BFV Dev: I Knew Adding Female Soldiers Was Going To Be A Fight; There Are Other Authentic WW2 Games

Battlefield V developer Alan Kertz (Design Director at DICE) said that he knew adding female soldiers was going to be a fight, but it's the right time to do so. He then pointed out that other World War 2 themed games are available for those seeking maximum authenticity.

[Imp0ssibl3]

Who can be so stupid to make up such a fuss because they are adding playable females in multiplayer?!?

[techsquisite]

Probably the same type of person who'd be of the mindset to not allow women to vote 100 years ago. Just a theory.

[HaveSumNuts]

Probably the mindset of someone who has a thing against boob physics in games.

[Skull521]

We’re upset because Battlefield is starting to become, well, not Battlefield. A beloved series is falling to the culture wars.

EA is going to have to explain to shareholders how they made a Battlefront blunder followed by a Battlefield blunder.

[General Shrooms]

Nice straw-man techsquisite. Why bother confronting the detractors grievances when you can just call them a bigot?

[The 10th Rider]

It was actually largely groups of women that most vehemently opposed women's suffrage. So if it's your theory that it's the same group that doesn't want women in Battlefield V, you're saying that it's largely women that don't want women in BFV.

[zypher]

@Skull521

I got into Battlefield because I like the mechanics. I like that if there's a sniper camped in a building, I can use an RPG to take him and half the structure down. I like that instead of calling in an airstrike via killstreak, I can just spawn in a jet and do the bombing myself. So long as the series maintains these mechanics, and doesn't start propagating extreme right wing ideologies, then I don't give a shit where it stands in the culture wars.

[UltraNova]

https://goo.gl/images/Ni3tU...

Take a close look, what do you see?

Triggered!

[mep69]

So the same sort of people who thought that Poor men who didn't own land didn't deserve the vote either.

[Dirtnapstor]

@Zypher
“...and doesn’t start propagating extreme right wing ideologies”
Sorry but cultural diversity and inclusion is a Lefty movement, not Right-winged.
Aside from that, I agree, I could care less as long as the mechanics are through and through BF.
Angry Joe has some great commentary on the game that was not public. Quashes much of the concerns. DICE is probably waiting for E3 to fully reveal.

[subtenko]

ahhh no youre the type of person everyone is worried about stiring stuff up and trying to use it for some bs agenda. NOPE get outta here with that. You act like females in videos games arent common, ratios are everything. More male characters might be in games the way that more males ask females on a date and not the other way around

[Skull521]

@zypher

You’d better cancel your preorder because this game is going to let you play as Nazis.

[zypher]

@Skull521

Yes, you can use Nazis as an avatar, as a function of needing opposing sides, which is pretty vital to the gameplay of a game set during WWII (be it an alternative setting or otherwise). Doesn't mean the game is propagating nazism.

[-Foxtrot]

They aren't though, it's like one part of a dozen complaints people have, sure there's going to be a few people but it's not what everyone in the gaming community is focusing on, cherry picking Youtube comments so they can twist the narrative for their article can easilly be done. I mean this article explains it the best.

http://n4g.com/news/2173386...

They are making it about this one thing so the entire thing seems "stupid" or "immature" and sweeps the other complaints under the rug.

[parris]

The whole thing is silly and immature.

It's just a video game.

[-Foxtrot]

@parris

So people saying they have an issue with it because

It looks like an alternative universe where WW2 happened with a steampunk twist.

Overuse of War paint

Bright and colourful

A much over the top lively atmosphere

Shirtless guys and clothing which dosen't look like that time frame or what they'd wear

Some hair and facial hair styles looking out of plac

Someone with a prosthetic hand using it so easily while being on the front lines

All of those issues people have raised is "immature and silly"...no it's called having an opinion, a valid one. If the trailer was for the single player then these points hit harder, if the reveal was for the multiplayer then all these "cosmetic items" are being used a lot to justify the MTs they'll be putting in the game and while we sit here and argue they'll be laughing all away to the bank because we're all too distracted to focus on their greed like we all did together as a community for Battlefront II. So either way...it's valid criticism.

I mean there's a War Story in the game about a young female resistance fighter in Norway fighting off the enemy...she's not on the front lines or military she's on her own as part of the resistance which to me is more believable then a woman at the heart of the front lines with a prosthetic hand fighting off enemies like it's a walk in the park. Gender isn't the issue, the story which revolves around them is and if it dosen't fit then it makes you question it.

[morganfell]

-Foxtrot,

I agree with you. The thing is Dice did this because they are risk averse. It's like a movie or series where they hire the wrong actor for the role but they want name draw. Or they opt to remake something from the past because they feel its safe. Anyone seen that horrible and laughable trailer for the new Magnum PI?

If Dice had been a little smarter and willing to take just a little risk they could have gone with a new IP. But they wanted to ride the Battlefield name. The laughable thing is they could have done so and called it Battlefield Altered Wars or something similar and made a point of the fact it was an alternate history. In doing so all of this flak could have been avoided. Now they are getting an ear full and having to devote time to defending their product because they were too stupid to do something that respected history, allows creative freedom, and provides them the ability to cater to their new target audience

[Rachel_Alucard]

@Parris

When someone says it's just a video game, anything you say is invalid since you don't care enough to discuss it since it is that irrelevant to you. I don't think I need to argue against anyone in favor of mindless consumerism.

[parris]

Rachel it is just a video game.

More games are released than a person could play even if that's all they spent their time doing.

People are up in arms about this like it's peace talks between two warring nations. It's not a big deal, I have more respect for my kid when I tell him to mow the lawn and he doesn't want to. At least in that case he is actually being forced to do something. No one and I mean NO ONE has to buy or even play BFV.

If you take a step back and realize the actual problems in the world, and probably in most peoples personal lives you'll quickly realize the entire idea of getting outraged over something as trivial as BFV is in fact silly and immature.

[Rachel_Alucard]

@parris

Excuse me, but don't come on to a video game newsite and wave the flag of "It doesnt matter guys!"

If it is that meaningless to you, then you have no reason to discuss or debate with anyone here. If you want to talk about other world problems then go to places that deal with it, instead of coming here and trying to shut others down since the field is so meaningless to you.

