Will Destiny 2 be the first case of console parity graphics imposed by Sony's marketing plans?

Bungie has made some controversy statements these days about Destiny 2 on consoles that affects directly on Project Scorpio.

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515d ago Replies(7)
mochachino515d ago

There's no reason Scorpio couldn't run at 1080 60FPS if xb1 and PS4 can do 1080p 30 FPS.

Maybe MS can release firmware update that increases performance to 60 FPS. Bungie wouldn't violate any deal with Sony if MS itself improved the framerate.

AngelicIceDiamond515d ago

Parity was never the problem earlier in the gen and even now. I remember games were 1080 30 or 60 on PS4 and 720 30 or 60 on X1. Devs used each consoles capabilities at the time and still are. We don't know if Scorpio can do 60 or not but if it can then it should be no different with devs utilizing the consoles abilities despite a marketing deal. A marketing deal should never hold back another console back that's unheard of and crazy.

Wallstreet37514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

Some of you guys make me laugh. You are so ignorant and fan boy blind. There's alot of reasons consoles cannot do higher fps in certain games and drum rolllll pleaseeeee it's due to weak %ss jaguar cpu. Doesn't matter if it's customized (most chips are to fit consoles needs). The slight cpu gain on scorpio versus pro is negligible and still a bottleneck. IF Destiny 2 is 30fps on pro it will be 30on scorpio because of GPU. It might be 4k native on scorpio and dynamic on pro with minor differences :)

As for parity lol run and try to throw shade on Sony lol when Microsoft was pushing that parity bs for years already lol. Most devs won't push for highest denominator on their own they like to take easy way out :)

maybelovehate514d ago

It isn't an actual jaguar chip, it is based on Jaguar for backwards compatibility but it is a new custom chip. We won't know how much better it actually is until we get some developers doing profiles. They also built a custom engine that helps offload cpu tasks to the gpu to take advantage of that monster bandwidth. At this point, it is all just talk though, neither you or I know what it is capable of yet.

BlakHavoc514d ago

Thank you! Was waiting for someone to say this

Gyarados514d ago

It IS a jaguar cpu and no amount calling it evolved is ever going to change that fact.

Wallstreet37514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

Yeah just like everyone said switch had a highly customized cpu lol just like PS pro has customized cpu, scorpio etc.... It's like some of you fanatics just ignore history and every other customized chip that has been done already. Customization doesn't suddenly transform a jaguar chip into this powerful chip. IT'S STILL A JAGUARRRRRR SAVE THAT FANBOY BS FOR PPL THAT DON'T KNOW BETTER. EVEN PROS CHIP WAS CUSTOMIZED. The chip is still weak.

bellyboy514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

Well said, CPU's in pro, and scorpio, are turd, scorpio's "customized" dont mean jack, its slightly faster but its still a jaguar cpu with severe limitations, they wont talk about it until E3, simply because Microsoft is driving home "most powerful console", and it wont run D2 in 4k 60, so it will be a negative right off the bat. CPU, the dev has said IS the bottle neck, your 100% right.

First party Scorpio games, that's different, heavily optimized for the scorpio, most likely 1st party games will hit 4k 60, but that wont relate to multi platform, different engines, it wont be as optimized as this gen has shown us already.

Hedstrom514d ago

Stop speaking sense, it doesnt fit on N4G ;)

DAEMONIFEAR514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

Luke Smith when stating PS4Pro can't do 60fps also stated in the same sentence that they aren't talking about Scorpio but they're pushing each platform to their capable max! If PC is doing 4k60 with the system requirements we've seen then Scorpio is very much capable to run D2 4k60 using the exact same PC assets

And people need to stop talking like you know what the Scorpio cpu is no where does it even mention "jaguar" except for Rich/DF saying that he "thinks" it's a beefed up custom cpu based on the jaguar cores! But just know a jaguar cpu could never be clocked at 2.3ghz and not fry to tell us about it!

