Are Gamers Overreacting to the PlayStation Neo?

ScreenCritics explores why gamers are taking their negative reaction too far?

[Genuine-User]

Some either don't want to understand or are probably afraid of change, in my opinion.

I'm tired of reading bullsh** one sided arguments with bizarre illusions that consumers will get shafted and how iterative consoles are such a terrible idea.

[Aenea]

That's the thing, it seems you are one of those people who thinks it's gonna be all positive and you don't seem to understand that there are people out there who might think differently!

I see upsides and downsides...

[Saigon]

Just wondering, what are your upsides and downsides. I don't see how this is a big issue if it doesn't affect the current generation or should I say the current PS4 install base.

[Genuine-User]

That is not true. Some have genuine concerns, and some are all doom and gloom.

[Eonjay]

No gamers are not overreacting at all. Its just on forums. But they overreact to everything.
The comments here or the opinions from bloggers rarely ever manifest into reality. Its just a show for us to entertain ourselves with.

[NewMonday]

so far all concerns are "what if this and this" and not from the actual proposition of Neo

[captain_slow82]

when i first heard i was like no this is just bad news and i dont want it.
then i got thinking all the way back to the ps1 era
got a launch ps1 then got the ps1 slim same goes for ps2 xbox 360 an the elite an same for the ps3 fatty/an slim

was playing gta 5 online over the weekend an was suffering lots of frame drops so maybe this time around rather than spend more money on the slim versions like i always have this time get abit of an upgrade where i dont get frame drops an better over all gaming experience

sounds like money well spent to me over a slim all the above is just my own opinion

[ninsigma]

And most on the opposite side think it's gonna be all negative, even though what they say (while some being genuine concerns) completely go against what was actually leaked.

[Brugal]

Why don't we all just wait for an announcement.

[wsoutlaw87]

Aenea The problem is, you are acting like this comes down to just opinion. The fact is, sony is releasing a version of the ps4 that is slightly more powerful for the people who want it and it will have no affect on the current ps4. Games are already made scale-able and it is nothing like pc where the configuration possibilities are endless. They both have the same architecture. Anyone who acts any different is definitely over reacting or doesn't know what they are talking about. If you have some sort of need to have the best version of something thats out there, then you should work on that problem because that would be very expensive and you would need to be a billionaire for that. Do you ask sony not to put out a new tv every year? how about phones? What about pc gpu upgrades? Do you move to a bigger house when ever one gets built? Buy a car every year? It is 100% optional so if you act like sony some how did a disservice to you because they did a product update after 3 years, then you are over reacting.

[Kingthrash360]

Wsoutlaw

Well that about sums that up.
We'll said +bub.
I mean....umm....dam n4g needs a star system or something...that's a 5 star comment my friend.

[Aenea]

@wsoutlaw
Nope, the problem is people like you are oversimplifying things, development is not like you say it is and then you tell me I don't know what I'm talking about? That's bloody hilarious. You claim it will have no effect on the current PS4, some people believe it will have eventually. That might sound like an opinion but it's just using knowledge how development and this particular industry seems to be working with their tight deadlines.
And then you go on telling that the need to have the best of things is wrong, well sorry, gaming is my hobby and if there is a device out there that can play my games smoother and make them better looking you bet your arse I want it, but it's not something I do with everything, I've used a bloody Samsung flip phone for 10+ years until I finally upgraded last year. Your comparison with TVs and phones and anything else is weak and it's totally not the same, and I really don't get people who don't understand that...

[joab777]

I am usually very good at putting myself in other people's shoes, I just don't see the negative here. I won't buy one when it launches, and I love my PS4. I'm happy with what it does. But I love knowing that Sony is gonna give us even something better when and if I do buy another one. Instead of just some stupid cosmetic upgrade, it will be a real one.

They will phase out the old machines, and give us a better quality one. This doesn't mean that what we have now isn't spectacular. I mean c'mon. Look at U4, DS3, and so many other games. What's there to be unhappy about?

[wsoutlaw87]

"gaming is my hobby and if there is a device out there that can play my games smoother and make them better looking you bet your arse I want it,"
So you want it then. I didn't say you were wrong for wanting it, you would just be wrong for not wanting it to come out just because you want it. If you want everything game related thats better, you are still going to need a lot of cash because a lot of pcs out there destroy your ps4 and if you buy every new upgrade, it will add up fast. And no it would absolutely not effect development on the original ps4 in any meaningful way. Your response to that proves you don't know what you are talking about and are dealing in hypotheticals not reality.

wow good response. I directly responded to your post thats just 2 posts up from here.

[MaddisonWatkins]

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[Kyizen]

A ton of people are just like I hope this fails. That doesnt make any sense...there are some downsides for sure but very few. New tech is always welcomed in my book and a ton of people are still happy playing ps3 and dont even own a ps4 and thats fine too, choice is never a bad thing.

[Aenea]

@wsoutlaw
Sigh, I think we were arguing about something else and I even asked you a question you completely ignore and still claim I don't know what I'm talking about, keep on living in a fantasy world. Buhbye

[rainslacker]

And some people have the impression that it's all sunshine and rainbows and that the rumors somehow are confirmation that everything will be great going forward while dismissing any negative connotations that may exist from possible outcomes of the actual implementation.

One would think after all this time, that the negative side of most things that get rumored or announced that gets ignored now, get complained about later.

@wsoutlaw way down below, since N4G seems to limit the number of comments one can make in a thread.

"Where did I say there would be no change to the api?"

It's right there in your first reply to me.

"The api wouldnt change at all"

Not sure how else I can interpret that other than "the api won't change". It's right there for everyone to see....do you deny saying it? Am I wrong? Does everyone else not see that and I'm just delusional? Does your argument become valid when you deny what you actually said? Does mine become invalid when you deny it because you can try to discredit me with the "strawman" accusation? If you talked about the changing API, I would have responded to you differently.

Go learn what API's do, how they work with different system layers, then come back and talk about it with some knowledge. While your at it, learn about what low level actually means, and how it pertains to consoles and what exactly system layers are and why it's important to what I'm talking about, if not the entire point. My reply to you should give you a good base to start from. You don't "add to API's" like that. API's are written to specific layers of different system protocol. In the case of consoles, they're written directly to the hardware completely circumventing several layers that exist on PC. You have two different sets of hardware, no matter how similar, they use different API's if you don't have any other layers involved. The only way around it is adding a layer...known as abstraction. That's as simply as I can explain it, and everything I said is verifiable and documented extensively on the internet, and using some terms in this paragraph should give you a decent head start on verifying what I say.

"At no point would it have to be dropped in order to take advantage of the new hardware."

Eventually it will. Backwards compatibility can remain, but perpetual forward compatibility is not sustainable for the long term. For reference, go research the history of x86, and see how trying to hold onto legacy support hindered it's advancement until they finally could just emulate legacy code.

I had a lot more to enlighten you on the discussion, but N4G also still has a character limit, so I leave the research up to you.

[Genuine-User]

I have a positive outlook but its not all sunshine and rainbows.

What negative element of any credible relevance has been rumoured?

[TheCommentator]

That's a trick question, Genuine, because rumors are not credible. Only facts are.

The major downside I see to all of this upgraded console business is this: Lots of people complained about how this generation had started off weaker than previous generations in terms of processing, and now they feel like they are being mistreated by having a new console come out with the extra power launch consoles were lacking. Basically, we paid for a companies' success as early adopters and now we have to buy their console again to get the best graphics possible. If a new console does release, how can we trust that the company we support won't have a replacement for the upgrade in another 2-3 years?

[SavingPvt_Highon]

@Saigon You nailled it. There's no downside to it. You'll be playing the same exact games on both systems. I think because it's still in 'rumor' form, the internet is going crazy. E3 should set the bar straight, but Sony does have their work cut out for them in how to market this thing. My guess is, the benefits from having the Neo is related to Morpheus, and it's going to make you VR games perfom better graphically. Just my opinion.

[rainslacker]

It's not what's rumored that could be negative, it's possible scenarios that could play out in the long run.

I've stated what they are on many occasions, and get all these disagrees, and even been called a Sony hater.

But briefly and without much detail added

-cross gen port mentality becoming commonplace
-lack of developers taking the time to really utilize the newer hardware to it's full potential
-change that legacy hardware will not be supported as long as some people believe
-the chance we'll just be doing this all over again
-forward compatibility actually holding game design back as requiring legacy support doesn't allow games to be designed for new hardware
-consoles not being designed to maximize cost vs performance because a refresh can fix everything
-The liklihood that higher level API's will be implemented as opposed to low level API's to facilitate the portability of code, you know, kind of how it is on PC, and the sole reason that PC required higher end hardware to perform the same task(known as brute forcing).
-The absolute fact a new console refresh like this won't stop the complaining which supposedly everyone is complaining about(under-powered consoles).

I'm willing to look at the positive possibilities, but watch the disagrees roll in, and my concerns dismissed as they have been for the past month.

I may be overly pessimistic, but I don't feel that my concerns are invalid, nor do they make me against the idea. Just get tired of all this dismissal and lack of people even trying to look at the big picture, and taking everything at face value...particularly over an unsubstantiated rumor. Not sure why people feel it would kill them, or their desires, or make them not optimistic to at least address these possible scenarios instead of accepting whatever may come as something awesome with no negative ramifications.

[Satou]

There are upsides and downsides.

The main downside I can think is that they'll have you pay twice for the best system, but could have easily just had a more powerful system to begin with.

Consider paying $399 at launch and another $399-499 for the Neo, that's $800-900.
Now imagine if they just would release a higher spec console option at launch for $499-599

You'd save $200-300.

If they're going to do this, they need to do it right and just release the higher spec console along with the original. It'll suck that we'll be moving to a more PC like landscape, but it's going in that direction anyway with mid-gen upgrades.

[rainslacker]

@Marin

Fair point. but when it comes to console prices, it's more about cost of entry, and not long term value. Long term value comes into play when one decides if the cost of entry is at the right point to take the plunge.

With the new system, it actually offers more than one cost of entry for what is actually different products based on a persons wants or needs. As such, it's not actually a bad paradigm for the consumer when it comes to entry costs. It's a little less beneficial to early adopters, but at the same time, they're the ones likely to not care about spending more in the first place.

