Are Base PS4 Owners Getting Screwed Over Already?

Sony's flashy new PS4 Pro is a great piece of hardware, especially for the price.

Yet despite some worry and speculation about it replacing base models, we were promised that PS4 games will still run fine on the base model. The Last Guardian and Final Fantasy XV have proven otherwise.

[FallenAngel1984]

Could be the case, although those games aren't unplayable on non-Pro models

[RashBandicoot]

That's my concern. If Sony thinks games running at 20-25 FPS as acceptable then base owners are getting the short end of the stick.

[Gazondaily]

It's already happening and that's not cool. 20fps for a title that was in the works for the PS3 is just unacceptable in it's own right. I've already seen someone excuse this on the basis that they have a Pro so no problem.

And this is the problem with these mid gen consoles. I imagine the problem will be even worse with the X1/Scorpio. The Scorpio is so much more powerful than the X1 that I imagine we'll get some really shoddy x1 versions of games.

Then the 'no one gets left behind' tagine will slap MS in the face. It already will to an extent in terms of VR.

[RashBandicoot]

@Septic I think the Scorpio will be pretty much a new Xbox given how massive the gap will be.

[notachance]

lol whut, I played FFXV no problem on OG PS4.. couple of hiccups on crowded place like Altissia but nowhere near 'screwed over', last year's the witcher 3 was more laggy than those 2 titles and I didn't see this kind of articles

media and their clickbait words...

[Death]

@Septic,

Best case is Microsoft approaches Scorpio games like we already see in PC with gamers choosing the setting they want to play at. Worst case is they approach it like Sony is with the Pro. It's still early, Pro games are being held back which is a slap to Pro owners. I think the issues with frames on the PS4 is just sloppy developers.

[OrangePowerz]

That would be a valid point if there wouldn't have been games before that had been badly optimised. Just play the unpatched version of The Witcher 3 and you will see large drops in FPS.

@Septic Just because it was in the works on PS3 doesn't say anything. The way it looks now it wouldn't have run on the PS3 and if they didn't change the engine it was designed for the PS3 architecture that had a very capable CPU but one that needed very specialised coding to use it to it's full power. Should it ship with drops to 20FPS? No, but other games before the Pro had issues if they don't optimise well or if the engine they use doesn't scale very well to the architecture.

[curtis92]

It's been happening all gen, people. This didn't start with the Pro.

[bluefox755]

That's not Sony's doing. That's the developers poorly optimizing the games.

[ziggurcat]

"If Sony thinks games running at 20-25 FPS as acceptable then base owners are getting the short end of the stick."

and where's your proof that shows these games would run any differently if the Pro model didn't exist?

because to me, it seems your "concern" is just a little affected, and designed to spread FUD.

[LordMaim]

Got news for you. Final Fantasy XV doesn't run smoothly on any system, PlayStation or otherwise.

[darthv72]

There is the potential for developers to prioritize the Pro over the base model moving forward. That is usually something we see in the PC world with new video cards and devs realize that if they cater to those, it saves them time to try and optimize for something lower. consumers wanting to play the newest game will see that it doesnt run as well as it should and they will either upgrade their graphics card or play something else until they do but ultimately... they upgrade.

That is what sony is hoping people will do as well. As more games come out that look better, play better on the Pro... it is going to make base model consumers realize that they need to upgrade to stay current. sony said the core of the game needs to be the same between base / Pro but they didnt say that performance had to. So this is a new trend that consoles are getting that PC's have had for years.

@ zigg... The PS5 will be greatly improved over the PS4Pro until the PS5Pro comes out 2-3 years after that.

[ziggurcat]

@death:

"There is the potential for developers to prioritize the Pro over the base model moving forward..."

except they've never said that.

"That is what sony is hoping people will do as well. As more games come out that look better, play better on the Pro... it is going to make base model consumers realize that they need to upgrade to stay current."

by that time, the PS5 will probably be on the market or announced (at the very least), so that's a moot point.

[Ju]

Well, the alternative is to downgrade Standard games quite a bit more. Is that what you want?

[PurpHerbison]

Sony has ALWAYS thought sub30fps was okay. They try to target the best resolution and visuals and allow FPS to take a hit every single time. Evident with the entire PS3 generation and what we have now. The thing is, they aren't really doing anything different. They are doing the same thing they have done with the PS3 and PS4, just on the PS4Pro now. Juice the game as much as you can at 30fps. Older models have no choice but to take a nasty hit.

[XStation4pio_Pro]

one could say you're just getting what you paid for. some of us shelled out money to have those better frame rates and rez. this is where the reality sets in that the ps4 isn't really that powerful (nor the xbox one). the stranger thing still is that games are scalable so you can't really fault the ps4 pro. the dev's can dial down resolution, aliasing and more to get better performance on the base system with no fragmented versioning. its not hard.

I think this is the very reason Sony released the Pro though. The base ps4 is just too underpowered for what they want to do. Maybe these games are just too big for the base ps4 to handle and they knew that (in addition to 4k, vr and a few other reasons for a redo)

[Unspoken]

This was predicted long ago. The disparity between the two was bound to split developer resources and a lack of developer support from Sony will cause consumers to experience severe growing pains.

And because it is Sony, poor performance and required patches are OK. Seems to be a trend.

[game4funz]

Just because the Scorpio is a bigger gap then Ps4 to pro doesn't mean it should be considered as anything different then the pro. That's called an excuse.

[Loadedklip]

Do the 22 dislikes you have at the time of this post means that 22 people do think 20-25 FPS IS ACCEPTABLE???

Or is it 22 completely blind Sony fanboys that can't handle a slightly negative post towards Sony?

Either way ... in-fricking-credible.

[Realms]

It's one freaking game that runs like that and it should be noted that it was in development hell for years. So hear we go with sky is falling articles about how gamers are getting screwed. Why would Sony want to screw over the OG PS4 owners intentionally they represent the majority of software sales?

@ Septic you don't miss a chance to take shots and Sony right and you wonder why you get down voted even when you say something positive because it comes across as disingenuous as F$%!

[Raiden]

@septic
The choose is simple when it comes to x1 vs x1 Scorpio, the games will be released for both hardware but you will be given the option to change 720/900p and the same disc if you have Scorpio, it will be different, but I think the wait and see approach is better that speculations based on another Company's experience. If Sony expect they 40million plus ps4 owner's to just go out a buy ps4 pro, then that what will happen as we all want to play our games on system that can handle it.

[darthv72]

@stefan

Scorpio has been confirmed to be part of the Xbox family by Microsoft.

[wheresmymonkey]

But by the same tokem there are games that have patches that dont run as well on pS4 pro. Skyrim and The last of Us remastered instantly spring to mind.

[wsoutlaw87]

will everyone stop crying and starting fake outrage about every little thing. Pro coming out didnt change tlg which was in development for like 9 years. Games had sh** frame before and will have sh** frame rates after. not a big deal. If you think only 2 games that are out, knew about pspro during development, you are being... silly.

[Nathan_Hale53]

Crazy how many dislikes you're getting when it is true.

[Christopher]

***That is what sony is hoping people will do as well. ***

How do you know this? You tell people that they don't know if these two games would run the same or not on PS4 if the Pro didn't exist and then you go making the exact same mistake by claiming to know what Sony wants. Looks like you're just supporting your own opinion like anyone else.