The Scorpio's cpu is fully redesigned using more of the power of a polaris chip to reach those clocks and bus speeds etc..whilst using the jaguar cores according to DF so straight up it's not the same cpu in scorpio as x1/ps4/ps4pro the ps4pro is exactly the same cpu as the base ps4 but with nothing more then a overclock which is the absolute max for the jaguar in ps4/ps4pro it's not customized or anything! So stop trying to compare the cpu in scorpio with any of the previous x1 or ps4

Also if Doom has brbeen stated to ne running full 4k60 with high/ultra on scorpio then you netter believe what Scorpio is said to be because that game is taxing as hell to achieve 4k60 high/ultra

So many people down playing scorpio to feel better about their pc/ps4pro

Watch E3 then let's talk about it! ;)

343_Guilty_Spark514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

The Forza 6 Scorpio demo was running at Ulra+ settings at 4k/60 with headroom left over on that crap CPU.

You need an i7 6700 (4 Ghz) or better to run the same game on PC.

Why don't you stop lying? You sound like Sean Spicer.

Wallstreet37514d ago

Wow Forza a racer lol was running at 4k 60fps lol yeah that means Destiny 2 will also. Do you guys %uking hear yourself sometimes lol Reality check GT back in the days was 1080p fluctuated 60fps on ps3 with dynamic weather and other things so what's your point? Future reference, using closed circuit racers or fighters doesn't help your cause. There was a reason Forzaaaaaaa 6 was used as scorpio showcase lol it isn't a graphical powerhouse :)

Ima laugh when the cpu turns out to be a bottle neck like the informed know. Stop being sheep man. And I'm getting a scorpio and feel free to add me on live, just pm me.

xsta1ker514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

yes you are correct wallstreet and the ps4pro has the 2nd weakest jaguar cpu with a slight boost in clock
DF was stund @ all the customization dun to the cpu over 60 to reduce bottle necks and thats just on cpu.
you also have dx12 directly hard coded into the gpu command processers witch can reduce up to 50% cpu
overhead. now I'm not saying scorpios cpu is the end all be all of cpu's I'm no tech... but i can see and understand when a well respected company like DF is @ a lost for words ms has dun a great job.

will all know how good a job ms has pulled off @ e3✌

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 514d ago
mmj514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

There is a perfectly logical reason, CPU BOTTLENECK.

The vast majority of Xbox Scorpio's hardware improvement is with the GPU, it'll allow them to ramp up resolution and graphic details but you'll still have roughly the same terrible CPU rendering AI and physics and all of the other operations the CPU is responsible for.

zivtheawesome514d ago

yea i try to explain yesterday to some people that claimed that because BF1 could run at 60fps on the pro then this game could do native 4k 60 on scorpio in D2 without realizing that these are 2 DIFFERENT games with DIFFERENT ENGINE that cause different performence results.

maybelovehate514d ago

Except we have no idea if the CPU will be a bottleneck. It is not a Jaguar chip, it is only based on Jaguar for BC. It is a custom chip with a specialized component to help offload cpu tasks to the gpu.

ImGumbyDammit514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

Wrong. How many times do people have to say this. I am too lazy to repeat what I wrote on another blog post so I am just going to cut-and-paste most of that previous post. Now take notice of what is written below. These are not my words but, directly from DF, the only people that have seen in action and are able to actually talk about the Scorpio with any knowledge. All this talk about this is just Jaguar and the same as the PS4 Pro is nonsense. It is not a stock chipset and definitely not customized the same way as the PS4 Pro chipset. If one based their argument on the generic Jaguar chipset answer than even the base PS4 would not be able to run the games it does. Please, notice what they say about they Scorpio design structure of the CPU/GPU (APU). 1/2 work load or more taken away from the CPU. Rendering calls that usually 100's (1,000 )of calls whittled down to a dozen or less on the CPU side.

Each systems (PS4 Pro & Scorpio) Jaguar based APU is highly customized. Scorpio took a different route that alleviates the CPU from a lot of the work it would normally do. Scorpio has baked in DirectX 12 into the Project Scorpio's GPU's command processor to significantly reduce instruction sets and thus dramatically improve the instruction command processing sent by the highly customized 2.73GHz Jaguar evolved CPU. Essentially Project Scorpio's direct hardware-based DX12 integration should substantially improve game-to-GPU communication and actively reduce CPU overhead. This streamlined efficiency is half of the magic that makes Scorpio tick, and sees the console's components in a kind of uniform synergy. This is one of they reasons the could show a un-optimized Forza 6 running at 4K with full fidelity but just barely using 66% of CPU while the same game using almost 100% of the CPU on the game using an i7. Meanwhile the game ran fluidly on the Scorpio at 60fps but game dropped frames on a PC using NVidia 1070 with the same settings. As for Jaguar sure if this were an Excel spreadsheet or compiling a program sure the i5 or i7 would definitely beat this chipset completing those tasks. But, it isn't that standard chipset . The deign is highly customized for one purpose rendering games. It is customized much more than the Pro to alleviate these CPU bottlenecks associated with the processing and rendering associated with games.

