Final Fantasy XV - The whine about Cindy Aurum´s boobs and looks

Just recently it came to my (Robin Ek, TGG) attention that people have started to complain about Cindy Aurum´s looks and cleavage in "Final Fantasy XV". So here´s my take on the matter.

[PhoenixUp]

It always amazes me how people got so offended by Cindy's attire but then paid no attention to Gladiolus showing off his entire chiseled torso

[TGG_overlord]

Thank you, you hit the bulls eye right away.

[Simon_the_sorcerer]

Imo, the SJWs are just a bunch of hypocrites. I bet that the female SJWs watch Game of Thrones to see some male studs in-action.

[Muzikguy]

@Simon

Yes I think so too. Actually I believe that in most cases the people that complain are just as guilty as the ones they're complaining about.

[_-EDMIX-_]

@sim- it's not really just that it's that the people who are portraying themselves as that keep finding stupid non-issues to talk about.

The actual people that bring awareness to diversity are not out here finding such strange reasons to bring up such things. They would actually be bringing up all the instances where a company is over sexualizing a character for the sake of marketing a product.

In my opinion the end goal should be to allow the Creator to create what they intended as opposed to a marketing company trying to purposely have a specific image displayed to sell units.

So I won't say SJW are that, who you're referring to is anything but they might be making those claims masquerading as that but they definitely do not actually stand for truth social justice in regards to seeking diversity.

ie somebody who truly represents that should be against the over sexualization of any character if it was not intended by the original creators.

ie Square throws away the original drawings of this character and instead use something more sexual simply to get sales.

[bluefox755]

@EDMIX What is wrong with that? Game companies have been using exaggerated versions of characters since video game tech became advanced enough to make characters that look like actual people, and movies have been doing the same thing for much longer. It's fantasy, people like to look at things that are appealing to the eyes. Why do you think "The Rock" is in so many movies? It ain't his acting chops. And why is it even an issue?

[bluefox755]

http://67.media.tumblr.com/...

[Rachel_Alucard]

Their logic is that sexy ripped males are a power fantasy for males and sexy fit females are a sexual fantasy. Basically, the concept of fantasy defeats these people.

[Eonjay]

This is bullshit. I have heard no one complaining about Cindy and most likely neither have any of you. Stop following people who follow SJW just so they can report on them. I have half a dozen folks in my immediate circle playing FF 15 and no one has heard or said anything about Cindy's boobs. This is a fake issue. No one is complaining. I feel like sometimes these guys go out of their way to find SJWs.

[Simon_the_sorcerer]

Sexy males is okay, females, nope.

[TGG_overlord]

That´s how it is, that´s why they don´t care about all the male characters in pretty much every fighting, action, sport and beat-em-up game since the 80s.

[Littil_Devil]

It´s been like that in the world of games for a very long time now...

[The 10th Rider]

It's not just games. Just look at the success of Magic Mike and 50 Shades of Grey.

[_-EDMIX-_]

Lol Kratos rarely even wear any clothes through the God of War Series this man is completely utterly ripped lol

[Nu]

If I try to be sexy I'll be arrested

[Simon_the_sorcerer]

They never do, that´s why male nudity and whatnot is okay with them.

[TGG_overlord]

You should check this video out xD
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Littil_Devil]

If someone ever got around to make a DOA Extreme game with just males, then I bet that no one would care a single bit about it.

[Goldby]

Anita should be taken out to the back of the barn and sent on her way.

She is part of the reason Extreme-SJW is so prevalent in gaming. and by extreme im talking the Feminazi extreme

[_-EDMIX-_]

@gold- I definitely don't like her cherry-picking characters and not focusing on other aspects of gaming but I cannot also say that she is wrong in the respect of some of the things she's brought up.

I don't like the way that she's going about it as she makes it very difficult to really tackle real solutions. The biggest issue regarding gaming today is not simply just the lack of diversity it's technically the lack of control that writers and directors have over their games.

Any Creator should be free to create their games how they see fit the biggest issue I have is when a marketing company comes in and is making decisions on demographic in other variations of the game simply to sell more units that was not intended by the Creator.

We know this to be true. We can't ask creators to forcefully added demographics just for the sake of it, art is something personal and subjective but what we can do is make it clear that we do not want our games being altered by marketing companies.

The biggest issue I have is with that.

If somebody wants to make their game with a specific demographic that's completely up to them, but the real problem comes from when Publishers bringing marketing companies to intervene with the game's Direction simply for marketing purposes.

In my personal opinion that is what her crusade should have been about not attacking creators.

[Goldby]

she has brought up some good points, i feel though that those points, at least to us gamers, aren't given the spot light that "showing off female butts in advertisement" gets.

Her approach isn't the good either,a s you stated, she cherry picks, and that isn't right. if you are going to bring up that Catwoman has latex butt v2.0 bring up Nightwing and his glorious buttock. or Nathan drake when comparing to Lara Croft. both buts can be seen. but only one is focused on.

also she needs to do more research for her "analysis" as she stated you are awarded points for hitman and killing stripper when it isn't even part of the mission, but because we are in a strip joint and theres women who are strippers, agent 47 is seen as an evil man out to kill stripper when in fact he was there to take out their pimp.

[bluefox755]

@EDMIX "but the real problem comes from when Publishers bringing marketing companies to intervene with the game's Direction simply for marketing purposes."

Why is this a problem? The publishers are footing the bill. Of course they will have some influence in the creative process. There are ways around this however, do a kickstarter, publish independently, find a publisher that gives you more creative freedom, work your way up to rockstar or ND level and get creative carte blanche, etc. If I go get a tattoo, I have the right to say to the artist: "I want it exactly this way", or I can say "Here's an idea I have, you're the creative one, you run with it". Some publishers do this, but when it's their money, it's their call. Also, it's not like devs go into these relationships blindly. They know what to expect going in.