I personally don't think a higher price console is necessarily a bad thing to offer from the get go if it's significantly powerful, and offers a lot for what it costs. But I'm more inclined to spend more on better tech, and don't typically cheap out when it comes to buying the better product. However, I tend to spend that money upfront, instead of just getting to a point where I have to spend an equal amount or more a few years down the line to get something I wanted in the first place. This is a lesson I learned when buying electronics in general....but most people don't think like that, and some people can't afford to think like that.

[Aenea]

@SavingPvt_Highon
Nope, he didn't nail it, what you say about playing the same exact games or when others say "nothing changes for PS4 owners", etc., etc. forget that there might be hidden, behind the scenes, things that can have a negative impact. And I mean devs not having enough time to optimise for two systems, or since there is a better version console out there why spend another month on optimising it for the PS4 while they can easily now can get away with downgrading the graphics while promoting the Neo version of the game in their trailers and promo material...

Many people also think a different model for devs is as easy to support as changing a few sliders, it's not going to be so easy for all games out there...

But I guess some people live in the real world and others live in the cloud. Granted there are always people who can only shout negative stuff, but I dislike people who only see the positive just as much. I'm more a realist...

[freshslicepizza]

@TheCommentator
"The major downside I see to all of this upgraded console business is this: Lots of people complained about how this generation had started off weaker than previous generations in terms of processing"

and rightfully so. it was not a very big upgrade and all signs point out to wanting early profits especailly after the ps3 lost sony a ton of money.

"and now they feel like they are being mistreated by having a new console come out with the extra power launch consoles were lacking."

mistreated? what a bunch of nonsense. the ps4 was already the most powerful console and the only complaints are coming out now. people were quite happy with their ps4 before neo was even hinted at, what changed? nothing.

"Basically, we paid for a companies' success as early adopters and now we have to buy their console again to get the best graphics possible."

who says you have to buy a new console? what if the nintendo nx is more powerful, you going to whine about that too?

"If a new console does release, how can we trust that the company we support won't have a replacement for the upgrade in another 2-3 years?"

who says this is replacing the older systems and also anyone who buys a new console after it's been out for 3 years will risk their being a new system.

people need to stop creating issues that aren't even there.

[wsoutlaw87]

@rain most of your "possible scenarios" are just silly because they are releasing 1 new system. 1. Not 20. The api wouldnt change at all. Why on earth would a console with the same architecture get rid of the low level api? that would be silly. Devs not taking the time to realize the hardware? Its just a scaled up version. The original ps4 will be supported as long as the other ps4. There is really no reason that wouldn't be true. The rest of them dont even make enough sense to comment on. You are acting like sony is switching everything up with this when it is actually a very incremental upgrade of almost the exact same hardware.

@TheCommentator "because rumors are not credible. Only facts are." Cute, but that doesnt make any sense. Rumors can be credible or not. Facts are just facts. The word credible directly has to do with a rumor. A fact cant be credible because it is a fact. What would an non-credible fact be?

[Moz]

@TheCommentator I think it's safe to say that there will be another upgrade in 2-3 years from now. But as long as they continue to support forward and backward comparability then I don't have a problem with it. People who always want the best can buy the new upgraded model every 3 years, And the people who are less concerned about having the best graphics can buy their system every 6 - 9 years and then they have the option of buying the current best or saving some money by getting the previous model.
If (and that's a big if of course) Sony (and MS and Nintendo for that matter) run a model whereby 3 "generations" of console are actively supported then everyone has the option to game and upgrade on their own terms. Which despite some of the complaints from Devs about having more target hardware to deal with has surely got to be better for them in the long run as they have a consistent user base to sell games to.

[rainslacker]

@wsoutlaw

So no new API. That means a completely new build for the new hardware. See, this is what I'm talking about. People act like they know what they're talking about, but don't. No new API, means that the low level stuff has to be custom written for each version of the hardware. The higher level API alleviates that, and is the most reasonable path forward for this type of paradigm. It's not likely to be as high level as say DX on PC, but something more akin to DX12's low level access for PC, which isn't as low level as current consoles already provide.

Is this a bad thing? Not from a development perspective, but it means consoles lose some of their power advantage of being able to achieve more with lesser hardware than PC. That is a concern of mine, because I'd prefer devs take the time to actually utilize the hardware that's there. This also means more power will be taken from the current PS4 to allow the better hardware to brute force on it's own hardware, thus limiting how far the current hardware can actually go.

So, not so silly.

As far as legacy support. yes, for the short term, it's going to be there. But eventually legacy support will have to be dropped, otherwise the new hardware will never be taken advantage of. It's no different than how the new gen versions of cross gen ports are just prettier versions of the past gen versions. Nothing gets taken advantage of and the legacy versions tend to get crap implementation.

Is it silly to be concerned that devs will adopt this attitude going forward...because many generations of new hardware have shown us exactly how two different sets of hardware are handled when it comes to ports. But I guess there's no reason to consider that, and now developers across the board are not strained on time and resources, and will do all they can to insure completely optimized code across two sets of hardware. Glad they got that going after the last generation, and much of this one. Who knew all it took was new hardware...since new hardware never provided that incentive before.

If the rest don't make sense to comment on, then you shouldn't have commented on the two you did, because what I said is plenty easy to understand. Those were easier to understand than the more technical issues which you did decide to address, and no, it's not the exact same hardware. Which is why the API's aren't just portable from one version to the other with a low level implementation. Many things will be, but then, there's no reason to design for the new hardware. Please go learn what that means. I did in school, and use these kinds of principals daily in my work, heck, I write tools which port this kind of stuff between different hardware infrastructures, so I feel I have a bit of an understanding of what might happen on the development side of things, and it's not all bad on that side, however, as a consumer of games, it's not ideal to make me think that it will actually allow my initial purchase of the PS4 to see it's full potential.

And as I said in my OP, people just ignore the possible negatives, and try to dismiss things with reasons based on complete ignorance of how things actually work in the real world(paraphrased).

[Moz]

@rainslacker

Some interesting points that I have some thoughts;

"-cross gen port mentality becoming commonplace"
--- Is that not the entire point that games will just run "cross gen" to the point that the console generations are less important.

"-lack of developers taking the time to really utilize the newer hardware to it's full potential "
--- Given the amount of power now available the need to push the hardware to it's limits is reduced. The other upshot of this is that maybe devs will move their focus away from pushing the boundaries to the point that they are happy to drop frames in favour of some flashy effect that no one thought was possible on the hardware and in stead make solid games that keep a smooth framerate at all times

"-change that legacy hardware will not be supported as long as some people believe"
--- We have no idea what their plans are for this, from the launch of the PS4 (and XB1) it was clear that they were creating a scalable architecture that they could continue to use 30 years from now just with ever fast components.

"-the chance we'll just be doing this all over again"
--- Yes we will in 3 years from now unless the NEO is a complete flop. But that's the whole point of the exercise and it's being designed in such a way that skipping a "generation" isn't going to bother the average consumer

"-forward compatibility actually holding game design back as requiring legacy support doesn't allow games to be designed for new hardware"
--- We're beyond the point now of hardware holding back game design. I'm yet to play a game on PS4 or XB1 that couldn't be made for the PS3/X360 by pairing back the graphics.

"-consoles not being designed to maximize cost vs performance because a refresh can fix everything "
--- How does a more frequent release effect this philosophy? If anything not having to look so far into the future when designing the new hardware should save on development money and improve cost vs performance.

"-The liklihood that higher level API's will be implemented as opposed to low level API's to facilitate the portability of code, you know, kind of how it is on PC, and the sole reason that PC required higher end hardware to perform the same task(known as brute forcing)."
--- First both AMD and NVidia are both working on drivers that allow for "closer to the metal" programming while maintaining portability so there is a middle ground to be found. And the diminishing returns on computer power vs perceivable improvement means we're reaching a point that it's not going to be worth the Devs time ringing every last drop out of the tech anyway. Most games moving forward will run on off the shelf game engines like UE4 because the cost of either customising the engineer or writing their own just wont be economical for the 1% improvement they get at the end of their efforts.

"-The absolute fact a new console refresh like this won't stop the complaining which supposedly everyone is complaining about(under-powered consoles). "
---Not sure how this counts as a negative point, if there's going to be no change in the amount of complaining then surely it's a neutral point?

[Saigon]

@ Aenea, no offense but your comment makes you an optimistic. There were no positives in your comment to think otherwise. A Realist would say, I looked at the leaked documentation or at least a summary of the information and I am taking the facts presented and base my assumptions on the facts. In this case, PS4 Neo, the facts state that it will not affect the current PS4 install base. No special optimization will be done to either version, other than one would be able to enhance the visual output of the same game. There won't be two different game models, it will all be the same disk, or same download thats applied to the base PS4.

[rainslacker]

@Moz

-Cross gen: Perhaps. I'm not sure if we're at the plateau yet where it's feasible without the possibility of holding game design back.

-lack of developers: In some ways yes, but not in others. Graphics, while they can look exceptional on a very strong GPU's, just aren't at the point where they aren't going to advance anymore. Until they actually reach that point, and virtually anything is possible, utilizing hardware to it's full potential is more useful than brute forcing less optimized code. This is a bit abstract though, and don't care to go into it here for why it'd be a concern of mine, lets just say it's more a long term thing.

"legacy hardware support": I know. And that's the problem. I'm not implying that they will screw us over, more that without knowing, I'd prefer to err on the side of caution. Again though, things haven't plateaued enough to make the long term console relevancy a thing yet.

"3 years from now": That's more a personal thing, and just kind of an annoyance based on how it's all going down now. It's more on the community than the principal of the idea itself.

"forward compatibility": true, we aren't seeing much new. But forward compatibility means that we may never see what's possible if it has to be supported. While I'd say all current game designs do fall within a certain level of implementation that would be possible on last gen, outside some extras, I also know that there is more possible. I also believe that current hardware is holding back game design as well, so it's not all about one way or the other....in which case, more powerful hardware could be a good thing...just not if legacy support is mandated indefinitely. I've seen some thing in concept demos which highlight specific possible things that can be done that wouldn't be possible on any console, and would struggle on powerful PC cards. I'd like to see those things eventually make their way to consoles, but legacy support means it can't. I'll try to find some links to demonstrate when I have some time tomorrow.