Quotes from DF article:
Richard Leadbetter from DF says that Project Scorpio's DirectX 12 hardware implementation should cut CPU workloads by half on DirectX 12 games

"Roll call instructions on the CPU that would typically require thousands of instructions are now reduced to just 11,"

"State changes that are also heavy on CPU are now cut down to just 9." According to Leadbetter Microsoft noted that this custom hardware automation should cut CPU workload by half on titles built on DirectX 12 renderers."

Ausbo514d ago

Read the piece on scorpio and how they have offloaded CPU processes into the GPU.

zivtheawesome514d ago

@ImGumbyDammit your argument is flawed from it's base: your claim is that the DX12 integration reduces CPU load significantly therefore it could work and while that you ain't wrong about that fact there are two HUGE problem with your argument. the big problem is that as of now almost all games do not support DX12 and it's benefits. DF already confirmed that DX11 won't recieve the benefits of hardcoding DX12 to the cpu therefore the supposed 50% efficiency boost. the second problem is that even if D2 supports DX12 (which is unlikely), the X1 already had most of the DX12 hardcoding (confirmed by DF) so the efficiency boost may be much lower than supposed 50%.

xsta1ker514d ago

ya my 2 ford mustags gt's are the same also with the same 302 engine but my stock stang only has 300 hp
but the other has performance parts and has 500+hp but ya same terribel engine.

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andrewsquall514d ago

Who said Xbone can do Destiny 2 at 1080p 30fps?

OpenGL514d ago

The fact that regular Forza 6 runs at 1080p / 60fps on the launch Xbone should be a sign that it's not a particularly demanding game. Most multiplatform titles do 900p / 30fps (with drops) on the Xbox One.

Princess_Pilfer514d ago

Yeah, there is. Bungie outright stated that the CPU is the bottleneck on the PS4 pro. The Scorpio CPU is supposed to be better, it's still a Jaguar as far as we know, and Jaguars are still garbage CPUs, so it's entirely possible they can't do 60 FPS at any resolution, regardless of GPU.

rainslacker513d ago (Edited 513d ago )

1080/60 may be possible if we assume that the physics engine isn't a problem. I don't think Bungie is going to offer that choice though since they seem to want frame rate parity between the different consoles within at least the PS brand. I don't know if they'll feel the same with the Xbox brand though. It may be possible to interpolate frames to achieve 60fps though, but that's kind of tricky in an online shooter.

I'm not even sure why it even matters. Destiny 1 has been around a good long while. I've never seen people complaining about the 30fps to such a degree that I think it was that big of an issue. I think all this 60/30 discussion is such a niche issue within the community, and that the vast majority don't really care that much.

I'm fine for people asking for it, but up above, there are some people going to great lengths to act like their life is ruined by this. Some of those same people never had anything good to say about destiny in the first place, or grew tired of it I'm not sure what they're hoping for from D2.

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Majin-vegeta515d ago

This dumb and the author should feel dumb for writing this crap.If it has parity it's cuz Biggie doesn't want to alienate the OG X1 owners(which would most likely ensue a shizznitstorm against M$ from those early X1 adopters)Having to play against people who have a higher framerste giving them a bigger advantage same thing with PS4/PS4PRO.

Liqu1d515d ago

Lots of desperate Xbox fan blogs spreading nonsense have been getting submitted lately. The Scalebound IP extension was another one. Filled with false rumours and ridiculous speculation. You have Ryan McAffrey and Jez Corden shaking their MS branded pom poms in this article, the latter even admits that he doesn't know if D2 can run at 60fps on Scorpio but that doesn't stop him saying "Scorpio would easily run D2 at 60fps".

And saying that D2 can run a 4k 60fps because Forza can run at 4k 60fps is ridiculous. They are completely different games with different engines, Forza is a 1st party game with an engine highly optimised for Xbox. Looks like "console parity" will be the excuse a few people use if Scorpio doesn't live up to some peoples ridiculous expectations.

