Why I Agree With Removing The Tracer Pose In Overwatch

ThisGenGaming says "We exist in a world where reality and perceived reality are often two very different things. Perceived reality is seeing the things the way they ought to be or we hope to be while reality is how something truly exists. The Tracer argument is a clear illustration of this ideology. In an early post to this very site here, the discussion quickly became heated between commenters. While the author I believe stated his though clearly and concisely in a healthy way, I could not help but feel a bit different. For this reason I wanted to discuss with you, the reader, the other side of the argument in an open healthy dialogue. I am not asking you to agree with me, but I am asking that you read my thoughts with an open mindset."

[Kalebninja]

Be careful you'll get eaten alive for that opinion.

[BlackTar187]

lol Kaleb i see you in every article doing your best to say it's okay to censor games based on your feelings.

The difference between you and everyone else is we don't want censors we want the creators to do whatever they want you on the other hand want them to bowdown to your misguided sense of what should and shouldn't be allowed.

If the original creation had none of what you dislike in it we're all okay with that. If it has stuff you don't like in its original creation we're also okay with that. Championing censorship to suit your personal feelings is wrong on so many levels.

[Kalebninja]

I take issues with games just like plenty of others do, its the developers choice whether they find the complaints legitimate or not, I don't care if they censor something or not but I won't support them if something I dislike is in their game. With the overwatch case it wasnt censorship in the slightest, the developers agreed that the pose did note fit her character so they are replacing it, there are still plenty of characters in the game with the pose which actually suits them, but most of the N4G community didn't read the article or even cared what the dev had to say because they just love talking shit.

[gangsta_red]

I have to wonder, did the pose being switched change anything in gameplay, design or anything overall?

Or where people looking forward to seeing a painting with a nice ass?

[DragonKnight]

Ah kalebninja. Along with ginganinja (coincidence? hmmm) and mixelon, you form the 3 SJW...keteers of N4G. Filled with blind obedience to misguided ideology, you further the cause of limiting freedom of expression to what authoritarians deem appropriate, guided solely by "teh feelz"

Let's unpack and refute.

"I take issues with games just like plenty of others do."

The difference is that others take issue with things like poor gameplay, consumer gouging, endless technical bugs, etc... Not how digital facsimiles of human beings dress, act, or pose. You are literally getting upset about how numbers are arranged. That's a level of OCD incomprehensible to me.

"its the developers choice whether they find the complaints legitimate or not."

Not really. Most businesses act on Public Relations training. Sufficient public pressure can make illegitimate arguments just as potent as legitimate ones.

"I don't care if they censor something or not but I won't support them if something I dislike is in their game."

Blatant lie. If you didn't care about censorship, you wouldn't be in any SJW article championing "feminism", agreeing with censorship that caters to your ideology, and arguing with everyone that disagrees. This statement is the same as saying you wouldn't care if the pose was left there because censorship isn't what you're after, which again wouldn't follow because you CLEARLY didn't like the pose thus CLEARLY wouldn't want it in the game and are holding your support of the game hostage until Blizzard did something about it.

"With the overwatch case it wasnt censorship in the slightest, the developers agreed that the pose did note fit her character so they are replacing it"

You mean the gave a PR statement that didn't remotely express how they really felt. Character designs are not done absent character personality, and they are not done in a few minutes. The pose was there because Blizzard thought it fit the character, if they didn't think that way they would never have had the pose in the first place. Then there's the issue that she still wears the same outfit and you can still stare at her ass in-game. Are you going to say that her outfit doesn't fit her character and the way she moves doesn't also? Gee it must be nice for everyone but Blizzard to know what Tracer's character is.

I feel sorry for people who are so insecure about existence in general that they have to project onto fictional beings.

[Swiggins]

@DragonKnight

Savage, absolutely savage.

+1 Agree

[MAULxx]

DragonKnight

+1 & bubble for you.

[PixelGateUk]

To be fair, there's a fair amount of reasonable people commenting on N4G...it's just they get pushed to the bottom in the process of replying to the others

[Hoffmann]

I once watched this old movie about cannibals, I think it was Italian. Damn..weird stuff.

[gamer7804]

while sometimes on n4g you'll get disagrees for no reason, but if you look at a pattern, you'll see that that the vast majority disagree with your opinion.

[Kalebninja]

That's because a vast majority of N4G is anti feminist, which honestly doesn't matter.

[Ashlen]

Kaleb I am in no way anti-feminist. I support equality completely, but I disagree with almost everything you say.

It's pretty safe to say it's not us, it's you.

