Get Even Developer Unsure About Pushing for 60fps On PS4/Xbox One: "The Feeling is a Bit Odd"

"Lead designer Wojciech Pazdur compares the feeling to watching films in 48 FPS."

[TheEnigma313]

I don't mind 30fps for most games; as long as I have 1080p.

[alexkoepp]

As long as I'm playing a good game everything else becomes irrelevant.

[GTgamer]

So your cool with choppy framrates/screen tearing and bad performance :/

[TheEnigma313]

Then why buy new consoles then? Might as well play SNES. Games with fps drops can kill a game. Look at skyrim for the ps3 before the updates.

[Mikefizzled]

Then you aren't welcome on this site. Only joking, couldn't agree more with you.

[rdgneoz3]

"Look at skyrim for the ps3 before the updates."

Besides the frame rate bug for a bit, the ever so fun "system freezes because you went into water" was fun as well, and a bit more game breaking.

[maddskull]

not all games need 60 fps some games need lower fps for better experience in a game like heavy rain and other games the dev isn't saying that he cant reach 60fps but that he doesnt want the game in 60fps

[Eonjay]

The first time I saw a movie on a 120Hz Tv I found it odd. I have no problem with 60 because I have seen it all my life... all US tv is broadcast in 59.94 (60) Hz as a standard.

[creatchee]

@GTgamer and cochise_313

That is not what alexkoepp meant and you know it. What he was saying is that good games are good games regardless of whether they run at "true" HD or 60FPS or not. The fact that you confuse "choppy framrates/screen tearing and bad performance" with "running at a designated resolution and/or framerate" and talk about pre-patch PS3 Skyrim says to me that you are talking about poor optimization rather than a game running as intended.

Also, specifically @cochise_313, comparing current and last-gen games with Super NES games is asinine. A game from THREE generations ago will wipe the floor with any Super NES game running at THE SAME resolution from a technical standpoint. People really need to quit the "why new consoles?" argument because it reveals their foolishness.

[Why o why]

Gameplay was always key....where on earth did this liberalism come from. We buy new hardware right? One of the things we expect an improvement on is the graphics be it fidelity, or fps or why bloody bother upgrading unless forced by a lack of support or something. Tired of this falacy being used as the defacto when gameplay was and always will be key....move on from that. We've all pretty much got 1080p displays now so why not expect our devices to push for the best fit... its not like by wanting this we all of a sudden dislike or disregard gameplay. Too many people I've noticed in the media using slight of hand speak downplaying better framerates and resolutions...... where the ef were they last gen......didnt sessler state 1080p should be the res only to backtrack when a specific console wasnt able to achieve this.......toss*r

Although I agree with the sentiment of gameplay over x or y, I'm not going to forget the turncoats, both media and fans, who for a whole gen lauded the minor differences in multiplats only to now scream foul now their console of choice is getting smacked by its competitor. If you wasn't one of those then THIS DOESNT APPLY TO YOU, enjoy your consoles and all of its offerings regardless of fps and resolutions.... To the hypocrites......suck it the fc*k up...its going to be a long 8 because you reap what you sow and karma truly is the itch of all itches

[ShutUpDonny]

alexkoepp said "a good game", which I'm sure it also means fully functional.

[solar]

If it's all about "the games" then why do console fanboys always bring up specs?

[Pogmathoin]

Solar, the prices one thing I guess... Less for more argument and all that spew from the last year here. Games are totally forgotten about now it seems, but I have enjoyed every game I have bought for PS4 and X1. I thought thats what it is about, but instead people are talking about seeing an X1 in stores.... Which I have yet to see in Woodbridge, Ontario.... Both are still sold out.... That does not include when a store gets new stock.... It still sells, PS4 faster of course....

[Gamer666]

I think each person has their minimums for quality...

For me...

1) No game breaking bugs
2) 30 fps
3) A solid control scheme
4) A well put together experience

Everything else is secondary... Minecraft really doesn't look different at 1080p then 480p, but the experience is well put together, there are no real game breaking bugs, it doesn't stutter on framerate, and the control scheme is solid.

[webeblazing]

60fps is a benefit in every game. if your use to playing at a high frame rate or go to it from a low frame rate you will notice everything's smoother. but i dont really care as long as the devs aim for their vision. what i dont like is how people are using it just to downplay others choice in the system they choose to play on, and the gaming media feeding the trolls just for hit. like someone said on this site its going to be a long gen.

