New PS4 Controller Is Riffing Hard on Microsoft's Super Customizable Controller In a Very Good Way

Gizmodo:

One of the best controllers you can get for your PC or Xbox is the super customizable Microsoft Elite, but if you’re a PS4 fan you’ll have to go to third party peripheral maker Scuf to get any kind of customization. We’ve liked Scufs PS4 controllers in the past quite a bit, but its latest PS4 controller, the Vantage, throws out the PS4 design to create a hybrid even Microsoft would be proud of.

[Thatguy-310]

Sony needs to make an official one themselves with the analog placement next to each other!!!!!!!! Until then I'll gladly pass. This looks cute tho

[Neonridr]

well you can get the older Scuf models that keep the thumbsticks to the old placement. I have a Scuf Impact controller, and while it was pricey, I love it.

[Thatguy-310]

nice, I'll have to check them out then thanks!

[NapalmSanctuary]

Scuf Impact controllers are best controllers ever.

[Jinger]

Scufs don't have 4 paddles though and the additional bumper buttons, right?

[NapalmSanctuary]

@Jinger Scuf impact and Vantage have 4 paddles. Its the Infinity series that only has 2 paddles.

[Gaming_1st]

Scuf is overpriced junk.

[Neonridr]

@Jinger - yeah there are a few controllers that have 4 paddles, the article is incorrect by saying no previous Scuf model has had 4. But none of them have these new "Sax" buttons, those are brand new.

[Elwenil]

I've been told that Scuf controllers have a lot of issues and they don't stand behind them. A lot of playes have recommended Battle Beaver controllers instead. Me personally, I use a standard controller with a set of Modsticks I installed.

[Christopher]

It's a certified controller, so it is instead of them making their own.

In addition, this isn't the first to copy the XBO controller along with having paddles that is also SIE certified.

https://nacongaming.com/rev...

[Aceman18]

I'm good with the DS4 layout I'm a human being with symmetrical hands not a GD alien lol.

[XtaZ]

Yet you don't use the sticks the same way in your games, and that's why the Xbox layout is superior and far more comfortable and why most third parties copy the Xbox layout when they can.

[Gunstar75]

So you use both sticks at all times? Never one analogue stick and buttons??
Xbox's controller is a design choice. The dual shock's analogue placements are an evolution of the original PS1 design. They had to stick them somewhere

[dirkdady]

Let's not kid ourselves Microsoft had to do staggered sticks due to patent with Sony.

[Christopher]

I don't get either side of this argument. My hands work with both as I assume the hands of most others does as well. It's really just preferences that typically amount to being more comfortable holding something larger, thumbstick feel, and the like. Placement can be overlooked after 8 hours of gaming as muscle memory kicks in and starts taking care of the rest.

[UnHoly_One]

Omg, it's the old "symmetrical hands" argument.

My hands are symmetrical, too.

That is a ridiculous argument. If you like it better, fine, but it has nothing to do with your hands being the same.

Try quickly hitting a D Pad direction on a PS4 controller with your right hand so you don't have to stop moving with the left stick and then come back and tell me how superior that design is.

[darthv72]

Patent had nothing to do with it dirk... it was more about comfort and use. Sony initially treated analog as an afterthought in response to N64 having a central analog stick. They did not want to compromise the existing games on the market by switching placement of the dpad with a thumbstick so they put them in the lower center. They retained that design throughout the course of the PS2 and PS3 to maintain bc with previous games designed where dpad was the primary control.

I get that many just got used to that layout but it isnt ideal. you can force yourself to adapt but over long periods of time it puts stress on the tendons due to the inward nature you are forcing your thumbs to face. If you put your hands in front of you as if you are holding a controller, you find the thumbs face more forward than inward. The evolution of the controller simply moved the new standard of control (analog thumbstick) where it should be to keep your thumbs in the more forward position. Left thumb faces forward for directional movement while the right thumb faces forward for interaction.

the right thumbstick placement to the lower center is fine because that is used for looking around in certain games and still to this day is secondary to the action buttons. The whole symmetrical vs non is really pointless because you dont do the same actions with each hand or its digits. Each one is doing something independent for the other, especially when gaming.

[DonkeyWalrus]

If you care deeply about thumbstick placement... well you're just being silly because it literally doesn't matter. Every game is different in how it uses thumbsticks and buttons and you don't spend 100% of your game time using only thumbsticks, so your thumbs are going to be moving all around regardless.

Pretty much every real human I know doesn't actually give a shit, and they are fully capable, able bodied beings who find no trouble going back and forth between different controller designs. When I play an xbox game or ps game, the last thing on my mind is where the damned thumbsticks are on the controller.

If you're not disabled, you should be able to simply look at whatever controller you are given and use it properly. Just use the nerve endings in your thumbs to sense where the sticks and buttons are without even looking, most people don't have trouble with this.

