Total War Rating Plummets Due To Women Generals

There are hosts of reasons why games can suffer bad reviews on Steam, from poor game design to lame stories, a poor fighting system was why I marked down the last game I played. However, this is the first time I’ve seen a game marked down due to possessing too many women characters.

[Jinger]

Sad

[DedicatedDark]

Yes. Sad that wiping history clean has become a norm.

[DexSun]

Even though you can re-enact several historical battles in game and change the outcome...that's not accurate either so throws your argument out the window. Ohhhhhhhhhh but it's only a problem of "wiping history" if women are involved...god forbid If games have options to make them interesting. And sorry to say but you're nothing less than stupid if you think a game for entertainment has an real life impact on how historical events are viewed.

[cyclindk]

How is it history, it's a game with TONS of absolute historical inaccuracy...

Look up Boudica, it's not so farfetched to omit their presence in a GAME of all things...

[DedicatedDark]

For the guys who say winning battles meant to be lost etc.., are historical inaccuracies. There is a difference b/w a game setting and it's narrative. The setting must be fully realized, the narrative is on the player to create and that is done through how the player forges his path.

[LightofDarkness]

That argument is a whole arbitrary load of nothing. You still haven't addressed how historical inaccuracies suddenly don't matter when it affects this idealised "setting" you suddenly hold in the highest regard. That's a completely subjective and "emotional" argument that serves only to obfuscate and misdirect.

[nyu1]

@LightofDarkness

No, it's the other argument that's a load of nothing.

Historical inaccuracies don't stop mattering, but just because you have compromised somewhere, doesn't make it a good argument to compromise somewhere else, regardless of the actual case, and the pros and cons. It doesn't make sense, and you can see this if you think about the vision of any game - it's a balance. In a game like this you general have as much realism as you can without messing with more important features.

Compromising on accuracy in terms of who won battles is necessary for this type of game to even exist. I'd say that's good enough justification, so it makes sense to do it.

Why would you want to compromise on realism by simply making a large percent of soldiers women (or whatever they did here), where you wouldn't expect that to be the case ? What does it add ? What's the justification ?

It's like when people say "Oh so you're upset about character customization in battlefield but you're okay with people being resurrected by medics". It's an incredibly stupid argument. Yes, games will always compromise on some things. That doesn't automatically justify every other compromise in any and every aspect. Some people want as much realism as possible. Ofcourse they'll be upset. It's common sense.

Imagine if Halo (or some other sci fi franchise) devs made some non sensical change to the covenant for no reason, and when fans get angry, you start pointing out some gameplay mechanic that doesn't fully fit into the lore and asking "oh so you're okay with this but not that?", as if they didn't have a legitimate complaint. It's especially silly when you compare setting/narrative aspects with gameplay mechanics or things that are fundamental to gameplay.

[LightofDarkness]

Again, this is not some fundamental game play change. Some avatars will appear as female. If you have all decided that this is something worth fighting against and writing walls of meandering, pointless drivel then you deserve all of the negative attention you receive and I hope there are few women in your lives. In fact, I'd nearly count on it.

[lipton101]

Get over yourself. Inclusion is not bad. You’re the problem in the gaming community. When you’re gone, your internet outrage will be forgotten. You’ll never make an impact on the world by exerting hate.

[PapaBop]

Yeah it's sad that we're seeing developers pander like this by shoehorning the opposite gender into their games. I think it's great that it's blowing up in their faces and will likely force devs to reconsider in future I'm all for women generals but do so in a setting that fits instead of forcing it.

[Jinger]

Ya'll get worked up about the most non consequential shit.

[lipton101]

If this upsets you then you have a sad, meaningless life.

[JunMei]

Wow. People like you do exist. Disgusting.

[PapaBop]

Why would this upset me? In fact I'm quite enjoying it. They tried pandering and got slapped in the face for doing so.

[3-4-5]

Origins was good...this game should be about the same gameplay wise....not sure how the rating could be a ton worse unless.....sjw backlash or it was a buggy mess.

Won't be playing it because I was burnt out on AC:Origins....long game...gets repetitive and I've had my fill of AC games for 1-2 years....I'll wait for the next gen AC game.

[Name Last Name]

lol this is not about Odissey

[swordofjustice96]

Steam brings out the best in people.

[ZaWarudo]

350 negative reviews within 24 hours, mostly about women generals. lol.

Probably the same folks that review bombed Wolfenstein 2 because of its "Not my America" marketing.

Pretty funny, actually. They despise SJWs so much, but throws the same tantrums.