[UnholyLight]

Well said on all accounts Foxtrot

[UnholyLight]

I just want BF to still be a somewhat realistic game other than those silly moments that happen in the game...and not go down the CoD WWII route.

We don't get console WWII shooters anymore and I was really looking forward to a world where graphics and gameplay are finally getting insane and a real authentic and immersive experience that builds off what DICE has built up and how fun Battlefield 1942/3 was...could be that much better...

Instead we might be getting a game that's just about being silly instead of serious online. I was just discussing this with a friend over the weekend. We just want to play a WWII authentic and period correct game that has the Battlefield gameplay on it, with amazing graphics, and lots of players, with correct clothing (Germans wearing SS, Wehrmacht, Fallschirmjager, Americans wearing the 101st patches...you know...proper representation.

For the record Im totally fine with women being in the game assuming their inclusion represents the countries that actually fielded them (Russian female snipers...other allies like Great Britain who assembled special forces with women..Resistance members) not anything silly like frontline british women soldiers or something totally insane like FEMALE GERMAN NAZI SOLDIERS or African American Nazi soldiers...you know things that didn't happen in history at all period.

It just does a disservice to WWII to not represent it correctly in my opinion. That's where I think the majority of the community's heads are at...not this anti women straight up type crap that has popped up.

[jmc8888]

@Foxtrot, while I don't like out of place things, I am realistic.

If the price of free map packs and no season pass = cosmetics, some/most of which is out of place, so be it.

Also people really have to realize that $60 in 2018 is like $30 back in 2005.

In 2000-2001, one ounce of gold sold gave you the money to buy ~4-5 $50 AAA games. In 2018, based on the spot price right now, it would buy you between 21 and 22 $60 AAA games.

Regardless of how much money seems to us, in reality, all our money is worth nothing anymore. These companies for right or mostly wrong have a job to return value to their shareholders, not lose money via inflation.

I don't solely blame Wall Street corporations for this. I like to do that too, but 90 percent of it is on people like Barrack Obama, George W. Bush, and Bill Clinton, and likewise across the world.

This along with the Wall Street model itself are why there are loot boxes, season passes, and cosmetics in everything these days. The average person can't afford $150 a game, but these companies can sell the game for $60 and the whales via these other expenditures can get the average price up to who knows, 90-100-110? I really wonder where Overwatch is at.

This is the forgotten element, currency debasement, which often makes ALL talk about greedy videogame corporations worthless. If you don't take this into account, it's just pissing into the wind.

[BadElf]

Again, for me personally, its not because its just simply women in videogames. Its the REASON behind the foolishness. Why is it "the right time to do so"?? EA has had the vocal MINORITY complaining....yes, the SJWs, the Annita Skarkasians. Women were in videogames in the past. In movies and all forms of entertainment. BUT, it wasnt because of an AGENDA. That's the annoyance.

[drpepperdude]

We have had women in gaming since the beginning yet with this one game we disagree with they act like we are anti-women. Some of my favorite games growing up have had female leads. They also use the you must be a virgin cliche to try and argue their side when really they have no real arguments against us. How they relate virginity to being anti-women I will never understand when the real world anti-women people usually became that way because of bad relationships.

[RauLeCreuset]

Omnislash exposes the ridiculousness of this "agenda" scapegoating. All art can be accused of pushing an agenda. Perhaps the game has been pushing a military agenda. See what I mean? The Harlem Renaissance was pushing an agenda. It's easier to come out against a nebulous "agenda" than to admit having a problem with inclusion (or as some people will tell themselves, too much inclusion).

[BadElf]

RauLeCreuset , admit having a problem with inclusion? Did you even read my comment?

[BadElf]

@OmnislashVer36 And you are just showing the classic copy and pasted comment by everyone that has no clue what to say.

[RauLeCreuset]

Yeah, I read your comment. You don't have a problem with the inclusion of women, just the agenda of including women, right? Did you read my comment? It's an insignificant distinction. Just about everything you consume has an agenda.

[Mr Lahey]

Oh horrible agenda of female influence! Leave video games alone!!1!

[morganfell]

Remember, Dice is the one that said they're going back to World War II. Someone please let us know when they get there because where they're at right now, that's not World War II.

[Gaming_1st]

Yeah if it is just females soldiers in multiplayer that's perfectly fine. But i think they are also adding to campaign too. Which in WW2 we would not allow woman in combat. A lot of them just manned AA guns and that was the most they could do. But people are little more upset with the setting and other things to go along with it.

[Imalwaysright]

No the soviets had women in the frontlines as snipers and this woman https://cdn.theatlantic.com... Lyudmila Pavlichenko killed more than 300 germans which makes her one of the best snipers in history. The french resistance also had women in combat.

[morganfell]

"Lyudmila Pavlichenko killed more than 300 germans which makes her one of the best snipers in history."

When it comes to women in WWII this is the most over-used case...in the history of forever.

And aberration of history does not a norm make. That's why its an aberration. Yet people take this case and use it as a bludgeon to try and demonstrate that not only was there a Mongolian horde of women in combat, but also they were the most deadly soldiers in the history of warfare. Men ran from them. Hitler shot himself because he heard there was a woman in the assault unit. It wasn't Patton that Rommel avoided, it was a female reporter assigned to the general's staff.

I saw a movie about a woman during the World Wars who could fight just like some people claim and just like Dice wants us to believe. That movie was called Wonder Woman.

Yes Lyudmilla was a sniper. Sitting back shooting people at range. That really compares to the representation Dice is providing with BFV. Pavlichenko was not going on missions like Carlos Hathcock. There are snipers and then there are snipers. She was encamped within a thousand feet of her main unit. People also fail to understand that at a certain point the Soviets saw the propaganda value in her and began to use this.

I am not saying it wasn't terribly dangerous but it is a totally different animal to more active operations. Compare what she did to soldiers on all sides during WWII conducting building assaults and operations lugging around a ton of gear, going hand to hand with the enemy and...well...there just isn't a comparison. How would she have performed if she had been in the shoes of Witzig at Eben Emael? You don'tr hear about women conducting building assaults while armored vehicles knocked down walls nearby.

