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Submitted by Nike 199d ago | news

Devs React to DX 12 Doubling Xbox One GPU Speed Claims; PS4 ICE Programmer: Be Suspicious of Claims

Doubling the speed? Not really, according to some developers. (DirectX 12, Xbox One)

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Mikelarry  +   199d ago
2015 is not far off i am skeptical but would love to see what MS is cooking in their software labs to make such bold claims
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Kayant  +   199d ago | Well said
They never made the claims in reference to XB1. It was the author of the author of that article that did that. MS were talking about PC development when they were talking about those improvements and showing the graphs but yh it will be interesting to see what happens.

Though I honestly don't see the XB1 getting a 2X improvements across the board just because of DX12. Even if the CPU is less bottlenecked than before at the end of the day the GPU can only do so much.
@deathisgamesok

XB1 also has had one for a while - Mono driver --> http://www.gamechup.com/xbo...
ThunderSpark  +   199d ago | Well said
Only people making a huge deal out of this were Xbox One fans who are always looking for the second coming of secret sauce from the clouds. Gamers who have gamed for a very long time know that hardware is the first step to high end gaming, then software. If Ms couldn't get the hardware right, software is not going to drastically change the problem. You can put make up on a pig but beneath all of those updates, the Xbox One is still weaker than the PS4. The sooner Xbox One fans realize that and come to terms with it, the sooner we don't need to fight over every exaggeration of the secret sauce from the clouds. Let the games talk and so far, PS4 games prove the hardware's power and efficiency.
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Septic  +   199d ago
I think this doubling the performance thing is silly.

What I hope, and I think people should be more realistic and not get their heads in the clouds (no pun intended), is that DX makes a marked improvement. Doubling the power just seems fantastical.
Volkama  +   199d ago | Well said
Yes Kayant, I'm glad somebody else noted this.

When MS talked about DX 12 they did mention compatibility with the XBox One. They did also mention potential gains of 50% on CPU efficiency. On a separate slide that had nothing to do with the console.

Gaming Bolt just totally misrepresented the information, and people seem to be reading whatever they want into every vague statement that has come out since.

MS have not even pretended to quantify the advantage this will offer the console. Not so much as a hint that I have seen.
marlinfan10  +   199d ago | Well said
@whathappened,

"only people making a huge deal out of this were xbox one fans"

you say that right before writing a paragraph about the thing lol..from what I've seen, the people that are making the biggest deal about it are the ones trying to disprove it. go to any dx12 article and its comment after comment about how it'll never work
Lukas_Japonicus  +   199d ago
@Volkama

I agree 100%. I remember the article that said DX12 will have potential gains of 50% for CPU efficiency...and then fast forward a few weeks and it has been taken completely the wrong way.

A lot of people who accused others of being "armchair developers" are feeling pretty silly now seeing this come from multiple industry professionals. You don't have to be an engineer, or a developer to doubt software could magically double the power of a piece of hardware.

DX12 will most certainly improve the efficiency of the console for developers, but deep down, did anyone truly believe the X1 would get such ridiculously high performance benefits from it? Seriously? The dude in the article who made that claim even clarified that he didn't mean it literally.
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S2Killinit  +   199d ago | Well said
Except the whole thing is by design. MS knows exactely what they are doing when they spread such rumors as true.
creatchee  +   199d ago | Well said
@whathappened

"Only people making a huge deal out of this were Xbox One fans who are always looking for the second coming of secret sauce from the clouds."

Bull. Look at most of the DX12 articles on this site. Heck - look at just about any article dealing with X1 hardware. The first and most vocal people are those in the Sony camp saying that it is all some sort of fairy tale. Sure, some Xbox fanboys go the MisterX route and start claiming five and ten times performance gains, but for the most part, people who are interested in the console are optimistic about what could come to be. It's the Sony fanboys coming into those articles to push their agenda who continually pick this fight that you speak of.

"The sooner Xbox One fans realize that and come to terms with it, the sooner we don't need to fight over every exaggeration of the secret sauce from the clouds."

Or you could just stop fighting now and enjoy your PS4 without worrying about what is going on with the X1. You've already decided not to buy one, so it won't affect you. Wouldn't your time be better spent enjoying your superior PS4?
ThunderSpark  +   199d ago | Well said
I find it funny how in the previous article Xbox One fans dismissed our comments because they said we were not developers, that we do not know anything about game development. But now that the developers themselves are agreeing with what we stated, those same Xbox fans are still in denial. I feel like our words don't even matter anymore. Xbox fans want to believe what they want to believe and there's no stopping them. Blind faith in their Xbox religion full of clouds and secret sauce. In the end, gamers will be happy about the games, and Xbox fans will still be waiting for secret sauce.
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Volkama  +   199d ago
@Lukas I think you probably can double the efficiency of hardware through software revisions. But the existing software has to offer a pretty bad starting point...

I don't think the current Dx API on the XBox One is single-threaded like Dx11 anyway, so I suspect the primary performance boost afforded by Dx12 will not even apply.

Having said that, I think other improvements that are more specific to the console can make a big difference. I think Xbox owners can look forward to improvements because of work in other areas, and I think the Build presentation on "how to use ESRAM" was more likely to contain the answers.

And of course I think PS4 owners can look forward to big improvements too. As seen previously with every console ever.

@S2Killinit How would quantifiable false expectations of a 50-100% performance increase be in microsoft's interest? It would backfire hard. They aren't so dumb.
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Hercules189  +   199d ago
@whathappened, Intel, AMD and Nvidia all say its a huge deal and do you really think that Microsoft wouldn't make the xboxone without taking advantage of dx12. And the cloud does work, unless you live in some hut, all you need to have is basic $30/mnth internet and you should see the advantages of cloud.
Eonjay  +   199d ago
"Doubling Xbox One GPU Speed" - What speed. The core clock speed of the GPU. To what 1600Mhz... well of course no so I assume they are referring to developing performance. Well, no again because the max performance is 1.31Tflops and thats not doubling. So they must that efficiency is doubled. That I can buy.

@Hercules189

Current PC GPUs will also be DX12 compliant. Were they made with DX12 in mind... or was it the other way around.
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tuglu_pati  +   199d ago
The truth is DX12 still in development. We have to take everything we hear in the internet with a grain of salt even with this developers.

The only thing we can do is wait and see.
MorePowerOfGreen  +   199d ago | Well said
"PS4 ICE Programmer: Be Suspicious of Claims"

Nuff said.

Nvidia, AMD, Intel and other devs etc say different lol. I guess Sony just can't afford for this to be praised much longer so now they damage control. The only thing this Sony damage control is going to do is, set PS4 fanboys in denial.

MSFT is a global company making software for global hardware companies, if these companies are saying DX12 does these things they do! as if some random hating Sony guy working on inferior software is more credible than everybody else like chip makers and devs.

Who does Sony sell ICE to? Does Ice have market outside of gaming and on other platforms where many folks are vouching for it? One random Sony dev not showing a damn thing *vs* hardware companies, software companies and devs either working on DX12 or showing it work.
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Why o why  +   199d ago
Arghh well, its not like most of us didn't share this notion. Obviously, a faction felt compelled to champion any 'game changer' worst thing is, after all of the huffing and puffing the improvements may not even equate to parity. Crazy.

Anyway, I'm sure some will move onto the next one.....recurring pattern.

@less power

Dude, denial about what, owning the most powerful gaming console....... thats like moaning about being rich or having a nine inch hwang... some guys
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Nekroo91  +   199d ago
@Morepowerofgreen read the article. Theres statements from treyarch and other programmers aswell .

How can you be so delusional. Your trying alot to justify your purchase but guess what?! its still weak and it always be
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Charybdis  +   199d ago
Always be sceptic and ask for specifics doubling the gpu power of the x1 doesn't sound reasonable with software. Could they possible double the efficiency of a specific gpu task with direct x12 software maybe, but a doubling of gpu speed seems very unlikely.

Software improvements are possible but certain numbers may simply not be realistic. Same can be said of the previous claim of an ice- programmer. "PS4 surface tiling/detiling on the CPU is ~10-100x faster". in the end both consoles will get better and people will keep on exaggerating the theoretical possibilities instead of real world results.
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Lukas_Japonicus  +   199d ago | Well said
@morepowerofdenial

Just like your buddy lifeisgamesok, you didn't read the article. You read the title and the description and spewed your BS and embarrassed yourself. Congrats.

And LOL at you talking about denial....seriously. Irony at it's finest.

