Bethesda's inaugural E3 conference will tell us a lot about the company's future and the future of games in general. What should we expect from them, and what do they need to do to knock it out of the park?
Starfield's creative producer, Tim Lamb, reflects on the game one year later, telling us that Bethesda is its own harshest critic.
"telling us that Bethesda is its own harshest critic."
If this is actually true, games from this company will never be at current standards.
It's a thing people say to make them feel better. Pretty sure their biggest critics are unrelenting gamers who love to hate for longer than it's worth.
This is true. And I would like to add their critics are also people that liked their games but had to begrudgingly move on because of the drastic drop in quality.
Hannan from eXputer inquires: "Bethesda games' fans will likely be familiar with using mods to make its titles playable, but why do players do what Bethesda should?"
"Bethesda games' fans will likely be familiar with using mods to make its titles playable, but why do players do what Bethesda should?"
Because players won´t have to do the heavy lifting job, which is: create, planning, test, and pay 5 hundred developers out their pockets.
Because it´s easier to create mods that breaks a game when you won´t face the consequences of your failure, you don´t have to endure pressure of any kind by higher ups or have to put yourself at risk of losing your job. That´s why.
Players are players, not creators and they shouldn't be required or preferred for them to do any type of creating
What about low level creators who enjoy doing it?
Also I'm pretty sure it's not required.
H9,
But only... it's not required, and some people like modding. There are thousands of mods for thousands of games.
every one of their games can be played from beginning to end.
Your comment makes no sense. Most modders are doing it on their own free time and aren't expecting anything in return.
The Bethesda games are playable without mods.
This article all the way down to the comments is just knee jerk hyperbole.
"test, and pay 5 hundred developers out their pockets."
500 devs, but spaceship space travel in a space game is missing. good one.
meanwhile on 'No mans sky': https://www.youtube.com/res...
Obscure that's a bs excuse. No way around that. I'm saying that as someone who generally likes their games.
@shinoff2183
"Obscure that's a bs excuse. No way around that. I'm saying that as someone who generally likes their games."
It´s not excuse, it´s a fact!
How many games had Nexus developed after all those years?! You´re right... none! Have you ever wondered *why*?
I´m willing to bet that you don´t even know that some of the best Skyrim and Fallout 4 modders were in fact hired by Bethesda and are actual developers behind Starfield! THAT game you sh!t on? Yeah, some of those "lazy and/or incompetent" Starfield developers used to be highly regarded as modders on both Skyrim and Fallout 4 back in the day, because they obviously weren´t the people in the front lines.
So you can´t stop with your fake concern act, because for people like you modders are "heroes" until they eventually get hired and have to deal with actual development of a game, everything that it entails and be held accounted for its final quality.
Again, to create mods from someone else´s work is easy when you don´t have to develop a game from the scratch or been held accounted by anything, including the backlash from "fans" such as yourself.
Come on now lol. This has to be one of the most backward responses I have ever heard. The question was 'why should players have to make mods to make a game playable'. Your response is Bethesda shouldn't have to make their own games playable because... it costs money and because the pressure of losing your job?
This is unreal.
@Eonjay
"This is unreal."
What is truly unreal is you calling Bethesda games unplayable. After that, I don´t think we should entertain this conversation any further.
But the question beckons. Is the game playable without mods? I haven’t played it, but from what I’ve seen and heard plenty of people have finished or still playing without mods. So the Title is deceptive.
There is some truth in what you say about the time to create, plan, and test. But, if it takes a handful of modders only a month to create a massive improvement to the game, why aren't Bethesda doing that themselves? Why leave it as it is knowing full well what the community has done? And I'm not talking about graphical options, just from UI enhancements, performance fixes, gameplay enhancements/options, and the like?
Not to mention the simple step of making any of the unofficial patches ( skyrim, fallout) a real official patch. These things have more testing hours than any mod bethesda has put out themselves.
