Dev On Whether Scorpio's Power Should Be Used For 4k/30fps Or 1080p/60fps:'It Deserves Experiments'

Microsoft certainly seems to be pushing 4K gaming with their upcoming console, the Xbox One Scorpio which is scheduled to launch next year.

[Lennoxb63]

Just give us visual sliders like on PC.

[BLizardXD]

too much confusion, you could also just buy a pc. maximizing on simplified modes is better.

[Lennoxb63]

Then I'll have to pay double or even triple the amount for a PC the same spec as the Scorpio. I think I'm good.

[Loktai]

No you wont... the Scorpio is going to be a low end gaming PC by next fall. A 200 dollar video card does 6tf right now.... they'll be more like 150 by then, add the rest of the PC and it's at least 50% more powerful for not much more...

[NohansenBoy]

It's sad when people spread misinformation without research and posting facts. I'm not sure if console people just do it to spite PC or they truly believe what they say without even giving a PCpartpicker build list.

[nowitzki2004]

Yeah Lennox, do some research before you make statements like that.

How much is a Scorpio? Do you even know yet? When does it come out? By the time we find out you could easily build a PC and game however you want.

I have seen sites suggesting Scorpio will be about $599.. Thats not too cheap, and then you add in maybe another year in waiting for it.. Prices for PC parts are constantly on sale and dropping. My current rig is better than a Scorpio and I paid a little more than that early last year.

[ILostMyMind]

.. like a very good PC*

[XtraTrstrL]

Considering the new Titan X Pascal 12GB $1600 can barely manage 4K/60 for a few games, and will quickly drop below with newer games on highest settings, it makes sense to target 1080p/60 as the primary goal.

[Death]

A Titan X in a console would accomplish 4K/60fps much easier. PC's aren't the same as consoles due to their multi-use setup/OS.

[BlackTar187]

Death you're right but a titan x isn't going to be in consoles

[XtraTrstrL]

@BlackTar187
You took the words right out of my mouth.

[ILostMyMind]

Exactly. But now XBO is not a console anymore. It runs Win10 and UWP programs in different specifications. The optimization is gone.

[Death]

I don't see a TitanX in consoles anytime soon, but in a couple years it's not out of the question. Something similar next gen maybe. Would be a killer console.

[Lennoxb63]

You have to realize that you're talking about a 6TF GPU using an architecture that isn't available today. So the comparison is still off. You don't know how efficient next year's cards will be at displaying 4K.

@Loktai

I'm getting this from the horse's mouth. MS themselves said a 6tf GPU. Not APU. And no, an architecture that hasn't released yet is not in PCs today. Just because there are 6tf PCs out there doesn't mean they'll be running what the Scorpio is running. I also never said the Scorpio would be able to run 4k with high or ultra settings.

[Loktai]

It is available. Scorpio does not have a 6tf gpu... it has a 6tf APU. MEANING combined cpu and gpu power... THERE are 6tf+ cards right now for like a few hundred bucks. A 300 dollar 1070 is 6tf by itself... the Scorpio is an Apu totaling 6tf meaning cpu and gpu combined. WE have much more powerful hardware in budget PCS already.

Mark my words the games running 4k native on the Scorpio will not be on the level of the PC on high or ultra... games running upscaled or 1080p will be able to push today ultra settings no problem though especially if well optimized.

[TheCommentator]

Loktai, instead of looking foolish, why not just look it up and watch the reveal video which says 6tf GPU?

[rainslacker]

"You have to realize that you're talking about a 6TF GPU using an architecture that isn't available today"

Really? What architecture is it using? I'm positive it's a GCN compliant chip, thus the tech inside will be the same as what we have today. GPU's get faster, and can have more processes available as time goes on, but the GPU's we get today, are no different than the one's we got 10 years ago. They're faster, have more processing capabilities, and are more efficient, but they're the same tech with some added process features implemented.

"You don't know how efficient next year's cards will be at displaying 4K."

True, I guess. But we do know that the chip can process 6TF. Just because it can do so efficiently doesn't mean that those 6TF can suddenly do more than they could before. 6TF is it's rating, so we can safely assume it is capable of rendering what a 6TF GPU can nowadays. Some extra efficiency for being a console GPU without the OS overhead will allow it to do more than the frame of references we have now, but not to the degree that it would make a major difference in comparison to an 8-10TFlop GPU.

