Uncharted 4 Dev: Diversity as Important as Graphics and Gameplay

J Station X: Neil Druckmann, the director of The Last of Us and Uncharted 4: A Thief's End says that diversity is as important as graphics and gameplay.

[TwoForce]

For me, I don't mind Diversity of gaming, but I do know a lot of people hate it. And I agree that. It is something that make people scare of it. There are some people willing to support diversity and other people don't want it. Story, characters and gameplay are very important to me. I'm still neutral about this. Year and year, video game have slowly evolved in good way and bad way. That's just my opinion really. One more thing, it is something that I have to think about it.

[_-EDMIX-_]

I'm a bit surprised, out of all people on here I thought you would have been in full support of that.

Nothing is wrong with reality. The reality is.....the entire world is not made up of buff white dudes and any game that depicts someone other then that and shows real traits that are rarely seen is cool to explore.

Its why I liked Nathan Drake's character so much. He wasn't some buff action hero, he wasn't some ex military, he wasn't some master gun shooter or anything like that.

ZERO reason to not support diversity. Screw those that don't want it, so fight for more of the same standard?

I was for one happy that in MGS4 Snake was OLD! They showed him not only age, but all the issues that came along with it, his memory, sight, physical abilities etc People can't cry about wanting something different in gaming, then cry when something is different in gaming.

[The 10th Rider]

Um, Nathan Drake is no body builder, but he is buff and an action hero. Plus he's got a great shot.

[EmperorDalek]

The amount of strength you need to climb stuff like that? He is buff, it's just his personality that makes him different from say the Gears of War cast.

Diversity is only a problem when devs like Bioware shoe-horn it into their games, it can end up feeling forced.

[Vegamyster]

People are not afraid of diversity, they just don't want it to be forced in.

[Sunny_D]

Here's the problem. How do you know if it's being forced in? Does the character for Mafia 3 seem like it's being forced in when previous characters were white? Or is it okay because of the time period? Does that mean, a black character like him can only be in a game that's related to racial issues in a specific era? Is it alright that we have an everyday guy like Nathan Drake instead being a black guy?

[starchild]

This "diversity" often feels forced. That's one of the things that turns people off I think. It should always be appropriate to the setting and narrative of the game.

[Erik7357]

I mean they are forced in to make all protagonist white males almost so shouldnt you be for diversity if you "dont want artist to be forced in"? All of them I bet are 90% time not allowed to have a main character thats not white or a female except a few games. Thats not so true now though, its pretty good right now and we have a good mix of characters. Also like sunny D said you cant really tell when its "forced in"

[_-EDMIX-_]

100% agreed. I think that goes without saying. No one wants any feature, characteristic etc forced or there just to be there.

I feel many marketing reps help ok characters JUST based on what statistically sells and don't care about creativity, I feel the ARTIST DO! If someone wrote that story with a certain race, demographic, gender etc, I want to hear what they have to tell.

Give rhyme to the reason as they say, I think we all want that about all games and art. We will never really know if it was "forced" so I find it a bit irrelevant as it will likely remain unproven. I do want reason behind all characters though.

edit- to fries great point, most don't bring up that white buff males have been for the most part forced as this default to market games. We've had way too many times where someone has come out and stated someone was changed to this to that simply based on sales.

Those higher ups want to make games that are like OTHER games to get those sales, gamers want this change, publishers are too scared it. They want to look like other games, market how other games market etc.

THUS if a game has MP, what have we seen?
If a game has over the shoulder....what have we seen?
So if a game has a white male, what have we clearly seen many times over?

To a degree I get that many of those games would have always had a white male do to the nature of the story, game etc, but we honestly can't say the same for ALL games, we all know that games change things ALL the time to appeal to a crowd.

Look at all the before and after from Japanese games? From removing characters, changing gender, race, names, enlarging breast, making breast smaller lol etc. We've seen it too many times to really not factor that.

[Theguardianwave]

Notice it's only forced in when it's not white guys like us America is racist lets just admit it. There is no good reason games shouldn't have more diverse cast just look at overwatch and take notes

[Vegamyster]

@Sunny_D

Like bruce755 said, you don't always know but it's pretty obvious when certain groups are always getting upset and pressure devs to change a character because they don't like something and that was my point.

@Theguardianwave
"America is racist lets just admit it"

I don't live in the US but I'll tell you what i think about a statement like that. Okay there is racism but saying something like that without giving any proof doesn't do anything to help, is there some law that creates a disadvantages or are you just generalizing all people as being racist?

[NecoTehSergal]

@Sunny_D - Forced, such as say, an all-female Ghostbusters movie remake for 2016. Nothing screams diversity like having no males and stereotyping the only black woman in the movie---- wait...

[rainslacker]

@Sunny

When it doesn't seem to fit, it's probably forced. When it doesn't matter to the narrative, and it's prominent, it is probably forced. When it's openly admitted to being changed to be diverse, it's probably forced.

If one is having trouble saying it's forced, because it fits into the game, or narrative, or with everything else in the game, then it's probably not forced.

Forced is the wrong way to be diverse. Being diverse because it works and makes sense, means the dev is conscious of the product they're trying to make, and go to greater lengths to be authentic and understand good character design, scene set up, or story telling.

There are times it's ambiguous. Say with the new Watch Dogs game. Black guy wouldn't be that out of the ordinary in a urban city. I feel the decision to make the main character black was forced because it's just the trend right now, but ultimately, it's not out of place, so whatever, it's fine.

But lets look at Kung Lao(sp?) from MKX. His homosexuality wasn't really that important to anything. It was barely even covered in the story mode, and even left slightly ambiguous. So what's the point? Make him gay because????. That's forced, because it really doesn't matter what his sexual preferences are....and sexuality of the characters was never a topic of the series that I can recall....hence, it's forced.

It didn't ruin the game or anything, but it's a prime example that forced inclusion isn't really helping anything, nor is it meaningful except to allow the devs or pubs to appear to believe in being diverse.

