Microsoft and Square are Very Happy with Rise and the Dev team

Brian Horton Game Director at Crystal Dynamics has candidly responded to an on-going discussion regarding the estimated 300K first week sales of Rise of the Tomb Raider on Xbox One and Xbox 360.

[Hoffmann]

...OF COURSE!!

[pedrof93]

So much PR. PR everywhere... Of course they're unconfortable with sales, the simple fact of them making this statement proves it.

[Mr Pumblechook]

ROTR game director Brian Horton said "Microsoft and Square are very happy with Rise and the dev team, thanks for the concerns. Crystal and Eidos Montreal made a game we are proud of."

But what he is glossing over is the discussion is not about the quality of the game (it has reviewed very well and his comments suggest he expects a Game Awards win next week) but about the less than expected sales numbers.

[Hoffmann]

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[iDadio]

They shouldn't be happy with the clanger of a decision to release so close to some very heavy hitting multi plats. Not many was going to stand up against Fallout 4.

[freshslicepizza]

i imagine the only people who aren't happy are those who have to wait to play it.

[Eonjay]

@moldybread

Your imagination is lacking. Angering fans and contracting sales to a fraction of the last major release... having a series low launch is something that no one could appreciate. And let's be real, Square won't be making this deal again.

[Kidmyst]

@ Moldy
I've been too busy playing Fallout 4 to care for Rise, heck I won't be able to touch Just Cause for a while for the same reason. If there was nothing else to play gamers would be upset, but Fallout took care of that.

[medman]

@moldybread
You said, "i imagine the only people who aren't happy are those who have to wait to play it."

So you mean like, everybody? Because apparently nobody bought the game. Truth hurts.

[Eonjay]

Note: They never said they were happy with sales.

[breakpad]

Director Brian Horton , now you can see why it is stupid to transform a specific game Mascot with specific traits (high sexuality-strong character by default) into an ordinary woman being over the top vulnerable, with annoying forced english accent and contradicting natural born killer skills just to show us that you follow the trend of hearing the vocal ,irrelevant with games minorities ...it s true that the competition was huge (Fallout 4) but i would choose RoTR any time instead the cheap open world game, if the game wasnt so cringe turnoff ...

[kraenk12]

OF COURSE they are happy with the team...the team did a great job! It's the marketing team that screwed up badly!

[Eonjay]

Marketing? How so?

[kraenk12]

@Eonjay the marketing should have predicted it will be suicude to release the game alongside so many blockbusters including Fallout 4. Should have released it in January.

[rainslacker]

The marketing for this game was primarily on MS. MS decided to drop it's TR push in favor of the partnership with FO4. It wasn't them screwing up, it was them going to greener pastures since MS didn't have to compete with UC4 this holiday(the reason specifically cited by MS for wanting this deal).

Granted, I don't think the FO4 push really helped MS this holiday, but I haven't been tracking those sales too closely.

I can only remember seeing one ROTTR specific commercial since MS picked up the game. Most of them were compilation ads, and I saw fewer of those when they announced the FO4 deal, whereas you couldn't avoid the compilation commercials for the whole prior year. It was rather quite sad for SE, but I don't feel sorry for them because they made the decision to do this, and in the end, I actually think they will make more money this way, although they will sell fewer copies.

[Blaze929]

lmao - story comes out saying Tomb Raider bombed, Devs say it didn't and everything is okay.

Fanboys still spin that. N4G. Tin Foil Hats. We don't know anything about the details of Crystal Dynamics' deal - they were probably made straight financially since Day 1.

Like they said lol, "thanks for the concerns"

[Hoffmann]

...but for me it was Tuesday

[TheCommentator]

Many people will buy it after the holidays. When competing against COD, Fallout 4, Battlefront, and Halo 5, what do you expect ROTR to do? Plus the fact that Eidos will see the game launch on a second platform next year to get even more sales. I have no doubts that ROTR will outsell the last one once PS4 sales are factored in, and that's why the dev knows that everything's okay too. It's just bad timing on the release window to see a successful launch.

[rainslacker]

Where did the developer say it didn't bomb? Care to post a link. In fact, the dev specificatlly states he is unqualified to speak about sales, and whether or not SE or MS are happy with it because it is not his place to discuss such things.

Dev was only speaking on the quality of the game, not the number of sold copies.

[Realms]

Oh the stupidity of some people yeah fans are angry because they have to wait. No they are angry because if the game does not do well then you can say goodbye to future installments of the game, and a lot of people saw this coming. Yeah not everyone cares about stupid fanboy wars some of us actually care about the IP.

As long as they are happy it's okay for the IP to be doing pretty bad sales wise considering how much money MS paid them. Maybe this IP is destined to go back to the vault. How about X1 gamers stop talking about how much Tomb Raider was such a big deal and go support the game and buy it I know I would if it was on the ps4.

[choujij]

"How about X1 gamers stop talking about how much Tomb Raider was such a big deal and go support the game and buy it"

QFT. If the sales are bad, it could jeopardize the future of the Tomb Raider franchise.

[shallowpoint]

Very well said!!

[rainslacker]

It's not stupidity, it's willful ignorance(or delusion) which makes them create their own narratives which paint the opposing side as hypocrites or whiny fan boys with a wide swath. These deals serve their purpose for that alone, and that's why they get so excited over exclusive deals.