Man, you are going to be so disappointed when DX12 launches and your X1 isn't twice as powerful, i hope you realise that.

Edit: You then edit your comment, including a new paragraph and yet you STILL haven't read the article, lmao!

"as if some random hating Sony guy working on inferior software is more credible than everybody else like chip makers and devs."

Hardware >>> software, don't even try and tell us you believe that it's the other way around. I know you're delusional, but not that delusional. The PS4 is more powerful and will be more powerful after DX12 drops. Accept it.

Edit 2: LMAO! You did it AGAIN! Wow man, seriously, wow. In future, read the damn article, because you just made yourself look like a fool.
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Death  +   199d ago
@WhatHappened,

The Xbox fans waiting for the second coming of secret sauce are out buying and playing games. Look at software sales on both platforms. It looks more like Xbox fans are enjoying their consoles while Playstation fans wait for the next gen in games to arrive.

It also looks like the most vocal ones crying about secret sauce are the insecure Playstation fans that labeled it secret sauce in the first place. Optimization will occur on both consoles and each will "evolve" over time like they always have. If you want to call optimization "secret sauce" and pretend it won't happen, that is on you.

As for Xbox fans coming to terms with the Xbox One being "weaker" than the PS4, they know. The problem that is burning you up from the looks of it is they don't care. I'm pretty sure that is why you keep telling us about it.
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BX81  +   199d ago
@ what happened
Your drunk if you think it was only xb1 fans making a huge deal. It's the trolls from both camps. They constantly need something to bicker over.
Eonjay  +   199d ago
@Charybdis

I completely agree.

I think people misunderstand what Brad Wardell meant. He didn't mean the GPU speed would be doubled. If DX12 is more efficient it can be twice as effective with the same hardware. An API doesn't change the hardware, it only communicates with it. The hardware can only do what its told.

There is a way to literally double the GPU speed but that would probably cause overheating...

Also its not just Sony.

"Treyarch software engineer Dan Olson" also said the claim was not smart to make.
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Why o why  +   199d ago | Well said
'''As for Xbox fans coming to terms with the Xbox One being "weaker" than the PS4, they know. The problem that is burning you up from the looks of it is they don't care. I'm pretty sure that is why you keep telling us about it.'''

Lmao....dont care huh...let me see....like every single power increase article is flocked too with hopeful x1 fans clasping to rhetoric. Oh, yeah, when the facts went againt that said crowd they screamed resolution didn't matter anymore but give any of em a sniff of power increase then BAM,... a whole heap of talk........ with this type of dispute, It ALWAYS takes 2 so please, cut the morality plea....peoples actions hold way more weight. Ms attackers will attack and sony attackers will attack. BOTH will defend vehemently. Thats the n4g standard.

And if anybodys burning up inside I'd almost certainly guess it wasn't those who know they're on top in this regards...
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creatchee  +   199d ago
@death

"As for Xbox fans coming to terms with the Xbox One being "weaker" than the PS4, they know. The problem that is burning you up from the looks of it is they don't care. I'm pretty sure that is why you keep telling us about it."

This. Times a million.

I've never seen a group of people worried so much about experiences that other people are having and trying to downplay them as I do with video game console fanboys.
VforVideogames  +   199d ago
Xbox1 fans this Ps4 fans that.... STFU and enjoy your console of choice, leave this to the ones who don't have a next gen console.
dcbronco  +   199d ago
I don't know why people find it hard to believe that DX12 can make a big difference on the CPU side on Xbox One. We all should know that most of the cores are idle a lot. If DX12 puts them to use on a regular basis,we should see major gains. That's just common sense. Denying that is just fanboy wishing.
pyramidshead  +   199d ago
lifeis and powerofgreen still unable to read full articles I see.

PS4 ICE team dev is probably there just to see what the different side of the coin looks like. The rest are multiplat devs and people who even work for microsoft lol.

Efficient weak hardware is still weak hardware.

If the Xbone can gain this much efficiency than so can the PS4 and that's on top of how mature it already is compared to the bone. ALSO DX12 is slated for holiday 2015, guess we have to wait until late 2016/17 games to see any real difference.

Xbox fanboys have been rubbed the wrong way so much now that that cling to anything even if it's to blindly swallow what anything MS shoots from the PR department.
DarXyde  +   199d ago
@Kayant

THANK YOU! Finally, someone realizes the developers were not talking about XBOX One. The XBOX One will likely receive a great update with DX12 but, no, it's not some kind of God-Mod-mega-hax that will double performance. Spencer put it best, where he suggested it can make a difference like going from PDZ quality to Halo 4 quality. That's realistic. It DID happen and I think it can happen again.

As a side note, I think it's safe to say that, if the XBOX One had its way with the industry (DRM, always-online restrictions), it would be much more powerful than it's given credit for. The Cloud has at least somewhat proven itself and it would have had the benefit of working with every XBOX One game. That with DX12 may have made for very interesting developments. Maybe.

I'm still a pro-Sony gamer, but the XBOX One would likely have been a more formidable machine if it happened the way Microsoft intended. Then again, it may not have had the bright future for games as it appears to now because Mattrick would likely still be there and Spencer would likely have taken a back seat.

Oh well. No use speculating on hypotheticals.
alexkoepp   199d ago | Trolling | show
Ritsujun  +   199d ago
Don't give up, MS!!!!!!!!!
gigoran  +   199d ago
@Hercules189

All you need is a 30 dollar a month Internet connection to get the power of the cloud? Hahahahahahahaha. So a 500 dollar machine just became an extra yearly investment of 300 dollars or more. Are you trying to help or hinder your beloved xbone? If someone must pay that much extra every year just to play the console at its highest power... That's pathetic.
tbone567  +   199d ago
All this talk of Direct X 12 and Cloud. Doesn't matter. The real secret weapon is MS itself. Xbox One is backed by a trillion dollar tech Titan.
ChrisW  +   199d ago
@Whathappened,

"Only people making a huge deal out of this were Xbox One fans"

Nope! It's the Sony camp that jumping around viciously attacking this news because it simply has "XB1" and "2X" in it.

Though yet they seem to fail to understand that DX12 will also benefit the PS4.

Maybe by "2X" or more?!?
DigitalRaptor  +   199d ago
@ Death (and creatchee, somewhat)

All of this stems from the delusionally hopeful that are grasping onto every PR statement, who are trying to convince people the opposite of the truth. It's the PR spin bulls*** these companies try to convince others too that exacerbates the delusions of the fiercely loyal.

You don't care about the power differences? Fine by me, but don't ever try and spin the truth or push any delusions on others, or even support others doing that, or call those who are calling out the bulls***, fanboys, to try and deflect logic.
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n4rc  +   198d ago
Whathappened

Actually it seems the Sony fans love to bring up those points, not Xbox fans..

Like your post... Who the hell said secret sauce or anything like that? Just you, in response to no one..

What people need to come to terms with is enjoying their system and allowing others to do the same.. And not trolling every single article trying to shoot it down
Azzanation  +   198d ago
AMD, NVidia and Intel all say it will double CPU speeds, the X1 has a AMD CPU, just like PCs. Why wouldn't it double CPU speeds if there able to balance each core?

I think the you should wait and see other then claim it false. Because if you disbelieve the DX12 news then your calling AMD, NVidia and Intel liars and they pretty much created the PS4 and X1.
insomnium2  +   198d ago
@death

This is 2006-2008 coming back and slapping every single xbox fanboy (and media outlets with their propaganda) in the face. All those awfully rushed multiplats DID NOT mean that x360 is more powerfull than PS3. Everyone saw the reality of the situation but even then the media and fanboys were crazy with joy.

Karma truly is a bitch for anyone with an agenda.
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dantesparda  +   198d ago
Wow, are all the MS fanboys in denial.

AMD, Intel and Nvidia meant the PC. Not the X1. This should be obvious to anyone with a brain.

MS fanboys are the ones making a big deal out of this, believing all these claims, (most of which really only pertain to the PC not the X1), and Sony fanboys are trying to bring these delusional fanboys back to Earth

You have MS and indepedent devs telling you here and you people are still in denial and thinking that AMD, Intel and Nvidia got your back when they DONT!

