The Attack on Titan: Wings of Freedom Demo was playable at MCM Comic Con London this weekend. Find out what we made of it!
The PS5 Pro price announcement has caused quite a stir, so here's a gaming PC build you might want to go for instead
But, but, but ... you need to pay 2-3 times as much as a console for the same performance /s
You also need a subscription to play online on PlayStation, which is free on PC, with cheaper games and free weekly games on Epic Game Store, Humble Bundle, etc. If you're subscribed to Amazon Prime: Free Games.
Everything is cheaper on PC. At least you don't need to replace the CPU or RAM. Every generation, you can replace the GPU for the same price as a PlayStation 5 Pro.
The same people that say "At least you don't need to replace the CPU or RAM when you upgrade your PC" are the same people saying "PS5 Pro is gonna suck because they didn't replace the CPU or RAM!".
This build is comparing a 6 core CPU to an 8 core in Pro, a PCI-E x4 SSD with a max 5,150MBps read and 4,900MBps write to PS5 Pro's SSD with 8-9 GB/s thanks to its dedicated hardware compressor/decompressor, the Radeon GPU lacks the RDNA4 raytracing features found in Pro, it costs as much as a Pro with a 4K Blu-Ray drive added on but it doesn't have a disc drive, and they didn't include the price of the operating system or a keyboard, mouse, and controller.
This isn't even considering PSSR, 3D audio, or haptic feedback that are missing from this PC build.
This is a ridiculous comparison... Sorry PCMR, you're going to have to try harder than that.
You can absolutely compare a 6 core desktop CPU to the PS5 CPU, especially one that outperforms a PS5 in both single AND multithreaded performance in spite of the core differential.
fr0sty making more sense than the PC faithful here.
PC games are more expensive unless you pirate. I'm shocked at how PC guys continually don't get that physical media bought used and or sold used is a cheaper option. PC never competes on a tight budget. And the tweaking is not for most people either.
Exactly @Frosty, simple minded people will at the article at face value and not read it and anyone who reads will see what they did and the false equivalencies they are using.
@CrimsonIdol When you begin to look at bandwidth between the CPU and GPU, ram speed, etc the argument falls apart. You also need to look at things like system overhead and APIs - console APIs in general tend to yield a few percent performance difference.... that few percent is near equivalent to moving up one model of hardware for all but feature set purposes. You cant build a PC that'll match a base PS5 for 450- the extra couple hundred bucks are not going to make the PC keep up with a PS5.... Digital Foundry themselves say the closest to PS5 pro in raw performance comparison on PC is a 4070...The PS5 pro is going to include a controller ( which is over 50 bucks, so please include that in your PC cost) so the base system cost is 650. If you think you can build the rest of the PC behind the 4070 including a gig or two of 5gbps storage for 100 dollars be my guest.
"But, but, but ... you need to pay 2-3 times as much as a console for the same performance /s"
It's actually true. These builds are never as cheap and/or powerful as the console they claim to compete with.
In this case the GPU is a gen behind, does not compete with upscaling (PSSR) nor raytracing nor video ram. The SSD is less than half the performance. You'd have to add a few things like windows and a controller.
While I'd largely agree that you pay an extra couple hundred to put a better PC together, Thanks to the extra $200US premium you pay to buy it in Australia you can put together an RTX 4070 system for less that's absolutely going to be better for gaming performance than a PS5. RT will be better. An SSD matters for loads, not having the absolute fastest doesn't matter nearly as much as you think. It's great the PS5 has all but removed the HDD bottleneck for loading, this ends shifting the bottleneck to the next thing: the CPU. after all, the game generally has to do something with that data. While it's a great idea to shift the streaming and compression to a dedicated bit of kit in practice, rarely if ever do multiplat titles actually load faster on PS5 to PC, even when the PC has Gen 3 NVMe. In fact as DF proved, even on the PS5 the fast SSD doesn't actually make any difference compared to if the PS5 SSD is forced to run at gen 3 speeds.