[AliTheSnake1]

I prefer 30fps and high quality textures for non firstperson games and slow FPS games. and 60 fps with lower textures for High action FPS games, specially multiplayer. But 60 fps is better for everything.
How is skyrim game of the year edition on PS3 ? I still haven't played skyrim. Is it playable ?

[dcj0524]

Are you enjoying your atari 2600?

[Army_of_Darkness]

Frames per second, resolution, innovation, physics, graphics and gameplay all matter for every new generation... If you think that it only takes one of those things to create a next gen console then you're a fool.

60fps would look and play great on every type of game Period. This is one of the main things I envied about pc gamers.

[mochachino]

I know it's a minority opinion but I'd prefer 60fps and 720p over 30fps and 1080p any day.

Strangely, I find the smoothness makes the game clearer in motion.

[Conzul]

Myself, prefer 60 in 3rdP games.
Impartial to framerate in 1stP games.

[redwin]

As long as the game is fluid and immersive and the characters don't look like plastic dolls, I'm good. I want a fluid game with good, fluid and immersive story. As long as those are met, I can care less about the rest. I do hate playing a CG movie though, I like non liner stories .

[Mr Pumblechook]

High frame rate in film and computer games are two completely different things and I hate it when low frame rate apologists describe them as being the same thing.

Film shown at frame rates higher than 24fps can be odd because its so different to what people are used and looks more realistic. High frame rates in games has no negatives, the fluidity of animation always looks better.

[Mr Tretton]

I love movies in high frames though.

[webeblazing]

yeah a lot of people dont get this and the most that agrees only doing so to downplay the other console

[Conzul]

+ intelligent
I agree.

[GribbleGrunger]

But that isn't the point and never was the point. The reason 60fps V 30fps was relevant is because it proved one console was more powerful than the other. First it was 'you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p' and now it's '30fps is better than 60fps'. What next? 'physics are unnecessary'? 'Real time lighting doesn't look any better than baked in lighting'? Why did some of you pay for next gen consoles when clearly you didn't want anything better than last gen consoles?

[frostypants]

Are you arguing that a designer should always push for maximum FPS, even if it undermines his vision? Powerful hardware simply grants more tools to the developer/designer. How they choose to leverage it is up to them.

[GribbleGrunger]

?

But that isn't the point and never was the point. The reason 60fps V 30fps was relevant is because it proved one console was more powerful than the other. First it was 'you can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p' and now it's '30fps is better than 60fps'. What next? 'physics are unnecessary'? 'Real time lighting doesn't look any better than baked in lighting'? Why did some of you pay for next gen consoles when clearly you didn't want anything better than last gen consoles?

[MysticStrummer]

"Real time lighting doesn't look any better than baked in lighting"

We already had that one if I'm not mistaken.

[GribbleGrunger]

@MysticStrummer: Oh, yes, I believe it was with Forza 5 if I'm not mistaken. It's clearly coincidental (of course) that ALL of these arguments favour the least powerful console. I'm not saying this article hasn't got any valid points but if the X1 had run Tombraider at 60fps, none of these articles would have been written.

[frostypants]

Yep, and the title is misleading as hell. He is talking about all versions, including PC. Basically, he's describing the "soap opera" effect that viewing live content can have at high frame rates. It makes sense that a photo-realistic game would have the same issue. People are just not used to seeing realistic content on a screen at a high fps, simply due to the fact that we've been brought up watching movies in 24fps. I've never considered that the same issue could arise in video games should the graphics be realistic enough, but it makes total sense.

I guess it comes down to what the designer wants: an experience that feels like you're living it, or an experience that feels like you're watching a movie.

Interesting read...this is something that will become a more common point of contention as graphics progress. I usually can't stand GamingBolt but this was good.

[Gamer1982]

I agree as for those who bang on about choppy performance. 90% of ps3 and 360 games were 30fps and they still sold like crazy and I bet all those winging bought a fair few too. 1080p is more important as it adds more detail but tf you want both thats what PC is for..

[HighResHero]

There is a reason why so many movies run at 24fps. Maybe they should provide an option to lock their game at a framerate they consider suitable for the experience they are trying to convey.

@Are the disagrees with the fact that most movies are shot at 24fps, or are you disagreeing with the idea that the devs should provide an OPTION to lock the game at an FPS they think best adds to immersion? Try reading the article.