And i thought that MS fanboys didnt care about power or res. Now suddenly you all do

It never ends with you people, stay delusional, have fun with that.
Xsilver  +   199d ago | Well said
"Programmer Dean Ashton found it downright hilarious. Either that or life-threatening judging by his response. “2x perf on Xbox One when using DX12? That article nearly made me choke on my cup of tea.”

hmmmmm seems Devs's don't believe it, so where does this leave us?
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lifeisgamesok  +   199d ago
Nvidia, AMD, and Intel believes it along with a developer from Oxide games who made the Star Swarm tech demo

Of course a "Playstation guy" would try to downplay Xbox One improving
Lukas_Japonicus  +   199d ago | Well said
@lifeisgames

Clearly someone didn't read the article, which seems to be a trend amongst Xbox fanboys.

It's not just him saying it. There are many others in that article. Frankly, how anyone actually believed that software could magically make hardware twice as powerful is beyond me.

Face it, people like you (truefan,morepowerofgreen, gozer,xbox fun etc) believed (and probably still do) that DX12 was going to be some secret sauce that would double the X1's power. Even without these industry professionals saying otherwise, it was blatantly apparent to anyone who wasn't deluded that that was impossible.

No one is downplaying improvement, they are doubting such wild and misinformed/misinterpreted claims.

It was like Chinese whispers.....the original comment being "potentially 50% more efficient CPU" turned into....."double the power", "like a whole new graphics card", "suddenly 720p games will run at 1080p". And you guys lapped it up and called other doubters "downplayers".

Man...id rather be a down-player than a mindless follower and accepter of blatant lies.

'whathappened' above me brings up a good point also, how people like you called doubters of those claims "armchair devs" and disregarded their views due to them just being "N4G nobody's", but now actual devs and actual industry professionals are agreeing with us, you still bury your head in the sand and mention AMD, Intel and Nvidia....did it ever occur to you that they we're talking about PC gains?
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Xsilver  +   199d ago | Well said
@lifeisgamesok
"Of course a "Playstation guy" would try to downplay Xbox One improving"

So i Told the Devs to say this :/ so apparently asking were everyone stands on this subject is downplaying the Xone-_-.

"Nvidia, AMD, and Intel believes it along with a developer from Oxide games who made the Star Swarm tech demo "

I thought they were referring to PC when talking about DirectX12 but hey i may be wrong.
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raWfodog  +   199d ago
@ Lukas

Technically, optimized software CAN improve hardware performance but I don't see it doubling the performance in this case. Especially not when other development factors come into play.
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Kayant  +   199d ago
@lifeisgamesok

And what do all three have in common? They are all trying to sell PC hardware. Even with MS's contract with AMD for their hardware AMD still has a business on PC selling their hardware. None of them were talking about the XB1.
Lukas_Japonicus  +   199d ago
@raWfodog

Yeah, i know that, i don't think anyone on either side of the fence doubted that *some* performance gains wouldn't come from DX12, otherwise, what would be the point of including it?
WeedyOne  +   199d ago | Well said
The devs are laughing at this because DX12 was basically a pc announcement! DX12 and Mantle were created to practically emulate what consoles ALREADY DO!. And that is have programming closer to the metal which leads to faster draws for the CPU. You will not even get a performance gain if you arent cpu limited in the first place!

Since XB1 and PS4 already have programming close to the metal, they will not see a huge jump going to DX12 like the PC will.
DeadlyFire  +   199d ago
Just another word for we optimized the code again. This happens all throughout a console gen. No new news really. DX12 likely has some new graphics features over XB1's current set, but its software. It can be patched in. Sony also uses an API built on software as well. They have not stopped optimizing it either.

Either way XB1 has a shorter rope to max out its hardware than PS4. Optimization and new graphical features dropping in here and there along the way for both sides. Every new feature helps along the way, but they all have their limits on these features that are tied to hardware. 1.31 and 12 is smaller than 1.84 and 18 I do believe.
k3rn3ll  +   199d ago
Technically its 3 devs one of which being an SCS engineer. Lets not act like its an overwhelming majority or anything.

Although I am hopeful for it bringing some improvements lets not sit here and act its now stated fact that the update wont bring any improvement because 2 people are skeptical about the percentages given by a third party dev.

The same people claiming people had overblown the possible gains of dx12 are overflowing the scepticism of a couple 3rd party devs who have not had hands on with.new apis
OpieWinston   199d ago | Bad language | show
nypifisel  +   198d ago
It's bullshit honestly. It also would mean that somehow API features are exclusive and static for some and not for others. Gains are to be made but one can not by pass hardware which performance is finite. Both consoles will pretty much share all API features.
BallsEye  +   199d ago
So in shortcut Sony devs talking smack about dx12 update.
Flutterby  +   199d ago
So in shortcut you didn't read the article, when will you guys learn to read the article before jumping the gun and looking stupid?
Blaze929  +   199d ago
"Dunno about DX12/X1 specifically, of course; not my dept."

and with that, all and any reason to care about what this guy has to say flew right out the window. Credentials - he has none.
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Docknoss  +   199d ago
What's this guy know? MS has the best Software engineers in the world.
TH3BR3W  +   199d ago
I read this and had a day dream of windows 8 murdering my family. I mean it was a nightmare before but now windows 8 gives me daymares.

On topic though:

Dx12 should provide some improvements but to think it's a performance doubling program is just dumb especially when the information on what it does is explained on the press announcements.
nypifisel  +   198d ago
And you think Sony uses out of special school drooling fools? Come on, wake up; anything MS can do Sony can do, and wise versa.
Mr Pumblechook  +   199d ago
"Secret sauce!"

"Power of da Cloud!"

"DX12!"
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BlackTar187  +   199d ago
DX12 will improve games and in 3-5 yrs the cloud may help in bigger ways then horrible AI.

Both those things thertically will improve xbox.

Not at what level they do is yet to be seen.

Cloud is real it's just not Xbox buy our console POWER OF THE CLOUD real. It will be someday but i'll be generous and say 3 yrs 1/2 the life of the console. My real opnion is 5 yrs and will be fully implemented on next gen consoles.

But what do i know? Nothing. I have spent the last 4 years of my life learning abotu the cloud and it's advantages inside a company since I work at a company that provides these services. But in the end i don't know enough to make any real solid guesses i can only operate on the little i work with(little i mean allot) for different applicational use then consoles.

I'll say one thing customers have cloud issues all the time but they will iron themselves out like stuff always does.
memots  +   199d ago
Don't forget dat stacked hidden gpu
Back-to-Back  +   199d ago
Well there you have it. Dx12 according to professional engineers is not going to be the "big hope" xboners were hoping for. I must suck realizing you paid more for less when you could of got a ps4.
k3rn3ll  +   199d ago
My xbox one can do a whole he'll of alot that my ps4 can't do. Specifically look at the speed of updates coming out each month adding features compared to speed of ur updates and contents. Dont Chase articles to throw your hate around while some are having meaningful discussion about our console. But i guess the insecure are always gonna be insecure and haters always gonna hate. People like you give gamers a bad rap

Even tho its a typo yes you must suck
rocketpanda  +   199d ago
@K3rn3ll,

Oh the irony! Yet are doing the same thing of accusing Back-to-Back.
Kavorklestein  +   198d ago
People have the right to hope dude. That's like "My Parents are richer than yours, and yours have no hope or chance of accumulating more wealth, and for you to even THINK the things they are trying to do are gonna help, makes you Poor AND Stupid."

Geez, sounds like a bunch of kindergarten bullies who haven't grown up!

I'm not here to say that any of us people REALLY, TRULY, have any clue what performance numbers are gonna be changed, or to what degree DX12 or the cloud can eventually help, but man!
You guys are such assholes.
If they wanna dream, then let em dream!
At least when they are dreaming, they aren't making fun of YOU!
At least when they are dreaming, they are MINDING THEIR OWN DAMN BUSINESS ABOUT THEIR OWN DAMN CONSOLE!!!
It doesn't really matter if they are excited or hopeful, because in all honesty, WE ALL WANT THE BEST FOR ALL OF OUR CONSOLES!

This is the primary disparity between thinking Xbox fans and PS fans are both at the same ratio of trolling. If that's true, then why do we find a 5:1 ratio of people stooping low and taking low blows..?

It's YOU Sony fans who are being the punks, if there was some announcement about the PS4, granted, there might be a few (2 or 3 per 250 comments) Xbots in there being dumb, But the DIFFERENCE- is EVERY SINGLE ARTICLE with xbox news has the MAJORITY of Sony fans sitting around throwing feces and getting hot and bothered!
Like 450 out of 500 comments you'll read are Sony fans being less mature than they realize, and justifying it because they have a stronger console.
Just because the PS4 is better does NOT mean that anybody needs to believe what you jerks believe about DX12 or the cloud.
And if they believe something that ends up being a lie, then it's no skin off your noses!