But to you and choujij, the best arguments I've seen on this whole discussion is telling these Xbox gamers saying it's such a big deal and such a great game, that they should just go buy the damn thing. I seem to recall that Xbox gamers buy more games being a pretty big thing around these parts, but apparently that's not really the case.

[GordonKnight]

Everyone that thinks SE won't made this deal again is wrong. It's MS that won't make this deal again. SE isn't losing money on the deal. MS paid out the as* for this time exclusive, but with huge royality on each copy sold. So the low sales is hurting MS not SE.

[seanpitt23]

Yes we have lost millions of dollars but we are all happy as Larry.

[Rookie_Monster]

If they are happy, then that is all that matters. I sure know that me and every Xbox gamers that bought and played the game are very happy indeed. Should win some GOTY awards for sure as it has propelled itself to the top of the list for my personal top 5 games of the year. Well done Crystal and MS!

1. Tomb Raider
2. Witcher 3
3. HALO 5
4. Bloodborne
5. Forza 6

[bunt-custardly]

"I sure know that me and every Xbox gamers that bought and played the game are very happy indeed."

Just listen to yourself. lol.

In case you wondered why you have so many disagrees.

Sometimes I wonder if MS plants people like you to talk up their products. OK that's possibly far fetched but you sure as hell sound like one.

[christocolus]

I dont understand why you're getting so upset with his comment. The game is a masterpiece and im sure rookie and other xbox one owners who bought the game enjoyed it. There is nothing wrong with that or am i missing something? Lol. Does he have to be an MS employee to enjoy the game?. Anyways MS and Square should be proud of the work CD has done. ROTR is a really good game and its a shame it had to go up against the might of FO4, COD and Battlefront. Really sad.

[bunt-custardly]

@Christocolus - "I sure know that me and every Xbox gamers that bought and played the game are very happy indeed."

You think that kind of comment isn't cause for ridicule?

And no not upset at all actually. Just find it highly amusing for him to make such outlandish remarks.

[littletad]

Exactly look at the disagrees simply for stating a game was great. I bought it day one, and it's pretty damn good. I've been stuck putting in 40 hours on Fallout 4, but can't wait to go back to Tomb Raider before Christmas. It's a great time to be a xbox gamer, or as few say, a gamer.

[Rookie_Monster]

Thanks Christocolus and littletad. I MEAN we are in a XB1 article and I am expressing my feelings and love for a game I had put my hard earned $60 in for my enjoyment on my console. Is that a crime? I had said nothing about sales, laughing at other console fanbase that can't play it yet, none of that, but hey, this is life on N4G. :)

[bunt-custardly]

I don't believe people are disagreeing with your love of the game rather the fact you decided everyone else who has played it agrees with you. Whether this is true or not how could you possibly know this info without asking all 300,000 of them?

[Rookie_Monster]

@bunt-custardly ^^^

Lol, will you guys give it a rest. This is a forum board and please don't take everything as gospel and personal. As I type things fast and don't go over EVERY thing perfectly like I am writing a mid-term essay.

This is what I said an hour ago in another Tomb Raider article.
http://n4g.com/news/1828734...
N4G: Rise Of The Tomb Raider On PS4: What Can We Expect?

Rookie_Monster  1h ago
"Just lightening things up here. Probably all the DLC from the XB1 season pass and called it GOTY edition or something. Great game, PS4 gamers will enjoy it."

Yes, I can predict the future too and knows PS4 gamers will enjoy Tomb Raider as well.

LOL

[Magnes]

@hazzardman your new here at least this user name is, says you joined this month. If you truly are new I'll give some advice check peoples, in this case rookie's comment history he is a persistent fanboy that trys to disguise his fanboy comments with a little sugar well known around these parts he gets disagreed based on his/her rep.

[ScaReCrow90]

Seriously?
You fanboys need to calm down. Everyone so focused on sales it's retarded. The game is good. That's what mattered to us when we were freaking 10 playing Nintendo games or PlayStation 1 crash bandicoot.

Nothing has changed. That is still what should matter. Not the stupid sales. Sales usually account for less then 10% of the console base so there you have it.

[ScorpiusX]

Not True , I agree with him on the Xbox gamer subject cause am happy I bought this TR and think it should win some awards next week .

[Ricegum]

Lol Rookie Monster's comment made me feel a little bit ill. How on earth do you you know that every gamer who bought it is happy with it? I mean, all 300k of them?

[RamRokoO]

@unreal

Bahahaha all of 300k of them

[ScaReCrow90]

300k first week and not counting digital regardless of whether you think that's important or not.
Also for all people that suck at simple math. That's first week. We're no longer in first week. This is old news. Hence irrelevant to continue using old numbers. If sales are so important to you go figure it how many sales they have now.

[muzikjunkie80]

well so far everyone i know myself included said its a pretty good game. sounds to me like butt hurt fanboys trying to downplay this again because its on xbox only at the moment.

[rainslacker]

It's probably a pretty reasonable generalization. I could say the same thing not having played it just based on the praise I've seen it get from various sources, the review scores, and knowing how well they did on the first game.

Qualifying an exact number or trying to express a lot in a quantifiable term would be a bit much for a comment like his.

[Gazondaily]

Hey Rookie, didn't you get the memo? Your enjoyment of those games is directly proportional to the sales of those titles!