[Doge]

What’s funnier is that the same people are here if you look at the agree/disagree ratio on the comments.

Incels, man.

[lipton101]

Absolutely. Incels and red pill neck beard scumbags.

They sit there in their dark corner of nowhere, surrounded by screens and buttons and think they’re making a difference by spewing hate and vitriol.

They won’t make a difference. Their existence is meaningless. When they’re gone they won’t be remembered individually for anything notable. Just as a toxic byproduct of a toxic time that came and went.

[CaptainObvious878]

What a pathetic bunch of people you are. Just assuming anyone that doesn't follow your cancerous pro feminist stance is immediately an incel and using it as a pejorative, like there's something hateful about all of them.

The only pathetic sexists I see are you and your kind.

[JunMei]

CaptainObivious, I'm sorry, but attacking people who are attacking isn't hate. It's defense. They are not the initial attackers. It's like when people say they should be discriminated against for discriminating against people. Seriously, guys. come on. Let's use our brains here.

Also, I don't know you know what feminism is. A lot of people seeem to think it has something to do with the domination of men or some other hogwash like that. It's just about equal representation. For example, a house wife is no more offensive than a house husband. But having only one representation is just factually inaccurate.

Ad to be clear, spitting out hate and vitriol is quite in fact hateful. Defending it and calling people out on it is not. Please, let's be logical about this people. People disagreeing with you doesn't make them hateful. Take a moment of time and really examine yourselves and consider the possibility that folks who spit this nonsense are indeed instigators of hate and ignorance and have become a poison seeping in the world, distorting goodness.

[PhantomTommy]

I do have to wonder if there is any crossover between the lads bemoaning politics in games and review bombing Wolf 2, and those now praising DOOM: Eternal for what they perceive to be "anti-immigration" messages in the Quakecon gameplay footage. Ah well.

At the same time, this ROME 2 thing is a little bit silly. If you're adding a feature to your game which is purely aesthetic and has absolutely no impact on the gameplay, then why not make it optional? You can have your historically accurate game but also give players the option to mess around with it if they want to. I think the user reviews would be just fine if this was a feature you could enable and disable in the options menu.

[Liqu1d]

"those now praising DOOM: Eternal for what they perceive to be "anti-immigration" messages in the Quakecon gameplay footage."

They weren't the ones who perceived it that way. It was far-leftists who tried to claim Doom was anti-immigration and were using terms like "mortally challenged" and "demon" to insult and dehumanise immigrants, naturally the far-right took a complete opposite stance and praised Doom while every other normal person realised there was no "anti-immigration" message or any political message whatsoever.

[PhantomTommy]

If there is no perceived political message then why are there so many comments on every DOOM: Eternal video claiming that the game is a middle finger to SJWs? People saying they are going to pre-order the game simply because of the "Mortally challenged" line. Can you explain how the game is a middle finger to SJWs if there is no perceived political message?

Of course, these people are idiots who either didn't understand the story in DOOM 2016 or didn't play it. I'm just pointing it out.

[nyu1]

There are definitely people like that. You only have to look at the comments on all those youtube videos about Doom to see that.

That doesn't make the Rome 2 complaints invalid. The same about Battlefield 5. The fact of the matter is some people are pandering and compromising on their creative vision to achieve it. Although with Battlefield 5 it's also largely a matter of monetization (still not a good answer).

[Garrett_the_GOD]

Well,atleast Machine Games made it clear they were going with an alternate reality..We all know the nazis didnt win the war so its a weak comparison..if they dont want this type of backlash they can either be historically accurate,they can make games based on modern events and/or like Machine Games they can be clear from the beginning it is set in an alternate reality...ijs

[kreate]

Not sure if I throw tantrums but I also despise SJW.

[ginganinja]

Another funny thing. The update happened about six months ago, so they either hadn't noticed they'd been 'SJW'ed' or they've never played the game and are just throwing their toys out the pram because someone's told them to.

[CaptainObvious878]

Or maybe if you actually did your research you'd see if was the devs insulting the player base that set this off.

[ginganinja]

@CaptainObvious878
So, why did the devs 'insult' the 'player base' ? Just for fun or was it to quiet down some morons who were making a mountain out of a molehill (hint, it's the latter)
Were the majority of the 'player base' insulted ? Not really - as continually evidenced on sites like the Total war subreddit where it remains a non-issue.
So, when did this really blow up ? When it was featured on GG site OneAngryGamer which was then referenced on a neo-nazi site.
So, my research concludes that this 'outrage' is being manufactured.
I mean, we're told day in, day out, you need to have thick skins to be a 'gamer' but telling someone they 'can mod something out or play something else' causes great offense ? ooooooooo k.