A controller is a controller. If you can hold it and comfortably reach all the buttons, then the design works and specific arrangement of things doesnt really make much difference.

[Aceman18]

@tucky

My thumbs never, and I mean never collide when I'm playing on PS4. They've never collided on any of the DS controllers for the systems.

[Razzer]

@tucky

thumbs colliding is a damn myth. I would have to put the analog sticks at the very bottom of my thumbs in order to purposely achieve that. xbox fanboy nonsense.

[Jmanzare]

You must have a very hard time pushing buttons then. Are your opposable thumbs not opposable?

[NatFanBoyRestricted]

Takes a jab at xbox controller, then KBM lays him out cold.

[maybelovehate]

Just curious but why do you want the analog's next to each other? It is so uncomfortable compared to having them offset.

[Razzer]

Maybe because his hands are different from your hands?

[Aceman18]

Not to me.

[rainslacker]

I don't have a problem with the placement of either layout. I use the DS much more, so I'm more used to it, but neither controller has a bad layout.

[dumahim]

Kind of tired of Sony licensing out their stuff. The PS4 universal remote flat out sucks. It's so bad that either the pop-up menu or the top menu button doesn't even do anything when PS4 mode is selected. None of the baked in profiles for my cable box are any good. Some have like 3 buttons that work for jumping forward, but none to go back.

[IamTylerDurden1]

No thanks, i'm comfortable with the original stick placement. The DS4 is one of my all-time favorite controllers and very feature heavy for a launch controller. The only issue was the rubber on the sticks wearing out, but they seem to have made it far more durable now. I'm good, unless Sony develops a reasonably priced Elite controller in the $80 range. I'm not big on twitch shooters and competitive mp. I'd rather spend 150 on the Platinum PS headset with 3D audio than a controller with replaceable parts.

[NapalmSanctuary]

The Scuf Impact ps4 controllers are great. They keep the Dual Shock stick configuration but have a shape more like 360 controllers, specifically to make room for four paddles. A tad pricey, but well worth it if you can live without the dough.

[Neonridr]

yep, I like the bulkier shape of the Impact. I find the regular DS to be a slim.

[terstomp]

Using Playbudz extenders on the DS4 makes it way better.

[G3ng4r]

This controller actually put the left stick where it's supposed to have been since gaming moved into 3d.

[darthv72]

Offset sticks just feel more natural. As primary directional input shifted from dpad to analog stick... it just made sense to put the left stick in first position.

[LordMaim]

It feels more natural because that's what you're used to. Your thumbs aren't in different spots on each hand, after all. You had to train them to function that way, by years of Xbox controller use.

[Snookies12]

Exactly, it's the control layout you use most over time that becomes the most 'natural feeling'. It has nothing to do with offset or symmetrical sticks. I prefer symmetrical personally, but have no issues with offset.

[darthv72]

Try years of control pad use. If you look at any control pad (even the PS one) you will find first position is for direction (left) and interaction (right). your thumbs natural resting point is forward, not to the side or bent inward.

When digital was the primary input, the dpad was naturally placed in first position. But time changed and less and less digital control was used (sans for fighting games) and more analog control was being used. Hence switching the dpad for the analog stick in first position does not change the orientation of your hands unlike moving both sticks to the center. The left stick is primary directional control and should be forward like the face buttons continue to be.

I can only imagine the reason sony never changed it was due to keeping support for older dpad designed games prior to the analog shift.

[Zeref]

I was a PlayStation gamer until xbox 360.
I instantly preferred the Xbox controller over the PS2/PS3.

So it's nothing to do with what you're used to.

[NapalmSanctuary]

@Darth&Zeref Its all about preference. While I prefer the shape of the 360 controller, the stick config is awkward for many, myself included.

[G3ng4r]

@LordMaim "Your thumbs aren't in different spots on each hand, after all."
Exactly why the stick config on dualshock is kind of dumb and archaic, particularly after ps1. Do you prefer to move in three dimensions with a stick or d-pad?

[LordMaim]

@G3ng4r
Not sure what your point is. My thumbs touch the analog sticks in the same way from each side.

[bluefox755]

Not to me. I grew up on playstation, I never truly got used to the offset sticks.