DF said a lot of BS about PS5s SSD before it launched. PC ended up with massive issues with compilation stutter that still effects many games to this day. Only recently did DF sheepishly admit the PS5s lightning quick IO was actually not handled the same on the PC side. Furthermore SSD is about more than load times. Load times are only a nice bonus. It's about asset management in game for next gen engines. UE5 games will need that too. This build would get trounced in years time if not at launch.
I hate to break this to you but there's upscaling tech available for every game ever on PC for less than £5 on Steam which even helps decade old PC play modern games smoothly. It even has 4x frame generation and works for games, videos, emulation, everything. PSSR could have been on PS5 too but they chose not to.
"there's upscaling tech available for every game ever on PC for less than £5 on Steam which even helps decade old PC play modern games smoothly"
What are you referring to specifically?
Even if it was cheaper and stronger I wouldn’t build or buy a pc. I moved on from pc during the ps4 gen. Don’t have the time or patience anymore. I’d rather buy multiple consoles and game in whatever room is convenient. I’ve been waiting for the pro to buy a 3rd ps5.
Exactly. I have a 4K PC rig and though I thought I might play games on it, I never have. On PC you are always fiddling and spend far less of your free time actually playing games. Switch on and play within a minute is the only way for me. Maybe the tech fiddling and looking up best settings is something younger people like to do - I got bored of it and stopped gaming on PC around 20 years ago. No desire to go back despite having the rig to do so.
Choices are good though and someone with no PC I would advise to get one over a console because there is so much else you can do with it. I will always choose a hardware console to actually game on. As a committed gamer, its the best place to play uninterrupted games for me and my circs, but 'horses for courses'.
@oldduffer
What fiddling are you doing? Most of the modern games (within the last decade plus) even make it easier by having a general toggle or slider of Quality settings to Performance settings.
@oldduffer - too much work to wake the computer from sleep, launch the Steam app and click the play button?
if you have a 4K PC rig, what in gods name would you be fiddling with? I have an 8600K + 3080 and I don't have to fiddle at all.
@Neonridr - Dealing with all the other apps on the PC, the rebooting, buying the OS to begin with- instability issues, the DRIVERS for various devices and believe me once you start trying to use different headsets or other things on PC it does work usually pretty well but its not as simple as a console- everything is not as integrated. Yes Steam generally works fine- but when you buy a game you DO have to check if it will even run as intended on your system (not a thing on console) - and there are other aspects that make it less smooth than a console- I am a systems engineer professionally- I use and deal with computer systems all day long and for me, or you maybe it isnt fiddling but it isnt as straight forward as a console. A pS5 or a switch or something- you literally just put the disk or cart in (there is some install process for the Playstation side not on the switch) and it shows up on your front dash board, you launch it, everything is compatible, works out of the box and your settings are good to go - I can understand the appeal. I dont hate on either platform- but to say a PC isnt more fiddley- its someone whos never had a RAM stick go bad or some other issue- now try to get support for your PC when its just crashing , even if you JUST got the parts and built this PC yourself- now you need to figure out whats wrong, you dont get to just CALL someone and get a replacement - if the game isnt running as expected - you dont just know that the game needs a a patch or that all users are experiencing this- it can be something with YOUR rig- either somethintg from the beginning or something that happened randomly while you owned it like an update.
The biggest issue with PC gaming is the games that either release late on the platform, or don't release at all. GTA VI is the most anticipated entertainment product in history, yet PC will have to wait at least a year for it.
All of the games here will be day one on pc
But ps5 will have to wait ?
https://i.ibb.co/TkZKzyM/Sc...
Not one smart person would go through a bargain bin parts list to build a pc that is out of date and would need an upgrade that would replace the motherboard and cpu to move forward.
Let alone the generic gpu,
God the desperation from pc/microsoft kids is astonishing.
