A year into the PS4 vs Xbox One debate, it's time to look past the consoles and at the larger issue. And Microsoft has the advantage.
thanks this awesome
So much wrong with this artice I don't eve know where to begin
I do. At the beginning: "It’s time for video game fanboys to stop pretending to be business people." Proceeds to rehash the same tired "Sony's going under" argument that fanboys have been hoping will give them a default win in the console war, for at least two gens now.
While also ignoring the fact that every division they have is actually doing better than they were at this time last year, despite them still having operating income losses. Even their mobile division has better sales vs. last year, and that is the division that is losing them the most money right now.
Microsoft operates way, way in the green, and Sony operates significantly in the red, it isn't exactly new news, it has been known for a while. the PS4 vs Xbox One doesn't need to be in this articles title though, "Sony is in trouble, not Microsoft" would have been a better title. At least Sony has the PlayStation brand they can sell off before the ship sinks, I could see Amazon or Facebook buying it.
Yes, they do need to stop pretending being business people. He can't even get his numbers straight. He doesn't even know the difference between revenues, gross profit and ACTUAL net profit. Net profit is how much the company makes after they subtract the operative cost. Huge fail on the article. BTW: Total Xbox console sales were 2.4 million, growing 102%, and Xbox One launched in 28 new markets. http://www.microsoft.com/in... Taking from the same link provided in the article. So you can't say it's not in most countries anymore, it ain't selling all that well. Taking from Total Xbox sales meaning Xbox One and Xbox 360. I don't know what the author was thinking of accomplishing here beside looking dumb, but whatever.
@XBSkull Sony can spin-off the PlayStation brand as an independent company and it would be successful. If anything, it's PlayStation that is keeping Sony afloat. I've talked how Xbox would be better off as a spin-off from Microsoft, but so would PlayStation be in a better position.
This is a stupid argument. By this article's logic, an Xbox that sold only 12 systems wouldn't be in any trouble whatsoever if Microsoft was still making profit. Trying to compare two gigantic corporations as a whole as a means of discussing the health of their individual products is idiotic.
i don't know if the article is wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Truth however is that the evidence that we are seeing isn't really supporting the prediction however, that could easily change. This particular price drop where the Xbox is priced lower than PS4 for the first time will be very very telling in terms of Microsoft's fortunes this generation. However, Sony remains in the enviable position of being able to respond to Microsofts price drop to remain competitive. For the longest we have been hearing how Xbox has the better games the better cloud the better internet bla bla bla but somehow nothing has changed for them. Now they have the lower price but eventually what matters is that will gamers perceive the Xbox one as representing greater value.
It's definitely written by a fanboy... No mention of how much Microsoft is losing because of freebies, discounts and pricing the console cheaper within the first year.
Introducing the new Xbox One #pleasebuyme
@LeCreuset, You nailed it. There is so much hypocrisy in the statement you listed: "It’s time for video game fanboys to stop pretending to be business people." Does this person at dailygame.com not see the irony in their writing this line? Are they suddenly businessmen?
First of all, the guy writing this article IS pretending to know business, its obvious he isn't. However, and Im not a business expert either, but sony losses are not a real problem for playstation brand. Sony corp is divided for a good reason... if something doesnt work, the close/sell it, like VAIO division. And ultimately, if all divisions end to be a mess, the can be a game company... just like nintendo, and still would be in a good consumer position. Hope they can make things work. Ive always liked sony products in general since my firs walkman, they are top quiality, expensive, but the are woth the spend.
The only thing that's massively wrong is 'Microsoft winning the long-term war'. The Xbox One might be a bit like the PS3 was to Sony- sales figures up to half that of the previous generation (alhough I think it'll be more like two thirds instead) but also a fight back to popularity again through being humbler, more generous and even potentially having more exclusives than the competition (not including Nintendo). Microsoft already kind of won a war - all the Xbox Live subscriptions going right back to 2001 raking in lots of money without much to the player in terms of free games in return. Microsoft deserved for this to be a rougher ride this time. Their Xbox 360 strategy had become loose, a mix of the casual and the die hard Microsoft fan just like Nintendo pulled with the Wii- plus with RROD. It seems that players sometimes think 'Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me'.
