Project Cars dev, Ian Bell, says Project Cars will receive a 30-40% boost due to dx12.
Wow and he's talking about Project Cars on Xbox One Looks like DirectX12 really does have great benefits
30% to 40% (xbox one)?? Are you sure he is talking about the xbox one or PC? If he is reffering to xbox one then gooood Lawwd. If this is true then rumors about the new forza Engine (Forza Tech) being built ground up for DX12 might be true. Can't wait to see Turn 10 at E3.
Pretty sure he's talking about xbox. It's on the xbox part of the forum, and right before his comment about 30-40% he was talking about how dx12 won't fix some freezing bug on xbox. That led to the question about the improvements dx12 will provide. Then later on someone linked the xbox subreddit topic and he said it's not an exaggeration
@marlin Thanks for clearing that up. 30- 40% is a big boost. I see now why he said the Api would help Xbox One a lot. Project Cars game engine is cpu intensive cos of the Physics and all. Nice.
@christocolus From Gaf: "I know it is hard to believe, but this question (that got the reply of "30%-40%") was put in the xbox part of the forums, asking about xbox related performance. NOT pc. in fact, people informed the studio head (that made the claim on performance improvements) that there is already a thread up on xbox reddit quoting him, and his exact reply was: "I'm not exaggerating." here, see for yourselves: http://forum.projectcarsgam... so basically, it comes down to just one thing: does the head of slighlty mad studios, that just released a game on this console, knows what he is talking about? or not?" I guess the gains from DX12 for X1 are real if true.
That is insane, I will wait to see, but these guys are pretty reliable and ARE currently working with the software. If this is true it far exceeded my expectations (~10%) for which I have been called crazy for multiple times. This is exactly why people making assumptions for or against DX12 are stupid, with early level tools and shortly into availability devs are already getting a 30-40%. If this is accurate my mind is blown. Of course as always, I will wait and see.
Gotta admit, that's a sexy boost on X1. Glad to see DX12 is slowly starting to become a significant thing on X1 now.
@christocolus...I think this is one of the first times any of us are getting a real reason to believe that dx12 can make true impact on x1. I think it has been smart that Phil & Co. have been hesitant to boast dx12 for x1 and if the products end up doing the talking I think that is one of the best way to get respect with the core crowd. I don't need someone bragging and throwing out random numbers...I want proof. I hope we are going to get some more come e3 etc.
...a boost in what? Everything? Hope this applies to PC too !
Lol. I love the insane responses here when one in rare positive DX12 on X1. But when most people says opposite on DX12. Ohh. it is either some super conspiracy, he actually means opposite, or some super straw grasp. Here are also facts 1. MS engineers themselves said it was giving what X1 has to PC. not other way around. 2. Spencer said it wasnt dramatic.Multiple times. 3. Spencer later said in huge conference 30 percent for PC ONLY. 4. Witcher Dev said it wont help. 5. And many many other devs. Only other person who said otherwise? Brad Wardell who has never ever deved on console. LOL. Also, lets not start this whole "phil was just being modest and playing safe" LOL. Then why did he say it will do alot for PC? Cause he likes playing safe?
Game there is a very simple answer to your question about why Phil is willing to comment on DX12 on PC. PC doesn't have a direct competitor. Also considering people still make fun of the idea of the cloud assisting why would they come out and say much of anything. In addition they do a couple of huge shows each year, I think one is coming up in a few weeks, where people expect surprises. A boost from DX12 as well as cloud demos would be considered huge. After making strides in sales over the last month or so those surprises would go a long way toward evening things out. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
@Gamenamefame: You seem to forget that when many of these devs talk about dx12, especially for Witcher 3 like you mention, they mean that dx12 won't help for a specific game. I don't remember them ever saying it won't help with future titles. Also, Phil has always said it is more dev specific meaning someone who knows their way around the tech or is known for technical wizardry (CDPR etc.) might really be able to get some great results using dx12 while some bone heads making a decent 3rd party title might not even bother to/know how to use the added benefits. Also, when talking about Phil being modest about dx12, again, I think its just smart. MS destroyed their credibility back during the X1 reveal and the months following, so at this point, hes better served to just say it depends and then let the devs do the talking. I'm willing to go on record saying that I won't be shocked if Forza 6 looks like the original F5 pre-release demo, maybe better, while still touching 1080/60 and adding weather...probably due large in part to better API such as dx12. Bottom line is most of the people posting here seem actually surprised and many cautiously optimistic. You make it seem like everyone showed up and said the world has just changes and X1 will be better than PC or something crazy. I think you should really begin to question why you are posting here in the first place.