Dice is selling people a fantasy. I do not have an issue with this. Most games are fantasy and they're fun. But Dice have always pushed the idea that BF games represented a degree of realism and they should have made a distinction. And as many said the issue is also why they are doing this. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and not only do they get the grease, their screeching got to Dice.

[Imalwaysright]

Aberration? The soviets had more than 2000 female snipers. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about.

"Pavlichenko was not going on missions like Carlos Hathcock" What nonsense is this? Of course she was on missions some of them counter sniping missions that sometimes went on for days and she killed 36 enemy snipers which makes this line "there are snipers and then there are snipers" absolutely hilarious. Not only that but she was less than a year in combat, she has more than 300 recorded kills and was wounded 4 times until she was forced out of the frontline when she was wounded in her face with shrapnel. She is one of the most deadly snipers in history and here you are downplaying what she did almost wanting us to believe that snipers are immune to being killed, injured, captured or ending up in close quarters combat while elevating Carlos because unlike her, he was in constant danger as he was a https://www.youtube.com/wat...

"Dice is selling people a fantasy." Naaaah for real?! I would never had guessed that a game is a fantasy.

"Dice have always pushed the idea that BF games represented a degree of realism" Did they do that with this game before that trailer? If they did they're idiots because obviously realism wasn't their goal and I'm not talking about females soldiers. I'm talking about the whole goddamn trailer.

[JackBNimble]

I got news for some of you, Dice can do whatever the hell they want,after all they are the creators of this game. it's almost seems like some of you feel that you made this game and Dice took it away . They don't owe anyone Jack shit... This is their game and they can do as they please.

You have two choices, buy it or not.
There you go, now vote with your wallet.

[morganfell]

You are missing the point or else avoiding it entirely because it collapses your position. Let me state it again, "I am not saying it wasn't terribly dangerous but it is a totally different animal to more active operations. Compare what she did to soldiers on all sides during WWII conducting building assaults and operations lugging around a ton of gear, going hand to hand with the enemy and...well...there just isn't a comparison."

"The soviets had more than 2000 female snipers. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about. "

And yes it is an aberration. They had 2000 trained snipers that were combat deadly? No. You fail to comprehend Soviet era propaganda. Some of these 2000 snipers were sharing rifles barely able for the task. Naming someone a sniper for the sake of saying you have them does not make them a sniper. You also do not understand what the Soviets did with reality once she began to make a name for herself. And no, as I said. I do not think she was just some figurehead in everything and I said as much. No one is doubting that she went on tough missions. But you also are a victim of slewed history as regards some of the "snipers" she shot. No one is doubting that she took out legitimate enemy personnel that were trained in long range target interdiction. But reading something beside Wikipedia or my grandpa said will help.

You also apparently know nothing about Snipers such as Hathcock that were not operating in a situation where someone could return to friendly lines in a matter of minutes.

Where did I say snipers were immune? Do you always make things up when it suits you? I am saying shooting someone from a distance, often across no mans land is infinitely safer than storming building and fortifications full of enemy troops. Sniping can be a tedious and dangerous task but it also doesn't require the physical abilities demonstrated in the trailer. And that is the entire point of the matter. The trailer. But then again, we're in an age of women are as tough as men and if you don't believe me I'll sue you too. The physical requirements for sniping in the conditions in which she operated are wholly different from what Dice was displaying in the trailer. As for the realism, I am not the one that tossed the name of a historical figure onto the table. That would be you. You do not get to play the realism card when it suits you.

Had this been a trailer with a female Soviet sniper you would be well justified. But that isn't what we saw. Apples to oranges. Now go back to the drawing board and find female combat troops that were carrying weapons, rations, water, gear, a couple hundred rounds of ammo, grenades, first aid kit, and anything else deemed necessary while conducting close quarters battle and you'll have a point. Don't forget the prosthetic hand.

[morganfell]

@JackBNimble

You are exact and on the money. It is Dice's game. They can do what they want. Just as they did with Battlefront II. And consumers can respond. I will. I do not feel like Dice owes anyone anything. But Dice is the one asking consumers to give it a chance. And just like Dice can do as they wish so can consumers.

The very reason I and many others chose Battlefield was they did make attempts toward a degree of realism balanced with fun. They have removed all signs of that and they have done so for what is clearly a cancerous reason. I won't continue to debate women in combat. Not when their is the entire history of man to delineate reality as to what happens when they attempt to enter close quarters. As romantic as young men think women warriors are reality is different when things come down to spitting distance.

I think Dice is in for an "also ran" scenario this fall and not what they wanted to see. Between RDR2, COD, and their Loot history things will not go well. I had no plans to purchase COD as the lack of a campaign does not appeal to me and I have said as much. But I will do so now and give it away to someone as a personal stick in the eye to people like Dice that would abandon so many supporters of previous games, drop so many aspects of their franchise, and push personal politics in gaming.

[Imalwaysright]

morganfell

I'm not avoiding anything. She was wounded 4 times in less than a year and was removed from combat due to injury. I also said that she killed 36 snipers and that was just her. I clearly said these things so do don't give me that bullshit that snipers weren't in constant danger and that I'm avoiding anything.

Not every female was as deadly as her? Of course not and same can be said for the men. I only know 2 snipers in history that have more confirmed kills than her. Everyone else doesn't even come close. All I did was reply to someone that said that women weren't in the frontlines and somehow it triggered you because I gave the most famous example.

Yes I have to read information because I wasn't there to see her as she was dead before I was alive. Are you by chance a 100 year old that was to see her fight to say the things you're saying?

Propaganda? Oh and with Carlos there isn't the possibility of propaganda either or do you simply choose according to your bias?

Yes you tried to pass the idea she wasn't in constant danger as infantry soldiers were just because she was a sniper and that is why I said "almost immune".

[GameGod26]

Pretty stupid take to have on the matter

[bloop]

I couldn't care less about all the bull over having females or not in the game. It just looks like a Fortnite rip off and I think it's pretty lame they're using the BF franchise to try cash in on that market.

[shauzy]

historical accuracy?

[sampsonon]

i have a picture in my head and they are the same people that didn't want a black soldier on the last cover.

[Sunny_D]

They would be the Definition of a snowflake.

[rainslacker]

I agree. This dev is stupid to think this is a fight. He's free to do as he pleases. Others are free to question his choices, and the fact he thinks it's a fight that needs to be waged in his part just shows it was more agenda based to virtue signal than because he felt it was productive to the actual authenticity or fun factor of the game itself.

