German consumer association warns Sony over "customer-hostile" PSN terms and conditions

Sony could face legal action in Germany after the Consumer Association of North Rhine-Westphalia (Verbraucherzentrale NRW) filed a complaint regarding the terms and conditions of PlayStation Network.

[AizenSosuke]

Oof Sony, you got change this , improve on this, and become better quickly.

[Eonjay]

Change first andd last. The second issue is about parenting. I would not mind a prorated return policy though.

[AizenSosuke]

Agreed

[2pacalypsenow]

"Additionally, the Verbraucherzentrale NRW has complained about the clause which finds parents accountable for any costs incurred by their underage children spending money on in-game purchases."

How is this Sony's problem? So Sony should be responsible for bad parenting?

The rest I agree with.

[rdgneoz3]

Blame the parents for letting the kids purchase stuff without removing the card or putting parental locks in place. Teach the little ones to be responsible and you won't get random charges. Else, anyone can claim their "little one" bought games after finishing them over the weekend and want their money back.

[Smitty2020]

Maybe adding a 4 pin verification before any ingame purchase can be completed so children can’t just buy anything and they wouldn’t need too add cards and delete cards all the time

[1nsomniac]

You need to put your account password in for every purchase made on PSN. So I would usually agree with this sort of thing but in that case you can’t really argue if you’ve given your kids the password to your psn credit account you’ve got no one else to blame if they buy stuff with it.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

You don't have to put your password in for every purchase, unless you mean just in Germany. I wouldn't know.

[1nsomniac]

In UK you have to enter it for every purchase. I assumed it would be the same for every region. I can’t imagine that would not be the same in other regions given the security concerns & data breach Sony went through...

[Mr_Writer85]

I live in the UK and I don't have to put in my password.

[Rhythmattic]

Yeh, Same in Oz... No password needed....
Though Logging into a different user thats not the main account requires a password

[Zeke68]

I'm not sure it's on default. But you can choose "use password at every checkout" somewhere in the settings on your PS4. :)

[KwietStorm_BLM]

I'm in the U.S. You have the option to use password for each purchase or not.

[1nsomniac]

I have to enter it every time. Funny, I don’t ever remember having to manually select that. I thought it was part of the update after the security breach. Now you’ve said it I think I remember seeing the option to enable/disable it.

[Army_of_Darkness]

No...1nsomniac is right... there is an option to put in your password before every confirmed purchase. It's the smart thing to do, just saying.

[bigmalky]

No you don't. I'm in the UK. I just go to the store, confirm purchase, and the game is bought.

Have you got some extra security features on your account, or are you using Paypal and not a card? Paypal requires a password, a credit/bank card does not.

[Dirtnapstor]

OMGosh, people are inept and illiterate when it comes to digital mediums. You can lock up the PS4 so one does not have to worry when children govern themselves...if that is what it has come down to.

[ChristopherJack]

You're absolutely right, this is a well-known fact- shouldn't a large technology company be more prepared for this to prevent the inevitable complaints from people who simply don't understand technology?

[RedDevils]

They blame a company because because of their bad parenting lol

[TheColbertinator]

Sony once again peddling unfair and hostile customer policies.

[Dragonscale]

But of course microsoft never do. Gtfo.

[TheUndertaker85]

And yet this topic isn’t about Microsoft and awkwardly Microsoft isn’t mentioned a single time in the story. Likely because Sony received a C&D order, the entire topic along with why they are. Stfowts seems more appropriate here.

[Dragonscale]

@theundertaker its what he's implying thats annoying as if its all they do and Its also a sly dig at the crossplay debacle. He is also an xbox fan and his comment is loaded tbh. Ok off topic somewhat but all of them are guilty of anti-consumer practices not just Sony so my comment is valid. He is just using it as an excuse to troll Sony. And anyhow what does that acronym even mean fgs lol.

[TheUndertaker85]

@Dragonscale:
“its what he's implying thats annoying” Is it what’s implied or things you’re pushing as implied? What he stated was a simple sentence and view associated with the topic here. Sony isn’t exactly being consumer friendly with the three mentioned infractions. Like clearing PSN wallets after a period of time? That’s literally taking money from the consumer that wasn’t spent on a product. Thus taking something for nothing. What’s next? If I attach a credit card or debit card to my PSN account are they going to start charging me for not spending it on PSN? It’s a bollocks policy and TOS condition.

“He is also an xbox fan and his comment is loaded tbh.” Why is it you’re now attempting to remove credibility to their statement under the ruse they’re a fan of another platform? I happen to play games. Most here should be doing the same. Otherwise you aren’t really a gamer. God forbid someone likes games on other platforms. I’m sure somewhere again I’m going to get called a Xbox fan with it being implied I’m a fanboy simply because of my avatar yet maybe it has to do with the fact that Sony & Nintendo don’t really offer the same sort of product short of static avatars. Yet the message mine is supposed to deliver is I am both a fan of gaming and the Denver Broncos. I also happen to like unorthodox camos thus the urban camo backdrop.