[rainslacker]

"Console design": Because when it comes to hardware, console owners are often attracted to the newest and greatest things. Just looking at this gen, people lamented that it wasn't powerful enough to start, yet they still went and got the machines. There is nothing to say that future upgrades will be sufficient enough to warrant their existence, and it'd be easy enough for companies to try and compete with only slightly better hardware, being reactive back and forth as they stagger their releases, or push them out too early in the interest of beating the competition. One company fails to light things up with their console, lets just refresh it instead of making it appealing in other ways. That kind of thing. As such, it could be more about what can be gotten out cheap enough just to get by, which isn't beneficial for the consumer.

"API's" Yes, Nvidia and AMD are doing that. For PC. On console though, the API's are still much closer to the metal than on PC. The Driver and OS layer don't exist on consoles. On PC, the only thing removed with these new low level principals is the OS layer, which allows direct access to the driver layer. While that's great for PC, as the OS layer is highly inefficient for graphics, it's not even a thing on consoles to be concerned about. But with new API's, it has to be added to facilitate easier builds, and avoid having to make two separate versions of the game. Most companies now use off the shelf game engines. They have for a while. but they heavily modify the code to use the low level routines to get more performance. It's not like the free versions everyone can get, and that's how power is utilized from the hardware making consoles be able to do more with less hardware. I'd imagine a higher level API will be demanded from devs to make this whole thing viable.

"People complaining": It's not really a negative of the idea. Just that it doesn't actually solve anything that people complain about, and that once it releases, they'll just complain about it again, and possibly new things associated with the idea. It's more about that people are acting like this new paradigm will fix a problem that can't be fixed.

I appreciate your reasoned responses. I'd prefer discussion like this over those who would just act like others are wrong based on what they feel is right, as well as you discussing it as outcomes and hypothetical, instead of absolute. Keep in mind, I'm not wholly against the idea, just a bit annoyed that some people ignore the negatives outright, and are often unwilling to consider them. I also don't feel your wrong with what you say, I just didn't feel like detailing it in my initial post.

[wsoutlaw87]

@rainslacker Do you always try to make straw-man arguments by twisting peoples words? Where did I say there would be no change to the api? You tried to twist my words in your poor argument. The fact that you think having to add to the api to account for ONE more system that is running almost the exact same set up with more cus and a higher clock speed. Are you kidding me? You dont know what you are talking about. The fact that you would bring up dx in comparison because of 2 systems compared to the thousands that a pc could have is an absolute joke.

Legacy support will have to be dropped? What? At no point would it have to be dropped in order to take advantage of the new hardware. PS4 games would run at say 720 and ps4 neo would run at 1080. Its really that simple and there is no reason, that within the frame of this generation would games be not possible on the ps4. If there is ever a point where games move on to be too much for the ps4, that would be called a next generation and you would have the ps5. The ps4 neo didnt change that in any way. How much longer did you think the ps4 was going to be supported for? The ps4 neo doesnt change the fact that the ps4 wasn't going to last forever. You are HIGHLY over estimating the performance gap between the 2 systems.

Again you are talking about some made up "attitude" and you actually think the ps4 to ps4 neo would be a port because you dont know what you are talking about. You know devs already make games for multiple platforms, so unless you only buy exclusives your point is moot because every ps4 game is already a port. "I write tools which port this kind of stuff between different hardware infrastructures" they aren't different infrastructures so great job.

As I said, I didn't comment on the rest of what you wrote because they are so obviously "silly" that i dont need to even say anything, you made my point just by typing it. Also they are you using your magic clairvoyant opinions and are highly redundant so it would be a waste of my time.

lol you actually think they couldnt use a low level api because they have 2 systems; enough said. People like apple must be using magic to get a low level api across their development and some how have more than 1 hardware set up.

you actually think the only thing mantel did was remove the os layer?

@aenea "I see no sense in discussing this with you any further..." ok, where exactly is our discussion?

[Aenea]

@wsoutlaw
Do you have software development experience? It doesn't sound like you do, in fact, it sounds like YOU don't know what you're talking about at all. I see no sense in discussing this with you any further...

@rainslacker
I think we should let it be, people like wsoutlaw have certain notions about software development and you can't get them to see any different...

[wsoutlaw87]

Sorry at the time I assumed your intelligence enough to think you would know what I meant referred to the capabilities of the api. I wont make that mistake again. Your claim of the need to change from a low level api is what I was referring to and your statement about the api is idiotic. The cpu is the EXACT SAME CPU with a higher clock and the gpu just has double cus. That would take a minor addition to the api. Its cute that you got some basic job on a team that does computer work but you know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about if you think that that would make it so sonys api couldn't code to the metal. Adding an abstraction layer doesnt mean it isnt a low level api and pretending there will be a significant performance drop because of the coding there in this case, is wrong. Thats another strawman argument, good job. They are both using gcn cores the only difference being the number. Thats it. Yet you tried to compare it to dx. You absolutely dont know what you are talking about except something you found on wikipedia or someone elses comment. The processing cost of the draw cells required because of your abstraction wouldn't even compare to something like dx. The whole point of amd developing gcn cores and mantel was for this reason. There is an enormous amount of low level apis that work on more than one fix set of hardware which proves your argument completely wrong. I guess to you Vulkan and Mantel don't exist or are magic. All of this is completely ignoring the giant hole in your argument that games are already multi-platform and are frequently not designed to the metal right now.

This is what you said that we are discussing because you seem to have lost track "The liklihood that higher level API's will be implemented as opposed to low level API's to facilitate the portability of code, you know, kind of how it is on PC, and the sole reason that PC required higher end hardware to perform the same task(known as brute forcing)." Not wither or not their would need to be another layer. You think that an api for 2 sets of hardware would cause them to implement a higher level api. Absolutely false.

Again try using my whole quote in context. I said, "have to be dropped in order to take advantage of the new hardware... and there is no reason, that within the frame of this generation would games be not possible on the ps4" Your argument of perpetual forward compatibility is another blatant strawman argument. Unless you are foolish enough to think that pre-ps4 neo the ps4 would be supported in perpetuity, then your argument is just false. As I stated, the neo doesn't change the 6-8 lifespan the ps4 had and I never claimed it to be perpetual. You seem to think that devs would need to do something in order to use all that extra power. The fact is, they would just bump the res and/or framerate as much as possible, which is in fact, the whole point of the thing. See pc. You know, like xb1 and ps4. You keep trying to say i should do research, but you should try making a coherent argument and actually follow through with it. Or you could just quote one line again and change your argument accordingly. Yeah, thats what you will do.

[gangsta_red]

NOW you're tired of people making up claims of consumers getting "shafted'? So funny to see these types of comments only now when it involves Sony. Exaggerated claims of consumers getting shafted was the main complaint of most on this site with Xbox, Kinect, paid online and other arguments against the Xbox.

[Genuine-User]

Why are you including me in your generalization?

I couldn't care less for kinect and paid online services.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

"So funny to see these types of comments only now when it involves Sony"

It's not only "now" though. "These type of comments" are made no mater who is involved, it's just that the people that make them are different individuals that fall on different sides of the coin...

What you truly take issue with is that the people that YOU *specifically* want "to see these types of comments" from, simply don't do it when it involves MS. But make no mistake that those type of comments are indeed made when MS is involved.

[rainslacker]

I'm personally saving the "shafted" criticism until I know the details. MS, we knew the details, and I actually was on MS side calling for people to be reasonable and not jump to conclusions before the rumors were confirmed. For now, I'm critical of certain things which may come to pass, but haven't blamed Sony for anything at all because I can't actually see why they would do something like this at the present time.

That's just me though. I can't keep track of everyone to know how they feel on every issue, and if I generalize it's more for brevity than thinking that everyone actually feels that way. But I will admit I'm guilty of generalization at times.

[Sparta07]

Goes both way Red, especially with you protecting anything xbox.
Fact of the matter is this is just a rumor, I'm not thrilled about it but I'm just going to save my judgment to then.

[gangsta_red]

@Sparta

Actually, you want it to be one way....

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Sparta07]

Lmfao!!! What are you some internet tuff guy or something? Should I be scared?
Go defend Microsoft kid.
Microsoft announces all exclusives are coming to pc!!!
Red " yay "
Rumor Microsoft might come out with an xbox1.5!!
Red " yay "
Rumor PlayStation coming out with PS4.5!!!
Red " bulls@!t Sony sucks lets burn them too HELL "

You're ridiculous and one sorry little troll... See ya!

[Yetter]

Well if you bought your PS4 in the last 6 months you have a pretty good reason to feel shafted, and if in a year after the Neo is out we have games that are poorly optimized on the base model, ever PS4 owner has a right to feel shafted

[jznrpg]

If, I dont think it will be an issue. It wont be like porting for PC , it will be more like changing your settings for hardware almost identical, except one is clockes faster . Neo is on high, old ps4 on medium. I dont see them having compatability issues or anything like that, its going to ne the same hardware overall just more GCN and higher clock speeds. It seems pretty obvious to me. Maybe I am wrong but I would put $$ on it.

[gangsta_red]

I'm including you in this generalization because I have read some of your past comments adding to the ridiculousness of these 'bizarre illusions' when talking about consoles.

And how could you not see some of the concern for people that bought a console and then a couple of years later Sony releasing a better performing, possibly better for VR console to the market?

You really think that it's one sided and bizarre?

[Genuine-User]

Bullshit. You're a liar :)

Link some of my bizzare illusions in regards to kinect or paid online multiplayer.

I can differentiate between genuine concern and gaming-is-doomed comments.

[senorfartcushion]

Explain how they aren't getting shafted?

[gangsta_red]

No need for links, you know god damn well the type of comments in question. ;)

Besides, I used Kinect, etc., etc., as examples of comments from most here that have the strange 'concerned for consumers' theme behind them.

As I said before it's funny to see people now commenting and noticing what is actual concern and what is BS when their favorite company is involved when in the past they joined in on the jamboree of false concerns.