But I'm going to throw this out there, because I see people say that people are overtly heterosexual often in reference to the ubiquitious nymphomaniac or sexy character that's in some of these games. Well, those are forced as well. It's common, but no less forced if it means nothing.

In the case of kung lao though, it had nothing really to do with his character in context to the game, and even less to the overall narrative. It wasn't even a personality trait akin to those overly sexual heterosexual characters that people keep pointing to.

If a game is designed around the premise of being diverse, one has to ask themselves if it's a game worth playing, because the make up of the characters, and structure/quality of the narrative is not going to take precedence over being good by including characters that actually have a meaningful role within that story.

If one were to say look at Life is Strange. The game was written to tell a narrative. There was diversity, although mostly just preppy hipster white kids, but one of the characters was gay, and it had nothing to do with the story itself, beyond that persons relationship to another person, and possibly some narrative based on players choices with the players avatar itself. The narrative came first. The other obviously gay character in the game, never once had their sexuality mentioned, commented on, or in any way was part of the plot, but it fit given the setting of the game....thus done very well.

@Saito below

My bad. Got them confused. Cousins or brothers as I recall. I didn't get too deep into MKX, just the first simple example I could think of. Thanks for clarifying.:)

[Saito]

@rain its Kung Jin not Lao who is homosexual

[Aither]

Feminists and SJW don't care about Naughty Dog since they are the ones that attack the gamer populace. To support something that actually wants to bring you down and force you into doing what they want is pretty sadist of Neil Druckmann and Naughty Dog in general. Feminists hate gamers because they don't care if sexy girls are in the games, and they want developers to be forced into developing what feminists want which is void of anything sexual and to make females the protagonist regardless of of whether it adheres to the story or not. After being a long time supporter of the company, I honestly feel betrayed by Sony because they are catering to the whims of the feminists, hence the new crappy Ghost Busters movie and Naughty Dog going out of its way to change a gender solely because of feminist frequency. The BS they spew has gotten to the point where Neil Druckmann will literally change the original ending of a story they had planned for Uncharted 4 in order to make feminists feel better about themselves. This simply should not be.

There have been plenty of main female cast of characters in games before that were put in because the developers thought it would be best and gamers loved those titles. This feminist and SJW movement has gotten so far out of hand that it is literally forcing us to live in a world they want where freedom of thought doesn't matter because it "might hurt someones feelings". Yeah the only feelings they care about is their own.

[rainslacker]

I've never felt that ND was one to have to worry about forcing anything into their games. They seem to try and make games(at least starting last gen where they went more real world) that have characters, settings, and stories that fit within their narratives. No character in UC is out of place for what it is. The one "sexy" character isn't even out of place, and even though she knows she's sexy, it's not like they objectify her, or make that in any way the biggest part of her character. Her sexiness is just a character trait, not the character itself.

ND itself, made Elena to be fairly ordinary for a woman in video games long before the SJW starting complaining, and while she's "sexy" in her own way, that sexiness is something that is just kind of natural for a petite blonde who is as active as she would be.

Druckman himself, despite saying he's looking at ways to diversify his games, just makes characters that work. So long as the diversity he brings works with the games, and the entire game isn't build around the premise of being diverse, I'm sure it'll be fine.

There's nothing wrong with seeing what these people have to say, and using it to analyze what one could do better, or if they've been doing things wrong. Some people want to show that people are the same regardless of what affiliation may be attributed to them, and the good story tellers know that even if something is forced, there has to be a reason to explain their inclusion, even if it's not directly stated. When they do so, the diversity isn't for the sake of being diverse, it's diverse, because the artist themselves want things to be more natural.

Even though these inclusions are borne from his beliefs on the subject, it's OK for them to include things that they feel fit, because a part of the artist exists in every piece of art. As far as ND goes, they don't go overboard, and they do make it natural so it still fits.

When they're included to fill in check boxes, then it becomes a problem, because more often than not, it's extremely shallow and needless. If the artist can't naturally come to a way to include these things, then it's a problem. Actively looking for ways to be diverse isn't a problem so long as they remain true to the overall vision. Every game has it's design analyzed, and even a generic buff white guy is there due to decisions that it fits the best(or more often will be the most appealing to the target audience). There's nothing wrong with doing it for things categorized as diverse.

[sampson3121]

99% of everything we see in movies, tv, and games are white folks. i don't have a problem with it because it's all I've really known growing up in north america.

why some people find it threatening, or feel that having a non white character is being in some way shoved down their throats, is amusing to the 1% that are told to live with it everyday.

name five characters from 5 successful games that had to be white because the story called for it.
Nathan Drake didn't have to be a white character, he could have been native american, no?
unless you think native americans are still living in tepees. get my point?

woman are getting a very small percentage of leading roles in games and movies.

"This feminist and SJW movement has gotten so far out of hand that it is literally forcing us to live in a world they want where freedom of thought doesn't matter because it "might hurt someones feelings". Yeah the only feelings they care about is their own."

remove "This feminist and SJW movement has gotten so far out of hand that it is literally" and add "white males are" to the beginning, and then you might understand how the rest of us feel.

[Timesplitter14]

What I think is a bit weird here is that there is little to no diversity in ND's games. At least not in the main characters. It's only the people you shoot that are really diversified

[rainslacker]

ND only has a few characters for any one of their games. The main character, a few supporting cast, a bad guy or two, and those bad guys henchmen. For the most part, given where the games take place, their "diversity" is pretty natural for the story because it either fits into the location, or the location of where the bad guy comes from.

ND games have diversity beyond that though. Ellie was gay in TLOU...although it wasn't revealed until the DLC...but her sexuality had nothing at all to do with the plot in the game proper. Her friend in Left Behind was black, and also gay, hence diverse. The antagonist of TLOU was black, although she wasn't actually a bad guy in the classic sense nor were you gunning for her the whole game. The fireflies and regular soldier types you shot throughout the game were made up of what you'd expect in a game that takes place in America...and that's varying races, but mostly white. Beyond that, there wasn't much to be diverse about. People were just who they were.

before that, their games weren't set in reality, so can't really say there.