[Littil_Devil]

Every single female that I know have ZERO problems with Cindy (or any of the other female characters in FFXV). So it´s always the same group of people who whine about stuff like this (there are tons of female Cindy cosplayers out there...).

[_-EDMIX-_]

Errr

I'm a huge Final Fantasy 15 supporter and I definitely don't like the over-sexualization of Cindy and I felt it was a bit ridiculous and exaggerated.

That goes the same for gladious bizarre washboard abs being half-naked for the majority of the game lol

That man need some damn clothes, out here looking like an American Eagle model lol

[DragonKnight]

She isn't oversexualized. I love this idea that there is somehow an appropriate level, one never outright stated (because it can't be since it's subjective) and you only know when something has gone "over" that level. She's showing cleavage, she isn't nude, don't be a prude. And also, here's the important part, she is not a real person.

[Goldby]

just because some of us like looking at gladious washboard abs doesn't mean it offended. Im mainly offended by Cindy because, for how dirty her face is, there is absolutely no mess whatso ever on her jacket. being a mechanic years ago that is litteraly impossible to do, and i expect more realism from Final Fnatsy games...

Oh we were talking about her boobs, Ya there are good to look at, might practice my jabs and punches of those bags

[PhoenixUp]

Omg me & my were making the same comment about her clean clothes and dirty face as well

[_-EDMIX-_]

Lol agreed.

I think they could have made her has a pretty fancy-looking jumpsuit to convey more so that she was a mechanic. I just don't know who's going to be fixing cars half-naked like that lol

[Goldby]

@Edmix

i know, huge chance of burning her skin there, or getting oil on her skin (cancerous btw)

[paradigmfellow]

The difference is that Cindy is a mechanic. Not even a male mechanic would be that revealing to do the kind of work he has to do. Cindy was purposely made to be objectified. Gladiolus was too, but due to our patriarchal society, it is not being addressed because he is doing something that is normally associated with that kind of body (based on our society point of view); fighting. Which still doesn't make it right.

[bluefox755]

Nonsense, I have seen many mechanics shirtless. Sure, they aren't doing this at corporate chains like Midas, but small town, mom and pop garages? Absolutely. It gets very hot in the summer, especially working on cars. None of that even matters though because it's FANTASY, it's not supposed to match real life. If it doesn't suit your tastes, move onto something that does rather than trying to change it for the rest of us who have zero problems with her cleavage or the bare chest of Gladiolus.

[DragonKnight]

Argument ended with zero credibility once the term "patriarchal society" was used. We live in a gynocentric society.

[cash_longfellow]

One dislike...one extremist SJW lmao!

[trooper_]

It's hilarious.

[Taero]

Didn't you know? That's for the guys so we can feel totally manly, women don't like looking at buff guys /s

[DarXyde]

Beat me to it.

It's very true. There's something for everyone!

[_-EDMIX-_]

Lol

I like how everyone was just ignoring that this man legitimately can catch pneumonia.

She's wearing this outside but we don't know how she sleeps or how she dresses up at home, we're literally playing with a character that basically almost always has his shirt off.

[DragonKnight]

I like how you're ignoring that she lives in a desert. You can also change Gladio's clothing at any point.

[CrystalFantasy]

Gladio's chest is magnificent. Something to aspire to, at the very least.

[UltraNova]

Yeah...he is hulking mass of triangles presented in pixels...dont aspire digital creations. Get out, hit the gym and see what real work and sweat can achive. Those people you can aspire to.

[k2d]

A more suiting comparison would be them having Gladiolus flaunting his ass crack though! lol

[Godmars290]

Its because feminist actively dismiss anything having to do with men. Use the excuse that women have been disadvantaged and objectified for so long that when such happen to men it can be ignored.

[UltraNova]

In 10-20 years from now Men will be seriously oppressed and sidelined. We are doomed and its all our fault that we, today allow feminazis to thrive and keep influencing the media, society and young generations under the false pretence of gender equality.

Its sad because just as when we civilaised men (most of us) accepted and embraced gender equality its extremist women and their simple minded supporters that try to derail this monumental shift in modern society.

[Trash_Report]

Most of the country are conservatives due to religion and history of this country (USA), it's why as ridiculous as it was, Trump winning the presidency being the best proof.
People blaming it on SJW but it's actually just how America has always been.

[Kombatologist]

To those defending Cindy's look, would you feel the same way about the male cast if they were running around in this? http://bit.ly/2h4zl5E

Serious question.

[bluefox755]

That's a silly comparison. Cindy is showing a little cleavage, and somehow that is equal to men completely naked except for their penis being covered? A better comparison would be Gladiolus who has his bare chest exposed, the male chest is something women do indeed sexualize. So why is it different?

@Kombatologist Which was?

[Kombatologist]

I think you missed my point.

[DragonKnight]

@Kombatologitst: That's because you don't have a point. You created a false extreme. But to answer your question, There are some games you should look at. Games like Cho Aniki or... Succulent.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

Or Rinse and Repeat.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Kombatologist]

You wouldn't be defending this if it were an overly-sexualized male people were complaining about. You guys act like SJWs are the only ones who complain and act hypocritical, but who complained about "emo" Dante in the DmC reboot? Who complained when Capcom patched out Chun-Li's boob physics in SFV? Who complained about Watch Dogs 2 for having a minority as the main character? Who complained about a black soldier being on the cover of Battlefield 1? It goes on and on. I'm not saying characters like Cindy shouldn't exist. Just don't complain when a game features something or someone YOU don't like.

People have become too defensive, judgmental, and self-entitled.

Point enough for you?

