Ripping off the veil: The mysterious PS3 hardware scaler exposed

Since its launch last November, Sony's latest gaming platform has given early adopters trouble when attempting to play certain titles in 1080i/p. The console did not automatically upscale its video output to desired resolutions; it was up to either the game software to support these resolutions natively or the internal scalers of users' HDTVs. This forced many people, developers and owners alike, to question the very existence of scaling hardware in the PlayStation 3.

Worse, it created a sour taste in the mouths of owners of older CRT-based HDTV sets, many of which are not capable of accepting a 720p signal at all, and thus only capable of displaying 480i/p and 1080i video signals. If they wanted to run their games in HD resolution, the solution for these disgruntled owners until now was to hope that developers would release their games with 1080i/p support --not a walk in the park for the developer-- or, simply, to buy a new HDTV. As one can imagine, the latter was not the most well-received solution in the history of CE devices.

The key words in that last paragraph would be "until now," because with the latest PlayStation 3 software development kit (SDK) update, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) has finally exposed part of the built-in hardware scaler to developers.

Will this mean that most, if not all, future games will support output at 1080p/i resolutions? Moreover --and this is the question that owners of 1080i-only CRT HDTVs crave to see answered--does this mean that current PS3 games may eventually support the native HD resolution of their televisions? Well, the answer requires some good old-fashioned explanation. Read on for more info...

[Raiyel]

"At least now we can say with confidence that it does indeed exist."

yummy.

ready, set, eat your words xbots! oh, you didn't think sony would be THAT dumb did you?

[hardwood2001]

This still does not look good at all for reasons being that if you have to use the "RSX" to upscale your games on top of producing the game's original graphics, then you are taking more power away from the "RSX". It is not a complete "FIX" without any trade off.
Bottom line if a developer wants their ps3 games to try and compete with nvidia, ATI(AMD) and the Xbox 360's NEW-gen graphic cards, then this is best avoided.
I think this is the reason why sony hasn't made this mandatory after the SDK update.

[hardwood2001]

continue: that and adding to the development time of their games.

It does seem like Gabe Newell and otherS were right about the ps3...

By the way if you disagree with my comment then please feel free to post your "LOGICAL" reasoning. With the exception of "DJ" because he has lost a lot of credit ability on this site, during these pass few days if not weeks.

[hardwood2001]

sorry for reposting

[THE TRUTH]

I don't see why anyone can say Sony's PS3 has failed...... It's crazy to think that after 2 months on the market, that we already have certain fanboys screaming on there rooftops "THE WAR IS OVER"

Everyone seems to be fine with giving MS and the 360 a year to get it's stuff together, but these same people act as if Sony (who has pushed the technology in this Gen's console farther than any of the other two console makers) is supposed to hit the ground sprinting!

I say patients people let's give the PS3 a chance before we rip it to shreds. Sony is already providing a overly impressive Launch line up for Europe and PAL regions so obviously they do know what they are doing.

Relax and enjoy this new generation of games GAME ON GAMERS

[joemutt]

All the Sonybots were yelling "first to 10 mill wins"

That was a long time ago, and now that MS did it first, they dont say it anymore, I wonder why.

[eques judicii]

Sony put a scaler in there. But there seems to be one main difference between the 360 scaler and the ps3 scaler. the 360 scaler works by itself. so, if the developer makes a game that supports 720p they don't have to write additional code in order for the 360 to scale it up to 1080p. however, since sony did not put this into their operating system, developers have to code for the scaler themselves because it is (right now) only a horizontal scaler.

I do wonder why this was not put into the ps3 prior to launch.

Very few people are saying the war is over, truth, but sony is between a rock and a hard place as people clamour over the wii. The wii stole sony's thunder and this next christmas they are going to need something to combat Halo 3.

Its not that the ps3 can't make a comeback to first place, but that it is very far behind and losing ground to nintendo and microsoft daily. With better games they definitely have the ability... but remember, just like with the dreamcast and the original xbox, raw power doesn't necessarily win the console war, games do.

