Red Thread on Scorpio's Power Advantage over PS4 Pro: It's The Games That Matter

Red Thread's Ragnar Tørnquist chimed on the PS4 Pro vs Scorpio debate, stating that at the end of the day it's the games that matter rather than the hardware they run on.

[Nyxus]

Correct.

[Imp0ssibl3]

On the games, Microsoft has a loong way before catching up with Sony. You don't just build studios like Naughty Dog, Guerrilla, Sucker Punch etc. overnight.

[darthv72]

No, but you can buy them like Sony did. Those developers you listed... used to be independent and they were then signed (bought) by Sony to make games exclusively for the PS brand. So if MS opened their checkbook for studios like they did games then they could be in a better position.

There is an overhead to take into consideration though. If a studio doesnt produce a product up to a certain level of quality... that studio can be shut down as we have seen with lionhead and evolution and several others over the years.

[KaiPow]

Microsoft tried with taking Insomniac under their wing for SO, then they went right back to Sony.

[2pacalypsenow]

MS bought Rare who had a much better history of games than Naughty Dog and Guerrilla games did and look what they have done with it..

[NewMonday]

@darthv72

MS tried that with Rare and Lionhead, both studios ended up destroyed

creativity is not something you can throw money at.

[darthv72]

^You can if its the right amount of money. Buying a studio is only the first step. MS would then need to set them up with a sizeable budget to work with in order to produce results.

Creative minds find a way to make things work within budget or under.

[AspiringProGenji]

I believe it is a bit late for MS to buy studios, and building them would take a lot of time. You would think Remedy would join them, but they went to another publisher to make another game.

Let's not forget that MS acquired a handful of studios in 2014, and they closed them down last year. Only one remained and let them go. I believe it was PixelOpus.inc or something.

Sony was bold and adquired Bend, Guerrilla, Evolution, and some more last gen. The last one they adquired was Sucker Punch in 2011. These were studios Sony partnered and saw them grow in the PS1 and PS2 gen. They proved the PS3 was a capable machine and turned the tables. They shut the media up and that fat ass from Valve who talked ill about the Cell processor, and now every of those studios are pushing the PS brand foward and creating amazing games.

It is a beautiful thing to see imo, like a flower that is finally blooming after so long. It's like Sony looks up to the future more... I want them to adquire Housemaker studios too next (Resogun, alienation, Materfall developers). After all Shu senpai said they still have the appetite to adquire more studios some time ago.

[AspiringProGenji]

And also, when Sony bought them they weren't as relevant as today. Sony bought Naughty Dog after Jak and Daxter 1, and Guerrilla after Killzone 1. Sucker punch was bought after inFamous.

These studios only became bigger after they joined Sony, especially Naughty Dog. There's no telling that a studio that MS buys today will become as big overnight. It takes time to evolve under their wings too

[Kribwalker]

@aspiringgengi

Where are evolution studios and guerrillas cambridge now?
Bend was bought in 2000

And you can't tell me naughty dog wasn't well known before Sony bought them. They made Crash Bandicoot which was used as sonys mascott during the ps1 days and was a big franchise before Sony bought them

[NewMonday]

@darthv72

problem is MS don't have creative minds or respect creative people.

Microsoft is ruled by market research and focus testing, if the executives can't see it on the power-point chart it will be canceled or altered.

this is how creative people react after working with MS..

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[AspiringProGenji]

@kribwalker

What's your point?

Yes, those studios are dead, just like the ones MS Killed. But the best have remained and will remain: Polyphony, Naughty Dog, Sucker Punch, Guerrila, Bend, London, Xdev, Japan Studios, Media Molecule, and Sony Santa Monica.

Naughty Dog started to get big with Uncharted. Crash Bandicoot was indeed the start, but it was after they joined Sony when they reached full potential. Uncharted is where they got mass attention.

Thought Bend was adquire later, but ok. Thanks for correcting that

[_-EDMIX-_]

Absolutely agreed Microsoft has such a long way that I believe they're closing down to several Studios and cancellation of several games has might of already confirmed they really can't do much this generation other than begin building more Studios and resetting for the Next Generation.

It may already be too late to even go against happening right now this is not just something out of the blue, Sony has been planning for this type of onslaught since before this generation even started all anyone has to do is look back at specific purchases they made last generation

this isn't Checkers this is chess.

@darth- i don't disagree with you in fact that's kind of what they need to do either buy Studios or build them up from the ground up but I'd end of the day if there were ever going to do such a thing to plan for this generation do actually would have did it before even started, so you have to question what exactly was going on at Microsoft before this generation started that made them decide they want even going to do that in the first place? So its not even that Microsoft has a problem it's that Microsoft when into this generation not even believing they needed them in the first place how to we know that hasn't changed? For all we know this company is content to not even purchase new Studios or development seems to actually fix the situation because they don't really even see it as a huge problem in fact I don't even think Microsoft has ever officially addressed this situation.

Sony has no problem freely shutting down specific Studios that don't perform only because clearly they have a lot in the first place

Microsoft started the generation with very little Studios so the few that they closed down only further hurts them

there is no Fable 4 because of that decision.

I've said this numerous times Microsoft for a fact has more money so if they have more money is there a reason why we're still talking about this and this company has yet to even take any action to solve this problem? I don't really believe spending billions of dollars to purchase Minecraft is something the hardcore Community cares about as it sounds like that was simply to further push that brand from Microsoft as a whole as opposed to anything regarding their game development Studios

[darthv72]

@Aspiring... sorry if off topic but do you have a spelling problem by chance? The word is "acquiring" not "adquiring". It was bugging me seeing you use it that way.

Oh @newmonday, I totally get what you are saying bro. That's why I initially said "if" they did, not that they are doing that. The problem with MS's gaming division is it is not as free to roam as Sony's gaming division. Both still have a higher power to answer to but Sony has much more flexibility with how they can pursue endeavors. MS... not so much.

The heads of MS (board of directors) arent as interested in acquiring studios as it means more risk of a loss in overhead as opposed to simply losing out on a game investment. Which is easier to accept? Losing several million on a game or losing several hundreds of millions on a studio???

The flip side is that investment (game or studio) could actually pay off if MS would just take the risk one way or the other. And then again it might not.