[PFFT]

Cause all those crying about it are nothing but raging women hating flamers.

[NecoTehSergal]

Cause men being objectified don't bother beta-cuck males, SJW's and Feminists, only that women, the special-class citizens of the New World cannot be depicted in a sexualized light or looked down as an object - it's fine if it happens to men, because men are disposable. Duhh.

[Nu]

I whine about the horrible accent lol

[PhoenixUp]

What in tarnation is wrong with the accent

[dillydadally]

While I normally agree with this sentiment, COME ON! The fact that there's a scantily clad woman in a video game doesn't bother me so much as the fact that it's just INCREDIBLY out of place. You go to a mechanic and she walks out in stripper clothing, bronzed and oiled? It just makes no sense. And not a single person in your party, which normally can't shut up, says a thing about this woman that walks out with her bra showing?

Doesn't it bother anyone else how out of place it is or just the sheer level of slap-you-in-the-face, immersion ruining fan service it is?

[Majin-vegeta]

Csn we like just get hit by an asteroid already??_-_

Little off topic but I just saw this.
http://vgleaks.com/final-fa...

[Simon_the_sorcerer]

Well, that would sort out that problem for sure :P What, really? Nice =)

[TGG_overlord]

I´ve been told by quite a few as of lately that humanity needs to be rebooted...

[Muzikguy]

A collection huh? 🤔

[ninsigma]

If that crystal complete edition doesn't come to Europe ima be so mad!

[_-EDMIX-_]

Annnnnnnnnnd poor!

[Nu]

AVivi Asteroid or a regular one?

[Simon_the_sorcerer]

I really love the fact that the "you know who" give zero damn about the four main male characters...As if they would be less sexy and attractive than Cindy is.

[TGG_overlord]

All of them are pure eye candy, but "they" don´t want to talk about that part.

[DragonKnight]

This is the reason.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media...

[Kalebninja]

if it just came to your attention then you're an idiot. There were complaints all the way back before episode Duscae and Tabata even addressed them. waste of an article, practically two years late to the party.

[TGG_overlord]

What are you talking about? This episode took place for the last couple of days, Hell, Josh even streamed FFXV via Twitch and banned both male and female players who pointed out his bs.

[PeaSFor]

im soo outraged at the outrage, because THINK ABOUT THE CHILDRENS!!!!!

Boycott shampoo, demand real poo.

[Littil_Devil]

The guy can´t read I take it, so don´t get too angry at him.

[Goldby]

PeaSFor

Thank you for that laugh

[Simon_the_sorcerer]

I guess that you´re not the smartest of cats since you can´t read all that well. No, this event took place just recently.

[TGG_overlord]

Don´t bother with that person, he or she always gets really salty about topics such as this one.

[Littil_Devil]

That dude always goes after posts of this kind, so don´t waste your time on him.

[Kalebninja]

Im not talking about the event, he said it just came to his attention that people ave started complaining, when people had been complaining well over a year and a half ago.

[Nara_shikamaru]

The guy is actually right my friend, people have been complaining about cindy and her appeal since the duscae demo

[Littil_Devil]

The only waste here is you, so please, move along.

[Kalebninja]

eat a dick

[annoyedgamer]

Repeat after me: President Donald J Trump

[phantomexe]

World we live in today says if your a guy your evil and a rapist. That's right guys don't look at a women anywhere other then her eyes. It don't matter phoenix women are allowed to have that your not. I'm sorry it's new age

[Simon_the_sorcerer]

That sounds a bit it, yes...And it´s really sad, because far from all guys are evil and bad. Well, that would explain why so many guys are down and blue nowadays...

[TGG_overlord]

It´s the MSM that pumps out that narrative and those lies.

[Kabaneri]

@TGG_overlord
I wouldnt worry that ship is sinking fast.

[bluefox755]

It certainly explains why fewer men are getting married. Feminism has successfully made both men and women far less happy.

[TGG_overlord]

In Sweden it´s more or less a crime to be a male (if you´re a straight white male, it´s even worse). So, yeah...

[Ravenor]

Hyperbole much shiiiit.

[InMyOpinion]

That's a load of crap.

[Mr Lahey]

Yeah, no.. But Yes, Sweden is a progressive and feminist country and some "men", like you, dont like it. I guess you are a straight white male..

[DragonKnight]

Dude, a Swedish guy made an article apologizing for being male. Sorry but it's not hyperbole. Sweden is screwed up for straight white men.

[GrubsterBeater]

No, our world says that if you're a straight, white male, then you are a misogynistic, xenophobic, racist who promotes rape culture, white privilege, and are discriminating minorities and women subconsciously.... and you're a bigot, and you need to accept black lives matter, and then hate Trump because reasons, and listen to the mainstream media like a good sheep or we will call you all of these things until your career and/or image is completely defamed.

[Kashima]

i want next FF with full attractives female party so sensitive feminist can suck it!!

[TGG_overlord]

You know what? That sounds like a great idea ;)

[Simon_the_sorcerer]

I bet that the female gamers will love that idea as well :3

[Simon_the_sorcerer]

We should start an online petition for that xD

[Pancit_Canton]

Final Fantasy X-2? Look what happened to that game.

[mrtopramen1]

FF X-2 was so bad I totally agree with you @pancit_canton

[Pintheshadows]

I find it funny that so many are up in arms over this.

The cosplay community (people that actually buy these games) are going to be all over Cindy, just like they were all over Moxxi from Borderlands. We need to stop giving so much credence to people who simply don't like games, but force themselves upon them anyway.

And sexiness is not a crime.

[PhoenixUp]

You mean FFX-2?

[PFFT]

SE should make this happen. Nothing but sexy females killing things in thongs and G-strings!