[Raist]

Why the ANA chip wasn't unlocked from the beggining in the 360 ?

[Fanboys are gay]

hey 3.1 the ANA chip was working from day 1 it was just restricted not to output 1080p

[Shadow Flare]

Duh...the uh, the title should be uh..."Ripping off the customer" instead. Huh huh. I am genius i am

[GaMr-]

@ #4. You seem to have the microsoft fanboys down to a science on here. ahahahaha it is true though. Somones going to do it. Garunteed. lmfao ahahah

[Scrumptious]

Prove DJ was full of BS when he sated the 10mb EDRAM on the 360 was too small for a 720p frame. This proves the EDRAM is more than enough. Did you think anyone aould believe you? I guess we should since you are a graphics artist/animator/game developer/head of Sony.

[joemutt]

He will take a break after that and start working on the PS4.

[Sphinx]

Actually, in all seriousness, I heard DJ was working on MGS6 since he already finsihed MGS5... then he's going to make Ken Kutagari some waffles.

[Raist]

Any game that use 720p and AA has to use tiling because it doesn't fit in the 10MB edRAM

[DJ]

They think that they somehow 'disproved me' when all they did was make themselves look worse. I've always stated that with Anti-aliasing, the 360's ED-RAM is not big enough to store entire frames.

2x anti-aliasing was one solution that some of the 360 developers tried in early launch titles since that cuts them below the 10MB limit, but it looks nasty and half-assed.

4x is the standard that gets nice clean edges, but bumps up frame buffer sizes to 14 MB when doing 720p (as shown in this article if you do some simple math). Because of this, Project Gotham 3 is actually rendered at something like 620p, something that other 360 devs are doing as well since it leaves them with 9.8MB framebuffers when doing 4x AA. Looks almost as good, and doesn't force them to spend precious system resources/time tiling and pasting pieces of frames back together in System RAM.

1080p frames with 4x anti-aliasing take up 32MB, so you can understand why not a single 360 title is rendered natively at that resolution (at least at the moment).

Sorry Guys, but my evidence still stands.

[JOLLY1]

didn't Microsoft say the 360 did 4x full screen AA without using any RAM. I am pretty sure they have a chip that does AA without using any RAM. Like I said I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure I'm right.

*EDIT* I am right....

ATI has stated that every single Xbox 360 game will be required to run at a minimum of 720p resolution with 4x Anti-Aliasing, writes bit-tech:

Speaking at a press conference in London, ATI technology specialist Rene Froeleke told journalists that Microsoft had specified that games must run at the 1280x720 resolution at 4xAA with no slowdown. Every single game will be supported at this graphical specification, which we think is great news for gamers playing on big-screen TVs.

Because of the embedded DRAM architecture of Xbox 360, the AA was described as 'Absolutely free'.

and to conclude, there are 360 games on the market right now that 1080P. Man liars are lame!!

[Raist]

It DOES come at a cost with 720p and 4x AA because it doesn't fit in the 10MB and has to go to the main RAM before being able to go back to the edRAM.

A native 720p framebuffer with 4xAA enabled doesn't fit in the 10MB. So either they use tiling, which has a penalty, either they "cheat" by rendering the game at a lower resolution with AA enabled, and upscale it. Like PGR3.
And no, there's no proof of native 1080p game at the moment on the 360.
SC:DA is not
Sonic is not
Lost planet is not
And Blue Dragon is very suspicious since it's 720p on the core system and said to be 1080p on the premium system. Why ? Can you explain that ? 1080p enabled thanks to the hard drive ?

[JOLLY1]

I am also talking about the edram. As you can see I even wrote edram in the comment. I have more info about the edram on post #11. Oh and its weird when I checked sonic was outputting at 1080p natively, good try. I am not sure about lost planet that game is too fun, I have just been playing that (sonic sucks)

[Raist]

And i've edited my post since.
Anyways.

You can check this link
http://www.beyond3d.com/art...

Scroll down to half of the page approx. Even 2xAA doesn't fit the edRAM with 720p.