So let's wait and see, and if it's true that DX12 is a substantial help, then cool beans.

If it's not substantial, then cool beans.

In the mean time, why don't the people who claim to be of a HIGHER-CLASS gaming sect shut the hell up and PROVE it for once?
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GUTZnPAPERCUTZ  +   199d ago
It was CPU NOT GPU so I have no Idea what is going on lol
imt558  +   199d ago
ICE Team programmer has right, Xbone fans.

And few weeks ago ( ICE Team: looks awfully familiar )
:

http://www.dualshockers.com...
MeLoveRamen  +   199d ago
There you go xboys, stop living in fairy tail land and wake up. If it sounds too good to be true you know what that means, there full of it. Straight from some of the top dogs in the industry, so why are you guys so gullible for, i enjoyed the xbox brand for the last decade, in fact the og xbox and 360 were my main console until 2010 when God of War 3 came out so i am not biased. With microsoft dropping support for the 360 and their DRM antics it put a sour taste in my mouth and i learned to question Microsoft about things they do.

Like i said yesterday this is just another empty promise just like titanfall being only possible on the cloud and it doing revolutionary things at E3 then a couples months later you find out they were talking about dedicated servers lol.

BTW didn't every xbox fan give up on resolution and power a couple months ago. If i remember correctly you guys always say that you only care about gameplay and don't care for graphics. Its soooo funny to see you guys jump ship off the I don't care for graphics ss, when Microsoft lies too you.
frankdrebin72  +   199d ago
titanfall is the second game to utilise the cloud,..forza the other,..its just the start so why you all expect great things from the word go boggles my mind.
dx12... seems to be a touchy subject,...most of the comments state.." I dont think so" in regards to the jump it will give the xbox in terms of improvement...notice the "I"..... ..cmon guys.....you have DEVs stating one thing and others that are sceptical,..but it will improve the petformance..make no mistake of that.
sure sony will possible do something,..but upon a bit of reading on line it seems to be the heat output for the xbox one is better controlled..it would seem in some peoples opinions that the reason for the large fan,..and space IS for the use of DX 12..as this will increase the heat produced within the console..now i understand the ps4 is slimmer but any response by sony regarding their software update to match dx12 surely would increae heat as well,..yet it is not designed to cope with this??
maybe its crap i dont know,..but those that have some tech savy surely can explain if such is the dase,..and if so ,..has sony cut their arm off for going with look over performance??
at the end of the day dx will increase performance,..then its over to sony to counter this...but is the machine capable??
so lets say it just improves performance by 5o% ...then. the cloud that is coming increases performance by lets say 20 %....overall thats 70% increae..and the xbox can still cope with all this heat..will the ps4. cope with a 70% iincrease demand on its hardware without adequate cooling???
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jackdaniels  +   199d ago
learn to spell :-)
MeLoveRamen  +   199d ago
Man frankdrebin you are drinking the kool aid aren't you. Your really are blinded by Microsofts pr, matter of fact it is you that are the kind of person that Microsoft know their BS pr is gonna work with. You are a blinded loyalist if you actually believe anything you just type. BTW Sony doesn't have to do anything because their system is already 50% more powerful the xbone
avengers1978  +   199d ago
In a recent tweet Phil said think Perfect Dark Zero compared to Halo 4, I think a performance gain will happen, but like 20-30%
Really it's up to devs to fully utilize this.
tuglu_pati  +   199d ago
well from perfect dark to halo 4 there more than 30% gain PDZ looked so terrible. But I get what you are saying I think 25-30% is a safer bet.
imt558  +   199d ago
So it will with PS4 too. And even more than on Xbone.

GAP IS WIDER THAN YOU THINK!
christian hour  +   199d ago
I read this as...

"In a recent tweet Phil said games naturally get better during a consoles life cycle"

Which can also be read as

"In a recent tweet, Phil states the obvious."
Gamer1982  +   199d ago
Hes right when he says faster than what?
3-4-5  +   199d ago
The only way I see this working is like how the N64 had the memory adapter that improved performance.

It cost $40-50 and was REQUIRED for games like Perfect Dark.

* Could they be working on something similar, like USB plug in memory or something ?
FinalomegaS  +   199d ago
the memory pack... only got it for Turok 2

love that game
christian hour  +   199d ago
Haha I had just mentioned this in a comment here and was reading through everyone elses, good to see someone else remembers this :)

I was also thinking, would a usb memory expansion be possible? Not sure of the bandwidth and transfer speed of USB 2.0 though, that would be the major deciding factor. Are the new gen consoles using USB 3.0 or 2.0? I have no idea... This would be an amazing thing if it was possible. But something tells me it probably isnt. The memory pack of the n64 directly connected to the MOBO as far as I remember through a pre-designed Expansion Bay.

@finalomegaS Dat Cerebral Bore, yo! One of the best video game weapons EVER.
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bennissimo  +   199d ago
Yup. And big surprise that a PS4 dev said it can't be so.
FanboyKilla  +   199d ago
Lol i bet most people commenting are sony fans. Its easy to see. If you owned a xone why would you act negatively about possible improvements? Why not say hell yeah i hope its true because that would be good for me. Its not like you cant get a xone. Stop hateing cause you dont have one. And why would i listen to someone talk about their comp? And why doesnt sony and their devs have enough class to do their own thing? Pointing and talking like six graders lmfao. Get yo ass to work on some games for this POWERFUL console you got, instead of looking over the fence at the other guys. I would love to see xone fans able to discuss this topic on n4g without sony ponys shitn all over the comments. Well i guess you would have to boo boo after eatin all the shit sony and n4g feeds you. *giggles*
christian hour  +   199d ago
Most people arent reacting negatively about possible improvements. Theyre reacting negatively towards outlandish claims. If microsoft weren't taking their audience for idiots, people like me wouldnt need to chime in and clarify some things in the hopes to prevent some people from being misled. That's all I'm trying to do. If Sony came out and said that a new update to the ps4 did something similar, i'd be calling BS on that too.
Patrick_pk44  +   199d ago
Well DX12 will be cooking your console due to overheating :)

Nah, I kid. I would like to see how DX12 can perform on Xbox One, and if the claims are true that there is at least some performance boost. I don't believe it will be extravagant but something is better then nothing. If Microsoft was interested in developing more powerful hardware then why did they build one so weak?
SephirothX21  +   199d ago
Well from what was shown, there was some serious increases in speed. The X1 gpu isn't too different to the gpus shown in Microsoft's demo. I don't know if performance will double but it certainly seems like cpu efficiency and multi-threading will be improved significantly.
Eddie20101  +   199d ago
They said holiday 2015(November, December) A year and a half away before DirectX12 is released and probably much longer for games to take advantage of it, and that's even it it makes a difference on the Xbox One because games are already programmed to the metal on consoles.

There is no way in the real world is DirectX12 going to double the speed of a GPU. IT's a lie, it is not freeking possible. Get it through your thick Xbox fanboy sculls.

Who makes such bold claims without showing anything to prove it, nothing at all....Microsoft does, then tells people to wait a year and a half, which in reality is more than two years from the Xbox One's release, to see the benefits.
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christian hour  +   199d ago
The way I see it, the same people that misinterpreted microsoft talking about improvements with dx12 for the PC (this is the part AMD,Nvidia etc gave the thumbs up towards)as being about the xbox one, are the same kind of people I used to know that would think if they defragmented their win 95/98/2000/xp pc's 4 times in a row, it would make the PC run 4 times faster. And even though it didnt, they swore that it did work... I've learned to just let those kinds of people live in their fantasy world.

I dunno if anyone will read down this far so long after this was posted, nobody ever really does, but I just want to clarify some things.

Xbox fanboys, when you diss sony fanboys for calling the cloud a myth, They're not calling it a myth. Of course the cloud is real. Cloud computing has been around for a VERY long time now. And its not exclusive to Microsofts console. Anything with an internet conection can tap in to a cloud network.

What they're dismissing as a myth is Microsofts claims about what it will do for every xbox one owner across the board. Yes these things are possible now, in a controlled environment, where the ping between console/pc is minimal and the server itself is pretty close by, and maybe only one person is using it. To achieve their claims across the board, from any point in the world, regardless of ping? It's just not possible today. Sorry. "Deal with it".

As for this whole DX12 thing... Where do I even start. Nvidia and AMD were referring to the benefits for PC when they discussed how great DX12 will be. As for Xbox One, it might make a few things run smoother like the UI and what not. But an overall increase to games? Minimal and unnoticeable if anything.