[CorndogBurglar]

I wonder what would happen if they made the female characters fat slobs. Would people still complain?

I mean, I don't remember people complaining about that game Fat Princess.

[Kashima]

i don't mind cute chubby party :3

[Simon_the_sorcerer]

Dear mother of god :S They just can´t resist to whine about everything and nothing...

[Ravenor]

So any other articles catch your eye or do you enjoy repeating the same thing over and over again?

[Mr-Dude]

They don't have anything other to whine about in their pathetic little life

[Ravenor]

So you whine about them whining? You guys are truly pinnacles of human achievement we should all strive to be.

[Mr-Dude]

@ravenor
You annoy me, like always. Don't talk to me..
Go play whiteknight elsewhere

[Ravenor]

You don't even know my position you simple minded pleb. You're both broken records.

For the record though,this "issue" with Cindy has already been and gone months ago. Some people complaining about cleavage isn't going to change anything. The article was unnecessary and does nothing but attempt to incite people like you.

[Summons75]

I thought we got over this more than a year ago...

Who cares what her outfit is and in an age where there is an admitted sexual predator going into the White House, I think you SJWs have a lot more to worry about than a fictional character set in a fictional world that I guarantee you have never and will never play.

[Ravenor]

That's the point, this was dealt with months ago. What's the point in bringing up a few people still bleating about her tits?

Like, I wouldn't have even known this cropped up again if it wasn't for this article.

[Muzikguy]

I don't mind. She could work on my car any day! 😇

[Pintheshadows]

Exactly what I said when I first saw her. I am a filthy disgusting white male though.

[Muzikguy]

Yeah, me too. How dare I think this way or say things like that about a girl. I mean, SJWs don't ever think like that....

[Littil_Devil]

Same here ;)

[FullmetalRoyale]

I dig how she looks. My issue with her is how she never shuts up when I'm trying to customize the Regalia. ;)

[Littil_Devil]

Well, no one is perfect I guess :P

[FullmetalRoyale]

Lol

[PhoenixUp]

Would you prefer if she stayed in the kitchen

[Goldby]

her face wouldn't be as diry then, and give reason to the bikini top, not that we need one for when she is working on the car

[FullmetalRoyale]

I'm plenty happy with the service that she offers me. My issue is how many times I go back and forth between options, thus she keeps repeating herself.
And yes, I'm sure she'd look great in the kitchen, too.

[SilverClock]

"How bout them decals??"

[FullmetalRoyale]

Welcome to my hell... ;) haha

[senorfartcushion]

It's clearly there for a pervy reason. There is no practical reason for her to look like she does.

[Ravenor]

It's a video game, who cares about practicality? Some women have cleavage, some women have rocking asses and some don't.

I really hate this discussion, it's gotten so long in the tooth. Most dudes, aren't monsters who view women as less than them or sexual play things that's just common sense. A video game character in no way reflects on anyone as a man or a woman. Can we all just PLEASE stop!?

Like honestly TGG of you see someone having a fit over this. Even a group of them, jist ignore it. A) This was a point of conflict months ago and it was put to rest. B) No ones going to pay them any mind if they don't get put on blast every time they say something you dont like.

[drizzom]

They are in a blistering desert. Have you even noticed how many times the party complains about how hot it is? And even if there wasn't a practical reason, its a game. They dont truly NEED a reason. Not for clothing choices, not for anything they decide to put in a game. Some realism is nice but it doesn't have to be a 1:1 representation of real life. Thats what makes seeing the nature of free expression in games so fun. They can create whatever the hell they want.

[InTheZoneAC]

even if some people have a legit counter, you'll get more disagrees simply because those types of people roam this site, it is what it is.

[senorfartcushion]

Any reason for can be combated by her dad justbeing there lol

[stokedAF]

I'm more annoyed by her southern accent. She was hot as hell until she opened her mouth.

[PhoenixUp]

Don't you know? Apparently everyone in rural areas have southern accents

[SilverClock]

That'sum dadgum hogwash I tell ya h'what. *sips beer*

[pyroado]

Lmao bro i felt the exact same way. She looked sexy until her accent kicked in

[Razzer]

You guys are funny. You would all do her. Accent or not. :-P

[Pintheshadows]

What about Dino?

[OtakuDJK1NG-Rory]

That why I am playing the game in Japanese after hearing her voice when my older brother was playing before me.

[Littil_Devil]

@Simon_the_sorcerer "Imo, the SJWs are just a bunch of hypocrites. I bet that the female SJWs watch Game of Thrones to see some male studs in-action."

Dude...Guess three times why females even watch boxing, MMA, WWE and whatnot? It´s to super fit males in-action :P

[Littil_Devil]

@Muzikguy "Yes I think so too. Actually I believe that in most cases the people that complain are just as guilty as the ones they're complaining about."

I bet that most of the female SJWs love to watch movies with hot guys and to play games with sexy male studs all day long, but that´s a totally different story right? ;)

[Horseygamer]

the Japs perceive women in a different way we do in the west

[Muzikguy]

I agree but this game is more western influenced than any. It's purely to sell more copies and to sexualize her form for the player. It's ok though. These things will always come up and they really do get old

[Anzil]

Hahaha

[stokedAF]

No they don't. I'm almost positive that Cindy character is based on Daisy Duke from the Dukes of Hazzard show. A sexy female that used her "gifts" to manipulate males. She was also an ass kicking tomboy.

The Dukes of Hazzard show was pretty much shunned out of existence because 2016 SJWs got triggered by the confederate flag on the hood of their car in a 1970s show. These people should not be given any credence. They are fools with nothing better to do. I think square attacked two different SJWs with one character lol.