And no, Sonic isn't 1080p native.
http://www.gamespot.com/xbo...

So yeah, the game's box says 1080p. Because now you can upscale, so they say the games support those resolutions.

Same goes for LP. Box says 1080p. But MS THEMSELVES on their website say LP is 720p.
You can check that here also, coming right from capcom's forums
http://www.capcom.com/BBS/s...

Just a marketing trick. And many people actually think those games are in native 1080p. While they're not.

[JOLLY1]

unfortunately for you your information is about a totally different style of edram. Learn all the facts before posting. I'm still quite sure sonic is 1080p. I will retest it tonight.

[TheMART]

Stop talking bullsh!t AGAIN

"4x is the standard that gets nice clean edges, but bumps up frame buffer sizes to 14 MB when doing 720p (as shown in this article if you do some simple math). Because of this, Project Gotham 3 is actually rendered at something like 620p, something that other 360 devs are doing as well since it leaves them with 9.8MB framebuffers when doing 4x AA. Looks almost as good, and doesn't force them to spend precious system resources/time tiling and pasting pieces of frames back together in System RAM."

PGR3 was lower then 720p because the game was started programming way long before the 360 hardware was available. Or even the specs probably.

You wanna know why you're talking sh!t? Because PGR3 has no, I repeat, no 4 x AA! For the simple fact they didn't even know how to include it. So your comment about them having games on 620p to have 4 x AA is total bull

Furthermore, that's the only game under 720p. You just picked a wrong example there...

[Maddens Raiders]

Hooray! KK you're an 'ol sneaky one aren't you? You didn't want this knowledge leaked 'til you got to Namco/Bandai did you?lol
Now get to work on Ace Combat 6 with your "new" kit dude!

[nambo]

There you'll find some technical people discussing this article and questioning whether it's an actual hardware scaler or a software trick.

"are they simply playing tricks with the TMDS transmitter, RAMDAC, or maybe some I/O chip? E.g. mess with some clock timings so that each "pixel" is held for twice as long. I still doubt the "hardware scaler"."

The authors even admit they do not know so to automatically assume there's one there is grasping at straws...well then again, if that's all you have keep grasping.

[nambo]

Quote from author of the article:

"I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't really a scaler per-se, although I *think* that's how it is being described to developers. We ran the story with what we knew - not with what we didn't. So hopefully we'll get to know more about this in the (near) future..."

[Sphinx]

If this fixes that problem, then that would take away another reason I haven't gotten the PS3. Keep it up, Sony. Make this upscaling work, come out with some good games, get the framerate issues fixed, stabilize the online service, and you'll have earned another customer.

[FeralPhoenix]

I read this article twice and I must confess that I'm not exactly sure how the author "believes" this "hardware scaler" works....I'm not saying he's blowing smoke, it sounds logical, but given his comments it does seem as if he was speculating about this scaler. While I don't doubt that Sony will be able to fix 720p/1080i problem with patches, this article only creates more doubt about the "scaling functionality" because it doesn't say that the PS3 has a "DEDICATED SCALER CHIP" as the title of this news article implies or maybe it doesn't "imply" that and I'm the one assuming thats what they meant....either way, from what I read this is obviously not a dedicated scaler its more of a patch solution to allow the developers to use code to implement for 720p/1080i rendering modes??? I thought they were suppose to fix this weeks ago, so what is Sony waiting for???

[JOLLY1]

10 MB of embedded DRAM

In today’s graphic chips, video memory bandwidth represents one of the most critical aspects. In order to increase memory bandwidth GPU manufacturers boost memory clock speed or implement a wider path.

The latest graphic cards from nVIDIA and ATI, such as the GeForce 6800 and the X800 series, use 256-bit interfaces to reach peak memory bandwidths above 30 GB/sec. Other methods to increase this resource are bandwidth saving techniques, such as data compression.

What if you could use find a way to eliminate current graphic architectures' bottlenecks? Well, ATI has found a way to do so.