Either way, I do agree with many that Tomb Raider's sales suffered as a result of MS' silly decision to release it alongside Fallout.

But the game has been greatly received and obviously many people have pounced on the sales point desperately to somehow diminish the value of the game's appearance on the X1.

I don't believe this PR statement though. The sales would have taken a MASSIVE hit simply because of the incredibly poor timing.

[Eonjay]

I think the timed exclusive deal hurt this game more than Fallout.

[choujij]

"Either way, I do agree with many that Tomb Raider's sales suffered as a result of MS' silly decision to release it alongside Fallout.

But the game has been greatly received and obviously many people have pounced on the sales point desperately to somehow diminish the value of the game's appearance on the X1."

You acknowledge one mistake, but not another. Releasing only the X1 hurt this game's sales. Yet you speak of those pointing out this obvious mistake as desperate, when in reality is it's so crystal clear to those who remain objective. What is desperate, is your attempt at damage control. You can't just attribute the poor sales to the decision of a bad release date. Other factors are at play.

[Gazondaily]

@chouji
"You can't just attribute the poor sales to the decision of a bad release date. "

Yes I can and I did. You even pasted my comment. Want me to pretend that Sony fanboys aren't being idiots with their ulterior motives in bringing this up though? You think its all genuine 'concern'?

[choujij]

@Septic

"Yes I can and I did. You even pasted my comment. Want me to pretend that Sony fanboys aren't being idiots with their ulterior motives in bringing this up though? You think its all genuine 'concern'? "

Pretend seems to a good choice for words, since that's all you seem to be doing. Like pretending there aren't other reasons contributing to the poor sales, or pretending that everyone with a differing opinion than yours must be a PS4 fanboy.

Personally, I don't see how an "ulterior motive" (if such is the case) negates the truth. If a PS4 fanboy were to say there are more PS4s sold than XBOs, would that make it untrue? Why would that be any different in acknowledging the mistakes made with this game?

Perhaps you should stop pretending and come to terms with reality. Resorting to juvenile name calling is just sour grapes. Tomb Raider bombed on xb1 and not everyone believes it's solely to blame on timing or release.

[rainslacker]

Things I think affected the sales

1. Release date with FO4. Most reasonable reason for low week one sales. Doesn't really account for anything after the first week though.

2. Lack of MS marketing for the game once they announced their FO4 deal(which released on the same day as ROTTR). MS hyped up this game in lots of ads up until the last E3, but a sole ROTTR commercial was rather rare. MS dropped their caring about this game the day that UC4 was said to be delayed, and that's likely when they went looking for a deal from somewhere else. That certainly affected sales.

3. Timed Exclusivity deal. Obviously, if you sell to less than 1/3 the fan base, or potential market, regardless of what else is available, then it's sales are going to be hurt. How that can ever be denied is beyond me. It's simple math.

I'm sure there are more reasons I can come up with, but I feel those are the biggest ones.

I know you to be more reasonable than to make a statement that the biggest, and only reason for the poor sales is because of the FO4 release. You're trying to hard to push this reason, and it's making you look rather silly.

As far as I know, the quality of the game was never brought into question in any meaningful way.

[vanity29]

I remember what they said about the reboots sales which were actually good.

Now I'm not bringing up that sales is all that matters, I'm just correcting that square might actually be a little salty right now.

[fei-hung]

No, it's not all that matters as it's not necessarily the truth.

To watch a game you slaved over get killed in sales isn't anything a developer or publisher wants to see.

MS having to watch the game do badly and people laugh at their decision to release it when they did won't make them happy.

The fact they wanted to go up against Uncharted 4, but couldn't and ended up being beaten by 3 other games isn't a thing of happiness.

The fact that SE crumbled under the backlash pressure and announced the game is coming to PC & PS4 isn't due to happiness.

This is cringe worthy PR unless MS has paid them extra for sales they didn't get, or allowed SE to release sooner due to sales not being so great.

As for gamers, if you really loved the game, you would really want it to succeed in sales or else you know the chances of you getting another become very slim.

[ScaReCrow90]

I agree. However keep in mind the micrsoft deal filled their pockets with many millions
That would probably offset the sales pretty well. still not great but if the deal was 30million that's equivalent of 500,000 games. Which would bring it closer to 1 million in sales first week based on the deal.

I think they should have released in December.

[fei-hung]

We don't know how much MS gave and what they gave. It could have been a combination of any of the following as well as all the below:

1) financial aid
2) marketing
3) inhouse development support

They have just promised them marketing and inhouse Dev support which would mean SE are still in shit due to sales.

Even if they gave all the above, if MS only gave $10million on a $50million budget, it still isn't looking too good in terms of sales.

Remember, SE are looking at making profit not breaking even. The cost of porting these games will be additional as well as remarketing these games when they are released on PC and PS4. Last but not least there is dlc and update costs.

Also, publisher doesn't see all of the $60 from the sale of a game. Retailers, distributors etc take out their chunk too.

[killer_goat]

I'm a xbox user but just can't get in to this new tomb raider. I've just got to the village buy just can't bring myself to finish it.

[Max-Zorin]

Those disagrees must be a translation, for the number of people that don't like you.