[_-EDMIX-_]

@new-absolutely agreed it means nothing to purchase new Studios or build them from the ground up if Microsoft is just going to keep forcing them to create specific Concepts to death

@darth- you cannot keep forcing Studios to only create specific Concepts to do your bidding. Any Studio that is limited or forced to do the same thing over and over again is clearly going to show signs of fatigue it is not necessarily going to care about the actual product they're creating in the first place.

Trust me as an artist I could tell you right now that if you're forced to do something you care very little about the thing you're being forced to do in comparison to something that you've created from the ground up with passion and intent.

The answer is not trying to force those Studios to do something it's simply find a concept that your company is lacking and then find a studio that is already doing that concept and simply allow them to create.

The people that make games know more about making games then the Publisher's trying to fill in a gap in their lineup

Sony allowed Insomniac Games to make a first person shooter from a team that was making Platformers before they allowed Gorilla Games a team that was making first person shooters to make a open world RPG because they had a passion for it and clearly it just gave them a multi-million system seller.

I don't disagree that Microsoft clearly needs to hire teams for what their core interest is in regards to specific Concepts but they also need to respect what those teams are saying when they're through with a concept or idea and have something brand-new because you never know when that brand new concept could possibly be a game of the year multi-million System Solar that changes the landscape of Gaming.

They need to stop purchasing teams and enslaving them away for one particular concept, they literally bought lion head games and basically forced them to do Fable until they inevitably close them down....

It goes to show what many of us theorized that Microsoft only uses teams for one particular concept and then throws them away when the brand has been overused and milked to death

Bungie left Microsoft to make Destiny in Microsoft had 343 making Halo for god sakes they named a team from a character from Gears of War to milk another intellectual property to death for god sakes let those damn teams make new intellectual properties

It's starting to sound like the day Microsoft decides they don't want to make Halo or gears anymore might simply be the day that get rid of both of those teams because there's not even a lot of evidence that shows that if Microsoft doesn't want to release a specific property that they simply have the team do something new we've seen four fact several times they just closed down the team they only want them for one thing they don't care about keeping them for something creative

[darthv72]

@edmix... "you cannot keep forcing Studios to only create specific Concepts to do your bidding. Any Studio that is limited or forced to do the same thing over and over again is clearly going to show signs of fatigue it is not necessarily going to care about the actual product they're creating in the first place."

I will just say this. Guerrilla was pretty much ONLY making killzone since sony bought them and Horizon is their newest entry that breaks that trend. PD seems to be ONLY making gran turismo games and (personally) I'd LOVE for them to break that trend and make a new Omega Boost or even motorcycle racer like they did Tourist Trophy. Now perhaps those studios arent "forced" into making the same thing over and over but I'm just using them as examples of what you said should not happen for a studio to grow.

As for Bungie... it sure is funny how they didnt want to make halo games only to go to Activision with a halo-esq game. Oh the irony.

[Death]

Sony has shut down quite a few first party studios and terminated relations with second party developers. Since the PS4 release, first party has been relatively quiet with most exclusives coming from third party studios. Last gen the practice of paid exclusives and paid exclusive content was referred to as money hatting and frowned upon by gamers. Funny how things change.

[Godmars290]

Really don't get this insistence on what Sony's done, saying that both companies are effectively the same, when MS have clearly done less.

[blitz0623]

Uhm no. Sony only signed and bought them after they made critically acclaimed games for the Playstation brand. It's Microsoft who buys exclusives. How can let they Bungie get away from them?

[AspiringProGenji]

@Death

Lol okay! It is Just like the the PS3 in the beggining; it also started low. 1St party devs just started to pick up

Also what are those 2nd party relations Sony ended? From soft made Bloodborne for them, Insomniac is back home with Spiderman after whatever happened with Sunset Overdrive. Quantic Drems is still making games for them. So again, what are those?

And those deals are nothing Like Microsoft's. Sony actually partners with long time 2nd party devs to produce games for PlayStaion, while MS used to go with 3rd party devs to secure timed exclusives and even exclusives. Guess xbox fanboys won't stop with "Buh Microsoft" comments for anything

[freshslicepizza]

Well there is probably about 800 games that are on both consoles, now they will be better on Scorpio. Plus about 200 more that aren't on the PS4 and over 350 Xbox 360 games that will be the definitive versions on Scorpio.

[rainslacker]

Even if they can't build them internally, they can still fund them through 2nd party. Nothing wrong with that.

All it would take to catch up with Sony is for MS to start taking risk, and bringing interesting games on a consistent basis.

[mcstorm]

The thing is Microsoft don't need to bring as many games out as Sony they just need a few more ips to help out it in new markets. For me I got the Xbox one over the PS4 when it came out because DC was put back and I'm a racing fan. Now we are 3 years in I've still not picked up a PS4 as it dose not offer any must own racing games but my mix of the wiiu and Xbox one /now switch/Xbox fits my gaming better. It's each to there own but ms do need to look at having more ips and also spread them out over the year not all at Xmas. I've found my self with a big backlog of games due to this happening

[Godmars290]

"All it would take to catch up with Sony is for MS to start taking risk, and bringing interesting games on a consistent basis."

Which they've never done.

They may have said words to such effect, made presentation with that message, but if they haven't fallen short they've reversed themselves. And how are they going to start taking risks now when Phil has openly stated that they're focus is on service gaming? That only sounds exceedingly narrow to me.

[morganfell]

"No, but you can buy them like Sony did."

No you cannot and this is one of the most shallow and erred statements on the matter I have ever seen.

"You can if its the right amount of money."

This is called digging the hole deeper. It is about vision and freedom. An atmosphere that fosters imagination rather than assembly line productivity.

This is the sort of belief that led to the utter destruction of Rare. The idea that you can pay your way to victory is a joke and the errand of fools. People that think the essence of a studio is brick and mortar, that real estate constitutes if not the whole sum then at least the greater part of the pedigree of creativity will forever ruin great developers. Such approaches think the paintbrush is the source of great art. These buy your way to greatness personages will repeat ad nauseum their error and fail to see it is they who are wreaking havoc on originality, all to the dismay of insightful gamers everywhere.

[Letthewookiewin]

People don't even care about Xbox now.

[Ceaser9857361]

darthv

"No, but you can buy them like Sony did. Those developers you listed... used to be independent and they were then signed (bought) by Sony to make games exclusively for the PS brand.

What are you even talking about?? Do you know when these studios mentioned above was bought by Sony.. ?? None of those games like UC, INFAMOUS, KILLZONE didnt exist. Sony bought them and invested on them.... You speak like those devs made a name for themselves and seeing that Sony bought them... bleh!!