[JunMei]

What they don't get is that in their own way, they are absolutely SJWs. They just disagree on what they consider social justice.

[mkis007]

What would happen if one day everything you did on the internet was no longer anonymous? My god these people would have no outlet.

[plmkoh]

Hard to say, people still say dumb things on Facebook with their ugly mugs and names in full view.

[ZXCPCA500]

True but they would quickly learn there are real world implications for their behaviours online.

[mkis007]

Like even a dislike or a like....do you think all of us would click those buttons nearly as much if our usernames were attached? Kind of a interesting thought.

[Helios86]

Ah yes, let's advocate for a digital fascist state. Fucking brilliant, and what repercussions would you want for people voicing their opinions online? A fine? Jail time? Death sentence?

There are some states like that in the world today, you're free to join them, just leave the rest of us alone.

[ginganinja]

They aren't advocating any sort of repercussions beyond personal accountability. As in, would people still feel comfortable writing the same comments if they knew friends, families and employers could read them.

[Chaos_Order]

@ginganinja

I wouldn't want my friends, family and employers to see every comment I've written or every website I've visited because I consider many of them to be prejudiced or have poor judgement and knowledge of certain things. Even so much as watching a certain cartoon or liking a certain musician might net me abuse from others. And then there are people who wish to hide their sexual preferences or deepest thoughts for very obvious reasons. I for one think the benefits outweigh the costs.

[Garrett_the_GOD]

These people are such morons.out here wanting the government to have even more control than they already do...when we end up living like the Chinese they are gonna wish they werent so fucking stupid back when they actually had a voice

[ginganinja]

@Chaos_order
I wasn't saying you should. I was just making the point that the original comment made (simply that if all comments were tied to real names, people would comment differently) wasn't suggesting anything like what Helios86 was taking from it.

[TekoIie]

Don't even entertain the thought dude. If you can't defeat the argument then going after the person is just a desperate attempt to save face. Anonymity should remain because you have to deal with whats being said and can't deflect to character attacks.

[1nsomniac]

Haha what is wrong with people. Kids these days are growing up to be sad losers who sit watching YouTube videos all day, streaming themselves crying because they’re losing at something, aggressive against all women. Like some sad little women beaters because they have tiny peckers & it’s the only way they can feel macho. Sad. How did this happen?

[D3athc3ll]

I bet you have a tiny pecker.

I don't mind playing games with a woman as the lead role or hero. It is just stupid forcing them in every situation like Battlefield V WW2 and now this game. There were no female generals, so why add them just for the sake of SJW's. Damn Horizon Zero Dawn is one of my fav games and it has a female lead.

I feel macho going to actual LAN's and facing the dudes that is like big talk over the internet. Had a couple of instances but boy oh boy are they different people in real life. So scared and adorable. Shame, to think if we operated like animals I would have had many woman by just beating up other men. Damn I'd be a fucking Lion.

Sadly all is about money and I was born in South Africa where I literally have to face wild lions in order to survive :P

[1nsomniac]

What are you talking about. Again my point proven. It’s a game. Stop crying because there’s a women general. Get a grip man!

Your talking as if your a grown man but acting like a child. You go have fun with your lions ;-)

Even better get a girlfriend or a wife & grow up.

[D3athc3ll]

@1nsomniac
lol game or not, it should not be like this. Like I said, I don't mind female characters, but why let them be in a historical game? It's not like this game is a zombie game or future or something. It is a historical game.

Saying it is just a game and calling me acting like a child makes me wonder how old you are. Accepting this will probably justify WW2 movies where woman fought and men stayed at home.... It is inaccurate for a historical game. That is my point. Not because I hate woman. Damn I love woman, the are by far the most beautiful creation (right after a chihuahua puppy).

Anyways useless conversation wasting my time typing to someone that accepts this behavior in historical games. Whatever man enjoy games the way you want. Just don't come here talking trash about actual men not liking the way games are catering for SJW's or whatever. Oh and I am not crying, just not buying or supporting games like this. There are more than enough AAA games on my ps4/pc.

[nyu1]

@1nsomniac

It's a game so it's immune to criticism about it's representation of the past (or any other aspect of the game) ?

Just look at what you're saying. It makes no sense. First making some strawman arguments against I don't know who, then saying "oh it's just a game". You know what it reminds me of ? When people criticize portrayal of female characters in games (lots of legitimate criticisms), and people respond with "oh it's just a game it's all fun". It's a bullshit response that doesn't actually address anything.