[Gazondaily]

And the number of people that don't have a Xbox One I imagine :P

[Magnes]

I have Xb1 Septic and I disagree. I disagree with this whole shady games withheld/held hostage on one system deal. Before anyone brings it up I have Ps4 and disagree with Sony doing it as well. I also disagree with the I have all systems so its not a big deal elitist attitude. I have em all but I also want those with one system to have as much access as me, console exclusives aside only talking about multiplats/outside developed games.

[choujij]

@Magnes

Well said.

[kenshiro100]

Sorry, that's PR talk. No company in their right mind would be happy with a game that sold that badly.

[rainslacker]

Why wouldn't they be happy with the game? It's a good game, and the devs did a great job and they deserve credit for that. SE was happy with CD on the last game as well...almost gushingly so, but they were still quite disappointed in the sales when it was sitting under 5 million.

Do you think SE and MS are happy with the sales though? I know one may say, play the game and not sales...which I would advise to you since you like to play sales...but the stark reality is is that if a game doesn't sell well, then more often than not the IP dies a quick death, and it's not in a publishers thinking to rationalize the reasons as being because they screwed up. Publishers almost always attribute it to lack of consumer interest, and if they don't, the investors sure do. It's just the way it is. So being a PS fan, it does concern me beyond the whole console war crap, and it annoys me because I find timed deals and sometimes even exclusive deals to be distasteful.

But hey, it's a fun game, no need to think beyond that for us as the consumer.

[psychobabble]

You left the Enix off of the name in the title. The company hasn't been known as Square in over 12 years.

edit- I see now it was left out in their official quote. Odd that they did this.

[zsquaresoff]

Typical Pr talk.

No self respecting game developer would be happy with low sales.

[Gazondaily]

So you're saying that the dev doesn't respect itself?

[Spotie]

If they're genuinely happy with the game doing so poorly, probably not.

[Gazondaily]

A dev, that strived to make a great game doesn't respect itself because the game sold poorly?

Amazing.

[Spotie]

A self-respecting dev would not be happy with low sales.

Keep trying to twist what's said into something else, Septic. Nobody's falling for that crap.

[Gazondaily]

Saying that a dev has no self-respect because the title sold poorly is frankly just retarded.

People don't seem to understand the meaning of the word 'respect' (not entirely surprising).

[Spotie]

NO SELF RESPECTING DEV WOULD BE HAPPY WITH LOW SALES.

Do not twist it into anything else.

Do not change the quote.

Do not leave out words.

Your petty little argument falls apart the moment you consider the ENTIRE sentence.

Just face it: you lose.

[Gazondaily]

@Spotie
Spotie, your inability to comprehend basic statements and questions is astounding.

I am not leaving any words out.

Let me spoon feed you (for the trillionth time):

Septic: "So you're saying that the dev doesn't respect itself?"

Hicken: "If they're genuinely happy with the game doing so poorly, probably not."

Hicken : "A self-respecting dev would not be happy with low sales."

Septic: "Saying that a dev has no self-respect because the title sold poorly is frankly just retarded. "

Its not rocket science. I'm not twisting anything.

The simple truth is, its just a case of Sony fanboys jumping on the bandwagon looking for an excuse to hate on this title because it is a timed exclusive. That's the simple truth and because so many of these desperate fanboys (you know who they are) cannot remark about the quality of the game as it has been received very well, they're jumping to the next big thing.

What did I lose exactly? Heck, I can play Tomb Raider right now. Can you?

[Spotie]

You lose this stupid argument, Septic.

The ORIGINAL comment: No self respecting game developer would be happy with low sales.

You IMMEDIATELY twisted that by leaving out the "happy with low sales" part.

You have repeatedly left out "HAPPY WITH LOW SALES," and every one of your comments does the same. That's you twisting the argument to suit your needs, and it's pretty pathetic.

Again:

NOT BECAUSE THE GAME SOLD POORLY.
BECAUSE THEY ARE HAPPY WITH POOR SALES.

Stop it.

[rainslacker]

Maybe I can clear this up for both of you to stop the bickering.

The developer should be proud of the product that they created, because it's been received well. The developer knowing this, should not be happy with sales because they have respect enough for themselves to know that it's not the quality of the game, but the screw ups of their publisher and a third party.

You do realize that devs get bonuses on sales, and those sales are directly tied to how the publishers manage the game, so when they screw up, it directly affects these developers.

If I were making this game, I'd be proud of the final product(I assume based on reception), but would have been royally upset with the timed deal because I know that regardless of platform you are cutting off a large portion of the potential buyers. As a game developer, I want people to play my game and enjoy it, not just get good reviews for it. Who cares if the game is the greatest game ever made if very few people play it. I mean, if you want respect you want it available. Was BioShock or Mass Effect lauded by PS only fans before they got access to it?

[Spotie]

I agree with you, rainslacker, but I think your words fall on deaf ears elsewhere.

From all accounts, the game is great, but they can't possibly be happy with sales, if they're as bad as we're led to believe.

[PizzaSteve]

Yeah the game is a flop. Quantum Break might be in the same boat cause XB1 gamers don't play these type of games much like PS4 gamers.

[ScaReCrow90]

When you say these types of games...you mean less then 10% of the console base for either platform.

[ScorpiusX]

Good thing its not going anywhere so it has time to grow on them ,

[RamRokoO]

@zsquareoff

But you're right it's nonsense, from what I recall square enix was unsatisfied with the 1st tomb raider sales even though it sold very well world wide. Rise is and rightfully should be well out of sales expectations, but hey atleast it was received well.