"So if MS opened their checkbook for studios like they did games then they could be in a better position. ""

Yes! but MS wont.. MS dont follow Xbox rules.. Xbox needs to follow what MS says.. and hence! Xbox lacks third party marketing support.. Less Exclusive, NO new IPs.. Lets face it all of these requires truck load of Money .. Sony invests on PS since it gives them millions in return. (Do check out Sony's Profit this time) Xbox doesn't do that to MS..

[S2Killinit]

You cant just buy them when you dont have the structure to support them. Otherwise the arab soccer league should be as good as Europe's. But yes, MS can buy individual games just fine.

(Nothing against arab soccer league, im just making a point)

[BIGBOSS08]

It's microsoft who are the problem. I'm sure the coalition, 343, rare are more than capable of creating great games but it's microsoft who suck all the creativity out of them. Microsoft have always been the problem. They could have studios like naughty dog and rockstar with them and within 2 years those companies would be as good as dead thanks to microsoft sucking the life out of them. To put it simply, microsoft are and have always been an extremely shitty company with a lot of money.

[Sharky231]

@darthv72

Your right Sony did buy them! I'm pretty sure they didn't come out of the gate with uncharted and the last of us! Besides I don't see Microsoft giving as much creative control as Sony. They understand what it means to nurture a studio. Microsoft doesn't understand that yet!

[candystop]

But MS did allow Bungie to make other games. I still remember that zombie game which i guess didnt turn out well. Also lion head made more than just Fable and the still talented Rare has made many games already. All this talk is nothing more than spin to take eyes off Scorpio and the new game push MS is about to start going after. All of this stuff written by you guys just to keep hating. Personally i can't wait for e3 to see what direction MS is going clearly.

[Goldby]

@moldy

Superior games like Phantom Dust Re-release. That is an up scaled re release of an Xbox game that have micro transaction for people who don't want to grind.

Microsoft is full on embracing the idea of paying for shit we normally unlock. How is that example in anyway a positive thing for gaming?

[krypt1983]

Correct all it has to do is run the multi plats at 4k60fps and it looks like it will do that, multi plats are 90% of game sales on sony and microsoft exclusives don't matter like you think they do, do some exclusive games sell consoles yes i will give you that but the numbers so that percentage is only 12%. Scropio will record gameplay, broadcast and play games at 4k60fps thats enough alone not mentioning the superior network controller and apps like ps1 nes snes emulators free movies hd man the list goes on.

[DashArrivals]

SMH. The vast majority don't give a sh*t. You'll see this in time. Just an example off the top of my head is that Persona 5 was the number one selling game on PS4 for all of April digitally.
As long as the casual fan sees that COD is available for both consoles they're fine.
Another example, I saw a casual comment on facebook when Horizon Zero Dawn came out and it was by some girl and she goes "Why can't I buy this on Xbox One?" - that gamer will never enter our bubble here...
As long as the "multiplats" appear on both consoles.... PS4 will ALWAYS DOMINATE. I mean there's already over 60 million PS4 in the wild.
Exclusives matter. It's blatantly obvious.

[mozzie]

it will record at 4K/60fps WITH HDR meta data, son.

[TheTony316]

Most people (casuals) don't care about resolution and superior multiplats. They'll just buy the cheapest COD machine.

[snoopgg]

The delusional about all those other things you just listed is absurd. Exclusives matter more then the controller and differences in network, backwards compatibility. Microsoft has tried this all before and failed. Its about the games.

[Allsystemgamer]

This thing isn't capable of 4k60 on MOST multiplats.

If a GTX 1080 isn't doing it the Scorpio won't either unless they severely sacrifice graphical fidelity.

[Hardiman]

Also I like the variety of games. It's May and PS4 owners have had quite a selection in just the first few months of 2017 that range from Gravity Rush 2 to Horizon Zero Dawn onto games like What Remains of Edith Finch. I have every exclusive that's released this year and boy there's something for everyone. That's why I it's so easy for me to choose Sony.

[trooper_]

Mhm.

I always said it's about the games. Power is nothing with ought impressive games to go with it.

[DLConspiracy]

It sure is hard to keep up with all the goal post moving. Power isn't important anymore. Even though Sony essentially patented the phrase "Power and Graphics 1080p!"

I love my ps4 but I only use the system for exclusives and that's it. Everything else I buy on my Xbox or PC.

[Nyxus]

I never said power was more important than games though.

[DLConspiracy]

@Nyx

Comparing the 2 is unimportant. So it doesn't matter what people have said. The only reason to argue that point is fanboyism. That's the truth. Cause real gamers. Don't give a crap about stupid stuff like that. They play ANYWHERE they can.

[Neonridr]

True, but it doesn't hurt being able to play the multiplat titles at their best. Obviously exclusives matter greatly, as it is usually what draws a gamer to said platform, but 3rd party games still sell a TON on these machines, so they still do play a factor.

[Nyxus]

That is true, but I don't think it will make much of a difference this late into the console's life cycle. Also, for the general masses other factors are more important, such as price and what their friends play on. Scorpio is a product for a select group of gamers, and Microsoft knows that.

[MasterCornholio]

"Scorpio is a product for a select group of gamers, and Microsoft knows that."

Microsoft said they don't expect the Scorpio to outsell the Xbox One S as it clearly isn't a product that will be marketed and priced towards your average casual gamers. Those people will be looking at the Xbox One S and PS4 Slim as their future purchase.

I really wish that we core gamers outnumber those people by a vast amount but sadly that isn't the case. They actually outnumber us by a huge amount and many of those people only buy a system to play one or two franchises which is sad to see.

[Genuine-User]

Well said.

[Tussin187]

Good point but 4k is not even close to being mainstream so most people won't even bother and will still go with the cheaper option. Sony still has the upper hand and the most powerful console with the cheaper option. That will not change.

One thing I want to see is Crackdown running on an X1 at E3. MS touted the cloud for X1 and I want to see it running on the original system which has the largest user base. You can show the difference on the Scorpio but it 5 times as powerful so they can say it's running on the cloud but how would we really know?

[Bobafret]

Virtually everyone I know owns a 4k tv.

[kstuffs]

No worries. XB1 will automatically super-sample all 4K games to 1080p on 1080p TV. This is all automatic so game developers don't have to do the hard work.