The fact is, none of us know anything. What I do know is that these are far from the first games with issues at launch and they won't be the last. The rest is just opinion,

[fr0sty]

Don't act like Final Fantasy games haven't ran like crap for a while now anyway... it just runs a little less crappy on pro hardware.

[SirCharles]

Here's the thing tho, you have to change the resolution to 1080p on the pro to get a stable 30fps, so clearly it's an issue with the game. You also need to keep in mind that the base ps4 is much, much weaker.

[darthv72]

@chris... Everybody knows that when a company has a new product release they are hoping consumers flock to it. No company releases a product expecting it to fail. That is pretty easy to understand as if they dont then that product fails. Seriously... dont pick out the most obvious part of my comment and then play dumb to how it works.

what i said is factually correct because that is what the companies are wanting to happen. It doesnt always but that is what they are wanting, hoping, expecting... etc. What you and others have said in regards to these games performing the way they do regardless of Pro is speculative. You dont know that answer and nobody does so just stop trying to pass it off like it was fact.

@sircharles, and you have to realize that the base PS4 is much stronger than the PS3 which was the platform these games initially started development on.

[tontontam0]

lol if you think ffxv run poorly on ps4 I'd like you to play the xbox version and make another video.

when xbox scorpio comes out I'm expecting an article from you
title should be
"xbox scorpio released xbox one and xbox one s now useless games run @5 fps"

[Fishy Fingers]

Xbox runs better than OG PS4 according to digital foundry (albeit at a lower resolution).

[tontontam0]

@Fishy Fingers
raw performance ps4 wins, devs were forced to apply vsync to the xbox version to achieve parity between the two system, if they decide to apply it to ps4 no one would ever buy the xbox version.

Don't worry devs would not waste their time with xbox one in the future as the standard that will be set by microsoft for games on xbox scorpio will be too high it will be impossible to optimized it for the xbox one.

I'm sure sony will keep their promise that the standard ps4 users will not be left behind,
on the other hand microsoft have been tight lipped about the scorpio, and have been saying, teasing how much more powerful the xbox scorpio will be. (games optimized for the very powerful xbox scorpio will probably run like shit on xbox one, or microsoft will probably announce exclusive games for the scorpio).

[PhantomTommy]

@Fishy Fingers
It doesn't actually run better on Xbox One, it's just that it doesn't have frame pacing issues so it appears smoother overall. That said, anyone claiming that the game is just fine on the original PS4 are either lying or completely blind to the horrendous frame pacing. It's not a deal breaker, but it's constant and intrusive enough that I can't ignore it.

[bluefox755]

@fishy "lower resolution" is an understatement.
Frame pacing issues can be fixed via patch, low resolution can't be.

[Kingthrash360]

I don't understand this article.
Games have had this problem far before the pro. Who's to say the pro is the problem? If the pro didn't exist these problems would still happen. All it needs is a patch just like almost every game on every console. More taxing games like BF1 run fine on og ps4... if Ff15 runs worse then it sounds like a developer issue not the pros.

[game4funz]

The game runs the best on Xbox actually. It's the smoothest frame rate experience.

You should check your facts.

PS... Check digital foundry or other fps analysis sites.

[BizarroUltraman]

I guess you forgot the part where Xbox One games and accessories will work on the Scorpio. Foward and backward compatibility... Xbox was first one to mention it aswell for consoles.

[bow2yoda]

@fishy fingers oh no... i think you upset the sony fanboys with this comment lol

[S2Killinit]

If they are getting screwed imagine how badly the Xbox one and one S owners are getting screwed.

[game4funz]

How so?
Please explain. There's no gap between standard and s

[S2Killinit]

When Scorpio releases. It will even have exclusives as the current Xboxs don't have and can't do VR

Not to mention original Xbox ones can't do HDR. (Unless I'm missing something)

[Bruh]

@game4funz

There is a gap buddy, the OG Xbox One has 1.31 TFLOPS the One S is 1.41, not massive but there is a difference enough to see higher frame-rates and more consistent performance on one machine vs the other

[Condemnedman]

what a joker

[darthv72]

Not really bruh, you are talking 1-2 fps difference which you can't really "see" like you say. Unlike the 5-10 fps difference which you can see on the base PS4 in TLG.

[wheresmymonkey]

Scorpio is a next gen machine that's going to have 100% BC. bit like the WiiU now that i think of it.

[freshslicepizza]

the last guardian has been so long in development one has to wonder why it still has development issues. i dont see this as screwing over ps4 owners and favoring the ps4 pro. it comes down to how minor the bump was this generation, why else are we already seeing midcycle upgrades? the ps3 could not do this game justice and by the looks of it the ps4 still struggles.

but as far as xbox one users, yes they will get screwed over and it also happened on the xbox 360 when they added hdmi later on. xbox one users who bought kinect are probably seeing even less value as they have all but abandoned the need of it.

[ONESHOTV2]

what does the scorpio have to do with this conversation we are talking about sony not MS so keep your focus

[S2Killinit]

why? So that when Scorpio comes out we act like no one ever claimed PS4 Pro was "screwing" PS4 owners? all of a sudden Scorpio having exclusives or playing much better than current xbox owners will be just fine and dandy? I think we shouldn't dish out what we can't take ourselves. Treat others the way you want to be treated.

[Christopher]

Two games with issues that probably would have had issues without the PS4 Pro.

[darthv72]

You dont know that. Nobody knows that. The only thing that is guaranteed are the games that already released and run optimally on the base PS4 because they were built for the base PS4. The Pro adds another development layer to the mix that has its pros (pun intended) and cons.

Base model users should not be treated like 2nd class citizens especially when they are the lions share of the PS4 ecosystem. Performance should be locked to the base model and the Pro would get visual gains like Sony said with the option to improve rates above what is supposed to already be an optimized rate for the base model.

That really isnt much to ask for.

[Christopher]

***Base model users should not be treated like 2nd class citizens especially when they are the lions share of the PS4 ecosystem. ***

I know what I said just as much as you know this. In order for a game to run better on the PS4 Pro can take absolutely no additional programming on the part of the developers, especially when it comes to performance. Assuming they 'catered' to the Pro is aking to saying that a developer catered to the latest NVidia GPU compared to the last generation model of the NVidia GPU built upon the exact same architecture.

[ziggurcat]

@darth:

"You dont know that. Nobody knows that."

TLG was in development long before the Pro was even conceived as a concept - hell it was in development long before the PS4 was even a rumour. FFXV was probably also well into its development stage before the Pro was even a thing. That's how it's known that these two games would be no different without the Pro in the picture.

"The only thing that is guaranteed are the games that already released and run optimally on the base PS4 because they were built for the base PS4. The Pro adds another development layer to the mix that has its pros (pun intended) and cons."

there are no games, to my knowledge, out right now that were specifically built for the PS4 Pro. all games are likely built to run as optimally as possible on the base model - they have to be. And to be fair, there aren't very many games out right now that run 100% perfect on PS4 or any of the other available consoles. it's also said that it takes very little effort to optimize a game for the Pro. I think Infamous Second Son/First Light took all of two people:

"Only 1 person is working on enhancing Days Gone for PS4 Pro, according to a new video report by Digital Foundry, and just 2 on inFamous: Second Son and inFamous: First Light. "

https://www.videogamer.com/...

So I think that makes the argument about the base versions of games being neglected/base PS4 owners being screwed a little silly. These two examples show, quite clearly IMO, that the focus isn't on the Pro version...

