, it is sometime more appropriate to have a method for customizing the process of the CPU so that you can avoid timing issues. It sounds like hardware level emulation of a legacy CPU.

Abriael663d ago (Edited 663d ago )

@Eonjay: I have, but that sounds more like an issue solver comparable to compatibility mode in windows, and not a standard procedure. You use it only when you need it, not all the time.

My prediction is that games will run natively most of the time, without need of any help besides tricking them into believing they're running on PS4, with some compatibility workarounds in case of specific issues.

notachance663d ago

I've said this time and time again and I'm gonna repeat it: in the future console games will have minimum and recommended requirement instead of completely separated by generation, eg. minimum PS4Pro & XB1X, recommended PS5 & XB2

like how software in PC and smartphone is right now.

Markusb33663d ago

That makes no sense or logic at all.
The idea of cross platform games is very pro consumer and a way to shift ps4 users to ps5. Taking your library physical or digital is a big bonus on any platform

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Obscure_Observer663d ago

Let´s see if they can achieve NATIVE backwards compatibility for all games!

Eonjay663d ago

It seems to be where they are going. Obviously this point to hardware level support.

Razzer663d ago

lol....why wouldn't it be native? It is still AMD architecture. For all games or for all PS4 games? Because "native' BC isn't possible for all PlayStation games without embedding the actual hardware. You do realize that Xbox One does not have "native" BC....right?

Silly gameAr663d ago

Like they did for PS2 and PS3?

rainslacker663d ago

I like how yesterday you were using the question of bc to say why Sony is behind, and is the one that needs to catch up, and today, you're questioning if it will be native bc. Is that going to be the new thing for you to bring Sony down.

Just curious, because it gets hard to keep up with what matters to you, so I like to stay ahead of the game.

UltraNova663d ago

Rain,

He's just salty that Sony just keeps ticking boxes...

Obscure_Observer660d ago

@rainslacker

"I like how yesterday you were using the question of bc to say why Sony is behind, and is the one that needs to catch up, and today, you're questioning if it will be native bc. Is that going to be the new thing for you to bring Sony down."

To me, BC is a GREAT selling point. To you, (and some of your peers) it´s just a "nice feature to have". So, since you already said that you don´t care about BC, i´m gonna answer to your question out of respect, because i you clearly failed to notice the sarcasm on my statement. I was just making fun out of fanboys whose used to brag about Sony´s native BC on a few PS3 consoles while referring to Xbox One´s BC as "Limited emulation, not bc". READ my original post.

That said, i´m completely aware that it´s IMPOSSIBLE to make PS5 consoles that features native backwards compatibility with all of the Playstation family consoles, without a massive impact on the console´s final price. Price, was one of the reasons that made Sony drop BC support on PS3.

You see, nobody wants to bring Sony down because BC or the lack of it. That´s your obssesion and paranoia about everyone who´s make any criticism regarding Sony taking the best of you. I want Playstation to be better. If they will follow/copy Microsoft or Nintendo on whatever they´re doing, it´s fine by me. More the merrier. They already allowed downloadable PS4 games following Game Pass. I think they will make new Playstation games avaliable on PS Now, soon. And i know that you gonna be pissed the momment people start to thank Phil Spencer for making PS Now better. Because that´s part of your childsh/ungrateful nature.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 660d ago
SuperSonic91663d ago

"Its all part of the plan".

Fil101663d ago

I might be wrong but as soon as they announced that ps+ online storage was being bumped up to a whopping 100 G. The first thing I thought was that ps5 has to be backwards compatible it makes a lot of sense and I’ll bet a lot of people have already come to this conclusion.

UnholyLight663d ago

I sure hope so this would be so awesome!

Bronxs15663d ago

if this happens backward compatibility will now become the best thing since slice bread for all ps fanboys. despite them all downplaying back compat on xbox one now lol

mkis007662d ago

For the start of a new generation it is ideal. 3 years in is kinda too late to really mean the same thing.

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DaGR8JIBRALTAR663d ago

It has to have this feature..please Sony don't be stupid.