Oh...you were talking about the people that were complaining. Despite the fact everything said by the dev on this seems more about pandering than any real motivation to further representation in an unforced manner.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

The anti- SJWs that cry about everything done for the sake of inclusion and diversity. If the protagonist(s) aren’t pasty white dude bros they get triggered almost immediately.

[Crazyglues]

Ha...ha... he basically told you there are other WW2 games to play if you want authentic... LoL Because they know you will bitch and moan but you will still buy BF5.... LMAO...

I love it, he basically said your idle threats mean nothing because at the end of the day you will still buy the game even if you want to lie to yourself and say you won't... LoL :) They know you too well, and a good game is still a good game.... So just save your protest no one is listening.. LoL

Time to grow up kids, Woman are in games, it's not a bid deal

[franwex]

You got it. Just like all the hypocrites with the black nazi zombies in COD that people were crying about.
Yet they still bought it ...

[Parasyte]

I must have missed that one.

[Gaming_1st]

Haven't bought a COD since Blackops2. Also i have not purchased a game with bethesda's name on it since the Skyrim debacle on PS3.

Why do you think COD sales have been decreasing?

[bigmalky]

I won't. Love how people assume that we all just fall in line.

[Anzil]

I know, its their mentality to think because I, therefore you.

[SixFragz]

"They know you will bitch and moan but you will still buy BF5... LMAO..."

Yea... just like how we all still bought Battlefront II right? Gamers aren't as feeble minded as you think, as we have seen. If we stand against something, we will hit them where it hurts. Soon, we will be given another fake apology just like with SWBFII. I'm a huge BF fan, have bought every game since BFBC2, including Hardline. There are counts of other BF fans who will walk past this SJW ridden tripe since DICE...

A) decided to appease or cater to a toxic SJW demographic who doesn't play their games
B) include this goofy cartoonish, outlandish and unbelievable vision masqueraded as WWII just to enable MT's or
C) all of the above

They've abandoned their loyal fanbase, and they will deeply regret it.

Believe me Crazyglues, if this game continues down this forceful SJW path, then the game will be buried beneath the heavy hitting releases during that holiday season...

Especially by a little game called Red Dead Redemption 2. Heard of it?

[beebap]

What if they haven't abandoned their fan base? What if are giving options to part of it that is female and would enjoy this option in multilayer no matter what class and what type of battle. This is the reveal trailer and there are lots more to show. I think everything is a little bright the grass is very green but then we are used to seeing black and white videos from the war so having duller palette is somehow more authentic. As for the characters appearance they are customisation options with we will probably have to pay for anyway so I will not be paying. The trailer I think was trying to represent what a multiplayer match will feel like. War stories will different. I'm betting a month or two after release some men will be playing as women and there will be some running around looking like the ones in trailer or lot worse. Others will want to stay authentic and pick basic realistic options.

[Hungryalpaca]

Why do you people keep focusing on the woman? There’s bigger issues people have with it.

[NXFather]

I'll pick it up from the bargain bin but that was regarless of who's in it. =)

Depends though.

[DonkeyWalrus]

Nobody is upset about women being in games. Women have been in games literally ever since the beginning of video games. What is annoying is statements like "it's the right time to do so" which make absolutely no sense, because as I said, games have already had women in them for decades. These developers seem to want people to praise them for their supposedly brave or heroic decision to add women into their game, as if they are the first ever to do something like that...

Then they dismiss any criticism of their game as only coming from people who are just misogynist, sexist, whatever. They try to put themselves on some sort of moral high ground that makes them feel superior and above any sort of criticism. Maybe you could pick out a few genuine woman-haters, but they are a small minority.

[SixFragz]

Correct. But no matter how much we preach this, blinded and crusading SJW's and their supporters will believe that our problem is with the actual females in the game...

They see and hear what they want to, and nothing else, then they degrade, defame, and demoralize those who don't think as corruptedly as they do.

[rainslacker]

While youre probably right that the game will.sell fine, it doesn't mean that people can't express their opinions. It also doesn't mean that people can't express their distaste to the callous nature that this developer is taking using their game to promote an inclusion agenda which has become beyond.

Not expressing discontent is not a sign of growing up, it's a sign of complacency. Something people with no willpower or desire to see positive change do.

Some may still buy the game, but some people don't, because the issues at hand have been aggravating gamers for a while now, so the longer it goes on, the more people vote with their wallets...unless you think sw:bf somehow sold to it's full potential.

Just because you want to accept it as is, doesn't mean others do, so I'll ask you take your own advice, and grow up and realize you aren't as smart as you think you are, nor are you somehow an authoritative voice to tell others what they should think

[BadElf]

But....I never said I am not buying it. Never said this has offended me. Just stating opinions. Just having a coversation. You seem to be getting extra heated, and seem to be confused

[ArchangelMike]

Anyone who has read a few of my posts will know that I loath SJW nonsense, and their increasing influence in gaming, but seriously, I have never thought that these games were going for historical accuracy, but were more focused on the fun factor. In any case, all the historically accurate detail is lost on the majority of players any way, and they couldn't tell you the difference between a panzerschreck and a bazooka. More customisation options are always welcome imho, as long as it doesn't break gameplay.

[KaiPow]

Exactly this! I rather enjoy the customization and silly costumes they've been putting into shooters these days and couldn't care less if it was an all-female cast or one of diversity. Just make the gunplay fun.

[ONESHOTV2]

ArchangelMike"all the historically accurate detail is lost on the majority of players any way, and they couldn't tell you the difference between a panzerschreck and a bazooka" wow that's insulting there are millions of gamers and every one of them think differently yeah some of them may not know about WW2 and the types of equipment used but to put everyone in the same basket plz don't ever do that again. and BTW i have no problems with woman being in the game but let's not forget the other problems that they don't want to talk about from a BF fan since 1942-BF1

[ArchangelMike]

@ Oneshotv2

I didn't put all the players in one basket, I made a differentiation by saying "the majority of players" don't know the historical differences between which weapons were used in which wars, and I stand by that statement. The game was never meant to be a history lesson of historically accurate events.