Well I can begin with saying there is nothing wrong with this article. It is an opinion piece. By definition it is an opinion based on accurate facts. Sony is losing money even if they are not losing as much money as before. Microsoft is making money and has billions on hand in ready cash to make more money. The whole - which console is better because 1 console or the other has better games or is more powerful is pointless since it is the company that has to win to stay in business NOT necessarily the PS4 or XB1. The PS4 helps Sony stay in business, but this is a business where Sony will not be able to make a real profit for years no matter whether they tell you they make profit off of each PS4 sale. That only relates to hardware not the people who put it together or the marketing or sales costs or the shipping, etc.
UltimateMaster You're numbers are also being reported in a way that is off. The Xbox (both One and 360) sold 2.3 million units that quarter. Not the entire year. So the actual to date numbers will be much higher. It will do fine in the long run just like Sony did fine in the long run up against the 360. And as with the 360 and PS3, in two to three years I'm betting we will have very different consoles than the ones we originally thought we were buying due to more efficient use of the hardware and better software technology (example: Who remembers the blades on 360?). So right now, it's not really anyone's victory, although victory is a stupid concept in the "console war." Who knows what could happen. But if I had to make an educated guess, I would say that neither is going to go away and that both companies are going to keep doing dumb and awesome things.
While Sony basks in high PS4 sales results, the number of must-have exclusives Sony’s negotiated is surprisingly small considering the console’s "13-million-plus install base. Furthermore, Sony suffered a massive $806 million loss during the previous quarter. And that was lower than investors had initially feared. By comparison, Microsoft announced revenue of $23.20 billion in Q3. Those revenue results have a direct relationship to video games, and it’s foolish to think otherwise." Of course the author "conveniently" failed to mention a few things: 1.The PlayStation Division is more profitable than the Xbox Division 2.Sony's losses are a direct result of selling off it's computer division and restructuring it's electronics division 3.Sony is not in trouble since it has 149 billion dollars in assets 4."According to a recent SEC report, Microsoft's Xbox division revenue is now up to $1.7B annually, because of the Xbox One, but its costs are up to $2.1B, also because of the Xbox One. That’s yielded a collection of startled headlines about how Microsoft has dropped the ball with their new console by losing $400M already." http://www.forbes.com/sites... 5. "Buoyed by strong sales of the latest PlayStation 4 and the rollout of games and content for its network services, Sony Computer Entertainment CEO Andrew House hopes he can again raise the division's profit forecast for the year to end-March. Sony pushed up that forecast in July to 25 billion yen ($230 million) from 20 billion yen." http://www.reuters.com/arti... 6.(These figures is from 08/12/2014) "We just announced that the PlayStation 4 has sold through more than 10 million units worldwide –- and more than 30 million PS4 games have been sold –- since its launch less than nine months ago." (So using the current numbers as a guide, 13.5 million consoles/More than 35 million games sold) http://blog.us.playstation.... 7. No one knows exactly how many Xbox One consoles have been sold. No one knows how many Xbox One games have been sold. Microsoft hasn't released any numbers at all. What's with all the secrecy? Are the numbers that bad when comparing them to the PS4? 8. Microsoft is now losing money on each Xbox One that it sells Yes Sony has it's troubles, but they are far from going bankrupt. On the other hand, if sales of the Xbox One don't pick up, Microsoft is going to have a gaming problem on it's hands.
The XB1 sales aren't low. You've got caught up in the Sony fanboy talk that states "if xb1 sales are lowER than the ps4's, then the xb1 is a disaster". It is fact that the xb1 sales have been doing extremely well.
The headline reads Sony is in trouble not microsoft. We do know that the Xboxone division is loosing money, but as he mentioned, Sony has bigger sales and less exclusives in proportion to sales and exclusives on Xbox one. And I do feel like Sony just wants to do nothing because they feel like they dont need to do anything. They might think that they don't have to do anything because they are selling well as it is. Let's see, share play can be turned off by developers when Sony first said they couldn't, Driveclub was a launch dessaster, given its argumentative, the UI and its updates are very shaky. MS can not get away with any of that, we know that. What do we hear in return? I get more free games and I get 1080p. Yes, I feel like Sony thinks that they have to do nothing, because they are sony and they will sell anyway. And they won't spend any money because the other divisions are loosing money. That is what I take from the read.
