Witcher 3's lead engine programmer Balazs Torok on DirectX 12's impact on PC and Xbox One's performance.
Oh boy. I'll see a lot of crushed dreams here.
Reading the comments from this http://n4g.com/news/1488572... article and seeing this article Today this Comment section is gonna get Crazy http://www.reactiongifs.com...
Even the whole presentation on dx12 was saying benefit is mostly for pc. Not x1. Yet fanboys just blew it up. This aint magic sauce and wont reduce the gap. X1 fans needs to accept power gap and just live with it.
To get the quality of visuals in the Witcher 3, it is understandable that they may not want to go 1080p. They are pushing those triangles. There really is no point in 1080p on Xbox One if it reduces the level of detail. I think developers will make the right decision.
The truth is both camps need a rest form all this debating and shoving it to the 'other side' all the time. Its time to dance to the song being played. The song being the xb1 is not going to reach ps4 level graphics fidelity. What needs to be done, imo, is to use the dx update to focus on 900p from here on and simply push the console's capabilities on the resolution it seems 'happy' to operate at. I mean look at the games released on the ps3 at 720p and lower! The xb1 can still have amazing looking games just not at ps4's level. The sooner we realize this the better. I just wish the ps4 wasn't intentionally being held back. I can only imagine what games like the witcher or The division would look like if their devs didn't have to hold back.
I always said the best compromise is at the intersection of detail and resolution. Though, texture detail is sure hampered by lower resolution, so we'll see just how well they pull it off.
@UltraNova I know the feels. The PC community has to deal with both consoles holding back graphics and physics, with the focus being on the middling sub mid-range settings of the PS4. Thankfully, there are scalable engines out which can utilize the PC to it's fullest potential. Too bad the PS4 could not have been more powerful and closer to what a mid-range gaming PC could produce. #failedconsoleports
@Unspoken I know what you mean, I do have a gaming rig with an OC 290x but I still prefer console gaming (convenience and having friends over beats any PC set up any day in my book). At this point I have my PC doing more movie encoding and photoshop work than games. I will buy the AAA PC game sure but only to see what my 450 euros worth of gpu muscle can do... But yeah I really wish Sony and MS released high mid-range level consoles just so they could stick it to PC enthusiast like us subsequently allowing devs to make better looking games that can actually make a good gpu break a sweat.
How come? That Phil Spencer dx12 article already calmed down the dx12 hype.
[email protected] Sad thing is most of you guys don't even know what directx12 does. Its an API not a resolution fixer. Its predominately going to be improving rendering of textures and graphics and helping out with CPU utilization. Phil Spencer never calmed down directx12 talk It will help developers on XBOX One. It’s not going to be a massive change but will unlock more capability for devs. Massive change, its an API not hardware. You can only get a massive change from hardware. More capability is what you should be looking out for. Directx12 will improve frame rate and graphics. Resolution is a non starter with directx12 so it was never a game changer for that.
@KNWS I disagree with the notion that you only get a massive change through hardware alone, of course it's true more powerful hardware can be and usually is better but evolving API's plus developers understanding the hardware over time can bring substantial changes to games, just check both the PS3 and the 360 at the beginning of their generation to what is being produced on them to this day if that isn't a massive change then I don't know what is. Console baby steps pal, both the PS4 and the Xbox One will indubitably evolve with developer know how.
No source and a confusing quote posted with Gamingbolt's spin. I have no idea what the dev is talking about. Sounds more like the dev is talking about DX12 won't magically make current(already released) games 1080p if devs chose to patch after DX12 comes out. I do know More anti Xbox articles are being written and posted after the positive hype XB1 has been getting lately. Phil Spencer said DX12 won't be a massive change. Do you people know the meaning of massive? The context of this statement was purposely made fuzzy for hits and the site's pro Sony agenda. DX12 isn't even finished and it has many features I doubt anybody can truly say what it can't and can do for new games made to use it(and is why talking about already released games makes more sense as the context of the statement) Can somebody post the question or remark the dev is replying to?