30-40%? Does that require an extra power brick? on topic: no way this will be happening but you guys are believing anything xbox related which is fair. but 30-40% extra boost? Can you even imagine how much that is? come on hammer that disagree button, but you people are delusional. 5-10% big max ok but 40? Doesn't happen anywhere and MS themselves said that. http://www.gamespot.com/for... maybe it was Raven working for the Kaz secret services and using Spencer's body to claim this?
@abdzine Ok Dude. Run along now.
ok, i'm on my way... *presses that DX12 button on the cockpit* https://farm9.staticflickr.... DX12 is some serious stuff.. No need for powah af da clawwwwd. check this out.. Slightlymadstudios getting 40% out of DX12.. how much will a first party studio get out of it? 200%.. i'm sure you would believe that like you did when one of MS genious PR said powaaah af clawwwd allows performance gains of 10 xbox ones. It's so true that they had to dismiss kinect to release 10%. So funny how faithful you guys are.. touching really!
I agree with abzdine on this. It just doesn't seem plausible. We have had nothing concrete about this and fans are basing hopes on the most sketchy references : 1) Gamingbolt and Bardwell article #9876 2) Phil Spencer retweeting an article 3) This case where the dev did not specifically mention the Xbox One You are talking a MASSIVE boost. 40% is absolutely huge and why are devs being so quiet? Was Phil Spencer lying when he said dont expect massive differences?? I'm not writing it off completely but I expect max 10% boosts not almost half of the bleeding console's power! Is the Xbox a Saiyan waiting to unleash its power? Come on. Well, I'd be happy to be proven wrong but at least wait for CONCRETE info before making such massive leaps of faith. @abzdine That gif is amazing :D
Yes. The components in the box are well understood. Nothing secret in there. https://mobile.twitter.com/... Phil said modest improvement. Lots of DX12 innovations already in the XBO API. https://mobile.twitter.com/... Albert Pennelo on May 23rd. So much inconsistency.
I posted what a Microsoft exec said about DX12 recently.
@Septic and abzdiine I think Ian is not suggesting the X1 will see 30% - 40% gains on every game, he is just talking about how it will affect their game. http://forum.projectcarsgam... http://forum.projectcarsgam... It seems their engine performs really well with DX12. This doesn't mean every game will see 30-40% gains.
I wonder if the people who are saying a 30-40% increase is huge when it comes to performance are the same people that say a 30-40% increase is minimal when it comes to image quality (pixels).
It might be the Xbox thread but he might just be getting his wires crossed. I would think he/MS would be quick to announce this from the top of mountains if true
Why would they be quick to announce a 30-40% increase in a game that's already shipped that's in a genre that they already invest in themselves...
Because a 30-40% boost is massive and would prove that DX12 would allow devs to make huge gains on the Xbox One, something which Spencer himself has been quick to downplay. I wouldn't get my hopes up on this.
To be honest i do not blame Phill Spencer for not shouting from the top of the roof tops about DX12 gains on X1 because it will wnd up coming to bite him in the ass. The truth is that, i believe at the time of him making that statement, he really did not know. Some game engines currently ab=vailable even if updated may not see a boost, some could see as little as 5% and some like Project Cars could see up to 30%. If Phill were to say 30% gains on X1, everyone will expect to see at least 30% gains on every single game and if it fails, then it will just turn into "cloud power" fiasco all over again. It is best he keeps quiet and either let devs do the talking or wait until E3 when they have games to show that are built from the ground up with DX12. In my opinion, DX12 will certainly make a difference but how much i do not know. If it is significant enough to push a game from 45 FPS to a stable 60FPS or 25FPS to stable 30FPS, then that is a good enough boost for me.
i remember reading something from MS about avoiding actual figures as it greatly depends on the developer.. maybe thats what these guys expect for their title
Well I hope I'm wrong but that's a MASSIVE jump and I just can't see it happening
I think they have been keeping quiet on it because it will require devs to go back and patch in DX12 for older games that are not built for it and likely that isn't going to happen for most. Also, there probably is a varrying amount of performance gains to be had based on each game. More CPU heavy games may get better boosts vs GPU heavy... and again, we would only see those boosts to existing games if a dev goes back and patches it. On future games ...really we wont see a difference because there wont be something to compare to in all likely hood. The game will just be a DX12 game we will just see that version.