"Base model users should not be treated like 2nd class citizens especially when they are the lions share of the PS4 ecosystem."

they aren't though.

"Performance should be locked to the base model and the Pro would get visual gains like Sony said with the option to improve rates above what is supposed to already be an optimized rate for the base model."

Lots of things should happen, but they don't, unfortunately. And what about the few games that allegedly don't run as well on the Pro as they do on the base model?

[kenwonobi]

Since we are on the point of screwing customers. Xbox owners who are waiting a year for Scorpio in the meantime have the same problem. For a entire year. Screwing Xbox owners double.

[kenwonobi]

Since this is the point they want to make that completely includes every Xbox vs Scorpio version that they must await.

[Neonridr]

"unplayable" No offense, but I never thought I'd see the day this gen when games are dipping down to the low 20's in framerate. This isn't exclusive to the PS4, but this is some bad optimizing going on.

I mean hell, even on the Pro in 1080p mode this game does not run at a locked 30fps (according to the DF analysis).

Is a locked 30FPS not too much to ask for nowadays?

[ninsigma]

Those two games were built with ps4 in mind, not the other way around so any issues with performance would have happened whether the pro existed or not. The difference is the pro has more power to be able to deal with those performance issues when it runs in 1080p. Let's not forget that the 4k version of tlg has been seeing some problems too so it's not just the Base model.

[CorndogBurglar]

Get out of here with your stupid logic.

Don't you know you're supposed to bash this? Geez....noob.

[ninsigma]

Damn sorry! I'll try harder next time!

[DCadence]

@ricosuave,
Pretty rich of you to tell a man to go steal corndogs, I bet you'll never be as suave a burglar using that logic.

[darthv72]

Not true ninsigma. Both of those games were initially built with the PS3 in mind and their development shifted to the PS4. You don't know their performance would be the same if the Pro did not exist because the Pro exists now. This isnt like the scorpio which is a year away.

Pro had been rumored months before it was made official and it could be safely assumed that ANY game in development during that time could have been tapped to make a Pro version or improvements to be applied to a Pro version before their release.

The only guarantees that games made for the base PS4 are what they are would be those that have been released prior to the reveal of the Pro.

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

Some people in this site are so stupid they fall for everything it is said to them. Worse they never seen experience it to attest for anything.

TLG runs fine on PS4. I'm not sure what exactly FPS is running, but it is not a stuttering experience. There has been only one section where it really noticed it dropped while loading, and then it picked up fast. It is pretry much playable. Anyone playing the game right now can agree with that

Just because Pro onwers are getting a more stable experience doesn't mean I'm getting screwed over. That is what Pro owners payed for. If that is what I want, I get one too. If i'm fine with the performance on PS4, then I don't have to get one.

FFXV and TLG run just fine on PS4.I'm not getting screwed over whatsoever

[Corpser]

You don't notice all these dips to 20 fps?

According to DF "between 20-30fps just by running around empty areas, and with stutters to over 110ms"

[Movefasta1993]

There's evidence of it constantly dropping down to the mid 20s,that is not a stable experience.Facts.
@kurapika 21 fps isn't just dropping a frame... Just admit the game was badly optimized for the base ps4.

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

Your evidence is moot until you experience the game.

I'm not saying DF is not telling the truth, but you guys take their analysis more serious than you should or they even intend. God forbid if DF tells you X game drops a frame, and you guys think it is the end of the world or unaplayable

I have fun messing around with Trico. I barely notice few stutters but nothing drastic to say that I'm getting screwed over. Only one area where i really noticed a big drop, but that's it. Isn't this whst happens with every game right now? It doesn't happen very often. At least in my 6 hr experince in hasn't. I'm not done with the game yet so we will see if there is more

If PS4 Pro didn't exists, no one would be making a big fuss about it like before. If the PS4 Pro handles a game better, the fine. That is why it was designed for. It doesn't mean Sony is letting games in an Unaplayable,Ass Greed Unity state then focusing on Pro. That would be a real case of getting screwed over, not a minor fps drop

[bluefox755]

I've played a few hours of it, I notice a few dips here and there, but it's rare and hardly intrusive.

[game4funz]

To claim it runs fine first you need to direct yourself towards what running fine means nowadays.

Running fine means a steady 30fps which tlg does not have. You can't deny that as there is proof.

That aside. Many console gamers have gotten used to low frame rates since pretty much the dawn of time. So it is entirely possible that it is under an individuals idea of a good enough frame rate.

I've been gaming at over 30fps for a long time now and I am very sensitive to the fps experience.

To say you need to experience the game is complete nonsense and an excuse to debunk the fact, backed by evidence, that it doesn't run as smoothly as expected.

Your argument regarding your experience is moot... As It's not backed up by evidence.... Not to say you're lying.

[Nivekki]

When you're a Sony Fanboi you can deny everything.

Water isn't wet. Unless Sony made the water.

Then it's very wet.

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

I'm talking from experience @Nivekki. I'm not denying what DF said, but it is not something to be screwed over like the article says. I have the game, have you? I bet you don't, which is easy for you to agree with any kind of BS. If accusing me of beinf a fanboy is how you want to contribute to the topic, then shut up. You are contributing nothing.

@Games
Ok! Then I should say "playable" then? Because the game doesn't stutter as much and you would think or freezes... That would be being screwed over. The game's performance is not intrusive in any way. Of course if you don't play the game you will never know or even watch a video. DF will only show you the parts where the game struggles, not the whole game

This is an issue that has been even since last gen. It is silly that now people want to make a big deal about it.

[jasonpugh]

So you're saying you don't mind paying for a broken or unstable game. Congratulations! You're a developers dream. This is why we get half done games yet they still get released and we have to wait for 5 updates to get them to where they should've been before they even released.

[kraenk12]

What I find remarkable is that there are several guys not owning a PS4 who try to convince XiKurapikaKurta, who btw owns a PS4, that he should feel inferior because a game they can't even play at all runs at a framerate they heard some site at the internet calls disappointing. Did I get that right?!

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

No, that is not what I'm saying. Way to put words in my mouth @Jason. You probably bough halo MCC and Recore at launch, which were literally broken at launch, so please watch yourself...

@Kraenk

More than right! I mean it is the case that the people who don't own certain product are always more affected with their hyperbole than the actual owners themselves... But no the actual owners are always the fanboys or the liars when trying o prove them wrong, or should I say try to ruin their fun?

I'm sorry if I'm not an idiot who agrees with anything and jump into the hate.

[Kribwalker]

Yes sir, this video shows no stuttering at all and you'd have no problem playing it like this

https://youtu.be/QQINg_uAGz...

[Ju]

"According to DF"...while this is great, and I love their analysis quite a bit, most of the people won't notice any of that would you not have an article to reference to highlight those things.

BTW: The guy above me...this is most likely a bug or the PS4 is simply clocking down (heat??). This has nothing to do with the Pro vs. Standard argument...

[Corpser]

Yes I have the game, psn is on my profile,I see plenty of slowdowns, I use DF as a source because these kind of analysis is what they do, plenty of other people talking about the game on Reddit and gaf see slowdowns , this is just stating facts not a conspiracy

[Liqu1d]

People are assuming these games would run better if the Pro didn't exist. Sub 30fps isn't anything new for consoles.

[ninsigma]

Yup exactly. It's not the pros fault. It's purely bad optimisation on the devs part.