You seriously don't think that a lot of the concerns are valid if this Neo is true? What exactly is bullsh** about them and why are they bizarre illusions? If this is successful and Sony pulls it off and consumers go for it, expect Sony to capitalize and start releasing a new console every three years. Hell, companies might start testing the waters and releasing a console every two. Who knows where this might lead.

[game4funz]

There were positive aspects of all digital Xbox one. Cheaper prices and family sharing for instance. The negatives outweighed the positive tho.

Same with neo. If it's really a new more powerful iteration of the PS4 then it's a new console. Therefore this current gen of PS4 users are shafted.

We could go to the argument of which console to own. One of the strong argument against owning an Xbox is that the graphics and resolution are lower normally. Why play on a weaker console? Same concept is applied here. Why play on the PS4 or buy a PS4 if neo is more powerful and will play the same games better.

It makes the PS4 obsolete. Many people will be pissed but still move to neo. That's the sad part. If this happens it proves the PS4 fanbase is willing to accept anything Sony does.
However since Sony has yet to reveal or comment on all this evidence I will give them the benefit of the doubt. But won't blame anyone who doesn't. Regardless I will not be buying another console anytime soon. I'll stick to my PC if ms and sony abandon their current consoles.

[Ck1x]

The Playstation fanbase does except anything that Sony does listen to how many of them talk on this site alone. Some love Sony so much that they go out and buy multiple PS4's just because. Not only that, it seems that one argument they have for this working out is Sony being rumored to not allow developers to shaft OG PS4 owners. Uh hello, Sony doesn't even control developers from putting broken games on their systems and now we are expecting them to run what 3rd party's do now! It just comes across as delusional in this day and age that we live in...

[Muzikguy]

You can't see why people complain or are negative towards this idea? Of course there's going to be one sided arguments. We see them all the time about positive effects this Neo might have too. My take is negative, for many reasons but none of those are because I think that us vanilla owners get shafted. Well, maybe a little bit, but I'm more worried about other things.

1. I don't want this to become a trend
2. I can see them developing solely for Neo as a way to market the system and sell more hardware, even if people say that won't happen
3. People shelling out for a new console mid gen means they're spending $400 or so on something instead of games for the system they already have. Considering how publishers and developers are already complaining about lack of sales, this is a bad thing.
4. Many won't be willing to buy a PS5 knowing that a 5.5 is just around the corner. This would in turn harm developer support and hurt console sales of the vanilla PS5. Might just end consoles right there

I can go on and on with reasons I think it's bad for Sony and the industry to do this

[Ck1x]

Many people try using the Nintendo handheld scene as a positive outlook for the Neo, but isn't it actually the opposite. When Nintendo usually brings in the new model it pretty much replaces the old and becomes the targeted platform. Even though the 3ds already had a large install base, the New 3ds became the sales leader with some games only being able to run on the new hardware and getting better running versions than the older hardware...

[Moz]

As counters (kind of) to your points

1 - This is becoming a trend, but once it's been in place for a few years it won't seem as bad. Take the iPhone as an example few people buy every model most people buy every other model because the difference from one model to the next isn't big enough to have an impact on their day to day use.

2 - I know we're still in the rumour stage and of cause Ts&Cs can always be changed but the document that a lot of the rumours have come from clearly state the Sony will not licence NEO exclusive games all games that play on the NEO have to also be playable on the Classic

3 -True but this is short term pain for long term gain in the future Devs won't need to worry about the user base being split between 2 generations of console. Moving forward no matter when a game is released the user base will be more or less the same.

4. While the console after Neo may very well be called PS5 it will still (by current reports at any rate) continue to follow the backward/forward compatibility model being set out by the Neo. And indeed some people will chose to continue playing games on their PS4 or PS4 Neo and then not upgrade until the PS5 Neo comes out. But that's a win for Sony as it creates a more even cash flow.

[N4GDgAPc]

It will probably be 3 years since ps4 came out. People are acting like it's the iPhone where it's been only a year. It's exactly like a PC where someone will usually upgrade every 3 years. 3 YEARS. I bet 65% of these people complaining are the same ones that would of right away go buy a slim ps4. I rather have a hardware upgrade than a slim. And if someone has the money to spend on a upgrade I don't understand stand how that makes someone a Sony fanboy. I say jealous because they can't afford it. Someone can't be satisfied on what they got in life. People are greedy in life. They can play the same games on ps4.5. All I can say is put a little money away to save up for it and they will get it quicker than they think. U can save money in many areas if u really wanted something. If the person is living pay check to pay check I have no idea why they have a ps4 in the first place. Sorry on the rant:) not all of it is towards you.

[Dark_king]

Okay I haven't said anything about this rumor but what the hell everyone else has said there peace about it why not me.If it was its own platform and had games made to push the system then I wouldn't see a problem with it but if all it does is run ps4 games slightly better then it needs to come out with a price to match the fact that it will never be pushed like a proper console.It basically needs to come out as a simple ps4 slim model that just happens to run the games better.

[uth11]

And I'm tired of reading bullshit that everything will be just Rosy for current ps4 owners when Sony will have a financial incentive to try to sell us the new hardware.

I see how this works in the Apple world and the PC world. New software and OS updates run terribly on existing hardware, until you can't take it anymore and upgrade. I see no reason why Sony will be more benevolent in that regard and not do the same thing to existing PS4 owners

[sinjonezp]

I think we will move towards a future where everything will be modular. Meaning that peices will be interchangeable on a simplified level. I like the idea of that more so than buying a new console.

[Ck1x]

I agree, but at this point it's almost no different than them releasing their own version of a Steam Machine or PC! But a modular design from the beginning would be more honest to the buying public.

[WelkinCole]

When will you people understand that this will change the console industry to align more with the smartphone and PC industry?.

There is a reason why many don't like how much they spend on smartphones and PC upgrades and why the console industry has been the way it is.

This move will only give more power to the companies and less to gamers.

Before I use to buy one console and it will get the most out of it for the entire generation. Now if I want better performance mid gen I have to upgade like with PC and smartphones and spend more money?.

Before we use to buy games and we get full games. Now we need to get season passes to get full games.

The list keeps growing and growing where gamers are getting shafted. This will be another.

[wsoutlaw87]

what don't gamers over react too?

[cyberwaffles]

@Aenea

I agree. There's going to be complaints no matter what happens. You can't appeal to everyone all the time.

[TheSaint]

My only issue is why bother with consoles any more? Might as well go full PC now. And I am primarily a console player.

[Phantom68]

I agree. I am not worried about a new console in fact, I am more than happy to embrace it given the fact i change my iphone every 2 years.
In fact, Sony is only doing what Microsoft is also doing behind the scenes and it would be a big mistake for XBox to get an upgrade and for PS4 not to get one.

My only concern about the rumours is that Sony may still include a silly 2.5' HDD which, in my view, is a big mistake. I have upgraded my PS4 with a 6TB 3.5' HDD using a Nyko data bank and would never go back to a 2.5' HDD given my library.
If Sony was to launch the Neo with a 2.5'HDD then i would wait until a work around for a3.5' HDD is found before I purchase it.
The alternative is for Sony to finally allow game installations on external HDD and that would solve the issue.

[rmw2hot87]

PS4 Original Fanboys vs PS4 Neo Fanboys. Let the fight begin!

[gangsta_red]

Crazy how this has separated a fan base. You see some defending it, some hating it and others staying quiet because they first slammed MS when Phil suggested modular Xbox consoles.

[rainslacker]

I feel it's been kind of a rollar coaster of opinions on the topic since it started among the fan base. Seen it go from dislike, to like, to indifference, back to like, and so on on a daily basis.

I can hardly even form an opinion anymore, because no idea what the rumor will be tomorrow, and no one wants to discuss any possibility other than what's been reported from the leak, or accept any possible negative aspects of it all.

[gangsta_red]

The only problem I see is if this new Neo has games that are exclusive to the system. Or if it actually does make the PSVR a better experience because then Sony will be 'shafting' the original user base.

But if not then I don't see a problem with them releasing a console for the hardcore enthusiast who might want the most powerful console and have the extra cash to do so.

[TKCMuzzer]

I'm staying quiet as there has been no confirmation by Sony, on anything. People are assuming, Sony are not going to cause fragmentation in their user base, they are not going to allow anything to damage the original PS4's marketplace position.
If the NEO is real I imagine Sony are going to have some pretty tight constraints on how devs use the extra power and Imagine there will be no exclusive games for the NEO, it either works on the PS4 or it doesn't get released. Lets be honest there are people who want it to go wrong as the PS4's success for some reason hurts.
Lets all the do the decent thing, wait for Sony to announce, hear what they say, then we can deal with facts.

[Ck1x]

Even a modular console would be better than buying a whole new box, it has the same cpu, just over clocked. If this is what kind of console they wanted they could have just made a Playstation PC and called it a day... Stop selling people on "Supercharged PC Technology", let them upgrade certain components from the beginning and we wouldn't even be having these discussions.

[SpinalRemains138]

Yeah I am one of those people. I don't like the idea of fragmenting the community, but given the chance of course I will opt for the better machine and support the policy I don't like.

SONY has me by the bag.

[Chevalier]

"But please for you especially, do us a favor and stay silent until "hard facts' and 'confirmation' from Sony releases"

Sorry just calling it as I see it. It's truly idiotic to go on a tirade based on conjecture. You're comments aren't based on a shred of facts. The difference is other stories based off of facts I have absolutely no problem with comments.

"....least he provided proof unlike some who make up assumptions based on their own personal bias against a company"

Hmm..... weird you said something about assumptions and providing proof and personal bias against a company? Yet here you are doing exactly that?!

Assumptions about PS4.5 = Check
No actual facts or proof = Check
Supporting and pushing negative views with NO facts = Check
Bias against ONE company = Check

Am I missing something? Strange I went back over a month of your comments and interestingly there were ZERO negative comments about a possible divide caused by the rumoured Xbox One that would leave early adopters in a similar situation, but, plenty of comments and conjecture about PS4.5. Also no negative comments about NX leaving early WiiU adopters in a similar state. Weird right?!

[Chevalier]

"And my comments or opinions based off of that.
Making up words and trying to set rules for comments based off of your favorite company to prove a point doesn't make you correct, it just makes you come off bitter and stupid. "

Really what's stupid is your comments are literally based on unconfirmed facts. It isn't about setting rules or anything. Please show me some links with ANYTHING confirmed to be true at all?!

