Horizon Zero Dawn's Controversy is the Wrong Way to Bring Change

It’s been an odd start to 2017 in the world of gaming. Multiple big-name titles have released back to back to back. While many have reached critical acclaim, some have also come under fire for cultural issues and diversity. In saying this, I’m talking specifically about Horizon Zero Dawn, which was labeled as a misappropriation of Native American culture. While I won’t touch on the validity of these claims (as the author certainly makes a valid point and knows more on the subject than I do), I think it presents a nice discussion: why do we nitpick these games so?

[BlakHavoc]

Played this game for 72 hours and nearly 100% it, so I've spend enough time with it to be confused to why this game faced the issues it did. The words savage and braves weren't used in a manner to insult native Americans, it's just odd to me. Savage was used in the game as an insult to the Nora tribe, as Aloy was often referred to as one by rival factions like the Carja. Even ppl saying the game is feminist is odd to me. Why? Because Aloys a woman and the Nora believe in the "all mother"? She's a strong female protagonist but I never got the sense that they were trying hard to empower females. Ppl just need things to complain about these days I guess, I'm not going to say you don't have a reason to be upset, cause who am I to suggest how someone should feel. But we really have to evaluate the situation before we go around accusing ppl of being culturally insensitive

[Thatguy-310]

Controversy that was pulled out of thin air. People just wanted something to complain about

[Eonjay]

The controversy itself was just a mild conversation actually. There literally was no controversy. It was commentary at best. The idea that someone can't have an opinion or viewpoint without drama is stupid. Trying to weaponize everybody's statements is also getting old.

[rainslacker]

People want attention. It's not about people just wanting to complain or trying to bring awareness or change.

@eonjay

A commentary should be based on actual critical thought, and not one's feelings of what they feel something represents.

[warriorcase]

exactly. The issue lies right there in the title, "Horizon Zero Dawn's Controversy..". This game did nothing to create controversy, it's bullshit media and PC internet personality wannabe's that create these controversies from nothing to generate viewership either for their ego and ad revenue. Problem is there are enough morons out there in the world that just spoon up and drink down anything that is posted on facebook and the like as truth. It's the same crap that happened in the first tomb raider reboot when Lara was being sexually assaulted and everyone was in an uproar, but everyone ignored the part where she straight away blows the guys fucking head in two. We just need to wait out this trend of being offended or having to justify everything so people can get back to telling the stories they want and having their vision fully realized without having to comprise for the possibility of hurting someones feelings.

[YoungKingDoran]

I came here to even find out what the "controversy" even was lol - thanks to the above now I dont need to read the article! Probably was only a controversy on the SJW echo chamber we all know and love, neofag

[Ashunderfire86]

Yeah I don't get the whole feminist thing? There is nothing wrong with a female protagonist. So what if the Nora was matriarchal. Humanity back then worship women as Gods so this game has its historical accuracy. There was never Father Nature anyway it will always be Mother Nature! For all we know humanity most likely started out with women, so it would make so much sense why people worship women, and also the Sun ☀️ as God. Even scientist are saying that the Sun can literally destroy itself and comeback again. It is a self creator! Look that one up!

As a matter of fact this game has a lot of symbolism about women and the sun. Horizon is one of my favorite game storylines this generation next to Last Of Us and Uncharted 4

Spoiler Alert...Well kind of.

It has a Matrix twist to the story, especially when you go to the underground caludrons you see Matrix inspired machine factories.

[CorndogBurglar]

Not only that but this takes place so far in the future that the people in the world don't even know what car keys are, they call them "ancient chimes".

So if they don't know anything about our present time or our people, then how in the hell is this inappropriate?

I understand they are talki g about the devs use of the words, but come on, they are called braves because they are brave warriors who stand up to the machines. They call the Nora savages as an insult. Lets not forget that people of all races can be found in all the different tribes on the game. SonI fail to see how any of thos is racist or inappropriate.

People are just always looking for something to complain about.

[BlakHavoc]

Ya it's all getting quite silly if you ask me. Ppl can't just make games anymore they have to ensure that everyone's represented and that no ones offended by the content.

[zuul9018]

Ha, dude people still try to get the Redskins name changed in the NFL. Some people are either too thin skinned or need to play the victim for attention.

[shmowboyfebop]

Are there even enough native americans left to constitute a living culture? I'm pretty sure they're basically gone.

[Captain_Tom]

People just need to stop being obsessed with labels and inquisitions.

When all else fails refer to the "Golden Rule". Honestly is someone trying to offend you, or are you looking for something to complain about?