WANNAGETHIGH663d ago

I don’t know why people are disagreeing with you. I can’t count the amount of time I booted on my og ps3 just so I could play Kz2. Would be much nicer if I could just insert the CD in my PS4.

dumahim663d ago (Edited 663d ago )

Because it doesn't need the feature. There's a lot of people who don't care about BC.

edit: As evidence, look how well PS4 did without BC.

ABizzel1663d ago

@dumahim

That's because neither console had BC at launch. It's not a huge feature / benefit 3+ years into a consoles lifecycle, since only a select few games from last-gen are likely to be played by gamers, but it is a VERY strong selling point, and a way to ease gamers into upgrading to the successor of the console they already have if their current game library can be played on the new console.

It allows gamers to sell their current console to help ease the cost of the new +$400 machine, and allows them to have games to play during the inevitable Year 1 drought.

So it's important to an extent, and it's important for simply having a complete library of games, it's just not a huge benefit 3 years down the road.

WelkinCole663d ago

Yeah its more of a convenience thing than a must have.

But PS5 games and price is top priority.

If Sony manages to do a software BC that would not increase the price much then that would be ok as well

dumahim663d ago

@ABizzel1

It's important for people who care about BC, but it seems a lot of people seem to keep ignoring that there's a lot of people who don't care. It wasn't a "needed" feature then, it isn't a "needed" feature the next time around either.

ABizzel1662d ago

@dumahim

It's just a matter of catering to the largest possible group to maximize sales. There people who don't care simply won't use it, but not having it prevents the people who do care from bringing their library over and run the risk of losing that market at launch or worse to the competitor.

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663d ago Replies(14)
OffRoadKing663d ago

It doesn't have to. The majority of Playstation gamers buy new hardware to play new games. Couldn't care less rather it has it or not, the only upside will be that hopefully it will finally shut people up.

starchild663d ago

Well, at least you're being consistent. Can't say the same for most of these hypocrites.

But I strongly disagree with you. I care a lot about backwards compatibility. It's one of the things that draws me to the PC and makes it my main gaming platform. If the PS5 does offer backwards compatibility it will be one large step towards making me interested in using it for more than just the occasional exclusive.

I'm glad Sony doesn't listen to the extremists trying to downplay backwards compatibility. They know that people like that are a tiny fraction of the PS4 userbase and don't represent normal gamers that buy their platforms.

BizarroUltraman663d ago

That could be said for all gamers. The buy the new stuffand Xbox has always had a good attachment rate.

You douches say you don't like yet go on forums and you're begging for it. Lol...

OffRoadKing662d ago

@starchild

You're right Sony doesn't listen to the extremists that's why they dont do BC. People trying to play it up are a tiny fraction of the user base and dont represent normal gamers that want new gaming experiences. The other larger portion of those playing it up are xbot fanboys using it as an excuse to troll and attack Sony.

sampsonon663d ago

if i have a choice between them using their resources on BC or brand new AAA games, ditch the BC please. it's not that important.

Mr_Writer85663d ago

What? Why can't they do both? The people behind the hardware and the OS side of things are not the ones making games.

What a silly thing to say.

kayoss663d ago

@Mr_Writer
You cant do both if the PS4 and Xbox One didnt come with BC capability out of the gate. Microsoft decided to add BC capability to the xbox one after the release of the console. This take resources and development time. This is why people are bashing Microsoft. They put so much resources on BC for the xbox one and neglected AAA exclusive games. They deserves all the ridicule for not prioritizing whats more important to fans.

663d ago
sampsonon663d ago

@Mr_Writer85: ask MS why. it all costs money, and they have a budget. you can't be that naive?

sampsonon663d ago

@shaggy2303: "You think it's one or the other? You think the team that works on BC also develops games?"
it's about resources. companies set a budget and then decide where the money will be used.
so making a game BC costs money, cheaper than making a new IP, so that costs cuts into the overall budget for the division.

i thought people understood the basics.

starchild663d ago (Edited 663d ago )

No, kayoss, that's dumb. Microsoft should be criticised for slacking on exclusives, but they should be praised for backwards compatibility. They have plenty of money to do both. It was simply poor business decisions they made.

That doesn't mean you turn around and start downplaying backwards compatibility itself.

Mr_Writer85662d ago

@kayoss

You literally just posted drivel.