If platforms want to be popular… then do what is best… make wanted games.
You absolutely will spend a minimum of $1,400 on a pc build.
2k + for solid 1440p or 4K gaming,
This build would be 1440p max at mid settings but getting the best performance out of 1080p.
This cheap build does not come close to what the ps5 pro would offer in gaming or visual quality,
“Roughly” the same price…
And any person who built this pc would feel stupid after doing so.
@Neo
Many would… yes.
The ps5 is not out of date.
Not in today’s gaming market.
You have the anchor that is the Xbox s to thank for that.
You have the overwhelming majority of the pc community gaming on old rigs pushing 1080p to thank for that.
Gaming is only as good as the games being released.
Since not many companies are doing anything to push gaming other than a pixel count… how is any gaming device “out of date”?
My point, for those interested, $700 for an updated console with an exclusive chipset for ray tracing, double the gpu, and what is already the fastest component communication in any console is a good deal in todays market.
Is the ps5 pro what I wanted? No.
Why?
Because the reality is gaming is at a stand still.
The majority of developers only want cash cows and micro transactions.
The only way to gain said profits in today’s market is to be on as many devices as possible with cheap development tools/production.
A “pro” version today should come with a display port for monitor support, low latency competition, high refresh rates etc..
The gaming popularity of today is online PvP gaming…
A hole in console gaming due to the lack of support for the above.
All with the comfort of a locked system that would be better suited to combat cheating that has plagued pc gaming in said genre.
But but we are worried we gonna look stupid so we need to keep putting these articles out there cause we have to justify how much more important pcs are even though the entry level to compete with a console yet to be released mind, has just shot up. Stop very poor value for money for the pc if you ask me
7700XT ? Dont make me laugh :-)
But it is pricier than I expected. I think half way between PS5 and actual PS5 Pro price would make it a hit. This is steep even for me.
I've shown several builds that put the price point at around $800 dollars which is what the total would be. If you wanted the ps5 pro & disc drive (since console players are going to die on that hill) You can add another 70 if you want a second controller. So in if you want that disk drive & another controller you need to add another 150 to the total making it $850.
Nobody comments on the system, but rather on how I've added the cost of a controller and disk drive.
it comes with a controller - cool, guess you don't need another if you have nobody to play with...ever
disk drive - "I don't need it "(despite console players constantly complaining about digital only)
The stand - "I don't need it" (which is the only reasonable thing I've heard)
It's a stigma that PC is soooo expensive. I've got friends who I play online with daily who built systems for around 1k, and they aren't complaining. They know they didn't build the king kong of PC's, just enough to play some of the modern stuff at good frame rates.
Have fun waiting for games. No GTA, No Astrobot, No Spiderman 2, no Final Fantasy 7, no Plucky Squire, no Gran Tursimso, among many others. I'm convinced the PC argument comes from angry Xbox fanboys.
You never needed twice the price to match the PS5 PRO. That's a myth.
Does that make the PS5 PRO a bad deal? Definitely not.
If I had a PS5 already I would choose the PS5 PRO simply because I can just trade my PS5.
But If I had to spend $700+ from scratch - I would definitely go with a PC.
I have control over performance across all my games. I don't need to wait on a patch. I save money on games and free online play. I can upgrade my components whenver I'm ready to.
Just do what's best for you.
The other thing to note is the tech the have included with exception to the 350 gpu is old out of date crap so you defo have to upgrade that very soon. Also no peripherals. Another 50, no OS another 70. Ram is ddr 4 ffs, motherboard is a b550, that's old man. Wake up, and the fact they make assumptions about the ps5 pro memery management just makes you realise how much rubbish this add is talking about.
Does the PC build's GPU in the article have PSSR? I didnt think so
Nvidia has DLSS 2.0 and AMD has FSR, which are superior to anything on consoles. DLSS 2.0 remains one of the most innovative upscaling technologies on the market.