[GeraltOfRevia]

SJWs aren't going to buy your games so you can stop acting like you care about them.

[Sunny_D]

So why can't non Sjw's buy the games?

[EcoSos3]

Thats because its not made for us.

[BosSSyndrome]

That moment when believing that a further exploration of human diversity in an art form with so much untapped potential makes you a KRAZY SOSHUL JUSTIS WARYUR HARRRR

[Imalwaysright]

Is this a joke? This can only be a joke!

[Bahamut]

It's been confirmed. The Last of Us 2's main character will be an obese African-American female lesbian hermaphrodite.

[Greyfoxdbz]

Joel will be in a wheelchair for last of us 2 for disability representation

[marioJP87]

lmaoooooooooo

[rainslacker]

Not obese. ND doesn't want to offend fat people. Remember no donut drake?

Also think lesbian hermaphrodite is an oxymoron. But so is African American for the vast majority of people who use it, since they do not have dual citizenship. You don't actually need to use female when referencing a lesbian, the lesbian part implies that it's a female.

So, the main character for TLOU2, by your reasoning, and to make sure ND doesn't offend anyone with misplaced or redundant nomenclature is that they will be nothing at all....because all those things can't actually exist in conjunction with one another....unless the main character actually has dual citizenship....which wouldn't make much sense in TLOU, because I doubt citizenship is something that exists in the world, and travelling from Africa to America wouldn't seem practical in that world....unless they were there at the start of the outbreak.

[Kingdomcome247]

This gave me a good chuckle.

[Bahamut]

@rainslacker I understand that some oxymorons may have been prevalent, but t'was a simple jest sir. One of which to not be taken seriously. Good day!

[rainslacker]

:)

I didn't take it seriously. I was joking as well. Just trying to show how silly it can all be.:)

More often than not, when i go into these over rational rants and exploitative analysis of things that are said, it's best not to take me seriously.:)

[NotEvenMyFinalForm]

ND now drinking the kool-aid too... So sad. But graphics are not as important as gameplay either. That is nonsense.

[_-EDMIX-_]

Diversity allows for stories to be told that otherwise would have not been feasible or believable.

Having a graphically immersive world allows to convey a world that otherwise would have not been feasible or believable.

No one is saying its the only thing that matters, merely some concepts NEED to be able to convey an idea graphically just as much, consider Alien Isolation or Dead Space... I still need to believe I'm in such a space station to be fully immersed. If it looks like Minecraft, clearly I'm not going to have my mind in that same place.

Some genres NEED it, using Minecraft as an example again, it can pass with that clearly as a open world do anything type of fantasy game, but many horrors need to be able to rely on making a believable world first before making you PLAY a horror.

P.T is an amazing example, that game looks JAW DROPPINGLY amazing, added with amazing gameplay, you are locked in that world and it feels believable because it looks believable.

[Sunny_D]

So why can't devs add a minority character just because and not because of some agenda? Can we get an everyday guy like Nathan Drake without having it relate to racial issues or a specific time period? Or nah?

[mopground]

We can. Thats the problem with these progressive types. They dont actually see how theyre regressive. They are more sexist and racist than those they accuse of being because the character must be black cause he/she is black. Someone mentioned mafia 3 earlier up, is it forced? Well if you listen to the dev walk through, im pretty sure he says 'hes a black vietnam vet" not a "vietnam vet". Why say this when we can see?

[iceman06]

@Mopgeound...he says that he is Black because it is an important aspect of the narrative of the establishment of the Black Mafia throughout the game. It adds to the overall tensions because of the time period that the game is set in. (being harassed by the police while trying to go about your mafia business adds that extra layer of immersion to the narrative) So, it's not just a throw away mention.

[Imalwaysright]

Indeed. It's preferable to have better graphics but why is it that FF13 and RE6 were considered disappointments and are widely considered the worst games in their respective franchises despite having much better graphics than their predecessors? Graphics don't make or breajk games.

[Darkwatchman]

That's obviously true, but Uncharted 4 wouldn't have had the same impact it does now without the amazing visuals it has.

[ninsigma]

I'm going at this from an SP game perspective.

From Druckman, quoted in the article:
"When you make a game, you have these different pillars that you’re trying to balance. It’s graphics, it’s gameplay, it’s story and you’re trying not to let any one pillar overwhelm the other. You’re trying to just keep all of this stuff in your mind like, how does it all work together? Recently, I realized that there’s this other pillar of diversity. That’s just as important as any one of these other pillars".

I see where he's coming from and respect his opinion. In fact I agree to an extent BUT I feel the execution of his statement is going the wrong way. The way I see it is that diversity is not it's own pillar. It's part of the story pillar. The diversity of the characters should come naturally from the story/lore/setting of the game.

[Rimeskeem]

The way I see it is diversity is a part of every pillar. You have to have diverse characters to have a great story (typically in ND games anyways). You want diversity in the gameplay (Uncharted 2 train combat). And I guess with graphics you have to have diversity to give completely different atmospheres.

[Imalwaysright]

I disagree. Diversity is absolutely meaningless on its own. What matters is if the characters are well written and if we can connect with them. If devs don't accomplish that I don't care if they are black blue or green because I will not care about them.

[rainslacker]

Yep, and when diversity becomes it's own pillar, you get skewed views on what is natural, or you start trying to write your story or create your characters to fit within that diversity pillar. But since that diversity pillar is part of the story pillar, it becomes harder to actually achieve balance, because you are now trying to balance between two pillars where there used to be one, thus things become skewed. In terms of presentation, this leads to lackluster implementation, because there is no way to balance out the pillars.

If you have a round bowl balancing between three pillars, and you insert another pillar, it's going to move the bowl. While balance could be found, it requires more work.