Ugh, you are seeing what you want to see. Microsoft didn't lose 400 million, if you look at their financial statement the made 900 million in the division. The higher costs they incurred cost them 400 million which took the number from 1.3 billion to 900 million. You are separating revenue generated by platform instead of looking at Xbox as a whole. The Playstation is not more profitable either and has very little relevance to Sony's bottom line. Only gamers thing Playstation is Sony's main revenue source. The reality is gaming has the least profit margin within both companies. Sony makes the bulk of their money within their financial division which is credit and insurance. Camera's have a very good profit margin too. Their movie business is up and down. The cost of revenue for Playstation is very high. What fans easily forget is Sony incurs a loss with every one of the 13 million PS4's they sell. Software and services need to make up the loss.
You got one small detail wrong.... when the massive loss was not as big as originally feared, you forgot to mention that what was ORIGINALLY feared was actually a lot, lot LOWER than they originally said and suddenly with barely a few weeks before revealing results they raised their losses projections massively so that when the huge loss came out, it then looked to be "lower" than they feared! In other words, its the same as saying "I think we are aiming to cut our losses and only lose £10!" and then a week before results saying "Actually, we think we will lose about £1,000!!!" then announcing the results as "Well, we only lost £980 so its not as bad as we feared after all, so lets all relax and not panic!" The actual fact is that the tactic has conned casual media and gamers who will trumpet it as a turning point, but for the investors who know their business, its just a cheap trick to plaster over a major problem and prop up the business for another 3 months.
@ps4andxb1, they sold more or less than 2 million consoles in a 6 month period. That includes launching in 30 more countries and yes China too, that is extremely low. http://cdn.arstechnica.net/...
Dont be silly
Sony sell PS4 at a loss MS makes a small amount on each X1 you are deluded and your links are BS,Sony went from 168 billion to around 16 billion and they are in serious trouble,the Xbox division is worth more than Sony alltogether,MS made more in 3 months than Sony are worth around 20 + billion,you keep living with your head up your arse but deal with it MS>Sony it's not even close pal
Only on this site would people agree with your deluded bullshit
@WilDRangeRfc Sony doesn't sell the PS4 at a loss. They're making profits from it and they can also afford to match a price drop from microsoft if they need to. However they don't need to, the PS4 fly off the shelves and despite that price drop from Microsoft, the PS4 is still gonna win November and December.
"But more than likely it’s an opportunistic and proactive decision to win the “marathon” as Microsoft has called it rather than “the sprint.” - Newflash the marathon is over XB1 is never going to catch up in WW sales, it's a smaller brand than PS4 and PS4 already outsells it in almost every country both are in. "Those revenue results have a direct relationship to video games, and it’s foolish to think otherwise." - Really now. Oh you're just trying to push an agenda here. Please how many years in a row have the be losing money and the PS is still fine. "In addition, Sony’s nabbed some high-profile exclusives, most notably timed exclusivity on some Destiny DLC. Though Destiny itself hasn’t been the mega hit Sony (and Activision) had hoped it would be, the agreement still has political clout. And yet over the long term, none of that may matter. Microsoft is frankly in a better position" - Looool Based on what exactly? How has the mountains of cash helped MS for three generations. Hint: not so much they have never won one yet and have already lost the current one in terms of WW sales. "While Sony basks in high PS4 sales results, the number of must-have exclusives Sony’s negotiated is surprisingly small considering the console’s 13-million-plus install base" - What is install base got to with the release of exclusives. Games take about 3 years to make they are not going to suddenly take least to make because install base is increasing at a high rate. This opinion piece is just full of so much wrong and doesn't hide it's agenda for flamebait well.
MS money also hasn't helped the surface be the number one tablet, or bing the number one search engine, or the zune the number one MP3 player, or windows phones...
If Destiny wasn't a mega hit - given the 5 N4G trolls might rip it apart vs. the millions who actually bought the game - then I don't know what was. It is the biggest selling new franchise this year. And DC was a disaster, right? Despite the fact it probably sold 2x-3x of FH2 (counting digital sales). Yet again, a handful of N4G trolls want to make us believe otherwise.