They have developed a solution that allows them to break the bandwidth constraint of 30GB/sec found in today’s graphic cards and achieve a stunning 256GB/sec bandwidth. Although the use of embedded DRAM for graphics is not something new, with a failed attempt by BitBoys and a successful implementation in the Nintendo GameCube, this is the first time that someone has used such a large amount of embedded DRAM in this innovative way.

The Xbox 360 graphics subsystem includes 10 MB of embedded DRAM for the GPU to use it as a frame buffer. By using this embedded RAM, which is similar to a processor's cache memory, the Xbox 360 will be able to run games at 720p (1280x720) and 1080i (1920x1080) HDTV resolutions with full screen anti-aliasing and almost no impact on framerate. The GPU writes the back buffer, Z buffer, and stencil buffer to the eDRAM and when this special module has processed all the info, it transfers the back buffer to the system memory for scan out.

The eDRAM chip is manufactured using 90nm technology in NEC Electronics' 300-millimeter (mm) wafer fabrication facility, which runs the company's most advanced processes. NEC is also the provider of the Nintendo GameCube embedded DRAM, but we talking about different generations of eDRAM.

[DJ]

some new 360 titles say that they support 1080p on the casing, but none of them render natively at that resolution. They simply use the ANA chip to upscale from 720p to 1080p.

Microsoft had strict "720p, 4xAA" requirements for their games, but those requirements fell through the floor when developers simply couldn't meet them due to the limited size of the ED-RAM chip. It was a hardware issue.

http://media.xbox360.ign.co...

This is a direct-feed screenshot from Kameo. It's rendered at 720p obviously, but only as 2x anti-aliasing. Why? Because anything with greater than 2x anti-aliasing wouldn't fit in the ED-RAM at 720p resolution.

Microsoft should've coughed up the money to have (minimum) 32MB of ED-RAM. If they had done that they would've had at least one nice advantage over the PS3. Then again, they thought they were going to have to most powerful console this generation until the PS3 blindsided them. By the time PS3's specs were announced, the 360's hardware had already been finalized and it was too late for a revision since they were only 6 months away from launch.

[JOLLY1]

a pre-release render. Oh by the way it outputs 4x AA (the production version) I guess you did't read the tech specs, which is weird since you always seem to blurt out your own specs (that I haven't seen any proof of) Oh well

[FeralPhoenix]

Ha, ha, this is a good one, Bro do you like embarrassing yourself? -You picked early screenshots of Kameo which still looks better than the boring backgrounds/colors of games like Gundam for the PS3:
http://media.ps3.ign.com/me...

So are we suppose to believe that just because the Gundam dev's did a terrible job with utilizing the PS3's spec's that so will the most of the other dev's? or is it just that the PS3 isn't capable of anything better?....uhm, I would say NO, its just that was A BAD GAME.....UNLIKE KAMEO which looked and played much better by comparison and then when you look at early launch games like COD 2 and then early games like GRAW, its clear that the statement: "Microsoft had strict "720p, 4xAA" requirements for their games" actually worked well indeed. Too bad for you DJ, that wishful thinking doesn't equal FACT. -It just shows your envy, lol.

[DJ]

All you proved is that Gundam:Crossfire has 4xAA. Was that your intention? Again, not every developer had issues, but a lot of them did. The easiest solution, according to a few 360 developers, was to ignore ED-RAM entirely due to post-tiling artifact problems they were having.

With PS3 they didn't have to worry too much since the RSX has twice the memory bandwidth of Xenos. Putting framebuffers into the PS3's GDDR3 RAM isn't a big deal since Sony decided to have split RAM modules rather than a unified layout. Factor 5 already stated that the large frame buffer of 1080p frames with 4xAA (32 MB) didn't matter since they stream data from the disc and HDD anyway.

[InMyOpinion]

prove that the Ps3 has enough good games to make it wirth buying? Now that would be something lol! The 360 will have sequels before anything good hits the Ps3.