[kenwonobi]

Too much sense. Built from the ground up for the PS4. Went right over their heads. Xbox will probably struggle the same until Scorpio as well. Again right over their heads how that double screws Xbox owners who have to wait. Right over their heads.

[quent]

I can't see why OGPS4 owners can't get there own system patches like the pro is getting, make the option available to play at lower res with higher more stable fps

[UltraNova]

Its hard enought to convinve devs to develop a pro patch let alone a ps4 one..

That said its really strange since the OG ps4 is the base development system for devs. This means thay they did not optimise the game well enough to begin with and not that the og ps4 got the shaft.

[Rhezin]

wow really calling it OGps4 already? Pro's been out a month. smh...

[quent]

I meant "OG" as in the "Original" model

[contradictory]

This should've been a thing from the start if you ask me..

[Rude-ro]

Nope. These games are pushing as much as they can. This is not a new issue and in fact the games are running as mixed as last gen.
But the "gaming" media has to find every negative possible and make mountains out of mole hills.
nothing new here.
I mean, 3 years in and we have had less games actually run at a rock solid frame rate on all systems... but now it is news.

Added: I mean, was the halo mcc bad because of the Scorpio? No, but look at how big of mess that collection was.

[Death]

The mess was from matchmaking with 4 games at the same time, a feat no one has done before or after that.

[Rude-ro]

Ummmm no.
The mess was the entire package.
With horrible frame rates and screen tearing in the campaigns.
this is not debatable. There is enough proof to argue your point.

[Death]

@rude,

The proof I have is I have owned and played it since launch. You can also look here and see what critics said, http://www.metacritic.com/g... The only ones that claimed the offline campaigns were broken were people that didn't play the game or own the system. Using your friends as "proof" hardly qualifies it as truth.

[Stogz]

He didn't say offline campaigns tho, keep moving those goalposts fanboy. Online campaign was broken as was matchmaking. Anyone making excuses for that horrible release is lying to themselves.

[Death]

@Stogs,

Online campaign? Are you making up words...

[Automatic79]

Rude-ro

Stop lying you are only hurting yourself by doing that. No one believes what you saying, since you dont have an Xbox or played Halo MCC, did Halo MCC have issues yes at launch, the issues were primarily with matchmaking. However, the game runs smooth after fixes. Further, @Death is right I have yet to see any studio combine 4 multi player games in one. In the alternative your favorite publisher/developer gimps most of its games, the same way they gimped the Pro.

[trooper_]

Can you prove he doesnt have an XBox?
Your hate filled agenda is showing.

[Rude-ro]

Ha! You are precious.
"You do not have an Xbox". Why, because I hate microsofts business practices? That is because I studied marketing and business and know how disgusting Microsoft really is in the world of marketing and their dirty business practices over actually just trying to be something worth while.
Their mundane gaming business also gets under my skin because I did purchase their products and realize that they are chipping away trying to monopolize rather than be a gaming business. Known fact throughout my post history... no denying, but I assure you, I bought the Xbox one and the very big waste of money, the halo mcc. THE biggest pile of lard this gen. Not the series, the collection.

[Gaming4Life1981]

rude-ro is very wrong, the 4 game match making was causing problems and even still I was able to get into online matches but the wait time was like 3 or more minutes which was the worst until the game was patched. I never had any problems with the campaigns and I had mine day 1. People always trying to spread lies on this site.

On topic I honestly havent noticed many problems with ff15, maybe cause I have the hdr on im not sure. I have seen frame drops but nothing unplayable and not often so as a base ps4 owner I dont feel like Im getting screwed over.

@Stogz Fair enough that you and your friend was having issues with the campaign, I didnt but clearly you was so thats that. I guess different people were having different issues with the launch of this game but all of mine came from the multiplayer and when I went to the halo forums that was the main issue I saw.

[Stogz]

@Gaming4Life1981 no you're wrong. He's not spreading lies, the campaign was completely broken online, with crazy lag and freezing. How do I know? Because me and my best friend tried to get thru all of them and had nothing but issues. You defending that game is ridiculous.

[plmkoh]

Both the last guardian and FF15 were in development for well over 5 years. They're not going to wake up one day to 'screw' people over, why would they screw 95% of the PS4 population... very dumb. It's just the case that both games were destined to not prioritize frame rate in the first place, and seeing the PS4 Pro handle the issue better simply band-aids over the issue.

[Death]

Neither was made with todays hardware in mind. The Last Guardian is a PS3 game ported and then finished on the PS4. I'm impressed it works as well as it does.

[RememberThe357]

I don't think people are saying it's intentional, only that it's happening. I've been playing FF15 and it is visually mediocre, GTAV may even look better.

[wsoutlaw87]

of course they are. thats how they are getting "screwed". the framerate has nothing to do with pro

[kraenk12]

If you're really honestly comparing GTAV to FFXV you have other problems than graphics quality.

[XXanderXX]

Want to really know run a Poll to find out .
You know what rashbandicoot u guys are right don't even bother or waste time & effort .

[gantarat]

Hello darkness, my old friend I've come to talk with you again .

[uth11]

It appears to be happening already. And Pro owners with 1080p TVs get screwed over in other cases.

I never believed the people who claimed everything will "just work". I know tech, I've been a PC gamer. This kind of stuff was inevitable

[ShadowKnight]

Welcome to the club console gamers. PC gamers goes through this too. If you have a low end card unfortunately this will happen and make you upgrade your gpu depending on the game and the developer. My friend can't even play Dues Ex on his PC because the fps is ridiculous and his gpu ain't powerful enough.

[zaherdab]

there's only 2 variations of ps4... u can't really compare.
The games were designed for these variation specifically. with a millions of variations of PCs the complexity of compatibility is incomparable.

[ShadowKnight]

What about the multiplatform games🤔 didn't Hitman and Tomb Raider run better on PS4 Pro and bad on the non pro models?

[zaherdab]

I had tomb raider on the regular ps4 and now on the ps4 pro and it ran quite well in my opinion in both case... but regardless if it's the case then square enix didn't do their job properly ... does not really mean that supporting the ps4 and ps4 pro is as complex as supporting all variations of PCs

[hiawa23]

Not sure the base PS4 is getting screwed. Perhaps the devs made the best game the base PS4 would allow. I don't think devs are screwing OG PS4 in favor of the Pro. I got a Pro and getting the Scorpio, but there is only so much they can do with the base model which is the whole reason for Sony and MS releasing the Pro and Scorpio.

[q8kik]

Yea it's not like low fps was unheard of on the ogps4 before even the rumors of the pro started popping out.

[hiawa23]

I agree. These articles are interesting to me. The Pro has at least double the gpu compute units as the base model, which is why I traded in my base model PS4 and OG X1 for it, and I have enjoyed the benefits, but to say devs are purposely gimping the base model in favor of the Pro model, I don't agree with.
Devs for the most part I think make the best games time, money and the hardware would allow.

Many complained the base PS4 and X1 were not powerful enough, Sony gives you more power and people are still complaining. Go figure...

[Destiny1080]

these games have nothing to do with the pro

Final Fantasy XV had horrendous framerate every time they showed it for the last two years

Final Fantasy XV runs at a locked 30fps on the base ps4 99% of the time but it has horrendous frame pacing issues, which can be patched out {its a wait and see if it gets a patched out}

The Last Guardian is horrendous and it may never get patched but lets not rule out all hope just yet

[Movefasta1993]

SOny stated that the frame rate have to be the same,i expect them to go hard on devs who unoptimize the base version since like 40+ ps4 owners have the base model right now.