[Gazondaily]

Any self-respecting gamer would recognise the quality of a game and not desperately deride a title or the developers because of poor sales. Since when did you care so much about the sales?

Hey, at least it will do well next year when it comes the mighty PS4?

[choujij]

He never mentioned the PS4. Or PC for that matter.

Careful Septic, your fanboy is showing.

[IIFloodyII]

It'll probably do better (PS has a bigger TR fanbase than Xbox does, as sale splits between most TR games show), I don't know about it doing well though, probably depend on how hard Square push it and what it goes up against.

[Speak_da_Truth]

LOL I for one won't buy it new next year so yeah!

[corroios]

Crystal Dynamics and Square will be truly happy next year when the game comes out on PC and PS4 where they are gonna get huge sales.

For now the game is just a huge flop in sales, one of the biggest if not the biggest of the year for a triple AAA game.

This is just PR talk, because they cant say: «We are very sad that gamers didnt like the game and didnt buy it... we dont know what we did wrong... The game got a good story, graphics, reviews, gameplay but xbox one gamers didnt pick the game.»

[bunt-custardly]

Such expert rhetoric, please adopt me I want to be your son.

[Jayszen]

I think you are overestimating the response ROTR will get when it is finally released on the PS4. It will be, again, released within a glut of major games during the holiday season The point is that the game is already a year old and PS4 gamers have had to wait a year, they might as well wait a little longer and get it at a bargain price in 2017 - at a price more in keeping with an 'old' game.

Even now, the devs cannot come to terms with the fact that the majority of gamers were unhappy with what happened that the game was kept from the largest base that actually plays the franchise. Brian Horton mentions that next year is the 20th Anniversary and it was Playstation and PC gamers who have supported the game over those 20 years. Xbox gamers only got the franchise on their consoles 9 years ago. Even the reboot sold most on the Sony consoles so this exercise in greed and lack of respect for gamers should be treated in the manner it deserves.

[rainslacker]

gamers and reviewers seem to like the game. I haven't read any one say they dislike the game....which is rare. They know they didn't do anything wrong, because the developer wasn't responsible for the exclusivity deal, and I'm pretty sure given how long this developer, and it's director, have been in the industry, they know exactly why it's not selling well.

That doesn't diminish how they should feel about the product they created, in fact, it should only heighten the disappointment that so few people are playing it because they know it's good work.

[Phill-Spencer]

Yeah i'm sure that low sales was what ms hoped for when grabbing the time exclusive deal. I hope square lost alot money on this deal too so they will never do something stupid like making a game time exclusive for xbox again.

[Gazondaily]

"I hope square lost alot money on this deal too"

True gamer right there..

[Phill-Spencer]

If wishing that a company which always tries to destroy competitors with shady tactics when entering a market doesn't get exclusive deals does not make me a true gamer then i can live with that. Ms is the cancer of gaming and they showed their true faces in 2013. Just because they are wearing a friendly mask nowadays they still are disgusting ugly underneath it.

[Jayszen]

@Septic

I think U_R_weirdos is entitled to his opinion and it is valid. What happened with ROTR, a multiplatform game, should be discouraged. The money exchanged had little to do with the betterment of the game and more to denying it to one console just so the Microsoft could get an 'exclusive', albeit timed, without taking a risk.

True gamers want a situation where as many people who want to play the game should be able to play the game. If anyone was not being 'true gamer' it was each of the people involved in approving this deal.

[Spotie]

Why not quote the whole sentence, Septic?

"so they will never do something stupid like making a game time exclusive for xbox again."

Have ANY Square Enix franchises seen a better reception on Xbox than elsewhere? Indeed, haven't a few of their games flat-out tanked? Weren't there one or two games on 360 that either failed or almost failed to survive their exclusivity period?

Sounds like a "true gamer" would want things like that to not happen anymore.

I'd say Weirdos counts.

[Gazondaily]

"Why not quote the whole sentence, Septic?"

Because its still BS. Do you hope Capcom lose all money on the deal with Sony for SF5? Oh its excusabble because Sony 'helped' them?

What about Bloodborne? No?

"Sounds like a "true gamer" would want things like that to not happen anymore.

I'd say Weirdos counts."

Nah I doubt a true gamer would ever want a developer to suffer for making a good game but limiting exclusivity for a set amount of time. Otherwise, we should all hope for devs to lose money on all titles, including the one's Sony money-hatted; unless of course, its acceptable in the latter instance as it apparently is for so many hypocrites.

[Spotie]

Septic, Septic, Septic...

Capcom actually NEEDED money for Street Fighter; Square Enix did not need money for Tomb Raider. Fail #1.

Sony actually CODEVELOPED Bloodborne. Microsoft did not do so for Tomb Raider. Fail #2.

We don't want devs to suffer, but unfortunately they sometimes have to in order for their publishers to get the message. Sorta like how people's families suffer when they go on strike, but the strike is necessary to wake up the big corporation and put an end to their unfair practice.

It's not strictly a matter of timed exclusivity, but a matter of everything they did in going about it, including how they treated their biggest fanbase for the franchise.

I know that you really, REALLY want to shift the argument to something else. It's something you're good at, these strawman remarks of yours. But they're irrelevant.