DLSS is actually up to 3.5 now with higher quality upscaling, frame generation, and ray reconstruction.
You're talking about PSSR as if it's locked into its current state forever... they've already updated it once recently and improved its quality, and the system isn't even out yet. There also have been no direct comparisons between it and FSR or DLSS, so to say either is better is just guessing.
Comments like these reminds me that console only gamers don't know anything about the hardware they game on. And even less about what's available on PC.
Sony didn't invent upscaling technology. DLSS has been around and baked into GPUs for 7 years.
@baba why do you care? Lol, you xbox fanatics are going crazy over the pros existence. Mind your own business and let people spend their money the way they want to.
@Frosty FSR is available on all GPUs. AMD, Nvidia, and Intel.
So it is on topic. This technology is not new.
Unfortunately, no AMD GPU has AI image upscaling capabilities. PSSR is Sony's attempt to start development in that area, however, one thing to note is that this will be the first iteration of PSSR. When we look back at Nvidia's DLSS or Intel's XeSS, the first iteration is usually nothing special.
We will likely see better utilization of PSSR with the second iteration when the PS6 releases.
“ We will likely see better utilization of PSSR with the second iteration when the PS6 releases”
(Slow clap) Incredible foresight.. unf*ckin believable…
@Fr0sty There is a difference between AMD's FSR and the options what Nvidia or Intel has to offer. FSR uses an open-source algorithm to upscale the images while the competition uses an AI algorithm. An advantage of FSR compared to the others is that FSR can be implemented on almost any GPU while the technologies that uses AI tend to see superior performance but is preparatory to each respective platform.
@divine, and PSSR is one of the aforementioned AI solutions, so it should yield superior quality.
These are fake, that GPU is not the same performance, even if they want to act like it is. And they are using much slower memory.
PS5's GPU is using RDNA 4 tech that AMD hasn't even released themselves yet.
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Stop with the nonsense and let console gamers be console gamers. Ain’t no one wanting to play with the biggest cheating crowd on the planet or wait a year to play games like Astro Bot.
Imagine spending nearly £1k on a console in 2024. while PC is the cheapest option, cheap games, with free weekly games on the Epic Store.
@Master_Rid
Interesting way to rationalize being ripped off long term. But I suppose sunk cost will do that.
Eh not for me. I have a PC and I'd spend far more on games if that were where I primarily gamed simple for the fact they're all digital
Digital Foundry's Richard Leadbetter compared the PS5 Pro GPU to NVIDIA's GeForce RTX 4070 and said a PC with those specs would cost more.
And it has features no PC does yet. Good price for what you get. Just very high for a console. The more I read the more I want it though.
Spiderman 2 isn't an "old gen" title. Neither is Hogwarts. Horizon's DLC they showed is PS5 only. GT7, cross gen or not, is the best looking console racer out there (Even DF agrees there). Not to say they couldn't have done a better job, but they weren't strictly "old gen" titles.
Well, it locks you into a single digital store ecosystem, restricts access to many unlicensed accessories, and includes a subscription service for online play, which requires paying for the privilege of playing online in premium games. It also offers the option to place it vertically if you purchase an extra accessory and limits your options for mods and backward compatibility.
So yeah, it does offer a lot of features that a PC doesn’t. /s
Machine learning, but that'll soon make it's way onto PC. So basically it has nothing special.
@Vits everything else you said is a minor to me but the single reason I'm worried about an all digital future on consoles is the single digital store ecosystem. Physical is always cheaper in the UK for a brand new release. The day consoles go digital only will be the day I start gaming on a PC, no matter how troublesome it can be.
@Inverno
' - '
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi...
@KyRo
The shift to a digital future for consoles is likely to be a major issue for many people. While physical media is almost obsolete on PCs, there are still numerous stores and distribution channels available for the digital games.