[hardwood2001]

"DJ" I have come up with the conclusion that you are neither a ps3 fanboy or even a pc fanboy, obviously you are not an Xbox 360 or wii fanboy either. I honestly believe that you are just one of those "SONY-PAID-TROLLS" here to flood the forums with deceit and liars.

[FeralPhoenix]

...that Kameo is a better game than Gundam: Crossfire, and that was all I intended.....YOU singled out a launch game so I singled out a launch game...thats all so my point is that the games for the most part will be based on what the dev's do with the hardware,( but of course you knew that already) furthermore it seems that its easier for dev's to make better looking games on the 360 so far.
DJ:
"according to a few 360 developers, was to ignore ED-RAM entirely due to post-tiling artifact problems they were having."
-Can you please provide a link from the "few developers" who ignored the ED-RAM because of the 4xAA issues?

Also its funny that you now believe the RSX is superior to the Xenos GPU, even though I remember you stating otherwise in the past.....what happen did the RSX, mysteriously become a "different chip" all of a sudden?

[DJ]

And it's based off of actual data. Xenos is more efficient, while RSX is more powerful. RSX has a much larger vertex cache, as well as specialized architecture for 128-bit HDR (which the Xenos doesn't have), quick XDR access, increased texture cache, etc.

Xenos on the other hand has unified architecture, and instead of using traditional pipelines it uses ALUs. ALUs don't have performance benchmarks, so we can't say exactly what the power difference is, or the performance hits taken for switching ALUs between vertex and pixel functions.

ATI stated that the RSX is more powerful, nVidia stated that the RSX is more powerful, and thus I believe both companies on their statements.

It actually has more to do with the layout of the two systems. Unified Architecture is what's holding the Xenos back. It's obviously a good GPU, but Microsoft made some questionable decisions by putting the CPU and GPU on a shared memory bandwidth. Sony's decision to have split memory pools and put in Flex I/O gives the RSX a big advantage since it gets twice the memory bandwidth as Xenos, as well as a dedicated 35GB/s connection to Cell and XDR RAM.

[vettle1]

i dont know about all the specs and crap, so the spec stuff is lost on me. but i do think 360 games look and play better IMO and thats all i need to know. im very happy with my purchase especially since it cost 200 dollars less.

[shikwan]

Exactly! When you have 'gamers' disputing a machines' technical specs, consistently (no matter what their console choice is) then "Houston-We have a problem!"

I could care less if Lost Planet is not native 1080p. It looks good! And there's no slow down.

Ask any of these guys if they've finished Lost Planet on the hardest setting, what's their best score in a game or if they've finished Oblivion, etc. They'll probably state they hardly play.

Sorry guys but sometimes y'all just need to STFU and PLAY THE GAMES!!!

[Maddens Raiders]

Resistance. No slow down with 40 players online. Ever. And a whole lot more $hit going on - on the screen at once than Lost Planet. Have you finished RFOM? Unlocked Hard and all the weapons. Hit the rooftops online? What's your best "score"? I play all the time. Look me up. I am Playing Games!!!

[GaMr-]

Im up to Grimsby on "Superhuman" I just got the "Reapers" cause im on my second time through. Those guns are bad ass. I must admit though I am whupping the "Cell" processors A$$. Even on Superhuman its not that hard. I thought this thing could levitate eggs and turn them to ravens. And online I played about 37 ranked rounds and im a 1st. Sergeant.
BTW before M$ fanboys attack. I also finished GOW on Hardcore. That was pretty challenging but kind of short. I dont play online much cause I have my gripes about the sometimes inevitable lag fest. Even though i love the "Kibbles and Bits" style frag fest. I think i'll wait for UT:3.

[Funky Town_TX]

I hope it performes well when they have 3 million ppl on it. By the time I get my PS3 the user base will be big anyway.

[testerg35]

I've yet to hear your input on this supposed "scaler" that the PS3 has. All I've heard is you do is change the subject.

[shikwan]

Sometimes y'all seem like y'all are having a discussion about which kernal is better; Windows vs. Linux--while at a topless bar!