"Remember when The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey released in select theaters at 48 FPS (the usual cinema standard being 24 FPS) and it was quickly criticized for looking phony and just plain jarring? Odds are that The Farm 51 feels the same way about Get Even."

[Vegamyster]

Playing a game at anything less then 30 fps sucks unless it's something like Heavy Rain or Beyond Two Souls.

Watching something in 24 fps gives motion blur, the higher the Fps gets the less you see so when you're continuously changing angles in a game it's too much.

Here's an example: http://frames-per-second.ap...

[HighResHero]

I prefer higher FPS for most games.
The article is about how the devs thought a higher fps didn't work for the experience they wanted to create.
I suggested they have an option so that everyone was happy.
I guess I should be even more specific next time.
I'll check out that link though anyway.

[Vegamyster]

I agree that there should be an option, the two consoles are designed to be like PC's.

[tee_bag242]

30 FPS still sucks for those games. Even though they are movie like they don't get the same internal hz picture smoothing TV and movies get. All games benefit from high frame rates. Period.

[Palitera]

I watched the first hobbit movie twice, 24 and 48 fps.

High Frame Rate is something we are not used to, but watching the same movie later at 24 fps was a major pain. People who didn't do it have no idea about how many motion details they have lost.

The problem when it comes to games is much bigger because lower frame rates mess with the controller response.

To me, 60 fps should be the standard if it was a choice between it and a more shiny graphics.

[SniperControl]

The main reason the movie industry sticks with 24fps is the fact that it hides a multitude of things.

A lot of people complained about the CG in the Hobbit movie didnt look real, that it looked like CG.(Especially the scenic landscape pans)

Check out the link below, interesting read.

http://gizmodo.com/5969817/...

I think gaming should stick to 30/60 and above, as games are not expected to produce photo realistic graphics.

[HighResHero]

All the more reason for them to provide options instead of just locking it at one FPS.

@SniperControl:

Thanks.

I'll check that link out later.

[CrossingEden]

Games are not movies, anything less than 28 fps results in jerky movement. And creating the game on multiple framerates is not something that is suitable for a console game. When it comes to this game I very much doubt they'll be able to achieve 60fps.

[frostypants]

How does it result in "jerky movement"? I think you're confusing fps with judder.

[frostypants]

@HighResHero: You're assuming that most N4G readers have critical reasoning skills and rationality. If your comment doesn't amount to "anything less than 60fps and 1080p is unacceptable!!!", you'll get 50% disagrees at minimum.

[HighResHero]

I will have to draw some kind of illustration with cartoons next time.

[Nero1314]

Cool

[Vegamyster]

I can play a game at 30 fps but i prefer 60 because from a gameplay standard it makes it much more enjoyable.

[ABizzel1]

There's nothing wrong with 30fps, as long as it's locked, and we don't have huge dips below.

[MasterCornholio]

AC4 should be a minimum to aim for when it comes to framerate.

[esemce]

True and depentant on the type of game, generally fast paced fighters, shooters and racers benefit the most, but I would prefer 60fps on all games or the option to toggle locked 30/60 or unlocked framerate.

[tee_bag242]

The only thing wrong with locked 30fps is that it's not a locked 60fps.
30fps is very last gen. Can we start expecting more yet fellas?! Thanks

[jhoward585]

I don't mind 30fps as long as the game is good.

I don't want to play a game that's visually impressive with crappy game play.

[Qrphe]

Where did this 60fps console crowd come from? It was a huge deal back when the DC and PS2 launched but developers eventually switched off back to 30fps during that that gen until now. 60fps is certainly nice not completely necessary at all.

[xx4xx]

What????....not 60fps. Unbelievable. This is not a next gen developer. Go back to last gen. If u can't hit 60fps you are not worthy to game.

It's been 3 months into the next gen. If this developer can't hit 60fps they should sell the entire company....now.

(Does any of this sound familiar?)

[PersonMan]

It's not about "not being able to hit 60fps". It's up to the developer what they want to aim for. I'm pretty sure if they wanted to, they could hit 60fps very easily, but whether or not that's their vision is an entirely different story.

[xx4xx]

What????....not 60fps. Unbelievable. This is not a next gen developer. Go back to last gen. If u can't hit 60fps you are not worthy to game.