@MPOG: no, MPOG, he's saying that DX12 won't be the game changer you're all hoping it's going to be, which was even confirmed by Phil Spencer a few months ago. no source?? really? a CDPR dev is no longer a source anymore? the question is also: do *you* even know what the meaning of "massive" is? hint: it means huge, gigantic, enormous, something that contains a lot of mass, and DX12 will not be any of those things as it pertains to the xbone. it will, however, affect the PC in those ways since it's going to bring PC game development more in line with console development. and give up the sony internet conspiracy, already... there's no "pro-sony agenda" anywhere. you're just jumping to that erroneous conclusion because you're upset that a dev from a prominent studio just confirmed what a lot of people having been saying for months now.
lol... what is this? this is confusing. There is no source! I don't know what it all means. could you repeat the question? This news seems to have hit MPOG so hard they can't tell up from down anymore...
@MPOG Denial is the first step of delusion http://25.media.tumblr.com/...
Because this is mostly a Sony fanBOY site, were the truth is the biggest casualty. Proof is if you say the slightest thing negative about Sony you will get flamed, a crap load of disagrees, lose bubbles.Say how great Sony is everyday and BAM 10 bubbles. They have no interest to the truth they talk to each other and just talk about how great Sony is all day and they don't want to hear any opposing side. Fact is you can't learn like this, they just dwell in their ignorance like fools. Granted I'm jealous happiness is easy for fools because ignorance hides them from reality.
@VagasDawg Its funny, How many more people bought a PS4 over the Xbox one this gen so far? That is your answer. More people with one console, more people talking positively about that console.
@MorePowerOfGreen I know what DX12 can't do is change inferior hardware into high end hardware. Xbone isn't going to change that much with DX12 and those thinking it will will be in for a rude awakening. DX12 is primarily for PC gaming and their architecture. I can't wait for DX12 myself as I'm a primarily a PC gamer. I hope it makes PC gaming much more efficient than it is atm.
Old News, I saw an article from CD Projekt Red talking about this, and how it wouldn't help "Performance". Don't remember where...
Yet another blow to the balls of every xbone only owner. They sure do suffer down there alot. Cloudzzz...dx12...next unicorns and fairies. Good luck with that folks.
You're just a d***. Do you really think everyone with an Xbox one reads this and just immediately feels some sense of loss? Get real.
medman- One glance at your mom is like a blow to the balls..
@Naruto Being an Xbox fan no dreams are crushed I never had a "dream" about this supposed 1080p or none 1080 boosting tech. The only dreams that came true is all the exclusive games that MS has coming for it. Quantum Break looks to impress at Gamescom, and that's the only thing I care for right now. 1080p is the only thing people care about on here.
Not true we care about more than 1080p. But its the principal of Xbox costing more...or now the same is ridiculous. Most people own a 1080p capable TV and it was widely expected for this generation. They also boasted 1080p 60fps in their ads and at the first e3. When the cloud was mentioned...and dx12 was mentioned the talk was it getting on even ground or in some cases surpassing the ps4 . Smh fact of the matter is ms lied and lied and mislead and played with words and lied again. That's why its a big deal....and you Xbox fans say its OK ms lie to us ...my body is ready. Its sad because you brag about how Xbox has more update coming like its a game changer but downplay the resolution and the lies. Smh
@King "and you Xbox fans say its OK ms lie to us ...my body is ready." How does any of this affect me as a guy who plays games? No lets get real for a minute I play games. All that negative perception has nothing to do with me or you but MS. As soon as they do with the games then we have slight little problem. Then it gets personal. I don't go on hear for some popularity contests between the two. Who lied about this who's lying about that so as long it doesn't get too serious it will always remain perceptive and no affect on me or future buyers who want to play X1 exclusive games. I already made the example last gen when MS was touting all these great things about Xbox. The sales, the Kinect, The apps, Halo, Gears selling cray etc. But that mean't nothing to me because I wasn't playing any new AAA exclusives from them or reboots of fan faves I got nothing from them as a gamer. All that gloating is perception. Its a big deal to you it matters to you for whatever reason in the world but not to me. Because I don't play the perception game I play real games. I advise you don't care so much until it starts affecting you as a gamer. In fact you don't have an X1 so your far from MS perceptive problem. EDIT: To the article at hand all the guy is talking about is what DX12 will improve and doesn't necessarily help 1080p but suggested it could help in other areas. Clearing the confusion that's it. There's nothing more to it.