Sure it's just a game. People can be quite passionate about games, don't you know that ? Sure, lot of people will overreact on the internet, that's just how it is, but is it not reasonable to be upset when devs change things like this for basically no reason ? What's the justification ? Why change this in a game like Total War ?

Why does it surprise you that people are upset ? The fact that they are complaining must mean that they have no life outside the game ? Is that what you're saying ? Hope not because it sounds dumb.

Is Steam reviewbombing a little harsh ? Sure. but that's not limited to this. If you have a problem with that, it's a separate issue.

[1nsomniac]

I give up. If your angry at a game because it has a women in it. Then nothing else needs to be said. The stupidity ends with you.

[D3athc3ll]

@1nsomniac

Well, if you think that is the reason for being mad, you clearly did not read or understand anything I've typed...

[Garrett_the_GOD]

Lmaoooo...what a reach..how do you jump to the conclusions that wanting historical accuracy in games that are based on actual wars automatically makes one a woman beater?and why are you in here thinking about dick sizes?where exactly did dicks come into this argument?y'all liberals are mentally ill..yall rarely use logic and instead jump straight to some emotional shit...lmaooooo

[Sono421]

You are so stuck in your train of thought that it's sickening. You need to demonize this group of people so bad you're blinded. This guy literally just told you he's fine with women in games and goes onto so say Horizon Zero Dawn is one of his favorite games ever and has a female lead, and how do you end your argument with him?

"I give up. If your angry at a game because it has a women in it. Then nothing else needs to be said. The stupidity ends with you."

You are truly a sad man. You call him stupid but yet fail to even read his well written comments, the irony is lost on you. It's even more sickening that you try to take the moral high ground by villainizing him. Could you sink any lower to remain in your close minded state?

[1nsomniac]

Yes I am being intentionally argumentative but I’m sick to death of this pathetic SJW argument. Why are we all so obsessed with only being able to connect to buff men. It wreaks of homosexuality.

It’s a GAME. Why do you all care so much, it’s pathetic! Have we reached a point that our lives are all so pathetically dull that we should get angry every time we see or hear a female take a lead role in a game or film. Why is every single game now have to be historically accurate despite the developers openly telling you it’s not in the first place!

[TheColbertinator]

Rather pathetic but I guess they don't have anything productive going on.

[elazz]

It is a silly argument but it you paid for a historical accurate game then no agenda has to be pushed to revise this part of history. Or give people the option to get a refund because it's not the game they bought due to the updates or a way to use an older version.

Many total war games are intended to relive the history that happened with the narrative progressing based on how you play. Not to play a changed history. My female generals are amazing in warhammer 2 total war but I don't expect to see that necessarily during the Roman empire. Although I don't really mind, the ratio should be as during the Roman empire age.

People shouldn't forget history or see another one than that actually happened but learn from it and grow beyond the people we used to be. We always want our kids to be better and many generations later it's completely different but learning from the real past is an important factor in all this.

[Leeroyw]

That was a very intelligent comment.

Edit: almost every optional character I play in games from Destiny to COD to Dark Souls is female. When I play a historical battle I want to be the man who played that role. I won't buy it. Not cause I'm a mysoginist. But because the developer told me not to if I wasn't happy.

[Mr_Writer85]

"but it you paid for a historical accurate game"

But they haven't, for it to be such a way the results of each battle would have to be fixed. And how would that be fun?

You buy a video game for fun, if you want historical accuracy may I suggest reading a history book?

[nyu1]

@Mr_Writer85

Please stop with this logic, it's bullshit.

"But they haven't, for it to be such a way the results of each battle would have to be fixed. And how would that be fun? "

Exactly. How would it be fun ? How would you even have this game ? That's a pretty good justification for compromising on realism and allowing you to change the outcomes of battles yes ?

Now care to give me the reasoning for the change we're talking about here ? What's the justification for compromising on the realism/accuracy in this case ? Just... why ? I don't get why they would do that. What does it add ?

Or are you saying that if you compromise on accuracy in one area, that justifies any other compromise in any other area ? It makes no sense. Obviously there's a balance. In a game like this you want as much accuracy as you can, while still delivering the gameplay loop that you want.

"You buy a video game for fun, if you want historical accuracy may I suggest reading a history book?"

Again, bullshit logic, and you'll see lots of people use this in so many arguments (most of the time in arguments that have nothing to do with these controversy). It's frustrating to see.