There's no evidence to suggest D2 on Scorpio will be held back, just excuses from desperate individuals. It will absolutely run at a higher resolution than the PS4 Pro.

freshslicepizza515d ago

Didn't they already say it will be native 4K on the PS4 pro? Plus the game doesn't have to be 4K 60fps, they could offer 1080p or checkerboard renedring on Scorpio and 60fps. If Scorpio doesn't have any real advantage performance wise it has Sony wanting parity all over it!

Liqu1d515d ago (Edited 515d ago )

They just said 4K, doubt it'll be native 4K on the Pro.

Aenea515d ago



Well, there we have it folks! The Xbox fanboy defence groundwork has been laid!

If Scorpio isn't showing any real advantage, the only possible reason is that Sony is paying of developers! It has nothing whatsoever to do with the machine itself, nope, devs have been paid off, clear as day! /s

Craziness of some people around here is hilarious!

DigitalRaptor514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

I know moldbread wants to sit on his perch and look impartial, but his comments have become so desperately, unfoundedly anti-Sony for somebody that claims not to be a fanboy. And it's only going to get worse with each and every game that developers don't decide they want to support well enough on Scorpio 😁

I mean this is so incredibly desperate that it's reaching conspiracy levels which is a mindset reserved for exclusively for Xbox fanboys. He wants Scorpio to destroy PS4 Pro so badly so he can continue his hatespeak and troll nonsense on PS4 articles for the next 12-24 months once the hardware is out, but if developers don't let that happen, it's all Sony's fault... as usual and he has to pull more nonsense out of his ass to compensate.

butchertroll514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

Well said, Liqu1d

That Jez's tweet, man! Is he fu***** insane?



No they never stated ps4pro running d2 at native 4k30 but we all know it won't be anything more then "dynamic"/cb 4k 4.2tf can't just magically do [email protected] when Luke Smith said himself the cpu in the pro just can't run their game any higher then 30fps that would certainly also include the gpu not being able to run their game native 4k

He also mentioned that they're pushing each version to their respectable max and to me if the pc is 4k60 so will scorpio seeing as MS stated they don't have a fps parity to keep frames down like they do with ps4 Sony dont want to have 30fps on base console versions and 60fps on the pro with looking at it in a different way seeing as not everyone runs 4k60 on pc most [email protected] so do we see ppl even mentioning this with pc?? No!!

PC has all kinds of ppl running games different res/fps and the latter isn't giving anyone any advantage over said versions seeing as xbox is getting full mouse/keyboard support also which wouldn't that also create advantages over controller?

ziggurcat514d ago

"If Scorpio doesn't have any real advantage performance wise it has Sony wanting parity all over it!"

No, moldy, it doesn't. Do you have any evidence to support this outlandish claim?

DigitalRaptor513d ago (Edited 513d ago )

Hey everybody.

Observe Moldybread, who has run away with his tail between his legs and ignored almost all kind of responses to him on this topic because we've absolutely destroyed his arguments, and this guy who has exposed his hypocrisy and agenda for all to see. His latest tactic is ignoring my comments to not draw attention to them.

Look at the remains of all the most recent articles where he's tried to troll on Sony and PS4 Pro for all the evidence you need that this guy is regularly full of s***. You see, if his arguments were sound, he would be able to counter, but all we get from him is hypocritical, fanboy-ridden verbal diarrhea under the guise of somebody who cares to right the wrongs of the console wars, despite contributing directly to them. Consistent wishful thinking from somebody with years of pent up frustration about MS being criticised by Sony fans, and he's trying to exact revenge by making up falsities, putting words in mouths and he's getting sloppy about covering up his double standards. Keep your eyes open as more about Scorpio comes to light and his conspiracy theories get wilder.

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Silly gameAr515d ago (Edited 515d ago )

I think they're trying to pretend that the X1 doesn't exist anymore. The Scorpio is a total redo to them, but the X1 will still have an effect on Scorpio. Blaming it on Playstation is just to make the Scorpio look better.

slate91514d ago

So MS wants to pretend that the X1 doesn't exist anymore because they are releasing a mid-gen console. But Sony isn't pretending...even though they released a mid-gen console. Got it.