I don't own a x1 because I can't afford to pay for something that has a smaller value than its price. Say what you will but xbox1's main problem is its price.. I bought a wiiu ..its not nearly as powerful as an x1, and Nintendo doesn't act like it either. They aren't spewing secret sauce or saying this many *shipped or Touting 1080p 60fps. The price is where it should be and its controller the gimmik of the wiiu is fully utilized. You say you don't care about rez but you said: http://n4g.com/news/1478526... You comment kinda contradicts you stance. You say you never had a dream but in your own words you" couldn't wait" Your move....owned
@King "I don't own a x1 because I can't afford to pay for something that has a smaller value than its price." That's ok. I respect that everyone's different that's your life have fun with the Wii U. But once again your letting perception get the best of you and not looking at the games. Focusing on the stuff that doesn't affect you as a gamer, or shouldn't anyway. And the fact that it does affect you just means your acting in the realm of what a fanboy would. Finding any excuse not to get the console and complain about stuff that has no real affect on you as a gamer. Your acting like the PS4 is doing something out of this world when compared to X1. Btw as of now the console is the same price PS4 fyi. If you just don't care for the games then that would be a superior and justified reason. Then this debate would be over on my part. "or Touting 1080p 60fps" What are you talking about here? The X1 is capable of those things but you just said "we" care more than 1080p you should be speaking for yourself not others if not then you just proven all PS fans (and certain fanboys) think alike. Besides 1080p what else do you care about? Because you just said that's not all you care about but in your statement you said MS is "lying" about 1080 60 frames. So that's all you care about then. I said nothing about res in that statement. And that article was about potential graphical boosts not res. Res and graphics aren't the same. I see no ownage anywhere.
Lmao Oh king you're so silly.
[email protected] I don't think you are get the point that Kingthrash360 is trying to make . The point is that Kingthrash360 is trying to make is that the power of a game console is very important to alot of gamers . When Microsoft design the xbox 1 the power or graphics of th console wasn't the emphasis of xbox 1 . No microsoft designed a all in one media hud to compete with Apple not SONY . Microsoft has said on numerous time before PS4 success that xbox 1 wasn't designed to compete with the PS4 . Microsoft on many occasion made public statement that xbox 1 was not designed with a emphasis on graphics or power . Now that microsoft is seeing that a lack of power and graphics are hurting the xbox 1 in sales or and alot of gamers are choosing PS4 because it's a more powerful game consoles with higher frame rates and higher resolutions . Now microsoft is doing everything to portray xbox 1 more powerful than it's or trying to portray xbox 1 to be as powerful as PS4. Microsoft has continuously feeding xbonefanboys and gamers nonsense 6X to 10X times more powerful with the POWER OF " DA CLOUD" or new API or DX12. The point that Kingthrash360 is trying to make is that microsoft has continuously lied to gamers and consumers about the abilities of the xbox 1 . You do not understand his point . You are just change the subject to you own intrepidation and your own precision of what you think the point that Kingthrash360 is trying to make . I also disagree with your statement on Fanboys . fanboys are people who have formed at emotionally attachment to a produced , company or a brand and are unable or unwilling to see the problem or mistake that their favorite brand and or company makes . also fanboys are so emotionally attachment to a brand and or company they makes excess for why their favorite brand and or company makes these mistakes and try to convince other of why negative are positive . It's fanboyism when xbonefanboys try to pretend like microsoft has not continuously misrepresented the power of the xbox 1 . I hate that xbonefanboys try to pretend like microsoft did not designed the xbox 1 with gaming as it's main function . No microsoft designed a media hub all in one media center to take on Apple . But it flopped as a media center hub now microsoft want to take a home media hub center and portray it as a powerful gaming first system . just no Xbox One 'does not target the highest-end graphics', says MS engineer http://www.computerandvideo...
