MS selling old consoles as 'new' in Europe - buyers beware

Max Console reports that Fench website logic-sunrise who is usually pretty clued up on these things indicates that Microsoft's new 199 Euro's Xbox 360 packs with 2 games and 2 wireless controllers are in fact OLD machines. After opening 10 of them, they found that the machines have been converted to new and all have non-falcon motherboards, old Hitachi 47 or Samsung MS25 drives and the repair center sticker on them.

They suggest that you do not buy these packs and if you want a brand new machine, then fork out 199 Euro's for the arcade pack or 269 Euro's for the premium pack."

[Zarfoz]

http://fail-o-meter.com/tre...
And I mean it!

[Zarfoz]

Hoping that your customers happily will buy used consoles for full price shouldn't end up in any other way than a bad.

[sonarus]

Are they allowed to do that? Sell refurbished stuff without a refurbished sticker or somthing

[Fishy Fingers]

Legally I believe if you are selling anything refurbished, even if that was carried out by the manufacturer, the customer must be made aware before purchase.

[crck]

I bought a sealed 360 and I found out it was a refurb. No writing on the box that stated it was a refurb either. How did I know? There was tape residue left in the area where the tamper sticker was. On top of that residue was a new tamper sticker with 2 black dots on it. Probably to signify to the repair centers that it was a refurb. It also had a manufacture date of 08/2006. But when I shined a light into the vents I saw the extra heat sink that only old consoles that have been repaired received. There were also obvious marks on the back from someone removing the shell. That being said I got it dirt cheap and it works so I just kept it.

[DARKKNIGHT]

wow, i see now why some people get upset when ms is talked about....i dont come here often but everytime ms is brought up, its not in a positive manner.

nevertheless if noone raises counter evidence to this article by the end of the day, ------------------------------ ------.

there i hope i didnt offend anyone.

[fox02]

if this is true, then my Premium 360 would be be the last thing i'll buy that has a Microsoft logo on it.

Shame on you microsoft

[marinelife9]

Selling refurb as new is illegal in the states. I don't know maybe France has different laws.

[Silellak]

Before we all grab our torches and pitchforks, can we get someone who knows French go to http://www.logic-sunrise.co... and find the article that Maxconsole is talking about?

I ran it through Babelfish and found no such thing. All I see is an article announcing the pack.

[ukilnme]

@ fox02

I'm with you on that one and I live in the US.

[FAT MAN GO BOOM]

I agree It would be Hard to buy anything from MS without knowing if you are get a faulty system or refurbished one... Either way this is a bad thing for all gamers because if this does become the norm we will all have a problem...

[fury]

I've submitted the original source.

[Silellak]

Great, thank you!

Please resume your regularly scheduled torching and pitchforking.

[ericnellie]

That's hella shady and can you say "class action law suit" in french...someone better learn real fast =) LOL

[power of Green]

Nonesense.

PS3 fans are in top gear now with their anti MSFT smear campaign as of late due to more and more news coming out for the 360's year I suppose.

Used 360's for full price? lol.

Gimmy real proof and real sources then this post will be worthy of debate untill then its just some cooked up Sony fanboy pipe dream.

[fury]

So why shouldn't this be true? We need M$ to make an official statement on this matter. Until then we can only speculate how widespread the issue with repacked refurbished consoles is.
This is not so far off, even if you don't want to believe it.

[marinelife9]

LOL what did everyone think MS was going to do with all those broken Xbox's?

Sadly many of these refurbished units will go on to Red Ring and will be Revived, Resuscitated, and Reincarnated once again on somebody's store shelf in Pakistan.

[power of Green]

I don't believe this news. Why would MSFT hurt themselfs like that?.

My comment got deleted because somebody flamed it and it got deleted and to be fair mine was too?. What the heck. I'm sure there's plenty of posts that actually need to be deleted this thread is full of them.

EDIT below: at what cost" discrimination?. I'm not shocked by your remark/opinion/point of view.
This isn't the first time, I'v made peacefull comments in threads where there should have been no PS3 fans they flamed my comments and the mods removed my comments like I was personally fighting with the reply-er.

Its getting so bad now that I can comment in the gamerzone I'v been saving all my comment to give other members to prove my point and they compare them to the PS3 fans comments.

On toppic One would have to be crazzy to think MSFT would do this(wishfull thinking is the foundation of this post by the competition).

[The Wood]

things like that happen from time to time it seems and for no good reason to be fair to ya.

On topic If this type of thing has happened at least once then it can happen again, simple.

@marinelife9

you're right. what did people expect MS to do with all those dead shells

[dragunrising]

And THEN...I'll believe it. Hard to imagine, a refurbished console is repackaged as new. If true, I would be outraged. Until proven otherwise, this article is just flamebait. The bundled deal sounds pretty good to me despite being refurbished; BUT they need to be marked as such.