[Letthewookiewin]

Fuck people and their bullshit. This game is incredible. In your face whiners.

[bluefox755]

"While I won’t touch on the validity of these claims (as the author certainly makes a valid point and knows more on the subject than I do),"
Why not? Touch on it. It's dumb as hell. Cultural appropriation is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I don't know why anyone even entertains SJWs on it. I've also noticed the offence only seems to apply to non-minorities in the west, everyone else is free to do whatever they want. Want white people to stop wearing dread locks? Ok, deal. Now you stop driving cars and using electricity.

[onepeg]

I wouldn't necessarily say it's stupid, or that it's just SJWs that entertain the idea. It's entirely possible to take offense from something that wasn't meant to cause offense. But the real notion is this: do we need to "censor" things to avoid hurting the feelings of others? Or does everyone need to "suck it up" and move on? It's a thin line, and it's a hard one to pin down sometimes.

[SkellyBones]

I think it comes down to knowing how to act when you feel offended by something. Quite often I see people fighting for something they have no real stake in, and it's this witch hunt mentality that is plaguing all industries at the minute. There's too many people getting a kick out of making accusations.

[bluefox755]

Censor? Why would that even be up for debate? If something bothers you, don't look at it or listen to it. Move on. It's really that simple, lol. There's a lot of things that I don't like, but I wouldn't ever think of demanding they be censored. I can't imagine being so self-important that I felt entitled to censor people because I didn't like what they were saying.

[_-EDMIX-_]

I don't disagree with you in regards to your notion my only problem is do we even know if such a thing was actually censored or if this was the main intent of the artist in the first place?

I agree with you I don't believe anything should be censored simply because somebody may or may not be offended people are going to be offended about any and everything.

That's art.

That's like telling Francis Ford Coppola did change the Godfather because of its depiction of Italians....

I truly believe Gamers need to seriously grow up suck it up and let it go they need to understand that an artist's interpretation is their own and if we allow this and film and music why exactly are we walking around this type rope with games? The attitude in the market lately with having gay or trans or specific races in games has been downright ugly and even questionable because why would anybody want to censor such Concepts from gaming when all that's doing is progressing the medium?

The fact that anyone's even debating what they think is fair to have or not have inside of a game in my opinion shows the infancy of the medium you don't see this type of crap going on in music or movies or television any longer.

@Blue- exactly 100% agreed!!!

Whenever I hear people getting upset about the gay or transgender people in Mass Effect in claiming that social justice warriors did something to put that inside of the game to ruin it or heard it or anything like that I cannot stop but to laugh at the irony of gamers getting angry at the inclusion of something.

If there was something substantial and significant in the game and we as Gamers heard it was removed Would we not be upset? I read the articles when games get censored from Marketing Executives and it's very clear people do not like their games being altered just to move units so why exactly are some of the same Gamers getting angry because they believe that these other races or sexist or what have you are being included in the game? It's almost as if they can't understand that maybe the artist wanted them in the game in the first place.

Is such a thing upsets people they're free to not buy or play the game but I would say arguing to have something removed is just as bad as arguing to have something included just because.

If the artist doesn't want it in their game that's up to them.

If the artist does wanted in their game that's also up to them.

I don't have much respect for Backseat game development or Gamers suddenly are in an uproar trying to force developers to remove or add specific things just to make their snowflakes selves feel better lol

I just think it's ironic that some of those Gamers don't even realize that they're basically exactly like the social justice Warriors that they hate so much they're basically like the opposite spectrum of it, that they're begging for removal where social justice Warriors are unnecessarily begging for adding on.

How about when both sides make a game they can add or remove whatever the heck they feel like it.

Not every artist is adding it in the game by force.

But not every artist is removing it because of hate.

[morganfell]

Touch it. Grab that controversy. Choke it. See how idiotic it is when examined closely. Dia Lacina does not understand history itself outside of her own narrow view and for creating a controversy where there was none she should be taken to task. The author makes no point. She acts as if American Indians (they were not native Americans since they migrated here too) have the sole rights to a tribal society. Let's see, a tribal matriarchal, warrior society who believed in being in tune with the earth. Oh that would be half of my ancestry, The Picts.

She was triggered over the word 'primal'. Why? Its Latin. Why was she appropriating English to write her article? It isn't the language of my ancestors either but I am not getting triggered over stupidity. She acts as if Indians own the rights to anything tribal - ooops another Latin origin word. My ancestors were tribal and they didn't tolerate the Romans or crybabies. The hypocrisy in these people is so thick you could cut it with a knife.