They can't as it is on a game to game basis. That by the way MS already said. For Project Cars the devs will extract a 30-40% boost on X1, for another game it might be nothing to 10% and for new games designed around DX12 it might be more than 40%. DX12 related improvments stand and fall with the dev-teams choices on how they built their engine. That is why MS can't come out with a specific number.
i agree with you and abz. I think this much of a boost is only possible if his game was already poorly optimized to begin with and he perceived this boost as such a massive boost.
He did not specified on what platform, this is probably for PC not Xbox One.
For PC posted in xbox one section of forum? And he was talking specifically about xbox one few posts before. So please read before making stuff up.
Check the reddit link above for the devs confirmation that he was speaking about the X1, and that his claims aren't exxagerated.
It's about time the X1 gets an API comparable to the PS4s.
X1 cpu actually performs better than ps4's
@TheGreatGamer X1 cpu actually performs better than ps4's Good call. The CPU itself plays a big role in making multithreading processes to function more efficiently when DX12 is added to the equation. The faster the CPU(with DX12) the better the multithreading process will be between hardware components.
PS4 is getting the Vulkan API and that's OpenGL. It's also said to be better in every way than DirectX 12.
@DarkZane sony is not interested in vulkin stated that sony current api already gets closer to the metal
Go back to page 6 in the forum he said its a 5% gain on X1. He is not talking about X1 when he says 30-40%.
Yeh, you're right..... Page 6 Post #54.
Quote Originally Posted by dante View Post oh good, hope to hear something soon on PS4 performance. Reply from Ian : forum post #54 in same thread. PS4 is pretty good already but there is much more to come. Let's roll a hypothetical. Say Sony were to emulate in some way the main benefits of DX12 on their machine. Well, we'd see a good improvement as our engine loves it. Also, and less impressively, the 5ish% improvement we've found on Xbox One also adds a little to PS4. There ya go, strait from Ian. He is not talking about X1 getting 30-40%. Don't get your hopes up guys. Also later in the thread people were asking for confirmation on what he was even talking about talking about, and got no reply.
I think he was referring to the 5% that they've already gained. Later someone asks specifically about dx12, and he specifically says 30 to 40% performance gain. It's pretty clear.
I somewhat agree with you. Last I looked, there was no reply to confirm the boost was for XB1. It was posted in the XB1 thread, but it is still speculation (90% sure it's about XB1 though) because there is no specific mention of platform in that post. In regards to post #54, however, listen to his words: "...hypothetical(ly)... say Sony were able to emulate... the main benefits of DX12...we'd see a good improvement..." This is clearly not implemented yet, as it is hypothetical, but here's where it gets interesting. "ALSO, the 5ish% increase we've found on XB1 also adds a little to PS4." This is clearly a separate event from any DX12 gains because it has already happened. We can therefore rule out this 5% comment when talking about future DX12 gains.
@lifeisgamesok...You aren't kidding. This is coming from a good source too who doesn't benefit from spreading false info. I really hope dx12 can do what some claim. And I am really excited to see what Forza 6 might look like next month.
Nope sorry guys it's about PC
i doubt dx12 will make much of a difference over the modified mantle api currently used.
no, he's talking about PC: http://forum.projectcarsgam...
Gat damn. Dat Dx12 be some gud stuff. That's really good news.
If this is for Xbox I'll be really surprised. It would be huge for the XB1. 30-40%?? massive improvement.
Five days ago, on 23 May, Albert Penello wrote the following on Twitter: "Phil said MODEST improvements.LOTS of DX12 innovations already in the XBO API".
Depends on what your definition of modest is cuz i would say 10-30 percent gains is modest. Slightly higher for cpu intensive games so 30-40 for SMS is believable. Big or massive gains would be 50 or more percent gains and if you think about it, 10 to 30 percent gains on the current hardware isn't going to produce a dramatic difference from what the box is already capable of. Itl just do what its already good at just a little bit better which will equate to higher/more stable frame rates, and most likely get games pushing 1080p more consistantly. DX12 biggest benefits i see apart from efficiency gains, is making it easier for devs to get power from the hardware, and porting between platforms with windows 10.
I guess it just depends on if and how the engine can utilize dx12 but if he's saying 30-40% boost on XBO then that's beyond significant. Can only imagine an engine built from the ground up for DX12.