But if you split one of the pillars into two, then the two new pieces can't hold anything on their own, and the other two pillars aren't capable of making up the lack of balance, thus the bowl falls.

In any case, even if it is it's own pillar, I don't feel it's anywhere near as important as the other three. It's more like a weight added to a wheel to help balance out some roughness. Not a main part of how the wheel spins.

At best it can be considered a brick within the story pillar. Pillar won't fall if you remove it, but something may appear to be missing for those looking at that pillar from a different perspective.

Aren't metaphors fun?

[S-Word]

It's not even close to being even half as important as gameplay & graphics. Just goes to show that Naughty Dog are going downhill.

[sampson3121]

when a segment of society has 99% of all media representing them. it's amusing to hear them get upset and complain that they are being wronged. kinda being hypocritical no?

[GeraltOfRevia]

I wouldn't pay any attention to what he said if I were you cause all it is is a publicity stunt to bring in more people.

[-Foxtrot]

Call me worse then shit but I've kind of lost respect for Neil after he supports and loves Anita Sarkeesian and her Feminist Frequency shows.

Nadine Ross seems like he was trying to please her with that character. The woman who just beats the shit out of Nate despite all the highly skilled people he's had a fight with in the past. Navarro, Lazarevic and even Talbot. A highly trained mercenary, a psychological war criminal and a highly trained secret agent...yet he can't take down Nadine....hell even with Sams help she beats the crap out of both of them. In the end she also gets away, probably because they didn't want Nate or Sam, two males to kill her.

Basically this confirms that Nadine was changed to a black woman because of "diversity".

God knows what he's going to do with Ellie in the Last of Us 2.

[_-EDMIX-_]

Not really. I don't care for Anita in terms of how she goes about it, but I can't disagree with the overall narrative. A lot of what she is saying is correct, but I don't like the "demanding" of it as gaming is a subjective art form.

I think its AMAZING to bring awareness as I have nothing but respect for that, but not calling out artist and demanding for something, merely JUST because.

The goal is just, the execution is a bit overboard.

"Basically this confirms that Nadine was changed to a black woman because of "diversity". Not really. Even is she was...I'm completely fine with that.

Other races, genders, cultures exist in the world bud, I'm actually dead tired of playing the same crappy people every generation.

I was DELIGHTED when I played Prey 1 and the main character was Native American.

Its why I've always LOVED the story and characters in the Tekken universe. They speak the language of the country they are from and it just adds this cool realism factor to the game (yes I know...in TEKKEN).

I was playing Fallout 4 the other day and realized how funny it was that no one spoke any other language other then English besides maybe 1 character that I know of (won't spoil it for anyone).

Could you imagine a Fallout or any open world RPG that had MANY different real world languages? .

When you go outside, chances are you will see different age groups, genders, cultures etc.

We don't even see that in games, but THAT is something I'd like to see if only to fully immerse me into the game.

Consider in many zombie games, the only people that seem to be zombies are adult slim males and females LOL!

No short, fat, kids, ages etc This isn't about adding it JUST for the sake, this is about properly conveying the real world. I even downloaded the Skyrim mod for argonian and khajiit kids, as well as old people of all races, as well as randomizing the heights of all NPCs.

We don't live in a world with all slim white males along with slim white females with zero kids, zero old people and all the same height and size lol

Diversity IS realism!

[Christopher]

***Nobody wants "realism" though, they want exciting fantasy.***

I want both. An element of realism makes the game better while a fantastical setting and creatures also makes it better.

*** They want great stories.***

And sometimes those come from stories with a more diverse element to them. Not always, but sometimes.

*** They don't want a diversity checklist being forced onto them like they do in every other aspect of their lives. ***

Agreed. And this is the problem. People are making diversity a checklist rather than just a natural element of storytelling and gameplay. Diversity isn't the issue, doing it solely as a checklist element is the issue. BioWare's gay characters add nothing to the storyline. Watch_Dogs 2 comes off as a diversity checklist for me, but Mafia 3 doesn't.

I wasn't as bothered by Nadine in U4 as others as I think it's more akin to the standard issue in action entertainment: the hero is some big action guy and can take on 50 nobodies, but one other person out of nowhere, sometimes a female character, suddenly kicks his butt in (see most episodes of Arrow as an example of this). I don't have the problem with her being black or female, I just take it as the usual "we have an issue where in order to make this fight seem reasonable, we have to ignore the hero's history." Something extremely common on TV shows, and Uncharted plays like a TV show of sorts over the 4 games. I probably would have taken it better if she had used some sort of melee weapon, otherwise she comes off as a fantasy interpretation of the character.

I have way more issues in U4 with the shoe-horned-in brother storyline. But, that's just me.

[_-EDMIX-_]

@Bruce- "Nobody wants "realism" though, they want exciting fantasy"

I see you didn't read my entire post. You want a fantasy game that doesn't have any children of certain races, no old people, everyone the same height and 1 language? I love fantasy games too bud, but something like Fallout or Elder Scrolls, Witcher etc don't just state that there is some reason they don't have much, kids, old people, languages etc. Most just over all don't have them and I normally just add them in mods

Part of the immersion is still grounded in reality of that many races exist, they have kids, people grow old etc. Pretty sure its not part of the "fantasy" of those games to have no kids, old folks, different languages etc lol My point is that diversity is realism. ONLY and ONLY if the game's story resolves around something that gives reason to not have that ie only women exist because of xyz or what have you, does that ever make sense in.

". But the negativity in response to this narrative shows that many gamers don't like this being forced into games"

Yet they are fine that publishers have been forcing the same demographic for decades now? I want to play what the director of the game intended, not what the publisher thinks will sell. Look at how much gets changed in games when publishers think they won't get attention like other titles, think about how much has been the same simply because of that same concept.

If you are fine with publishers continuing to choose games characters JUST based on statistical sales, you're also fine with them throwing in MP or SP even for the sake of sales.