@Snuggle I know what point King and you are trying to make. Let me start by saying how cloud and DX12 be a lie if they aren't even out yet. So much for that logic. Everything else you said is just regurgitation of what King said. I see, I know I'm aware of everything. What do you want me to do about it? Complain and cry about it like you do constantly.? How do you want me to react to it tell me how. I'm not disagreeing with what any of you all are saying I agree. I've agreed a loooooong time ago. Everythings a wait and see as well as final proof I get it. I mean damn. I'm not changing the subject all I'm saying is how is all this gonna stop me from playing Sunset Overdrive come this fall. Tell me how? I can only cry and complain about this stuff for so long. You and a whole lot of others complain about something you don't even own. Leave it to the ones who own the console to worry and sweat over not PlayStation fans because that makes no sense. You all have said it over and over and over and over and over ooooover and ooooover and ooooover again. Understand it gets old to the point that IDC. Stop sweatin so much over it, sit down and chill. As a owner I should be affected not you its ok so just relax.
@ Evilsnuggle I love how you take a quote from what you want to hear. "We purposefully did not target the highest-end graphics. We targeted more as a broad entertainment play and did it in an intelligent way." Two years ago the most powerful GPU was a Radeon HD 7970. Today it's not! The above quote is the same. Most of you people are idiots who repeat comments to that do not have context, you picked quotes that fits your agenda, twist facts because they don't fit, you ignore facts. So here is Visual proof of Xbox ones GPU superiority. A special effect used in character modeling, called sub surface scattering and skin translucency. Shown here in a game called RYSE these effects have never been reproduced not one time on any PS4 GAME. Surface scattering and skin translucency. http://s26.postimg.org/6quj... 900p 30FPS note how the light is passed through ears to reveal the red blood cells and light is past through his translucent skin. Also used in Forza motorsports 5. 1080p 60fps. infamous second son: 1080p 30fps http://s26.postimg.org/jsbm... As you can see this affect can not PS4. the order 1886: 800p 30fps http://s26.postimg.org/c0uw... Once again the effects not present. Uncharted 4 http://s26.postimg.org/70oq... The affect once again is not present. Even in driver club or kill zone this graphic effect is not present in any of the games presented for PS4. WHY? The industry is moving to physics-based rendering. I question if the PS4 has the power to do so. XB1 Has already demonstrated this technique in its games. Have you noticed from the latest Assassin's Creed video that they UBsoft was using this same technique (lead system XB1 DEVEKITS). Have you noticed that call of duty advanced warfare is using the same technique (lead system XB1 DEVEKITS). The Division (lead system XB1 DEVEKITS). Doom shown on XB1 first. And you people actually think DX12 isn't doing anything? Like I said idiots.
Marcofdeath, you really spew bullshit! Anyway, i'm not surprised because you're an MisterX follower ( marcberry ). Jyzz, The Order 800p! ROFLMAO!!! And you use the old screenshots. Nice one! Btw. skin translucency ( ears ) in The Order : http://i6.minus.com/iAI8wZn...
@marcofdeath, I'm pretty proud of myself for managing to read all of your post without losing any brain cells! That goes even more so considering I've read multiple comments of yours across several articles that all seem to regurgitate the same nonsensical points. :P First of all the decision to use general subsurface scattering ('SSS') or special skin shaders varies on a per-project basis. I don't quite know why you think it's presence is an indicator of anything hardware related when you choose to compare completely different games to each other?! Oh, and regarding the PS4 we have 'Order 1886' that implements it, and so does 'Destiny'. There are probably others, but I can't recall. This also ignores the fact that it was somewhat possible on the previous generation too if it was deemed worth the effort. Secondly, it sounds like you're trying to talk about 'physicALLY-based rendering'. That's the internationally accepted name across multiple industries. Dig into my comments history if you want explanations of it, but it's more complex that what you seem think it is. It's actually become pretty standard in the last few years, so don't go thinking it's only used on Xbox One games! Also, the lack of SSS doesn't mean "no PBR" - SSS can be performed in a physically accurate way or not depending on the chosen implementation. Here are some console games that have already used, or have adopted, a physically-based model. For brevity I'll only list a few:- The Order 1886, Killzone: Shadowfall, Infamous: SS, Destiny, Far Cry 3, COD: Black Ops 2, COD: Ghosts, COD: AW, Remember Me, Ryse, Watch Dogs, MGS 5, Witcher 3. The list goes on, but any game made on 'UE4' (possibly not 'Fortnight' - see Siggraph presentation), 'CryEngine' 4 (I know it's not actually called '4'), and 'Unity 5' is near enough guaranteed to use it too. DICE are moving 'Frostbite' to PBR too. Carmack has talked about PBR in the past, so expect it in the 'idTech 6'.
