Approvals 11/3 ▼
KingKionic (2) - 3028d ago Cancel
CerebralTiger (2) - 3028d ago Cancel
Pozzle (5) - 3027d ago Cancel
INfamous-OVRLord (2) - 3028d ago Cancel
900°

Frostbite Dev Explains The Difference Between Native 1800p vs. 1800p Checkerboard On PS4 Pro

Battlefield 1 and Mass Effect: Andromeda run at checkerboard 1800p instead of native 1800p on the PS4 Pro and the devs explain the reason.

Read Full Story >>
gearnuke.com
Create Report !X

Add Report

Reports

+ Updates (2)- Updates (2)

Updates

Changed from Pending to Approved
Community3027d ago
Changed: title
DarkLordMalik3028d ago
3028d ago
3028d ago Replies(7)
CyrusLemont3028d ago

I'm not sure if this article is poorly worded or I'm just confused. Do they mean that the games are running at lower resolutions (e.g. 1440p) and are being checkerboarded to 1800p, which then either the pro or user's TV upscales to 4k? How bizarre, I always thought 1800p checkerboarding meant they run a game natively at 1800p, then use the checkerboarding feature to create more color pixels or whatever cernimonology is used (I understand nothing.) to give a convincing pseudo-native 4k image.

Man, there needs to be a clear definition on the phrase "1800p checkerboard" if this is the case. Either way, the comparison shots between PS4 and PS4 Pro are impressive!

DarkLordMalik3028d ago

It is a type of rendering resolution that is different to native 1800p but results in a better performing 1800p resolution that is then upscaled to 4K on your TV. So the process is 1800 CB -> 4k. They can also go for native 1800p but in that case, the frame rate will dip below 30 fps and hence not ideal.

kevnb3027d ago

It needs to be upscaled somehow regardless because tvs today just don't accept 1800p.

Ju3027d ago (Edited 3027d ago )

It always outputs 4K. The signal will be 4K, scaled by the Pro. The output is only a handful resolutions (480p, 720p, 1080p and 2160p=4k), everything else is handled internally by the PS4 HW scaler.

extermin8or3027d ago

@darklordmalik they can do it like. That, they've chosen not to however ,

tywinlannister0003027d ago

They make it as vague as possible on purpose because they know it's a joke.

starchild3027d ago

Nah, man. I'm a PC gamer and I've played many games at high resolutions and I can honestly say checkerboard rendering is a good technique. I hope it will be used by more games on every platform. It has an extremely positive cost to benefit ratio. Those resources can be put to better use elsewhere.

If you have the extra power left over, like on some high end PCs, then sure, crank the native resolution and it will look even better. But that's only if you have everything else maxed out and you simply have performance to spare.

SirBradders3027d ago

Have you played Horizon? the game looks lovely on my pro / 4k HDR TV.

kevnb3027d ago

A tv won't accept 1800p, most don't even accept 1440p.

nitus103027d ago (Edited 3027d ago )

The HD standard is 720p, 1080i and 1080p while the UHD standard is 2160p (4K) and 4320p (8K) anything else is scaled to fit the appropriate pixel sizes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wi... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...

Most TV's have an aspect ratio (ie. Width to Height) of 16:9 which is a compromise industry standard** however, you can get screens that have a different aspect ratio.

Personally, I don't know of any TV that supports 900p, 1440p or 1800p although you can get monitors that do support 1440p.

Note**: When a display source is other than a 16:9 aspect ratio you will see what is know as "letterboxing" which in the majority of cases will be black bands top and bottom (ie. Cinemascope) of the screen. For many viewers, this is preferable to bands left and right. Hence the compromise. Unfortunately, a HD or UHD TV will display a standard definition (aspect ratio of 4:3) signal with letterboxing left and right although it is possible to stretch and possibly clip the picture to fit the 16:9 standard the result is usually not satisfactory.

kevnb3027d ago

If you try to input 1440p to a 4k tv it usually just doesn't work. 900p will usually actually work even on 1080p sets, but the scaling from 1440p or other higher resolution just isn't supported on most current televisions.