I want it because it has reason, not because some publisher thinks doing this will make it sell.

"the real motive is to" yes...the "the real motive is to" sell games......its why they force features in games to get bullet point sales, its why they jump on trends to make money, its why they censor games in certain regions or change names or even genders to gain some sort of western appeal.

How do you know what you've been currently playing all along as been "the real motive is to" make money?

"portrayal of certain "majority" and "entitled" groups".....sooooo how would that not be any different then? They very much know games statistically sell with certain demographics as the main characters, the changes done from concept to finish or even when the game is going to another region shows this.

All I'm saying, is I want games to reflect the real world, not because I don't want fantasy, because even in the fantasy I play...ITS NOT PART OF THE GAME, its merely as HUGE oversight and mistake.

Fallout is NOT about zero old folks and no children.....yet has very little of them. The real world is not this way, so why should a game that is suppose to be depicting this planet, not have the demographics of this planet?

Buddy, its why I even added the mods in Skyrim lol. My game on PC has kids of all races, different heights, ages etc Yes, I know its a game, but I want it to make universal sense bud.

[jb227]

Well Nate has zero training, Nadine Ross would've spent her entire life being trained in combat as a mercenary considering her father started the outfit.

From what I recall, Drake rarely went hand to hand w/ villains and got his butt handed to him when he did...Lazarevic actually beat the snot out of Drake when he tried, Navarro also beat him if I recall...Drake fought Talbot hand to hand and lost the first time, nearly lost the second and the only reason he was even holding his own was because Talbot was flustered after losing Marlowe, but even then Talbot nearly beat & murdered Drake there before getting helped by Sully.

Also, how does any of what you said confirm a race swap for the character? You are really reaching there. It's ironic to me that people are possessive of agendas that are based around trying to call out someone else for having an agenda. Neil, like the rest of the true creative types in gaming or any other medium are just realizing that these games should reflect the world outside a gamer's window. When I walk around I don't solely see middle aged fit white dudes. If a storyteller wants to make a story true to reality, they will naturally include many different races & genders...and sometimes one of those characters may be more physically fit than our aging out of shape protagonist who had been out of the game for a while.

[-Foxtrot]

Oh come on. Nate managed to take down highly skilled soldiers, most were gun play but they had a hand to hand combat feature for a reason. Are you saying none of those soldiers he went against had similar to training to Nadine...I mean come on.

She was potrayed as an amazing highly skilled expert. Not even Sam helping him could land a few hits on her in a row without her beating the shit out of them in a full on streak. It just didn't fit in with what we've seen in the past games. Fair enough if he got beaten but at least show he can fight, it looked like he had never done it before when fighting her.

Talbot, the final boss of U3 was a huge brawl where you actually were winning.

"Also, how does any of what you said confirm a race swap for the character?"

Neil is a massive Anita fan and loves her FF videos

Neil goes on about diversity and saying how they make sure "that people in the game are women and people of colour"

If Nadine was white like the actress then who else MAIN CHARACTER wise is black? Oh yeah no one else.

So they thought "shit we don't have a black actresses, we NEED DIVERSITY" and decide to make Nadine, the only suitable main character in the game black.

It's not hard to add up. They said it was a design choice but after this interview and what he's said it's obvious it was done to bring "balance" to the game.

[jb227]

@foxtrot

"Oh come on. Nate managed to take down highly skilled soldiers, most were gun play but they had a hand to hand combat feature for a reason. Are you saying none of those soldiers he went against had similar to training to Nadine...I mean come on."

That's a fair point, but you are also talking about NPC cannon fodder type of characters, so its really hard to assign individual weight to every person he'd ever scrapped with. Out of the main enemies from the series that were fleshed out a bit though, Nate getting beat in a hand to hand fight tracks w/ the entire history of the franchise. Nadine would've been a special case too because you are talking about a girl who was not only entrenched in a military type background for her entire life, surrounded by soldiers of all classes, she would've also been fairly rich, which would've allowed for the best of training. Even a bit beyond that, Nate even mentions or alludes to it at some point that he is fighting a girl, and it is an evolutionary trait that decent men have a hard time not pulling their punches when being attacked by a woman. Either way, I honestly think out of the entire history of villains in the series, Nadine's background points to her being the most capable hand to hand adversary Drake's ever had for sure.

As far as Talbot, Drake lost the first fight & he had the upper hand a couple times on the final battle, but ultimately it was Talbot straddling Drake nearly pushing a knife through his heart in the end, and it was Sully who had to step in and stop him from being flat out killed.

I mean don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the SJW bent to some stories these days that create forced inclusion instead of letting it come naturally. Maybe ND straddles that line, but the intention seems good to me. They aren't forcing diversity in order to make a buck, they are doing it out of personal conviction, which is a great deal more commendable.

I'm not up enough on Anita, what little I read about her & from what little I've seen, she is pretty awful. She has no real skin in gaming and that seems fairly evident. She is just profiting from being the big fish in a small pond by fighting this battle in a genre that isn't typically regarded on the whole for its narrative depth. Another good example of someone monetizing outrage & controversy while ultimately doing a disservice to the same causes they claim to be fighting for.

I mean you most likely could have a point about Nadine being a diversity addition, but I think it more likely that the character didn't exist at all and that she was added from day one as a person of color. If you look at her role in the story, she could feasibly be cut from the story entirely & it wouldn't have a huge impact. I agree that she could've been included to create diversity, but I don't think they've race swapped her at any point.

[rainslacker]

While true, Nate has also shown he has enough hand to hand combat skills killing other people to mean he wouldn't be quite so helpless when the boss fight...or cut scene comes. Not that he went up against trained martial artists most of the time, but half the characters you mentioned were not trained martial artists, simply proficient in hand to hand combat. Nate is often shown as being somewhat clunky when it comes to fisticuffs, but not during action game play sequences when it looks cooler to get that awesome death shot in.