"MS themselves said a 6tf GPU. Not APU"

That's because TFLops are a rating of GPU's, not CPU"s or APU's. Each component of an APU will have it's own classification. It's just the two chips are cast onto a single die.

"an architecture that hasn't released yet is not in PCs today"

You seem to assume that the architecture is different. It's not. The internals work the same as prior cards. It uses the same processes, and has some more available to it. That isn't architecture, that's just improved design.

New architecture would be when GPU's moved to GCN. PS3's CELL/RSX was more new architecture than the current/upcoming lines of GPU"s are, and the RSX itself was a readily understood architecture, however, it's implementation was indeed new, thus making it a new system architecture.

To put it in perspective, NVidia's idea of innovation for "new architecture" is throwing more cores at the GPU saying it's something new. It's about akin to the difference between an 4 and 8 core CPU.

The fabrication process is different, thus leading to more energy efficient and smaller designs of the chips themselves, but that also isn't architecture.

Consider that PC GPU's have forever been released and always been more powerful than their predecessor. But it's been a long while since we've seen an actual architecture change in GPU's, and CPU's have been using the same architecture for even longer. There are different designs which can be more efficient though, or do more with less, like in the case of the i3,i5,i7 series of CPU's we've had for the past 7-8 years. GPU's are no different.

Different architecture implies that things will run differently, but they actually wont. They'll run the same, just faster, with maybe more available to them, and the GPU's of today have what the 6TFlop GPU in Scorpio will have, because TFLop rating is determined by what the GPU's have, not what it might have.

You are right though, PC GPU's won't be the same design as the Scorpio GPU, but that doesn't make the Scorpio GPU some godly chip capable of doing things it's PC counterparts can't, because I highly doubt MS invested the money required to come up with that kind of new architecture. Last time a company did that, they lost a lot of money, and were heavily criticized for building a system which used architecture which devs didn't understand.

[Angeljuice]

@Lennox
There aren't just 6tf PC's out there, there are far more powerful PC's that struggle with 4k.

Whatever new tech they use, they won't be delivering what they promise.

[zivtheawesome]

NVM me (also ignore my other comment and if you can erase them i read the title wrong)

[zivtheawesome]

NVM

[MilkMan]

Dev On Whether Scorpio's Power Should Be Used For 4k/30fps Or 1080p/60fps:'It Deserves Experiments.'
....and your cash while we conduct these experiments.
LOL.
Wanna experiment do it on your dime, then release a dope product.
OR
Release Alpha's and Beta's and take the community feedback and keep making a great game. Like Nioh.

[Death]

That's a silly statement. When consoles launch, the first year or two consists of developers getting used to the new hardware. Should they wait a couple years while we use our new consoles as door stops? Nothing comes out of the gate at full speed.

[MilkMan]

It's silly if you like being taken advantage of. I for one don't like paying to see what works and what doesn't. That's a standard that only gamers would hold to. I instead like completed certified products, which have gone through extensive Q&A to determine the overall product.
We need to upgrade our standards and not say: "it's cool, I like being an indentured wage slave."
This means you pay them for the privilege of testing their game. Time is money and money doesn't grow on trees.
I want to pay for a complete fully functional, fun game.

[Perjoss]

I like to think that devs are thinking about other ways to use the extra power other than just res and frame rate. I'd rather play a 1080 game that has excellent draw distance and an impressive lighting engine with advanced enemy AI than a 4k game that simply looks pretty with no advancements in other areas.

[Chaos_Order]

I find it depressing that we had 1080p 60fps games even LAST GEN, like Wipeout HD, which was a launch title for goodness sake! And yet still, almost a decade later, it's somehow out of reach on consoles. It's just bizarre.

[Lennoxb63]

Wipeout HD didn't look as good as today's games either. Nor did it push the same amount of assets.

[Loktai]

True, but it was also a near launch game on a 10 year old console long before the newer dev kits and devs really learned the machine. His point stands even if you're right... I'm the ps3 was difficult to develop for and very complex to get a good result out of...

[Muadiib]

1080p60 on max settings is all I want, hence why I'm a PC gamer. If Microsoft and Sony think their 4K machines will appeal to PC gamers then they are gravely mistaken. The flexibility is what we want, raw power is only a part of what makes PC's so great. Microsoft should be ashamed for not understanding the format they helped create.

[Death]

Isn't that why Microsoft is giving you the option to buy Xbox games on the PC as well as Xbox console? 4K machines will appeal to 4K UHDTV owners. As a PC gamer, I moved my rig to my HDTV years ago, but I'm still in the minority.