Ju3027d ago

It's always the framebuffer size which is used here. 2160p checkerboard uses a full 4K framebuffer, but it doesn't mean, each pixel is rendered 1:1 but instead the renderer includes CB. Same with 1800p. The native framebuffer is still 1800p, how ever they are able to generate that pixel, in this case CB. And that buffer, if it isn't native 4K is then scaled to 4K using the HW scaler.

donthate3027d ago (Edited 3027d ago )

1800p Checkerboard means, it is rendered at a lower resolution than 1800p, but with the checkerboard technique you get 1800p. Thus the image isn't as crisp as native 1800p, and certainly not as good as 4K. It still better than 1080p.

Basically it is a cheat to get 1800p, but not quite as good as native 1800p.

Bathyj3027d ago

It doesnt mean that at all. Its rendered at 1800p, theyre just only rendering half the pixels. The next frame they render the other half of the pixels and it looks like the full image. Also, when the pixels arent being rendered, they extrapolate the data from the previous frame to fill those gaps.

Checkerboarding does not mean its rendered at a lower resolution. Although in this case its 1800p so there will be upscaling to dispaly at 4k, but 1800pCB is 1800p resolution. 4kCB is 2160p resolution. They are just not native. I thing a lot of people are grasping this.

donthate3027d ago

Bathyj:

It's still not 1800p, but 1800i. It essentially renders half the frame every frame tick. So to call it 1800p is the same as saying an upscaled image is 1800p. I mean after all, the output is 1800p, it's just not native, right?

Aenea3027d ago

There is no 'lower resolution' and no, it's not interlaced either. You could call it 1800c if you want....

Ju3027d ago (Edited 3027d ago )

All the guys knowing better amuse me. Play the games and stop theorizing if the pixel is actually rendered in one pass or not. All one needs to know, is that a 1800p framebuffer is composed in about 20% less time than with a brute force straight forward render pass. The result are 3200x1800 pixels (like a 100% JPEG compressed image). So what is the point in questioning how they get there?

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 3027d ago
Aenea3027d ago

You're confused (as many are tho)! Checkerboard rendering isn't a (traditional) upscaling technique, it's a rendering technique that doesn't start with a base resolution, it straight up renders the targeted resolution. It renders half the pixels of a frame in a full frame buffer (this case 1800p), which pixels are rendered is like a checkerboard pattern, the next frame it renders the other pixels and then it fills in the gaps using the previous frame and all kinds of information like movement data.

So checkerboard rendering at 1800p means just that, that you get an 1800p framebuffer... Which is then upscaled to 2160p by the Pro using a traditional upscaling method.

Doing it this way means they render half of the pixels each frame saving time. Some of the time is lost of course due to the combining of the two frames and keeping track of extra information, but saves enough to get good results.

Horizon for instance checkerboard renders straight to 2160p without traditional upscaling...

Bathyj3027d ago

Boom. There you go. Im sick of people calling Checkerboarding "upscaling". Its not. Not the same thing at all. In fact its closer to interlacing than upscaling, like the old 1080i TV's, but since its a checkerboard pattern (hence the name) you get better results than interlacing used to give you with every second horizontal line missing.

Like you said imagine a checkerboard (they really should have called it Chess, sounds a lot smarter and it is an intelligent technique,) for one frame all the black squares are rendered at whatever the full output resolution is, which can be up to 4k (2160p), then the next frame all the white squares are rendered. The only difference with native is its doing every square, every frame. Checkerboarding is literally doing half the work, while allowing similar results and freeing up power to worry about things like framerate. Its a very smart idea.

In this case of course its only 1800p CB not 4kCB so it will be upscaled. In Horizons case at 2160P it is not upscaled at all.

CyrusLemont3027d ago

This is very enlightening, thank you for taking the time to write this. It's the simplest explanation I've read about this technique and what it does.

Guyfamily9993027d ago

Checkerboard rendering is technically rendering less pixels natively, but not in the traditional way. It renders half of the pixels the usual way, and then renders the other half using complex math and data from surrounding pixels and/or previous frames. It's a more efficient but complicated way; you're essentially getting 90 percent the image quality of a native image, but for two thirds the performance needed (it takes a chunk of processing power to do all that math and generate the other half, it's not free).