The only thing that will improve the games themselves would be something similar to what Nintendo did back with the n64. Anyone remember the expansion slot? Certain games like Donkey Kong 64 and Perfect Dark came out that boasted increased visuals and performance over previous n64 games, but you needed the expansion pack. If you didn't have it, I think you could only play Multiplayer in Perfect Dark, not sure if you could even play Donkey Kong at all.

I don't think the xbox one has an expansion bay. And considering how different todays consoles are compared to what was under the hood of an n64 or PSX, it doesn't seem viable today.

So in short, the cloud exists, its just not going to do what they're demonstrating, and they should be more transparent about their tech demo at build, instead of trying to mislead their customers in to false hope. DX12 does improve performance, just not as much as stated, and not in reference to XboxOne.

I'm not here to diss your console, I hope you're all enjoying it very much and I'll pick mine up when Halo hits I imagine, I'd just prefer if you stopped lapping up their BS PR so they will stop using BS PR and start being a little more honest and up front to their customers. I ask that of every company.

I can't support a company that doesnt do this. It's why I'll never buy an iSomething, not until Apple cops on. Thats my mantra. I'm not a fanboy. Or a Sony Pony. Just an honest person who respects honesty. Take it or leave it at that.
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deathisgamesok  +   199d ago
An important fact is that Sony already has a low level API so while it's great that the efficiency will be improved on future Xbone games, it's basically catching up with what is already possible on the PS4.

I think it's obvious that statements like "giving every Xbox One owner a new GPU that is twice as fast as the old one" are pure PR talk. It's obviously going to improve things which is great but doubliing GPU speed is too much to ask for.
#2 (Edited 199d ago ) | Agree(27) | Disagree(22) | Report | Reply
pyramidshead  +   199d ago
Very well said. In an xbox fanboy world what happens is that as DX12 is slowly implemented the PS4 starts to dismantle itself as it progresses backwards in optimisation.

Sigh. If the PS4 API is already very mature and development friendly, think how it's going to be by the time DX12 comes out! Maybe we should start our own secret sauce quest, heh.
Kavorklestein  +   198d ago
I don't think anybody expects the PS4 to fall behind. It won't.
That's not what most XB1 fans are saying, and you know that.
You said something that existed in YOUR head, which is why it is part of your comment.
XB1 fans (97 percent of them, based on what I see them saying)are purely and SIMPLY hoping that the statements are true. Whether they are or aren't is not really the issue, it's the way XB1 fans are being treated just for HOPING it might be true to some degree.. if that is such a problem, then I can picture all these Sony fans who have children, and it is sad.
Son: "Dear Santa, I want a PS4 for Christmas!"
Father: "Santa can't just give you anything thing you want, as a matter of fact, he's not real, and you are grounded for 3 weeks for believing in Santa. You are Stupid for believing in Santa. I'm gonna tell all your friends at school that they AND YOU, are Stupid for believing in Santa"
And the father then proceeds to beat the living shit out of his kid.

What's so wrong with letting people believe what they want to believe?
Even if MS is lying, and even if you DO have a point that the benefit may not be that significant, why do you guys have to make it your life's defining quest to crush the hopes and dreams of others?

In fact, if you were really doing the IDEAL thing as a gamer, you would be enjoying your console, REGARDLESS of what is going on with the XB1. And you would be able to say "I don't belive it and here's why" without being rude, without all the hatred, and without all the un-needed negativity that comes from it.

If you guys like your PS4's then FOCUS on them! Stop hating others/on others for FOCUSING on their consoles!!!
If you guys were truly comfortable with YOUR purchase decisions, then you would have no NEED to be in Xbox articles and if you have somthing to say, say it, but don't harp on people who are taking MS at face value, just because YOU personally WON'T/can't.

It these things end up true or false, then NO MATTER WHAT, it STILL doesn't affect you guys being able to Enjoy your Sony consoles!

It's as if unless people bow to you guys and suck your balls saying: "Yes Masters! You have such the bestest everz consolez in the plannettz! I, my children, and my children's children will will donate our lives, money, souls, and finest Virgins to your cause till the end of our bloodline!" that you can't just feel good enough with the differences between all types of people, and all types of preferences.

Are you gonna pick a fight with somebody in a Wal-mart parking lot because he won't stop driving his Mustang JUST BECAUSE you drive a Corvette?
NO.
So you should probably stop doing it here, cuz all it does is clarify all suspicions of "Tiny PEE PEE" syndrome.

What you or somebody else buys doesn't define who you are, what defines whether someone is a good person/a good role model/worth listening to is how they handle things. ESPECIALLY when it's really truly none of their business BECAUSE of the console they decided to buy.

If chatrooms/forums REALLY wanted to stop fanboys they should require a verified gamertag/psn ID to log into certain articles.
Otherwise, it's on us to at least be logical in how we treat others.
And I'm definitely not gonna go into an APPLE store and start shouting "You fools should all get PC's"
So if you are enjoying your system of choice, why do the equivalent of THAT in here?
You're not gonna get any converts to "The SONY Way" by doing it, it's basically just to stroke you self-masturbastory egos... and Here's a clue: Nobody cares, BUT YOU.
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MasterCornholio  +   199d ago
Wow and I never expected lifeisgameok evil twin to be rational and make good comments.

Bubble up.
Animal Mutha 76  +   199d ago
who said twice as fast?

That's just silly. Improvement yes but not doubling of power.
aerisbueller  +   199d ago
Not only will it be twice as fast, but next year's SDK update will make the XBox One grow a VR helmet you can wear.
GW212  +   199d ago
Now THAT is some secret sauce.
cruzngta  +   199d ago
Its just another topic for MS to keep their hardware relevant in the power struggle it faces versus the PS4 which has a definitive edge this gen. I am sure DX12 will be nice and all but will never double the power or give owners a 'new' gpu - thats a little much.
Pon4   199d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(2)
Pon4   199d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(2)
feraldrgn  +   199d ago
Well anybody would be suspicious of it "doubling" performance, we're not talking Snes/PS1 here.
raWfodog  +   199d ago
I'm suspicious of a lot of claims from any developers (regardless of camp) until I actually see finished products. They're a lot like politicians, spouting claims, getting people all hyped, then backtracking/downplaying later on.
Goku781   199d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(1)
sAVAge_bEaST  +   199d ago | Funny
3x power of the Clowd

2x power of DX12

=

5xbones in One ,, Yo!

/s
quenomamen  +   199d ago
U forgot the second GPU so secret that so far has been harder to find than flight 370.
GW212  +   199d ago
Too soon? Eh, nah, whatever.
Speak_da_Truth  +   199d ago
this made laugh so hard i'm choking like one of those devs in the article LMAOOOO!!!!!
kurruptor  +   199d ago | Funny
Its multiplicative.

3x cloud
2x dx12
=
6x power

As quenomamen said, the secret GPU. Let's say that is another 1.5x.
9x total power

Also, when Kinect isn't mandatory and eating up resources, another 1.5x.
13.5x total power
svoulis  +   199d ago
I thought we were done with these claims? I though having Phil Spencer onboard was going to stop all this non sense. This is the kind of stuff that gets Microsoft in trouble. I am not saying they won't deliver performance increase over time (just like the 360 and PS3) but I am saying it wont be 2x as powerful simply because of software optimizations.

They need to just accept the hardware they put out, make the games they want and be humble about the whole thing. You can't make something out of nothing, its just not possible.

As an owner of an Xbox One even I know this is pure PR sewage to attract people to the Xbox One, but thats only going to attract fanboys and make these kind of articles bait for them to come in and talk down the console once again.

I accept that my Xbox One isn't as powerful as my PS4, I also accept the fact that I have TitanFall and Ryse on my Xbox One and I can't wait for Quantum Break, and Halo 5.

-_-
MasterCornholio  +   199d ago
Its the media and Mr.X who interpret the news in the way they want and then make absurd claims about the systems capabilities. Then you get morons who believe in those claims and post comment after comment about them in N4G. Thats the way it works.
MonsterChef  +   199d ago
I can agree on that your happy with your purchase and I'm happy with mine, no need to flame wars over nothing especially PR manure
svoulis  +   199d ago
It Microsoft starting the flame war because of articles like this. This will not only get PS4 fanboys involved it will get PC elitest as well. There is no need to keep on keeping on about this stuff, just let time do its thing and when you have the PROOF show it. Don't show it on a PC (like the did with cloud compute) Don't say "I've seen it work and its impressive" that doesn't mean anything to anyone who hasn't seen it. Just let things be or Microsoft will once again make themselves look pretty stupid.
MonsterChef  +   199d ago
@ svoulis I've already came to temrs with PC elitist they will always have better hardware just these articles muddy the water for Xbox fans they should come to realize that the ps4 has better hardware then the Xbox one and that's a fact nothing shorter then them upgrading their GPU is going to change that , last generation I had to deal with mutli plats being optimize for the 360 I remember how much clearer the 360 version of red dead redemption was over the ps3 but it wasn't that big of a deal just like it isn't now, whatever Xbox fans think I'm a blindfanboy so
aerisbueller  +   199d ago
I've been firmly anti-MS for a long time for a million reasons, but I'll come to their defense here.

