PS4 ICE Team Programmer: Anything Below 720p/30fps Is Actively Unpleasant

Cort Stratton who is a programmer at Naughty Dog and also a part of Sony's secret ICE team, has shared his thoughts on frame rate and resolution.

[pwnsause_returns]

so im assuming that U4 is going all out on resolution at least.

[Xsilver]

Not like theirs any game on PS4 that's 720p30fps so i don't U4 will be hitting nothing less than 1080p.

[thereapersson]

you think he would have said anything under 900p/30 frames a second would be unpleasant...

[rdgneoz3]

@thereapersson And then it would look like he's trying to insult MS.

[thereapersson]

@rdgneoz3

How so when he is referring to their technological benchmarks they are setting for themselves? Microsoft has.nothing to do with their drive to make the PS4 the best it can be. Yes, they understand competition, and realize that hardware differences are there, but this is their own goal and their own hardware they are referring to.

Those are some really quick stealth disagrees. It's like a lot of people are over sensitive for no reason...

[NatureOfLogic_]

@ rdgneoz3, Really? I thought he said 720p/30fps because of the Uncharted and TLOU. This is just my guess anyway.

[user1439414]

PS4 will always be better resolution than the XBONE. XoXoXo

[user5669510]

U4 maybe be 1920x800 like the order you never know, so throwing out anything isnt helping.

[ShinMaster]

I'll sacrifice resolution for better graphics.

But that's just me.

[TheDevKit]

@ShinMaster

I'd rather not play games at 240p.

[MetaReapre]

I'd rather the 60 fps over reaching 1080p. It affects the gameplay a lot more in combat games.

[UltraNova]

Since 1080p/60fps titles will be sparse this gen (to say the least), I'll go right ahead and say 1080p/30fps (rock solid) will do just fine.

Lets hope MS's various performance boost claims for the One come true (?) so titles on the PS4 wont get gimped, something that will be a real thread when enough xboxs are sold.

[gameseveryday]

I highly doubt that this is related to Uncharted. That is a general comment by Cort and does not necessarily apply to PS4 games.

[MrSec84]

The only indication of Naughty Dog's stance on what they'll be doing with PS4 games is The Last of Us Remastered.
They've said they're aiming for 1080p 60FPS & have talked about the graphics being the same as PS3 cutscenes, that's quiet a significant step up from the PS3 version of the game.

Things change on a game by game basis.

I guess we'll have to wait until they announce any specifics.

[Muffins1223]

Uncharted on ps4 will be 1080p 30fps,60fps is only good for racing,fighting, and FPS. For some reason gamers think 60fps is great for everything but its not for games line uncharted or last of us,takes away the cinematic feel.

[BiggCMan]

"but its not for games line uncharted or last of us,takes away the cinematic feel."

That's because you haven't played Uncharted or Last of Us in 60 frames per second yet. I will use Tomb Raider as an example here since this is basically a similar game.

Since I played it on PC I was able to get it to 60fps, and the game felt absolutely incredible. You think they make Uncharted and Last of Us 30fps for the cinematic feel, when it is the hardware limitations preventing them from getting to 60fps.

When Last of Us comes to PS4 in 60fps, you will be eating those words. It DOES matter, it DOES make any game even more satisfying to play.

Now resolution on the other hand is something that is blown out of proportion. Sure higher is better, but that only slightly changes how a game looks.

Frame rate is more important to me, and needs to be more important to others, because it actually affects how the game feels to play.

Neither will make a bad game, better. However they will make a great game, even greater, it's the truth.

[Grap]

@Muffins1223
"cinematic feel" my @rse
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[GW212]

@ BiggCMan - Yup, you nailed my opinion exactly.

[GarrusVakarian]

Anyone who expects Uncharted 4 to be 1080p 60fps is kidding themselves. It will be 1080p 30fps. I'd bet my life on it. There's no way ND are going to go with 60fps over making their game more visually stunning at 30fps, especially when their past games are some of the highest rated, and most critically acclaimed games of all time, which also ran at 30fps. Devs have to weigh up what they think is more important, extra graphical flare, or framerate. For big AAA blockbuster titles, the vast majority of the time it will be graphical flare that will be chosen. Pretty graphics sell games, framerate doesn't.

Expect many devs to choose 30fps with extra graphical flare over 60fps. We see it happening already with game such as DriveClub, Forza Horizon 2, Infamous SS, Ryse. And upcoming games like The Witcher 3, The Order: 1886 and Sunset Overdrive.