Your going on tirades telling people to stay silent when something doesn't agree and calls you out. Please continue stomping around the playground complaining about other kids getting shiny new toys to play with.

You literally sound like an idiot with your pretentious poser problems based off of nothing. No facts at all and your writing pages of garbage about concern about splitting fan bases and exclusives for PS4.5 even though those supposed articles also say Sony won't allow for anything but higher resolution etc. How about waiting for actual facts first?! Wow truly idiotic.

[MilkMan]

Like I said, it would divide the community, and it already has.
Just wait until it releases.
MS needs some time to shine and Sony would have handed it to them same for Nintendo.

[Chevalier]

Really with Gangsta and other people here starting tirades with absolutely no hard facts is hilarious. Why even compare this to XB1? Unless you're comparing both potential updated systems? Again what does anyone actually know as in facts and not pure speculation?

It's funny to see possible scenarios based on possible system specs. Seriously get some facts confirmed and then start a tirade. Till then it's idiotic conjecture.

[gangsta_red]

lol, no one is starting a tirade. Just commenting on what we have heard with the info we have received...you know...like every other article that has ever been on this site since the beginning of human time.

But please for you especially, do us a favor and stay silent until "hard facts' and 'confirmation' from Sony releases.

Edit:
"You're comments aren't based on a shred of facts."

Makes no sense, my comments are based off of what we have been presented and shown just like everyone on this page and on this site on this very subject. And my comments or opinions based off of that.
Making up words and trying to set rules for comments based off of your favorite company to prove a point doesn't make you correct, it just makes you come off bitter and stupid.

"Yet here you are doing exactly that?!"

Again, taking a past quote out of context and off topic. You seem to be good at that. Anything else?

"I went back over a month of your comments and interestingly there were ZERO negative comments about a possible divide..."

Interesting, I guess you missed all my comments including the one I left on this very article where I have repeatedly said I have no problem with Sony (or MS) doing an up-gradeable console OR releasing a more powerful console as long as it has forward and backwards compatibility with its games.

I have said that for both possible rumors for both consoles, many, many, many times.

You took the time to go through one month of my comments and yet you missed those...I guess you were painfully trying to look for negative comments. How very, very sad.

Keep trying though Chevalier I am sure that you'll find something that will stick and make you sleep easy at night.

[TKCMuzzer]

Correct, raising concerns is fine but you should only base them on facts otherwise it's just speculation on top of speculation.

[Silly gameAr]

Yeah, I laugh every time I see guys like that weigh in with their opinions about the PS4, Neo rumors, and the fanbase.

[Ck1x]

Let's not kid ourselves here, it would be one thing if these rumors were only on N4G and NeoGaf. But having much larger and connected sites attach their names to this information with absolute silence from Sony proves that this is real and they just don't want to confirm anything yet. Not to mention that the early reactions aren't all positive, so how do they go about pleasing those people as well...

[Fin_The_Human]

I am with the Neo crew (puts on shades an fly's away).

PS4 vanilla can just sit down while I tackle the PC masters.

[Fin_The_Human]

I wonder if N4G will have a Neo section?

[SaveMeJebus]

If it isn't broken. Don't fix it.

[Next_gen_2015]

Everyone who disagrees with your comment is implying the ps4 is broken XD

[Oschino1907]

Or maybe it's because nothing is being "fixed", it's being improved upon in a rational/logical progression that was planned from the start...

[game4funz]

I gotta say ....my PS4 makes more noise then my brothers hurricane of a computer...which is like 10 years old...so it might be broke. Lol

[2pacalypsenow]

people expect consoles to have PC like graphics but a fraction of the price, cant happen

[subtenko]

Everything besides consoles I listed happens quicker than 2 years...... hence my comment..

If people disagree, then dont buy consoles, if you agree, good for you lol. Its either one or the other

[subtenko]

Ok cool, no more new consoles, no more new tv shows, no more new electronics (ESPECIALLY SMARTPHONES)

[2pacalypsenow]

Nobody is saying no more consoles, just not every 2/3 years

[TomRL]

"Kill your ambition" "Kill innovation"

[SaveMeJebus]

Well they're doing a bang up job with that one.

[Spyroo]

Yep.

Console gamers are so scared of change as always...

Nothing new.

[Next_gen_2015]

Change isnt the issue. Look at the xbox one....the console introduced changes but they were anti consumer (DRM, online only)

The ps4.5 is also anti consumer since it punishes early adopters whilst late buyers end up with a more superior console. Scary how sony fans are defending this when its all a blatant screw over.

Probs why there are so many PS4.5 damage control articles like this being posted lately

[sk8ofmnd]

If they offer a trade in value i dont see the big deal. I got my ps4 on launch day and have def got my $'s worth and then some. You are talking probably 1000's of hours. Anybody thats uses their consoles every day with gamefly and the ability to play at least 100 different games will agree with me. For those that just got one, wait for the RUMORED neo to drop in price just like the phat. Ppl act like just because sony is offering a newer model they are forcing you to buy it. Buy the new sh!t orr not. People need to stop all their bitching and whining till its waranted. Most people that are like me, will be getting it no matter what is. When in reality its prolly just a slim, uhd streaming, psvr forward thinking machine. And then everyone can just stfu

[Spyroo]

If you own the original ps4 nothing much will change you'll still play the same games.

[Aenea]

@nextgen
So if you're not defending this you're not a Sony fan? Ok, that's new...

@sk8ofmnd
Yeah, and Sony is not going to want to lose money on this so they won't offer a trade in value.

@spyroo
In an ideal world nothing changes, some people think there might be consequences because of this meaning that games running on the base PS4 don't run as well when devs have another better PS4 version to show their game off on...

[eferreira]

Early adopters will already have 3 years of enjoyment when this thing releases.

[Moz]

How does it punish early adopters? They still have their exact same console and they are still getting new games for that console. They can even continue to play games with their friends online who have the new console. Other then people with a unrealistic need to "keep up with the Jones'" this hurts no one.

Not to mention that it's very likely that the NX will be at NEO levels of power and theirs a very real chance that MS are planning on doing the exact some thing with in the next 12 months. With that kind of competition out there the PS4 just can't survive another 3+ years.

Also we've some what brought this upon ourselves as consumers collectively with our eagerness to buy the latest smart gadget even when we know that a better "de-bugged" version is only about a year away. Look at all the people who have spent crazy money on the Apple Watch despite it's limited power, limited app support and limited battery life. And those things cost more then a games console.

[ninjazfistz]

Agree completely. The NEO purchasers will have an edge on ONLINE MULTIPLAYER due to higher framerates if Sony doesn't lock NEO to what the ps4 performs at. It really creates the need for two communities. It definitely divides the userbase in this regards as well as games are much better on the newer playstation. It might as well be the ps5 as far as I'm concerned 2 years after buying ps4. Sony has now put a standard in place for NEO titles such as 1080p 60fps with no new basic ps4 standards spoken about. This is really bad news

[Budobear]

How does the new update punish those who picked up a PS4 early? I'll still have my PS4 and be able to play it, so how am I being punished? I'd like to know as I normally have to pay for 'punishment'

[senorfartcushion]

This isn't really a beneficial change for the company, never mind for the consumers. The people who are reacting badly are reacting badly because they understand.

[2pacalypsenow]

Exactly, only people who are exited for this is the ones who think the console will stay the same price and somehow have 4k gaming. They don't understand technology.

[Muzikguy]

It's not that people are scared of change. I bought a PS4 day1 and haven't regretted it one bit. I most definitely don't feel like I'm entitled to a free upgrade either or that I wasted my money, like some people sound. I'm concerned for other reasons and just hope that the rumor isn't true

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I think there is a degree of over-reaction right now. Until we have official information its hard to say one way or another.

[rainslacker]

Think too many people are forming their opinion and potential buying decisions on incomplete information.

Edit @ Master

Which is one reason why I kind of doubt these rumors. I think the media saw just how quickly a juicy rumor could bring in hits, and perhaps concocted a rumor that would be pretty volatile. Spencer asking should have been enough to focus all this on Xbox, but it seems rather convenient that not two weeks later it shifted to the higher selling console where more people are paying attention to any bits of news which happen to come out for it...which has been rather sparse since release if you really look at it due to Sony's virtual silence most of the time.

[MasterCornholio]

Reminds me of that fake NX controller. The one with no buttons.

Ill admit first hand that i overreacted with it. Which is why im being extremely cautious with the Neo and the Smith.

[MasterCornholio]

Of course. The PlayStation Neo and the Xbox Smith are causing some gamers to lose it.

[XeyedGamer]

I've been waiting almost 3 years for one.

[DillyDilly]

Nope because when announced sure Sony can say "We promise games wont be exclusive 2 Neo" but that can easily change at any given time as games are already getting delayed MOST LIKELY FOR NEO

[WeAreLegion]

A little, but early concerns can sway companies to make changes.

Everyone is scared that 3 years will be the new cycle. Which I understand.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

I know I would feel a bit better about a 4 - 5 yr cycle but then again, if this new console really is just a slightly better performing version of what is already out and there wont be any games made just for it... I guess its fine? I really want real info before I say one way or the other on how I feel on this one.

[DLConspiracy]

Well and perhaps this is also why Phil mentioned he did not like slight iterations, so perhaps we are gonna see upgradable consoles? It might not even be set 3 yr iterations. For all we know both these consoles will now be upgradable. At least from one of them.

[Rude-ro]

No, the media and fanboy sites are over reacting to rumors.

[Nibbs]

Yes, because blogs are click-baiting the F out of us.

[ruefrak]

Who cares?!?! If you want a new console, then get one. If you don't, you're not getting shafted. Battlefront on the PS4 runs at 900p right now. That has nothing to do with it being "downgraded" because there's a Neo out or anything. That's simply what they could push out of the system. So if the Neo comes along and can run the game at 1080p or higher, how does that screw over current PS4 customers? They're not getting an "inferior" version of the game. They're getting the version of the game that works best on their system.

[Ark_]

I don't think many people have a problem with what you describe.