The POINT is that the deal was bad from the start, and the ONLY way to prevent such a deal- and who did it help, beyond the two big companies involved in a short-term fashion?- is for people to lose and lose big.

Or what? You think Square Enix is gonna look at RotTR, see the great reviews but poor sales, and then shut down Crystal Dynamics? Or are they far more likely to take into account what we all know about where the game's fans are, include the outcry from said fans in the aftermath of the deal, and conclude that the deal wasn't a good one?

One of these makes far more sense than the other, and I'll give you a hint: it's not the one you'd have people believe.

[gangsta_red]

Uh oh...here we go again with the excuses.

Capcom actually NEEDED the money and Square didn't. Where exactly are we getting this info from other than to get Sony off the hook for using the same tactic MS did with TR.

Truly amazing...then we have fanboy quotes likes these.

"We don't want devs to suffer, but unfortunately they sometimes have to in order for their publishers to get the message."

What message is that Spotie? That if a particular game isn't on your console of choice then it won't be supported? Amazingly crude and horribly flawed. Especially when Square has come out and said TR did not perform as expected on BOTH systems so maybe, just maybe that is why they accepted the deal from MS, just like Capcom supposedly took Sony's money because they couldn't afford to make their number one fighting IP.

"The POINT is that the deal was bad from the start,"

Lmao, only to those who don't own a X1 like you right? Funny how this deal is so horrible to all the very well known PS4 only owners on this site but instead of just admitting that the deal is bad because of this you guys go into lame excuses like.."TR is associated more on PS", "TR would have sold better on PS4", "MS money-hatted TR", "Sqaure is greedy", every other excuse instead of the obvious..."I wish TR was on PS4 first."

"...include the outcry from said fans in the aftermath of the deal, and conclude that the deal wasn't a good one?"

Isn't it hilarious how strong the fan outcry is but yet you won't acknowledge the same for SFV and only because you believe foolishly that it's all because Sony is "funding" (emphasize the quotes please) the game. The hypocrisy with you and others is so hilariously strong and blatantly apparent that it's reached Zucker bros. parody levels of absurdity.

"One of these makes far more sense than the other,.."

That's the kicker line of the day right here. It makes sense only to you and others who only favor one console.

[IIFloodyII]

@Red

There's tons of evidence to back up Capcom not having, or willing to fund another Street Fighter game yet.

1, Capcom haven't released, or even announced, a single AAA game this gen without the help of a Platform holder.

2, People from the Street Fighter team said before 5 was announced that Capcom won't greenlight SF5, so don't expect it until at least 2018.
http://www.gamespot.com/art...

3, it's never going to another console, which tells me Sony are at least helping a lot more than MS did with TR.

4, http://playeressence.com/ca...

There's more, but you can look up the rest yourself, or stay in your little bubble of ignorance. Whatever helps you deal with it.

[Phill-Spencer]

@Spotie you're spot on! I'm not damning time exclusives in general nor did i ever plan to buy tomb raider anyway as i didn't buy the reboot. BUT i don't like the fact that a ip with such a long history made a comeback, after some total failures, with an generally acclaimed reboot and sold millions and square enix risks this accomplishment by making that game time exclusive for a console, on which everybody and their grandmothers saw a saleswise flop coming from a hundred miles away as the target audience simply isn't there ind acceptable numbers. It was just a deal ms grabbed neither ms nor square didn't care if the ip as a whole would suffer. So what's going to happen. Rotr underperforms on x1, then you have pc crowd where i don't really know how games like this sale, then you got the pissed ps4 players who wouldn't buy it just to hurt square, then you got ps4 players who simply move on because at the time this game releases there will be so so so many new games on ps. Of course there are potential buyers left but nowhere as much as there would have been when release were same time. So end of story. Square enix is dissapointed by the total sales and another good ip sinks into the abyss for years or forever.

[RamRokoO]

@weirdos, I feel you man. MS is not really fooling me with the "for the gamers" nonsense. Or they wouldn't do a virtually pointless timed exclusive deal that did not push their console at all. People to this day tie the titles "final fantasy, metal gear solid, kingdom hearts, tekken, grand theft auto, and tomb raider" to the Playstation. Thats just that. Trying to flip that was a complete mistake by Microsoft and they need to stop. Honestly. It was a very cancerous move. They just need to find some hidden talent somewhere and find a developer to compete with playstation developers. Which honestly I highly doubt at this point

[Phill-Spencer]

That's also a thing about them. With ms financial power, the effort to establish dev companies and hire talented developers they could have created a boat load of new and unique ip but they instead make a handfull of ip's and milk the 5hit out of them.

[rainslacker]

MS wasn't worried about pushing consoles with the deal. Spencer flat out said the deal was to have something to go against Uncharted 4 this holiday. He said that he wanted his own UC type game for the Xbox brand. That is why they got it, and in the end, they didn't even need it since UC4 was delayed.

Since we don't know the full details of the deal, it's hard to say if SE would be upset, but I do feel that MS just doesn't really care because it's kind of reflected in their marketing of the game over the past few months.

I think if UC4 was going to be a big deal this holiday, ROTTR would have been pushed more than FO4 by MS. The FO4 deal was likely pretty costly for MS, and it would sell regardless. but having a counter to UC4, and having a lot of other solid true exclusives could have been a much better marketing campaign.