This actually lends well to the Pro vs Scorpio debacle. Native rendering at a said resolution takes about 40 percent more power (which is how much more powerful the Scorpio is), so chances are a lot of games that run at some checkerboard resolution (CB 1800p, 2160p, etc) will run at that same resolution but natively on Scorpio, leading to an image that might look around 10 percent better. In motion, however, that's not noticeable.

But yeah, if a game runs at (example) resolution checkerboard, it essentially means the devs are sacrificing a tiny bit of image quality to have better performance. Native rendering will always win in a head to head match, since CB is simply trying to educate rendering as best as possible, but CB is a more efficient method in terms of image quality to performance ratio.

joab7773027d ago

If there is a difference it is really hard for me to see on my TV. It's actually a brilliant way to allow us this advantage on a $400 machine. Just last year if you told me for $1000 I could play 4k games I woulda said you were crazy! I thought 4k TV was possible but not actual gaming!

Playing Horizon in 4k with HDR is unbelievable. I switched to Zelda and it had me yearning for a Nintendo console with this much power. Zelda is an unbelievable game, and I can't wait for the day we can play it in 4k. Seriously, it will be mind melting!

yeahokwhatever3027d ago

at nintendo's current rate. you'll get 4k zelda in 2025. Luckily for you, Im sure the reviews have already been written and theyre all tens. because why bother comparing games with other games? just compare them to your fond childhood memories!

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 3027d ago
KingKionic 3028d ago

1800 checkboard. Thankfully dice mentions what "resolution" the game "runs" at here even though it uses checkboarding. Apparently the effects they use are so demanding that 4K and 1800p is just too much for the ps4 pro.

I was gonna say "Horizon zero dawn did checkboard 4k with ease" but then again theres tons of effects and gun fire going on in Mass effect battles.

Mass effect is a cpu bound game after all.

ItMatters3027d ago (Edited 3027d ago )

some games are really demanding with explosions and destruction and demanding on the CPU, while games like horizon zero dawn are really demanding on the GPU for the pretty graphics. There are few games that do both well, Battlefiled 1 is the prime example of both done well, all on top of the incredible destruction and chaotic online multiplayer which games like horizon zero dawn don't have so its a little less impressive in my book. Dice are true wizards in this industry.

KingKionic 3027d ago

Agreed.

Dice are the masters of graphical fidelity on consoles currently from there back to back releases.

GNCFLYER3027d ago (Edited 3027d ago )

Yeah Dice is great. I'm currently thinking GG are the masters for pulling off horizon ZD on a regular PS4. And then there is the PS4 pro 4k version.

tyasia03027d ago

You two are just talking out your asses.

If it's CPU bound and "supposedly" Xbone has a more powerful CPU then why is it lower resolution on Xbox than even the base PS4?

Trez12343027d ago

You don't seem to appreciate HZD. Almost no loading screen, solid framerate, fast combat and variety, big machines, no screen tearing and high quality textures that loads really fast with little to no pop ups, big and varied world and fantastic looking explosions ( big ones too). Technically, horizon is pure magic and its 1080 on the ps4.

To say it's not cpu bound it's ridiculous. Reminded me of some PR nonsense about QB being low res and ran poorly because of " powers" while infamous SS had more power, opene world, higher quality texture, higher framerate and higher resolution.

HZD is a true technical masterpiece. It's pure magic.

starchild3027d ago

To be fair Horizon Zero Dawn often has quite a lot going on. I've been impressed at the large number of humans and machines that can be involved in a hectic battle and the framerate basically never drops.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3027d ago
Ju3027d ago (Edited 3027d ago )

Which is actually interesting. Because 2160 = 1800 * 1.20. Those 24ms frametime could be scaled to 33.3 > 24*1.2 = ~30ms for a full 2160p CB renderer. Makes me wonder why they don't do that. More headroom for some reason?

livininsin3027d ago

It's because 2160p has 1.2 times more horizontal pixels and 1.2 times more vertical pixels as well.
3840 x 2160 = (3200 x 1.2) x (1800 x 1.2) = 3200 x 1800 x 1.2 x 1.2

3027d ago
Guyfamily9993027d ago

As livininsin said, 2160p is actually 44 percent more pixels (1.2 squared). That would put the frame time at 34ms in the example (the game would probably stutter around 26 to 29fps). CB 1800p should hopefully provide really stable performance. BTW, from personal experience, 1800p vs 2160p is a small difference that's hard to see, even inches from your TV. Still a huge jump from 1080p.