[mrtopramen1]

Makes no sense to me. Why are they complaining about Cindy's boobs and looks. There are freaking 4 main male characters that are handsome as heck. You don't see us saying, "look at Noctis he is too hot" or "look at Gladiolus abs, it is too much." Also, would they rather have Cindy overweight and dying of cancer to make them feel better about themselves?

This is why we can't have nice things. Square Enix put 10 years in this game, at least they can do is give some respect to the devs and artists that poured their hearts out.

I can see it now. Final Fantasy 16 will have four main male characters dying of cancer and looking like trash, and a returning character, named Cindy, that is overweight and dying of HIV, because someone complained that she was too hot. LOOOOOOL

[Goldby]

ya but... did u see that Camera Prompto Holds.. That shit should be banned. /s

[PaleMoonDeath]

F*ck em, we like boobs, we'll get boobs, glorious game btw finished it yesterday!

[slappy508]

Hopefully there are some Cindy cos players out there that will upload their pics en masse onto the Internet and trigger these white kuck Sjws that are offended

[DefenderOfDoom2]

So that is why Conan O'Bryan said Final Fantasy 15 is for people who are looking for blue balls. Very funny episode from Clueless Gamer .

[jokerisalive]

That is the result of the feminist movement spewing over into the video games industry. These people whine about anything and everything that in their opinion 'offends' them. If pixels in a video game have you that upset you need to get a life real bad. Another thing is its cleavage nothing more. If it was nudity then there is a reason for someone to say something but she is covered up for the most part. People just need something to whine about in today's society where everyone is so fragile and ready to call out anyone that 'upsets' them.

[RememberThe357]

I find it funny how willing people are to be offended because other people are offended. Get over yourselves.

Honestly though, Cindy is any annoying and largely pointless character. Her entire reason for being seems to be sexuality. That's really my only issue. I hate shallow bullsh!t.

I understand the appearance of hypocrisy with the SJW crowd, but in the history of the world, men were never under the numb of women. Women were treated like property for thousands of years, so the context of objectifying women has a bit more to it than objectifying men. I know context can blow up preconceived notions but it's important.

[Ravenor]

We are speaking to people who are either teens or have only heard of the fabled vagina in myths and legends. Context and history has no place here.

[RememberThe357]

Touché

[DivineAssault]

When will this garbage stop?!?! I hope devs dont pay them any attention and continue doing whatever they do.. SJW's need to stay TF away from games and anything else for that matter..

[rainslacker]

It's Final Fantasy. Their characters are always sexy and their attire is always flamboyant and often revealing. It's really nothing new in the series.

[zodiac909]

ONLY on N4G will you still find articles that complain about women looking too much like women. Cause we all know that women are supposed to be ugly and revolting these days..... ;))

[DillyDilly]

So what happens if developers simply take women out of games completely ? Would they still whine ? & I bet the women whining dont even play games

[Christopher]

I find it funny that about the only time I hear someone complaining about sex appeal in video games is when this site or one of a few others responds to some random person hidden on the Internet. For all those claims about how this stuff shouldn't be an issue in video games, you guys sure do a good job of making it news where it otherwise would go completely overlooked.

I guess it's kind of like having a job of finding fire hazards. You would be out of a job if you didn't find them and make news of it each time you found it. Bad analogy, but I hope you get the gist.

[Ravenor]

They don't even realize they do it.

[rainslacker]

People were complaining or or making their arguments quite often before this kind of article was common. It was a common topic on Gamasutra, and actually discussed civilly before the whole "gamers are dead" nonsense.

I hate to bring it up, but the GG policies on N4G made it so very few of these kinds of articles actually make it on this site anymore. Not sure if that's a good thing or not, but it wasn't as uncommon as it is now with the bi-weekly TGG, "people are upset" articles. OTOH, I do think many of these kinds of articles have devolved into random pedantic nonsense since GG/SJW stuff became a thing and it moved outside the realm of general discussion.

[DragonKnight]

If your job is to find fire hazards, then your job is to notice little things and report them as needing to be addressed. Left unaddressed and you could end up with a 5 alarm fire that took everything someone spent their lives building reduced to ash.

We have to addresw these complaints about sex appeal because social and cultural marxism is insidious. It is a long game played subtly until you reach the point of Sweden or my country of Canada where we are closer to thought crimes being real every single day. If an equal measure of resistance is not made, one day all video games will have species neutral, agender, polyamourous, unicornkin, grey coloured blocks to spare people from being triggered. And even that will trigger someone until we have to game with concepts instead of characters.

[DragonKnight]

You're an hour north of me and haven't heard about Bill C-16 or Jordan Peterson? Pronouns are now law. If you work in any public sector, or are hiring anyone, you MUST use whatever made up pronoun some Tumblrina demands you use or you are guilty of violating the Charter of Human Rights. If you're brought in front of a Human Rights Tribunal, your financial life and possibly your freedom is done.

Further, Canada is attempting to make, and in some cases succeesing, gender parity quotas federal law.

So the Canadian government has told us not only what we cannot say, but what we MUST say and is deciding for us who we have to hire. Opposition to this is heavily punished and you think thought crimes aren't even the realm of possibility. Visit downtown Toronto sometime and tell me otherwise. I even saw a middle aged woman start calling multiple men sexist because they refused her advances. Live the reality before dismissing it as fiction.

[Christopher]

Actually. A fire hazard person reports only the issues internally, not publically. This stuff, which has existed in every single other medium for decades if not centuries, is normal. It happens every day, but doesn't stop games, movies, or books that defy these thoughts from being worked on and created every single day.

I stand by my statement that articles like this make a bigger issue out of someone making a comment on the Internet rather than focusing on issues like Australia and Germany's ban on content.

[Ravenor]

You told me anecdotal evidence wasn't admissable once.

http://sds.utoronto.ca/blog...