[KingIceSonic]

You can't write a comment without bashing SJW. If you don't bash SJW you automatically get -20 likes

[DragonKnight]

Cultural appropriation is stupid. The concept itself is ludicrous. You cannot take anyone's culture because culture is not a tangible thing that can be taken. If a white person dons a traditional Native Headpiece, that does not prevent a Native from doing the same for example.

Horizon Zero Dawn has massive problems in the attempts at conveying the political message it is obviously trying to convey.

It isn't feminist because Aloy is a female, for example, but it is diverse in an unbelievable way. Consider how humanity would be in a "survival of the fittest" scenario like HZD.

For starters, the homosexual relationships going on in the game wouldn't be some cavalier, every day, non-issue thing that just happens. Even in today's world where we aren't having to fight for our very survival for the most part that doesn't happen. But there are many such relationships in HZD.

Then there's racism. Racism in HZD is done through an idealist lens. By that I mean that GG knew that there WOULD be racism in this kind of the world, but they massively sugarcoated it. Rather than it being on actual race, the racism in HZD is, from all I can see, entirely based on location. If you were born in Nora lands, no matter your skin colour, then the Carja consider you a savage. If you were born in Oseram lands, then everyone thinks you're some meat head smith.This world doesn't have clear racial distinctions, instead the racism is entirely culturally based. Which could be used as a statement against the idea of cultural appropriation as well but I digress.

There's also the laissez-faire attitude towards religion. All religions and none are completely accepted in HZD. No religious wars between the Carja and the Nora for who they believe is god. Which, again, is unrealistic given the setting.

HZD is an amazing game, but there are political messages shoehorned into it that didn't need to be there and that's the real reason for these controversies.

[shmowboyfebop]

It's an aggrievement industry. A way for people with no social skills to have capital in the social marketplace. A few ladies go outrage shopping, a few fellas follow along hoping to get laid.

[rainslacker]

Taking offense should generally only be done when the intent is taken into account. Nowadays, most of the offense that people seem to have disregard the actual intent, and instead go straight to how it makes them feel, even if the offending content was about them in any way whatsoever.

[uth11]

If we make "cultural appropriation " a thing to be avoided, as they are trying to do. It's going to lead to segregation/apartheid, guaranteed. Because we won't be allowed to have a shared culture anymore. Is that really what they want?

[morganfell]

Like I said above, Dia Lacina appropriated English to write her article. Every day she appropriates hundreds of non-Indian items and practices.

Tribal? primal?

It is just idiocy. We might as well argue about who invented fire. She also doesn't understand the use of the word primitive from an anthropological point of view. In anthropology it is a given that the word primitive society does not actually refer to the people. In anthropology there are no primitive people, only primitive conditions. Again she is knee triggering over something that is the result of her own ignorance.

[DeadSilence]

who the fuck cares.

[Silly gameAr]

There's controversy? New to me. Is there really, or are we trying to make controversy where there is none?

[ShadowWolf712]

There's like, a small handful of people TRYING to make a big deal of it.

[Hardiman]

People won't to be offended then they will find a way to be offended. I got know hint of controversy from this game at all. People there are things to be upset about but this isn't one of them.

[guyman]

There's no controversy here. You're just a fucking idiot Making mountains out of mole hills

[_-EDMIX-_]

The issue I have is though I appreciate that somebody has such a vast knowledge of the Native American culture to want to see it represented a specific way in a game, how do they know that Horizon zero Dawn was not simply supposed to be a very light touch on the concept?

To my understanding a lot of the concepts that mirror the Native American ideals we're just lite tongue and cheek references it wasn't so much that we're ready to say that this game is some sort of spiritual Awakening type story.

I understand that somebody might believe that how the games tribes setup was more so Native American inspired, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's supposed to be a carbon copy.

At some point I actually believe we simply just need to let artist create their games

Unless this game specifically was saying the tribe was Native American I just don't really believe they have much of a claim simply because there's just too much science fiction to really say that they were aiming for something specific technically speaking the entire games concept is about cultural diminishing which means that you're not really going to retain specific ideas because of the time period the game sudden I mean a lot of the point of it is that it's an entirely new culture and way of thinking.

I would technically like to see these guys his take on inFamous Second Son because I didn't like that the character was apparently supposed to be Native American but they rarely actually talked about his culture which I felt was upsetting cuz they missed such a great opportunity to really flush that character out you were talking about a people that have a whole different set of rules in terms of how they do things and there was just such a great opportunity to do more but I see it as simply just the story not being as great or as bold as it could have been.