Because modders are free to do what they, not what they´re told.
Studios are organized by a set of priorities that developers will look into given order of importance and relevance. Critical or more serious issues will always comes first.
Modders might have interest in the things that you mentioned while Todd might have something different in mind.
I mean, whenever a more serious or critical issue pop up like crashing, freezing, save files corrupted or deleted, it automatically becomes number one priority above anything else. All that at the top of two big upcoming expansions they´re already working on.
@Obscure_Observer: You're sidestepping the argument, which is that Bethesda as a company isn't making these decisions by trying to make it about who is told what to do and they can't do it is the issue. The people who make decisions are the ones not getting this done, that's the point.
***while Todd might have something different in mind***
And that something different is doing nothing until over a decade later with a repackaged upgrade. Again, it took the modder a month to implement, if that, and update it with updates as necessary. Bethesda should be surpassing that. They are not.
Every developer has to create plan test.
no one told them to make a game of that size if they couldn’t handle it, they should’ve lowered the scope.
Their games are notorious for not being polished. They rely on the mods to finish their dirty work going as far as to call it a feature (starfield).
It’s easier to create mods that brick a game when you don’t face the consequences of your failure?? They are FIXING the broken aspects That higher-ups allowed to be shipped in the first place.
Thats why you’re argument is invalid.
Exactly, Bethesda builds game like Boeing makes their airplanes, in terms of quality... :/
Obscure I think you should ask your handler to send you a fresh set of answers. The shilling had been showing for some time now.
Good luck.
Skyrim has bad UI, one of the most recommended mods is SKY UI.
Starfield has bad UI, most recommended mods is star UI.
Bethesda knows the mods exists
Bethesda makes bad UI
are u saying that those 500 developers are not capable of delivering a functioning game?
are u saying that we should fix their game, which they charge us for?
are you saying that ur ok with broken games?
Have been playing Bethesda games for ages without mods. I didn't know the games I've been playing were unplayable...
Same here. i guess we have been doing it wrong from the start.
Now i have used mods in other games (not Bethesda) because they either change the dynamics to be more balanced or they give the character more pizazz but, again, those are not required either.
yeah idk what's wrong with those people. Playing Starfield probably popped a vessel in their brain and now they can't remember anything accurately anymore.
Actually watched someone do a playthrough of Morrowind and Oblivion and it was completely fine. No it wasn't without bugs and no it wasn't perfect but he had a great time playing it and me watching it, without any mods, can you believe that?
They aren't unplayable, just janky as shite. There are many things outright broken in their games 10+ years later that only mods have bothered to fix. Also you can't forget most their games have been in pretty broken states at launch. Each more or less, but broken nonetheless.
"Have been playing Bethesda games for ages without mods. I didn't know the games I've been playing were unplayable..."
Exactly! Me neither!
Same here. I played Fallout 3, New Vegas, Skyrim and Fallout 4 vanilla with no issue at all. I honestly only remember one bug being i needed to fix was Fallout 4's incredibly long load times on the PC. Which I fixed with dropping a single file into the directory.
Funny how I actually did. Beat it three times, twice on the 360, and again on PC. Sorry you had a poor experience.
Unplayable? Nah. But I'm 100% waiting on content mods before I step back into Starfield. It needs more content.
OG Skyrim on 360 was so broken that in the starting sequence Ralof doesn't even speak, he just stares at you and eventually the cart goes towards a wall and gets stuck. The game was literally unplayable.
That's what I was thinking. Sure, mods can make the games better, introduce QoL changes, etc., but they're in no way needed to make the games *playable*.
Replies(2)Mods should be more accessible on console, it sucks we can't get stuff that adds assets and change npc scripts
I believe that limitation is only on PS. That was the concession Bethesda had to make to get PS to allow mods for Fallout 4 and Skyrim. On Xbox you can get new assets like weapons, sounds, textures, etc.