Anyways, what Bill C 16 does the province already does with our own charter of human rights. It's the federal government catching up to things that have been in place for years.

I had a black guy start screaming I was racist because I refused his Black History Month pamphlet at Dundas Square. It was a shock, but do you think his remarks followed me? Do you think anyone is watching that woman you described like "Yeah, she's right". No, no one is and no one cares.

You really need to understand Canada already doesn't have a specific freedom of speech and expression. We didn't when you were born, and we don't now. So what is it that you're actually upset about? If it's limits on our speech and expression than you've got lots of other shit to worry about than whether you need to call the barista something else entirely.

[DragonKnight]

In response to your link I provide you with the debate recently held at U of T. Pay special attention to the hypocrisy coming from Prof. Peterson's opponents, as well as his no less than 3 statements from law experts.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

"Anyways, what Bill C 16 does the province already does with our own charter of human rights. It's the federal government catching up to things that have been in place for years."

Which A) Actually reinforces my point and B) Doesn't help your position.

"I had a black guy start screaming I was racist because I refused his Black History Month pamphlet at Dundas Square. It was a shock, but do you think his remarks followed me? Do you think anyone is watching that woman you described like "Yeah, she's right". No, no one is and no one cares. "

Whether or not his comments follow you is not the issue. The issue is pervasiveness, encroachment, subtle lateral motion in policy. What the woman said is not so important as the fact that she can freely say it and could possibly have people take her seriously and cause problems. Like the recent Hugh Mungus problem with Zarna Joshi who yelled that a guy who made a dad joke sexually harassed her and started gaining support for her lie. Luckily Mr. Hugh Mungus was able to leave the area before anything could happen to him, but the point is that it was already starting to happen. Or how about Lauren Southern from Rebel Media being attacked by trans people, openly in public, and absolutely nothing happening to said attacker? In fact the only thing that DID happen was to another trans person lying about that event and many other occurrences at Prof. Peterson's rally.

"You really need to understand Canada already doesn't have a specific freedom of speech and expression. We didn't when you were born, and we don't now."

Don't attempt to lecture me on Canada's Charter of Human Rights or Ontario's Human Rights Code. I know my rights in those regard inside and out. The very first clause allows for restriction on freedom of expression, but that clause itself has restrictions on its use. The problem is that the restrictions are not being applied and the specific language, that being restricting what CAN be expressed, is not a law stating what MUST be expressed. The other issue is that discrimination has become a blanket term, far too vague to have any meaning. Not calling someone by a pronoun is not discrimination, but Canadian law has made it so. And THAT's what should be worrying everyone. Because if NOT calling someone Unicornkin when they go to get their license is discrimination today, how long before choosing not even to interact with a person for any reason at all then too becomes discrimination? If you're not paying attention to the landscape of Canadian law and where "progressivism" is taking it, you have no place in implying that I'm overreacting.

[LoveSpuds]

I have to say that it did stand out to me that the character was overtly sexualised, not so much because of her clothing, but by the way she was posed when cleaning the windscreen after refueling the car. That is why, in my opinion, its not comparable to the main characters showing their sixpack; while the males are shown as dudes kicking arse there is Cindy flashing her norks for the titilation of the player.

I know this wont be popular but you are kidding yourself if you think that the characters design, from her clothing to her poses hasn't been done to titilate the gamer.

Nonetheless, I can't say that I was offended by it and therin lies the point for me. It does not make you a bad person if you are not offended or even enjoy these portrayals of women, its in the male DNA to fine women attractive. Those who deny there is any sexualisation going on are only kidding themselves, they should be comfortable admitting that she has been designed that way intentionally.

Only then can you move on and understand why some women gamers might feel slighted (and I am not talking about the extremists here). I have a daughter who plays videogames, she tends to like story based games and I have spoken to her about this in the past. She said she does notice it on occasion but it doesnt bother her because after all, all the teeny bopper bands she loved as a teenager are generally sexualised teenage boys aimed at making girls swoon.

She said that as games develope and muture as a medium it will all balance out as it has in movies and on TV. She points to examples like Elena in Uncharted, Ellie, Triss, Beyond Two Souls, Walking Dead, Life is Strange as examples of games where there are positive examples.

[bluefox755]

Yes, men and women are sexualized differently, men are less subtle. This doesn't make it any less real. Look at any romance novel cover, and then tell me a bare chest isn't 100% sexualized for women. And yes, they likely were done to titilate, but who cares? Games are supposed to be escapism, and most men like, or at least, don't take issue with scantily clad ladies, even in digital form.

On the other hand, I think I can fairly say that most lady gamers don't take issue with bare chested, or otherwise sexualized men. Why? Because, like most men, they know it's just fantasy. They know a little chest on a man or cleavage on a woman doesn't cause any real life harm any more than shooting people in call of duty causes murder.

I'm assuming you're a man, mainly because in my experience, men tend to take offense over this stuff on a woman's behalf far more than women are actually bothered by it, but forgive me if I'm wrong. As a man, are you offended or "slighted" by bare chested or sexualized males in video games? If yes, why? If no, then how could you presume to see women as equal, whilst holding them to a lower standard than yourself? If you're not bothered by digital escapism, why would you assume women are as well? Unless you think they are more sensitive, or too fragile to handle something like that.

[LoveSpuds]

Hey buddy, excellent post back, this exactly how I think these kinds of stories should be discussed and looked at, with a sensible conversation.

I agree with almost everything you say squire, reading my comment back I can see that I might have appeared to be justifying people being offended by the inclusion of Cindy. This wasnt really my intention, I was hoping to raise the point that its more sensible to acknowledge that the character is hyper sexualised and that moreover, it's entirely acceptable to enjoy that fact.