All the other issues are irrelevant at this point, because only a very select few journalists have seen actual gameplay. This storm-in-a-tea-cup is typical of gamers, and their knee jerk reactions without first waiting to verify the facts.

At least wait for the actual gameplay reveal - heck even better, wait for the Beta. Play it, then you have an informed experience with which to make a valid judgement on the game. Everything before that is just vain assumptions and ignorant rantings.

[The 10th Rider]

I'm definitely for some customization. However I was really looking forwards to a new Battlefield that provided an experience that made it feel like you were there on the frontlines, even if it wasn't exactly a realistic take. I know personally when I first sat down to play BF1 on my PC and popped on a nice headset with the volume up it was an incredible experience. The bullets whizzing by, bombs going off around you. I know it's not accurate or "real", but in that moment it feels kind of like it is. The customization options that they showed off for BF5 were so over the top that it was jarring and I feel like it would immediately take me out of the moment. From what it sounded like even Battlefield Hardline had the option to turn off viewing customization, but BFV doesn't. If they simply implemented a feature like that it would completely negate the controversy for most people. Hopefully at the very least not all the customization options are so over the top.

[WeAreLegion]

I'd upvote twice, if I could. I hate the SJW crap. This is what actual equality is.

[D0ffy]

Couldn't have put it better myself. Anti-SJW nonsense is no better than SJW nonsense. In the end, they're both nonsense.

[-Foxtrot]

Bullshit considering there was a woman in Battlefield 1 and nobody gave a shit. Her along with the black character were based off actual people during WW1.

Kara Fatma

http://i.imgur.com/EPcwzlZ....

Henry Johnson

https://lintvwiat.files.wor...

They told their stories in the game which was the entire point of the "War Stories" missions, if people didn't kick up a fuss then then obviously there has to be a bigger reason for the supposed "uproar" now don't you think?

[ArchangelMike]

The uproar is misguided, for two primary reasons - least of which is that Battlefield games, and specifically Battlefield V is not about WWII historical accuracy. It's just the setting for a Battlefield game to take place in; therefore the devs are free to take as much or as little poetic licence as they see fit. That's called creative freedom, and it is good thing that we must stand for as gamers, if not we become just as SJW as the SJWs.

Very few people play Battlefield games for the 5hr single player story, and the very few that do are playing it for the story and not for historical accuracy reasons. So the vast majority of players are not going to touch or complete the single player campaign anyway, regardless of what DICE decide to put, or do not put in it.

Moreover, Battlefield games have obviously always been primarily multiplayer games.
First-person-multiplayer games. Which means that the skin that you are running around in is secondary the function of the class that you've chosen. It is completely irrelevant if your assault or medic class is male/female or has brown skin, white skin or yellow skin, or go faster stripes painted on their face. And you're never really close enough to the enemy notice, or to care in the heat of battle when you're getting shot in the head. Anyone who says they want less customisation options in their multiplayer game is simply an idiot.

[FunAndGun]

lol, you bamboozled yourself Foxtrot. ....and will still try to deflect out of it.

[CaptainObvious878]

I agree with you, fox, but you're wasting your breath of these intellectually dishonest people.

You make an excellent point about how no one cared about the previous female character, that should have immediately ended the pathetic straw man argument of "you're just sexist and don't like women, hur dur!", but it's evident to me know they're going to continue to be deliberately stupid. The prospect of looking so moral by calling other people sexist is too alluring for them to have a proper argument.

[FunAndGun]

One was in the reveal of the game, one came in an expansion of a game already released. They are not comparable in his or your explaination.

For someone named CaptainObvious, you sure like to gloss over obvious differences in examples. Then you call others intellectually dishonest when you are willfully ignorant.

So, stop being sexist! ^_^

[jmc8888]

People did put up a fuss. I remember seeing it.

It was right/wrong. Wrong in that for the most part, it was men, white men fighting, or arabs/turks. But also right in that there were women and people of african descent in the wars themselves.

I think it came down to... why are they focusing on these specific people. Of the millions that fought in WW1, they cherry picked from what amounted to a few hundred or thousand and that made it seem unrealistic. Obviously it was an agenda driven virtue signal, which infuriates people because that cuts across everything else.

It would be like making a civil rights movie about Bernie Sanders, after all he got arrested for protesting.... instead of MLK or something like everyone would expect.

It may be historically accurate, but it seems off. Nevertheless, I don't think it's a big deal one way or another. As I said earlier, I'll gladly take some non-authentic cosmetics for no season pass and thus free maps (that'll actually get used because everyone has them).

[sushimama]

I don't give 2 flying F's... but saying things like "it's the right time to do so" just gives the opposing views more credibility. It feels like they're going out of their way to do this because 'now' is the time to push this movement lol.

I loved Lost Legacy and I loved Horizon Zero Dawn. I love Aloy as a character so very much and her story is awesome. I don't care in the slightest that BF5 has a female on the cover or in the game. But it does feel like some companies are kind of forcing all kinds of gender and racial diversity. I'm with it, but I can understand why lots of people aren't.
Companies are almost like... "ok, the game is set in 1944, now we've got to have a black person here, here and here. We need a muslim over here, and I would like an Asian man as tactical support over here. Now Todd, I'm really really pushing for a woman for the main character here. It's the right time to do so. We'll have her on the cover, she'll be so skilled that she can beat up all these big bad men. She can't have a big bust or rounded hips, but she'll be fit and very slender and be a skilled warrior. Her partner in crime will be a homosexual savage with a sweet side and a love of fashion."

[drpepperdude]

No Asians are not who they push it's only female, black, muslim, and gay lol. Liberals only promote them because they are racist and heterophobic themselves.

[CrimsonGuardVII]

ppl like you must of forgot how much of a control freak conservatives sjws were for many years in the usa, the same ppl who would petition the fcc over cuss words and other minor bs, like not agreeing with there principle's ect, even tried to ban garbage patch kids cards back in the day, i am not fond of sjw dominated world but, but the old conservative sjws were a lot worse, and looks like there coming back, they were all about the censorship, at least with liberals sjws you get to choose to ignore them, where as extremist conservatives sjws tried to ban everything they deem unworthy as if they know best. not to mention its bit hypocritical of them complaining about agendas, when they done the same kinda crap, just there version instead.