[Tmac]

I requested your comment to be deleted because you were attacking people in the Gamer Zone. Next Microsoft shot themselves in the foot. Being disorganized or whatever the reason maybe doesn't warrant them to sell used Xbox 360's in the market and sell them as new.

[FreedomReign]

After reading the source. I fail to see where MaxConsole derived the 10 number from as the original post makes no mention of the number of consoles they've opened, where they purchased the console, when they purchased the console or anything, other than:

We opened up a 'brand new' xbox console today to find a Hitachi 47 DVD drive, and a white SAV sticker.

So where are the numbers spoken of in Maxconsole? 'neuf' in the text actually refers to 'new' not 9. I guess Maxconsole can't bother fact checking, and uses bablefish to do their translating. Great look at the 'ish storm started because of a bad translation. Now I know what Kojima was talking about.

[Megaton]

I feel bad for European gamers.

Aside from higher prices and standard delays for all platforms, they get nonsense store updates and penis thumb advertisements from Sony, and refurbished 360's sold as brand new from Microsoft.

In regards solely to this story: I'm not sure if this is illegal in the European countries where this is occurring, but I know for a fact that if they tried to pull this crap in the United States, they'd get slapped in the face with a lawsuit before they even had a chance to spin this in their favor.

[mhr512]

In Austin, TX at our frys.... They had them for $199.

[Lifendz]

the first Xbox was a quality machine. My friend stepped on it by accident and it works just fine. In fact, it didn't even crack. And a standard HDD, the ability to save music to the HDD, etc. I was all pysched to get the next installation. Then...oh then....then came the 360 hardware failures. Then came almost everyone that owns the system saying they're on their second one. No thanks. And now this. Comical. 360s break at Gaming conventions. C'mon guys, you blame the consumers for the breaking 360s yet the consoles MS pulls out for gaming events break.

This is beyond sad. This is flat out incredulous. The 360 could've been the machine that put Sony away. Instead it's reduced to a machine that could've been but was held back by hardware failures and a desire to build a console that could sell at a lower price point than PS3.

[samfk]

THAT ALOT OF THE TIME THEY GET RECONDITONED ONES THIS SITE IS FAR FROM IMPARTIAL !!

[madmike]

all i read is made up sh.t about the xbox36o you would think that the ps3 is in frist place by the way they talk but there in last place with no games and been waiting and waiting and waiting for there big hitters to come out if there are any xbox30 fans in here left leave these fanboys to it and go over to xboxkings.com.ps last post bye bye fanboys

[RememberThe357]

just stop. What the hell? MS did something funked up and people call them out on it and you get pissed? Dude, (I'm assuming your a guy cuz your me is Mike) you calling some one a fanboy is a little funny when you just before say your going to xboxkings.com.ps

[marionz]

IF this is true then its pretty dodgy on microsofts part but i find it verry hard to believe ms would put referbished consoles out there and claim they are new, would you put yourself in the fireing line after just recovering from a scandle the way ms has with the RROD?

no proof on show here....so until i see somthing concrete its just another internet rumour from some wannabe site

[radzy]

they are also recycling parts and putting them in brand new xbox 360's.
the 360 was also a falcon model motherboard.
someone should investigate and sue their asses.
i like the 360 alot , but they really need to learn from sony. all microsoft products are bodgey built,and should never pass QC testing.

edit: the gpu also had fading out words and scratches.
edit2: i am from australia, which i think is regarded as europe, maybe?

[Capt CHAOS]

Australia regarded as europe???

[Condoleezza Rice]

What a way to show love to EU gamers

[green]

Microsoft what are you doing?Expect a press release soon.

[sonarus]

I doubt it stuff like this is usually swept under the rug.

[KingME]

If this true, MS needs their A$$ES kicked (HARD).

However, if this is not true and I were MS, after investigating this story I would sue the acusers into non-existence.

[fenderputty]

If this catches wind on the internet and, has any base what so ever, this won't be easily swept under the rug.

[Fishy Fingers]

If this turns out true it will not spell good news for MicroSoft, this would be extremely foolish.

Especially after them reassuring customers that the "new" models dont have the well publicized RRoD problems. Not good.

[Cyrus365]

This seems to be only for the "Bundled" version and not the standalone models.

[Vip3r]

This is beyond pathetic. Microsoft, you should be ashamed of yourselves.

[THWIP]

I SERIOUSLY doubt MS would do something that stupid...and ILLEGAL. It's one thing to send back refurbs to RROD victims; refurbing electronics is done by EVERY company. But to suggest that MS would resell them to RETAILERS, is beyond insane....ESPECIALLY with obvious proof (repair center sticker)left intact with the units.