[Aenea]

@bobafret

Yeah, virtually all my friends live in mansions, in reality tho they live in small homes with HDTV's...... 😂

-------
@kstuffs

It's funny how MS is able to get people excited for things like this and making it sound like they are the only one's doing it!

Fun fact: when a game outputs a higher resolution than the user's TV supports on PS4 or PS4 Pro it will also automatically be downscaled to the user's TV resolution.

(as an FYI in case you don't know: supersampling is nothing more than downscaling a higher resolution to a lower one when the eventual output resolution is the native resolution of the TV)

[kstuffs]

@Aenea

What you said is false. The PS4 Pro will output 4K games as 1080p to a 1080p TV *without* supersampling. The PS4 Pro takes a game that can run say native 2160p and render it at 1080p instead when connected to a 1080p TV. It literally render directly to 1080p instead of render at native 2160p then downsample to 1080p then output to TV. There is no downsampling done at all at the system level. The game developer has to INTENTIONALLY add supersampling into the game and the gamer may need to choose it.

MS made it all automatic. A 4K game can render at 4K and all the bang and the operating system will supersample it to 1080p and output as 1080p. Oh the sweet irony of calling someone wrong.

Check out these complaints here:
(PS4 Pro) http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
(Scorpio) http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
(Scorpio) http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

[Aenea]

@kstuffs

No, you're wrong about that!

You can link to users' complaints all you want with games DELIBERATELY doing something else but it doesn't change the fact that the SDK of the PS4 AUTOMATICALLY downscales/upscales to the correct output resolution depending on the connected TV! The SDK documentation that got leaked even says that developers CAN choose to just use ONE framebuffer size on the Pro and the SDK will make sure it is outputted correctly depending on the TV. The document also mentioned that the then current SDK (3.50) didn't support it automatically and that they had to do it in engine until the new SDK would come out (FYI: SDK version numbers are the same as the PS4's firmware version numbers).

That some games opt for not using this is up to the dev! This CAN also happen on Scorpio. The Scorpio WILL not override what a dev wants to do. If the dev EXPLICITLY renders the game in 1080p when connected to an HDTV then Scorpio can not automatically downsample it from an non-existent higher framebuffer.

Don't believe all the stupid PR stuff MS is spouting! Both consoles can do this automatically but the dev does need to allow it, it's not that hard to grasp...

Look here: http://download.aeneagames....

Sweet irony huh? Never use those types of wording when you don't have a clue what you're talking about!

[KwietStorm_BLM]

True. Also doesn't hurt to have a 2:1 sales lead and mindshare for the market. The casual gamer doesn't know the Pro and Scorpio are the best of the best. They're just gonna buy what everyone else has. Round and round we go.

[Bigpappy]

I don't expect a bunch of exclusives from M$ this E3. But I do expect this talk of "Xbox has no games" to be overshadowed by "Sony is going to release PS5 at given date (**/**/****).

Scorpio will be a hit! No doubt about that.

[tyasia0]

2018

Sony is going to talk about the most powerful console at E3 this year Scorpio's time as 'the most powerful console" is going to be less than a year.

[Aenea]

Can you explain in simple words what you think will happen with Scorpio sales? Will it sell more than the One S? Will it pass Xbox One/One S sales you think? Will it sell more than PS4? Or Pro?

If not, what do you consider a succes?

And when do you think Sony would get worried about it and prematurely release the PS5?

I'm not expecting the PS5 before 2019, tho I expect them to announce it during the PSX event in December 2018.....

The whole 'Xbox has no games' thing needs to die tho, it's stupid beyond belief, but same goes for 'power/resolution matters' and 'people buy the most powerful console'.....

[Z501]

What E3 do you expect MS to show a bunch of exclusives? 2018? 2019? Etc.

[OB1Biker]

Yea price matters even more and most people don't even want 4k
Edit: I mean most people don't want to pay too much for 4K gaming. I think many like me are fine with 1080p for a few more years. PS4 is selling better than the Pro for a reason

[GrubsterBeater]

I feel that once 4K TV's start becoming cheaper and more mainstream, THEN the Pro and Scorpio will start to sell decent numbers. It seems that at the moment, not too many people want or can afford 4K.

[OB1Biker]

Grubster
I agree.
These mid gen consoles start slow and will be more popular as time goes by and they get cheaper. Still I can understand a preference for a slim for a casual use even later on.

[Godmars290]

Still, in such a case MS's fans if not MS themselves have to accept being in a #2 position if they're going to let Sony provide exclusives.

3rd place if Nintendo has gotten their crap together enough this time as far as consoles are concerned.

[Alexious]

You're right, though this is a non-factor for those who own a PC since they're going to play multiplatform titles over there anyway.

[Neonridr]

true.. but the whole Xbox Play Anywhere definitely doesn't hurt for those who may want to own both.

[Eonjay]

Thats why Sony has marketing deals for COD, Star Wars and RD2. There is no escape for Microsoft.

[Neonridr]

I guess if you would rather play a DLC a week early vs playing at a higher resolution or framerate (assuming you have a capable TV).

I would take a faster / better looking game than timed content.

[ElementX]

Exclusives are nice, but I play more multiplats than anything else.

[AspiringProGenji]

I believe when people say it is the games that matters they mean 1st and 3rd parties. It means that not every PS4 owner will jump ship to get 4K. Only the manY enthusiast gamers will, but the maintream and mayority will be fine playing their COD and maintream games where their friends are or any console

Scorpio will do just fine and better than Steam machines, and that's it!

[343_Guilty_Spark]

It's okay most people do. Exclusives are like icing on the cake or the cherry on top.

[IGiveHugs2NakedWomen]

I play more exclusives. Doesn't mean anything. What matters is 60 million PS4's and more than 300 million games sold.

[sin7279]

401 milion games!

[XanderZane]

I do as well, but I still like quality exclusives on all my platforms. Microsoft has released some exclusives, but unfortunately only a few of them have been very good. Games like Forza Horizon 3, Gears 4, Sunset Overdrive, Forza 6, Rare Replay. Halo 5 were decent, but they still need a lot more. The fact that the OG XBox had more exclusives then both the XBox 360 and Xbox One combined should tell Microsoft that they definitely need a lot more. I would love them to do some sports games and more RPG's. Give us some exclusive new IP games that are like Kingdoms of Amular: The Reckoning, Divinity: Original Sin, Bioshock, Splinter Cell and Silent Hill. Microsoft is going to have to spend some money.