[tee_bag242]

@Muffins1223

'Cinematic feel'... lol.. In rendered games..right.. where do we start debunking this..

wait Grap posted a link responding to you.. watch it!

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

here's a another and different one in case you'd like to further educate yourself as to how foolish you sound parroting low fps a 'Cinematic feel'

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Kayant]

It's just his opinion on resolution Vs. framerate for games.

[user1439414]

PS4 is LIFE. Sony is LOVE. Playstation is THE WORLD.

[ABeastNamedTariq]

You gotta chill man

[mediate-this]

That is so tacky, its creepy. Playstation is games nothing more nothing less, not life( except for maybe a pro gamer) but not to the extent of vigil like worship. Xbox is games, ninty games so on n so on

[imt558]

PS4 is doomed and MisterX's prophecy is fulfilled!!!

[Cernunnos]

I feel like anything less than 1440p/60fps is quite unpleasant, but I guess I'm spoiled.

[Ratty]

Probably. I had a lot of fun with MGS3 on PS2 and it was 480 and running at 30fps. I'm sure it's still quite pleasant to play today ;p

[Cernunnos]

Of course, graphics are not everything. My favourite games to this date are MGS1 and Crash Bandicoot 2. It is just not what I expect frow newer titles though.

I play a lot of ARMA and DayZ, and 1440p has definitely helped my ability to spot targets in the distance.

[ITPython]

I have no problem with 30fps, just as long as it doesn't dip below that at all.

Something like what Infamous did seems ideal for me, unlocked framerate that hovers around 45fps or so most of the time, sometimes a little higher, sometimes a little lower.

[Xsilver]

Shots Fired http://media.tumblr.com/tum...

[Rainbowcookie]

well that escalated quickly :)

[MightyNoX]

This is exactly why people hated Blight town in Dark Souls. What a terrible experience and not because of the level design.

[Kayant]

Hahaha this so much man currently playing it on Xbox 360 and at times the framerate can drop to single digits. For me it's both however. That level is so damn annoying and frustrating at times.

OT - I do agree with his opinion on the matter that as long as a game is running above 30fps I would rather have more graphics affects then higher framerate.

Also before people go bananas for no reason here is the context.

"I acknowledge that ultra-low input latency has tangible benefits for certain genres of games (fighters, multiplayer shooters, etc.), but those aren't the games I tend to be playing," said Stratton.

"In most cases, I'd rather a team uses the extra 16 milliseconds per frame," he continued, referring to the difference in frame time between games at 60 fps and 30 fps, "to make the game world significantly more beautiful/fun/rich/complex/awe some, instead of wasting it all to make the game marginally more responsive to player input."

[Master-H]

I hate the upper section because it has death falls, the lower section is not that bad as long as you bring a bow for the freakin infinite mosquitoes.

[pyramidshead]

Ouch, get out the cling film you're gonna need for that burn!

[Godz Kastro]

If someone at MS said this I think the reaction would be totally different. If people stay on this resolution subject both consoles will suffer if devs feel their game will be criticized.

Sounds like a loss/loss for everyone.

[snookiegamer]

Not a loss for PS4 owners....

We can have 1080p on almost all our games. Battelfied was a very early launch title (excused), but Watch Dogs!! Hmm, Watch Dogs releasing @900p was a political move IMO.

It's never been officially mentioned, but the reason Watch Dogs was delayed so long, and we never heard anything about the X1 version until near release was because the devs were struggling to get the performance required.

Notice the obvious screen tearing in X1 games that are pushed too hard. TF, WD and soon COD AW.

[Software_Lover]

........ You think 900p was political? Wow. Some of you expect too much and know very little.

The game is on 5 platforms. The PC version isn't even top notch (textures and fx compared to the reveal). I guess the PC was dumbed down for politics also?

[Godz Kastro]

Im referring more to the frame rate. I like 1080p just like everyone else but am totally ok with a game being 30. Bumping up to 60 drastically reduces resources that can be used for graphical effects hence your infamous, the order, drive club, etc.

[uth11]

Why would it be a political move? It seems to just be a very demanding engine based on peoples PC experiences.

Right now it looks good and runs very smooth, but I bet if they bumped it up to full 1080p, the frame rate would get choppy and people would complain.