As I point out, bands aimed at teenage girls are always sexualised, the latest movie hunk will show some skin to sell a movie (maybe a gratuitous shot of a naked bum if you are a lucky lady). The point is, it happens but it isn't necessarily wrong and it certainly isn't evil.

I just think there needs to be a more sensible discussion about the issue, denying it happens is not the solution. I personally have never been offended by a videogame character but I do notice it from time to time, thats all I am saying.

I would go on to suggest that you should consider the context of the game the character is appearing in. A character design like this in a FF title is nothing to be upset about, it is a fantastical, silly story. Place that exact same character design in something like The Last of Us (as an extreme example) and I think it does become very questionable.

Anyway fella, great points raised, nice to know there are some sensible people on N4G. Have a great christmas, hope you get lots of cool games to enjoy.

[CrimsonWing69]

Beeeewwwwwwbbbbs!

Seriously what's the problem with characters being sexy? It's not like all the females are dressing provocatively. Why don't you SJWs quit being selfish and identify with your characters that are dressed conservatively while other people who like sex appeal enjoy this one character?

I'm not throwing a hissy fit that they made a bulky muscular dude with no shirt on running around.

[TXIDarkAvenger]

First I've heard of it.

[OtakuDJK1NG-Rory]

I like it. It fit her character only thing I don't like is her English Voice.

[Mithan]

Boobs are great. If anybody has a problem with that, who cares? Ignore those idiots.

[KakashiHotake]

Why can't people just understand that's just the way Japanese culture is? Not everyone society sees sex the same way. Only Americans whine about everything for no reason.

[Seraphim]

My only two complaints are her voice and the fact they didn't name her Cidny.

[Kallisti]

Is it because they're not big enough?

[Chaosdreams]

Boobs.

Because we've never seen those before.

This is a none issue. Not to mention Gladiolus is showing his abs, all the time.

[Warshade]

I appreciate they put something over the bikini she is wearing.

[bluefox755]

When did female sexuality become a bad thing? When did we turn into a society of puritans?

[EnsignHiro]

SJWs crack me up. So you want equal rights and such i totally get it i have no issue with that. But why just why must you try to censor every damn piece of media which shows even a slither of skin on a female and automatically call it misogynistic? Im sorry but if breasts especially ones on a female whether they are pixelated or real offend you then thats sad.

Creators shouldn't have to change a damn thing about their work because some immature guy was offended by breasts or some entitled female sjw had her feelings hurt that a sexy pixelated girl shows cleavage. I feel as time goes on more and more people are becoming very soft in such a way that we cannot do or create anything without somebody being offended by very simple things. I even heard a complaint once that there weren't any female main chars for games when thats not even true.

I hope people realize this but America is the one country that is so ashamed of sexuality and other countries are way more laid back in terms of sexuality. Also doesnt help that we " sexualize" a womans breast and have to censor them if nipples show but dont do this for males in media.

TLDR if your offended by anything then dont support it. Trying to have it removed or banned may not always happen.

[GrimDragon]

Any dude complaining about the sexy attributes of a female character in a game needs to check his testosterone levels. Especially when a female gamer like robin points out the stupidity of such complaints. the only cure for the sjw pestilence and white knight leeches is for people like robin to continue to call out the hypocrisy and contradiction in their complaints and for us as gamers defend the rights and freedoms of developer creations.

[fluxmulder]

The Japanese don't care about SJWs.

[InTheZoneAC]

my only problem is that these characters like Cindy just seem out of their way and out of place, like wtf is she even doing there at all?

[NapalmSanctuary]

I don't know about boobs and looks but Ive lived in the south my entire life, minus 4 years I spent in New Mexico. I'm talking all over, too. Mississippi, Tennessee, Louisiana, Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina and Ive never heard anyone talk like her. She's definitely a bit of a walking stereotype.

[DafunkyRebel]

She lives in a desert, its only right that she wears less clothes in the heat, I guess only men can take off their shirt in hot weather.

[isarai]

How about we whine about the food in this game. Seriously even just french fries look so unbelievably delicious and perfect it sets an unrealistic bar for expectations when it come to the average person cooking a meal for their loved ones. I think it's insane this is being overlooked, and i don't want my children growing up in a world that says "You're home cooked meals are unacceptable and ugly" #realfood #consumablesgate

/s

[Max-Zorin]

People whining about her breasts, are probably women that aren't blessed with a nice set.

[NextGenCeo]

Boobs is good :D Better than a HAIRY MAN CHEST :D :D :D
(ESL guy here)

[Segata]

I just can't stand that super phony southern accent. I'm not offended by her looks but it was clear Square did a Michael Bay with Megan Fox with her. She is purely there for sex appeal but every since FF games went 3D they have done that and so many JRPGs so whatever get over it. The accent tho seriously is awful.

[KosherNostra]

God, I hate these articles. Some of us grew up after high school and some of us didn't. I have a daughter that I'm introducing to gaming, and I don't really give a crap if you call me "SJW" for not wanting her to be turned off from it by stuff like this.

[Goldeneye007]

To most people, Cindy is a fantasy. Women who resemble her actually exist in this world, but how many of them actually work in an auto garage? None. Cindy's character, in every essence, is a fantasy... hence, the reason she's in a game called "FINAL FANTASY"! To anyone who's got a gripe about the character: Get over yourself. If it "offends" you so much, don't pay the game. Plain and simple.

On a personal note: I think the Cindy character is an over the top, southern USA, bombshell tomboy cliche and I even cringe every time I hear her dialogue with that hillbilly, hayseed voice but, you know what, I just don't care... I just mute it and read the closed captions when I can't skip, and I just enjoy the visuals-- BECAUSE IT'S JUST A VIDEO GAME, PEOPLE!