There are other legit concerns that are much more problematic, though:
1) It could unbalance multiplayer. Playing a shooter at 60fps vs. 30fps for example gives you an huge advantage.
2) Future (AAA) PSVR games will only run on the Neo.
3) Shorter console cycles means, that for "hardcore" console gamers their hobby just got more expensive. Which was also a traditional argument against PC gaming ... Maybe some ppl will jump ships? Could go in both directions of course. Stronger hardware might entice PC gamers to buy consoles as well.
4) Identity crises ... e.g. the typical graphic comparison bullshit discussions between X1 and PS4 might ignite between PS4 and PS4Neo as well. (aka "Splitting fanbase")

That said: As a PC (and WiiU) gamer I like the idea of shorter upgrades and might finally buy a PS4 in the Neo verison. Now that Uncharted arrives ... hard to resist. Also PSVR looks quite promising together with the Neo (on PS4 not so much imo).

[ruefrak]

I think the console cycles are dead. The PS4 is the system. The PS4K will be like the next version of iPhone. Faster and better in most every way but still runs the same software. Then in a few more years, an even better system will get released. Eventually yes, support for the current PS4 will be abandoned, but that won't be for a number of years, probably when support would ahve normally ended anyway.

[DLConspiracy]

I'm pretty sure everyone who was in the comments talking of superiority or inferiority for resolution and frames is gonna pick up the Neo and or Smith. Just makes sense. If any console could do it Sony would be the one and MS isn't gonna just wait it out. So it may just be 3 yr or 5yr cycles. If the rumors are true. My guess is Neo will hit first and maybe the smith 2nd?

[Ck1x]

Here is the number one reason of the Neo issue that comes to mind and it brings up a Watchdog memory for me. Imagine e3 rolls around and Sony or some 3rd party developer shows off an amazing looking game that everyone goes crazy over and come to find out what was shown was running on Neo hardware and the og PS4 will get some down ported version of that game.

So yes essentially the og PS4 gets the game as well but how well will it run and look? The Watchdog meltdowns were real and the fact that it didn't look like the initial e3 reveal was deafening across the Internet. The early Digital Foundry videos of PS4 vs PS4 Neo are probably what will really put this into perspective for most.

[GamerFrank85]

I'm excited as I was waiting for e3 to get a ps4 since i haven't yet. I have a 4k tv and I'm ready. If it comes out day 1 buy for me . But if you own a ps4 and a 4k tv I understand how you feel.

[MilkMan]

"Are Gamers Overreacting to the PlayStation Neo?"

Nope!

[jwillj2k4]

This could be bad if they charge 10 more dollars to cover the cost of testing for neo. Ill probably only buy a couple games a year if it goes to $70. not because i cant afford it, but because $70 for a game is just too much damn money.

[Oschino1907]

What you just said is probably the most irrational concern I have seen thus far.

[jwillj2k4]

how is it irrational to not want to pay more. seems pretty rational to me. 10 dollars is just an arbitrary number, what if it goes up 20 dollars, is that rational enough for you???

[oof46]

@jwill: They will not raise the price of games because of testing for the Neo. That is something arbitrary that doesn't make sense. So, if the ps5 were ever released, would games go back to $60 or stay at $70? Why not raise it to $80 since they would need to test games on the ps5?

It doesn't make sense.

As for my comment, they raised the prices for those games because of extra things that were stuffed in the cart (fx chips, ram, etc) and it wasn't the norm. I did say "sometimes".

[oof46]

I guess you weren't around when SNES/Genesis games would sometimes sell for $100.

[jwillj2k4]

on the contrary i was. Most games of that era were 50 bucks, not 100. If you are fine with 100 dollar games then something is wrong with you.

[jwillj2k4]

The industry does whatever people are willing to go along with. I guarantee you once all of these 'mid cycle' consoles come out there will be talk of game price increases due to increased dev costs, ensuring cross hardware compatibility, TESTING, etc... The rise from 50 to 60 was explained away in the same manner.

[Oschino1907]

"This could be bad if they charge 10 more dollars to cover the cost of testing for neo."

Your first sentence is your concern, that concern is irrational because there is no precedent, your concern could be considered arbitrary as well.

[jwillj2k4]

Precedence has nothing to do with it. Just like the idea that snes games were 100 dollars, peoples logic is flawed in that there is also no precedent for a complete hardware replacement mid cycle . IMO the gloves are off as far as price gouging is concerned. I admit 10 dollars is arbitrary, Ill just say price increase next time to not confuse you.

[22CobraKing]

For people its either
Against
Its separating the fan base
People dont even have 4k tvs

For it
It will run games smoothly.
You dont have go buy it.

[Embolado]

Constant issue with being a early adopter of any electronic device. Sometimes you look back at your purchased devices and can only shake your head. Any that have bought a 3D TV can understand this feeling. The feedback is loud for both sides of the fence, I hope companies can find a happy balance to follow their vision while also satisfy the consumer base.

[rainslacker]

While I don't disagree with your sentiment, we all brought these consoles with the expectation of a moderately respectable life cycle. To date, traditional life cycles were in the 5-6(or more) range, and this kind of throws all that into disarray.

Had many people known that the term was only three years, at which point we'd see more powerful hardware, it could have changed their purchasing decisions. Now I don't think either company had plans to release another console after three years, but if they are planning it now, it would be nice to know something, and not have them wait for some trade show, so people can make their purchases knowing what they're getting into.

Truthfully, if at the beginning of this gen, I was told that in three years we'd be able to upgrade the console, I probably still would have brought into the new gen, and maybe even upgraded if I felt it worthwhile. The reason being is that last gen was pretty long in the tooth, and I was ready to see advancement. However, so far this gen, we have just now started to see what this gen is truly capable of, and most games coming out are being designed with the current specs in place. It would be a shame to just say that the current specs are now obsolete, and not really given the time they deserve, just so a new hardware can overtake the market, thus rendering my day one purchase less beneficial to me. Value would be removed from my early purchase, and that to me is not consumer friendly, even if my console continues to live on for a while on life support cross gen principals.

On the other hand, I also know that it takes 2-3 years for games to really start showing what a new gen is capable of, so I would have considered maybe waiting it out, just buying the more powerful console, and enjoying the best of both worlds without the initial expenditure. It's not like I had a lack of games to play on prior gen consoles...quite the contrary, I'm still getting through my backlog from last gen, and still buying games for my PS3. So not knowing, made me make a purchase based on inaccurate information, which isn't anyone's fault but these companies which haven't made mention of this new ideal. Assuming it's true of course, still not ready to criticize them for it until confirmation comes.

[SaveMeJebus]

If I would have known a PS4 Neo was coming out in 3 years I wouldn't have bought 2 PS4's. Sucks for me right?

[Mike04]

I dont have a 4k tv yet so i dont mind it now..but if developers would be pain in the ass then i will mind the change.

[sk8ofmnd]

Theres just too much unknown i think is the biggest factor to all this. Pricing and the details will be real important that if even most of what we hear is true. But its like why would sony announce a more powerful ps4 at e3 with a fall launch. That would slow ps4 vanilla sales. Now if its a slim, 4k streaming, bimp in graphics, trade in for older ps4 models, and comming out in less than 3 months.. My head would go kaboom lol

[Nightmar3Demom]

40,000,000 units sold
Roughly 2:1 lead over their closest competitor
Continued growth month after month only losing something like 2 months since release

.........Let's change it

[senorfartcushion]

Not really. If the leaked information is real and the Neo is real, it is not going to be a beneficial event. This is intentionally splitting the userbase and for no reason other than to power the overpowered VR headsets. You cannot up the resolution past 1080p because 95% of sold TVs are 1080p maximum in resolution, the frame rate can't really be changed either due to the multiplayer functionalities of most games.

So,without a VR headset, i will be paying £400 to get a console that will play the single-player mode of a game in 60fps instead of 30? That is almost pointless.

[oof46]

How is it splitting the user base?

[Aenea]

A game running at 900p on regular PS4 could now run at 1080p, a game capped at 30fps because they can't really reach 60fps can now maybe easily reach 60fps, games not always reaching their capped fps could now easily reach it. Plus VR is also locked at 1080p...

[oof46]

But, it's not "splitting" them. Both iterations get the same game, with all the same modes. No differences. The only difference is fps and graphical fidelity. Like going from a mid-tier to a slightly higher PC.

[no_more_heroes]

One solution to that could be to drop the resolution, textures and/or graphical effects to a level where the game can run at 60 FPS on the base model so that there's no framerate difference.

[iTechHeads]

Yup.

[hardcorehenry]

"are gamers overreacting to the...."

yes. yes they are.

[jznrpg]

Half are xboxers no doubt. Only time will tell, and I am optimistic. People love to complain, but I will reserve judgement until after I see how it goes. Since both systems will run the same games I don't think it will split the community like some fear.

[Seraphim]

Simply put YES!

[Whitey2k]

I'm getting ps4 neo when it comes no matter what people or media says I'm happy to upgrade because I know my games I brought 4 my ps4 can still b played on the neo and since Nintendo has been doing all this time with 3ds n everything I think the ps4 cycle and neo will still go along way

[xYESIAMYOURGODx]

Guys this is the trend thats coming okay just like we get an iPhone 6 then the 6s or a galaxy s6 then the s7 its called people want the latest n greatest n the same goes for consoles their gonna start doing mid cycle upgrades between full blown next generations as hardware is accelerating more quickly n thus systems need to have upgrades its that simple so for everyone crying and whining stfu already dont be a spolied brat because you cant afford the upgrade and wanna spoil it for all of us who can because all the ignorant people sayin sony is making a mistake are completely wrong as its been 3 years and people are gonna jump all over this new ps4k neo whether you wanna like it or not thats how its gonna be going forward as console's will launch and then 2 to 3 years at most we will see the upgraded version with better graphics better framerate etc..... While still being compatible with the original versions of the console its that simple and i believe this is the best thing to ever happen to console gaming as its long over due

[trywizardo]

do we really want something called PS4.5 ?!
do we really need an Iphone every year or two
no I'm not a sheep .|. $ony

[eferreira]

Buying something you can afford and want doesn't make you a sheep. Grow up

[baodeus]

But what if you didn't know that u are a sheep?