Fanboys care about being number one in sales. Companies care about running a profitable business. Investors care about getting a return on their investment. Surface is not the number one selling tablet. Xbox One is not the number one selling console. Both are housed within the same division at Microsoft and the division is making a profit.
Small amount of exclusives... two words...naughty and dog Typical xbox comment: They are so overhyped. My comment everytime: Well you say that because you dont have them. With studios like naughty dog and other 1st party studios sony has. Xbox has crap and wont compete once sonys studios starts generating titles.
If you're going to troll, at least get your English right.
Lol, Sony in trouble... This author must be drinking from that spiked koolaid again. And here comes those armchair analysts in N4G again....
If Sony isn't in trouble, what do you call losing money annually and having your stock reduced to junk status? Sony has been in trouble since 2008 selling off assets to keep even more investors from bailing. They now rent space in the building that houses their HQ instead of owning it. If the company is losing money, where do you think profit from all their divisions go? How will Sony upgrade PSN servers if they struggle to pay the electric bill? The companies overall health has a direct and very significant impact on each division within it.
@Death Well, will all know that as whole MS id doing better than Sony but "Console" is only a part of their total business. MS accumulated huge cash reserves to the fact that for very long time had virtually a monopoly in regards to PC/OS and Office, but now outlook is changing. Growth of Apple, sales of PCs down every year cut significantly into MS profits. Governments and companies,schools switching from both Windows and Office do alternative choices (f.e. China, Holland and even branches of US Government). In their new vestures (i.e. cloud and phone/tablet) MS no longer has MONOPOLY, they have to compete (Goggle, Apple, Amazon, Oracle Rackspace .....). The IT world is changing. The worst part is when author says "MS has money". What kind of statement is that. Maybe when you 15 you think that gaming is most important thing in MS business vision and they will put billion after billion into console to make kids happy. MS sign 5B/5Y deal with NFL to promote tablet and XBOX brand. They spent more than 1B (unplanned) at XBO launch last year, 2B for MineCraft. If these investments wont bring profit what do you think investors gonna say? After all MS is publicly traded company and they have obligations towards investors. They did not get rich by mindlessly spending money because if they do, eventually, they you will run out the money to spend. Gaming is a business for both MS and Sony and they will be in gaming as long they see light at the end of the tunnel(profit), and not because somebody says "they have money".
BX81 - Sony is not losing money as a whole. Please stop spreading that crap around. There are divisions that are doing well, while some have their own set of issues.
Yes, they are. Do some damned research.
Uh yes Sony as a whole is losing money. What are you smoking? Their gaming division is not losing money. There's nothing to worry about.
Sony’s in Trouble, Not Microsoft. Xbox's in Trouble, Not Playstation. Ill be honest - I never cared for Sony, but Im pretty certain, no matter what happens with it, Playstation will be fine.
Title is stupid here that is microsoft vs sony not xbox one vs ps4
This guy was complaining about everyone fighting over what is what but he is literally doing it in his article. Playstation is no where near in trouble. And whether they drop the price on their consoles are not is up to them. You want us to stop pretending to be businessmen for a second? Well You brought up all this marketing crap and I dont see any evidence that you really are one. They always do a price drop around the holiday season so more people buy. Xbox has to drop because it basically has too, They arent selling, there is no demand for them. PS doesnt have to I can see sony lowering the price because it happens all the time, its cheaper now to make, and to keep the ball rolling stay on top. But they honestly dont have to because there is a demand for it. Why is there a demand for it? because it is overall a better system for gaming. Every game runs better on PS4. The Support is great and Plus is way better then live. Which last generation thats all fanboys were talking about was xbox was better because of live. Now you brought up EA Access. You get to play every EA games for a monthly sum. If you ever heard of Playstation Now, it is a monthly service you can get that plays EVERY SINGLE GAME FROM EVERY SINGLE PLAYSTATION. I dont understand the hype of this EA access when PS Now comes ill ill be playing Battlefield or any other EA game, or ANY other game I want. PS is fine, and they can do whatever they want as long as they continue to still do what they are doing
"Playstation is no where near in trouble" He wasn't saying that Playstation was in trouble, he was saying that Sony is in trouble, there is a difference. Although, if Sony continues to have huge losses like they've been having over the past 5 years, then Playstation will be in trouble, or Sony will spin off the business to allow it to be profitable on it's own.