[showtimefolks]

snookiegamer

if developers really want to show next gen power than games can not be cross gen titles. Also i was so hoping that this generation developers would take advantage of what ps4 does best and what xbox one does best. why is it that one side has to suffer

if a game is possible on ps4 at 1080P-30FPS than it shouldn't be held back because it will make the xbox one version look bad

[Muzikguy]

While I agree with his statements, this should just be a given. Nobody should be programming for lower than 720p/30fps anymore. I also agree that I'd rather have resolution over frame rate. 1080 is what I want to see more of and what IMO makes a game look more visually appealing

[Ratty]

That's what I though too. 720p and 30 fps has been the established minimum for years on consoles. I like the ICE team and all that but saying that is kind of meh.

[Metallox]

Framerate over resolution. I can play a game even at 240p, that's the least of my problems, but I can't stand any game with lots of frame drops, it gets extremely annoying.

[Muzikguy]

I wasn't taking about frame rate drops. I'm talking about steady frame rate AND higher resolution. 1080P to me looks nice. Also, with these new systems, 30fps locked shouldn't be a problem either.

[Volkama]

What is "secret" about the ICE team? Or is that just supposed to make them sound all cool any mysterious?

[WeAreLegion]

They're basically the CIA of PlayStation. So, yes, they're cool.

[Volkama]

Oh I'm not denying they're cool, I just don't think they're particularly secretive. Unless Cort Stratton is an alias.

[Nine_Thousaaandd]

I'm calling it, Uncharted 4 to be 1080p/30fps (locked). And I'm perfectly ok with that. I have faith in ND to deliver a masterpiece like no other!

Though I welcome 60fps...

[Shakengandulf]

I'm perfectly fine with locked 30 too, really hoping games like gran turismo remain 60fps though.
Watchdogs on ps4 was a solid 30fps and it was incredibly smooth and i swear it has the controller response of a 60fps game.
Don't care what anyone says, as long as its locked.. 30fps is very acceptable.

[B1uBurneR]

You hear that Xbox One owners 792p @30fps passes the bar according the Powah standards, that means the Xbox is a officially a next gen system.. this call for a celebration.!!!

[snookiegamer]

At least we know somebody got the Memo :)

[jay2]

So true. I want 1080P/30FPS as a standard, human eye can't actually see 60FPS over 30 but things are smoother for us at 60 but we couldn't tell you if you showed us content without telling us.

[Pandamobile]

"human eye can't actually see 60FPS"

I can see a huge difference between my 60 Hz and 120 Hz monitor.

Does that make me non-human?

[TheDevKit]

That makes you infamous.

[Grap]

human eye?, hmmm. apes eyes maybe, human nah they can notice 120fps.

[DanteVFenris666]

First off people stop pestering him. As far as my game psych course the human eye can read 60 fps. 120 no, that is impossible. What your brain is doing is trying to interpret what's happening in between the scences it can't see and that's what creates motion blue like in real life

[Pandamobile]

@Dante

The human eye doesn't see in a discrete time interval like "frames per second".

Strobing a light becomes imperceptible after around 60 Hz or so, but the human visual sensory system is capable of sensing motion at much higher rates.

[GW212]

Where did you ever hear that? You couldn't be more wrong. Rather than paste a link, I'd rather you google it for yourself. I hear that helps one learn more. Yes, google EXACTLY what you think you should.

[Shakengandulf]

Not going to have a go at you Jay2 but if you lived close to me, i'd gladly show you the difference. :)

[FlyingFoxy]

That old chestnut again, how often are people going to spout that rubbish?

I see a difference between 60hz and 120hz, 30 and lower is choppy in comparison.. 60fps is good, 120fps is even smoother. And no it's not a placebo effect.

Go look up Linus Tech tips on YouTube, he does a blind test where it's easy for him to tell the difference what's running @ 60hz and @ 120hz, and that's a REAL refresh rate.. not that interpolated crap on TV's

[Ratty]

The difference between 30fps and 60fps is actually very noticeable. It gets less noticeable as it goes up, sure but the human eye can see a LOT more than just 30 frames per second.

[Back-to-Back]

Stop posting this nonsense. Google is your friend.

[XiSasukeUchiha]

But still damn those shot were so hot they were on fire, fire!

[sungin]

1080p and 60ps is important,get rid of game effect and candy eye=derp

[snookiegamer]

Wow!

LOL, Getting hateful messages from angry Xbox One owners!!??