My guess is, people are buying them, then trying to return old models in the new boxes. Most people wouldn't ELECTIVELY buy a Core; but if they already have the HDD, it's a cheap way to upgrade to new hardware. This was done quite often in the first year, prior to MS announcing the 3yr warranty and repair process.

[juuken]

...This IS MS we're talking about here.

[fenderputty]

This goes beyond intestinal fortitude. This is downright suicidal. Somehow, I doubt this is true. If, this does hold water, this would easily be one of the stupidest things MS could do.

[juuken]

You forgot illegal.

[fenderputty]

I don't know what French Law is.

[poeo]

big companies break laws all the time, and often even get punished for it. read up on corporate crime.

[vloeistof]

yeah they said that in storee the one with games hhas errors and the others not

[Relcom]

while they have diminishing sales in Europe.

[juuken]

Wow, more bad news for MS.
Three articles in a row already.

[THWIP]

...from a Sony-biased site?

[juuken]

...Damage control can be quite treacherous for your health you know.

[TruthBTold]

"8 - Um...
I SERIOUSLY doubt MS would do something that stupid...and ILLEGAL. It's one thing to send back refurbs to RROD victims; refurbing electronics is done by EVERY company. But to suggest that MS would resell them to RETAILERS, is beyond insane....ESPECIALLY with obvious proof (repair center sticker)left intact with the units.

My guess is, people are buying them, then trying to return old models in the new boxes. Most people wouldn't ELECTIVELY buy a Core; but if they already have the HDD, it's a cheap way to upgrade to new hardware. This was done quite often in the first year, prior to MS announcing the 3yr warranty and repair process. "

your defending MS and blaming Sony supporters for posting the news? Who do you think is responsable or at fault for this situation?

[dachiefsman]

doesn't news have to have a source???

this site is going down hill day by day...this should have never been approved...

EDIT: thanks for the disagree fan boys.....

[LastDance]

i know man..i come here..looking for credible...Fox quality news...instead i settle for tabloids and cheap sex...... the world today i tell ya........

fun boy.

[dachiefsman]

love the sarcasm...to bad it fails in being remotely funny...

[Stryfeno1]

You made me laugh...That is so true, this site is more like a tabloid Mag.

Here's some Bubbles.

[LastDance]

but you loved it.. and thats what counts!:)...dude chill out....Its just a gaming website.. and a great one at that... everything is giving at the readers discretion to take it as they please...... If you dont like the news.. move on thats all.

Good times.

[dachiefsman]

good point....

[fenderputty]

LMFAO ... that was funny ...

Fox has as big of a slant as this sight. Irony anyone?

[Diugu]

Yeah.. that was funny.. "fox quality news". hehehe

[andron]

I tend to think that those who call others fan boys as the real fan boys. Just as only stupid people call other people stupid.

MS are a easy target for these stories as they have made so many serious mistakes in the past...

[Tunerboy8732]

price cuts come with a downside.

[SKullDugger]

That sucks for everyone don't think they are not doing it here too.

[Kleptic]

See...just like all the 360 fanatics told everyone...the RRoD is a good thing...it gave MS millions of consoles to patch and hawk off to consumers...making about twice the profit from half the product...

everyone wins...except for the buyer...

[Fishy Fingers]

*as this is the open zone i shall respond in the style of said fanatic*

HAHAHAH!! MS didnt become one of the RICHEST companies in the WORLD!! by selling new stock!! Look at your POOR sony making tiny profits compared to the MIGHTY microsoft by selling new hardware!!!

MU-HA-HA-HA

feel dirty....

[InMyOpinion]

lol at above =) Good one!

This is very dirty indeed, if true. Even if it wasn't, buying the core version is idiotic. Premium is where it's at. I hope that the next Xbox and Playstation only comes in one, perfectly balanced version.

[Marcello]

Why i am i not all that surprised, there must millions of RROD 360`s out there so i suppose they had 2 choice`s either resell to those daft xbots who lap them up or do the same thing they did with the E.T. Atari 2600 cartridges and bury them at a secret location in the desert somewhere, i would have preffered to see the latter.

Money for old rope!!

[DarK-SilV]

Will. What do you expect from them, they lowered the price in Europe!!!!!!!

This how to get your money back

[Sir Ken Kutaragi]

Can you Re-sell FIRE damaged stock??? ;-D

[gamesR4fun]

sic hawking used 360's as new what a rip bet their counting the sales too boost up their numbers 2

M$ is the epidimy of the corporate run American government.

[Pain]

You Kids cant spin this any other way.

[Meus Renaissance]

This could just be retailer related or a small amount of them were actually not new. 10 consoles being old and sold as new, although a negative, cannot really be taken as regional or territorial issue. There is not enough evidence to suggest this is intentional from Microsoft; why would they intentionally do this? No reason at all.