Nitrowolf2514d ago


He was replying to Liqu1d comment concerning these xbox blog posts. NOT MICROSOFT THEMSELVES

slate91514d ago

the only "shizznitstorm" that would come would be from those who don't even own an OG X1 and those who will never own one.

UCForce514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

That's you, buddy. Nobody else is here to blame. More importantly, third party games can't never hit 4K/60fps on console.

stuna1515d ago

What parity! If this game coming out on the original Xbox 1 and the original PS4 it's obvious neither one will be capable of 4K resolution! But more importantly neither will deliver 60 fps! This is where the issue lies.

Sony already went on record to say outside of resolution frame rates will remain the same across both PS4 consoles! This is to promote the fact that PS4 Pro is a mid-gen alteration console and what the PS4 Pro does will not exclude the original PS4 or now the PS4 slim from doing outside the bump in resolution and power. But when it comes to multiplayer frame rates they would remain consistent with each other across the board so as not to fracture or impose a barrier between the two consoles.

Microsoft would be in a worse situation if they didn't go along with that same action, simply because of the big difference between the base model Xbox 1 and Scorpio. To do otherwise would prove that Scorpio is a next gen console as well as create a barrier between all their consoles. So Microsoft has no choice in imposing parity on themselves!? Unless they don't mind performing yet another 180 in the process!?

To be honest I believe Microsoft will in fact do just that! They will go for the higher resolutions and frame rates and leave the Xbox 1, Xbox S owners too their own devices! And this is exactly why so many people don't like Microsoft as a company! Looking at things of Microsoft actually giving Scorpio the ability to do VR, 4K resolution, and 60 fps in fact means that Scorpio will actually have its own games! The truth is in the details.

Even though all games will be playable on Scorpio, just reverse the context! Scorpio games won't in fact be playable on the the other systems! VR won't, 4K won't, but most importantly 60 fps one's won't! Just to explain it better Scorpio is the barrie!

Right now Microsoft are making it where previous gen games are playable on Scorpio, but outside of Scorpio those games remain the same. Likewise Newer games on Scorpio running at their fullest potential will not retain those attributes when being played on Xbox 1 and Xbox S. Those game won't be VR compatible, won't be Native 4K, but most importantly won't maintain 60 fps. This is the hidden clause everyone seems to overlook or not see at all

In retrospect sure PS4 Pro is more powerful can attain 4K resolutions, that is where the differences end in comparison to PS4 slim. Both do VR, both have HDR, and both remain consistent with frame rates across both models.

Let everyone tell you here, frame rates are more important than resolutions!?

Teflon02514d ago

Not entirely true. Some games run higher framerates on ps4 pro. Tomb raider and FFXV are examples

Nitrowolf2514d ago

I think he forgot to add "multiplayer", which is true, even if the pro has a more stable FPS, if the OG ps4 is aiming for 30fps multiplayer, so will the pro

stuna1514d ago

If you read my comment I did say multiplayer. With single player games it's not a big deal! But looking at competitive multiplayer it'll break the experience because of differences in frame rates.

freshslicepizza514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

"And this is exactly why so many people don't like Microsoft as a company!"

What a terrible company who is using its own resources to develop emulators to get Xbox 360 games to run on the Xbox One.

What a terrible company to allow its users to be mature enough to decide if EA Access offers value or not.

What a terrible company to offer various ways to play their games, whether it be a modest Xbox One console, or the most powerful Xbox Scorpio, or the PC platform.

What a terrible company who goes after timed exclusivity while its main competitor wants to go after full rights and own IP's to hinder access.

What a terrible company who is adopting VR and will allow other VR devices to be played through Windows PC platforms when its main competitor wont even allow its VR device to be used on the PC but will sell Playstation Now on it.

What a terrible company to allow developers freedom to use the extra power of Scorpio on how they want while its competitor has parity clauses to make sure its lower tiered hardware doesn't get a worse experience online. Even though lag, different controllers and other things can have a greater impact.

What a terrible company who has an open invitation to allow crossplay but when put to the task now Sony is doing an about face when called upon and won't even respond to developers like Rocket League who already have found a way to do it.

What I find the most laughable is how console gamers used to say 30fps games are perfectly acceptable but now want to act like unlesss there is a parity clause in place for online that its now unfair. Meanwhile Sony thinks crossplay with the PC is fine, its users dont have a problem with that, but crossplay with Nintendo console or the Xbox is irrelevant?