I guess it's easier to blame me, than blame MS or yourselves for purchasing weaker hardware ;/

I won't apologize for telling how it is. Truth really does hurt....who knew? :)

[Evilsnuggle]

/snookiegamer
Some fanboys are apologetic telling them the truth hurts it their feelings. The xbone fanboys will soon be tagging your comment as trolling and reporting you to the mods . Because if you tell them the truth or they disagree with them you are trolling. The hardware has limited resources and developers are choosing for the highest level of graphic and not 60 fps . The xbone has less resources than the PS4 and xbone barley has enough resources to run a game in 1080p.
Yes the fanboys will yell forza 5 and sports game . Look at the sacrifices made to get forza 5 to run at 1080p 60 fps. Forza 5 no anti aliasing ,no weather effect , night time driving , pre render lighting and cardboard cut out people .Racing and sports game use the less resources . Racing game have static graphic and sports games have empty environments less resources . Xbone has no open world games running in 1080p. Developers know that pretty graphic sell games and game controls come last like frame rates . I would prefer 720p 60 fps vs 1080p 30 fps. It harder to a game to run at 720p 60 fps than at 1080p 30 fps and the game is prettiest at 1080p and Easier to sale.

jnemesh@

Agreed 100%

[Ravenor]

Weird, I guess some people care more than others. It could be that you've stated things as fact when you don't really know, that generally irritates people.

If you honestly believe the PS4 is going to be hitting 1080P while seeing improvements in visual fidelity on the same level as the 360 and PS3 did over their life cycles...you're delusional.

[0P-Tigrex]

i"d say a game that dip's below 30fps is obviously noticeable. Naughty Dog is Playstation's pristine game studio, they know how to push the graphical limits with their games.

Resolution and frame-rate DOES matter. I didn't pay $400 dollars to play mediocre last gen quality games on my new piece of hardware and neither did any other gamer that paid $500.

People who say it doesn't matter when the competitor is pushing that quality out is damage controlling and is in denial.

Ryse isn't the best looking next gen. The Last of Us: Remastered and Uncharted 4 will make it look outdated.

[jnemesh]

Part of the problem is the devs are unwilling to dial the graphics back on the X1 to achieve better resolutions and frame rates!

Look, on a PC game, if your GPU isn't cutting it, you turn off shadows or lower the detail of the textures, and BOOM, you get faster refresh rates and can run the game at higher resolutions...but, since everyone is afraid of the inevitable side-by-side comparisons, they are trying to push the same level of detail on the X1 as they are on the PS4...and you get screen tearing (Watch Dogs), stuttering frame rates in the teens (Titanfall), and other performance issues. The second MS can admit that they have a less powerful box is the second that devs can actually tune the games to work well on that console...but I am not holding my breath for that admission.

[azure1990]

What shots were fired? He said anything below 720p 30fps. No new console runs below that...

[Master-H]

Well, Dead Rising does have frame rate drops below 30.

[MasterCornholio]

" No new console runs below that..."

And hopefully they never will. The day a console runs a game below 720P means we got a problem.

[SixtyNine]

he's right tho'. And I'll say, anything above 720P and 30 frames is a luxury.

[madjedi]

Said no one who owns a half ass tolerable pc, or someone who plays games other than nintendo's.

For the rest of us 1080p is the expectation and 720p is the general absolute minimum for a next gen game.

If it goes below that without the dev going crazy with the effects( huge open world or dw's 200+ characters on screen at one time), the dev has serious coding issues.

[SixtyNine]

I guess I just said it. I have a gaming PC as well as a Wii U at the moment.

HD starts at 720P, and 30 frames is more than playable. So anything above that is a luxury.

I've played the best graphical games the PC has to offer at least 1080P and over 30 frames.

I'm still using my Radeon 5770. Just 'cause I have a samus avatar don't mean all I play is nintendo games. We're all anonymous here, don't make assumptions.

[madjedi]

Any form of entertainment is a luxury, 720p is a old standard for gaming and basically obsolete in gaming since most tv's are 1080p and computer moniters exceed that.

I prefer to have no upscaling on my games, and yeah i assumed i am used to many nintendo gamers on here.

Talking up nintendo games as the epitome of gameplay perfection or innovation, whereas both sony and microsoft only make generic cinematic action games, that are all flash and no substance. So sorry.

[pabadamus1]

I also favor effects, increased on screen assets and detail over higher frames per second. I've played console games for so long that 60fps, as buttery smooth as it may be, is not a requirement nor is it high on my list as it would pertain to overall presentation. If a trade off must be made I would prefer a sacrifice in frames rendered per second if it meant that every frame rendered was done so at the highest possible native resolution and was a graphical and visual feast.