[Bolts]

I'm a PC gamer with a TV as well and I'm looking forward to MS implementation of more crossplay.

[Muadiib]

Sure, it's a niche market though. I suspect it will remain that way, never really taking off like blu-ray. I do like that I will be able to play xbox games on PC going forward though, still waiting on one that's worth buying though.

[lastking95]

Both/ vary by game. Fps and racers 60fps no doubt. Platformers and open world 4k. However open world i lean 60fps simply because so many have bad framerates. If 4k with a locked 30 id be ok but if it dips go for 60fps. TPS, 4k hdr.

4k-tps, platformers, 50/50 open world
60fps- racers, fps, 50/50 open world.

[iistuii]

30fps is awful, switching between the two on FH3 on PC is like someone turning on slo mo, its terrible. 60fps, whatever the resolution for me personally, so i hope the devs will leave it up to us & we can decide in the settings..

[iTechHeads]

Same as PS4 Pro. Depends on the game and it's up to devs.

[Xzviur_Azai]

"Devs on whether the PS5 power should be used for 4k 120 fps or 8k 30 fps."

We can play too... years away lets hype anyways whooo!!

[Donnie81]

How about give us the option to choose. Rise of the tomb raider has 3 different settings. I know not all devs will do this but let us choose 1080p 60 or 4k 30. Options are always a good thing.

[LexHazard79]

Well MS already said it will be upto developers to choose how they want to use Scorpio resources. But I believe their first party titles will have 4k/30 settings.

[LordJamar]

I have no doubt that MS will push it's first party games with the best performance

[XXanderXX]

You developers do what's best for your game and use everything afforded you .

(wow the most positive of comments gets a disagree , I must have miss something )

[LexHazard79]

What do you expect.. when you talk Scorpio or Xbox. It guaranteed double digit disagrees by end of day..lol. Especially that they know Scorpio will be doing native 4k gaming.

[XXanderXX]

So its a mix of Fear & hate , how sad .

[Angeljuice]

It's more about the XBox bubble heads who believe all the hype about Scorpio without thinking.

We're just trying to lower your expectations to a realistic level.

You have some bonehead above saying that PS4 Pro looks hardly any better than XB1s (4.2 tf vs 1.3 tf). Yet suddenly if you add 1.8 tf to a Pro (Scorpio) you have the most amazingly powerful tech ever.

The difference between Pro and X1s is much bigger than the difference between Pro and Scorpio. If you think the Pro doesn't beat the X1s by much, then you will be massively disappointed by the Scorpio.

[TwilightSparkle]

How about gameplay over cinematic visuals. Just a thought

[LordJamar]

How about both? People need to stop using this snide remark such as yours. performance effects gameplay

[TwilightSparkle]

It only effects u apparently

[Star51]

Give me sega saturn graphics or give me death

[Deeke]

It's a weird mix, right? 4K is definitely the next step for console gaming, so they'd be foolish not to play around with it. But at the same time, 1080p 60FPS would be awesome, even 1440p 60FPS.

But giving devs the opportunity to experiment is more fortuitous than setting a hard mandate. Sure it'll be weird, but devs will learn SO MUCH from this process.

That being said, I'm hoping for more 1080p 60FPS, but that's only because I don't have a 4K TV. If I splurged on a HDR 4KTV I'd feel totally different...but I don't like the idea of having to spend $1,100 or so on a console + TV combo.

[StormLegend]

I would love to choose my option.

[superchiller]

The real issue? "Scorpio" doesn't even exist yet, it's nothing more than a fantasy that was announced to try to minimize the success of the PS4 Pro. It's pointless to write articles about it as if it were a real thing.

[TheCommentator]

So you think developers will start making Scorpio games a few weeks before it launches then? We're talking about a year here, which isn't a lot of time for developers anyways, so it's ridiculous to assume nobody is working with the hardware specs at this point.

[threefootwang]

Spoken like a true Sony Defence Squad Fanboy. Speaking of which, why are you even commenting on an Xbox only article when you should be playing your glorious PS4 instead?

Also, Sony initially gave almost zero information when they first announced the Pro....but you probably believed them without a doubt. MS showed a video, made multiple confirmations and has since released more information, but it clearly doesn't "exist." Right. Sony Fanboy logic 👍

[LastCenturyRob]

Of course it exists. MS, Sony and Nintendo are constantly developing new hardware. The Scorpio isn't ready for production but to say it doesn't exist is a little short sighted. Even though the PS4pro isn't officially released yet, you better believe Sony is already thinking about and putting together builds for the PS5.