[Fishy Fingers]

They only opened 10. What if they opened 10,000?

I expect we'll hear from MS pretty soon if this is false. If we don't, then, well it isn't looking good.

[Meus Renaissance]

But they didn't open 10,000 but only 10. And we weren't told how many retailers they purchased these consoles from, or what towns or cities in France. Doesn't that negate the whole assumption this is some ploy by Microsoft?

This is like smelling smoke in your house and thinking the entire city is on fire.

[kurochi]

@14.2

No, but it does raise concerns on what MS is doing (assuming the 10 boxes that was opened is credible). Whether it's just in one city/town matters if this true. While I'll give MS the benefit of the doubt that this is an isolated incident, it does give consumers ground to investigate this a little further. Let's see if MS responds to this....

[LastDance]

lol..nice annalogy mues.....im going to use that.

[lociefer]

OMG , i swear to god europe needs to sue M$ for that , i mean , fck , old consoles as new ones ? its like robbery , fck u M$ and fck ur 360

[Vip3r]

Microsoft is already in trouble with the European Union and was to pay a large fine because of anti-trust laws they broke. But this won't so them any justice at all.

[SL1M DADDY]

My goodness, is this how you reach out to your fanbase? By sticking it to them? Shame on you MS.

[Iron Man 2]

Micosoft are losing it!

This is a new low for Microsoft.

[OOG]

bah well no need for me to be making posts on news without proof...

[SUP3R]

It still doesn't make it right for them to sell it when customers are expecting new hardware in their systems.

-Edit-

Oh ok you edited your comment.

[OOG]

yea didnt see the need to start debating when there is not even background in this article for anyone to give a good debate about it

[marichuu]

Is this all over Europe or just in France? I haven't seen this bundle anywhere in Denmark.

[LevDog]

WOW.. 360 fans say Sony is the Evil Empire.. Hmmm

[eagle21]

This is the most weird thing I have ever read in the game industry. A seriously WTF moment.

[bioshock]

first what they gave consumers dead ring, now this...

[PimpHandHappy]

if it is then wtf is with that

i know for a fact they cant be referbished because thats just plain against the law. I dont care where you live.

If they have never been used and have been sitting on the shelfs like the 80GB PS3 was then this is not a bad move by MS. You need to get rid of the old stock b4 you send out new stuff.

It might be a bit underhanded to call em new but even if they where a luanch system that has never been used i would call it new.

but

you shouldnt buy it. These are part of that 33% RROD systems

[marichuu]

"These are part of that 33% RROD systems"
But hey.. there's still a 67% chance it will survive :D

[DARKKNIGHT]

ok ok ok ........i dared myself to read through some replies here.

those in favor of this practice:

ask yourselves if its right to send out old systems, given the history of older model 360's.

those that bought this are
just asking for a rma

[Ace Ventura]

LOL @ the 360 suckers. Microsft is a HORRIBLE corporation.

[Ace Ventura]

And I have a 360 myself. I like Gears and Halo. I HATE Microsft and how the talk, handle online. Just everything. Microsft sucks

[wAtdaFck]

I hate Microsoft.

But never, ever, have I expected them to stoop this low (on second thought, I kinda did).

This is confirmation.

I'm actually despising the fact that i'm typing on Windows right now.

God, I hate them.

[liquidsnake]

Well here is one who hates them as well. I would spit Billy Boy on his face if I ever saw him.

[wAtdaFck]

I'm disgusted!

>:(

[SUP3R]

It's an excellent way to get rid of old stock, no? Just ship it to Europe.

This is really low Microsoft, especially when your console is already known for shoddy hardware.

[Area_51]

This ship is sinking and sinking fast. Instead of bailing water they keep taking cheap shots at sony.

[Homicide]

This isn't a surprise. MS likes to screw their customers.

[reccodog]

Xbots, Screwing there customers if you get what im talking about ;-)

[Silverwolf]

Pretty f@cking unethical if you ask me. Selling refurbished consoles as new is nothing short of disgusting.

[S1nnerman]

That govern both the sale and advertising of products and services. The Unfair Commercial Practices Directive exists specifically to ensure that consumers are treated unfairly and makes certain actions a criminal offence. The article not with standing, I'd be amazed if MS would sell refurbished products as new without telling the purchaser. But, I've been wrong before ...

[Nykamari]

From a Famous M.C....... M$ damned homey last Year you were the Man homey what the FuvK happen to You. You got the SICKEST vendetta when it come to the CHEDDER!!!!!!!!! Please don't be True! No gamer, I mean NO GAMER deserves This Sht!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Area_51]

what would you guy name this GATE
360 gate
console gate
????

[xsteinbachx]

Classy.

[CRIMS0N_W0LF]

Europe HATES Microsoft.