[Sharky231]

Fun fact... most everyone plays more multiplat games! The reason the PS4 has been a success is because they have a great mixture of exclusives and multiplat games. Just look at the wiiu and Xbox one. Xbox relies heavily on third party multiplat games. Nintendo probably has the best 1st party ips of all three but no third party support! The proof is right there. Just look at the sales difference in all three consoles. It's just facts!

[XiNatsuDragnel]

Games are first, then powerful, and easy to develop for hardware, also price, and demographics you want to target, and finally good and constant message of what your trying to sell. MS has at least succeed on three fronts, the other two that's up in the air.

[Cybermario]

exactly, powerful hardware without nice exclusives wont matter, sadly MS Gears and Halo are going downhill, they need fresh and new exclusives if they want to keep the fans

[Lennoxb63]

It's hard to compare Xbox to a platform that has had a gen head start, AND a monopoly. While Xbox could be doing better on the exclusives end, PS would always have more support no matter how much money MS threw at Xbox.

[WeAreLegion]

Nintendo had a two generation head start. PlayStation came out swinging and won.

There are no excuses.

[Lennoxb63]

Nintendo didn't evolve. Xbox did. Xbox just isn't producing as much as they need to. But even if Xbox was producing lots of games they still wouldn't have as much as PS. PS has all of the Japanese devs to themselves, plus American studios they bought and built before Xbox was even on the market. That's not an excuse that's a fact.

[Liqu1d]

Exactly. You just destroyed his lame defense.

[ShadowWolf712]

..what?

[TheTony316]

Lennoxb63
That's no excuse. Sony dominated the market with their very first console.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

So if Xbox can get the games...

[SpaceRanger]

Keyword..."if"

[rainslacker]

Then they'd be doing something right, and any criticism wouldn't be warranted. As it is, they are doing something wrong, and they deserve the criticism they are getting.

[MasterCornholio]

They need to prove that first though. And by prove I mean announcing and releasing those games. Hopefully we get an update at E3 from them.

But even if they do that, the PlayStation brand is extremely powerful and will be difficult to topple due to how loyal their fans are. And as long as Sony doesn't falter with the software I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Believe it or not Microsoft still has a long ways to go before their brand is as popular as Sony's. This is true especially in the east and Europe.

[PunisherRevenge]

Well it's about the games now since PlayStation no longer has the power advantage. Rewind the clock back 3.5 years and the all you'll see is the media and fanboys run around screaming about how much more powerful the PS4 is over the Xbox1....SMH!

[Nyxus]

So what if they did? Doesn't mean they were right. You wouldn't agree that it's about the games? Not to mention, that was a different situation. It was the start of a new gen, people had to decide which system to buy. But now we're three years into this generation, most people have made their choice already.

[PFFT]

lol yep! Now that the PS4 will be getting its ass whooped in the graphics department all of a sudden its become about the games.The Sony Fanboys are sad sad little creatures.

[trooper_]

Aren't you the same guys who said graphics didn't matter?

Riiight.

Games always mattered so...weak argument.

[tyasia0]

Hmm I seem to remember XBoners constantly saying graphics don't matter. Funny how that works.

[Kribwalker]

It was resolution that didn't matter. Not graphics. Get it straight. And resolution meant everything to Sony and their throng of fanboys. So much so that Yoshida and Cerny even stated playing games at native 1080p would make you a better gamer. Well yoshida, would playing games at native 4k over 1800 checkerboard make you a better gamer?

[ShadowWolf712]

Which was relevant because the system was $100 cheaper yet more powerful. Kind of a big deal.

[Liqu1d]

These guys love to ignore that fact. The combination of being cheaper and more powerful was pretty devastating, you would expect a more expensive console to be more powerful. Then there's the fact that Sony are known to support they're consoles with a wide variety of games.

[Kribwalker]

You are forgetting the fact that it was $100 more but came with a $150 peripheral. Sure the Kinect as a focal point hurt them, but you can't say it was $100 more and less powerful without including it had the Kinect

[MasterCornholio]

That's because Microsoft was selling a weaker system at a higher price. I mean if you pay more and get more it does make sense but if you pay more for less it really doesn't. If the X1 was more powerful than the PS4 than this wouldn't have happened. Microsoft made that mistake because they wanted to bundle the camera with the console and they could only do that by selling it at a higher price and making sacrifices in the systems specifications.

[MasterCornholio]

@Next

In that case that would still be a problem because a weaker system should be cheaper than a more powerful one. If the Xbox One was cheaper than the PS4 then there wouldn't be this problem.

The whole you pay more to get more thing.

If Microsoft really wants to make Sony look bad they need to undercut the Pros price with Scorpio.

[Father__Merrin]

Ps4 is still better than x1..
Scorpio will be better than ps4pro but at what cost?

Ps4 owners have no real need to upgrade unless they have a 4k TV or just prefer better visuals etc

On the other hand x1 owners still have a leaser console with lesser games... The only way out for them is to sink around £399 into a new system and trade the x1 in.... Its Xbox owners who will loose

[Kingcorey13]

pretty much.. if i only cared about power id have a pc already. Or if pc had studios like naughty dog, gurrilla, sony SM, ext id have both.

[Bigpappy]

PC also has more games than PS4. Do you have another point?

[oakshin]

(Pc also has more shovelware then ps4) you welcome =^p

[sin7279]

Yea more games but 90% this games are pure garbage!

[MasterCornholio]

People complained about that black tiger game. Well on PC there are thousands more like it do to the platform being so open.

[Kingcorey13]

no I only have one point. Games that are only on PlayStation are better then games that are only on pc.

[PlayableGamez-]

It only matters to the fanbase with the weaker system.
Let's be real PS fanboys, don't forget #ResolutionGate.
Don't forget all of the XB1: 720p, 792p, 900p vs PS4: 900p, 1080p articles
Don't forget all of the names you gave the Xbox One: Weakbox One, Xbox 720, etc
Don't forget that some of you stated that you care about hardware power. Don't lie to yourselves.
Don't change your minds now... You frauds.

[Silly gameAr]

Don't be butthurt and take it personal like you own the xbox brand. It was petty, but no need to be just as petty.

[PlayableGamez-]

I don't really care either way, but a lot of these frauds never cared about games. Fanboys don't care about games, they care about hardware and brand loyalty.
PS fanboys only have games to argue with (which I do agree with a lot of the times), but now hardware power doesn't matter to them anymore because the Playstation 4 is no longer the most powerful console.
So let's cut the crap with the "it's the games that matter" bull.
Xbox fanboys aren't any better either. Now hardware and resolution matters to them and not games.