I don't take issue with nadine, because she was obviously trained in some form of martial arts, and the Drake brothers seem more like street fighters. I'd be more critical of most of the others you mentioned, because they were in the same league as Drake for the most part. Maybe more proficient, but not so much that Drake would be that outmatched.

I personally have a laugh at the people who say Nate shouldn't have had such a problem with Nadine. You put a highly trained martial artist up against a rather slow and clunky fighter, and the trained martial artist is going to win every time.

But I take it for what it is. An action piece that needs some sort of heightened drama. I don't complain about it in a James Bond movie, or any action movie really, because it's just a trope of the action genre.

@Fox

And we've seen those highly trained solders also be able to take down Nate depending on how good someone is at the melee mechanics in the game. More often than not, hand to hand combat had Nate being beaten too unless you surprised the person and they never fought back.

[Rachel_Alucard]

@Foxtrot

Add all that plus the fact that they removed a "sexist" player from the focus group, when all he did was repeat what was said before about the Nadine fight scenes. In fact it was several focus testers who disagreed with the scene, but only one left.

http://www.gamespot.com/art...

[Saito]

@foxtrot if you think those basic cqc skills of foot soldiers/mercenaries compare to the practitioners of the real fighting arts then you are mistaken those soldiers had basic combat skills so even an unskilled brawler like Drake can have a good chance beating there asses but to compare to Nadine Lazarevic etc is ridiculous Drake cannot hang with combat experts on a bigger lvl than himself and that includes Sam but its really simple and no hard too understand the combat ability in UC cause actually it reflects much like reality cause ALMOST all soldiers mercs etc have basic combat abilities or none at all thats why most people specialize in gunplay Nadine like I who went through rigorous training and discipline schooling normal brawlers you find in a bar on a saturday night is no threat so the combat ability argument is mute really it is

[ShaunCameron]

Wasn't Ellie already a lesbian in the first TLOU DLC?

[GeraltOfRevia]

"God knows what he's going to do with Ellie in the Last of Us 2"

Nothing that will put the game's financial results in danger.

[babis1974]

today uncharted had an update, since then i can't play online? has anyone the same problem?

[Kingdomcome247]

I saw that it updated, but haven't tried to play the MP.

[LucasRuinedChildhood]

It's obviously not. Amy Hennig's departure always irked me, because she was a lot of the heart and soul of the company. Uncharted 4 was very good, but I'm kind of worried.

[jb227]

Hennig was the heart of the UC franchise, but not the entire company. Look at TLOU, if you enjoyed that game as much as everyone else, that is ND moving forward. I'm sure they will introduce more or less humor & levity based off of the theme of whatever game they are creating, but the ND of today is interested in creating complex weighty stories that examine real world topics & true human emotions.

Seems to me that ND will be just fine w/o Amy. She's going to be doing better than ever as well, having a huge platform w/ a new EA Star Wars game. I was bummed to hear Amy leave, but ultimately I think it'll work out best for everyone involved in the end. I'm personally looking forward to multiple amazing experiences moving forward from all parties.

[-Foxtrot]

I felt there was balance between the two

People always go on about Uncharted 3 not being as good because Amy wrote it when really it's mostly because it had a shorter time frame and it was Sony's way of getting another Uncharted out there while the iron was still hot after Uncharted 2. She did well considering how shorter the dev time was. Would I want a different Uncharted 3 if I could go back in time sure but again she still did alright, the game was great regardless

I just felt they made sure each others ideas didn't go one way. Like Uncharted 4 I felt some things they did, character wise and plot development wise wouldn't have been done if Amy had stayed. Hell Sam would have been a villain and god knows what Nadine Ross would have been like if they did that....would her role be the same, what about her design/looks.

With one gone I think Neil didn't have anyone to tell him no.

[PlatinumGX]

Yeah, what would Mario be without Toad, Donkey Kong and Birdo?

[Cy]

Wrong, but not at all surprising considering the source. Diversity is the least important aspect of a game, actually. Especially when it's forced in so douchebags can go out and virtue signal in interviews.

[cfc83]

Diversity as a business move more like it. They know the demographic of gamers are becoming more diverse, so now they want to coin it in. Caching.

[Rimeskeem]

I think a lot of people didn't take what he means by diversity the right way.

[Greyfoxdbz]

Diversity not as important as graphics and gameplay. I don't buy games based off whether my race is represented in the game. I buy it based on whether it looks good and is fun to play. I never thought, "ho shit, this game looks good, but the main character is a girl so fuck it".

[marioJP87]

Reminds me of the racist idiots who were causing a stir about watchdog's 2 main character being black.

[Christopher]

I don't remember it being about him being black, but about the ultra-hipster concept mixed with the 'hacktivist' element that most people see as attention-craving and not at all "honorable" or "heroic" "hacktivists".

[marioJP87]

No, it was about him being black. Google it:
http://fusion.net/story/311...

[Christopher]

Huh. That's sad. Though, I don't see an issue about not playing as Aiden again, but who cares if he's black and from SanFran? He could be Native American for all I care, it's really the 'over the top hacktivist' stuff I cringe at.

[3-4-5]

* If a game is the most diverse ever.....but isn't fun and isn't that good or of high quality, then what has including diversity actually accomplished for that game, those devs or gaming in general ?

* The overall game being enjoyable and fun matters......if they means there is a white guy then fine....black guy then fine....asian women then fine.....gay person...fine....athiest fine...muslim fine........

As long as it doesn't feel forced and politically correct and it feels natural then I am ok with it.

* When you start forcing me to think 100% like you and I have to agree with your politics and what not 100% of the time, that is when I'm out.....and that is what is starting to happen in Everything...not just games.

* People are concerned because in the past people push things on people and if there is any resistance that person "must be bad" or whatever the excuse.

There is a huge PC, forcing people how to think, and shaming others who don't agree campaign that is happening in this country right now.

^ It stems from politics....it's roots are political and it's bleeding over into everything else in this country.

40-50 control perverts are trying to dictate how 340 Million+ people get to think......and it's annoying most of us.