[cellmember]

That requirement is only for multiplayer games and doesn't apply to single player.

[Movefasta1993]

my bad

[Gitgud]

i don't feel like I'm being screwed over. sure ffxv has a frame drops as expected, but it didn't really affect my experience.

[joethetimelord]

What frame issues are left is down to frame pacing, which is easily fixable. I never had a notable or damaging frame drop in my time playing xv, and compared to the awful framerates we'd gotten with earlier previews, I was relieved to see it.

[classic19]

This is taken it to the extreme.. How many games have release this gen that needed updates/patches to play them.. I just leave that here.. Because I'm sure you can name more then a few.

[adaminoregon]

Of course. The tech on the base model is 4 years old, which is a lifetime in computer. What did people think was gonna happen? Remember when the N64 got a ram boost accessory? All the games after it came out needed that boost, because why design a game to run on old equipment? It isn't going to happen.

[DillyDilly]

Thank you Sony for showing Microsoft what not to do with the Scorpio

[kraenk12]

Instead they are going to leave the XBox One dead in the water....just wait and see.

[Jon_Targaryen]

If I can Jtag it in the process then I wont be bothered.

[Muzikguy]

People seem hard up for stories these days

[bellyboy]

Just cause 3, runs terrible on ps4, witcher 3, in certain sections towards the end of the campaign (no spoilers) hits single digits, even freezes for a few seconds, mad max ps4 particularly during the storms drops to low teens fps. PS4 owners arent getting screwed, bottom line is the cpu in both xb1 and ps4 are woefully under powered for the demands of todays games, especially games bound to the cpu, watch dogs 2 city is just as empty of the pro as it is on the base ps4, npcs are cpu bound, thats why the cities feel sparse, these are tablet cpus driving console gaming, scorpio and ps5 need to evolve to a more powerful cpu, and personally if that means i got to pay 150 more, then so be it, be totally worth it in my opinion, people need to remember the ps4 comparisons to pro were always going to seem like the ps4 is getting left behind simply because the pro is that much more powerful graphically but cpu wise both games will suffer in the same departments. (pro has a marginal bandwidth advantage too but seriously....not much)

Take this as an example. Resogun, on ps4 in my opinion is still in the top 3 games graphically and performance wise, yesterday its confirmed the pro version will get 4k HDR and i presume 60 fps is still paramount, but compare that version to the base and it will look night and day, and theres an easy solution, buy a pro and a 4k tv (i know its expensive and difficult to find money for them), Technology evolves, as consumers it is up to us to decide if we think that is worth buying it, which sucks cause it costs money, but thats the same for all technology unfortunately, theres no story here, ps4 games are being pushed to the limits, god of war proves that, horizon zero dawn proves that, pro is just better and is available to anyone with the means to upgrade, i did and its been best gaming experience for me...and forza horizon 3 in hdr on xbone s.....seriously that game looks superb too....and gears 4 actually..... good times.

[curtis92]

Knew this would happen. All gen we've been getting games poorly optimized and the SECOND Pro comes out, people start acting like SUDDENLY base PS4 games aren't running super great and it MUST be a conspiracy. FFS.

[MilkMan]

We talked about this already. I stated plenty of times that all the pro model is doing is segregating your customers.
You can spin that however, you like, its was a boneheaded move. Pro exists for two reasons, to squeeze more money from your customers mid-lifecycle and to make VR games. With the added bonus of selling your 40+ millions customers more (preferably) Sony 4k TV's
If those things sound appealing to you then cool.

[curtis92]

Nothing's changed, nor will it. I'm willing to bet for every 1 Pro sold, 5 more Slim models are sold. Last Guardian's framerate issues would have been the exact same had Pro never existed, as with other games. Pro exists for the exact reasons Sony says, to give people with 4K an option to play PS4 games at a higher res. It's that cut and dry.

[Taero]

? I play FFXV on the base model and haven't noticed any problems with it. Occasional texture pop in on first load but after that it's solid. I understand there to be frame drops in later cities (I'm only in chapter 3) but for now after 11 hours it seems fine.

[fllysurfer]

Only a naive fool would think a newer model would take second place in a company's focus in regards to the "previous version".

Its the logic of smartphones, particularly Apple Iphone way of handling products.

Yes your older model will run the newer games but... there's always a but.

[Artemidorus]

Got myself an OG Xbox One and Playstation 4 and it's been disastrous. It's all out of date within three years.

My next gaming machine is a PC. Get more bang for my buck when regularly upgrading. None of this fake 4k nonsense.

[xDealtwithIt]

Nope, no fragmentation of the user base at all right?

Called a while ago that this would happen. That devs and Sony would concentrate more on the Pro version and shaft the original ps4 owners.

LG and FF are just the beginning, there's no excuse for the technical issues to appear on PS4 but not on pro, especially after 10 years of development. And with the Pro only being a semi updated console it's even worse that a game doesn't work as intended for the vanilla ps4.

[ziggurcat]

"Nope, no fragmentation of the user base at all right?"

exactly. no fragmentation. both of the games you cited would run exactly the same on PS4 regardless of whether the Pro model existed.

fragmentation would *require* there to be exclusive games for the Pro.

[xDealtwithIt]

Exactly the same? Wow, how much effort does it take to be this blind?

Both games mentioned do NOT run the same and fragmentation does not *require* that one console needs exclusives. I don't know where you are getting that idea from but it's wrong.

But keep thinking that if you want only proves how blind some are when defending Sony.

[ziggurcat]

"Exactly the same? Wow, how much effort does it take to be this blind?"

so where's your evidence to support that those games would run any differently on the vanilla PS4 if the Pro didn't exist?

"fragmentation does not *require* that one console needs exclusives"

yes, it does.

[ziggurcat]

" https://www.google.com/amp/...

I dont even know why i bother. It's been all over n4g."

you're not understanding. I said the *BASE* version would run exactly the same as it currently runs on the *BASE* PS4 regardless of whether the Pro console exists. I wasn't asking you to prove that the Pro version ran differently that the base version.

"Do you have proof that fragmentation *requires* games only be exclusive?"

if you can play the same game on your base PS4 as I can on my PS4 Pro, there's no fragmentation. if you can play online on your base PS4 with Pro owners, there's no fragmentation. fragmentation would mean that base PS4 owners would not have access to the same games as the Pro owners. Pro owners getting the benefits of the extra power that that console offers != fragmentation. Is the xbox community fragmented because the Xbox One S has some slight performance increases over the base Xbox One? Will the same community be fragmented because Scorpio will be able to play the same games as base/S model owners with added benefits from the extra owner that console will have to offer? Is the PC community fragmented because not everyone has the same gaming rig?

[xDealtwithIt]

So basically you have no proof. Just more spin tactics.

You are argueing something I never even brought up then. I am discussing ps4 vs pro's userbase and how the games run much better on one than another. Therefore the user base is split. You, i guess (who knows) are discussing the *BASE* only which i have no idea why you would reply to me with that in the first place.

If you're going to follow me around asking for links at least stay on the same topic as i am.

And the user base is fragmented no matter what your spin and false interpretation is. If the same game can run better and faster on the pro and not the ps4 then that separates the userbase.