This title is such flamebait. Can't say PS4 vs XB1: Sony's in trouble because it's talking about 2 completely different things! >_<
Don't trust any site that doesn't allow responses to their articles. Starts off calling out fanboys and by the end of the article sounds like one himself. Slanted comparisons and miss information.
I'm going to make an analogy: This PS4 vs Xbox One war is like the initial Blitzkrieg.
@Norhavic are-you-SERIOUS!!!!!! nothing-but-flamebait. if-you-notice-in-another-arti cle-title-"Microsoft-in-lo st-cause-with-console" which-one-will-you-be-gullibl e-for??? neither-is-true-or-solid-fact s. editors-LOVE-a-sucker-like-yo u. spacebar-broke.........
Not a particularly well worded article, but I agree with it for the most part. Sony as a whole is trying to fight their way back to profiability with an $806 Million loss last quarter, while Microsoft is pulling in $4-$6 Billion in net income every quarter. Microsoft just has more financial resources available, and they also have Windows OS, which is used globally. If they ever manage to leverage the user base of Windows PCs, then they will reach heights that Sony could only dream of. Sony needs to think bigger, beyond their traditional console business. A smart decision would be to use GaiKai on open platforms, as it was original intended, to attract users from around the world on PC and Mac. Since Sony is one of the largest music publishers in the world, another smart decision would be to have an online store similar to iTunes, where they could sell music by way of MP3 downloads, and similar to Steam, where they could sell video games downloads. By sticking with their own hardware, they are severely restricting themselves.
@ At ashcroft.. It is not you're ass its your ass. Maybe you should read a book?? Up you're ass would be up you are ass. Funny stuff on n4g.
He said your my idol... it's you're my idol. Clearly you don't know who I was responding to and you made a mistake. If you're gonna call someone out, make sure you know who that person was. Otherwise, you're the one that looks like the ass.
Yep,. guess that was my bad. LOL
It's actually my bad, I should have at least put in a mention as to who I was replying to...it's all good. I know when to use your and you're... it really bugs me when some don't. Being a grammar Nazi is hard work man.
The only major concern for Sony as a whole is the fact that even though the Playstation 4 is extremely successful, the company is still losing money each and every year. Too many other divisions aren't performing as well as they would hope.
+ DriveClub still doesn't work. That's gotta top the agenda at the board meetings.
I'm pretty sure the profitability of the company as a whole is more paramount than one specific game not working properly. but yes, Driveclub still needs to be fixed too..
if you are still saying that DC is not working, you clearly don't play it. so shut up!
I'm just messing about. Bit of the old "topical humour". It'll only come up in a board meeting if someone on the board has been trying to connect :) @Badz Come on now, you can't just grin and lie about things that are there for all to see. I played DriveClub yesterday, and it was connected for about half of my session.
Ah forget I said anything. It was just a joke, I wasn't trying to aggrevate.
Driveclub is a hell of a lot better than it was but the online still isn't reliable so definitely still work to do, having said that as a game it's a lot of fun, been playing around with the Atom today, gets knocked all over the place but it's acceleration is amazing, people seem like they are standing still as I zoomed past them. The down side it is one squirly mother to control.
dont forget the rules of driveclub...never talk about driveclub
*unless you have something nice to say
No jokes, Volkama, only srs bsnss here. Clearly people here are too mature for that lark.
Apparently Driveclub is an open wound, huh? Lol at the dishing but not bring able to take it on this site.