We already have PC and PS4 crossplay, how do they block anyone on the PC with better hardware? We already have crossplay with Forza Horizon 3 on the PC with an unlocked frame rate and is locked to 30fps on the Xbox One, never heard one complaint before.

But I guess to you its far more beneficial to PS4 Pro owners to have parity put in place, and have games like Driveclub be dumbed down to accomodate the original PS4. Or how Sony is not even supporting supersampling on some of their games for 1080p gamers. Thanks for showing me how the PS4 Pro's value isn't what it could be.

JhoomBarabar514d ago

MS is a terrible company. You are right about that.

514d ago
stuna1514d ago

Obviously you didn't take the time to understand my statement!? If Scorpio is under the same umbrella as the Xbox 1 and Xbox S, why would there be differences that exclude the original Xbox 1 and Xbox S? VR, 60 fps 4K games are not inherently possible on the original Xbox 1 and Xbox S! But they will be on Scorpio. How does that promote them falling under 1 umbrella? It doesn't!

Microsoft will not allow Scorpio to be held back by Xbox 1 and Xbox S, no matter what they tell you. At E3 the truth will come out and it'll be exactly what I'm saying! Scorpio will aim for higher frame rates than what Xbox 1 and Xbox S are capable of, it will prevent those who own the previous systems from having a unified multiplayer and will create a barrier plain and simple. Especially when it comes to 1st party games.

That is exactly why things are as quiet as they are, because if the truth came out prior to E3, Microsoft would have another black eye. If the suits had no problem telling supporters to get a Xbox 360 if they didn't have access to internet for the Xbox 1, why is it so hard to believe Microsoft is incapable of pulling a stunt like this?

DigitalRaptor514d ago (Edited 514d ago )


These triggered rants that have Moldybread going completely off-topic to display his affections for Microsoft and hatred for Sony are hilarious and exposing to say the least. Nobody that cared so little about the console wars would get this distraught when somebody says something negative about his precious company, and nobody who didn't hate Sony this much would be so glaringly one-sided. The fake concern resurfaces in choice quotes such as "thanks for showing me how the PS4 Pro's value isn't what it could be", which coming from somebody who was trolling on Pro support before it was even released, and has never had any intention of buying a PS4 at all.

You're so used to doing this that you've even setup a baseless conspiracy theory all over this article that paints Sony as the bad guy, yet again. You prove with every passing day that you're the fanboy and absolute running joke we all say you are.

Also, look at how he went ahead and cherry-picked a line like that from the whole comment (something he's criticised others for doing) and reacted the way he did. It's reactionary anguish at its finest.


Your statements are true and proven facts but ppl will still deny it unfortunately seriously these same morons would still think the same even if Xbox was given to ppl for free

But to me I see so many more options and features on xbox with no console parity like ps4 with it's few options and useless features

Nitrowolf2514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

"have games like Driveclub be dumbed down to accomodate the original PS4. "

What??? Please explain this, Driveclub came out way before the Pro and the studio in charge shutdown before it to. Use a better example next time.

"Or how Sony is not even supporting supersampling on some of their games for 1080p gamers"

What was the last first party game to releaee by Sony for the PS4 Pro/PS3?
Horizon Zero Dawn supports supersampling, IIr that was the last 1st party exclusive this year so far. Nioh has a few options, but its not first party. Yakuza released way before Pro support, its a japaneae game afterall and also not 1st party.

Persona 5 isnt a 1st party game, but that was also in development way before the Pro (since the PS3) so thats understandable also.

Gt sport? Thats in Beta, maybe wait till the full game is out. I know it doesnt have super sampling in the beta, but ite also lacking a ton of content, i m3an its a beta......

Also what Parity Cluase are you talking about? The one between PS4 and Xbox Scorpio? So the ONE YOU MADE UP, unless you can link a source that says otherwise. Sony only mandates it for their consoles, they have made that clear when the clause was revealed.

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Mr-Dude514d ago (Edited 514d ago )

Very true..

And Moldy
You are just becoming annoying, a true fanboy. You lie, you point fingers, it's always others. Nobody here (besides the same as you) takes you serious.
Just leave, or mods ban him.

515d ago Replies(10)