[quenomamen]

But but all these apologetic articles on N4G tell us otherwise.

[Th3o]

Correction, anything below 720p and 30 fps is unpleasent.

Framerate > resolution.

Period.

[KontryBoy706]

720p and 30fps is actively unpleasant too

[Ghost_Nappa]

So halo 1,2,3,reach cod 4,waw,mw2,blops,mw3,blops2,bio shock infinite ps3 are "unpleseant"

[HmongAmerican]

and the frame rate battle continue. Next is VR headset battle, I better get ready for round 2.

[mediate-this]

Planting the seed i see

[UltimateUnknown]

Anything below 1080p 60FPS is actively unpleasant to me.

[larrysdirtydrawss]

ice-team,baddest mother fkers in the room,best tool/sdk makers in the game today

[Big-Bruizzer]

wow........I'm wondering how I ever made it in the 70's and 80's without 1080p and 60fps. smh, what a s--t comment.

[uth11]

lol, I often wonder the same when I see these arguments.

People gamed in 30 fps or less for year because that was the limit of SD TV's. Movies are still 24 fps, I guess they're unwatchable to some.

[madjedi]

And thankfully we are out of the stoneages in both graphics and gameplay vs the 70's and 80's.

[Ravenor]

I think he's referring to the undeniable fact that the resolution doesn't have a massive impact on the fun of a game. I'm very excited to play The Last of Us in 1080P on my Sharp Quattron TV, but it's the improved assets and other aspects that they are cleaning up I am far more excited about.

I would also like to point out the story, characters, voice acting, pacing and gameplay of The Last of Us will be the exact same experience we all had on our PS3's, 1080P 60fps will not improve all of those in any way.

[Sly-Lupin]

True, but resolution and framerate are two of the easiest things to forgive if a game is good. Dragons Dogma is sub-720p and sub-30fps, but is easily one of my favorite console RPGs.

[madjedi]

Yeah it was acceptable although the framerate chugging got annoying at times, would you consider it acceptable for a xbox1 or ps4 game to do the same.

I wouldn't not given the significant jump in hardware between last gen and this gen, launch games get a little bit of leeway.

[Sly-Lupin]

Acceptable is a tricky word. For the most part, entirely really, it's unacceptable for any game post-2007 or thereabouts.

Being forgivable is different than being acceptable. To forgive sub-720p/60fps requires a game be exceptionally good, and to be perfectly honest most games these days, especially AAA budget titles, simply aren't sufficiently good for me to be able to forgive framerate or display issues.

And all of my opinions apply to any relevant platform.

[fullmetal297]

I disagree with him when he stated that personally he doesn't find any framerate above 30 will not make a difference. A game running at 60 frames will run much smoother with lesser lag input which can be very beneficial in twitch shooters.

[BitbyDeath]

You should only see lag when it falls below 30fps.

[PersonMan]

The hardware doesn't prevent the developers from getting 60fps. You can make any game run 60fps on any hardware... it just depends on if you go for graphics or performance.

As the games get better and better graphics, you'll start to see lower frame rates and resolutions because of that.

I would take a 720p/30fps game if it's using good anti-aliasing and remains a solid 30fps, but looks like a CG movie, over a game that is 1080p/60fps that looks like a last gen port, with last-gen lighting and physics.

[potedude]

On a separate note, the ads on gamingbolt are killer. So many!

[Azzanation]

PC gamers - Anything under 1080p/60 frames is unpleasant.

[Deeke]

Love gaming bolt's interviews, always full of great info!

[Milesprowers]

I won't be playing Crash Bandicoot at 30fps

[MasterCornholio]

I can run the game on my tablet at 60FPS through a playstation emulator. Doesn't take much to run a PS1 game.

[Clumpy]

So... anything that is slightly, noticeably laggy while not being HD, is actively unpleasant?

[Killzoner99]

That is the benchmark for this gen. If you can't keep up with Sony GTFO.

[SonyNGP]

720p/30fps is the benchmark for this generation?

[zen555]

"30 to 60 fps is marginally more responsive."

The fuck?

[iHazelwood]

This guy sure sounds stuck up and cocky.

[Dynasty2021]

In 2014, with the tech available, anything under 1080p and 60 FPS is unpleasant, especially when you're used to 100+ at 120hz.