[ziggurcat]

"You, i guess (who knows) are discussing the *BASE* only which i have no idea why you would reply to me with that in the first place..."

you said there was no excuse for there being technical issues in the base games you cited, and not in the Pro versions.

the base game would still run in the exact same way it currently does on the base PS4, even if the PS4 Pro didn't exist, so there's no "shafting" of base console owners going on by devs in favour of the Pro versions.

"If the same game can run better and faster on the pro and not the ps4 then that separates the userbase."

*sigh* no.

[xDealtwithIt]

"...especially after 10 years of development."

If your going to try and argue what I said then at least quote the entire statement instead of part of it and then taking it out of context to suit your own thin points.

And the fact that your saying the games mentioned would still be a technical mess regardless of the pro not only has nothing to do with my original post but is also hilarious that you would accept that as an excuse or pass.

[ziggurcat]

"If your going to try and argue what I said then at least quote the entire statement instead of part of it and then taking it out of context to suit your own thin points."

there's nothing about what I've responded to that was taken out of context.

"And the fact that your saying the games mentioned would still be a technical mess regardless of the pro not only has nothing to do with my original post..."

it has everything to do with your original post. again, what I've said is that those games would not run any differently on the base model regardless, therefore there has been no attempt on the devs' part to "shaft" base/original PS4 owners, and those two games you've specifically mentioned are not "just the beginning" of base versions being neglected. it's an asinine allegation that has no basis in reality.

"... but is also hilarious that you would accept that as an excuse or pass."

interesting, considering I've not once offered any opinion on the performance of the base version of either those games you mentioned.

[Christopher]

***And the user base is fragmented no matter what your spin and false interpretation is. If the same game can run better and faster on the pro and not the ps4 then that separates the userbase.***

TIL that the PC platform is the most fragmented user base ever, considering users are running the same games on millions of configurations and settings, many of them with advantages over others.

PC gamers living in a world of having to deal with such a fragmented user base really should consider consoles.

--> /s <--

[Stogz]

My favorite thing about you is how you are so quick to attack people for blindly defending Sony, do you not see the irony in the fact that you do the EXACT SAME thing with MS? Pot, meet fanboy kettle. I expect you'll be saying the same thing when games run far better on scorpio but run like crap on og xbox one? Nah, you'll just move the goal8like all you fanboys do...

[xDealtwithIt]

Not really stogz, kind of hard to move goal posts when a certain fanbase has them permanently up rooted for easier moving.

[Stogz]

@xDealtwithIt well when you spend most of your day online in forums for a system you don't have or care about trolling people for responses, it's kind of ridiculous for you to get defensive when they come at you.

And when it's your job to defend MS at all costs and attack even the smallest thing the competitor does, I guess you're going to have to get used to people not liking your lame posts...

[xDealtwithIt]

Who's getting defensive? You're the only one here accusing me of that. You seem to have some notion that I even care.

The only one here getting all worked up is you. Spending your whole day online following me and getting this upset with my comments that you need to actually make it personal and about me.

[Stogz]

@xDealtwithIt well since I'm in Sony threads and I always see you and your posts are never positive, only negative, it's hard not to remember. Im not defensive at all, the problem is the truth hurts you so you have to try to shift it around and say others are the problem when you clearly are. You spend your whole day on here trashing Sony and trolling, if you think anyone believes you don't care, they dont.

[kraenk12]

He's just another alt of you know who. Just ignore him.

[trooper_]

Thank you for being so 'concerned'./s

Sorry, I didn't know Sony released new games for the Pro that aren't on the original PS4. That's called being screwed over/alienation, not performance issues that existed BEFORE the Pro.

[ziggurcat]

No.

[AnubisG]

Next we will hear that base PS4 owners getting screwed because they can't play games in 4K. /s

Obviously, games on the Pro will outperform games on the base unit. We knew this from the start. That was the reason for the Pro so games can perform better on it.

[ABizzel1]

If it's that big of a deal to you, then sell your current PS4 for $200 - $250, and upgrade to the Pro.

*Those games have been in development for the base model for YEARS.
*You're picking a quick single instances in the full game of the Last Guardian, compared to clip from E3.
*The Pro, a system with over 2x GPU performance and higher clocked CPU is going to run games better.
*Said video blogger games on PC as well, so he of all people should know this.

If you want better graphics / performance, then it take better hardware plain and simple.

[joab777]

Neither of these games would be any different in the PS4 had the Pro not been released.

[superchiller]

This article seems suspiciously similar to the many anti-Sony articles by Rashid Sayed on Gamingbolt.

And the blog writer's username is "Rashbandicoot".

Coincidence? I think not.

[kraenk12]

Nice find. Could Rashid Sayed be Rookie even?!

Edit: His Twitter says he's a huge fan of the Metal Gear franchise and family father. I doubt he would go to those desperate lengths as Rookie does.

[superchiller]

It's entirely possible. Rashid Sayed absolutely despises Sony, and is doing everything he can to smear their reputation. Fortunately he is nothing more than a sometimes annoying gnat buzzing around, easily ignored.

[masterfox]

Well I don't know about that, I'm at 75 % in Uncharted 4 and it has been the most stunning/astonishing/unbelieva ble gaming experience since decades! I'm not freaking joking!, dozens of times I keep saying I just can't believe we have reached this kind of visuals along side the awesome gameplay.

So in the end Uncharted 4 proves once more the insane tech capabilities of yours PS4,so you should be more than happy with it, I know in the long run I will get a PRO but for now Im just more than fine with my original PS4 :D

[slott]

If you get a PC costing as little as a PS4 base its _not_ gonna run anything at 30 FPS - keep that in mind when ranting...

[Weapon_of_choice]

My PS4 pro and SSD is arriving this week, so I say bring it on 😎

[ChronoJoe]

Just because the PRO version remedies performance issues does not mean that those performance issues would not have existed if the PRO did not. The Last Guardian was in development hell for a long time, and FFXV demonstrated its performance issues in its early demos.

If the PRO didn't exist, we'd just have these regular versions with their present performance issues.

If From released a patch for Bloodborne that remedied the performance issues, would regular PS4 owners be screwed over? There's a reason that these games don't retain stable frame rates on the core model and it's not because their not optimised for the system. The Last Guardian has modest graphics and has no right to have framerate related performance issues on any of its hardware, yet even on the PRO in 4K, it struggles to keep 30 frames.

The PRO is effectively masking the performance issues of a poorly optimised game, but there's nothing to suggest that the existence of the PRO has effectively caused these issues by encouraging the developers to intentionally neglect the base model. All of these games have been developed and optimised for the base PS4, and then enhanced for the PRO.

[ILostMyMind]

Oh, god!! So, The Last Guardian and Final Fantasy XV are the first games to have performance issues at launch? (¬¬) Sony is doomed! /s

[XStation4pio_Pro]

technology moves on... sorry. computing devices aren't chairs or books. they have a shelf life if you want to play on the best stuff and your $2-300 investment is small potatoes in an industry where people will spend and are prepared to spend A LOT of money for the latest and greatest. companies know that.

i think these mid console refreshes should have been the gen 8 launch consoles. i've certainly enjoyed mine but they were underpowered out of the gate considering what was coming in the near future (vr, 4k, HDR etc) and even mid-grade PCs could outpace them. ms and sony knew about these things but i assume they just wanted to keep the cost down. unfortunately that meant we got consoles that were out spec'd significantly by PCs and couldn't support the capable resolutions of new tvs - hell, sometimes they can't even render at the resolution of older TVs

[PurpHerbison]

As of right now, I don't feel like I am getting screwed cause a lot of the games in question are trash. However, if they mess with fighting games, I'm done. I can see it now, Tekken 7 45-60FPS on PS4 and locked 60 on PS4Pro. For anyone that actually plays fighting games, that would be a HUGE no no. Traditional fighting games need to be locked 60fps or you are royally getting screwed in every department.