They talked about his people for a little bit they talk about him running away from the reservation, they talked about his respect for the tribes elders and a couple of things and just stop talking about it even though there's so much character development that's just there that could lend so much and instead it was sort of shoved away.

Because of how Horizon zero Dawn is in regards to it's fiction I'm not sure anybody could kind of hold something like that against them because we're also talking about a culture that is all but gone because of the events of the game.

[_-EDMIX-_]

"In it, all races, genders, and walks of life have an equal opportunity to survive and thrive. Yet instead of celebrating this, we have decided to pick apart the one thing it may do wrong: misconstrue Native American culture with the usage of words like “brave,” “savage,” and “primal.”

Because the world is a Melting Pot you're going to have a very good representation of how the world possibly would be in the future through something like Horizon zero Dawn I appreciate it but I got to see all the variety cuz that is how we actually see the world.

I am however upset that anybody is trying to use Native American culture against something like Horizon how did they know they weren't simply lightly touching on those Concepts?

Not even that but Horizon zero Dawn touches upon multiple cultures and beliefs at lease in terms of inspiration you could clearly see that the people that worship the sun are similar to the Inca, because technically speaking the culture has been diminished because of this Armageddon like calamity it is not going to be exact and they're not direct references, in the fact there is not really any direct cultural reference that we would recognize inside of the game nothing's really taken to a literal point that we would recognize it is even theorized if the people are even speaking English because of the focus (which would be a brilliant idea)

I think this is one of those situations where the people making these criticisms maybe need to play the game to understand why the cultural importance of these things might be irrelevant because of the actual theme an actual literal story of the game.

What talking about people that technically do not have a culture that is supposed to be exactly 100% verbatim like ours.

[starchild]

Nice comments, EDMIX.

[jaycptza]

Don't Native Americans have real problems? Even white people have real problems

[Muzikguy]

People complain just for the sake of it these days. Many times it's about the dumbest of things and almost always it's by people that don't even have a clue

[brownbanana]

As a redhead myself, I am EXTREMELY offended by the way redheaded people are portrayed in Horizon Zero Dawn. Not ONCE in my life have I killed a person with a bow. The social injustice brought upon me and my race of redheads is fucking unbearable. DOWN WITH GUERILLA!!!!

[Phill-Spencer]

"Not ONCE in my life have I killed a person...."

C'mon, that's what all redheads use to say. ;-)

[Pantz]

I though people were mad about the feminist stuff

[Aenea]

What feminist stuff?

[ILostMyMind]

There is a "feminist stuff" in HZD? I didn't notice.

[DialgaMarine]

Really just sounds like more pointless complaining from SJW snowflakes. If any game nailed diversity, it would be Horizon Zero Dawn.

[Ristul]

Yeah, how can they complain about this game, it has a female protagonist, tribes that are run by women, and a lot of different people with different skin colors.

[DialgaMarine]

And the thing is that none of it feels forced, like most games that are trying to appease the PC crowd. Several actual ancient cultures had a matriarchal system as well, where women were seen as better leaders because of their ability to bring life into the world, and the Nora were very reminiscent of those. The diversity of race actually made sense to the story, and no particular individual stood out like they designed as a certain race for some agenda. Everybody had a solid role and purpose to the story.

[MagicBeanz]

Actually its far from a valid point.

[sk8ofmnd]

Lol i would like a midget to complain that not all short people walk around in green tunics trying to save a princess... That would make my day

[objdadon]

😂😂😂 controversy? Wtf?.....back to enjoying the game!

[SkellyBones]

Alot of people in these comments seem to be offended that someone else was offended. That's gold right there.

If anyone keeps their ear close to the ground on the industry, they'll know that this stupid woman did kick up a fuss and that it did cause waves.

The article is clearly saying that this behaviour is unnacceptable and unhealthy for our industry. Yet some seem to have taken offense that this article exists because it sheds light on it. What do we do? Do we sweep it under the rug so we can avoid having these conversations? Or do we call these SJWs out for trying to diminish creative freedom and tarnish this incredible medium? I'd rather do the latter, partly because it's fun to watch an SJW squirm on their weak, reaching excuses, but also because that shit will not stand in our house.

[Ratty]

I wasn't aware there was controversy. I guess I was too busy playing the game that I didn't bother going to N4G xD
Great game! Best of 2017 so far IMO.

[opinionated]

I fucking hate this mindset with a passion. "Cultural appropriation" is the most ignorant shit I have ever heard. How pathetic do you have to be to believe in this shit? How simple do you have to be to hoard the culture of your genes, especially when you are too stupid to contribute. You uncultured swine.