Shut your face Xi
Oh boy your lacking knowledge, DX 12 as far I know has only been released to a few major companies, so this guy is only guessing at what it can and cannot do. (Sigh)And how can you not notice that the X1 is now starting to put out games at 1080p? I'll tell you why, you live in a fanBOY fantasy land, were the truth is a mere oasis. The only dream that's being crushed right now is yours.
I dream of 60fps, not 1080p.
not gonna lie, When i game on my PC i tuned everything to get the best visual but never at the cost of smoothness( FPS ) , But on a console with a 60inch TV i will take 1080p over anything.
If dreams are crushed, these people have been living under a rock. Phil Spencer has even said the difference in graphics will be very minimal.
Who really cares I have both consoles and the xbox to me is better right now dead rising forza are bad ass all the games I bought for the ps4 suck killzone boring as shit multiplayer sucks just saying get over it with this 1080 p
No crushed dreams, i got all the new systems, waiting on crazy rig, and to me x1 not getting 1080 p easy is not a big deal. I play good games, matter of fact im playing ps3 n 360 all the time till my new gen systems get games. I have bf4 on ps4 n xb1, ps4 a little sharper. But there both still fun as heck. Point is xb1 is not that far behind, i thought micro would have made a new system with new tech, so they are dealing with those decisions now.
How is it crushed dreams? More triangles are better not worse. In other words DX12 is better to have then not. Doesnt cost PC/360/X1 owners anything. If you have to pay for DX12 then this would be another story. However claiming its a dreams shatter because it doesn't have the benefits of what you think or anyone else thinks doesnt mean its useless. Imagine Ryse if it was using DX12, that game looks fantastic and thats without the 10% GPU bonus or the extra polys and effects with DX12 and also excluding Cloud processing. XB1 doesnt have to have better hardware tgen its competitors, it just has to have good developers behind it. In acouple years time developers will be using all 3 methods. As a PC gamer I am looking forward to DX12 but as for consoles I buy for the games and not the power.
Hmm, not really. Imagine Destiny would run on DX12 with more triangles, it would output the prettier version of Destiny and beat PS4. At the moment they look the same, same textures, same resolution, same fps. Most developers achieve 1080p at the moment, DX12 will be a big improvement in quality of pixels :)
Software can only help hardware so much. Ps4 is more powerfull period. I love my xbone anyway.
*knocks popcorn out of hands* "NO!" *Puts bag of baby carrots in hands* "You're on a diet remember." *Flys away*
I saw that in my head...
I thought popcorn was a low calorie suggested alternative
@traum. It is. Smartfood White Cheddar for the win.
That would depend on how much butter they put on it... too much salt too.
Only air popped with nothing on it is low cal. No grease, or butter. Salt has no calories but it will kill you quicker.
Uh, our bodies need salt (sodium) to function. Only way salt could harm you is if you were eating too much of it.
I guess we have to figure out the next thing that's going to make it more powerful than PS4.
Again with this "more powerful"shit. I haven't seen anyone say that but PS fans, and I laugh every time I see it. It's just so telling about your insecurities. And why does the PS4 forever have to be dragged into every X1 discussion?
Because many xbone fans cling to the next big thing that will help if reach or overtake the PS4 in graphics or fps. First the cloud, then the 10% from kinect, and then DX12. In the case of DX12, it'll basically allow for better ports. Hell, MS has described it as "console-like “closer to the metal” API". And most console API is close to the metal and "console-like"... Turn 10 dev: “We’re excited to see console-style development coming to the PC,” said Tector.
because its the cold hard truth and Im telling you this as a multiconsole owner with a preference for xb1. To me honestly it balances them out had the xb1 been the more powerful console it wouldnt be a competion IMO but its not and you should accept that.
It's N4G man. Be careful with comments like that your very likely to lose bubbles. The only acceptable thing to say in every article are the following: Ps4 is a beast, and makes our lives better...and cures cancer MS is an evil company who only cares about money(apparently differently then every other company) Sony only cares about its fans not money The X1 is doomed and will be off store shelves within a week Etc So now you know what to say here. OT: who cars, honestly if I get 900p upscale this whole gen with a solid frame rate and good draw distance, sign me up. Because the truth is I've played about 6 hours of the last of us and my PS4 controller needs to be plugged in cause it's already dead. That's far more of a travesty than not being 1080.