Where's the naysayers now? Haha eating a foot sandwich I assume. On topic: When you think about the basic idea of Mulitcore processors finally being utilised in gaming- workloads being split between cores and being used properly for the first time in forever, of course there is going to be a performance boost. Not to mention all the other benefits DX12 will bring. Knowing MS, they are just keeping the best results as a surprise for E3.
Considering nothing has actually happened yet, i wouldnt be so quick to call out the naysayers. If this turns out to be for PC and not Xbox, you may be the one "eating a foot sandwich"
It won't turn out to be for PC as he already said he was talking about X1 just read the forum posts will you damn and pc could look at a 200 percent increase and we always knew X1 would be less so seems about right
@BiggerBoss Ian Bell was talking about X1, read the forum tread from the start, you'll see they are in fact talking about X1, not PC. See links below, http://forum.projectcarsgam... to which Ian Bell responded http://forum.projectcarsgam...
We'll see. It might take a year or two for all big developers to take advantage of dx12. Not every upcomig game gonna look better cos game engine needs to be build for supporting dx12. I hope this news is true. X1 needs some performance boost against PS4.
I see no evidence he was talking about Xbox. Looks like just a general convo about DX12, and not clarified which platform he was referring to. You, and the other fanbois are jumping the gun way to early.
His comment was made in the Xbox One forums.. Then a poster cautioned him, saying that people in the Xbox One Reddit forums are already quoting him.. He replies saying 30-40% is not an exaggeration.. What more evidence do you need?
I would guess X1 is the subject as quoting PC gains isn't wise at the moment due to the various hardware configurations and dx12 is supposed to help Amd Cpu's more but I'm talkin out my arse.
As I said: http://n4g.com/news/1733331...
Yeah, I admitted I was wrong in the thread, a little ways down. Ian Bell was retarded to not make it clearer and specific. Oh well, My life doesn't depend on project cars being improved. I'll never own the game anyway.
I would be careful making comments like this. If people don't see a massive difference he going to be directly in the crosshairs for over promising and under delivering.
Damn , wow
Q. Ian - as you have been quite open about DX12, what would be the benefits for project cars utilising DX12? A. About 30-40% If we look at the question, there is no specific mention of the Xbox, just DX12 with Project Cars. So based form that I am assuming that he means the max increase will be felt on PC. I'm sure the Xbox will benefit but 40% seems way out of the ballpark of what other Devs and Mr. Spencer himself have been saying regarding the benefits of DX12 on the Xbox One.
I'm leaning towards this statement being about PC also. At the same time though, Phil never mentioned a percentage. He simply stated it won't be a "massive" change on the Xbox One which is pretty gray. We can't say Phil says 30-40% isn't going to happen simply because he said it won't be a massive change. Over a year ago he set the expectations here, "When you think about start of gen to end of gen teams learn a lot. DX12 will help as well, think PDZ to Halo 4. " https://twitter.com/XboxP3/... What percentage would you call that?
Honestly... I would love to see the Xbox get a 40% boost. I own one so of course I would like this to be true. We have been subject to corporate games, slight of hand, lies, downgrades, unhealthy console biases, #dealwithit's, #gamergate, secret sauces, clouds and it has been raining hard since this gen kicked off. I am jaded by the sheer amount of aggression that has manifested since then. If we or I say that it is the xbox that will get 40% then when the facts come out that the increase is only say... 14% then the hyenas are going to be cackling till Christmas. To much emotion is being put into science. DX12 will be great, for Xbox and PC, the fact that we get a free theoretical upgrade to our hardware through software should be a win, plain and simple. Unfortunately many don't see it as simple as that, again too much emotion mixed with science. To answer your question regarding what percentage I would call PDZ to Halo 4 I would hazard a guess to say... 30-40% lol :D All outta bubbles :(
Great points. I also wonder off the top of my head what percentage increase would it be to take a lot of these 900p games and make them 1080p? wouldn't that fall into the 10-30% range? (I have no idea)
I'm not sure games need to hit 1080p natively. All the games are output at 1080p once they pass the upscaler. If the native games are the same quality with an artist placing the pixels vs. the upscaler, what is the difference? I want to believe increased texture quality and stable frame rates are more important. I am honestly more excited to see the features of Windows 10 integration than I am to see a performance bump. I'm not seeing a significant difference between my PS4 and Xbox One as it is. Having an unseen increase in performance is hardly as exciting as the increased features and compatibility with PC and mobile.
Phil said it the benefits depended on the game. Also if it was built from the ground up.