True but sometimes I think sony drags Microsoft with them like with the stalker collection mods. Sony has a lot of terrible and outdated policies like returning games , they're lucky that they can deliver on games because they're terrible in a lot of aspects, just look at ps stars it's been broken for like a month, that's not what you expect from a massive company
so they made one game that is awful and even mods cant fix it and now all of a sudden their whole library is unplayable? people use so many mods in skyrim cause it's a 15 year old game and by todays standards just doesn't look great and there is so many mods available out of love for the game so why shouldn't you use them?
Piss off
There are two reasons why all those Bethesda studios closed, and neither of them have anything to do with Bethesda (directly)...
Game Pass and Activision.
The guy confirming what we've all (well, most of us) been saying since the latest purchase.
Remember the relatively common counter that went something like "I'm sure you arm-chair CEOs know better how to run a company than the biggest company in the world"?
I mean - there's a lot to running a company for sure, but on this topic it's hard to understand how Phil and team didn't see this coming.
Phil and team knew it was coming and planned for it. It's not even a conspiracy, it's simply the business of cutting costs and superfluous studios after a major acquisition. They don't give a damn about Tango Gameworks or other small creative studios that won't recoup their losses. They don't care about investing in this industry. They have no interest in risky and expensive new IP. They are only interested in profiting off ownership of Bethesda IP, Call of Duty and Candy Crush.
I guarantee you that not one single game under their banner will improve or become bigger and better.
Welcome to the Xbox family, what a pathetic joke.
Anyone who continues to support this, enjoy your future, because this is it. Ninja Theory is next, and Perfect Dark after that.
Especially not with the evidence of tons of existing movie streaming subs out there and how they fail to make a profit with over 100m users each quarter.
It's actually really simple. CEO don't have it hard at all...they make decisions that everyone else has to accomplish. It's the actual low level employee leadership that makes things work well.
Besides that it is obvious when you use simple math that something was going to break.
Apparently they're debating if they wanna put the new Cod on Gamepass or not.
Either grow GP with Cod or don't put it on GP and grow the revenue the traditional way while GP will suffer.
The mess that MS puts themselves in.
LOL the cheerleaders for the ABK acquisition were all cheering for CoD to be on GP day 1 and they were adamant that Jim Ryan was scared because of THAT and was fighting for the survival of the PS brand if CoD is taken away or given day 1 on GP. hahaha...now suddenly MS is unsure if they wanna put CoD on GP day 1??
isn't this false marketing? they said ALL (not some) 1st party xbox games will be released on GP day 1 and CoD is now 1st party starting last year! it's right there still on their website.
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/...
lawsuit time??
@badz149
People were being blind fans. Things is if you look at things objectively and logically since inception, gamepass from a business perspective was never going to be good idea unless you had hundreds of millions subscribed, which Microsoft was never going to get in a timely manner.
People kept pointing out the cons and people kept having their hands over their ears. I wonder how guys like Orchard and Septic who were rooting for the acquisition to go through like people do when their team makes it to the Superbowl are receiving this news lol
Honestly i think Bethesda needs to buy themselves out of zenimax/MSs hands and do their own thing, i honestly think that would fix a lot of issues and save them from a potential closure.
There's a reason they sold in the first place. And Bethesda is not closing anytime soon lol. As much as I hate the studio closures. They were all small studios 2 of them were mobile studios.
I think these are growing pains and Xbox will get back on track. But they're not getting any more passes.
I’d like to see your reaction to being growing pained out of your job after the launch of a successful product.
Excuses, Excuses, excuses.
If growing pains have been happening for the best part of a decade, they're not growth.
Zeref nii San
I'm sorry but xbox has been rightfully bashed due to constant incompetence
Ah Zeref head in the sand like a idiot. Gamepass is a absolute failure like we all told you. Nothing at this point will turn this around. It's not growing pains, the growth is done. Even streaming with 100 million subscribers can't turn a profit and you think Xbox with Gamepass will turn it around? Lol.