[SpaceRanger]

"It only matters to the fanbase with the weaker system."

Which is still currently Xbox and will be Xbox for the remainder of this year till November. Don't get mad that you chose to buy a console that does sub-HD resolutions for most of its games.

And how are fans of PlayStation frauds when the PS4 still plays games at an HD standard and includes HDR at no cost? The Scorpio isn't all of a sudden going to make the PS4 play games at 720p, nor is it going to improve games that play at 720p for the Xbox One.

[PlayableGamez-]

I have a Gaming PC. So what's your point even if that was the case?
I have always had the definitive platform
I never cared what console is more powerful because they are both good consoles. I don't have an Xbox One by the way. Don't think I am so butthurt Xbox fanboy, because I am not.

[PFFT]

And come November youll be the one to own a console that will be sub 4K. And so will the rest of the fools urging Sony to release the PS5.

[SpaceRanger]

@PFFT

The PS4 Pro plays at 4K, so you simply sound ignorant. And even worse, the ones with a "4K" console will be "urging" MS to release games.

And give a break to the guys who are still playing at 720p right now on Xbox. No need to throw 4K in their face like that.

[Kribwalker]

So you are sitting here talking smack about buying a console that does "sub hd gaming" and then you go on to State the Pro does 4k gaming. The ratio of non "sub hd" games on the Xbox one is way better then the ratio of games that play on the Pro at native 4k

[ILostMyMind]

Are your feelings hurt?

[ShadowWolf712]

Yeah, yo do remember that happened after the Xbone was proven to be the weaker system while costing $100 more, right? Fanboys kept insisting the ESRAM would give it an edge, the Cloud, DX12, on and on, insisting that system was secretly more powerful, trying to justify that $100 price jump to people.

In short, when I have a better option for $100 less, you bet Imma make a big deal about it.

[Lennoxb63]

Xbox One does have the edge on efficiency. It just still doesn't have enough horsepower compared to the PS4.

[Kribwalker]

$100 more with the Kinect camera.....man you guys sure like to have your alternative facts out here

[ShadowWolf712]

@Kirbwalker
Doesn't matter if that was WITH the Kinect, the Kinect was mandatory. You weren't buying the system without the Kinect bundled in, and it was initially needed to even work the system.

Cost without the Kinect was irrelevant.

[Kribwalker]

Ok, so a less powerful system, and an added peripheral that later would sell for $150, that once removed dropped the system price down to equal/less then the PS4. So having the Kinect in there is irrelevant? Even though when it was no longer included the cost of the console dropped by at least $100.....please explain to me how that is an irrelevant piece of information? Because you were paying $100 more for a less powerful console AND a Kinect.

[ShadowWolf712]

@Kirbwalker
And nobody wanted the Kinect. It doesn't matter if you got it TOO, it was the sole way TO get the system, which was weaker, and cost $100 more because of a forced peripheral that they tried to insist was INTEGRAL to the system.
It's literally irrelevant that they were tossing that Kinect in there. People didn't want that Kinect. They wanted the system. And that was the only way to get it.

And when there's a better value on a more powerful system available for $100 less, people WILL point that out, end of story.

[MasterCornholio]

Don't forget resolution gate with the PS3.

What I'm trying to say here is that having the most powerful system isn't permanent. One day Sony will release a console that's more powerful than the Pro and one day Microsoft will release a system that's more powerful than Scorpio. Sometimes a PlayStation will be more powerful than the strongest Xbox and other times it will be the other way around. What's always true is that PC will always be on top.

It's a cycle that repeats over and over again and people have to accept that.

[Z501]

Why do you care what fanboys think?

[Stogz]

Always funny to me when fanboys like yourself bring out this argument. You'd think you'd just want to keep your mouth shut about it since you guys flipped the exact same way. You guys spent 3 years proclaiming graphics didn't matter, now all of a sudden they're most important. You ask me, both sides that contributed to that are the problem, but you go ahead and keep your head in the sand. Id expect nothing else from a fanboy.

[rainslacker]

I guess you could focus on those people. It's more convenient than trying to defend MS utter lack of games in comparison to Sony's output. Remember when Xbox fans went on and on about how Xbox games output was much better? Where is that attitude now? Why aren't Xbox fans livid with MS over what MS has to show in their games department right now....because that was about the only reasonable thing they could lord over Sony fans for years....although that argument was spurious during that time as well....at least they had more weight than they do now. Is waiting for E3 really a solace enough to stem the tides of Xbox fans actually calling out MS on their utterly pathetic exclusive game line up?

Call out Sony fans all you want as frauds, but it's the Xbox fans own hypocrisy which is hurting them more than Sony fans "fraud". We commit fraud, you get stupid fan boy arguments. People like you ignore MS current game line up is completely and utterly pathetic, and it hurts you as part of the Xbox user base.

I dunno about you, but I'd be more concerned about getting support from MS over being concerned if Sony fans are hypocrites.

[Artemidorus]

Xbox could provide me with a stunning display of Halo looking the business, I still wouldn't buy it.

They need new fresh Ideas, Rare making that pirate game is a good example.

[XXanderXX]

Okay

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Yeah... please someone tell Nintendo that. WiiU had plenty of good games that were not on any other platform.

[Nyxus]

Wii U had different problems though.

[ShadowWolf712]

Wii U had six month droughts with no releases other than VC titles.

They had first party, but it was sparse, few and far between, and entire studios that turned out next to nothing because they had to make it work around a forced gimmick.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I am not gonna say the situations are the same, I know it's not. However WiiUs problems centered around the systems lack of power in the face of new hardware from MS and Sony. They got no real 3rd party support because 3rd party couldnt put their newest games on WiiU with out severely gimping the game.

[ShadowWolf712]

It's not just power. Certainly a factor for some games, but not all.

It's the division of memory, having to project to that second screen, having to incorporate the gamepad which was too much work for most small dev teams and not worth the extra manpower and cost needed for the larger due to its small install base.

Honestly though, the Switch is finding itself in the same boat power-wise with some third party offerings. Mass Effect, Red Dead, etc. aren't gonna be on it without being majorly gimped, fighting games will have to lobby through a phone app, most of the support is coming via ports of older games...

[Doomeduk]

Any young developers out there that get in with Ms studios would be like turkeys voting for xmas

[rando]

all that power means nothing without the exclusives. thats what really matters.