As someone said EU sued M$ for the anti trust thingy.

Even if its not true, and this will run around, Europe will hate M$ even more.

[fury]

I guess M$ has to cut costs because of the RRoD issue.
Still...this is a nogo. Old consoles shouldn't be repacked and sold as new, this is truely a case of honest-to-goodness fraud...

[Jok3r]

Question is...WHY buy TEN!! of the "new" Bundle-packs and open them straight away just to "happen" to find out this? I am sorry but I have a hard time finding truth in this "story" ..It seems every godamn time Microsoft presents some killer-games/new line-up (in this case Microsofts Gamersday with Gears of War 2, Fable 2, Banjo etc etc)it appears sooo much trashtalk/FUD against Microsoft just to swing exicted potential gamers/buyers away from the Xbox360...BUT if this story is true it is of course an outrage but for the moment I take this story with a bucket of salt...

[clintos59]

Shane Kim has been having that evil little smile after all his trash talking and interviews, lol. Gotcha sucka.

[SKullDugger]

The former MS employee said that MS could start recycling repaired consoles into the market as new and we all know they have alot of them. This is a new low first a console that has a 30%+ failure rate and now this, wow MS is dumber then I thought.

[Talvish]

Logic-sunrise makes NO mention of a proper source for this story. See for yourself:

http://www.logic-sunrise.co...

Use google translate if you cannot read French.

[tk]

Recycled Paper for the manual for the recycled console to be send in a recycled coffin. Even the news seems to be recycled.

[bigcheda]

Wow...just Wow.

There is no way Msoft is this stupid

[ItsIncognito]

Honestly I am not surprised if this is actually true. MS has a history in dirty practices. Tough I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt till proven otherwise.

[Forbidden_Darkness]

even MS fanboys cant disagree that this is wrong!

[gano]

Some are trying a way to disagree. Most importantly the notion it ain't mine so i don't care is the easy route to go. For shame ms, for shame.

[Nytr8]

on principle this is sooo wrong!!!

Tut Tut Microsoft, that is below the belt.

I would be PISSED if I found out I had a warranty refurb as my supposed brand new console, man... Hulk wouldn't have sh1t on me when I went back to the store that sold it to me, lol

I wonder if, and how Microsoft will spin this one?

[gano]

We here at microsoft are not aware that refurb units are being sold as new. We make sure that our customers purchase brand new xbox 360 with
every customer we get.

[Nytr8]

I guess we just need to wait and see, if the validity of this article stands true or, is it just an attempt to belittle the 360.

I would like to hope this isn't true, as I love my 360 as I do my PS3 and Wii. And I do enjoy defending either console when they come against any un-necessary abuse, thats why Ive lost my bubbles, but what can you do.

On the other hand, if this is true it would leave me feeling cheated even though I am not a direct victim.

I guess now we wait for a verdict!!!

[poopsack]

Thats a new low.

[FLOPbox 360]

<-------------- Was it me??????????????

[jones smokey]

no wonder 360 is that cheap,...i just dont get it, any way i dont care, i got a ps3 and dont have any plans to by a 360 till gears of war 2 comes out, but this is very shocking news if it is true, ms need to come up with a statment or address the public on this, ...i can bet what they will say... "the 360 will contunie to focus on games and we do not blive blue ray wil blablablablablabla !!!! ha, ms makes me laugh, first rrod now this, WHATS NEXT this just shows that sony and nintendo are the true champs of gaming and have more expereience that ms could only dream of.

[Jdoki]

Just to play devils advocate here...

Could it be:

- A genuine mistake?
Probably not as a refurb is unlikely to be packaged at the same place an original (i.e. China or whatever for new vs local for repair)

- Intentional ploy by MS?
It is illegal to sell refurb units as brand new and I just can't see a company doing this intentionally.

- All 10 were from one shop?
We don't know the facts, but could it be that the shop employees are taking new units for themselves and selling on 2nd hand or refurbs.

- Some sort of genuine breakdown of communication/process in the distribution channel?
Nah, no chance. It MUST be a conspiracy by the EVIL Microsoft to rip off gamers. It couldn't possibly be that someone somewhere just f'd up!! /sarcasm

- Krazy Ken Kutaragi?
I think we all know this is the most likely culprit... Now he's got some time on his hands, sunning himself on the beaches of the South of France during the day. Swapping new and refurb 360's by night! :)

[DarK-SilV]

This how to get your money back

[DJ]

Send in their consoles for repairs, but this is a whole new ballgame. This is just an isolated incident, but I expect others to start checking these new systems just in case...

[pshizle]

disgusted

if m$ did this they are fu^ken retarded

and i love my xbox

[Sumadyan]

Lol.