It's not a coincidence that Xbox stopped announcing Xbox Gamepass numbers just like they stopped announcing Xbox One hardware numbers and no Series S/X numbers which are behind the Xbox One even.
Remember when we said Xbox customers don't buy games?! Lol. Well this confirmed literally everything we told Xbox fans that said Gamepass was very profitable? Sorry revenues and lack of profit suggest otherwise
Can't wait to see your reaction when their 2nd round of closures happens. Perfect Dark studio and Ninja Theory will next.
No, this isn't growing pains. Xbox has been on the scene for over 20 years.
This is Microsoft not being content with competing, they want to own and control the industry. Buy out as many major devs/publishers as possible so that they own all the IPs. It's only the IPs they care about. Not the Studio's, not the people. They're an insidious, cancerous company and are the worst thing to ever happen to the gaming industry.
Bethesda greenlit Redfall, launched Fallout 76 in the condition it was in (and the fiasco with the bonus bag), and spent all that time on Starfield finishing it as it was with that same engine. Wolfenstein Youngblood exists because of them too, not Microsoft.
Are you *sure* leaving them alone would actually result in a better outcome, not just a different one?
A lot of this excessive monetization, and GAAS crap started when Zenimax decided to start looking for a buyer. Not a coincidence that there was a sudden shift in prioritizing profits above quality or even coherence at the same time. They wanted big numbers to attract buyers, now that they've been bought, MS wants exactly what they were baited with.
However even under Zenimax they made enough to self publish sometimes, so i would imagine it's not too far fetched that they could pay their way into independence if they REALLY wanted to.
Also even people at Bethesda and Arkane were hoping MS would cancel the game as again, they were forced to make something they didn't want to make.
Havent seen any decisions since the buyout that lead me to believe MS knows what to do with them either . Easiest one would have to be the fallout 4 upgrade...with minimal effort it could have been a big win for leadership...but nope we got a standard Bethesda release for a patch.
Tacoboto. Bethesda greenest it to be made. Ms greenest the release. Remember phil telling us he don't know what happened because it polled well behind closed doors. Nice try on that one with redfall. In the end it was on Ms not Bethesda
Ah, we can see how the Microsoft media machine works.
Every article I read now is some kind of attempt to shift the blame off Microsoft and paint them as the victims or convince people that Microsoft mistakes were just some kind unforeseeable unfortunate twist of fate.
The shills are out in full force today.
This is not at all what this article is saying. It's saying that honest and useful studios are getting closed because of big money deals elsewhere and the faults with game pass as a model.
I understand what the article is about.
It's a deflection, it's a putting the cart before the horse article.
Let me tell you how this problem wouldn't have existed in the first place.
Microsoft not creating a service funded by subsidization and having the foresight to see that it would disrupt consumer spending habit to begin with. Then not buying Bethesda and undertaking costs for a service that was already failing to pay for itself because their own expectations of Game Pass having "billions" of subscribers was unobtainable from the very start.
And if you don't think that was the case go back to the article on the day Game Pass launched and read the comments from people from day one who foresaw that this would be an unsustainable model and would cause people to stop spending in the same way.
***Microsoft not creating a service funded by subsidization and having the foresight to see that it would disrupt consumer spending habit to begin with.***
This article literally supports this opinion. He's not praising Game Pass or the ABK purchase.
This is an explanation of why it failed, there is zero blame put onto Microsoft itself.
Yes, it talks about what went wrong, but it doesn't say Microsoft shouldn't have done it. It doesn't say Phil should have foreseen this outcome and stopped before it got to this point.
"convince people that Microsoft mistakes were just some kind unforeseeable unfortunate twist of fate"
Thats what I took from the article. Maybe we're mistaken Christopher lol
It saying why it failed puts enough blame on Ms imo. Eben if they didn't come put and say fk Ms etc.