“Ok off topic somewhat but all of them are guilty of anti-consumer practices not just Sony so my comment is valid.” No, that’s admitting your comment and further comments are off topic to the subject while attempting to validate the same comments. Again, there are other companies in the story but Microsoft & Nintendo aren’t them. Further this story is solely about Sony receiving a C&D in an effort to remedy the situation along with the fact that their acts are considered unlawful under German law. Sony can choose to heed the C&D warning before things escalate.

“And anyhow what does that acronym even mean fgs” Stfowts equals stay the fuck out with that shit. You’re literally attempting to justify why it may be ok for Sony to break laws and be anti-consumer by using Microsoft as a shield for Sony. Instead of addressing the topic at hand which falls solely on Sony you’re attempting to say, “But look this way instead and ignore what’s going on over there. Over here is where the real trouble is!” while Microsoft in this instance isn’t listed as doing anything wrong past your personal views. Literally infused into the comments because YOU chose to drag them into it without them being a part.

[rdgneoz3]

Wanting parents to take responsibility for their kids buying random sh!t (when they don't put on parental settings or remove credit cards from the account) is a hostile policy?

[TekoIie]

Not having a refund policy is definitely hostile. Imo the standard should be a no questions asked refund if the product has not been played for more than 4 hours. Only other exception would be if a game launched in a state comparable to No Mans Sky where it's not actually working.

[2pacalypsenow]

Did you even read the article?

None of it is really "unfair" or "hostile".

Unless you're in the group of people that don't wanna take blame for anything.

[crazyCoconuts]

Dude, sybamumf, 'cause us consumers are like sheep and we need to be protected by the big and benevolent governments of the world. Gaming needs to be regulated like water and electricity, because Fortnite has shown us that we can't survive without it. And we don't have freedom of choice since Spiderman went exclusive, so it's not like we could just get upset with Sony and stop doing business with them. Whatever will we do to stop the evil Sony from taking advantage of our poor and ignorant selves?

[generic-user-name]

As long as they also keep peddling AAA exclusives it's no big deal.

[Cobra951]

I'm glad somebody has deep enough pockets to champion consumer causes. The government doesn't bother with it anymore.

[CarlDechance]

Agree with the first issue, but not the second. Parents should be responsible. What is to stop a parent from buying a whole bunch of stuff and then blame it on their kids?

I’m not sure I understand the third issue.

[TekoIie]

Basically their lack of a refund policy on digital purchases.

[CarlDechance]

Ah.....ok. Thanks. Yeah, something like what Steam does would be cool.

[Mr_cheese]

Can support a company but should never be blind to xbad practice.

I agree with 2pacaly that 2 out of the 3 are relevant issues but the parent one is just.

Consumers should always push on where they believe they are being unfairly treated (within reason that is)

[kevnb]

Yes sony are quite anti-consumer in many ways even though they make amazing games.

[Garrett_the_GOD]

No more so than Microsoft or Nintendo..we have Nintendo selling us 5 year old WiiU games for $60 a pop...then Microsoft requires you to pay for a subscription of Xbox Live to be able to play free 2 play games and have unfortunately this gen havent released near as many AAA exclusives as the competition..I am glad to see Microsoft has been busy buying established studios as well as starting some new studios..I expect Microsoft to come much stronger next gen than this gen

[galmi]

I thought one needed psn plus to play games online too...hmm

[chase1ne]

@galmi

Not for F2P games like Fortnite. Those don't require a PS+ subscription to play online. So the game is actually free to play. Unlike on Xbox where it's Free to Play*

*Requires a paid subscription to Xbox Live to play.

[Smokehouse]

“Consumer hostile” lmao. Nobody does nanny state quite like Germany.

[GrimReaperGamer]

Germany crying over PSN terms and conditions but have no problem with illegal immigrants crossing their boarders raping, beating & killing it's citizens. Good ol' Germany, haha morons.

[Geomasonic]

true.

[King_Noctis]

Both issues are separate and are handled by separate entities.

Also this is done to protect the interest of gamer. If you are actually one, you would be happy to hear this.

[AnubisG]

Was just about to say that. Priorities.....Germany don't have them in the right order.

[Ceaser9857361]

Yaaa. Something negative about Sony.. Some section Is very much happy after they were disappointed with Spiderman doing so well and selling great..

[bluefox755]

First one is dumb, and Sony should probably fix it (even if it's probably incredibly rare that anyone runs into the problem). Second thing is nonsense, it's not Sony's job to parent your kids. Don't really understand the third issue.