This story has no source that can be checked. Which means someone simply pulled it out of their a$$. Seriously, anyone here really believe that someone in france or wherever went and bought 10 of those consoles specifically to check that they are refurb units?

Its illegal in the states and im sure as heck its illegal in europe, they have much better consumer laws then we do. No company and especially ms with their lawyer army would be stupid enough to do this. Its really sad that you people actually believed that.

[heyheyhey]

LOL

and to think, i was thinking about buying one

i think il wait till next year now

[KYU2130]

It doesn't matter it is illegal to sell refurbished product with out properly labeling it to inform the customer of the state of the purchased item.. it is called retail fraud.

[JokesOnYou]

So lets take a look at micro's elaborate plan to fool their unsuspecting French customers:

First a micro exec is foolish enough to even suggest the idea of re-selling refurbish consoles as new because if this intentional on micro's part obviously no one man can do it alone, things like this are discussed in strategy meetings etc.....AND then all the other smart business minded execs in the room were even more foolish to go along with his plan, risking their whole careers on a illegal plan, just to save micro some cash. Of course NOBODY was smart enough to even suggest that they would be risking losing alot more cash from potential lawsuits, "IF" caught....now this is the good part, they do all this and take this huge risk and still put a "repair center sticker" on these refurb 360's, that they *planned to sell as new. ha ha lmfao, Then of course this French site just decides to randomly buy 10 consoles, open them up the boxes and check for the motherboards because they knew there was something "fishy" going on.

ha ha this is soooo funny look at the sony folks desperately looking for some anti-micro news, even if you believe this baseless story theres a thousand likely reasons this occurred, instead of the usual n4g BS conspiracies. Reality has no place here on n4g.

meus, are you the only sensible sony fan left? wheres deep? wheres Genki? ha ha, what an embarrassingly desperate thread...too much good 360 gaming news I guess, lmfao

JOY

[Tmac]

Looks like the Jokes on YOU.

[spectyre]

Being a PS3 only owner(I plan to keep it that way)that your post makes the most sense. I love my PS3 but that doesn't mean I have to hate Microsoft or the Xbox. I'm a little embarrassed that so many of my fellow PS3 fans are willing to take this article as gospel. I for one find it hard to believe and I am reminded of other instances where someones reputation is smeared by baseless accusations. (Duke rape case ring a bell?)

It's unfortunate that when a person or company is successful that everyone assumes they did it by being underhanded. Sony and MS both have experienced this. I guess everyone likes a David and Goliath story.

As I said previously that I love my PS3, but I am convinced that it wouldn't have been as good as it is without the competition from Microsoft and the Xbox. I think we should just all relax and let this play out but I'm afraid that we will see this article used as "evidence" on every fanboy's post.

[Rims]

TYPICAL M$$$

[cr33ping_death]

damn thats f@cked up. they some poor european kid has my old 360 :) damn thats f@cked up. i wonder whos 360 i got in return for the one i sent it :).

[RAM MAGNUMS]

Microsoft, Exactly how many Xboxes have been repaired or replaced?
Simple question. Should be a simple answer.

As for the Xbutts here, How many Xboxes have you had repaired or replaced?

2 years for 5 games & its the best of all time right?

The playstation samurai has slowly risen its sword, A swift slice & a 1000 buckets of blood come pouring out of Xbutts. All Sony wants to hear is Whistlin Windpipes!

Gears, Halo 3, Mass effect, Bioshock & The other game no one remembers in all of xbox 360's time. Thats it!
Why are Xbutts proud of this?
Gears of war - Killzone 1 in disguise. Plus a chainsaw.
Halo 3 - Biggest dissapointment in gaming history
Mass Effect - Struggled with graphics & Squad A.I. was of Super Nintendo quality.
Bioshock - Plastic graphics with horror survival elements.

Yawn! Roll out the sequels with lil to no improovements! Are you excited yet?

Where was sony? Apparently they fought a quick format war with blu-ray and killed hd-dvd forcing it to be discontinued. Next on Sonys list: Games.

Ungratefullness is a curse that haunts all XBUTTS.

[gamesR4fun]

lol common m8 bioshock is the best single player fps ive ever played and i h8 ms (so glad they had a pc version)

Halo 3 was fun if not graphically impressive

but mass effect shoulda been called mass defect never seen a glitchier game on a console b4 really sad gears while not my thing wasnt awful...

Nope we shouldnt hate on the games just cause its on the other console if anything we should give our 360 gaming friends a shinny black shoulder to lean on as their box as hit its limit.

[liquidsnake]

Bioshock and Gears 1 was actually pretty good. But omg Gaylo 3? What a crappy game. Even the multiplayer is only attractive the first week. And lets not talk about Mass Defect. It could be really good, but the framedrops, texture loadings, glitches etc made it almost unplayable.

[heavyarms]

seriously they shouldnt be allowed to sell these as new. WTF is microsuk is thinking.