MS adding BC to the X1 has nothing to do with 1st party studios making games, the fact that MS are adding more games to X1 and buying new studios to make more exclusives proves this.

The developers behind the Xbox features are separate from the developers of games.

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porkChop663d ago

So the CPU would essentially receive a call/order and then emulate a specified older CPU to provide BC. That likely wouldn't be necessary for PS4 games as it would be the same architecture. This could be used to emulate the Cell though, providing PS3 BC. Now that would be great to see.

IRetrouk663d ago

Has to be ps3, all rumors point to Sony sticking with amd, which obvs makes sense, so like you say, the cpu won't be all that diff, hopefully that means the ps2s emotion engine can be done too, getting ahead of myself though, I would be happy with ps4 bc, anything else will be a bonus.

Dark_Knightmare2663d ago (Edited 663d ago )

Yeah as long as I can carry my PS4 collection over I’ll be one happy camper

MajorLazer663d ago

PS3 emulation would be heaven

663d ago
Saigon663d ago

@L7CHAPEL

Based on the description applied in this article and what @porkChop stated, it looks like they may have solved the PS3 issue. There are a lot of rumors on the net that state the new PS5 chip-set is powerful enough to emulate the the PS3 but this article looks like Sony is taking it a step further.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 663d ago
Razzer663d ago

I don't know. It is talking about one CPU "impersonating" another. That sounds like PS5 to PS4 BC more than anything else. There is no way to "impersonate" the Cell processor. You've got to emulate it in software.

rainslacker663d ago

Emulators just translate code, but more so, handle the output and input from the software. This patent doesn't seem to translate in the same way. Plus, it seems more versatile from a support perspective.

Mr_Writer85663d ago

IF the PS5 has PS1-4 BC then that's a huge win for Sony.

I for one would smack down even £600 for it.

Zeref663d ago

Xbox does this already at no extra cost.

The Wood663d ago (Edited 663d ago )

Yes zeref it did do it eventually and what does 'no extra cost' mean? Are Sony in the habit of fleecing their customers or something?

If they implement this correctly the next console will fly off the shelves quicker than they did this gen which would be a kick in the teeth for the next box if they launch around the same time again. Just look at the back catalogue ps guys have to choose from compared to the Xbox one. Hopefully enhanced too so where MS done well with bc Sony smashed em to bits with current games which makes their bc more of a pull because of quality available

mkis007663d ago

Zeref stop stretching the truth. The games are reworked to be compatible with xbox1 they do not offer full bc. can't pop in all my games they aren't all compatible.

There has not been a full bc console since the OG ps3 which could play ps1-ps3 100% no updates required.

Mr_Writer85663d ago

@zeref

When did Xbox start having PS1-4 games?

663d ago
Mr_Writer85663d ago (Edited 663d ago )

@shaggy

I think he means with more than 1 gen.

The PS3 was the only console that could play any game released on any home console PlayStation.

The WiiU for example couldn't play physical NES or Snes games for example.

Melankolis663d ago

@Zeref
True. I appreciate Xbox to have done BC. Be it a main feature (because of lacks of exclusive games) or a complementary for XBO i still appreciate it.

But i think Mr_Writer originally meant is that the games library PS1 to PS4 are soooo huge. Not only huge, but also high quality. That he would even better pay £600 than getting Xbox BC for free!.

So comparing Playstation BC with Xbox BC, the real question might be "how much will we get"? rather than "how much it cost?"

Teflon02663d ago

I swear if they brought out a Ultimate version of the PS5 with the Emotion and Cell built in at a premium and it uses the extra power to upgrade the games to 4K. I would easily pay a serious premium for it. I know it probably wouldn't be the popular version of the console. But I think the hardcore would buy it out crazy fast. PS4 running on PS5 will be as simple as me starting a PS3 gen game on steam with my GTX 1080 and running at 4K lol.
Wishful thinking but it would be awesome.

663d ago
Mr_Writer85663d ago (Edited 663d ago )

@shaggy

I know you're being sarcastic with the wisdom comment, but it helped cut the cost of the console, which meant they could cut the price and helped them to cut a huge chunk out of the 360s market share.

I don't need to find one as I do have one, but £90 isn't that bad.

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