***but you're seeing the impact; all those smaller studios making really interesting games are going to fall away, simply because as good as games like Hi-Fi Rush are, they're never going to make enough money to make up that $70B hole that Xbox now has to dig itself out of.***
If you see that as support or you explicitly just want people to end their argument with "and, in conclusion, Microsoft bad" then that's on you. This article does not support Microsoft's choices and highlights the faults. Nothing it says is good about these choices, even saying that putting CoD on Game Pass would be money losing for them because they've set themselves up for failure (and not putting it on there will drop subscriber numbers like crazy, meaning their Game Pass plans were shit to begin with).
No matter how you look at it, they're saying Microsoft made decisions that hurt the bottom line, force closures, and leave Game Pass in a situation where they lose no matter what they do. It's all negative.
Christopher, if Microsoft hadn't made Game Pass and bought a bunch of publishers would this article even need to exist?
***Christopher, if Microsoft hadn't made Game Pass and bought a bunch of publishers would this article even need to exist? ***
How is this an argument to anything being discussed? This is just as valuable of an argument as "if fish had stayed in deeper waters, they wouldn't have evolved to tetrapods, adapted to shallow water and then to land, and we wouldn't even exist and have to worry about game pass at all."
You're bringing nothing to this argument and then complaining that other people are highlighting the issues with Game Pass and spending tens of billions on studios because what we should be discussing is what it would be like if Microsoft hadn't done any of that.
Well, they did do it. Now pull up your big boy pants and join in on the discussion of what that has meant for the industry since then and, especially right now, how that is affecting the industry and game studios under Microsoft. None of us are able to go back in time and change what was done.
Christopher, this isn't me not understanding what the article is about, it's you not understanding what I am saying.
If you want me to make excuses for Microsoft's bad decisions you're not going to get that or just agree with people who are doing that, it's not going to happen, nor are you going to convert me into thinking xbox "needs to exist".
Ya know what, maybe "Microsoft bad".... maybe their decisions ARE having a negative effect on the industry, and instead of deflecting from their actual actions and making excuses for them we stand up and say "no" "Microsoft is hurting the industry"
And maybe, just maybe, it was so obvious that this was going to be the outcome that even nobodies in comment sections on websites were able to easily predict this outcome, yet Microsoft did it anyway then kept doing and even when it became undeniable that it was having a negative impact on their business and and the industry itself, then they knowingly made even bigger purchases and caused more problems.
And the one thing you're right about is that I can't go back in time, but I CAN speak up and try to keep it from happening again...
Maybe if the people who were speaking up 7 years ago were listened too we wouldn't be having this discussion and Tango and Arkane would still be in business along with all the other people who have lost their jobs due to Microsoft's actions.
Do you like analogies?
What you're saying is like an alcoholic crashing their car then trying to explain it by saying it was caused by everything except the fact that they were dunk because they are an alcoholic and don't want to stop drinking.
Why the excuses here? Microsoft did one thing no other company can do which is subsidize Xbox with these insane purchases in hopes of suffocating the industry out in hopes to be the last one standing so they can charge whatever they want.
How are you excusing this crap even and putting your head in the sand here? It's pretty clear who is at fault here for the situation they built and put themselves in. It's them trying to push everyone around with cash that no one else can compare.
They knowingly did all that and now are trying to pretend the market is to blame? Lol. That is absolutely rich irony. That you can't see the forest for the trees here too.
The article is essentially focusing the blame on MS. GamePass was a hail mary play to change the gaming paradigm and carve out a special niche for themselves, emulating the Netflix model, that might have led to MS becoming the leader in the long-term. Unfortunately, the subscriber growth isn't really there, and the model isn't really built to weather that lack of revenue. MS is now in a restructure mindset to figure out how they balance out their model in a way that can still make them money.