[gamer7804]

@Kalebninja I was about to say what Ashlen was saying, feminism isn't necessarily about censorship. It's also about empowering, diversity and equality. Imagine all of the great artwork we'd never see if censorship eradicated them. I am glad the game has a powerful leading female, that is featured prominently promoting the game as much if not moreso than any other character. She is well designed and charactered.

[DragonKnight]

@Ashlen: Sorry, but if you support equality then you're anti-feminist. You can look at what feminists do to see they aren't for equality, they're for power and dominance. Ironic considering their hatred of the invisible Patriarchy.

[CaptainObvious878]

Feminism isn't about equality.

I can give you many many examples why it isn't.

[Ashlen]

@dragonknight

I suspect you neither understand what equality or feminism is if you say that.

Edited after scrolling down further.

"Because feminists are less emotionally mature than children."

Yea... as I was saying, you don't understand equality or feminism.

Making a baseless generalized insults seems pretty immature to me to be honest.

[DragonKnight]

@Ashlen: You'd do well to know something about a person you're making assumptions about before you make baseless ones.

Judging by your tone, you think equality means equality of outcome. That's not what equality is. Equality is equality of opportunity.

Let me also tell you that equality is NOT about how you feel.

NOT being cat called doesn't mean equality.
Forcing men to sit how women sit is not equality.
Ignoring biology is not equality.
Intersectionality is not equality (nor is it a word)
Affirmative Action is not equality.
Gender Quotas is not equality.

I can keep going and going with what isn't equality using only what "feminism" has been "fighting" for.

And I can also tell you what feminism isn't. Feminism isn't the sociopolitical equality of the sexes. And that is based solely on how feminism behaves and what it considers inequality today.

Feminism strives for enforced parity, not equality. This is why Feminism champions sexism that favours women all while saying that because women are oppressed (a lie in the Western world), women can't be sexist (also a lie).

So, sorry, but you're the one that doesn't understand what equality or feminism actually is.

[Ashlen]

@DragonKnight

Just shut up.

Sometimes I say dumb stuff but at least I own it. I either apologize or just let it rest. But you never own up to anything you say.

You started the whole thing by telling me what I know or don't know based on your opinion not fact. And you had to make insults to make your opinion. And now you're just trying to twist what you said till it becomes what you think will win an argument.

Equality is pretty simple treat everyone the same both interpersonally and in the eyes of the law regardless of gender, social status, skin color ect.

It's clear to me you don't know what equality or feminism is or you're one of those people who hates equality so you define it with twisted meanings.

[DragonKnight]

@Ashlen: "Just shut up."

OHHH OUCH!! I must have hit a nerve.

"Sometimes..."

A) You have yet to own up to the stupidity of what you say about equality and feminism.

B) I own up completely to everything I say about feminism. It's poisonous, sexist, misandrist, and authoritarian. I stand by that 100%.

"You started..."

I said if you're for equality, you're anti-feminist, not whatever you just said about what you know. It is 100% fact, not opinion, that feminists are NOT for equality. That's proven by their actions, not the dictionary. No opinion is needed to see how campaigning AGAINST male reproductive and custody rights, making full use of the Duluth model, and asking for more leniency in sentencing women for crimes is pure sexism that feminists are in favour of and thus NOT equality.

"Equality is..."

That's right, it is, but there are 2 BIG problems. 1. That kind of equality is not what feminists are after they are after... 2. Equality of outcome, which is not the same as equality of opportunity. Feminism is for forced gender parity and authoritarian rule, hence campaigning AGAINST Freedom of Expression (see MTV Decoded). That ain't equality bruv.

"It's clear..."

Think you have our positions reversed. But lol at "you hate equality." If your idea of equality is the Bechdel Test, Female Thor, accepted use of sexist terms like mansplain, the Duluth model, and whining about how men sit or how numbers arranged to form the appearance of a human look, then yes... I hate equality. Quote mine that to your heart's content D'Artegnan.

[rainslacker]

I'm anti-extremist myself.

I'm also anti-let someone else determine what creative minds can and can't do.

I'm also anti-censorship, despite understanding that at times, certain changes are necessary in the localization process.

I'm also anti-generalization based on preconceived notions of what a person believes to be morally and ethically correct.

I'm also anti-applying one's sensibilities across the board as if they are the only one's that matter.

Feminist themselves are cool so long as they actually stand up for and preach equality, and not supremacy.