[drpepperdude]

@xCRIMSONxGUARDx
I agree with the argument against the extreme conservatives but the difference is I'm extremely against that side just as much as the SJW side while you give one side leeway.

[Omnislashver36]

"Her partner in crime will be a homosexual savage with a sweet side and a love of fashion."

Not really seeing the problem with that. Some of it is hilarious and relatable.

[Cueil]

I'm cool with that if it is something of its own. I'd totally buy a game based off the book Spinward. A LitRPG about a girl and her trans friend she meets on the game.

[Bobafret]

You forgot the Eskimo, Pacific Islander, and Albino Dwarf.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

As long as the game is fun

[1-pwnsause-1]

no one's saying not to add female soldiers in this setting...the problem is the lack of authenticity....Female soldiers did serve in WW2....But mostly in Support units....except for the Soviets....They had women fighting the frontlines, Female soviet soldiers and Airmen alike.....

[1-pwnsause-1]

I feel like if DICE were smarter, that woman thats gonna be on the front cover should've been soviet. theres a ton of war stories to talk about there....Female Soviet snipers where deadly... and its nice to see the war from that angle..

[franwex]

From the article: “then pointed out that other World War 2 themed games are available for those seeking maximum authenticity.”
Basically he is saying do not buy this game if you want an authentic experience.

[Anzil]

I know its weird he thought they were doing a WW2 setting.

[FunAndGun]

Large percentage of their dollars are not coming from the game being authentic to the time period....let's be honest here.
Authenticity takes a major back steat to income, maximizing potentail customers (inclusivness), and fun. It's really that simple.

[BadElf]

Look at them acting all on their high horse. "There are other authentic games" ahhahaha. It's just funny

[FunAndGun]

They are on the high horse for saying, "hey, if you don't like it, don't buy it".....but the people telling them how to make their game and why are not? Good one.

[BadElf]

Have never told them how to make their game. Just stating an opinion.

[Cueil]

That sounds like Don Matrick talking about 24 hour checking for Xbox One

[Smokehouse]

At least they admit it’s not an authentic WW2 game lol. The optics in this stuff is so strange. “I knew it would be a fight buts it’s the right time” the right time for what? To tell your fan base to go somewhere else? It’s just weird business.

[drpepperdude]

It's liberal logic, you can't reason with them.

[Smokehouse]

I’m not a battlefield player but correct me if I’m wrong, BF has traditionally tried to be as authentic as possible. Not arma realistic but authentic. That was the draw to battlefield.

I usually play COD with buddies so I don’t know. I’m not liking bo4 and I think the no premium pass stuff sounds fantastic. I will probably be going BF this time around but it just seems strange to me. The females don’t bother me as much as the wild costumes and gimmicks. Why not keep your campaign respectful as you have traditionally done before? Why chastise people for liking your previous work and then tell them to go somewhere else? That’s not any kind of logic.

[CrimsonGuardVII]

you cant reason with conservative logic either, they are just as much control freaks as the rest of them.

[FunAndGun]

Avoiding anyone who uses the term "liberal logic" is a good rule for prosperity.

[Gaming_1st]

I totally agree and i will not be purchasing it either. I will have much other games to play.

[drpepperdude]

My problem is not the gimmicks but the reason they stated for adding them.

[FunAndGun]

Why, because they want to appeal to the largest demographic of game players. You understand gaming is mainstream right? All types of people play games, hence inclusion. Reach the most people = get the most dollars. Yes, you will lose hardcores, but they will make that up with more from other demographics.

[moomoo319]

This silly women argument aside, DICE is pulling some shennanigans right now. They are clearly copying fortnite's seasons model with tides of war, basing their monetization on timed cosmetic items, which definitely works for fortnite. However, if you are going to claim this game is in WW2, yet you plan on shoehorning in as many goofy and unrealistic cosmetic items as possible to maximize profits, do not then hide behind the guise of "diversity and inclusion". These things are in the game to make you money, hard stop. If people feel that doesnt mesh with the tone of WW2, that is a fair criticism, they shouldve came out and clearly said steam-punk, alternate history, or anything but actual WW2. The juxtaposition of their monetization model with the realities of world war is what people are having a hard time swallowing. But please, for the love of god, DICE and others need to stop pulling a disney by asserting that any criticisms against their product are the result of sexism and intolerance. Its bullshit, own up to the type of game your making, and respect your fans concerns.

[Majin-vegeta]

I must have missed where they said they would add wacky cosmetics...mind showing some proof?🤔

[Nodoze]

The face painted woman with one arm says hello. So does the face painted guy with no shirt and a mohawk. Need more?

The bottom line here is that if DICE wants to copy Fortnite - DON'T CALL IT BATTLEFIELD. Problem solved.

DICE Battle Royale - Alternate WW2 - FTP with cosmetics.

Then release Battlefield for the rest of us, as we did not ask to Fortnite copycat crap.

[moomoo319]

Pretty clear from the reveal the kind of quirky skins and styles youll be able to outfit your character with, do i need screencaps? They definitely confirmed time-exclusive cosmetic items, and defended these odd looks by saying the emphasis is on player choice. I dont mind options or stylistic choices, but their justification of it within the context of the game is questionable. "Diversity", "inclusion", "player choice" = we need to justify how we push these cosmetics in a game supposedly about WW2. Plenty of games support those ideals in the art and design itself, not how its used here to justify a weird tone and leaps in logic, as well as deflect criticism. The game is almost at odds with itself, which is why i think they went for Battlefield V instead of a WW2 related title, they just made WW2 their very loose background and setting.

[Realms]

Your pretty much onto something here funny how many gamers have no problem with female protagonist when it fits the storyline or game. Plenty of games include females that aren't shoe horned under the guise of inclusion or diversity and gamers have no problem with it because those games aren't pushing an agenda. It's clear EA's motivation is as you describe for them it's always about the money but many people have taken the bait and the discussion has change into something entirely different.

[windblowsagain]

Why does it bother people. Grow up.

[drpepperdude]

Why does it bother you that people are bothered. Grow up.

[madjedi]

Can you give a better response than lazy shaming language? Females in the game is not the issue it is the intent behind it. We have been gaming with female characters since the original Metroid, you people really need a new narrative, beyond childish men do not want to play as female characters. It"s beyond pathetic.