[JoelR]

Just so you know...
It's not a refurb if it is never sold and retrofitted prior to release from Microsoft. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are used ... just upgraded old stock being clear out.

[SKullDugger]

Its still BS even if they are the old stock retro fitted, with the hardware issues they have no business selling consoles with the old MOBO which we all know is crap...

[JoelR]

May be BS but it is legal and allows hardware to be sold that otherwise would need to be scrapped.
If they work and they are new - they can be sold as working and new.
Just because someone wanted the uber newest model and got one of these for a discount price they still recieved a X360 for a discount price.

Just rebuilt prior to leaving the factory warehouse.

[thenickel]

I hope this isn't true but if so MS just lost alot of points with the consumer.

[Cherchez La Ghost]

All electronics (and other) companies do this?!! You can have two or more products with diffrent model numbers. One came out 2 months ago and the new model came out last week. Product #1 (which is the oldest) is cheaper than Product #2 (which is the newest model). Same product (some new features) over the older one. Older models always sale "cheaper" than new. What the hell do you expect?!! I'm not a fanboy, but it kills me how much news people post like MS is the "Anti-Christ" of all companies in the world. Hell, if you want to flame, do it on all the Oil Companies for gas prices going close to $4.00 a gallon. Now who are you really mad at?!!

[FreedomReign]

If true, and I don't put this past MS. Money is all any company truly cares about.

Why not Rip the guts out of an old refurb unit, and shell out the $0.50 for a new enclosure. Then no one would be the wiser, and the whole process could be automated.

If your intent is to mislead, and ripoff then you go all the way. The reports I read on that site, claim crayon, blood, and sticker residue on the consoles from months ago at that... I thought this was a new bundle. Just how cheap do you have to be MS? 2 billion in quarterly profits isn't enough?

I'm just saying even if I didn't want to replace all the enclosures, I would still put them through a powerwash. Maybe next time eh MS?

Edit: For anyone who cares, I've read the source, it was 1 console, and no mention of date the unit was purchased, or store where it was purchased. Could easily be an isolated incident.

[FreedomReign]

That site is not making the exact same claim as the original. While they do state that the consoles with 2 controllers, and PGR4 / Halo 3 is not the falcon chipset, they do not claim they are refurbs.

Nice find though. tsk, tsk MS. Here comes the Ruler of shame.

As greedy/stupid as MS is, they do have a small armada of lawyers to advise them of the repurcussions which may strike down their evil empire. This is bad MS, refurb, or old stock either way. They should know better.

[Defectiv3_Detectiv3]

As if XBOX 360 wasn't hand me down enough!!!

[FreedomReign]

Yup I speak french, so from the article they opened '1' new = ('neuf' in french which bablefish translates to 9) console, and from that it appears they've made the claim that all the new units are in fact refurbs.

Well I need a bit more proof before I joing the witch hunt.

[cleawrence]

another website www.gamekult.com

MS shame on you!!!

the only advise i can give you is to buy a premimum

[PoSTedUP]

their selling old consoles as new ones? what a shame, they probably thought no one would find out.

[MaximusPrime]

Microsoft, you are a disgrace

[Rageanitus]

MAN OH MAN
Lawsuit, plus on top of that they would lose more respect from the population added on top of rhe RROD effect.

[bigcheda]

i think we need some more evidence before we burn msoft on this but its not looking good.

i am suprised that they would even try this...this is probably (if true) the dumbest move i have seen out of a large company

[poopface1]

not that it affects me in anyway, I have an old 360 already and it works fine. How could they sell refurbished systems if they have to return them to the people who sent them in. Unless of course they gave those who sent in their system a new one and decided to sell the old ones once they were fixed, and that doesnt make any sense. Seems llike some people are getting desprate and I dont think its microsoft.

[SKullDugger]

They don't always send you back the same console. Some times they just pull a refurb from the graveyard and ship it out and hope it does not arrive DOA!!

[howjord]

microsoft would not put themselves in this postition having lost alot of money with the RROD problems they would not want possible multiple lawsuits on there hands. That would be stupid.
All new xbox 360s come with a HDMI port anyway, so if they are truly old consoles they will have the original av socket.

[ScottEFresh]

What a pathetic company and a pathetic piece of hardware. What a terrible piece of equipment. What a brutal console. Xbox sucks.

[HunPlayer]

i know 100% that in estern europe it happens all the time.

[buddyro]

sad that a company has to refurbish there console and sell it as new I guess they do that so in a way the 15 million sold is true but it's kind of false though.

[Hagaf22]

wow, buying a recycled rrod 360, talk about taking the shaft.

[LinuxGuru]

This is what I looked like when I saw this news...