SirBradders3027d ago

Yeah but the way the current consoles are made the CPU can offload to the GPU. Correct me if i am wrong.

AmUnRa3027d ago

Your correct about the PS4 doing just that.

3028d ago
Show all comments (140)
120°

AMD CEO Shares Vision Behind Xbox Partnership and Next-Gen Chip Roadmap

AMD CEO Lisa Su talks about the Xbox AMD partnership, next-gen Ryzen + Radeon chips, and AI rendering tech coming to all Xbox devices.

Read Full Story >>
clouddosage.com
Create Report !X

Add Report

Reports

+ Updates (1)- Updates (1)

Updates

Changed from Pending to Approved
Community2h ago
Obscure_Observer2h ago

AMD is really building hype around their unique partnership with Microsoft to help and build an advanced and seamless Xbox ecosystem across all Xbox consoles and devices.

I wonder what she meant by "full roadmap of gaming optimized chips" though? Seems ambitious.

Next year´s Xbox Showcase already looks promising and exciting. Here´s hoping they deliver.

Fishy Fingers1h ago(Edited 1h ago)

Some odd, deliberate wording, no branding, not 'Xbox consoles, Xbox handhelds' specifically, feels and sounds like they're building towards hardware that anyone can be used or licensed to/by themselves and other manufacturers.

Multiplatform software and hardware 'Xbox/AMD APU'.

Obscure_Observer1h ago

I guess you missed Sarah Bond´s next generation Xbox announcement this week, were she clearly states:

"I´m thrilled to share that we´ve established a strategic multi-year partnership with AMD to co-engineer silicon across a portfolio of devices, including, *our* next generation *Xbox consoles*."

But hey, I don´t think you´re entirely wrong, maybe MS will build their own Xbox consoles while licencing other manufactures to build and sell their own Xbox branded consoles. Who knows

HyperMoused1h ago

Shares vision....we provide chips for money, this deal will sell many chips, we will make lots of money...good vision

Christopher1h ago

The marketing behind this is so heavy that I worry about the actual outcome. Why are they just not showing us the product, why all this talking in market speak?

Show all comments (7)
310°

Sony PS5 Era Profits Soar Past $13 Billion, Outpacing All Prior PlayStation Generations

Sony’s PS5 era has generated over $13 billion in profits, surpassing the combined earnings of PS1–PS4, with $136 billion in sales.

Read Full Story >>
inspire2rise.com
Create Report !X

Add Report

Reports

+ Updates (1)- Updates (1)

Updates

Changed from Pending to Approved
Community13h ago
lukasmain17h ago(Edited 17h ago)

Their recent Playstation revenue is also more than Xbox and Switch combined, obviously in large part due to 3rd party sales.

Christopher17h ago

I mean, if Sony is keeping third parties happy, kind of feels like a winning method.

IRetrouk13h ago

Kinda always been that way if you look at previous gens, exclusives are important but they aint the main revenue generator.

Reaper22_12h ago(Edited 12h ago)

.While that is impressive. Microsoft made 13 billion in one quarter. Making up facts doesn't make them true.

Mmmkay12h ago

microsoft is not xbox. a bot should know that by now. you have been told this bs 1000 times on this site alone.

OlderGamer179h ago

Yeah Microsoft but Xbox on the other hand.....

Aloymetal9h ago

Your defense of Microsoft is only highlighting Lord Phil's and the lame MS mismanagement. Since you're talking about MS as a whole, imagine having trillions in the bank and still losing to ''tiny'' Sony PS and Ninty. It doesn't get any more lame than that.