[opinionated]

I personally couldn't give a flying crap about identity politics so I whole heartedly disagree. It's importance is literally zero on my priorities list. The character is good or it isn't, that's all I see.

[jts1891]

No, a game can be great without diversity. It's literally one of the least important aspects of a game's story. As much as I hate using this word nowadays, only diehard SJW's remotely care about crap like this in video games.

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

It's their game. They have all the right to do as they please. What I have learned from the Nadine character is that it does not matter whether a developer does divertity right or wrong, anti Diversity folks will complain either way like as if it affects their daily lives to see something different. Now I disagree with that assessment that diversity is as importang as gameplay, but like I said it is their games. Every dev has their priorities

"Ooh but Nate barely landed a hit on Nadine... Imposibruuuuuu fk u ND"
"Oh but Nadine was smarter to leave the ship with all the treaure she could grab instead of wanting more and more and risk losing everything for the treasure obsecion like Nate and Rafe did... Fk u ND"

[NotEvenMyFinalForm]

"anti Diversity folks will complain either way"

Nah. The ones doing all the complaining were triggered tumblrinas and gaf when they discovered the actress doing Nadine was white.
http://www.playstationlifes...

And then there was more complaining from femfreq because Elena is not portrayed as an equal partner in arms within the marriage, Nathan and his brother feel like privileged white men killing many stereotypical men of color, and Nadine is singled out for not employing any women within her private army despite being a woman herself.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Aloy-Boyfriend]

Both being ridiculous claims. Who cares if a white person voices a black? Nate was white way before this SJW crap was a thing

[ShaunCameron]

So, pandering to groups that they otherwise wouldn't interact with under normal circumstances, women aside, is as important as gameplay and graphics? Okay.

[knickstr]

I would argue that story is, but what do I know.

[Big_Game_Hunters]

1. No
2 graphics aren't as important as gameplay.

[donwel]

You see naughty dog, GAMEplay should be paramount when we're talking about GAMEs, graphics are secondary and "diversity" should be nowhere near those two.
This shouldn't even be a conversation. This prick needs to apologise for wasting my time with this garbage.

[DaigotheKing]

No it's not. Gameplay is more important than graphics and diversity. Cause you know, it's a fucking game, and it's all about having fun. I don't give a fuck about color or sexuality in games cause I relate to peoples emotions and personalities, if you need someone to be like you to see them as a person you can empathize with then you can't call yourself a good person imo. People are people.

A person's skin color or their sexuality will do little for you in the long run, but heart and mind will make a big difference.

[rainslacker]

" I relate to peoples emotions and personalities, if you need someone to be like you to see them as a person you can empathize with then you can't call yourself a good person imo"

Best statement that could be made on the topic. So thought I'd make a list of good "diverse" characters who we liked not because they were diverse, but because we connected.

Chloe Price(Life is Strange) Lesbian. One could have a real connection to the character because we could understand her feelings of loss, and her anger at that loss being someone taken away from her, not lost naturally.

Faith Conners(Mirrors Edge) Asian: One could relate to her because she fought against a dystopian world where people give up their free will to live a placated life. Since this is something we normally are against either politically or subconsciously, we root for her, because she embodies our own ideals.

Lee Everett(The Walking Dead) Black: We liked him because he was just someone we could connect with. Our connection to Clementine(also black) was through his feelings for her, and the story made it so we wanted to protect her in the same way that Lee did.

Just three examples of more recent compelling diverse characters who's diversity had absolutely nothing to do with either their character or our connection to them.

I could also name non-diverse white males that make us feel the same way.

I could list more diverse ones as well, but when looking up examples, I was bogged down in more privileged white females as examples of diverse game characters that I actually felt kind of sick that that is considered diversity nowadays.

Then it dawned on me.

The new Lara Croft(the most common character to come up in the lists) is being hailed as some sort of diversity goddess for being a great representation of women. Yet she is just a privileged white female thrown into extraordinary circumstances. No different than her male counter part in say UC4. She is about as homogenized as the privileged male characters we typically hear complaints about. Then it dawned on me....again..., that her praise doesn't come from showing a great representation of women, it comes from the dev not making her an objectified representation of women. Which is fine I guess, but she is so uncompelling as a character that I can't say I connect to her, or even care what happens to her, because the devs don't try to make me care. Her only virtue as a character is that she's female, and not objectified, and it's sad that she gets so much credit for good representation of diversity and inclusion.

So, given the examples, and my epiphany about Lara Croft, I don't really see how diversity really has anything to do with anything at all....at least not if someone is trying to tell a compelling story, with interesting characters.

And sorry, didn't mean for this to turn into a rant.:)

[InTheZoneAC]

I don't mind diversity, I just don't want it to feel forced. What I don't want is a male tomb raider, an all female ghost buster crew, a gay star trek character, a female iron man JUST BECAUSE.

It is perfectly fine for different characters to play their role well, i just can't stand it when people mention diversity because immediately "forced" comes to mind.

[ajax17]

Ugh...

[iluvmaPS3]

This why I won't play unchartered games anymore.
Free speech is very important.

[47]

Diversity is fine, IF, it's natural. However, people like Druckman are all too eager to force diversity in a story simply so they can claim some bulls**t moral superiority. For example, people wanting women infantry in Battlefield 1. Women didn't fight on the frontlines in that war, diversity be damned. Druckman is good at his job, but his statement is beyond ridiculous. Gamers aren't stupid, we know when we are being force fed diversity simply for the sake of it and thankfully, gamers reject this.

[ShaunCameron]

But the problem is that diversity is rarely ever natural. More often than not, it's done with ulterior motives such as the one point you mentioned. Claiming moral superiority.

[Inzo]

No, no its not. Why must there be white or black, why must there be straight or gay? Lara Croft came into gaming at a time where you kicked ass to save the damsel, not have the damsel do the ass kicking and yet no one cared that she was a white british female because here was a great "character" in a great game, end of story.