've always believed that GamePass was a high risk shot that had a very low chance of long-term success. But the problem with it, whether it succeeded or not, is that it accelerated the proverbial "race to zero" consumer expectation that ran its course in the mobile gaming industry in the late 2000s. When consumers start thinking that games should be "cheap" (as in through a $10/month all-you-can-eat subscription model), it turns the narrative against games being priced at realistic levels. So with the GamePass failure, they've not only sabotaged their market share, but they've impacted the entire industry and devalued the cost of game development to the average consumer. So now it's harder to develop mega-big budget games and to earn the revenue needed to pay for them.
***If you want me to make excuses for Microsoft's bad decisions you're not going to get that or just agree with people who are doing that, it's not going to happen, nor are you going to convert me into thinking xbox "needs to exist". ***
No one is asking you to make excuses for Microsoft's bad decisions nor is anyone asking you to convert to anything.
***Ya know what, maybe "Microsoft bad".... maybe their decisions ARE having a negative effect on the industry, and instead of deflecting from their actual actions and making excuses for them we stand up and say "no" "Microsoft is hurting the industry" ***
Literally no one here is doing this. They're literally discussing how Microsoft's decisions have hurt the industry. Except you. You're rambling about why people aren't complaining about Microsoft when people are in fact complaining about Microsoft.
*** And the one thing you're right about is that I can't go back in time, but I CAN speak up and try to keep it from happening again... ***
Then perhaps actually add something to the conversation other than calling people shills when people are complaining about the decisions and repercussions of Microsoft's actions.
Christopher, you're fighting a block wall here - Ein will continue twisting and contorting any remark to fit his self-created narrative.
"Then perhaps actually add something to the conversation other than calling people shills when people are complaining about the decisions and repercussions of Microsoft's actions."
Cristopher, in no way is the author of this article complaining, they are explaining what happened it's literally the title. They never once say that Microsoft shouldn't have bought Zenimax or Activision or that Game Pass was a bad idea to begin with. They think the problem with Game Pass is that it didn't grow fast enough, not that it was a bad idea from the get go.
BTW this is his job title.
"Public Relations and Communications Leader"
What do you think a Public Relations and Communications Leader does to make money?
Edit: I have read a dozen of these articles that just started coming out in the last 24 hours that are trying to shift the conversation away from blaming Microsoft, the shift here and in several other articles is trying to say it just didn't gain subscribers fast enough, not that it was a bad idea to begin with that was doomed to fail or placing the blame on anyone.
It was all just an unforeseeable outcome, no one should be held responsible it was just a billion dollar oopsie that's costing thousands of people their jobs and has caused a downturn in the entire industries sustainability.
Oopsie!
It's greed. MS has the IP's it wants now it's dumping the studios that it's raided, MS will still make money from Tango's games unlike the people that made them. If anyone follows MS outside of gaming you'll see this is what they do, buy companies take what they want consolidate some of the workforce and shut them down. I don't know why people are acting so surprised when this is Microsoft being Microsoft.
MS is a three trillion dollar company, if it enters a market it has no need to compete, they take what they want and with the financial influence it can bypass laws that are meant to protect the consumer and the workforce. Just look at how they are cornering the AI market right now with buyups and investments.
Fallout 4/Dishonored 2/Rage 2/Elder Scrolls 6/Wolfenstein 2
If Fallout 4 is not announced at E3. I will rage.
Dishonored 2
and hopefully Rage 2, the first was underrated
Fallout 4 is not gonna happen but if it does, where can I pre-order? TES6 is due but I'm still thinking they'll give that MMO abomination a go and not do another until 2017. But I can wait; all the core TES games have been great to play aside from Oblivion.
We will most likely get Dishonored 2. Maybe a Dishonored that let's you be a murderer or do fun things without it giving you a bad ending? (I get the point of Dishonored really but if you had any fun you'd get a bad ending) Not to mention some of the right choices were far from right. Like basically giving somebody a sex slave rather than killing her.
Doom
Thats the only game that we KNOW is being actively worked on, and the only one that we have actually seen anything about.