Christopher4h ago

If what Microsoft made as a whole was all that mattered, we would still have Windows Phones and Zunes. I would love to see Xbox' operating profits. Love to see it.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 4h ago
thorstein10h ago

I prefer Playstation over Xbox when it comes to consoles but how does this news justify their layoffs?

Shane Kim9h ago

But the execs brother. You got to think about them. How could they otherwise buy yet another mansion and yacht?

raWfodog8h ago

People are generally paid for the work they are doing. Layoffs generally occur when there is no work for them to do (project cancelled, business slowing down, etc). I’ve been laid off from two jobs during my 40+ years of working so I know about these things. A company is not going to just keep paying people if there is no work for them to do, no matter how much profits they made.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 4h ago
MIDGETonSTILTS1713h ago

And this is why the game output for ps5 has been a tad slower…

1) they needed to be… games take longer to develop, and they’d burn out their teams trying to maintain the same pace as ps3.

2) they can afford to… games cost more than ever to push boundaries, so Sony had to figure out a way to match Xbox’s clever profit strategies in order to afford to continue to innovate and take risks.

lukasmain8h ago

So much time was wasted on those Live Service shits. Glad they learned their lesson and have scaled that way back. Still haven't killed it, but I like it being in the background and not at the forefront

MIDGETonSTILTS173h ago

Honestly, I love Helldivers 2 so much that I can forgive them for over investing in GaaS. At least they got one gem from the endeavor.

And I still dream of Factions releasing one day.

I don’t hate GaaS inherently, most are just implemented poorly.

Reaper22_12h ago(Edited 12h ago)

@ s2killinit

Thats xbox which includes other services. The playstion division also includes other services as well. Its mostly playtion but not all playstation. What's up with all the double standards around here.

Chevalier11h ago

Yeah double standards like some idiots who got to talk about unrelated profits as a talking point. Wish those damn parrots could stay on topic with game related profits.

Next thing these idiots will talk about is something unrelated like Nintendo made more off the Mario movie than all of Xbox studios TV/movie endeavors combined you know?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/...

11h ago
Deathdeliverer11h ago

@Chevalier

Mind you that’s only AFTER buying all those other companies adding them to the revenue. It was a LOT lower. This is Activision, Bethesda, and others COMBINED to get that number.

“The sales of windows professional on the other hand trounces god of war sales” 😂

Reaper22_9h ago(Edited 9h ago)

All you did was prove that you dont know what revenue is. Tencent is no.1 in profits. Buts that's ok because unlike Tencent and Microsoft, Sony isn't in it for the money, right.🤔

pwnmaster30008h ago

That’s what Xbox fanboys do. They’ve been doing this since Xbox one.

They will use all of MS, one of the biggest company in the world and play it like every dollar they earn comes from Xbox just to one up PlayStation.
Is actually pretty sad.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 8h ago
Chevalier10h ago

"Mind you that’s only AFTER buying all those other companies adding them to the revenue. It was a LOT lower. This is Activision, Bethesda, and others COMBINED to get that number."

Guys we're off topic here you know? Can someone bring us back on topic and tell us how much revenue Xbox studios does for movies and TV? Pretty sure we should also discuss how much Nintendo stands to make at Universal studios on Nintendo land and the rides should be a hot ticket this summer.

"Ouch! hahaha no wonder reaper wanna hide behind profits made by windows XD"

Yeah idiots with some sort of inferiority complex needs to get their win somewhere though. But wait shouldn't we get back on topic guys? Like seriously how much money do you think Fallout Season 2 will bring in?!

Reaper22_6h ago

Nah, reaper's not hiding behind anything. I'm just pointing out some facts. At first the narrative was Microsoft isn't going to make the money back from the ABK deal to now their profits wouldn't be as high if they didn't get the deal. This very topic is part of the reason why the deal was secured. Sony's dishonesty and reluctance to tell the truth about how much money they're making and lying about how much this deal would hurt their business. That strategy failed. They're are making a lot of money. No doubt about it and its good for the industry but don't get butthurt when Microsoft post their profits and you guys see they are also making a lot of money as well.

CrashMania6h ago

@reaper.

Microsoft don't reveal Xbox profits, sales numbers, or gamepass numbers, I wonder why that is?