[mandingo]

grew up on playstation still think offset sticks are more comfortable

[Strange_Evil]

There is nothing natural about having your thumbs offset. Yes, using something for a while will make your body adapt to it, but for me, the PS4 controller feels more natural due to the symmetric layout. There is nothing wrong or right in this. Just preference

[chiefJohn117]

Well not really. In GOW where are your thumbs placed? On the buttons and left stick(offset) in just about every game but shooters you're gonna have you right thumb on the buttons. (Jump, pick up, action, attack, etc) and your left thumb on the movement controls Which would the the left stick or dpad depending on the game. So your argument is dead right there. anyone saying offset stick is unnatural your argument is dead simply because it's most likely if not guaranteed you play many games where your thumbs are off set even on the ps controller. A better argument is simply "I feel more comfortable"

[Strange_Evil]

@chiefJohn... I place my thumbs on the stick cause I have to control the camera using it and it feels natural. In fact, having the left stick offset will mean I need to stretch my thumb from the natural position it wants to land in which causes fatigue if I want to always keep my left thumb on the stick. 95% of the games, you'll have your left thumb on the stick cause you need to control the camera. Your argument is subjective and moot (Also what you've written makes very little sense).

[darthv72]

@strange... uhh the left stick controls directional movement, not camera. That would be the right stick (by default). Now maybe you are reversing the controls to your liking which is preference but otherwise having the left stick in the forward placement is more natural when engaging in movement while the right thumb is also forward engaging in the action buttons.

[madforaday]

They actually did a study a while back with the MS controller and PS controller (360/PS3). They found that the PS controller gives you more precise aiming because the joysticks are parallel to one another. Also, the PS joysticks had a bigger circumference than the MS controller. I remember they asked a bunch of non gamers to play games with each controller. Some started with MS first and some with PS. Of course, it wasn't a super drastic difference.

[marloc_x]

*citation needed

[Realms]

So your preference equals natural? Natural to you maybe but what about those that rarely played on the xbox? Come on man use some common sense.

[darthv72]

No, natural as in when your hands are at rest in front of you. Put your hands in front of you as if you are holding a controller. You find your thumbs point more forward than they do inward.

[rainslacker]

@Darth

That would be true if you are holding your palms facing more down than what would be considered a natural resting position(as in turned up on a rotation towards the outside of the body a bit)

For how I hold all controllers, even the old style NES ones, my hands rest in my lap, with my thumbs being on top of of my palms, and my fingers underneath. The PS controller accommodates this. So does the Xbox controller. But the Xbox controller makes you shift your left thumb into a less natural position.

It's not so much it should affect anyone, and which one feels more natural really is just which one you are more used to. But feeling and what is actual natural are two different things, and what you're suggesting isn't a natural position.

When you talk about old d-pad controllers, I guess you don't remember how uncomfortable they could be on the thumb over a period of time. Some controllers, like the original PS controller through the current DS, fixed this a bit by having a more rounded slope to cradle the hand, so you don't have to extend your thumb so far into the palm

Look up anatomical position. It's the common reference point for anatomical references to the human body. Now, take that, and turn the elbows so the hands rest in the lap....where most people have their controller when playing. Look at the position of the thumbs(other fingers are irrelevant). They're symmetrical and pointed towards the interior of the body parallel with one another, in about the position of where the DS analog sticks are located. There isn't one, or both, that somehow angle upwards. If you do this in a 3D program, the hands are in about the same position that they are when holding the DS controller.

Just realistically put your hands in your lap like you're holding a controller and you can demonstrate this yourself.

[darthv72]

@rain... this pic is of the xb controller with left on movement and right on action buttons
http://cdn1.alphr.com/sites...

this pic is of the ps controller with left on movement and right on action buttons.
https://d2gg9evh47fn9z.clou...

when analog movement became the dominant input method, it just made more sense to put the left thumbstick forward.

[Realms]

Yeah no that is not natural it's offset you don't use your hands and thumbs in that matter, you should have said that you got used to the xbox controller and you are more comfortable with that controller. Been playing since the NES days the xbox controller is no better or worse to me than anything that's come along and I played a lot with the N64 controller that introduced analog sticks so yeah it's just a matter of getting used to something, I know this because prior to that we only had D-pads so you had to get used to playing with that N64 controller.

[rainslacker]

@Darth

That isn't a natural resting position for the hands. The wrists are tilted forward(or down, depending on your perspective). I'm speaking of natural resting anatomy. One giveaway is that they are holding the controller in an upward position. I don't know about you, but I don't know many people that play games like that, unless maybe they're playing at a table instead of in a chair or couch.

You cited "natural", by which I thought you meant resting position,since that's how the term tends to be used when referencing anatomy

What I'm referencing is easily demonstrated by just resting your hands in your lap from the default anatomical position used for images, with the arms pointed down at about 30 degrees, palms and body facing the anterior. Then you just turn the elbows in, sit down, and the hands, palms, and thumbs sit exactly how the DS controller would sit in one's lap, with no need to adjust the wrists.