I think Phil Spencer is the best thing to happen to XBox for a long long time, and this particular nugget of bullshiz came before Spencer did, or at least before the gradual circulation of the memo that says not to lie through their teeth at every opportunity.
svoulis  +   199d ago
I agree that He will be the reason that Xbox One stays afloat. That being said he doesn't have full control of what people spew out of their faces in order to try and get some attention. Any attention is good attention in this industry. Negative or not it will turn heads one way or another.

Lets just hope this trend gets killed off now that they have a guy who appreciates games and gamers running the show.
S2Killinit  +   199d ago
MS takes people for chumps i guess
Flamingweazel  +   199d ago
Ms once agin treats people like idiots and xbox fans lap it up. MS Pr is the worst I have ever seen, so dishonest. Anyone with a brain knows this 2X performance stuff was hogwash.
Hercules189  +   199d ago
It may not double the power, but it will be more than enough for the Xbox one to keep up. The exclusives will show it, Quantum Break and Sunset Overdrive are looking amazing and they're not even using the full advantage of DX12.
Speak_da_Truth  +   199d ago
what have seen of both games besides trailers which might just be cg and as for sunset overdrive that game doesn't look amazing sorry.
aerisbueller  +   199d ago
dude, Hercules, seriously. I can't believe there are people who are still thinking like this.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie....
tuglu_pati  +   199d ago
@Flamingweazel

You know it wasn't MS who made the claim... right? It came from a Dev who is working on the dx12 demo. People should stop blaming the wrong company, makes you look desperate.
frankdrebin72  +   199d ago
it would seem that microsoft is the anti christ,.they have murdered,butchered and decapitated little kids the way some peeps react,..yet Sony is whiter than white...get a fn grip ..its buisness,..and the vendetta against microsoft is for???...
you guys need to look and remember the claims sony gave for the ps3.. and ALOT never happened..im not going to copy paste articles but sony have done to you what you claim microsoft are doing now....fact of the matter is microsoft are THe more sucessful buisness...get over it..
"you can measure the integrity of a man by the amount of critisism that comes out of his mouth"
BlackTar187  +   199d ago
Except Frank, M$ is pretty damn close to be the Anti Christ with allot of stuff they've been accused of and allot of things they've been proven to be a part of.

Although i know Anti Christ is a splash word to grab attention they aren't above anything.

They have a long history of Anti Trust, Anti consumer issues they deal with on a yearly basis. The very founder of the company damn near stole everything from people.

I can;t hate Bill cuz of all the good he does do now but lets no get distracted in what this company was founded on and about. Yes i dislike M$ but it has very very little to do with console gaming. Console gaming is a very small small part. People seem to be unable to process this bit of truth from allot of older gamers and SW enthusiasts.
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MonsterChef  +   199d ago
@ frankdrebin and that's why you don't believe what your told especially from the source let it be said from outside sources Sony promised so much for the ps2 I remember that but I still like the variety and quality of games that the Sony camp was chugging out they got me on the ps3 paid over $700 for line and let me tell you after playing online on the 360 the psn was so dead quite I regretted my decision but that change in 08 look what I'm trying to say is give both companies 2years time only then well we know which is better for gaming , PS Sony has had the better success when it comes to the gaming industry
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MCTJim  +   199d ago
Gaming Bolt at its finest again I see.

Tons of MAJOR Hardware and software devs seem to be praising the new SDK's and DX12 and the performance gains be it PC or X1 and then this...well I guess we should start seeing more doom and gloom articles for MS and Sony soon too .

This was not a PR conference but a Dev build conference showing them what DX12 can do
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tuglu_pati  +   199d ago
don't waste you time trying to explain it to them. They are in auto defense right now
The_devils_chum  +   199d ago
If you noticed It wasnt microsoft that made the claims, it came from some single dev whom of course had something to gain. So 2 years from now when all the hype fizzes away kinda like kinect sports rivals which just got a 2 out of 5 and people get pissed of for being misled again MS can say we didnt make those claims.
Septic  +   199d ago
"So 2 years from now when all the hype fizzes away kinda like kinect sports rivals which just got a 2 out of 5 and people get pissed of for being misled again "

Since when did people have high hopes for Kinect Sports Rivals??

That's B.S. How many degrees has the top game review attracted or the game in general attracted? Negligible amounts.
MasterCornholio  +   199d ago
I dont think people expect anything good from Rare to be honest.
lemoncake  +   199d ago
If you asked apple developers about samsung products you would get similar responses, its to be expected from rivals.
MasterCornholio  +   199d ago
Except some or these developers are not even Sony devs.

Read the article.
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bleedsoe9mm  +   199d ago
maybe you should quote the damning statement that was made from someone other than a sony employee , because all i read were cautious statements which seem very reasonable
bleedsoe9mm  +   199d ago
2 sony programers have doubts about dx12 , not really a shock , problem is right now anyone that has access to dx12 is working on a project for ms , so they are immediately seen as carrying ms water by some . i personally don't see the advantage for wardell , if he's full of it all it does is tarnish his and stardocks image
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isarai  +   199d ago
Some people just want desperately for XB1 to have some "Secret Sauce" that will magically give it more power over PS4 so they can talk shit again. I say just fucking be happy with what you got, and maybe if graphics are that damn important to you then get something else
#16 (Edited 199d ago ) | Agree(14) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
u got owned  +   199d ago
Well and some people jsut want the bone to not have the secret sauce just so that they can feel better about their gaming console choice.

I love my PS4 in fact I bought it before the bone but people here just seem to be desperate, hey if i can get better performance from my xbox one im a happy gamer. It doesn't change the fact that i love my ps4 either.
isarai  +   199d ago
I have no strong feelings either way, and if MS can actually do this then great, i'm happy for the XB1 owners. But if you knew even a little bit about hardware and optimizations and have had experience with Direct X in the past you'd know that this claim is just outlandish. I'm sure we'll see some sort of visual improvement, but never has an update increased hardware capabilities by double unless it had some software issues to start with
DanielGearSolid  +   199d ago
Instead of acting like we know, let's just wait and see
GW212  +   199d ago
Are you lost on the Internet? That doesn't really happen on this site.

I think you're looking for something a little more mature.

But if you're looking for a bunch of 13 year old kids who buy their console of choice with mommy and daddy's money and then protect the good name of said console as if it was their first born, then you are in the right place my friend.
Sci0n  +   199d ago
Exactly, my fellow Sony gamers lets just give it a rest you can't stop certain people from believing what they want to no matter how hard you try. Some gamers hopes absolutely outweigh any facts in there mind, you just have to let them be. They will eventually figure it out hell some already know what it is they just go online looking for a fight because they are upset about there console of choice not living up to there expectations. Time will tell everything even to the most blind in denial fanboy but there will always be a small minority that will never be able to be reached and just will sink with the ship.
mochachino  +   199d ago | Well said
It's remarkable how many blatant lies MS gets away with.

Remember Milo, and Kinect scanning in any object to use in game and how software would allow for 1-1 controls.

MS is the master at dangling carrots in front of hungry fanboys who follow like mindless donkeys.

According to MS Xone is 6 times more powerful than 360. With direct x12 making Xone twice as powerful and the cloud making it 4 times as powerful. Sometime in the "non specified" distant future Xone will be 48x more powerful than 360 making it the largest jump in console power ever. Far greater than the standard 10x and more powerful than any gaming PC.