[Rachel_Alucard]

It bothers me and the millions of other people who have been following Battlefield for more then 10 years who have been invested in it's direction whether we want to be or not. I'd also also hate to see the same rot eat other games I enjoy and I'd prefer to see the buck stop here, as hopeless as that seems.

[Cybermario]

to be honest is the developers making a fuzz out of this more than gamers. "we knew the risks" no you did not, they react as if this was visionary or daring. There's been female characters for a long time, really most of us dont care for this at all.

[FunAndGun]

No, they just know how knee-jerk and fickle gamers are. Complaining to complain.

[NobleRed]

Authentic WWII games where??

[ginganinja]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

[Hungryalpaca]

You HAVE to get a pc to play them.

[Xristo]

Making a mountain out of a mole hill. I just laugh at how ridiculous this "controversy" is.

[Donnie81]

I'm ready to see some real gameplay

[Majin-vegeta]

I can guarantee 99.9% of people concerned will do a 180 after EA play

[Niv]

Cods ww2 was more realistic

[EDKICK]

Lol COD WWII realistic? You mean like how they removed Nazi symbols cause they're offensive. Or how the MP was full of tiny maps and spawn killing. Battlefield 1 was 10x the game COD WWII was and until I see otherwise I'm betting on Battlefield V being the same.

[Hungryalpaca]

Hey. Hey kid. BFV doesn’t have swastikas for the same reason. Go look at the cod wwii reveal then look at this. Same silly cosmetics and hectic scenes.

[EDKICK]

@Hungryalpaca
Battlefield 1 was still at least 10x the game COD WWII was simple as that, kiddo.
I usually judge my games on the game itself not the "hype" trailer.

[LiamKreptic]

Jesus we need a new N4G site...more like reddit. This site is just garbage...every article is pushing an agenda instead of looking at games. God damn

[smolinsk]

Why do people not understand that it has nothing to do with female being in the game, that's okay, they were in the war so why not in this game about the war, get over it guys.

The thing that is wrong an super irritating for us battlefield fans is that they are trying to be a fortnite kind of game with all that silly costumes and silly paint, I mean look at the picture with the four solders ligning up, looks exactly like fortnite cover.

Please dice don't fu.. Us over.

[Mista2018]

Right wing snowflakes are just as annoying as left wing ones.

[CrimsonGuardVII]

thankfully more ppl are beginning to see this.

[Anzil]

Woman are not the problem.

[Hungryalpaca]

If that’s what you think the issue you you aren’t paying attention or seeing what you want to see.

I’m what way does having soldiers appear as soldiers by not having trench coats, prosthetics arms and goofy cosmetics in a time period where this clearly did not happen a political thing?

Get off kotaku and actually read the complaints instead of being spoon fed.

[narsaku]

There is no fight. Ignore the crybabies. The internet is a sad place with sad people, no matter what you do.

If it sells, it sells. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

It's no different than trying anything else new. If it's not financially successful, don't do it again. Pretty simple.

I personally think it will be fine.

[HeisenbergX]

Ohh yeah DICE ? we'll see how many will buy your game after this.

[EDKICK]

Millions as usual, most likely, especially if the game is as good as Battlefield 1. I mean millions minus you I guess.

[GameGod26]

Well if you disagree then your anti women which is complete bullshit but I forgot there is no middle ground in today’s society. Ridiculous

[CrimsonGuardVII]

would you mind giving a moderates perspective?

[Anzil]

as long as it fits your moderate... correct?

[Hungryalpaca]

Sure. The large amount of complaints are the ridiculous cosmetics that break the immersion of the setting.

Pretty sure if you played a Star Wars game but all the storm troopers had stupid cosmetics such as broadswords and bows it wouldn’t exactly immerse you in the Star Wars universe now would it.

[Nodoze]

I am boycotting Saving Private Ryan - there were no one armed, face painted women on the front lines storming Normandy. Frankly private Ryan should have been a women, and should have been featured more prominently. Because, well just because it is now a thing. Let's make sure that war movies from here on out feature women (historical perspective be damned). I am also upset that the History channel documentaries do not feature more women focused documentaries about WW2. This is clearly because they have something against women and want to suppress the REAL history. Same thing with all of the archival footage from WW2. They simply do not show the 'real' footage that clearly shows women charging in on the front lines.

Women fought on the front lines of the Vietnam war too. They were deep in the jungle fighting.

Facts are fun:
.About seventy percent of women who served in the military during World War II held traditionally "female" jobs. They worked as typists, clerks, and mail sorters. Although these jobs may have been less glorified that those of the men fighting on the front lines, women were essential in maintaining the bureaucratic mechanisms that are necessary in warfare. Also, by filling office jobs that would otherwise be held by men, women freed more men to fight. Women were not permitted to participate in armed conflict but their duties often brought them close to the front lines. One way that women participated in dangerous work was through their work in the Army and Navy medical corps.'

http://libguides.mnhs.org/w...

FU DICE and your SJW Agenda.

[Mista2018]

^No-lifer alert!

[Gh05t]

"I have a daughter, and I don’t want to ever have to answer her question of “why can’t I make a character that looks like me” with “because you’re a girl.”"

If that is how he would answer that question than I feel bad for all the other rationalizations he sees in the world. As if the only reason in the past there were no female characters in WWII games was because all developers hated women. What a jackhole.

News to this dev, Youre no martyr.

[NXFather]

That will teach Dice to not let him make a NEW AAA IP.

Wow, I did not see Morganfell's comment before I typed.

[SixFragz]

There are other WWII games with authenticity out there? Fantastic. BFV could've been a great, authentic WWII game, because the game is absolutely not a depiction of WWII. Tote the game as an immersive WWII experience, and then show anything but. Force an agenda, and sales will suffer. Simple.

If you guys still really believe that the actual females in the game are the problem, then you don't understand why many are griping at all, so just stop with your false sense of self righteousness.

[47]

Now talk about the ridiculous costumes and accessories this game will have. You’ve covered the smallest grievance, the playable women, now talk about the real reasons this game has over 300,000 dislikes on its reveal trailer.

[zerocarnage]

Well let's face it you would not see w/o me n on the frontlines back then lime you did the men.