I hate to say it Kaleb, but what you consider feminism is far from what feminism actually is. But hey, if it helps you sleep at night to feel better for supporting extreme views which do nothing but inbitter people, and make everyone go on the defensive, then more power to you.

@Dragon

While I agree with what you're mostly trying to get at, I don't like this idea that the new wave of feminism is being applied across the board to mean that all feminist believe or preach the ideals. Sort of my "I'm anti-extremist" and "I'm anti-generalize" from above.

While I understand you are generalizing, and that most here do understand who exactly you're talking about(the extremist who are more about superiority or control), the fact remains that there are plenty of actual feminist out there who are just as pissed about this new wave which is only making the things they work for harder to achieve.

My fiancee is a lawyer who spends every day fighting for actual inequalities and discrimination for women, and she, along with many of her friends, rail against this stuff on a regular basis. I've actually come to respect them, because they do not seek to demonize men, nor do they seek for anything other than equal treatment.

That being said, Kaleb and Ashlen are not within this group, and prefer more to SJW it all into black and white groups....so carry on.

On another note,

I feel the problem with new wave feminist is that they really don't have the education or ability to actually fight for a cause in a proper way. They allow themselves to feel they are right, or important to the conversation because they only put themselves in safe places where no one disagrees with them. Some have learned to gain sympathy, thus support, through abusing what most people feel is inappropriate(harassment), but all they talk about is rhetoric and hyperbole with no actual facts to back it up. Their arguments are born from their feels, and not actual data which backs up their statements to show systemic problems, thus they can never actually get to the systematic root of the problem. Their approach is entirely superficial, and sadly, it's working for them, but ruining it for both the consumers of media, the industry(in this case), and those which are much more apt to actually achieve true feminist ideals...which is equality as a whole.

[N4GGuy24]

Seriously these 12yr olds need to stop throwing around SJW ever opportunity without any knowledge. Who cares play the damn game and enjoy rather than worrying about some pose.

The developer censored it its their game not yours. They created the game and they chose what is best and have final creative direction. Someone made a point developer agreed. They werent held at gunpoint or forced so shut up and enjoy the game on its merits rather focus some something so trivial and stupid.

[Ogygian]

By this logic (and using a "12 yr old" example), if a bully tells a kid to pay him money every day, then the kid choosing to comply "agreed".

NEVER underestimate the power of intimidation, especially when it makes appeals to social conventions which those unfortunate to lack courage refuse to reject.

In this case, that "social convention" is that abomination of an ideology: the "F" word.

[johndoe11211]

Most idiotic comment of the day.

[Ogygian]

Because the good, honest folk of this site believe in a concept called "fairness". It means that everyone's opinion is treated equally, so one person complaining is considered insignificant when thousands are not.

[Kalebninja]

They don't believe in fairness they believe feminists are evil and any changes to a game is SJW censorship.

[Ogygian]

Well most feminists are obnoxious, and completely intolerant to the opinions and preferences of other people.

People don't dislike those feminists for having their own preferences, but for being so arrogant as to try and impose them on others.

[DragonKnight]

Whining about a pose is something only feminists would do. Wanting the pose removed is something only feminists would do. Why? Because feminists are less emotionally mature than children.

[SoulWarrior]

It was blatant SJW pandering, some whiny hypersensitive triggered individual got all butthurt about a pose and the dev got scared and removed it so meekly.

That is the worst part, how the devs just so easily caved in to someone who had nothing better to do with their life than complain and a fictional, computer generated characters pose.

Keep white knighting and making yourself look like a complete idiot though, it's amusing to see.

[Fin_The_Human]

Wait I am confused... Is this tracer character a dude or a dudet?

[LackTrue4K]

I take "TISSUES" with games just like plenty of others do, its the developers choice...etc etc"

*fixed

[viperman240]

"it seems that they were going for a broader acceptance
in terms of age appropriate material"

Pretty much everything this person is saying is rendered mute solely due to widowmaker being in the game.

[Vhampir]

Yup, but she's purple and actually has an ass. SJW's must love the name "Widowmaker" though. #killallmen right?

[viperman240]

Of course they love it, theres nothing sexist about hating and wanting to kill men /s

Another point I forgot to make earlier is that no one seemed to give a damn about Tracer when she did the same exact pose in the reveal trailer.

http://i.imgur.com/xKVfrhX....

[Kalebninja]

She's appropriate for a T rated game, its not like its the witcher or GTA plus its in her character to be the way she is which is a unique personality to her compared to the other characters.

[annoyedgamer]

You should stop commenting because you are contradicting your already poorly written points.