That is my worry for Sony and even though the PS4 is doing well at the moment it only takes a few mess-ups and they could be in trouble on the gaming front too. Look at the PSV for example. Great device but they made all the wrong moves with it and Nintendo took advantage of it. Then you look at the PS4 and the last few weeks it has taken a hit with DriveClub and the 2.0 having issues which could have an impact on the brand. Im not saying the PS4 is just going to fall off the edge of the earth as I do think the PS4 will be the best selling console this gen but I am worried for Sony as a company as they just seem to be making the wrong moves as a company at the moment. Look at the TV's they are pushing 4K yet none of the big broadcasters have any 4K channels and we are yet to put all of them in HD and they are also not producing any TV's that can battle with the lower end of the market TV's Samsung and LG make. Sony's Phones are great devices my brother has the Z1 and loves it but making a new flag ship phone every 6 months is not a good thing and to announce a new phone not long after the last one was announced is never a good move. I really like Sony products but they are making a rod for their own back and I hope they can turn things around but the next few years will be an interesting one for them.
Somewhere in 2012... "The only major concern for Sony as a whole is the fact that even though the Playstation 3 is extremely successful, the company is still losing money each and every year. Too many other divisions aren't performing as well as they would hope." Nothing in your statement stopped The Last of Us, Demon's Souls, Ni No Kuni, and countless others from being enjoyed. Why people worry about the finances of a corporation...I just don't get. Put that energy into, oh I don't know, A GAME. You think ANYONE at PlayStation is huddled at the water cooler saying: "The only major concern for Neonridr as a whole is the fact that even though the avatar is very cool, the look is still blurry. Too many other comments aren't performing as well as they would hope." Your welcome. EDIT: That's exactly why the PS4 and Morpheus exist, right? Rock on if you want to grasp at regurgitated straws...do you. It's clear you'll say the exact same thing when the PS5 has sold double digit millions too. and it was a rewording, not an analogy. Sorry.
ummmmmmm...... ?????????? If a company continually loses money each and every year guess what inevitably happens - they go out of business. Simple fact of life. Sony doesn't build products and provide services for the mere return of hopes and dreams. Money is their goal. And as a whole they aren't making any at the moment. and your analogy was terrible, sorry.
Some of us make it our business to care because we have investments in these devices and services. Consider this analogy since I really don't see the point you made with yours: Let's assume you have Amazon Prime, which gives you access to a number of services, including Amazon Music. Now Amazon Music let's you download select songs, albums, and playlists, free with your membership. Once your membership lapses, you lose said content. What do you think would happen if Amazon went out of business? Very high probability you would lose all of your content, right? What about the free kindle books? Their cloud services? Considering I love Amazon and their services, sounds to me like I should very much hope they stay afloat. Like Amazon, I care about the state of Sony's finances because I'd like to protect my investments. I own every PlayStation in existence, 3 of which are still supported with PlayStation Plus which, if Sony goes under, I lose access to a LOT of games. Not to mention games that are multiplayer only won't even work anymore. They won't exist to support updates, patches, etc. If you have investments in a company that are ongoing, you should totally concern yourself with a company's finances.
@Neonridr You do know that Sony is more than a company right? They are even more than a corporation...they are a conglomerate. Sony started as an electronics company, but has grown and diversified into so many markets it isn't funny. Their music, movie, and gaming divisions could float them for decades. Sony Pictures is one of the "Big Six" studios and from time to time has had the largest share of the movie industry at around 20% of that market (we are talking BILLIONS in just the movie industry alone). Hell, Sony has their own bank and investment firm in Japan ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... ). List of Sony owned Subsidiaries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Sony has become big enough in Japan and worldwide that if they were to fail it would cause such large waves in the international economy that it would have detrimental effects far beyond just "some company" failing. Much like the biggest American car companies, if Sony did get into irrecoverable financial trouble they would end up getting government bail-outs to prevent an economic crisis. Fact is, they are not in that position as they have enough subsidiaries that are doing fine or are wildly profitable to make up for the short comings of their TV and Phone divisions.
@Gamespawn - yes, but their Electronics division is bleeding money left right and center. Another 1.2 billion dollar loss as of the last quarterly report. It's not like Sony Pictures helps pay for the Electronics company. Even though they carry the same name, they are two completely different entities. If one department continually loses money to the parent company, they aren't just going to be like "It's ok, the other divisions will help keep this one afloat so we will just let it continue to bleed away our profit margins". That would be the worst business strategy in the world.
I have to wonder if you will even notice when Sony goes out of business.