Most females worked in bomb factory, making bullets and gear for soldier's.

The only time you would get women fighting would when they were resistance fighters ie France when the Nazis took over.

Now time have changed and we have women in the armed forces who will fight and that is fair enough.

If authenticity is what they're looking for them just make the females look like resistance fighters there were alot who had no choice but to fight back when there country was occupied by the enemy.

[Christopher]

The right hand is not talking to the left here. DICE PR claims authenticity, DICE developers claim not authentic.

This is why some people are complaining.

Some are just idiots, though.

[RauLeCreuset]

Some people are going to claim it's the former, because who wants to identify as the latter?

[ginganinja]

Have they though? I've seen meaningless waffle phrases like, 'back to its roots' and suchlike, but I can't remember seeing them claim it was going to be authentic or historically accurate.
I may be wrong though.

[Bladesfist]

I doubt most people here even know what DICE PR and DICE devs have been saying, I doubt they could identify these conflicts.

Most people just seem to be upset about politics.

[Tross]

Do people think about historical accuracy when they blast people in online multiplayer? As long as having more avatar choices doesn't affect the gameplay I'm cool with it. I'm less cool with the prospect of MTs in this game, but that's a topic for another time.

[i3eyond the Circle]

My dude... you can heal muufukas with defibrillators and throwing boxes with medical logos on it and fix damaged vehicles with a Tim the Tool Man Taylor power drill..

What war authenticity are these offended morons looking for?

[ion666]

I hope there will native Americans in there since they're adding everybody.

[bluefox755]

No one is complaining that they added females, they're complaining because of the reason they added females.

[Mithan]

If this was trying to be an "authentic" experience, I would care. It isn't though, so I don't care.

[2pacalypsenow]

"He then pointed out that other World War 2 themed games are available for those seeking maximum authenticity."

Sounds like something else heard in 2013.

[Tankbusta40]

No purchase from me... Great job guys

[GrimReaperGamer]

I'll continue to pass on SJW garbage like this. It's nice that BF1943 is now on X1, looks like I'll be playing some of that MP instead.

[inxine]

i dont see the actual problem about all of this? women served in ww2. i think ppl are just too insecure to play a female character in a multiplayer game. just ridiculous. if ur mates laugh at you for playing a woman in BF, then they are not ur mates. period.

[quenomamen]

STOP IT, it's not about the female character. Gamers have been playing as females since the days of Metroid, Tomb raider etc. Its the fact that they made her a Fortnite reject along with the Braveheart extras. BF games where suppose to be the opposite of COD

[Aloren]

That's strange. I don't remember people being so obsessed with "historical accuracy" last year when they made a ww1 game without Russian or French characters in the story, that was quickly dismissed as "it's just a game and they said there will be a dlc".

So basically, ignoring two Nations of the "triple entente", Nations representing almost two thirds of deaths and military wounded in ww1 was ok, but now for some reason adding women in a WW2 game is almost seen as historical revisionism ?

[Aloren]

(I meant two thirds among allies of course)

[EpicFruityPie]

it's a game who cares want authentic go watch a documentary

[Artemidorus]

Anyone who takes battlefield seriously for genuine military sim or historically correct needs to think again.

It's meant to be fun.

[NickAwesome]

The people that dont see why people are bitching about Battlefield V are retarded for thinking that we hate the fact that there’s women, it’s the fact it’s a SJW trash again, Women serverd but not in the western front. The games marketed towards pc culture. #NotMyBattlefield

[Kaii]

Extra customization options means more $$$
Slightly Interested due to no season pass, looked at how battlefront 2 was handled, and now ditched because "What's the point"

[Enturax]

Here's a thing I started thinking about yesterday: there are so many people who genuinely believe that giving so much attention to females is literally insulting, but then wouldn't be recreating wars just so people can kill each other for funzies even more insulting?

[fatbastard11]

The thing is that the generation of gamers that didn't play the Medal of Honors or first three Cods are going to think WW2 consisted of women and transgenders.This is just plain old wrong.Period.These devs are slowly but surely rewriting history.

[pinkcrocodile75]

Hangon.

It's a video game, thats all it is.

So to twist something like this into a faff of men and women is cretinous.

EA and Dice: Ignore these morons and complete your vision. Then be content in being judged on that and that alone.

[Drakul]

No BF for me this time.

[CrystalFantasy]

I remember when Battlefield used to make it a point how realistic their game was compared to COD.

[FITSniper]

Yeah us terrible men who don't like the idea of women getting killed/maimed in combat. How chauvinistic of us.

Don't make a WW2 game if you don't want to ground it in WW2.

[chiefJohn117]

Remember when games.... were games? Good times. Now ppl fuss about your character not needing a pee break all cause it's historically accurate lol. Leave these ppl alone and them make the game they want. They're countless WW2 games let them build a WW2 setting in their eyes. After all it's a game. Last I checked we don't have elf's running around with swords. Or wall running jetpack soliders.

[bigmalky]

Everyone needs to stop.

EA are purposefully creating this sort of argument, because they know that if they cause enough of a two sided argument, customers with one mentality will buy it for moralistic reasons, rather than question why this argument is a thing in the first place.

They have had so much bad rep from Mass Effect: Andromeda and SW: Battlefront II that they are hoping for the controversy sale.

People are not looking at this with a clear head.

Creativity is great, but instead of explaining why things are not realistic, they are creating dev interviews to stoke the fire.

It's unbelievable.

[Psychosious]

Dice needs to shut up... they decided to sell their company to ea, enjoy your choice.

[M1MB]

Have we reached peak crybaby yet?

[Platformgamer]

of course this is the time, females are in a more powerful position than mens
sexual equality is an arabic fenix

[bluefox755]

"I Knew Adding Female Soldiers Was Going To Be A Fight"
But he was just so damn virtuous, that he was willing to take up that battle. How else would we know how virtuous he is?

[Tankbusta40]

DICE you're free to put transgender mutants in your world War 2 game but I am also free to pass on it for the same reasons.

Also if you're going to put a female on the cover why wasn't it Lyudmila Pavlichenko( a real female war hero) and not some hipster girl with a bionic arm?

[blade206]

Same reason people hated the black character in Battlefield 1