You buy a video game for entertainment. That can include pure fun (instant gratification), and a lot of other things, like intrigue, suspense, awe, thrill, horror. Are you saying that there's no value in having a historically accurate game ? Are you saying that historical accuracy doesn't play a big part in games like Total War ? or maybe Age of Empires ? What about realism - Whats the point of the ARMA military sim series ? Aren't games meant to be fun ? Shouldn't ARMA just turn into an arcade shooter then ?
Games are entertainment, just like movies, non educational books etc. Many of them are about much more than just 'fun', and you can clearly see that if you look at games in general. Realism and immersion play a huge part in so many games today.

Ofcourse people will be upset if you compromise on an important part of your game and don't have a good reason for it. It's basically criticism. And yes, ofcourse people are extra pissed because this is part of that whole political correctness controversy on the internet. Sure, some of it is overreacting, but that doesn't make your response any better.

[Mr_Writer85]

@nyu1

But the developer has never once claimed these games are historically accurate.

They offer a level of historical authenticity, but no where claim its historically accurate.

To claim adding a woman avatar to the game spoils the game is BS.

The developer has already said you can take them out with mods.

Also the patch that did this? Launched in March.

Why is it only an issue now?

[elazz]

@ Mr writer: They said they had to be faithful to the history and built everything around the context of the game. The context for this game is clear. There are many dev diaries where they explain this. So there you have it. See one of the many blog videos they made here:

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[nyu1]

"they never claimed it's historically accurate"

Sure, but they don't have to. It's Total War. Just by the type of game it is, historical accuracy is a big deal. People want to recreate battles based on historic civilizations and so on. Historical accuracy is a big deal. Obviously it's a balance, but it's a big deal. Is it surprising that some fans will be annoyed at this ? Many won't care obviously, but you're just not hearing them.

"To claim adding a woman avatar to the game spoils the game is BS."

I would agree. It shouldn't completely ruin the game for most people. However
- there are probably some really hardcore people out there who want as much accuracy as they can get.
- I think we both know it's more a thing of principle and a bigger internet controversy. Don't add things or change things just for the sake of inclusivity or diversity or whatever. Political correctness, "SJW" and whatnot. I'm not familiar with the specifics of this case, but I can absolutely agree with the principle that devs shouldn't be pandering (not saying they are in this case).

"The developer already said you can take them out with mods"

Which is great.

"Also the patch that did this? Launched in March.

Why is it only an issue now?"

because this article was written now. Steam review bombing is definitely an issue, and the game may suffer disproportionately for a small issue like this.

[GameGod26]

Stop the forced progressive nonsense people don’t want it in their games

[mkis007]

They are making the game, so they don't get to choose what goes into it? Sounds like you would rather have your own nonsense in the games you play... maybe develop your own game?

You should try to adapt or turn the "Care" button to off. Works wonders when you can enjoy the things you like but ignore the things you don't.

Mods are a thing.

[ISHU]

Well it's fine if they make the game "they want to make". But they shouldn't be surprised if it makes the audience upset and receives negative reception. Not everyone is going to fall for the developer's SJW tactics and stay quiet about it.

[mkis007]

I just don't get the mindset I guess.

[Garrett_the_GOD]

"Sounds like you would rather have your own nonsense in the games you play"...so asking for historical accuracy in a game based on actual hustorical events is nonsense now??do y'all SJWs ever think before to type this dumb shit?lmaooo

[Garrett_the_GOD]

If you dont get the mindset then you obviously arent a logical thinker...youre acting like we are wrong for wanting historical accuracy in games that are based on actual historical events...let them do the same with movies,tv shows and miniseries and they would face the same backlash so why exactly should games be exempt?

[mkis007]

The mindset being "I wont use mods because wah I want it my way not the way the devs made it."

SJW has been overused to mean anyone who doesnt agree with you. I'm not fighting for anything, I'm just laughing at how much it bugs you people. This has diverged into an attack on me so I will bow out and let you guys deal with your feelings alone.

[nyu1]

"They are making the game, so they don't get to choose what goes into it? Sounds like you would rather have your own nonsense in the games you play... maybe develop your own game?"

You know you can say this about literally any criticism about any game right ? Ofcourse they can put what they want into their game. That doesn't change the fact that people will criticize it over a bunch of things and fans will get annoyed when you do something that they don't like for the game. I don't get your point.

[Dixiedevil]

A huge portion of people that play those games are into the historical accuracy of the settings. They want to escape to that time period but are pulled out of the immersion back to 2018 with yet another rewrite of history. Add onto that the dev telling their customers “If you don’t like it, don’t play it”, I can see why they’re pissed.

[Mr_Writer85]

But the games are not 100% historically accurate.

If so then which ever game you choose to play would be pre determind would it not?