[Derceto]

lol Wow. Who didn't see this coming?

People actually expect Sony, the company who notoriously can't wash it's hands fast enough of abandoned hardware, to continue full support of PS4? lol Wake up call folks.

[Silly gameAr]

What planet do you live on? That's the complete opposite of what Sony does with their hardware. I think you have them confused with someone else who cuts support of their hardware early.

[kraenk12]

It's called projection. It's a psychological way of reflecting one's own problems on someone else.

[senorfartcushion]

Yep, course They are

[Silly gameAr]

Give a few examples please?

[senorfartcushion]

Me

[phantomexe]

Err really ff15 running fine on ps4 so whats wrong.

[Tussin187]

So now all of a sudden games don't have performance issues on the OG. The Pro has nothing to do with the performance with the OG. We have plenty of examples on Digital Factory on performance of games. Guess what? Performance issues existed before the Pro. Now, someone just wants to point fingers. Does everything have to be a conspiracy now days? I swear people must have very short memories. This just in....ALL GAMES RAN PERFECTLY BEFORE THE PRO WAS RELEASED. Give me a break. Must be a slow news day.

[cd1]

Active rez like DOOM implements should make FR drops a thing of the past, i don't know if all engines are compatible though.

[DivineAssault]

That is a kick in the balls for the people who bought the slim or didnt upgrade to the pro.. I have one but if i didnt, i would be kinda pissed off about it.. However, back in the day those framerate issues happened all the time on PS1/Saturn yet people still played and enjoyed the games.. I must say Nintendo is the best with quality control on games.. Its very rare to find a game that has issues like that..

[yeahokwhatever]

Question: Does the game run flawlessly or at least better on a standard XB1 than a standard PS4? If so, then maybe it's the pro. If the XB1 version also slows down in areas, then one would maybe reason that the pro is the outlier, not the rule.

[jznrpg]

I have both and OG plays pretty good, newer games just need a patch or 2 like most games this gen

[game4funz]

Of course it does.
Now devs need to create for the pro anyways. So they'll obviously focus more on the pro then the standard.

The only barrier Sony put in place was simply to ensure devs created a version to push the pro. I believe they specifically said the pro version can't run worse then the standard. So
Now we begin to see the results.

Optimizations takes time and money. So why not optimize for the pro and not the standard.

It's really simple and easy to understand what would happen.

PS. For the fanboys.. Yes this includes the Scorpio. It's very likely the same will happen there.

[yeahright2]

#Colin was right

[Silly gameAr]

You guys are good. If there's a way people can scrape together some bs to turn into a negative, they'll find a way, and people will just jump on the band wagon, no questions asked.

[merciless]

How did this get through submissions?

[superchiller]

Simple: guaranteed clicks for N4G.

[objdadon]

So we're going to sit here and act like frame rates weren't all over the place before the ps4 pro😂 the fact that some games even run 3 to 4 frames better on the og ps4 is unacceptable as it is. That being said, I'm enjoying my ps4 pro.

[whitesoxfalife1976]

are you the same dude who have a youtube channel by that same name

[KidMakeshift]

I just finished The Last Guardian on the base model. Even though I thought the game was a huge disappointment it had a pretty steady frame rate throughout. Very few and brief drops in frame rate. Too much hyperbole on here.

[Angeljuice]

This is the "patch" generation. Games aren't being optimised until AFTER they go on sale.
It sucks if you buy games day 1 and finish them before the patch releases.

Xcom load times have been slashed by up to 2/3 with the latest update (I timed a load after a mission at 8 mins 57 secs with all territories owned on PS4 before the update, it is much better now).

Look at DriveClub before and after the updates, a completely different animal.

This gen I've mostly waited for games to be patched before buying them. It saves both money and frustration.

[brave27heart]

Nope. Not getting screwed over. Want to know why? Because the Last Guardian and FFXV were in development before the pro was even conceived. Which means the issues with them running poorly are due to their messy and disjointed development. Not the pro.

Since the pro is more powerful it's bound to run games better. But as a standard ps4 owner I don't feel screwed over.

[HeyNowChillax]

That will buy you about a year when we first start seeing standards and real benefits from the 85% majority 1080p TV owners. Yet oops, another more powerful system will be out. I think we just made a mistake. Don't get me wrong, I see the super sampling benefit and the added frames in games like Infamous, but there is no standard and that is the problem. I can run 1080p at much better quality on a GTX 970 4gb, no super sampling needed for aliasing with all the bells and whistles included.

[HeyNowChillax]

Will developers work as hard or smart as they have always done to optimize and squeeze every last bit of juice out of the PS4 to really perform when PS4 Pro has double the power available? Unlikely, why would they. Will developers actually use the power for the massive existing library to give the majority of 1080p panel owners the option to use the f***ing power and play games at 1080p 60fps as this generation should have began in the first place? Don't count on it. PS4 Pro = Sega 32X, at twice the price. It's a half step without standards.

[kraenk12]

Why would they?! I dunno...maybe because there are around 50 MILLION users out there with a base PS4?!

[HeyNowChillax]

Without standards, they're out playing golf. This would have been a MAJOR success if it improved most all of the existing library. Not a handful of games with different attributes improved, many of which are minor and not utilizing the available power. This mandate was like, hey people, just make a patch and improve something for launch, don't care what so we'll leave it up to you, thanks - Sony XOXO

[MoveTheGlow]

TLG is a good point for sure, but FFXV? Digital Foundry found that the frame timing (not the framerate) on every version of the game, from 4K to base PS4, was off - and that it might be a fixable glitch on Square's side, not a PS4 issue. Framerate itself didn't seem to be the issue. Granted, there's supposedly a 60fps Pro version on the way, but not seeing that at launch raises some eyebrows.

TLG was made with what seems to be sheer disregard for whatever hardware it was on, and given the dev cycle and Team Ico's track record, it makes sense, so yeah, adding some power to that game will help it out. But really, unless they're planning on making a TLG 60fps version, what does it matter when it comes to a Team Ico game? SotC reached Ocarina of Time-like framerates on the PS2 also, but all those games are slow-moving and forgiving when it comes to frame data.

[Bruh]

If anything, Pro owners are being screwed. I have more than twice the horsepower, yet I barely get an upgrade on a majority of supported titles? Not blaming Sony but developers haven't exactly laid the Pro's power out to display

[Tankbusta40]

I hope you enjoy your PRO, but to think devs are going to put more time into creating games for the box that has 2 percent of the market just isn't going to happen. OG ps4 sales are around 50 million, Pros maybe a million

[HeyNowChillax]

Thank you Sony for the new Sega 32X

[HeyNowChillax]

Exactly. PS4 Pro is Sega 32X. Twice the power, no standards to use it. They should have at least said. WELCOME ALL GAMERS, EVERY GAME YOU OWN WILL BE 1080p 60fs and THANK YOU for your continued support.

Aholes.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

Planned obsolescence. Forced upgrades. Etc. They do this with smart phones all the time.