By the way, I'm on my second play-through, so I already know what she has to say and I skip over everything she has to say every chance I get lol!

[Hotabang]

who cares lol

[bmky]

There are pple who don't like boobs. Wow

[JMyers]

I can see more "real" nudity on instagram and other forms of social media... this with no age limit or restrictions. This isn't a problem though. But a paid game, with a T rating is being scrutinized. Logic

[TimeSkipLuffy]

What's wrong with Cindy? She is gorgeous to look at.

[Cryptcuzz]

Women flaunt their breasts in real life too, so what's the big deal here? Victoria Secret and similar brands sells bras and such to enhance that particular feature and women buy them up like crazy.

How I see it, not all women flaunt their breasts and assets in real life. Same as not all videogames characters as well.

In real life, when someone sees someone doing that and dislikes it, what do they do? Most likely give them a nasty look, maybe go on a righteous rant to their friends or family right? Then go about their business...

The fact that its come to the point where this is even a thing in videogames is ridiculous. Don't like how a female videogame character is portrayed and somehow are offended by it?

Do as you would in real life and give it a nasty look or go on some kind of rant portraying you as the superior -more intellectual and the perfect example of how a women should be to your friends or loved ones, then go about your business...

Where is the same nitpicking in movies, theater, music and reality? Holy hell, with the amount of energy, time spent and resources used to push this SJW in videogames could have been used to reduce sexual crimes, bring more awareness to breast cancer, reduce sex trafficking or anything else. Anything else is a better cause than complaining and whining about videogame characters.

Whine and complain about the story, game mechanics, battle system, something related to the actual gameplay that would genuinely make said game better, because without solid points on those things, most gamers wouldn't give a damn about how sexy a character is in the game in the first place.

[Phoenix76]

I find it hilarious that it's a man complaining about something, that really, only a woman should be complaining about. Bit like protesters at anti capitalism March's, yet they are the ones who are loaded with cash.

[maxleresistant]

While I think games like Dead or Alive are portraying women in a ridiculous way. Final Fantasy is not one of those games. This character is not the only women in the game, yes she is sexualized, but so are a lot of women in reality.
So, just, you know, fuck off with your feminist bullshit.

[2cents]

Not enough females in FF15, that's my take on it. Not used to so much testosterone in a FF game.

These SJW's need to take a running jump...

[braydox21]

Oh right this is still a thing. Sadly Cindy will never reciprocate those feelings i have for her because she's into women and......cars? but this is not an issue the real one is the barebones structure of the story/lore and world building. Loved the ending super bittersweet but damn they could have fleshed out the world alot more for example: Oh hey 6 astrals are already dead. Oh hey time travel is a thing yow want a cutscene or good dialogue to explain this no you get loading screen saying its thing apparently.

Oh hey random captain dude with a mech who actually has a non generic look. He might offer some interesting insight no just dies off.

Oh hey marshel you look to a have an interesting backstory and worthwhile information about the world and history no? Ok.

Oh hey prompto you were originally from nifilheim you must have some interesting knowledge you could share and add to the worlds lore no? Nifilheim just made you into a plot device ok.

Oh look at all these tombs were going to surely each one would haver their own story and history about each king maybe even find ardyn's tomb which could build up his backstory more. No? Ok rightio then.

Oh hey gladio you went off on your own adventure to free up a slot for aranea and come back scarred. That sound interesting want to tell us? No? Ok.

FFXV development team: hey guys i know were pretty baked right now but lets make the nifilheim level just jumpscares and little else. That sounds like a great idea.

Oh and your platforming hidden dungeon can go fuck itself.

P.s great game by the way love it.

[ShadowWolf712]

Isn't this the same site who agreed with the dude who had that meltdown because Drake had a daughter and not a son, or "at least one of each"?

[Bismarn]

The only article I've even seen about Cindy's boobs is this one.

[Auron]

5mill have already bought the game just like millions more have bought GTAV these sjw aren't important!! F them!

[ssmilloy36]

hey, in France protesting for pro life is punishable up to two years in prison. save the seals kill the children

[MrsNesbitt]

Offensive to have boobs these days, god. FF have buff men too nobody bats an eyelid on those!

[Blacklash93]

"Just recently it came to my (Robin Ek, TGG) attention that people have started to complain about Cindy Aurum´s looks and cleavage"

There have been people complaining about Cindy's clothes for well over a year. It didn't and hasn't amounted to anything.

Just another petty SJW/GamerGate issue for political-bait sites like TGG and Polygon to fuss over and drag out. -_-

[jznrpg]

No complaining from me

[JBlaze226]

I miss getting sick of these people being such hypocrites about this complaining about her and saying nothing about the guys. All I can say is grow up because what their doing is not helping no one but hurting the creative mind of these designers. One more thing if you don't want to see stuff like this then don't play it it's that simple and let us the true gamers enjoy how the game is meant to be.

[Drizzy]

Pussies shouldn't play games complaining about a T or M game gtfoh news flash pretty much everyone loves boobs except for whiny little faggots. No disrespect to the gay community I have gay friends but there not the super flamers who cry over everything. I see my gay friends constantly slapping girls asses doing there hair and grabbing there boobs all the time. If your complaining about a pair of titties you shouldn't live in normal society
There outside,in movies,in books, on tv, and probably in your home at least in a game you get a nice set to look at

[pat_11_5]

How is this on the front page of N4g? Seriously. This website is a cess pool.

[kenwonobi]

Women these days have fake butts and boobs. My problem with these people is why get mad at what is actually now common? You are just a prude. You wouldn't like Kim Kardashian or others with a body like her anyways. They would be jealous anyways of real people. So they should have zero say on videogames too.