Do this movement in any 3D program with accurate skeletal composition, and the natural position would be like how you hold the DS controller. It's not even a debate, it's actual science which is easily demonstrable. The reason the D-Pad is slightly offset when they designed the original controller is because it was easier to use and input all four directions than when the thumb was always resting on the leftward side of the d-pad when placed similar to the analogs now. This was something seen in some older 3rd party controllers, and while it was comfortable enough, they tended to not feel as good for D-Pad control. It feels fine for analog though, since your thumb is capable of subtle movements that the analog uses.

In any case, it neither makes sense, nor hurts to move the analog stick where it is. I can use either. Find both comfortable enough. And like so many controllers in the past, I've gotten used to them pretty quick, and haven't had issues with them being uncomfortable since the original NES days....and the TG-16.

[ocelot07]

Looks nice but the thumb sticks are in the wrong place!!!!

[SuperSonic91]

Kinda awkward placement when doing the L3 & R3 Spartan Rage if you ask mee 😅

[Jinger]

Controller looks fantastic. Finally a more comfortable designed Dual Shock. I need another controller anyway, my one problem is the price. Yikes.

[xX-oldboy-Xx]

Haven't you seen the Nacon controllers? They've been out for a while and are an x controller.

[Jinger]

My main thing with that one is that it has to be plugged in and I wasn't a fan of the back "paddle" buttons. They look to small and close together.

[SuperSonic91]

Nah.
The analog stick placement doesn't look or feel right when doing the L3 & R3 Kratos Spartan Rage or 2B Self Destruct if you ask me. Not very PlayStation-like

[Jinger]

I mean... it's just clicking L3&R3.

[SpaceRanger]

Ergonomically it’s fact that symmetry is better for human hands. If you feel comfortable with off-set sticks it’s because you’ve become comfortable to that. In the end, you can’t go wrong with the standard controller.

As it is, the Xbox Elite controller (which this article brings up) has known issues after about 6 months of use.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

This is the most perfect controller ever made. It has everything. They even improved on the Scuf Impact with the stick placement. I want it yesterday. I just wish people would stop acting as if the Elite controller is the first of it's kind. Scuf and other companies have been doing this for years. Microsoft didn't come up with it themselves.

[jeffcoleII]

I love this design, but it’s a bit too pricey for me.

[PaleMoonDeath]

I can't stand the stick placement, I've never felt comfortable with it. Awful, just awful.

[isarai]

I have absolutely ZERO issues with the standard DS4 so i have no need for an "Enhanced" version. Plus i like the symmetrical stick placement and i doubt any 3rd party can do a D-Pad as good as the stock D-Pad which i always use for 2d platformers and fighting games.

[trooper_]

Meh, not a fan of those pads,

[FallenAngel1984]

My thumbs are symmetrical though

[Xavi4K]

Unless its in the quality of elite I will pass. Elite is the best controller I ever put my hands on.

[narsaku]

Bettery battery life?.. Or yet another POS DS4 addition?

[tulholdren]

Another controller with the sticks in the wrong spot ill pass. Saving money again bam.

[yardank]

As much as I love the DS4, I have to admit that the symmetrical sticks are not natural in terms of movement. When you want to move forwards or backwards in a game, it is more natural to push and pull the stick if it is almost directly above your thumb. With the DS4, your thumb has to reach towards the middle of the controller, giving it a ~65 degree angle which will cause your forwards or backwards movement to be slightly off unless you account for it.

In the end, it's all about preference. People will be quick to judge based on 'symmetry' but controllers were made that way for a reason, not to be unique.

[Mmmkay]

folding your hands feels natural. now see where your thumbs end up.

[yardank]

Ok...I'm not disagreeing with symmetry, I'm just pointing out that placing the sticks towards the outside of the controller is better for your thumbs. Just look at the Wii U Pro controller, probably the best design in terms of analog stick placement. Bottom line I said it comes down to preference but of course I would get disagrees for saying the DS4's not perfect. 90% of the users on this site wear rose-colored glasses.

[ClanPsi1]

Did the writer make up a new meaning for the word "riff"?

[SuperbVillain]

I hear scuf controllers begin to malfunction and break after a couple of months is this true

[Biunpe05]

Nope, thats not a PS4 controller, the left stick is in the wrong spot. Unless both sticks are in the correct spot its a hard pass from me

[_FantasmA_]

Ewww no thanks. Offset sticks are weird. Imagine boobs. Would you really want them to be offset?

[OffRoadKing]

Pass.

[terstomp]

I'll pass, it doesn't have symmetrical sticks.
I'm not sure about those side buttons, I think they'll accidentally get pressed.

[Scatpants]

Like the Elite only stupid looking and even more of a ripoff price. Kudos Sony, you completely screwed it up.

[AmUnRa]

This looks good, BUT i want the analoge sticks where they are on the official PS4 controller.
For me it is feeling wrong i hate the placement of the xbox one analoge sticks.