[kraenk12]

Just for your info...the TLOU2 trailer was running on base PS4.

[MultiConsoleGamer]

That game, and many others, will look and run significantly better on the PS4 Pro.

Have you even seen Uncharted 4 or Infamous running on the Pro? The difference is pretty substantial. It was definitely worth the upgrade for me.

[Tankbusta40]

While, I haven't seen many problems with FFXV, of course the base ps4 users are going to eventually get screwed. The Pro has probably sold a little less than or close to a million units, while the OG ps4 is nearing 50 million. Sony has to convert more of their base and performance issues could be the way they try and do it.(Not claiming this would work, it could backfire horribly)

Or they could just be hoping the ps4s start breaking and people who want to game again will most likely put out the money for the Pro.

[Condemnedman]

hey don't worry base owners you can always upgrade 👍

[kraenk12]

And you can't. I mean you could. But you wouldn't buy something from Sony I guess.

[Condemnedman]

I have plenty of Sony stuff including 2 ps3 I don't hate Sony only the over the top fanboys the only reason I don't have a ps4 is the because of time restraints .

[Inzo]

You people are looking too deep into this and looking for some excuse to bash the PS4 and Sony. Iv been playing TLG for few hours now and although there are drops in frame rate its nothing major besides, personally I think its a software problem that is very fixable with a patch.

If the PS4 can run a technical and visual master piece like U4 without so much as a hiccup it just tells me that the problem is indeed with the software.

[BizarroUltraman]

I got a PS4 Pro not to worried about it. Matter of fact I wish they would stop holding the Pro owners back.

[Kurdishcurse]

lord maim ; yes it does. ive got a pro and ff15 is practically flawless on lite mode. only one drop in my 80 hour playthough. although the high settings has terrible frame pacing and slow downs. but i found the difference between high and lite to be minimal. only noticable difference was distant texture res and close object AA.

[Bobafett4ever]

Why is there a pic of Ben Affleck regarding this topic? I'm intrigued to know what is the correlation..

[Critic4l_Strik3]

What does OG mean (as in OG PS4) ?? Thx

[superchiller]

OG means "Orangutan Ganja", according to the urban dictionary. Definition: "Really strong weed that Asian Orangutans smoked with Budda. Now used as a marketing term universal adjective that has largely lost its original meaning. Used to describe strong weed (i.e., OG Kush, OG Sativa, OG Indica, etc.)."

[kraenk12]

OG means Original Gangsta (quote: Ice-T)

[PersonMan]

I sort of feel somewhat cheated on how some of the games are performing on the base model. It kinda sucks that us early adopters didn't know at the time that we were buying inferior hardware that would be out of date in a few years. Usually consoles last a long time and devs keep finding new ways to use it to it's fullest potential. Now, I feel like they can use the PS4 Pro to reach the target frame rate that they want, so there's less incentive to make the regular PS4 version look or run very good.

It's obviously not always the case. Look at Uncharted 4 for example. It looks identical on PS4 and PS4 Pro when running on a 1080p display. That tells you that they really did wonders for anti-aliasing in that game where you don't really need to downsample to get a good quality image. Also, the frame rate is rock solid on base PS4.

[MagicBeanz]

So because at one point during The Last Guardian the frame rate drops to 21 for what a millisecond I should be concerned? Mountain out of a mole hill, par for the course when it comes to Playstation.

[AntiZeal0t]

I have the original PS4 and I'm not having problems. I'm not a graphics whore, but a decent frame rate is expected. The day I get ripped off in terms of not being able to properly play a game that is advertised for my system, on my system, is the day I sell and start saving for a PC build.

[mochachino]

It's consoles, the longer the gen goes on the lower the average framerates get.

I remeber Crysis 2 and 3, TLOU, Dishonored, etc. all had frame rate drops into the low 20s. Better and better graphics on the same hardware eventually results in lower something.

[GamePeace]

No, why? I knew what I was buying and what to except. I don't feel screwed at all ... I'm satisfied enough with it.

[Dan_scruggs]

What did you think was gonna happen? That all the games were going to run exactly the same on both consoles?

[feraldrgn]

Perhaps the game would have always met that performance & you're actually getting a boost with your Pro?
Why don't you look at that positive rather than switching it into a negative?

[Segata]

I have 40 hours in FFXV and it's ran fine for me. 30FPS in a open world game is fine for me and it's been pretty solid.

[Spike20XX]

Not any single problems on my playthrough of Final Fantasy XV though.
Edit: With base ps4

[Tzuno]

Hahahahhh, it was planned, well take your drug then. You can be a fanboy as long as you want, these companies want only your money. and they have dirty ways of making you spend.

[MeteorPanda]

eh? ff15 works fine? l'm not playing it as l've heard theres content coming and l'd rather play it all at once.. but got to the first summon - no big issues that don't already exist on other ps4 games

[kenwonobi]

It goes both ways. If it doesn't run good on PS4 then it doesn't run as well on Xbox either. So Xbox will also gimp it's players until Scorpio comes out in the same regard. In which they wait a entire year for. Be careful how you attack PS4 Pro. As whatever you say about lesser versions also applies to Xbox ten fold because it's fans must wait a year doing the exact same thing.

[Kakashi Hatake]

Not at all, I had a launch PS4, but bought a Pro recently. Pro owners pay a premium so I don't see the problem. It's nothing that's being forced on anyone.

[NextGenCeo]

I have no problem with my PS4 on FFVXV. I did not play Last Guardian yet but they will patch and solve performance issue until i got.

So no screwed. Xbox one owners screwed long time ago with Xbox slim performance gap between old Xbox One. Useless article again.
(Esl guy here so sorry for English)

[SirCharles]

Uhhhhh, FFXV is a graphically intensive open world game and The Last Guardian has been in development hell for over half a decade and also has some pretty complicated looking feather physics going on with Trico. Base ps4 owners simply own a much weaker system.

[Babadook7]

Nope. Pro did not effect 10 year old games; Last Guardian, FF XV.

[hahaha]

Well it could be the other way round. Because the developers have to ensure their games can be run on both base and Pro machines, the developers would always hold back for the lesser tech base machine.

[ASBO-5]

Nice flame/click-bait piece. "Already screwing over", Please...

[BenRC01]

Called this when announced. Pro will be the standard game and ps4 will be the gimped version.

[DafunkyRebel]

give it a year and they'll secretly replace all the launch pros with new 2.0 pros on the low key, and it will work perfectly. In the meantime just save your money and don't get a pro until next year around November. Same thing with the 360 with they were red ringing and microsoft lowkey released those falcons or whatever that had much lower chances of brinking

[Malacath]

It's pretty obvious that if the ps4 pro is more powerful it should run games better. It doesn't mean us standard ps4 owners are getting screwed.

If the frame rate was the same on both consoles for 1080P then it would be the ps4 pro owners that are getting screwed

[DethWish]

FFXV runs fine on the ps4, at least up to chapter 6 (I haven't gotten further yet)

[DA_SHREDDER]

I'm done buying games or consoles day one, ff15, xbone, PS4, practically every game and console I ever bought was worth waiting for, just look at a game like titanfall, easily one of the best shooters this year got a price cut a couple weeks after launch. Don't get me wrong, I know that's what happens when you buy anything at launch, but unlike the good old days, everything gets a reboot or discount just a month or so after something, I mean at the very least buy used on amazon and save. I've lots thousands of dollars just to get a console or game day one