But backward compatibility and accessory use are also significant concerns. Often, consoles push new "remasters" and updated versions of accessories, like fighting pads and taiko drums, that are only necessary because older ones aren’t supported. And that really sucks, especially when you already have spent quite a lot on the previous version that works just fine.
No dedicated 3D audio hardware, no dedicated hardware decompression chips (so PCs have to use their GPUs, which takes some of their GPU power in the process), no haptic feedback, no PSSR, no RDNA 4 ray tracing tech (yet).
The Pro isn't a digital only console, either, you can add the attachable blu-ray drive that the PS5 slim uses to it.
What features?
Hopefully we´ll see those in action enhancing actual current gen games at TGS and the next State of Play later this month.
@frosty
PC have dedicated audio cards but also don't even need dedicated 3D audio hardware as most audio is handled by the CPU these days. PCs have far more powerful CPUs so having dedicated hardware doesn't really matter.
PCs also don't need dedicated decompression chips because CPUs and GPUs have so much raw power that it isn't necessary. Just like the 3D audio hardware it's only useful on console because you're limited in power for the generation, so dedicated hardware frees up some extra juice for longevity.
No PC doesn't have PSSR. PC has DLSS, XESS and more advanced versions of FSR than consoles get. PSSR is only a benefit because PS5 doesn't have DLSS, the most advanced and most iterated AI upscaling solution on the market.
Most of the PC market is Nvidia who are years ahead of AMD when it comes to raytracing performance and features. Having RDNA4 raytracing features before PC doesn't mean much without even knowing what those features are or what they do compared to RTX.
Read the post above yours... PC lacks dedicated hardware decoding, it has to rely on the GPU to do it (which takes some GPU power), it lacks a dedicated 3D audio chip, it lacks haptic feedback, it lacks RDNA4 ray tracing tech, it lacks a 36TFLOP GPU in a $700 system...
"The more I read the more I want it though."
Marginal gains even for PS4 games. The new RT chip in action is far from impressive and had Hogwarts Legacy´s performance capped at 30fps.
It's far more impressive than anything in the $600 2TB Xbox Series X that only has 1/3 the raw compute power in its GPU, and more impressive than anything you can get in a PC for $700.
Are you self aware of how sad and pathetic you are, or are you still on that journey? Just curious, what motivates you to pop up in every PlayStation thread and criticize, marginalize, and downplay? Jeez dude, show us on the doll where Sony touched you! I think THIS is your actual hobby, not gaming.
@fr0sty.
Man, Xbox/PC gamers are really in their feels over this Pro console aren't they? LMAO! I can't wait to upgrade! It's going to be awesome! Let the haters stew in their own misery.
Regardless. It's still thr most powerful console in the world. GTA6 will sell like hotcakes just because of the PS5 and PS5 Pro and it will be the best console to play it on 😁
I've still got 8 PCs in my home office, and that is after giving away 2 in the last few months. The last thing I need is more PCs, so when it's time to play games I fire up my PS5
If you're asking for a source on whether or not DLSS is the best you are completely out of your depth.
Nvidia has like 3 generations of experience with it and they also charge insane prices for their cards.
And when was this analysis done? Oh right it hasn't been done yet. Soooo.....you are just saying words for the hell of it.
@Grevious this is 100 percent true and why it really isn't all that surprising that DLSS is the best. Now what ps5 pro and even ps5 have going for them is that a comparable PC would likely run you twice or next to twice the cost. What AMD has going for it is much better price for performance.
Our phones do what most PCs does... We're buying these for games, not to do our taxes.
Looking forward to Andy, it's amazing how many pc trolls jumping in these articles. It's almost like they worried. Constantly telling us about poor quality third party accessories and mods. Other great things they can do on there pc. Wish they would all just go do all them great pc things and leave the ps5 pro articles alone.