[quenomamen]

Somebody else said the sane thing couple years back

[Skankinruby]

Ya don't say? Funny it was the xbox crowd preaching this concept with a hollow foundation of games of its own last gen.

[VoodooProject]

At the end of the day Project Scorpio will run native 4k while PS4 Pro will do fake 4k Chinese checkerboard trickery. It's a fact.

[tyasia0]

And PS4 will still sell double the consoles and software.

[VoodooProject]

If sales what matter why is Microsoft a 380 billion dollar net worth company while Sony is a 12 billion dollar net worth company? Im Confused. So I Microsoft a more dominating company?

[DeathtoOtakuDJ]

You keep saying "Chinese checkerboard". They didn't invent the checkerboarding technique, and Sony is a JAPANESE company. Talk about total ignorance and plain awful trolling.

[Chris12]

@wooliewatcher, you haven't grasped what chinese checkerboarding means. It's a description/insult of cheap fake items as often made in China rather than the original or proper items. It's nothing to do with where it was invented or where Sony are located.

[xxjabberxx]

I rather have a gaming console with a diverse range of games than the Xbox one trick pony.

[PizzaSteve]

At the end of the day PS4 Pro will still offer more games than Scorpio. It's a fact.

The average person won't care about checkerboard trickery because they will buy what offers more value for their money. PS4 isn't the #1 selling console for nothing.

[trooper_]

No, at the end of the day it will still be about the games.

Sorry.

[Liqu1d]

You keep saying "fake 4k Chinese checkerboard". Do you lack the intelligence to come up with anything better to troll with?

[rainslacker]

And at the end of the day, the stock PS4 and X1 will vastly outsell the Pro and the Scorpio, regardless of how fancy the graphics look on the screen.

[TheOttomatic91]

Ragnar has always spoke his mind and I've always admired him for it. Despite my mixed feelings on his games (it's just an opinion) I can't help but feel he's saying what I've been thinking all this time, games are truly all that matters for a successful console.

[senorfartcushion]

How the tables have turned.

So does that mean that the Xone and Wii U fans were correct first then?

[guyjean]

unfortunately yes. I kinda wish xbox had enough games for me to justify getting the scorpio instead of the pro.

[xxjabberxx]

Ooooohhhhh! Them are fighting words! It with all due respect...what does no games look like in 4K?

[S2Killinit]

Yup. the games and whether you can play the ones that shouldnt be missed.

[girehuh]

read your first sentence again before the first comma.
><><> www.paybuzz7.com

[MagicBeanz]

Well lets be honest a well built PC has a power advantage over PS4 Pro but you get PS4 for its true exclusives. All the power in the world doesn't make a system great, especially when you can play said systems games on a well built PC.

[UKmilitia]

this is getting silly now,
the ps4 pro and scorpio are just ps4 and xbox one in beast mode!!
my ps4 pro looks amazing and im sure the scorpio will too but neither are good without the thing that matters
GAMES GAMES GAMES
the titles sony has on ps4 are stella and apart from the odd couple i dont think MS has any.
yes power matters which the ps4 pro has shown makes a big difference but MS has already said it will only be xb1 games and no games released just for the scorpio.

MS please please invest in more studios and games

BUT A HUGE NOTE TO MS.
if you buy a developer because there great and tallented.
LEAVE THEM TO DO WHAT THEY DO BEST AND DONT RUIN THEM!!!! rare is a perfect example.

[_LarZen_]

It's strange that its frown upon to buy a console to get the best visuals and performance. But not if you buy/build a gaming PC to play basically the same games more or less...

[Lennoxb63]

Because you're implying that the average consumer has the money to afford one, and/or the tech savvy to build one. And that's not true.

[_LarZen_]

Then they are hardly the costumer demographic and are irrelevant to this discussion.

[Hendog1981]

Correct Red Dead 2, Battlefront 2, shadow of war cod WWII etc

[JasonKCK]

Odd... It was a completely different story up until Scorpio was announced.

[Liqu1d]

No it wasn't. It has always been about games.

[JasonKCK]

DF comparisons
40% more powerful
"1080p makes you a better gamer"
X1 bashing articles

All say hi. Try and deny it when you're on the website that took advantage of it. Nice lie, I mean try.

[Liqu1d]

Digital Foundry are a tech analysis site so obviously they compare performance, it's their job. They even compare consoles to PC.

The PS4 is more powerful than the X1 and was cheaper so why wouldn't that be talked about. You expect Sony not to use an advantage to sell their product? If talking about a console being more powerful bothers you then I expect you to not talk about Scorpio being more powerful.

A quote from someone who works at Sony, he can't possibly be trying to sell a product. /s

X1 got bashed for things it deserved like DRM, PS3 also got bashed last gen but that gets in the way of the media bias narrative you guys have been running with since the X1 reveal.

It has always been about games since forever, even last gen it was about games. No amount of damage control will change that. Being more powerful and cheaper was icing on the cake.

[Stogz]

It sure was, you guys were all about graphics not mattering and no difference between 900p and 1080p. Now its a completely different story...hmmm.

[Many-hat5]

Firstly, yes, games are the most important thing,no question. That said,anything that contributes to a games immersion or realism is also, very important. And graphics - meaning resolution, quality and frame rate, all add enormously to our enjoyment of a game- second to it being a good game, of course. I suspect we all agree on that, otherwise we would still all be playing 640X480. But, all this fanboy nonsense is extremely irritating to real gamer's like myself. I'm fortunate to own PS4, X1 and PC rig, and I intend to support Scorpio if, and only if, MS decide Devs can utilize it's full power for all new games. But come on, the idea that exclusives matter as much as many of you seem to think they do, is just plain silliness.They may help you decide which console to buy initially, that's true, but it's all down to preference.However, after that you are pretty much preaching to the converted. PS4 owners mostly don't care about Gears,Halo etc That's why they got a PS4, because they prefer LOU, God of war etc. And pretty much X1 owners don't care all the much about PS4s' aforementioned exclusives, that's why they chose a X1- for Gears and Halo. Get It? So banging on about exclusives is pretty much irrelevant, so please stop.

[zerocarnage]

omg I have to laugh at this. when the ps4 and Xbox one came out both console for first 2 years at least suffered with no games and all but remasters.