[ShowanW]

Most blinded comment of day/night here.

If you want to not like MS and what they have to offer thats fine. But to flat out lie or soander for no reason is whats wrong with gaming industry.

They've only made one mistake (according to who you ask) and that's DRM.

Now outside of that tell something that MS has done that was evil that Sony or Nintendo have never done/tried before. The internet will wait...

What they should of never done achievements,internal hard drive, Ethernet only, proper OS/GUI, system updates, or be the inspiration thats started most gaming digital stores (such as STEAM or PSN).. Ooooooo i know, they shouldnt have bothered wit Xbox Live, because it gave a proper structure/ease to bow online gaming should be, and now almost everyone has based there online structure off of Live?

1st, 2nd, and 3rd Square-Enix, Microsoft, and gaming FANS know that RotTR is an amazing game. So nobody is gonna hang their heads on that front.

And if history is anything to go buy, im pretty sure Microsoft over paid for the rights, and probably wrote a nice bonus check to Square-Enix to make up for havin to go against Fallout & CoD. And when MS writes a check nobody is ever really that sad afterwards.

Get over it... Temper tantrums like this arent bealthy at all.

[vanity29]

"And when MS writes a check nobody is ever really that sad afterwards"

Except for the gamers that knew they got screwed over.

[04STIBluByU]

So charging for online gaming was a great thing? Having you pay for DLC was a great thing? Keeping games off a competitors console for X amount of time and claiming full exclusive is a great thing? Keeping Netflix and other media behind a pay wall is a great thing? Look MS knows they are rich and can get away with most things. They also needed to get their name out there in the gaming industry against the OG giants, but their tactics can seem real sleazy. Now with all this mentioned not all was bad like you have stated, but come on man please show some level-headdedness

[ShowanW]

04STIBluByU

1.) $60yr (way less if you look for it online) for structured system updates, proper voice chat, well let's just say it doesn't bother as long as things are kept fresh and I don't have to search for a voice chat server.

2.) DLC, while it sucks... Pubs/Devs are the blame as well as we the gamer.. they need to stop being greedy, and we need to stop payin for it and also stop pirating games as well. If you stop doing something they usually change the tune pretty quickly.

3.) Time/Full Exclusives have been here LONG before MS joined in the gaming front. Don't make this exclusive to them. Rather this is loved or hated, it has been a part of the industry before MS time in it. If fortunate enough in life, just get the console said game comes out on or wait it out. There are a ton of games that aren't on a console that I own, guess what I better either buy the console or suck it up...

4.) Netflix behind paywall... I got nothing for that.. I never said MS was perfect either (all these major corporations are blood suckers)

The poster said MS was a CANCER to gaming. And once again, I'm waiting for the MORE harm than good list that MS has brought to the gaming industry. Something that started specifically w/MS...

[TripleCs]

@ShowanW

People like yourself often give Microsoft to much credit for harddrives. The OG PS2 had internal hard drive support before the OG Xbox did, thanks to the PS2 expansion bay which released in 2001 (a couple of months before the OG Xbox) in a couple of regions. The OG Xbox was the first console to SHIP with a HDD but it wasn't the first console to SUPPORT HDD's.

Just correcting you and giving you a little history lesson lol

[DoubleM70]

Really what about SF5 what about BloodBorne!

You guys be killing me. If Microsoft stikes a deal it's wrong, but when Sony does it it's a love affair.

Yeah True Gamers on this sight

[Becuzisaid]

We'll hear what Square Enix really thinks at the next investors meeting.

[Tsunade]

Investors: What were you thinking by making the game an x1 time exclusive and releasing it the same day as Fallout 4? Are you insane?

[ScorpiusX]

Are you going to be there , let us know what is said . lol

[MegaRay]

SquareEnix of Japan is like "WTF is wrong with SE NA!"

[ZorinInc]

I didn't approve of the exclusivity deal when they announced it but I have gone on to get an Xbox One over the weekend and Tomb Raider included in the bundle influenced my decision. The chances of a third game because it sold so poorly should blamed on Phil Spencer for almost killing the brand.

[XeyedGamer]

ha.

[Tsunade]

The previous Tomb Raider did way better than this one and Square Enix wasn't happy at all. They have a deal with MS so of course they are going to talk some PR lies.

This is not about the game being good, it is. Is about this game should have been a commercial mega hit, a real comeback of the franchise but instead it was limited and restricted to a little fanbase on X1 where the game has never sold good enough.

[ScaReCrow90]

How can there be a comeback with this level of negativity.
The gamers choose to buy the games. The only responsibility a developer has is to make a good game. Being a fanboy is always limiting

[DJustinUNCHAIND]

The comments on this thread are very indicative of the type of customers Sony attracts.

Bitter, salty, uninformed hypocrites.

[Liqu1d]

Good job generalising a group of gamers. Everything you said could be applied to any fanboy.

[badz149]

And xbox gamers are all saints? Seriously, get your head out of your 4$$ and look at the bigger picture here! The game is great (according to reviews) but the deal with MS has literally killed it! It's not getting the exposure and sales it deserves due to money hating by MS! It was highly anticipated, delivers quality in spades and the predecessor sold over 7 mil units maybe even more!