[whiskyclone]

This is silly

[whiskyclone]

.

[WeAreLegion]

Well, don't ask the HR guy!

[sampson3121]

read below: the privileged are crying because they have to share the toys in the toy box. (picture crying baby sitting in front of toy box.)

[TheUpbringer]

The crazy thing is that it's actually not. A major feature of a game is something that can stand on its own even if another aspect of its fails. Telltale games lack decent gameplay, but the story helps it through that. The stories of FPS's may be shoddy, but their gameplay makes it fine anyway. If you have a game that's awful but diverse, no one is going to care. It's like saying having a homosexual main character softens the blow of a game that has awful controls and a story that is badly written.

It's gotten to the point where people are taking games way too seriously. If you want more diversity, then fine, create a game that integrates it well. But what has started as inclusion has morphed into pandering. We don't need developers playing the progressive card every 13 seconds. First and foremost is gameplay, that should be the one thing you focus on the most, not other additives.

[NotEvenMyFinalForm]

Exactly. Story and gameplay are probably the 2 most important parts in a game since those are the only aspects that can stand on its own. Diversity, sound, graphics are just pluses. Neither make or break games like the story or gameplay can.

Nathan Drake could be black and it wouldn't change a damn thing. But when you as a developer come with these rhetorics about diversity like an sjw hipster is just annoying because it's clear that this is nothing more than virtue signalling and I thought Druckmann was beyond that to be honest. Because I don't remember him bragging about the diversity in The Last of Us but now all of a sudden it's like the most important thing ever.

And for the record, I'm not even white myself, so for those with the mentality of "you won't understand because you're white", well, you'll have to shut up and sit down and try to come up with a better argument than that.

[TheUpbringer]

Actually, I think right around the release of The Last of Us is when Druckmann started to do that. He all of a sudden started mentioning them not testing for female demographic and fixing that (which is fine), he mentioned some things about Ellie's sexuality, then there was an article about letting go a tester who was allegedly sexist to Nadine Ross in Uncharted 4. I get that those sort of things happen, but is it really necessary to mention it? The kicker with diversity is that true diversity isn't something that's forced, it's something that naturally happens. Having a forced level of diversity brings people right back at square one, which is their obsessive attention leads to discrimination from a different angle. Rather than assimiliation (which is the whole goal of a diverse society) a lot of people aim to pridefully tout other people's differences, which is what Druckmann and others are starting to do.

[rainslacker]

Beautifully and eloquently well said.

[DerekFlint007]

I was highly critical of Druckmann's views and inputs regarding gaming several weeks ago. I think success from The Last Of Us has gone to his head and he was handed far too much control over decisions pertaining Uncharted 4. For a triple A big budget PS4 blockbuster to still be hamstrung using the over familiar tropes of crate pushing and buddy lifts to attain higher areas shows a real lack of vision on his part as a co director. I can't stand this pansy pandering to political correct bull$h!t that Druckmann and others spout. I'm all for diversity, but ONLY if and when the narrative requires it. Simply shoehorning in black, white, lesbian or others into a game because you want to appease the PC crowd tells me that you are not a mans man, but are in fact a liberal lefty spouting buffoon. A terrible example of this pandering was Resident Evil 5 which was set in Africa. The first trailer looked incredible but because of the whining cry baby lefties by the time the game got to market the 'African' zombie hordes consisted of whites, Asians and Hispanics. I'm surprised they didn't go the whole way and add in some eskimos.

[Tobsesan]

Couldnt care less what ethic / gender the Charakters are

[quent]

Diversity is fine and all, but don't let it interfere with your creative vision for what you want to create just to try and appeal to a wider demographic,I really don't like this kind of PR speak, something a publisher/exec would say, don't tell us how and why we should take your word for why its important, show us, give an example of how its important.

[rainslacker]

I think Druckmann is making the games he wants to make. He's doing the things he wants to do, and like any piece of art, it's going to reflect the artist in some way. In this case, what's reflected is his ideals on diversity.

My only "problem", for lack of a better word, is that I feel he may be doing it to just be diverse, whether because he feels he has to be, or because he wants to be. If one has to think, "how can I make this diverse", it's putting more important aspects on the back burner, and those aspects then have to be adjusted to make something diverse. In other words, the diversity is forced in, as opposed to simply being natural to whatever is there.

Nothing wrong with just saying, lets make this character black without the need to think of doing it just because it's diverse. Just do it because one feels it would work, and is the best thing for their creation. No need to rationalize to everyone why something is diverse, or that you want to be diverse. Just make what you want to make, but try to make it something that is focusing on the right things when creating it.

If changing a character from white to black has no bearing on any other aspect of the game beyond the texture used just so you can have a black character, then it's not diversity. It's pandering at best, agenda driven at worst. If one does it because they just like it better, then that is actually diverse, because it means doing something for your game which you feel is the best for it, not what everyone else feels would be best.

[icerob]

I think its forced and a often a big turn off in games as in movies. Look at the trend.. Ghostbusters, Iron Man (now a 15 year old black girl), Star Wars (both new movies have female leads plus a black main lead), Thor supposedly is a female now.. waiting for James Bond to be made a black male or even a female.. also all the new movies with 100 pound females just kicking everybody´s ass like they are The Hulk. How about we make Shaft white and Laura Croft a white male?

[TomRL]

It's amazing to me that one of the best writers/developers in the industry thinks race is AS IMPORTANT as gameplay. Doesn't that get your alarm bells ringing that someone is so obsessed with the race of characters in stories? What a nutter.

[Saito]

i wish ppl played games like they use to instead we bicker over the games we create and over critique everything THERES NO FUN IN GAMING ANYMORE

[Kurdishcurse]

Hes full of crap then. Gameplay in uncharted was a hilariously underwhelming, lazily repetitious and quite thoughtlessly put together. Not to mention the enemy variety comparable to monopoly and the cringe worthy AI + stealth elements.