[Kalebninja]

Annoyedgamer how am I contradicting myself? And how are my points poorly written? Can you stop talking shit?

[ThunderPulse]

How are you not banned yet for trolling?

[Kalebninja]

@ThunderPulse For doing what? Freely speaking? Just because a lot of members disagree with my comments on these types of articles in no way means I should be banned. I'm not being a troll and calling me one JUST for having different opinions is pretty disrespectful bud.

[rainslacker]

Wait....so Widowmaker is appropriate,yet the pose for tracer is not, despite widowmaker also having a over the shoulder pose which shows more ass and is actually "sexy" in intention, and her cleavage out for all to see in other poses, along with a blown kiss to the camera, which is obviously meant to be suggestive.

If it's appropriate, why are you so against the tracer pose that was changed?

I mean, seriously, how much does it take to show you just how contradictory you actually are?

If Widowmaker is next on the chopping block, are you going to come back and say that her poses or emotes were fine for a teen rated game, or will you suddenly be told that you are supposed to be triggered by it, so have to tow your overlords extremist line?

[00]

Killing people A ok. fully clothed butt worse than Hitler

pandering to people who don't buy games is surely going to work out in the long run for devs.

[rainslacker]

In the grand scheme of things, this is unlikely to really effect sales at all. If it did, it wouldn't have been changed.

The only reason it was changed, or in other cases companies give in, is because they don't want to deal with the controversy on a PR level.

But nowadays, they have to deal with it anyways, but it's from the actual consumers, or at least potential consumers of the game itself. But they're easier to deal with than the extremist that make the controversy in the first place, because the actual consumers keep it within their community, and to the outside world, it seems better to placate and be PC, than it is to be an anti-conformist who hates women.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

There was nothing wrong with the pose, SJW are too sensitive.

[ALowlyRock]

The fact that anyone could legitimately be offended by that pose is just sad. Might as well blindfold yourself, plug your ears and lock yourself in your hugbox forever because things will only get more "offensive" from there.

[Ark_]

The fact that anyone could legitmately be annoyed by removing a pose (or a booby slider) from a videogame is kinda sad as well, isn't it? Worst case scenarios: they are ADDING clothing to those poor hotties ...

If someone needs a fix of "poses" and all the lovely stuff - watch teh porn. There is more of that in the freeworld as anyone possible could digest.

It's nit-picking on both sides, if you ask me.

[EazyC]

This makes me sick. Indulging these cosseted, sanctimonious morons crying 'equality' or 'social justice' is the wrong move. They will flake away our freedom piece by piece, this sort of action does not set a good precedent.

Put it like this: If it was some beefcake guy character wearing a string vest and assless chaps no one would be making a peep. Makes me sick.

[rainslacker]

Well...no one complains about professional wrestlers. Except for the female professional wrestlers who are more clothed than their male counterparts.

[DillyDilly]

At the very least nude mods on PC

[Scatpants]

The funniest thing about this is it is basically an image of a girl in yoga pants from behind. 89% of all women between 15-45 seem to almost exclusively wear yoga pants right now. Are they implying any photograph of a girl in yoga pants is too sexual?

I'm very disappointed in how uptight the world is becoming. It's like they're trying to bring back the 50s.

[annoyedgamer]

All in the name of progress!

[Pledius]

I was hoping Blizzard would fight for their creativity instead of making settlement by just censoring

o well I just won't play this game unless they fight for their creativity again

[alexlob0]

Don't like it? Maybe not buying it or using it yourself is better than imposing your believes onto everybody else? Right? ..right? Oh well, Been reading N4G for years and never had an article made me login and comment before.

[rainslacker]

The original complaint was thinking of the complainers daughter...who would "grow up" idolizing this character...as if games like these had more than a 2 year shelf life at best. It was morally corrupting the complainers daughter...which would make her daughter incapable of having her own personality.

I suspect this person's daughter is not allowed to watch TV, or go to school, or even leave the room, and if I had to guess, even play video games if this person actually believes that their daughter would somehow turn into a precocious teenage scamp.

[Hasswell-NeverCold]

You old prune. ;)

[marioJP87]

Why I agree with you being lame like the other people who complained about it.

[DivineAssault]

I wonder whats next on their agenda of things to attack.. Real problems are far too complicated to deal with so VIDEO GAMES! Yeah that will help! SMDH.. Im 100% anti feminist after listening to their stupid reasoning behind their quests for change in the US.. The rest of the world has real issues that need change but everyone has equal rights here.. Feminists out here want special treatment, not equality.. Everything they see is offensive in one way or another.