Can't wait for...oh MS hasn't said exactly when this will happen just that it will in the future. Until then I'll play on my PS4 which has demonstrated its games look better than Xone but can't wait to see these Pixar quality Xone games in an unspecified amount of years.
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Ank666  +   199d ago
The conference that showed power of project natal made me buy an XBone
Also the need to play Gears,Mass Effect,Bioshock,Splinter Cell,GTA Liberty city episodes,Ryse & Alan Wake

Only Gears & Alan Wake remained exclusive
Rest all went multiplat

Ryse & Milo never showed up on 360
& now look where Ryse & Kinnect sports Rivals are (60 or less on meta)

So DirextX 2x & Cloud 4x & ESram 2x

The XBone is going to be 8X more powerful soon

Only thing I learned with experience is to never trust the ppl Woking at Xbox
tuglu_pati  +   199d ago
@mochachino

Ms didn't make the claim. You need to do your research. Even Phil tweeted a while ago we would see around 20%-30%.
mochachino  +   199d ago
Ok just the 4x more power from the cloud then and whatever directx12s 20-30% does in the non specified future ...so like only 28x more powerful than 360. Still beats the 10x from previous gens and would be more than twice as powerful as PS4

Can't wait...

for that to probably never happen.
tuglu_pati  +   199d ago
What if its true and all that happen. Then you will go to the corner and cry?you guys are having a breakdown with this news... for me personally, i wouldn't care, I have my PC for my graphics needs.
mochachino  +   199d ago
Well by the time that ever happens, and it's a big if, like probably never going to happen this gen if - xone will be like $200 and I'll buy one.

Probably buy one before that for Halo when it drops to $250 - 300 in 3 or 4 years.
OsirisBlack  +   199d ago
Well when you add up the second hidden super GPU the Cloud and DX12 + extra special secret sauce the XB1 will be more powerful than even gaming PC's the PS4 will just be an afterthought.

This sarcasm was brought to you by the proud owner of an XB1,PS4,Wii U and Gaming PC ..... I do not hate my XB1 but I do not buy their bull ....
cruzngta  +   199d ago
same here bro - I have both PS4 and XB1 but I am intelligent enough to know the PS4 is more capable. And no amount of MS PR bullshit about 'secret sauce' is going to change that either.
Immorals  +   199d ago
You both claim to be intelligent not to believe the MS PR 'bull', yet It didn't come from Ms ;).

I bought an Xbox one knowing it's power, knowing the ps4 had a slight hardware advantage. Anything extra that may/may not come from DX12 is just an added bonus.
kurruptor  +   199d ago
Even the guy who made the original quote can't even make sense.

-- Wardell himself took to Twitter to clarify his statement of DX12 giving “every Xbox One owner a new GPU that is twice as fast as the old one”. “It’s not literally (it’s software, not hardware) but yes, dx12 games will likely by more than 2x as fast.” --

Basically someone called him out on the twice as fast and he says, well not literally.... but yes MORE THAN 2X

Just dumb
ElementX  +   199d ago
By literally he referred to "giving a new gpu".
Belasco  +   199d ago
So now the devs word is instantly taken for gospel over AMD,Nvidia, and Intel, because they are saying what you all wish to hear. And 2 of those devs work for Sony, so I think we can go ahead and toss their opinions.
#21 (Edited 199d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(11) | Report | Reply
joeorc  +   199d ago
@Belasco

"So now the devs word is instantly taken for gospel over AMD,Nvidia, and Intel, because they are saying what you all wish to hear. And 2 of those devs work for Sony, so I think we can go ahead and toss their opinions."

Look , while i think there is going to be increase in performance gain , for DX12 that is a fact, what is very unlikely is a 2x performance gain.

Look at every ver of Direct X , your performance gain throughput to the I/O from the GPU threading may increase to that over all sustained High of 2 times the performance % by software, but the over all performance gain is very doubtful to obtain that % and sustain it due to A: Heat and over burn of the component's just because they can get to a two times performance gain for 8 sec's does not mean that the system shuts down and maybe if your not lucky burn out a component, does not = the "new performance of the component" that's like blowing up your auto's engine but calling the speed you gained its true top speed, lol, again due to the I/O output that has to take the pipeline as only as fast as its rated for!

No matter how fast you claim it can go there is still limits, to exactly what the real world performance gain will be or gain and its very unlikely to attaain that high a % before long it shuts down or ouright burns out!.

remember this Quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

just my opinion, think what you want, but past claims about performance gains in software to that level has been done many times before, and has come up short, way short many times over, could they have done it, who knows, but im not betting on it to that degree for any real sustained level of time.

I could indeed be wrong, but im not betting on it, this is not from a fanboy this is from a strictly engineering stand point.
#21.1 (Edited 199d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Belasco  +   199d ago
I don't think it will be 2x, but there will be readily noticeable improvement. Tired of it being beat down into the dirt like its not a big deal.
Ank666  +   199d ago
First it was the Power of the clouds
Then came the game changer ESram

Then the infamous secret sauce hidden GPU popped up(though un official,this made me crack to my core)

& Now we have a 50% performance booster DirectX 12
So now API's will boost hardwares to function 50% faster
Why would ppl need hardware upgrades anyway when API's can boost it

Any way this is evidently turning hilariously idiotic with each new secret sauce popping up to make XBone compete with PS4

While Sony is busy walking the Walk instead of talking :- http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Let me know when XBone be it with cloud,ESram,GPU or DirectX or a combination of all,can match up to these graphics above ;)
Belasco  +   199d ago
I am not one to tout DX12, the cloud, or any other future enhancement as the second coming, but as an X1 owner I am excited for all of the possibilities any of these things could potentially bring. But any enthusiasm from anyone that is an Xbox fan is met with pure contempt, It has reached an all time high on this site. I honestly think some of you will develop ulcers over this before its over. Please, just let us have our discussions without all the bickering, because it's gotten beyond obnoxious.
No_Limit  +   199d ago
So a Sony Developer hating on a competition's technology and it is the truth? LOL
#23 (Edited 199d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(18) | Report | Reply
killzone619  +   199d ago
why is this Sony ICE dev always hating on dx12....hmmm
joeorc  +   199d ago
"why is this Sony ICE dev always hating on dx12....hmmm"

Read it again, he's not hating on it at all, he is very doubtful of the 2 times performance gain, its from an engineering stand point. He's being blunt to be reserved in view of the claim. and its not just Sony only developer's. I would like to see what john carmack or Ed fries or Ben Heck to look at it and see what they say about the claim of two times the performance, which i doubt they would agree with that claim also.

Yes there will be a increase in performance, but no where near that high for sustained time, due to increase heat on the components. that is a fact you cannot get away from, you cannot increase the performance by that much and not expect increase in sustained heat even with the xboxone's heat dissipation passive and the fact its heat pipes are very functional, i doubt very much that it would be able to avoid such sustained heat for long before it shuts down if the performance gain was that high!
cruzngta  +   199d ago
I own both but even I am getting tired of all these 'performance enhancements' yet to be seen for XB1. I am sure DX12 will help get us better games but does MS and their PR have to have some new 'secret sauce' article out every freaking day now? This is getting crazy already. 2015 is a LONG way off - get it out and then tell us about how great it is with a REAL demo for us - than nobody can dispute the power gains. Hows that for an idea MS? This all looks so desperate already and that is why PS4 people are on here making comments and laughing their asses off as well. Its just to comedic by now.
Dlacy13g  +   199d ago
Don't blame MS for sites putting out 5 articles from the same interview broken up. This is the downside of N4G. N4G is a landing spot for articles from all kinds of sites...hence you have a ton of repetitive news. Every breaking news story when major has one maybe two articles on the main gaming sites but because its N4G we get 1 to 2 articles from 10 different websites all with their own spin and takes...

Its just N4G
Dlacy13g  +   199d ago
I am pretty sure we are seen a lot of bad statements and mis-quotes around DX12. It's like a bad game of Telephone which is pretty par for the internet. Someone says you can expect to see a doubling of performance and instantly journos take that quote an run with it. The assumption quickly becomes it will boost the capability of the hardware. People run around crazy with that until someone stops to think how that could actually be?

DX12 physically can't make the hardware double its speed at which it works unless it actually involves a firmware updgrade to hardware that actually changes the speed at which it operates. Pretty sure we can all agree that would be a very bad move given the hardware was not built to run at such speeds.

So what then? Pretty sure DX12 will allow the efficiency at which the hardware handles programs to be come much better....as in doubling its efficiency and thus giving the effect of a double of the hardware performance because it is handling the code much more efficiently. You can call it secret sauce if you want but the reality is this is just a much more efficient way for the code to run on the hardware from what I can tell.