Want to figure it out? Treat it like a lent season where u will not buy it and see how u feel.

If you feel agitated, unhappy, hurt when someone else has it, or uncontrollable urge to get it, you might already be a sheep.

Now if you feel nothing and it doesn't affect you at all, you know you aren't a sheep.

This simple test work because these things that u want aren't needed.

It is a simple supply and demand curves, if there are supply and no demands, cant sell. Advertisement is the same as brain washing a person into thinking that this is what he/she wants and even needs without him/her realizing it. Hence the term sheep (you are unconsciously guided)

[SynestheticRoar]

Not a state of difficulty. I'm just going separate some positive individual possessing the Neo machine in question from their person. A triviality not to be taken seriously.

[EverydayGuy]

Would be funny if Sony made a project Oracle to compete with Alexis and siri and cortana

[BoneMagnus]

Here's my take:

Sony is not forcing anyone to do buy anything. I plan on sticking with my PS4 - that I've put a 2T HD in and my Blue Forza Edition XBOne for awhile. If they start coming out with games that only work with the new consoles or look bad on the current ones, then Sony will not get my money on those games.

Since I am a console gamer, I've already decided I do not need "the best graphics" version of a game - if I did, I'd be a PC gamer.

It is up to Sony to convince us that we need a new console - by offering an experience that justifies the cost. At the moment, all we know is that it offers better graphics and better VR capabilities. For some, that justifies the cost, for others, it does not.

Bottom line, enjoy the games you have to play now, watch with interest all the new developments, but do not let it get you upset. Gaming is supposed to be fun, not anxiety provoking.

[HawaiianDreads]

Couldn't have said better than myself. Exactly point, and I would up vote you multiple times if I could.

[Fin_The_Human]

I think a lot of people are missing the point of the Neo which is to compliment the Morpheus VR.

Let's be honest here VR needs to be at it's best graphically wise and also needs to run smooth as butter...PS4 vanilla does not have the power to give you that.

[SaveMeJebus]

That's why people are so pissed off. First Sony said "Here's PSVR! It will run just fine on the PS4 and it's only 400$!" Then "Oh yeah you need the camera for it to work, that's more $." Then "You might as well just get the bundle and it's only 500$!" Now "Well if you really want the MOST out of your PSVR experience, without all the puking, you should really buy the Neo! It's only another 400$ or more!" I know they haven't confirmed this yet, but all signs point to a Neo reality. That would make the "Best" PlayStation VR experience cost 900$ or more, without taxes added on!

[SavingPvt_Highon]

Gamers can react however they want. Personally, I'm pummped, I embrace new technology, not get offended or pissed off by it. Example of how people are never happy. We bitch about how Mirrors Edge beta is 900p on PS4 and say things like "its 2016, this is unacceptable" Now Sony is going to give the people what they want, a system that can perfom games better at 1080p 60fps, and the majority is unhappy with this decision. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. And if you get what you ask for and still aren't happy, then there's no pleasing you.

[Whirlwind_Fanfare_08]

I'm definitely getting one!

[Morgue]

It's the internet so of course gamer's are going to overact and I don't see some guy dressed in black twisting my arm too run out and buy it when it comes out.

There is that saying that if you don't need it, then don't buy it.

[SaveMeJebus]

See that's the problem. If I want the "best" PSVR experience, I'll need the NEO. They said PS4 could work it fine but, it doesn't seem that way now. I sure don't want to be sick everytime I play it.

[Rarefaction]

Yes they are overreacting. This will help peeling the console life cycle., if they didn't do this they would likely bring ps5 sooner which would suck.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

Yes, Mr. Anderson.

[Manubiggs]

Let's wait till its announced, we don't even know the facts yet

[Bruh]

Gamers now a days overreact to everything. Personally the fact that some developers don't like it doesn't give me a good vibe, there's already piss poor optimization from most 3rd party titles on PS4 and One. Now it'll get even worse, I doubt OG PS4 owners are gonna be able to bear the garbage ports they'll get and eventually upgrade.

[Moe-Gunz]

Overreaction yes because all we have are rumors so far. Once it is revealed and Sony tells us what it is and what is it's purpose, reactions will be justified. Right now people are speculating.

[travelguy2k]

i think the neo is simply the add on processor for the psvr built in. In this way its an all in one system, but on the old systems you need the add on to make it compatible. But on the new system, since its all in one, it can make use of the extra power for all games instead of only for psvr games.

[hiawa23]

Gamers overreact to everything. I am fine with the current PS4, so that is good enough for my tastes, no matter what Sony does in the near future.

[refocusedman]

New headline: Do gamers overreact to everything?

[Sevir]

Like everything else in gaming, YES! thats the nature of the internet gamers

[RevXM]

Concerns:
I dont fully trust that the info we got on NEO will translate perfectly into the real world.
This may annoy developers and one or both version of some games may have issues because there are two versions of the system.

Also I feel like the NEO is probably going to stretch out this gen longer than Id like it to be. The neo isnt really a big uppgrade and in my eyes not worth it at this time. I would much rather have a Ps5 in a couple years and hold on to my ps4. Ps4 was underpowered and so on at launch almost 3 years ago, Neo is like what 30-40% more powerful?
Not a worthwhile uppgrade really when the current mid to high end components are way more capable.
Console generations usually see a leap in power that is a lot more dramatic than this.

A another concern I have is will this translate to a new tiny performance uppgrade every 3 years rather than a full leap every 5-6 years? will this be like the phone market with small incremental upgrades?

What about power and harnessing that power? optimizing?
When we had one powerful box or well... just one box developers could optimize and code every ounce of power out of that system... are consoles now just going to be incrementally uppgraded boxes with poorly optimized software?

A half gen small uppgrade isnt so bad in itself if done right, with strict rules followed up closelyby the console manufacturer and with proper gen uppgrades at normal intervalls... but Im worried, and Im not positive, but hey. it might be okay. maybe.. But Id rather have Ps5 this late lol.

[Castlevania]

Gamers... over-reacting? Well I'll be damned.

[oof46]

I've gotten used to the console argument or the PC vs console argument. My worst fear is the Neo vs Base infighting that could flare up.

[ILostMyMind]

Of course they are. And the media is loving it.

[nitrogav]

The main thing I see with Sony maybe releasing this Neo thing is just think logically for a while . This generation so far is totally one way steam ahead for Sony . They can`t do any thing wrong . Now we all know Nintendo is coming out big guns with whatever they have up their sleeve . Also Microsoft are playing catchup with Xbox One . Obviously they are not admitting it but really they are . I could see this happening months ago with Microsoft . Sony are not stupid and can see all this updating hardware going on and I`m sure they don`t want to be left behind . I can see a lot of PS4 owners upset about this but think about it , if this Neo comes out at the end of the year , that`s three years after launch . Technology doesn`t wait for no-one . Personally I will probably get one later after seeing what the developers make of it etc . Sony won`t split the amazing community it`s built up . Wait and see with E3 in June . It`s going to be a show of a lifetime if all these rumours are true with the big three companies .

[Movefasta1993]

Playstation Neo master race.Enjoy your sub 30fps console gaming with your peasant station 4. Oh god, the comment sections will be epic.

[kevnb]

The people with the strongest reactions are the ones most likely to be vocal.

[Aenea]

News at 11...

[Artemidorus]

Yes they are, I've seen the specs and it's a refinement not an upgrade.

If they overclock both GPU and CPU on all Playstation 4s which is likely in the future then they are almost the same.

[Kallisti]

If you think about it seriously for a moment it sets a dangerous precedence going forward. How many people are going to be hesitant of buying a PS5 in the future and just wait for the PS5.5. If the PS4.5/Neo is real, there's no way I'll be buying a PS5 straight away. when we could expect a superior version a few years later.

[Tsunade]

I will not take any side until I hear the official plans from Sony, if this is true, how are they going to manage it, the rules and a that stuff.

Then, I can make an informed conclusion based in real information and not rumors.

[sAVAge_bEaST]

Pretty sure this is so PSVR can compete with HTC Vive. - When software starts launching in the next few years.

I really don't care, I Have a Ps4 for my Tv. 1080p Tv. I don't plan on getting a 4k for a few more years.

When I go VR next year, I may get a Neo to kick it with Morpheus , to take full advantage of the headset.

This VR stuff is uncharted' territory.

[Majin-vegeta]

Yea impossible to answer when we have no idea if it exists.

[Flenter]

If you don't want it don't buy it.... It's that simple

[WickedLester]

This is just my opinion. I'm not speaking for all gamers but this is how I feel about Neo...

1.) Sony didn't just come up with this last week. This has been in the planning stages for a long time, possibly as long as the PS4 itself. However of COURSE they're not going to say anything about it early on because they know it would jeopardize potential PS4 sales in the beginning. So essentially, Sony was being deceitful to consumers by failing to mention what their long term plans were.

2.) If this had been the cell phone industry or the TV industry, I wouldn't have had a problem with it. Newer models of those products come out annually and they pretty much always have. It's understood and expected in those industries. However this is the console gaming industry and this type of practice is unprecedented. Sure, companies have put out slim models or re designed models in the past but it's never been anything like this where the newer model is more powerful and will make games look and run better. I guarantee you that NO ONE who has bought a PS4 up to the point had it in the backs on their minds that Sony could potentially release a better version of their console 2.5 years later. This is an industry that has always been about ubiquity. It's always been built on the understanding that you invest in a console and it will last 5-7 years until it's successor is launched to replace it. Not these 2.5 year half-steps.

3.) The way I see it, with Sony rolling out PS4.5 after only 2.5 years, they are essentially punishing early adopters who helped make the PS4 such a success and rewarding those who waited. That doesn't seem right to me. Like I said, other industries like cell phones, TV's, computers, etc where it expected is one thing. However I, and I'm sure many other PS4 owners feel completely blindsided by this. I feel like it's a huge middle finger to those of us who believed in and supported the original PS4 from the beginning.

[Whirlwind_Fanfare_08]

I'm a day 1 PS4 owner and i'm liking the fact there is a stronger PS4 coming out. Speak for yourself dude!

[WickedLester]

Seriously?? Did you not see my very first sentence??

[xxDeathKrampusx1]

I cant wait for neo! Who's overreacting!