But the geniuses over at SE thought ditching the dominant brand of console of the gen which contributed to the majority of the sales of the predecessor and PC altogether while making it exclusive to the less popular console is the best for the franchise! What could possibly go wrong, right? And while they are at it, why not let it compete with 3rd party juggernauts too? Let the quality of the game speaks for itself! Sounds like a brilliant plan! NOT!

Undeniably, there are many bitter PS fans and PC gamers regarding this decision but that doesn't change the fact that they are still the fan of the series, just not the console it's on! Who are you to judge their decision to not buy the xbone or 360 just for the game they love? Aren't you a little arrogant with that? Why not judge the xbone and 360 gamers which are not buying in droves the game MS paid for them to have exclusively? MS theselves is not doing the game a service by not only they let it released on the same day as FO4, they even struck a marketing deal with Bethesda for it! Where is the honor in THAT?

[omegaheat]

I was going to say the same thing, but with more words. It's very peculiar that so many Sony fans have these characteristics. How can an electronic device attract a bunch of jerks? Is it coincidental or has Sony been indirectly targeting this market of consumers all along? There's always a shitty comment from a Sony fan about Xbox or anyone who has one. That's the hard truth.

[Jayszen]

@DJustinUNCHAIND

It takes one to know one.

[Fro_xoxo]

"thanks for the concerns"

this bit made me laugh. .

Except the concerns aren't genuine. I'm sure the devs know this.

It's a done deal, get over it or do something about it.

[bleedsoe9mm]

i read it as a sarcastic "thanks for the concern" he knows the people wringing their hands over sales haven't played it .

[Fro_xoxo]

It IS sarcasm, that's what makes it funny ^^

[Ristul]

Yeah, it's funny that they try to come off as happy about abysmal sales, the sarcasm just makes it that much more evident that they are not happy about the sales and the negative attention it is bringing.

[ScaReCrow90]

All you salty people complaining the game isnt doing so well as if it pains you to see the result.

One question, if this is the case...did you buy a copy? If not then shut your mouth you pretentious concerned gamers.

[bleedsoe9mm]

the best game i've played this year the devs should be proud . can't wait for the stories on why street fighter V will have lower sales by excluding a console , oh wait that won't happen because the media won't write that story about sony

[FoxyGotGame]

Well I love the franchise, and in spite of the 1 year wait for PS4 Gamer's ...I wouldn't want this game to fail. ROTR "imo" is a slow burner, it has legs.

Pretty sure the sales will pick up from January, as is a less busy period on the gaming calendar. /

[ScorpiusX]

So am I ., love this game on my 3rd play thru and killing that bear is a ::::: 3rd time around ... cant wait to see the next instalment .

[vinniects]

bought both rotr and fallout 4, and to be honest if I had to choose only one after playing them both I would pick rotr.

[mark_parch]

the simple fact is most people bought fallout 4 and if you have that game you wont be playing anything else for months. I completed tomb raider first for this very reason and thought it was outstanding

[SuicideKing]

I got both Fallout and Tomb Raider. I just finished Rise of the Tomb Raider last night. It is my GOTY, so far. Shouldn't we care more about getting great games to play, then how it sells? Let the publishers/developers worry about that...

[Ra3030]

This kinda funny...did anyone expect them to say "ummm yeaaa, we expected to put Fallout 4 in the $5 bin no way FO4 could compete with our game on Xbox One". They had only one response they could use and they did. And it didn't need to be said.

[jokerisalive]

Really??? Happy with 300K sold???? I guess they will be ECSTATIC when they release next year on PC and PS4 and make some real cumulative sales that should easily eclipse these low numbers. It's there own fault anyway so its ultimately there problem too.

[DivineAssault]

Im happy too.. It scored well and i know i have another great PS4 title to look forward to

[marioJP87]

Weren't square unhappy with how last gen's Tomb Raider sold a few millions and said it didn't expectations? Yet, the new one sells only 300K in the first week and now they're happy all of a sudden? I REALLY hope the sales for this game picks up as it is freaking amazing. Gamers are missing out on this game!

[iTechHeads]

They surely aint happy bout them sales though!
Game reviewed well so of course they are happy about the quality of the game itself.

[chuckyj1]

300K doesn't count bundles or digital sales... didn't set the world on fire, but there not "terrible"... Looks like a bunch of PS4 cry babies, because MS tied up exclusive rights for 1 year on console systems...

[marioJP87]

I dont think they're crying, seeing as once it hits PS4, it'll perform much better on PS4 like the first one did. Why even cry when the exclusivity is temporary?

[skratchy]

Well, M$ gave CD $10 million already, right? So they're probably not doing too bad just yet. It's okay, sales will soar next year.

[IIFloodyII]

$10 million, wouldn't cover 1/3 of the development budget, they are happy that it released on time and reviewed well. They don't market the game, so didn't have anything to do with the sales.

[kenwonobi]

I'm ecstatic about the sales. Now a huge push to upgrade the PS4 version to recoup some losses of revenue will begin. They may add a feature or stage. Maybe some exclusive content to the PS4 edition. Boom we get the rebranded upgrade version on PS4. They make up sales with a Sony console. Also outsell the Xbox version even released a year later. I'm ecstatic.

[spoonard]

Of course they are happy with the sales, they have no competition. As soon as it releases for PS4 though, (provided the fans haven't revolted by then)you can be sure that smile will become a frowny face!! lol

[FN4GM]

I smell PR BS.