[LastCenturyRob]

Why not 2k/60fps? Gotta say, 1080p/constant 60fps on the Scorpio with lighting, high res textures, effects and AA turned up to max will look amazing!

[namEuser]

i agree with the 1080 and 60 should be first.

[PlayableGamez-]

Why not both?

[PurpHerbison]

1080p/60FPS. This should be a no brainer. Enough of the shoddy frame rates. Like 4k is going to make games struggling at 30FPS any better.

[starsi360]

Hit 60 fps and then see how far you can push graphics & resolution from there

But 60fps feels so silky smooth in games that IMO it's a must going forward

1080P on 'high' settings & 60fps is my sweet spot

[mochachino]

I would imagine it could do a number of games at 1440p/60fps. Whatever the case, the target should be 60FPS fist for most games, or have devs optimize for higher-res/30 and lower-res/60.

[sullynathan]

With great power comes great responsibility

[cellfluid]

What happened to 4k 60 uncompromised?? Are they switching up the lingo? ? Unbelievable

[TheCommentator]

They who? MS? This is an independent developer, not MS, giving thoughts on how they want to use Scorpio's power. MS gave 3rd parties the choice on how to use it, remember? 4K/60 uncompromised is specifically for MS 1st party releases at launch.

Unbelievable indeed, SMH.

[cellfluid]

No doubt.. Thanks..

[Codedan]

Most people here never played 4K at 60, or 1080p maxed out. I would rather have 1080p with more detail than 4K. The resolution jump is not that noticeable when sitting on a coach.

[loulou]

Gamingbolt just doing the same stuff day in day out for them n4g hits..

[blazin8]

devs should most certainly focus on 1080p/60

[MagicBeanz]

Frame over res, at least until the xbox fanboys tell us otherwise. It switches almost daily at this point.

[LastCenturyRob]

Is that all you do is troll? Anytime you show up on comment sections about the X1 or MS you troll! LOL, I called you on your childish trolling last week and what did you do? You sent a belligerent private email and then like a coward you blocked any return emails! Seriously, little boy its past your bedtime. I'm sure your mommy and daddy don't want you on the computer this late anyway!.

[MagicBeanz]

I like how you claim I'm trolling and then proceed to troll and act like a child. You seem really bitter about something, maybe its you who needs to go to bed cry baby.

[LastCenturyRob]

Awwwww, didI get udew youw itty bitty twoll skin? LOL! Far too easy! Meh, you fanboys trolls are too easy to slap around! I'll just claim checkmate now as to not waste my time on mentally stale fools such as yourself! Respond all ya want kid. No need for me to even read it! You proved what you are time and time and time again and I am not the only one who thinks so. Apparently you aren't nearly as clever as your mommy tells you! LOL! b'bye lil'troll, b'bye!!!!!!

[MagicBeanz]

LOL, hilarious. The fact you spent that much time on that shows who got under who's skin.

[Smokingunz]

Stupid developers smh 1080 p at 60 is a thing of the past, these current gen consoles should've been doing that with every game. If I have a 4k cool coming my goal would be to achieve 4k with every game that is the purpose of the machine. Why should a buy another expensive console just to play 1080p 50 fps games when this gen and last gen should've been playing them? Make no sense. Gaming now a days sucks I wouldn't be surprised if consoles die and there was another video game crash smh. That's like me buying a Ferrari knowing that I'm going to be driving 35 to 75 mph instead of putting the pedal to the medal smh then what was the point of me buying a Ferrari? This just stupid. Push 4k content on a 4k console if u want to make 1080p games at 60fps keep developing for current gen.

[Smokingunz]

How about at least 1440p?

[LAWSON72]

simple.
fast paced=60fps
slow paced=30fps

[Ijustplayem]

Ive been playing forza one the xb1s looks amazing in 4k but nothing feels smoother than 60fps

[rpvenom]

didnt phantom pain run at 1080p 60fps on ps4? how are these new machines still not able to pump out 4k at 60fps.. this is ridiculous

[gamer7804]

i'd love to see 1080 or some res in between with more effects higher textures lighting etc, sure 4k is nice for some things but i'm sure the dev can decide whether they want a higher resolution or for the effects to match high pc settings

[Segata]

60FPS please. Link Between Worlds on a 240P screen looks fantastic just because of the 60FPS. Framerate can do wonders.