[Whirlwind_Fanfare_08]

The reaction from ppl about this is ridiculous!

[EricHonolulu]

People just like to complain. Such whiners.

[jaixvx]

Don't like it? don't buy it. The game will be exactly the same but better performance on the ps4k. Simple. I can't wait for a better system give me better visuals and framerate anyday!

[Deltaguy]

this is the best way to go for me..i want a better gaming experience and i want 4k playback..on my 4k tv..this may not be for everyone but it will have a market..

[DrumBeat]

Yep. Buy it or don't. Your choice.

[blakstarz]

Yes....

[Deeloc]

I don't care for the neo.Im saving up my money to build my own pc

[cyberwaffles]

There's always an audience for you, and against you.

[Spenok]

Without a doubt yes. Especially when you consider not a single thing has been confirmed yet.

[jc12]

I think they are. It's like they want less choice from entertainment companies - not more. I don't get it. Think of the PS4K as a premium purchase within the Sony Playstation line. If you like the base model, then stick with the base model. If you want premium performance, get the PS4K. I don't see the problem, honestly.

[rezzah]

Lets see what happens when it releases and settles in. Those freaking out or hoping for the downfall of anything are too attached.

[ThePhantomHaircut]

Not really. It's a blatant anti-consumer move on the heels of the pro-consumer stances that rightfully put PS4 on top. A lot of people are disappointed and it sets a precedent that can really harm console gaming in the long run.

[DVAcme]

Yes, they are overreacting. The regular PS4 is neither getting discontinued nor is it getting relegated, it will still get all the games with the same great performance we expect from the system. The NEO is simply an option for those players who want a machine with extra punch for that 4K display they have. You won't see NEO players having any advantage in online gaming or anything like that, the community will stay exactly the same and the games will work exactly the same. Yes, the games will look slightly prettier on the NEO, but you get what you pay for. If anything, people should be excited cause the release of the NEO will probably lead to a price drop of the regular PS4, or new bundles with better HDDs and packed-in games.

[SliceOfTruth888]

They are overreacting just like gamers did with the original xbox one vision. If we keep stopping them from progressing we are going to keep staying behind in features. Games sold on disc are useless and games cant hit 1080p/60fps with the current power. MOVE FORWARD!

[MultiConsoleGamer]

No, there is definitely a cause for concern. This console could set a dangerous precedent for the video game industry. While hardware makers have much to gain, gamers have everything to lose.

Also, as someone who keeps an eye on the press, you can expect a ton of damage control articles coming from the usual sources. The PR folks at Sony are going to do their best to make absolutely sure they have the official company line running on as many channels as possible. Some of these sites will be outright shills, while others will just follow the leader, and repeat the company line for free.

This is all a make or break moment for the console industry. This is an extremely high risk scenario.

[PortalOfAwesome]

Yes gamers are overreacting to the NEO. But remember that you're much more likely to comment online if you're angry than if you're happy. So don't gauge overall opinion on comments sections.

It's simply logical for consoles to gradually upgrade rather than selling outdated hardware for three quarters of the cycle. If you own a PS4 already this will affect you literally NONE. If you're planning on buying a PS4 you'll have more choices, and it's almost certainly true that the base PS4 will have a drastic price reduction.

The base PS4 will absolutely remain the most popular model, so all games will be targeted for it. The increased GPU power is significant, but it's not night and day. It'll likely just have better resolution and frame-rate with most games.

[chaosx]

At the end of the day its the nature of tech at the current time. The problem is weening people of the idea that a console life cycle is a decade.

[showtimefolks]

yes for the main reason being we still don't know much and still haven't had the confirmation

so let's wait and see

this is a positive step in my opinion. this way both sony and ms can launch a console than release a more powerful console in 3/4 years. this way they can make the system better mid gen and bring down the price for entry models even lower for those on a budget

ps4 could end up being $249 and ps4 neo $399

[Realms]

This is going to be good for Sony but bad for consumers this type of marginal upgrade is a bad idea IMO, consoles will never be as powerful as PC's so why choose this type of upgrade for console's my guess is that it has to do with PSVR but we won't know until E3 in any event these wild rumors have painted Sony in a bad light and it sends a mix message to early adopters that have supported Sony since day one. I didn't know that people where clamoring for more power from their existing PS4 I'm happy so far so what prompted this new strategy when they are clearly a head other than the PSVR needing that extra juice.

[_LarZen_]

As usual a little vocal group of cry babies overreact. The best is to just ignore them.

[Ghostbob]

Change is good sometimes and the PS4 Neo is a step up in the right direction for me.

[MicrosoftMackin]

Only way I'd be interested is if the PS4 neo games are also compatible with PS4 and vice versa , so upgrading won't be an issue. Also to the people that say this is just like a slim revision please understand that the CPU and GPU power were the same and not drastically more powerful over each other as it is with the rumored specs of the neo.

[MagicBeanz]

Certain ones are, because if you manufacture fake outrage you might be able to turn some people against the more popular console. When you're the best and on top you're going to grt people who try to take you down.

[cd1]

We dont know enough about Neo to raise any concerns, none of us do - Its just gamer's nowadays overreact to everything. Read the wccftech comments section - drama queens as far as the eye can see :)

[illtornworld]

Idk I cant be serious after reading that PS4VSPS4Neo comment lmao. it depends on many things, if neo releases then us current gen PS4 users should still get the better version even if its not 4K compatible, idk that's just me, and wow, would they re re re re release older games in 4K??? I mean seriously. I mean id buy one just because it be over all better system but idk.. consumers shouldn't be "forced" to buy it by saying God of War 5 only on the Neo you know? that's the real concerns

[Edito]

To the author of this article: Plain and simple you are wrong and Sony is wrong thinking the NEO is the next good step.

Apple, Samsung, etc. release new smartphones that's ok for that business because without a doubt i use my smartphone way more than my PS4 i spent more than 8hrs a day in office and on streets with my smartphone it's obvious that i will demand more from my phone on the other hand i get home and play for a couple of hours, play with my kid and watch movies with my wife... when i was younger i used to play more than 12hrs a day but that is changing even within younger gamers this days and i don't think console gamers a ready to spent 400+usd every 3 years... i will say again it's a bad decision not because of the money for many of us but because it's just a bad time to do that... But that's me...

[HeyNowChillax]

That's me as well.

[HeyNowChillax]

This is not a 4K machine, it lacks the power to push 4K graphics outside of indie games and IS a way for Sony to simply get cash from those who don't feel "shafted". Many of us buy consoles so we don't have to constantly upgrade our PC's. Sure the console versions of games aren't quite as good as my PC, in some ways, but they are certainly good enough. Most importantly, the performance only improves over time on PS4 because developers have time to really figure out the hardware.

I also have a hefty PC capable of good gaming performance, but the answer to divided hardware is to buy substantially more powerful hardware because developers can only tweak so much on different hardware specs. We used to have that advantage and longevity in buying a console, which is seemingly no longer the case.

The original PS4 will never reach it's full potential with the release of an upgraded version mid life and it's a damn greedy shame. So that's $400 for a PS4, the games are more expensive than PC and most of us pay $50 per year for PSPlus. Plus controllers that generally around $800 for the hardware and life of one console; not including games. Why spend even more for a marginal upgrade over the PS4, when I could just pickup another GTX 970 for SLI or just spend $400 on something even better?

This is terrible decision and I believe Microsoft is in a good position to announce an Xbox TWO coming out in 2 years. They would take back much of the market Sony enjoyed this gen; while they are locked into supporting their PS4.5K adopters and a large number of unhappy PS4 owners looking for a worthy upgrade more deserving of their cash. Personally, I see one more year of quality games coming to PS4; after then we'll start to see the differences and be stuck with inferior versions of games from the same developers. By then I'll have a few choices to make and an ebay sale to setup.

[Gantrfaxx]

So if i want to have the best Playstation that is out there now i have to buy again??? Thanks Sony, really...

[metalgod88]

The optimal solution is for Sony to create a brand new console with parts that can easily be upgradable, much like a PC and sell that. They shouldn't be selling a brand new console with upgraded hardware that isn't upgradable by the customer just to keep up with the technology. By the time this new console is out, they'll have to release another new console in a few more years. Not to mention, the developers are going to go through the same thing the team with Duke Nukem did and we all know how that turned out...

[Truth]

I'll be buying one and I know of at least five or six other people I work with that will as well. Love it or hate it, no one is making you buy one. It just gives you the choice to get a slightly better gaming experience without having to wait a couple more years for the new Playstation console... what's wrong with that again?

[DevilishSix]

With the way tech and society change so frequently we would be naive to think that console gaming lives in a bubble. To stay relevant it has to evolve with the times, which to me means six or seven year old console cycles will not cut it anymore, especially with smart phones having powerful processors and updates annually. I think a hardware upgrade every three years is fine as long as you can keep you past hardware in the loop for a few additional years then it should be fine.

I can see games being released working just fine on a stock PS4 but also runs on a NEO with better graphics and/or frames per second. I think both camps would be happy if that's the outcome.

[TomRL]

These people can't seem to get this idea out of their head that Sony is somehow punishing early adopters. Despite all the measures Sony have implemented to make sure nothing changes for the vanilla PS4 owners. There's not reasoning with a lot of these people.

[Zer0Flinch]

Remember how DLC was supposed to enhance the experience and was never going to turn into a situation where the Dev sells you half a game then DLCs the rest?
Remember how digital content was supposed to be cheaper than physical content because it had no shipping cost? Now they're trying to sell me a 2 year old game for full price.
This is just a cash grab and if you ask me pros and cons aside I think it has more potential to damage Sony than help it, I'm not talking about the customer aspect but rather from a financial aspect.

[oof46]

"This is just a cash grab and if you ask me pros and cons aside I think it has more potential to damage Sony than help it, I'm not talking about the customer aspect but rather from a financial aspect."

(Ser Davos voice): Now, I'm not a learn-ed man, but companies don't usually ok things that damage them financially.

[Claudinho69]

thats what gamers do, over react

[ziggurcat]

yes, they are.

[oof46]

The only way this negatively affects consumers, in my opinion, is little Jimmy hoping he gets a Neo for his birthday and his grandma accidentally buys him the base model.