This isn't a downplay to what effect DX12 will have, nor is it saying that others like Sony can't come up with something similar to DX12 for their systems as we know AMD already has put Mantle out which is similar but not as aggressive in my understanding.
Cobra951  +   199d ago
I think you have a pretty good handle on reality. The one comment that struck me in that story was from the .NET programmer, regarding a lower abstraction level. DirectX is an example of a hardware abstraction layer, or HAL for short. The lower the abstraction, the closer the developer gets to programming the hardware directly. On PCs, the abstraction needs to be rather severe, because programs need to work across a wide variety of hardware configurations. But a console's hardware spec is set in stone. A HAL isn't strictly needed at all, though it may be a practical necessity, in terms of affordable software development. But it can certainly be much more efficient than its PC-bound counterpart, and perhaps this is where the claimed 2X performance increase will (allegedly) spring from. We shall see, won't we?
Ulf  +   199d ago
I totally believe that the drivers are 2X as fast, and that the amount of CPU time burned on a game's render thread may be close to half of what it used to be.

That doesn't make the rest of the game 2X as fast as well, however. Nor does it make the GPU 2x as fast. It makes the GPU's use more efficient, and that's great... just not 2x as efficient.

This is exactly what's being said. People are misinterpreting it to mean that XB1 GPU performance will double, which is wrong -- journalists are presenting it that way to the tech-ignorant, however, to make a story. The journalists doing so are probably also ignorant of the tech they are talking about.

If I had to guess, I'd put the amount of extra frames this would yield, in a game bound by things like draw calls, at somewhere between 5-20%. Typical improvements will probably be in the 5% range. That's a frame or two at 30 fps (which is nice!), but it doesn't make a 30 fps game into a 60 fps game.
#27 (Edited 199d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
joeorc  +   199d ago
@Ulf

"This is exactly what's being said. People are misinterpreting it to mean that XB1 GPU performance will double, which is wrong -- journalists are presenting it that way to the tech-ignorant, however, to make a story. The journalists doing so are probably also ignorant of the tech they are talking about.

If I had to guess, I'd put the amount of extra frames this would yield, in a game bound by things like draw calls, at somewhere between 5-20%. Typical improvements will probably be in the 5% range. That's a frame or two at 30 fps (which is nice!), but it doesn't make a 30 fps game into a 60 fps game."

100% agreed

There is so little we know about it at this point, but there is a very clear line between a increase in software gains inside the hardware's performace %, its a whole other story to try to define that performance gain as being able to keep performance boost that high without shutting down the d@mn component..LMAO.. IBM got a processor up to past 5+ GHz sustained but its also a freaking Mainframe ..

http://publib.boulder.ibm.c...

your not going to get that % performance increase to be sustained with what heat dissipation that the xboxone has ben heck took it already apart and with what's inside the xboxone, you can clearly see with what it has there is not way it was geared for that level of performance gain to the xboxone's GPU because for one its not even a stacked 3D TSV.

Thus since its not even on the same die the heat dissipation it has would not be enough for sustained time, it would have to be quite a bit more. for one do many not stop to think that even PC GPU cards also need fans and heat sinks to offset its heat? so now the Xboxone would be able to increase its performance by that without needed and added heat dissipation?.

This is from an Engineering point no need to be a fanboy, its a very valid point to Ask that Question.
corvusmd  +   199d ago
It's fine to be somewhat skeptical at this point, but on the other hand, to be in flat out denial of it is just as foolish as being 100% it's true. We don't have 100% proof either way at this point. I doubt that it will lead to GPUs being twice as fast IN PRACTICE...maybe in theory and the potential is there, but that could create heat issues. The thing that makes me believe the "pro" side a little more is that they ALL have experience in using/help developing it (when we talk about nVidia, AMD, Stardock, etc). For them to be that excited as 3rd parties and stick their necks out when they don't need to...it's noteworthy. This article says that it admits that at least one of the guys has no experience with it at all...and just based on the quote of the Respawn Dev (I think) ...all he said is that it made him choke on his coffee/tea or something when he READ about it...either means he's skeptical or really excited about it...but either way that he has no hands on it.

So YES, it's your right to be skeptical, but keep it fair and be skeptical both ways, esp since at this point, those that saying it's the real deal have much more actual experience with the product...and keep in mind, most of these claims aren't even being made by MS. (Again, there may be a difference in potential and in practice "doubling of GPU").
joeorc  +   199d ago
@corvusmd

"So YES, it's your right to be skeptical, but keep it fair and be skeptical both ways, esp since at this point, those that saying it's the real deal have much more actual experience with the product...and keep in mind, most of these claims aren't even being made by MS. (Again, there may be a difference in potential and in practice "doubling of GPU")."

While you make a very grounded solid point, there is the fact inside the xboxone, heat dissipation tell's pretty much the story you already have the Answers just by heat sinks alone and heat pipes, alone there already is clear view of the xboxone's heat threshold compliance of components there and by increasing that performance direct to the Packaged APU with no other added heat dissipation, its one thing to account for an increase in heat but since direct x12 is not finished, there would be no real way to account for the increase in sustained temps to be bleed off across the APU in the xboxone without more needed heat dissipation added. which with the tear down already shows that it has not been added to offset this increase in heat for that sustained level.

Thus to increase that gain by that much without any added extra ability to offset the increase heat without solid sustained effects of a final dirext X12 on the xboxone, the output would not be set sustained without knowing how much it can gain without fault tolerances kicking in already there is in some cases we have seen that very function on both the PS4 and the xboxone but auto shut down's to avoid Over heat.
#28.1 (Edited 199d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
nannasin  +   199d ago
None of the people quoted are making games for the xbox one so how would they know what is or isnt possible.

Obviously, MS is counting on a different type of programming then what is already done if you watched or followed BUILD 2014.

There is a reason the xbox one is so big and airy and that is to be able to dissipate heat very well something that will be needed if all 6 CPU cores are being ramped.

E3 is going to be interesting. I cant wait to see MS and Sony conferences. Games are what everything is about and be interesting to see what games both companies have cooking. Sony isnt going to be able to get away with showing 10-12 indies that are also on vita.
purp13m0nk3y  +   199d ago
Of course it won't off 2x th the performance! That is just bollocks!

It will see gains yes. But they will be marginal. In a heavy CPU bound situation you might see a 2x performance gain. But the Xbox1 is more likely to be GPU bound in most situations.

And even if you do end up with a situation where its CPU bound. It will only be by a small margin. Increasing the CPU performance x2 is meaningless if the GPU is not able to keep up.

Any competent programmer could create a scenario where the CPU is heavily bound and the GPU has very little load. In this case if you could improve the CPU performance x2 you would indeed see a x2 increase in performance overall. But this is not a realistic real world situation.

Any well optimised game engine should have the GPU at almost peak load as much as possible. In which case x2 increase in CPU performance will mean little or nothing to the overall performance of the game. No where has MS claimed that DX12 will offer x2 GPU performance. All the focus has been on the CPU side of things.

Realistically. If they manage to get a 20-30% increase in real world performance they are doing well.

As a comparison. Mantle devs claimed up to a 400% increase in performance in "specific situations". In reality, the gains were closer to 20-30% on APU's and low to mid range GPU's. Mid to high end GPU's saw only very marginal gains.

These optimised low level APIs (Mantle, DX12) really only give massive gains to low end hardware that is heavily CPU bound. Even though the Xbox1 is technically low end hardware (both the CPU and GPU are only equivalent to low end PC parts) it also already has a very low level API.

I honestly don't believe DX12 will ever offer a x2 increase in performance overall. It just makes no sence what so ever from a technical standpoint.
Belasco  +   199d ago
I honestly don't believe DX12 will ever offer a x2 increase in performance overall. It just makes no sence what so ever from a technical standpoint.

No sence? Is that a U.K. thing like color/colour? And what is the "technical standpoint"? Do enlighten us.
purp13m0nk3y  +   199d ago
The main reason being that current gen consoles (Xbox1, PS4) are going to be GPU bound in 99% of real world situations.

The claims of DX12 offering x2 performance gains have been in heavily CPU bound scenarios. And probably "tech demos" designed to best highlight these gains not gameplay performance gains.

No API update has ever offered x2 real world performance increases before. Mantle, the first "low level" PC API (and arguably the most advanced to date) only offered 20-30% best case on low end hardware. And they were claiming 400% gains in some situations.

So MS claims of 200% should be taken with a big grain of salt. AMD did indeed have some "tech demos" on low end APU's that did indeed see almost 400% gains under Mantle. But these were very specific CPU bound situations that were not really relevant to real world gaming situations.

You don't think MS are doing the same thing?

To see a 200% increase in performance in a gaming environment on locked hardware from only a software update!! No way. Just not going to happen.
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