I will read a book on the European enlightenment, while listening to wu tang, while eating some blow your head off spicy Hispanic shit, with a 70s kung fu flick playing in the background. All while saying fuck y'all 🖕

[tontontam0]

Lol controversy? there are a lot of games, movies, tv shows, novels that can offend people.

[ZombieGamerMan]

It's a game about robot dinosaurs, where everyone are cave people, the people who made a stink about cultural appropriation needs to fuck off, also what's bad about taking in someone else's is culture? How do you grow as a society when you say "No you can not take part of another countries culture" Unless we are talking about a very violent, homophobic, sexist, backwater culture than I think these sort of things needs to fuck off along with the people who make a big deal about it.

[taijutsu363]

The only conflict i was having with this game was, if given the chance, deciding which guy to go with...Black guy, Pornstache, or the King...decisions decisions :-I

[DVAcme]

*****POTENTIAL SPOILER ALERT*****
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It's really f'ing stupid to scream about cultural appropriation when one of the MAIN PLOT POINTS is that there is NO LINK culturally between this generation of humans and ours. There isn't any culture to appropriate. What, that the Nora culture is animistic and believes in an All-Mother deity? Every single continent has had animistic religions. Asia has Shinto, Africa has the belief in the ancestors and nature spirits, Australia has the aboriginal religion and the Dreamtime, Europe has the Celtic and Norse religions, America has Native American religions. It is a universal phenomenon to worship nature and the Earth in particular as a life-giving mother. That the fashion of the Nora resembles Native America tribal clothing? Well, yeah, considering it's crafted from the skin of animals native to North America, that would be the case.

This "controversy" is an example of SJW bullcrap going out of control. I'm pretty liberal and I usually dislike the whole SJW pejorative, but this is a clear case where it applies. Instead of praising the game's attributes, these people are coming up with inexistent controversies just to push their agenda. It's infuriating.

[DafunkyRebel]

Not once did I think they had anything to do with Native Americans hell I thought they were primitive "People"

[SgtPepper]

My toaster was offended with the way machines were portrayed in the game. Developers need to be a bit more sensitive to electronic products.

[Soulrakk]

How about people get over themselves? Life isnt fair. People have a right to express themselves creatively and I'm a full supporter of not being creatively handcuffed because it may upset someone. Art has always been that way. The second we start limiting ourselves the less freedoms we have as human beings. Art can absolutely be provocative and push boundaries of thought provoking ideas. We have become such a soft society. Every so often, just every now and then, you need someone to show you something isn't exactly how you feel or think it should be, or tell you to get fucked. Either one is sufficient.

[sampson3121]

well written, and i agree 100%

[Realms]

If I was a native American would I be offended? No why because it's fiction you know that thing we humans use to create art. In this PC world it's no wonder developers are so scared to create anything that deviates from the norm anyway thank you GG for at least trying and if your offended then grow some think skin because from what I played there was nothing offensive.

[zuul9018]

Bold statement to assume you would have the same stances, morals, and opinions if you were raised in an entirely different setting.
Im on your side on this but i dont think thats a very fair argument.
If i was born in the ghetto white kids saying nigger wouldnt offend me. Dont think i can claim that as much as i would like to.

[Muadiib]

They were pretty savage though, compared to Europeans of the time anyway. All "savage" means is that they were less civilised, aka more primitive. Compared to the west, some parts of the Middle East are pretty savage as well. It doesn't make you of less value, it just means you haven't made as many advances for whatever reason, get over it.

[Goldby]

its the way the word can be used, instead of saying you are less civilized than us, its something more akin to "you animal" like they are below the others.

that isn't happening in this game

[madpuppy]

"Horizon Zero Dawn, which was labeled as a misappropriation of Native American culture."
Yeah....don't care. Everything is a derivative of something else, The scale of stupidity and searching for something to be offended by has really reached dizzying heights.

[Captain_Tom]

Appropriation is the dumbest word ever to be "Appropriated" by recent culture.

I liked the "Future DIversity" GG came up with in Horizon. Maybe a post-apocalyptic future will have only 1 race or native culture, maybe it will have an odd swirl of all of em. Who cares?

[joethetimelord]

Oh no! The antagonists are bad people! That must mean the authors are also bad people!

I'm getting really tired of non-news.

[chrono1205]

Native here, never offended by anything in the game. If anything the tribes in game are something to admire in the diversity of the people and culture, even though they live so close.