[ziggurcat]

If it can do 4K 30fps without any impact on performance, by all means. I would say that 1080p 60fps should be the priority, though, and I don't think Scorpio will have any trouble with that.

[WilliamSheridan]

I would rather see INSANE graphics at 1080p 60fps instead of the same graphics we have now at 4k whatever...

[bradleejones]

I just want good games. We really don't have much in the way of graphics complaints anymore. We've come a long way since 16 bit era.

[fanboysmackdown]

Wow, so many Captain Obvious comments on here to chose from! Just love it when most of them quote the author word for word.

[TryGamers]

It's time to invest in making a huge leap in computing resources.

[Babadook7]

Why was this article tagged as PS4? lol

[LastCenturyRob]

Doesn't high Def movies run at 42fps? Not gaming of course but that seems like a fair potential minimum benchmark for 4k gaming.

[fatneal]

im not even a graphics guy but legit 1080 p with 60 fps is the obvious choice here....most people dont even have 4k tvs...theres quite a few people who still dont have 1080p tvs...i just dont see the benefits of gaming companies jumping on the 4k craze when 4k tvs still arent a mainstream high demand product and honestly they may never be a high demand product

[Mithan]

How about both? lol dumbasses.

That being said, what it SHOULD be used for is better 1080p graphics, period.

[HeyNowChillax]

My biggest regret this console gen has been the 1080p target locked (often struggling) at 30fps. We have had a few notable FPS's that can do 60fps but many of the best games this gen has been open world and 30fps is the best we can get. This gen SHOULD have used hardware to support 1080p 60 but didn't and with all the Microsoft play anywhere PC/XBOX unification upon us, I believe, Sony released a mid gen 1080p 60fps capable system to compete, the reason for the PS4 PRO.

I recently upgraded my PC and piped everything in my living room, so I'm running around 5 tflops already. Effectively an Xbox Scorpio experience 1.5 years early using the new Xbox Windows App to connect with friends and it's pretty damn awesome. I must admit, I haven't used my PS4 much since I started couch gaming via PC. That being said, 1080p 60fps looks amazing with anti aliasing, filtering and all effects on ultra. On a large TV, it's impressive and when the Scorpio comes out, they will have some really incredible looking open world 1080p 60fps experiences and it should be the target. Probably PS4 pro as well for that matter, 4.2 tflops ain't too shabby.

[PiperMCFierceson]

What I'm worried about is Microsofts record of ditching consoles. Leaving them stranded without games to support it. All that power they are going on about, hope they have tons of games lined up to utilize it. And I'm not talking about the dried up franchises. I would like to see some new and innovating stuff. Preferably 1080/60, sell to the non 4K audience. Market this machine to the masses, not just pixel whores.

[NextGenCeo]

Full HD 60 first for every single Xbox Scorpio game. Second Native 2K 30FPS stable. Third 4K upscale 30FPS stable.

I don`t believe 6 teraflops GPU and AMD CPU not enough for real native 4K! If they use Intel I7 level CPU and 6 teraflops GPU then maybe 4K 30FPS with medium-High detail can be play well.
My friend have I7 6700K 16gb ram and GTX 1070. He can`t play games with 4K over 32FPS and some times drops 25FPS.
But 2K he is playing every games between 50 to 75FPS. His I7 6700K clock to 4.6GHZ. So means without powerfull CPU 6 teraflops GPU not means lot.
(ESL guy here so sorry for English)

[lennyvon]

OK the thing that bothers me more is the fact that we need to spend a fortune to get a hdr setup. Why have there not been any cheaper electronic companies making affordable hdr 10 tvs?
With the launch of the xbox 360 and ps3 the hdtv sales skyrocketed but I don't see the same happening anytime soon as hdr compliant tvs are outwith mosts reach.

Why no hdr 10 1080p tvs? As apparently hdr does more for fidelity than 4k............

[Smok91]

What about 1440? Looks beautiful and a lot less power than 4K.

[Kokyu]

I dont care about fps I want better detail, 30fps is just fine for me.

[InTheZoneAC]

1080p 60fps should be the standard with pro and scorpio. If Scorpio is powerful enough to run 4k 60fps across all games then go for it, but this whole debate is ridiculous. If you can't run 60fps then lower the res.

[Tzuno]

2k, end of story.