You call Sony dishonest but at least they don't hide and obfuscate meaningful playstation numbers like MS do with Xbox.

IRetrouk5h ago

Reaper stop lol, only one company hides that info and it ain't sony....

Chevalier9h ago

"All you did was prove that you dont know what revenue is."

Nah all you did was confirm you're an idiot.

Reaper22_7h ago(Edited 7h ago)

You seem to be fluent in idiocy. Not everyone speaks it. So next time speak slowly and clearly so we all can understand. Getting emotional doesn't really make you smarter. Before you post a link with info make sure you know what it says.🫡

Chevalier2h ago

"Nah, reaper's not hiding behind anything. I'm just pointing out some facts"

🤡 What facts? 🤣

Please share with everyone your idiocy

What does Xbox make in revenue and profit? What are their sales? How much money does Gamepass cost them? Oh right you got ZERO numbers to post.

"Before you post a link with info make sure you know what it says."

Says the idiot who can't even tell the difference between Microsoft and Xbox? Lmao. Seriously all you're showing everyone again is how much of an uninformed parroting idiot you are.

But go ahead and post your evidence! Oh right again ZERO from a ZERO. Absolutely 💯 hilarious to see you stumble like the idiot you are.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 2h ago
Npugz711h ago

Only because of games prices otherwise it’s the worst generation in PlayStation history especially for games

Reaper22_11h ago

Thats true. The article did mention game and prices were a reason. Its also shows their greed is no different than Microsoft. Laying off all those people but yet bragging about profits and still tried to stop ABK deal. What the hell!

MatrixxGT11h ago

Closing studios, layoffs, leadership changes, PS plus increases, multiple game cancellations and delays, total flops like concord. Slowest release of first party games of any generation and they just shut down PS stars I guess because it was costing to much.
Yet they announce record profits…..the greed here is insane, MS and Nintendo too. All of them milking gamers and we just keep lapping it up like a blood hound for a meal.
Them tariffs are really hitting them hard I see.

Deathdeliverer10h ago

Well a part of running a business is a tight grip on that P&L sheet. In project management. It’s a known fact that the farther into a project you go, the more costly the corrections. Having something reach the definition of done, the end of the road, and it’s hated is a monumental loss of money. As games are usually made iteratively it’s like how was this not caught and course corrected several times before this point. Sony is definitely known as trusting and allows teams to make the games they want to make. They “trust the process”. The caveat to that big budget and freedom is if it bombs, especially if it’s your first game, you’re outta there. They have shareholders/stakeholders to keep happy. Where as normally a done game like Concord would give ROI as it was out in the wild. The cost of the project is recouped and turned into profit or delivered whatever value they wanted. If the game is now NOT coming out, how do they get that money back and stay profitable? By not paying wages for that team over a course of time that would have still been on payroll working on the next potential bomb, DLC for a dead game, and essentially costing more money.
It sadly isn’t greed, it’s business. They release these great profits because 1) it’s enticing for more stakeholders to invest, and 2) Despite failures they are still balancing the books and turning record setting profits.
How many live service games died at various stages of development? They are still this profitable? Imagine if the games came out and were hits to add onto the profits?

Christopher3h ago(Edited 3h ago)

So, you're saying that over $10B of this is from $10 to $20 software price increases? Zero to do with increased market reach? Massive MTX from third-party games?

Vithar11h ago

where are the "Sony is in trouble" sayers? LOL

Chevalier10h ago

They're talking about Microsoft quarterly profits like any true gamer would be doing.

Aloymetal9h ago

Oh, that's coming, it's a mandatory thing just wait for next gen and you'll see infinite articles from the shills and the green fanbase saying ''tHiS GeN WiL Be dIfFerEnT''

stonecold353m ago

over twitter xbox fanboy you tube are saying saying sony is broke cant afford warner bros.

Show all comments (63)
100°

PlayStation The Concert Announces U.S.Tour Dates

The tour is coming to the states as new dates have been revealed.

Create Report !X

Add Report

Reports

+ Updates (2)- Updates (2)

Updates

Changed from Pending to Approved
Community1d 23h ago
Changed: title
Garethvk2d ago