All you heard on these forums and forums alike and all over game sites was ps4s power over Xbox one all the way until Scorpio got announced. Now it's exclusives this and that from all the haterz and fanboys. While the power was being put all over the boards, you had a vast percentage of Xbox players who didn't go for the Xbox one and they said so and vented it was because of the power and the ps4 the same as Xbox one lacked any exclusives at all.

You idiots keep dreaming that it's all about exclusives, wait till Scorpio is out and everyone flocks to it like they did with the ps4 over Xbox one. When the industry is releasing new and better console people will snap them up, we all want the best available at the time.

You peeps keep living in the clouds, it's the same for mobile phones, tablets, pc's, tv's and any other manufacturers of hardware out there, if people can afford it they will have it and your all just thinking that putting the hate on these boards that you can stop what is about to happen, no you can't.

I have seen it so much on these boards you people who fanboy and hate for no reason at all say this will fail n that won't sell only to be prooven wrong time and time again, it makes me laugh and gives me a giggle.

I remember all the hate towards ubisoft and the division, people saying it would fail it will be dead in 6 months n so on, yet there the game is and certainly alive very alive and thriving. Sure at the start it went through a phase and player base dropped but then most of the population went back and the game is crazy hot now. The fact that the division solt so well and it's still there didn't half call you lot who do this such a bunch of idiots.

Youhave all done this with so many developers of consoles and games over the decades and been prooven wrong it certainly is more enjoyable watching paint dry.

I call bull crap on all this nonsense, a console needs games that is it, most people these days are playing games made by developers that Are not even exclusives. Sure it's nice to have exclusives but don't kid yourselfs into thinking it will stop a new piece of shiny console which will be the best on the market from selling well.

Wait till e3 as well I bet ms will have some new exclusives coming out along with the stuff already mentioned. There is also a good bunch of pc games coming towards the Xbox, thanks to ms for bridging that gap faster than any of the console devs are doing. I'd rather play the past, present and future pc games than have a bunch of exclusives for a console, since to consoles pc devs for so long would not touch consoles for various reasons.

The whole exclusives arguement that Sony fanboys and ms haterz keep talking about, well the only time I'll believe that is when the Scorpio is here and it's had time to sell, till then keep providing me with the giggles because you lot don't half talk crap.

[Z501]

Why do you care what fanboys say/said?

[Gwynbleidd]

Well said!

[King_Lothric]

We all know that and it has been proven along the history of the gaming industry.

[81BX]

Can't wait to get my hands on Scorpio and play amazing games!

[Mithan]

Scorpio is obviously about 50% better in the GPu side of things, which means better graphics and art. I was an Xbox gamer until PS4 came out. Only got the PS4 because of the exclusive games. Xbox games were all on pc at much higher graphics fidelity.

I have no use for Scorpio, because I'm running a 7700k with a 1080 ti. Got a PS4 pro too, so I'm covered. I see Scorpio only being relevant too people who don't want a good pc. Still need a PS4 for the exclusive games though.

[N8]

I've had my X1 in the box since January. No reason to have one anymore its sad.

[T2X]

I'll be honest. If they have some really good games, I'm picking up a Scorpio too.

[Yohshida]

Strange, it didn't matter for the past 3 years. Power was all that was important. Guess things change rather quick.

[kstuffs]

It especially didn't matter in 2015 when even Sony's executives said it was "sparse". In fact, an article claimed the spareness was actually genius!!! I am not making it up at all.

[Yohshida]

I know right? Having no first party games was the best thing ever!

[ShadowKnight]

Hey Microsoft 😅😆😂
😁

[XStation4pio_Pro]

so. much. salt. laughable. i've never seen so much emphasis put on exclusives until scorpio became reality. literally. that one out of 6 games you buy is more important than the majority of the games you buy.... as if ms will never have exclusives again. just weird. i get that exclusives are important, and they are. i love exclusives. but i also love my games to look and perform the best that they can (without jumping to a pc before anyone says it). and even if ms doesn't have as many exclusives as sony (which btw i have about 3 exclusives on my ps4 pro but about 12 games total) it would still be worth it for me to have the majority of games i own run at their best. the reality at least for me is there several factors to consider and exclusives are just one of those. performance, graphics, options, and upgrades also matter (uhd bluray and dolby atmos, anyone?). maybe scorpio won't have bloodborne 2 (which isn't for me anyway) but it will run COD, Mass Effect, Red Dead 2, GTA, and every other game at a raised bar.

[81BX]

Let them say what ever it is they need to say to make themselves feel better. Scorpio is coming no matter what they type and fans will be amped!

[rainslacker]

BS. The games argument has been prevelant this whole gen. The arguments about who had or didn't have the best or most games this gen has been a thing since before the consoles released. The comparisons to make one or the other seem better were all over the place.

The power arguments were there too, but it's not like games have never mattered.

In the end, MS fans need to stop worrying about what Sony fans may have done, or if they're hypocrites, and start to look out for their best interest. Right now, MS fans only have two mid-tier games of questionable quality to look forward to, and some hope that MAYBE E3 will bring them something more substantial.

MS fans need to start calling MS to task for their utterly pathetic offerings right now, and stop worrying about if Sony fans are hypocrites. It will serve them much better than whatever ego-stroke they get from trying to appear superior by calling out Sony fans.

[Gwynbleidd]

That is what I am thinking since the start of the generation. That is why I didn't went for the whole power narrative and bought the console which games I liked better: Xbox One.
This time around the power advantage changes but I still stay on the platform I like better. If Scorpio would have been weaker it wouldn't have changed that I still would prefer Xbox.

[welly300]

Scorpio will appeal to pc wana be gamers who can't afford a top end rig. Ps4 pro not sure what the point was, best part was it's got usb port at back.

[Elda]

It's true but if MS/XBO show at least 5 original unannounced interesting exclusives releasing this fall into 2018 that look amazing to play I may buy a Scorpio.Exclusives games matter to differentiate consoles including competition.

[Ulf]

I agree with the sentiment of the article, but MS is in a very good position, if they ever do start to build a larger library of exclusives.

Frankly, crossplats are just plain going to be better on Scorpio. Development has always been easier on MS platforms as well, so Sony shouldn't be complacent. Lets not encourage them to be so -- they've been slipping.

[windblowsagain]

Scorpio will need millions upon millions of advertising and Backhanders from Microsoft, just like xbox360 to get anywhere.

[GNCFLYER]

The more power mindset is very real. For a lot of people that's all it's going to take.

They won't care if it takes 3 years for exclusive games.