Bottom line on this issue; Sure you can probably program the PS3's graphics chip to scale BUT nothing beats a DEDICATED scaler.

And BTW you guys need to stop the crap about this 720p/1080p. This hardly makes up graphics quality. I play Pac Man on XBLA. It runs at 720p NATIVE. (get it??)

[HaKeRsCanRotINHEL]

actually helped Microsoft and Sony engineer, have worked with, or programmed for either of these machines ... do you really know what they are truly capable of... I didn't think so! The future looks bright for both.

[PS360PCROCKS]

Today we bring you a new patent that was was approved on March 29th by the United States Patent and Trademark Office, in which ATI, Microsoft's graphics chip partner for the Xbox 360, is patenting a “method and apparatus for supporting anti-aliasing oversampling in a video graphics system that utilizes a custom memory for storage of the frame buffer.” In layman terms, that is embedded video RAM for the GPU to use it as a frame buffer.

In a world exclusive, TeamXbox was the first publication to reveal the existence of the embedded video RAM back in February, 2004. What a track record, eh? First we revealed the IBM-Microsoft deal, then this ;)
The patent, filed in August 2, 2000, exposes a custom memory used by the graphic chip for storage of the frame buffer.

This custom memory has been created mostly to perform anti-aliasing operations and help overcometoday's biggest problem in graphics chips: memory bandwidth.

Generally, the present invention provides method and apparatus for supporting anti-aliasing oversampling in a video graphics system that utilizes a custom memory for storage of the frame buffer. The custom memory includes a memory array that stores the frame buffer as well as a data path that performs at least a portion of the blending operations associated with pixel fragments generated by a graphics procesor. The fragments produced by a graphics procesor are oversampled fragments such that each fragment may include a plurality of samples. If the sample set for a particular pixel location can be compressed, the compressed sample set is stored within the frame buffer of the custom memory circuit. However, if such compression is not possible, pointer information is stored within the frame buffer on the custom memory, and a sample memory controller included on the graphics procesor maintains a complete sample set for the pixel location within a sample memory. When the sample memory controller maintains a complete sample set for a pixel location, the frame buffer stores a pointer corresponding to the location of the sample set.

The invention can be better understood when viewing the following image:
The figure illustrates a block diagram of a “graphics processing system” that supports oversampling anti-aliasing. The system includes a graphics processor (GPU), a sample memory (the standard memory on today's video cards) and a custom memory module (the embedded RAM). The graphics processor, the sample memory, and the custom memory may each be individual integrated circuits.

Embedded DRAM is expensive, because it’s very similar to microprocessors cache memory, so that is why the patent explains that in order to keep costs low, the amount of additional logic included on this custom memory may be minimized. Therefore, although some of the circuitry always found within the video graphics system has been moved onto this new custom memory invention, some functions still remain within the graphics processor in order to keep the production costs low for the custom memory.

So what does all this mumbo jumbo mean? It means we’ll get games running at 720p HDTV resolution, that is 1280x720, with full screen anti-aliasing and almost no impact on framerate. Imagine Project Gotham Racing 3 or those badass Unreal Engine 3-powered games running at some 60 FPS, with full screen anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering taken to the max!

It’s a hardcore gamer’s dream come true!
Notice this paragraph here "Embedded DRAM is expensive, because it’s very similar to microprocessors cache memory, so that is why the patent explains that in order to keep costs low, the amount of additional logic included on this custom memory may be minimized. Therefore, although some of the circuitry always found within the video graphics system has been moved onto this new custom memory invention, some functions still remain within the graphics processor in order to keep the production costs low for the custom memory."

If you can read correctly, their is only 10 MB of embedded Dram because it's very expensive, but the remaining work can be done on the graphic chip and in the sample memory as what is explained above, so the xbox 360 can in fact do full screen 4x AA at 720p like what they promised

[DJ]

And I know that Microsoft was not willing to spend the money to give the 360 at least one advantage over the PS3. Sony, on the other hand, went all out and spent a ridiculous amount of money creating superior hardware so that developers and gamers could benefit.