[Smokehouse]

The third issue is just wrong, at least on the American psn. It explicitly says “no refunds” on digital items. I learned that the hard way, cancelling a preorder is a pain in the ass but it’s possible.

The prepaid gift cards expiring is dumb but to act like it’s some evil crime against consumers that needs immediate government action is even more stupid. Who gets a prepaid card and sits on it for 2 years? There is nothing anti-consumer about any of this, it’s just Germany attacking video games and treating their citizens like idiots who don’t know how to spend their money or parent their kids. Don’t they have more pressing matters to worry about?

[Smokehouse]

@gumby
How is that my logic when it’s your rhetorical example? Lol... That’s your logic you are projecting on me. I said nothing about games being taken away, your example isn’t relevant.

If you take that gift card and put the number in your account then the money in your wallet won’t expire. If you buy that gift card and sit on it for 2 years without putting the code in then it will expire. It is what it is. I’d imagine most codes have an expiration date, the ones on my blurays do. Do I favor this practice? No. I also don’t think it’s worthy of “consumer hostile” discussions. I think it’s petty BS for people with nothing better to do.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

I wish they gave you a grace period like Steam does on digital items, then again, I rarely buy digital on PS4.

[Jinger]

"First and foremost is the "customer-hostile" policy regarding prepaid credit on the platform, which expires after 24 months if left unspent.

Additionally, the Verbraucherzentrale NRW has complained about the clause which finds parents accountable for any costs incurred by their underage children spending money on in-game purchases.

Finally, criticism has been levelled against Sony's policy governing a consumer's right of withdrawal. The Verbraucherzentrale NRW found that there is no indication that customers must explicitly agree to forgo this right when completing digital purchases."

[ChristopherJack]

Wow, downvoted for simplifying an article. Damn this community sucks. Love the format, the people are such fanboys. Can't people be fans without boys? I've owned every PlayStation, last fortnight traded my PS4 in for the PS4 Pro, bought and completed Spiderman this weekend, my phone is a Sony Xperia XZ Premium, I bought a Sony headset for work- I love Sony products, I especially love their exclusive games-

but I'm not blind, I won't attack someone who disagrees with Sony's anti-consumer stances, I am a consumer! I'm also a gamer first, the amount of hate from this site on crossplay is astonishing, it's as if people don't want to play with their mates who own separate consoles, maybe they simply have so few mates that they don't have any that own an XOne or Switch. Blind to the long-term benefits such as a larger combined user base, keeping servers alive on games that would have normally died.

[galmi]

Part of the issue of this community is, instead of attacking issues as they are as soon as someone says "sony this" the counter is "but MS and Nintendo" and vice versa, its quite sad really

[AmUnRa]

O bad Sony😡 So its Sonys fault that parents give that info to the children so that they can buy things in the PS store and buy stuff online!!
A friend of me has a son 11 years old. His son could also buy stuff online. my friend had no idea that his son was doing this. After the bill he saw that his son bought for €500 players and other stuff in Fifa and a few other games
Now his son has no change to buy anything online.

Sony fault or my friends own fault?? I say its clearly my friends fault.

[ninsigma]

Eh, why shouldn't parents be responsible for their kids actions??
I like the idea of dropping the expiry of pre paid credits. Sony got paid for those credits, they shouldn't be allowed to take them away.

[raWfodog]

Yeah the first point is the only one I agree with. The other two are personal responsibility items.

[rob-GP]

“parents accountable for any costs incurred by their underage children spending money on in-game purchases.”

Erm, Sony won’t and shouldn’t change that rule. All it will lead to is people making secondary accounts, buying things, then blaming it on their imaginary kids.

[Malice-Flare]

hmm, what do they mean by "pre-paid credit that expires after 24-months?" does that mean the amount in the wallet left-over becomes zero after 24 months being dormant? yes, that should be changed...

the second complaint is unreasonable, but mitigated if the parents turn on passwords when purchasing stuff. Sony should just have that on by default...

the last, if i understand correctly is for "refunds?" yeah, they need that...

[tdogg06051991]

If you ever run into this specific issue and the company doesn't help you just go to your financial institution. Apple ran into this issue a while back and was held liable.

[neomahi]

Um..... Good luck?

[ChickenMan34]

i swear this site posts the most irrelevant stories ive ever seen !! how the hell is this news smh this site gets worse every day

[raWfodog]

N4G refers to news for gamers. How is this news not relevant to gamers when it refers to terms and conditions regarding a gaming network?

[jjb1981]

I took the 20 minutes to set up an account for my son and make sure I had purchases disabled. This isn't the plug-n-play era of Nintendo. What's far worse than the credit card transactions are the interactions that they might have with toxic players. Parents need to be responsible in controlling this.