For the same reason XB360 was dragged into every PS3 discussion is my guess it's how things work in the gaming world.
@ThePope Haha your such a ms fanboy but i'm glad to hear you've played a bit of the last of us and experienced the brilliance, even if you turn it around and say you don't get the big deal (lol even though it is best game of last year by far, and a possible candidate for game of the generation, IMO it is definately the latter) :D Both consoles have brilliant games to come, not many atm but there coming. Everyone should get both consoles, even if your hemeoraging money lol, you should get them a few years down the road if possible. Besides, we all get multiplats like the witcher 3 :) Greatness awaits ALL of us XD
@The Pope, Plugging in a controller with a built in battery after 6hours is more of a travesty than not having 1080P? Lmao! I guess it would be more important if you have a cheap no name TV that only displays 720p. I'm pretty sure everyone else would rather have 1080p.
last of us remastered looks better than most xbone games. xbone is gona struggle with graphics and we all know it,i just wish these articles would stop because there pointless. im a ps4 gamer but i really want MS to sort out the resolution and other graphical issues they have but what makes it worse is when there spouting bull and overhyping bits of code
Not, having 1080p? Apparently on the Witcher. But on Destiny you will. And you will on many games moving forward. If not all. And like Sony fans claim Xbox owners cling to every hope of a more powerful console, Sony fans continue to ignore clear statements that DX12 will make a difference even on Xbox One. He does say it will allow it to push more triangles, though in the past we were told it wouldn't make any difference. Maybe we should just wait and see everything it actually allows more of before we assume it won't make a difference. Sony fans want it not to make a difference more than Xbox fans want it to. I truly don't believe anyone outside of Microsoft really knows everything it will bring.
Agreed times 10. Sure some people have made some wild claims...bit for the most part, MS themselves as well as the majority of the community has been pretty realistic about this Direct x is a big deal in the gaming world, so of course its big news when a new version comes out. And sure it should speed things up a bit for devs and allow them to maybe squeeze a bit more performance out for certain purposes. But really only the PS "fans" getting on these articles to speak for everyone else and out words in your mouth. I say "fan" with quotes because to be a fan of a one company and "root" for them is Crazy. I do have all 3 new systems, luckiky enough. And yes, Xbox divsion may have tried to screw us at the outset..but now there's a pretty reasonable, proven gamer heading up the division, and they are at least working hard to make it better...that's something to root for. MS actually seems to be allowing these guys to cater to gamers and be level with us for a switch. I want things to work well for all consoles. And I I like how the competition works as a sort of checks and balance system. Seriously, do you think PS4 was not influenced by the 360 and xblive? The better these companies do, the more they challenge one another, the more good things come out for us. And I very much want console gaming to survive well past this generation. That can't happen on a one horse race my friends.
@dcbronco You wont see that much 1080p on Xbone... Destiny is a upressed Lastgen game. Stop living in Denial.
strange obviously hasn't ever seen a post from MPOG, truefan, or any of the other mindless bots who post the same crap every time in every article related to PS4 having any sort of power advantage. just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't there.
Because y'all like to drag X1 discussion into PS4 discussions.
@dcbronco I love how you noticed he said that it'll let them draw more triangles, but failed to notice how he says right after that it wont matter because the GPU can handle them anyways, due to it not having enough shaders. As in the 768 shader units housed in the 12 CUs. Nice selective choosing what to see and what not to see there.
"I haven't seen anyone say that but PS fans" You must not look at N4G much then.
I think people should come to the realization that the Xbox1 is just a weaker machine compared to the PS4! Microsoft themselves stated that the Xbox1 was not focused on high-end graphics. Microsoft themselves stated that they wanted a more media based all around machine, in hopes off controlling the living room. It's just that most supporters wanted a gaming console, many already are comfortable about how their living rooms are being controlled.
We HAVE come to that realization, it just keeps being brought up adnauseum to rub it in our faces. The people that need to get over it are Sony fans that relentlessly search for any mention of DX12. Yay! The PS4 is FAR more powerful.Everyone happy now? Good.