This is what developers have to do with current hardware:

Xbox 360- Chop up their frames, send each 'tile' through ED-RAM, get it processed, send that tile back from ED-RAM, paste each tile back in to system memory (eating up even more bandwidth), glue the tiles back into complete frames, then do post-processing effects. The bandwidth between ED-RAM and the Xenos GPU is only 32 GB/s, not 256 GB/s as some people have stated in the past. Even worse, it takes two tiles to make a 720p frame, and four tiles to make a 1080p frame (with 4xAA, the industry standard).

PS3- Render directly into VRAM. Yeah, you're done.
----------------------------- ---
Now let's look at the bandwidth that each GPU has to its respective memory pool:

Xbox 360: 10GB/s

PS3: 22GB/s
----------------------------- ---
What this means is that with the limited bandwidth of the 360 architecture, the ED-RAM has just as many burdens as benefits on system bandwidth. Ironically it was built to alleviate bandwidth problems, but since the guys at Microsoft are cheapskates and didn't want to cough up some extra money the system AND developers lose out. Your post keeps trying to make excuses about how expensive ED-RAM is and that we shouldn't expect a console manufacturer to do the best possible job. To make an exception is uncalled for.

[PS360PCROCKS]

oh and DJ the Xbox 360 will also do 8x anisotropic filtering at the same time with no performance hit...

[FeralPhoenix]

I won't argue with you about one thing: you are consistent in your statements....your statements are consistently WRONG....and please don't deny that in the past you once acknowledge that the 360's GPU was the better than the RSX. -Again DJ, you make things up to fit your version of the truth....just like when you said that M$ has a policy that won't allow game dev's to create games on more than 1 disk, remember that? -yeah I bet you forgot that too, I asked you for a link, but of course you conveniently never responded....but thats typical DJ, you twist things and "make up" your version of the TRUTH. -I understand DJ, you just like the attention no matter what kind of attention it may be, -thats SAD.

[MicroGamer]

Because they only want first party games to take full advantage of the resolutions. Now that the word is out that it is in there, developers will be doing some reverse engineering to gain full access to it and make games competitive with first party ones.

[deathtok]

I'm relieved that Sony was smart enough to put a scaler into the system. For a little while it was starting to look like some of the doubters were right.

Certainly only good can come from this. Why Sony has not allowed full access to the scaler could be very similar to Microsoft's reason in the beginning of the XBox 360. Most likely... software.

[Funky Town_TX]

It just did not do 1080p. One problem that I have with what M$ and Sony are doing is leaving out the Non-high speed internet gamer. Some ppl don't have access to high speed internet because of where they live. I do but I know ppl that don't. I just hope M$ and Sony add firmware updates via there websites to burn to cd or dvd for all gamers.

BTW the 360 never had a problem with upscaling to 1080i. I just hope Sony gets this fixed and don't leave it up to the dev to do. This would leave out lots of 1080i HDTV owners such as myself. I have a 720p TV that takes 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, but I like my older HDTv better. I want to know that no matter what PS3 game I get that I will be able to enjoy it on 1080i reguardless of what the developer does. Also, Gears of War looks great on my 52" 1080i TV and I looks even better on my friends 1080i 65" TV. Too bad I can't look foward to Motorsorm being in 1080i and the other non 1080i PS3 games that are out. My Direct-TV HD reciever puts out all resolution but 1080p (with is non standard right now) and I would hope that the PS3 (world most power PC and gaming console) would be capable of doing this.

[deathtok]

Sony has downloadable firmware updates on their website: http://www.us.playstation.c... -- As for leaving out the "non-high speed internet gamer" ... their is no such thing as a dial-up gamer anymore. Any gamers that are on dial-up have been left behind years ago because of lack of bandwidth. Very few games could allow for acceptable dial-up gaming on PS3 or XBox 360.

[Funky Town_TX]

I was not talking about gaming. I was talking about firmware. Nos M$ news to just add that crap to there web site.