Machine learning already exist on PC I thought there was a feature that wasn’t on PC that I didn’t see when they announced it.
it has a dedicated raytracing chip which is not available to AMD cards just yet, future AMD cards will also have this feature probably more advanced then its console counterpart, but as of right know its exclusive to the PS5 Pro
obviously nvidia cards have had it for quite some time and that is why the PS5 Pro is being compared to the nvidia 4070 by some tech experts
While this is true, the machine learning features don't tie into the ray tracing stuff, different hardware involved. The ML stuff is what powers FSR on AMD GPUs, DLSS on Nvidia GPUs, and PSSR in PS5 Pro. AI-assisted frame-reconstruction to enable higher resolution output from lower resolution renders.
AMD has FSR, but PSSR is supposed to exceed it. It's said to be comparable to Nvidia's DLSS.
Most people are looking at the reconstruction ability of what’s been shown and saying it’s better than FSR. Therefore It would be closer to DLSS and considering its brand new tech could exceed it even. As for proof there likely won’t be any until launch.
@fr0sty, Why are you so hard trying to defend the PS5 Pro? As many mentioned already, you have no idea what you are talking about.
I think he is talking about PS version of DLSS. They think Sonys will rival Nvidias. I say no way.
Those who want the upgrade and can afford the upgrade hey good for them. I'll stick to my slim if I had $1100 for an upgrade I would build a PC.
As the article says, you won't build a PC anywhere near as powerful for what you can buy a Pro for, and even then it still would lack features you can only get on PS5.
DF are obviously pandering to the console watchers, why they'd do that I have no idea. Even Hardware Unboxed said 30fps was "terrible" I mean if you take into account todays standards, they aren't wrong.
Now DF says "30fps ain't bad".
If you want actual decent advice on a better PC for not much more then watch: https://youtu.be/VMZeiTxT-l...
Except my current PC still blows away the PS5 pro. Its nice being able to upgrade like you can on PCs over time.
There's already videos of people building PCs for the same price as a PS5 pro, with better performance on the PC. I think df are just smoking some good stuff.
@frosty yes that was already known ever since more moderns consoles started coming out, what's your point? just like the fact that consoles will never be stronger than pc, should I also put that sentence on repeat?
Don't worry everyone. Just follow ColtEastwood on X he will sort out a PS5 Pro killer pc. His builds are so good they don't even need RAM as apparently the VRAM on the GPU is enough lmfao can't make this up.
https://ibb.co/FsWD2b2
"OK, do us all a favor, pull the RAM out of your computer and boot your PC only using your VRAM, tell us how that goes." lol
Funny how as the console war comes to an end the Xbox warriors are now part of the PCMR.
@michiel, exactly! And all of a sudden all these messages about how PCs are better.
As if PCs were suddenly invented...
@crazy each platform still has mostly the same pro's and cons that it had 20 years ago and i don't see that changing anytime soon, hell nintendo even insists on always being the weakest one in terms of power of the 3 and somehow they keep making it work.
That is actually really, really good, especially for a console.
If I'm impressed by the games at the next showcase I will get one.
I'm waiting for the next round of games by all of Sony's studios....none of them have gotten a chance to release anything yet.
Wow software. Decent level headed comment. Nice. "Next showcase" one of the few Xbox centric people who realizes they didn't show anything at the 9 min. presentation because they have another event planned. A lot of disingenuous Xbots and PC gamers in here.
Raven,
I'm always level-headed :).
Despite what is perceived, I have bought every single PS console since PS1, I remember living in NYC and going downtown to the Sony building just to play the display/kiosk, I was blown away, me and my brothers saved up and bought one shortly after.
I'm a gamer first(and like Nintendo the most) and you will be hard-pressed to find any post where I aimlessly diss Sony, I do defend Xbox, but it's only because I like the system as well, and some people on here go outta their way to crap on the system, Xbox hate on this site is overwhelming.
Push Square writes: "Sony has published a new PlayStation Accessories app for PC that allows DualSense Edge owners to access the entire suite of features the high-end controller has to offer."
Traversal looks fun.