[sandip787]

shame on you MS

[gavrila]

Anyone who believe this story is a retard ! Maybe they are old models, but they are not repaired consoles. Jez, you people are so easy to manipulate !

[foozen]

I'm so angry by this news! To steal the early lead Microsoft brought out there flawed Xbox with power cable issues and the heat issues. We are now faced with Microsoft selling refurb boxes. Its just a disgraceful and appalling way to act for a big business. It shows desperation when there is no need for it. This media fabricate console war is not what anyone wants as this is the net result.

I own a PS3 and have owned the PS line since its start and very happy with that choice and path. Sony took the hit on both fronts with high price and delayed console, but look at the net result. A console with all the features needed built in and a price point that is come down were as the Xbox comes at cheap price point yes, but half the features which has started to limit games (GTA) and the risk of not working. The extras needed for the xbox cost a fortune (HDD)

MS didn't need to do this, it shows bad and desperate management from them but clearly some good media spin. To eager and focused on trying to beat Sony when there was no need too.

[immarriedtoafatchick]

Microsoft is happy with their dumb steroided white customers cuz they spend so much on games for no reason and they are a stupid bunch of people. i bought a ps3 to play games and know my system wont break and the good games are fast paced games. when i played halo i was like wow its so fooking slow, dunno what is exciting about a 1mph guy who walks with a gun in a full colored suit super exciting! and no exclusive on the 360 is a hardcore game, those games are so easy a 6yr old white american kid can play them, i wanna see someone own balls in resistance or UT3(the only next 360 game that will be hardcore) ive seen people that own specific consoles complain how much harder it is on PSN to play people get owned on COD4 i own everyone on the xbox360 at my friends house i showed him myself that the people on the 360 cant play for sh!t. but then again i also own people on the ps3 so its like blahhh :D but my friend doesnt hold his upper rankings in a ps3 cod4 match so i guess that proves my point hehe. anyways games that are made to look good, solid AI, fun gameplay all innovative, is on the ps3 everything on the 360 is a typical bland of a sped up 8month creation time just to make money off of dumb people who do not buy working products so its a sweet deal for MS.

[G4drake]

oh microsoft, no word is need to say

[Boink]

nowhere in here did I see it report that they are selling "refurbished" consoles as new.

they are selling new consoles with older hardware. I still think it's a stupid idea, as that hardware has a high failure rate, but what they are doing is not illegal.

it's no more illegal than me buying a brand new PC with a pentium 3 processor in it. it's old technology, but not illegal.

pls stop replacing "old" with "refurbished", very different things.

still stupid of them though...

[Mr_Potato_]

I'm French and I can tell you the article says they sell refurbished consoles instead of new ones... It seems true considering there are now many reports on the same subject.

Maybe they do that in France because we have no class actions ?

[JoelR]

krakdol

as long as they refurb the units before they arrive at retail law would probably say that they are to be treated as new units.

but they still would be refurb internally.

[Enigma_2099]

If Sony or Nintendo are in any type of positive upswing, you guys go above and beyond to find anything remoteley negative to say about it.... like saying it's not a true next gen console, or that the format it backed is slowly dying a horrible death...

... but someone says something remotely negative about the 360... and actually cites a source for the info, it doesn't matter... you'll still try to spin it faster than the Tazmanian Devil...

[madestar]

M$ is sad..... period

[The Preacher]

I mean MS is a billion dollar corporation, why go that low.
It not like they need the money, unless there is proof I myself cannot believe it.

Preach on gamers.

Peace

[DARKKNIGHT]

wow no evidence to counter this story? its been 24 hours now.....

surely microsofts damage control division have been scouring the globe and diggin in their pockets for a way to twist this into a positive PR episode.

Sadly, no. just another bulletpoint to the long list of blunders that surround a certain companys attempt at console domination.

the mere fact that this goit uncovered worries me....what else is in store regarding the 360? whats gonna be spilled the next time someone does not receive some hush money?

Its a sad day in gaming. the end of gaming as we know it.

Good thing SONY makes PLAYSTATIONS.

[thehitman]

No wonder they could afford a price cut they trying to get rid of all their old 360s that broke down lol dump it in EU and not US good job MS.

[Mr_Potato_]

I'm French and I own a PS3. I wanted to buy a X360 too but after reading that article and knowing all the problems about RROD, I'm not sure anymore... :(

Don't ask why people hate microsoft so much :
- you pay for everything (even peer 2 peer with no server, or a crappy 20 Gb HD...)
- ads everywhere
- refurbished consoles sold as new ones
- crappy customer service
- crappy Operating Systems...
- crappy hardware...

I WANT to buy a X360 (because I'm a gamer, and I like both consoles), but come on, why do you do all these things MS... Talk about self destruction...

[gavrila]

Then go buy a PS 3 and stop crying ! You are sad !