It's been 3 months into the next gen. If this developer can't hit 60fps they should sell the entire company....now.

(Does any of this sound familiar?)

[Eldyraen]

Sounds very familiar--possibly as it was a double post ;)

[MasterCornholio]

Yeah its something that all Xbox One fans say. According to them if a game isn't 1080P 60FPS then the game isn't worth playing. The only thing I heard from PlayStation fans that 1080P>900P>720P and the frame rate is fine as long as its a solid 30FPS more is better though.

[Eldyraen]

I would argue the opposite.

Ryse and DR3 both fall under 1080/60 by a long shot and nearly everyone on my list enjoyed them both. Neither are perfect by any means but those that enjoy them easily overlook technical weaknesses so fact is we are most likely to be forgiving regarding res and FPS discrepencies.

Of course we may have to be ;) (j/k) But honestly I'm having fun on both new consoles which is what is most important.

[webeblazing]

Lol PS fanboys downplay every platform and talk more about specs than PC gamers. If they contradict some they said about specs, performance, gameplay, than they jump to you Dont have our PS exclusives. We see this in every article about every game. Its now at the point when website know they can get hits by stroking PS fanboys ego

You do remember ryse only look great because its not rendering at 1080p, but the excuse Dont count with the order because its aspect ratio makes perfectly in 1080p, ignoring the fact that it gained benefits by not rendering in 1080p(even the devas stated this that's how it can have 4mlaa or was it msaa)

[kingduqc]

"30 fps is fine" was stupid in 1990, in 2014 is just laughable

[Qrphe]

This is when you know someone is being ridiculous. In 1990, the first 3D games ran at 15fps (yes, FIFTEEN) and that was considered amazing.

[kingduqc]

games like quake 2, first unreal, hhalf life one released in the 90's ran at 60 fps.

that's about 20 years ago consoles still can't do it properly.

[PersonMan]

kingduqc. It's not the console that dictates the frame rate. The PS3 can do 60fps, the PS2 can do 60fps and the PS1 can do 60fps. It's up to the developer if they want a simpler looking game with dialed back physics or an awesome looking game with advanced physics and destruction. THAT'S the difference. It's not about the hardware "not being able to do it properly"

[Qrphe]

And none of those games came out in 1990, congratulations your knowledge

[esemce]

Sounds like BS excuses to me 48fps movies and 60fps games are nothing alike. I love games at 60fps but hated the Hobbit running at 48fps.

[KontryBoy706]

A bit unreal? ITS A VIDEO GAME. I mean 60fps IS more "realistic" than 30fps. These guys and their "cinematic" approach to gaming is just retarded

[PersonMan]

I prefer better graphics at 30fps rather than okay graphics at 60fps.

Also, frame drops from 60fps to 30fps is much worse than frame drops from 30fps to 20fps.

[tee_bag242]

I prefer not having to choose between Ultra detail, 60fps, and 1080p.
It's obviously these new consoles are both under powered simply because we're having this discussion.

[momonaboy]

As a filmmaker I love the cinematic "LOOK" of 24fps, but as a gamer I love the responsive "FEEL" of 60fps.

It all depends on the games, if its a competitive game 60fps will give you an advantage. in a story driven game 30fps is fine and you can make the game look better.

It would be a cool experiment to see something like The Order 1886 run in a locked in 24fps, not solid, LOCKED, just to give it that film look.

[TWB]

Hah, it would be cool to have "cinematic mode" option with locked 24 FPS with some nice and detailed motion blur but not "heavy" (since films also utilize blurring of the frames, dont they ?)

[momonaboy]

yes mostly everything shot in 24fps has a shutter speed of 1/48th of a second. Which gives movement a slight motion blur, not much but it makes motion look so silky smooth.

[TWB]

SP campaign is a whole different thing than MP.

Higher framerate on MP is essential. 30 FPS on SP campaign is perfectly fine (hell, depending on the game, even 20-25 is playable) but on MP its disastrous. Thats why all next gen games should rather aim for the 60 FPS on the MP portion, especially if its competitive MP but SP experience can be 30 FPS with prettier graphics as long as its steady 30 FPS.

[jars23]

I understand the art of 24fps. But by God how can he say that 60fps feels "unreal"? Look around you, does reality look like 30fps or 24fps to you? No!

Motion pictures run at 24fps and it is an established artwork at that framerate.
Reality runs at 60fps.