Microsoft And Machinima Have Officially Commented On XB1M13

iGR: "As of now, you're likely aware that we broke news over the weekend of a new promotion to promote Xbox One on Youtube's Machinima channel. At first, we thought it was business as usual, but later details proved that the dealings were somewhat covert in nature.

When we reached out to Microsoft for further clarification on the matter, we were given a joint statement from Microsoft and Machinima,"

[xHeavYx]

It's not a "typical marketing partnership" when you hide the fact that you pay to people to say neutral or good things about your console. They are acting like they didn't know what Machinima was doing? Yeah right, Machinima probably got a good chunk of $$$ to take the blame.

"confidentiality relates to the agreements themselves, not the existence of the promotion"
Sure, whatever sounds better

[NewMonday]

they mean typical for them..

MS: yes we've been doing this a while, so what?

[dedicatedtogamers]

Yep.

This is a normal response for Microsoft.

"We got caught. Watch my left hand as I make...this...disappear! Poof! Controversy gone, please?"

Maybe this is what Major Nelson meant when he wanted the internet hate to go away (because we'll pay you a few shekels to make the hate go away...)

[guitarded77]

It's out in the open now, but did any of us really think this stuff wasn't going on in the background?

I'm also sure they have plants online that go to the defense of their respective product in comment sections on forums just like this. I see comments from some that there is no other explanation for.

The funny thing is those who said this crap was going on were labeled conspiracy theorists or paranoid.

Go look at some major sites, and see how they are not critical of some, but very critical of others. They are paid, paid, paid.

[dedicatedtogamers]

The unfortunate thing for genuine Xbox One fans is that this is going to turn people against you (not that Xbox One fans get a lot of love on the internet anyway...)

This bribing, combined with Microsoft's confirmed forum-astroturfing during and after the X1 reveal, just makes everyone else suspect of people who are pro-X1. Whether it's right or not, whenever someone seems to be a bit TOO pro-Microsoft, it is naturally going to bring up the thought "are they paid"?

Instead of saying "Sony Too™" or "What's the big deal?", Xbox fans should be even MORE outraged since this is going to turn the gaming community against any Let's Play-ers or commenter or...anyone who says positive things about X1.

[Death]

How is it no one took issue when Sony passed out PS4 consoles and other swag to journalists at their New York event prior to the PS4's launch? Some of you think the possibility at getting $3 is worth more than a $400 console not to mention the other stuff journalists walked away with.

[Charybdis]

Typical as they see it as standard practice.
"The Xbox team does not review any specific content or provide feedback on content."
-So guess this is done by Machinima

"Any confidentiality provisions, terms or other guidelines are standard documents provided by Machinima." -Machinima should make these standard documents public

"For clarity, confidentiality relates to the agreements themselves, not the existence of the promotion"
-make it clear its advertised promotion, especially for people who might not recognise its advertisement purposes

[xHeavYx]

@Death
You forgot to add Sony Too™
There is a difference between giving away consoles and forcing a contract that says "you can't talk negatively about our console/games"
You'll understand once you take your blinds off

[bryam1982]

poor Microsoft :-( things are really that bad that you have to pay for people to say they like xbone thats sad

[Kayant]

@Death

"How is it no one took issue when Sony passed out PS4 consoles and other swag to journalists at their New York event prior to the PS4's launch?" ---> Am pretty sure that was public knowledge -> http://www.lazygamer.net/24...

And also * Pre-release product issued to IGN by Sony for review* - ScottLowe.

Not to add that IGN said negative stuff about it in their review ---> http://uk.ign.com/articles/...

Difference here is this is supposed to be completely hidden from the public so no it's no way near the same thing.

"Honestly, how many people are out there selling their integrity for a shot at $3?" ---> You would be surprised ---> http://neogaf.com/forum/sho...

[Death]

@xHeavy,
Safe to say you were never a journalist or reviewer. You obviously have no idea how the system works. If you are objective about a product it's extremely difficult ot lose support from a publisher or manufacturer. Contrary to what many believe, they aren't trying to buy positive reviews. If you do decide to go off the deep end, that support gets yanked very quickly. With that said, if you are one of the new gen of "journalists" walking away with a substatial amount of product, how likely are you to lean towards a positive review?

Compare that to the $3 per thousand view Machinima offer that capped at $3750 total. The restriction according to the email is the review had to be positive or neutral. Why would Microsoft pay someone to bash their product? How many negative reports are out there? You really are making an issue of a non-issue.

Honestly, how many people are out there selling their integrity for a shot at $3?

[TheGreatAndPowerful]

"Watch my left hand as I make...this...disappear! Poof!"

lolol

[DragonKnight]

@Death: Did you seriously ask how it's different?

I'll explain how it's different. One: That event was by invite only, not every journalist was invited. Two: Sony didn't hand out consoles for review to these journalists before this event, and plenty of them were b*tching about that very fact. Three: Once given the console for review, the journalists were free to review it as they wished, wherever they wished, and were NOT made to sign a contract.

What's happening with the MS stealth marketing is that MS were paying youtubers to say positive or neutral things about the Xbox One for money. And not only were they doing that, which shows fear in that their product must not be able to sell on its own merits, but they included an NDA in the contract agreement which is ILLEGAL per FTC regulations.

That's how it's different.

Death 2: They aren't trying to buy positive reviews? That's exactly what they did do. They paid people to say neutral or positive things about the Xbox One. How is that not actually paying for people to say good things about the Xbox One?

Here's my question to you. Why did Microsoft have to launch this stealth marketing campaign at all?

@Jokes: No way, you're sticking up for Microsoft? Wow, that's totally not at all expected and normal for you regardless of how illegal the move Microsoft makes is.

[JokesOnYou]

lol its youtube paid or not it's advertising, at the end of the day nobody is harmed here. This is not a independent journalist being paid to make inaccurate statements or give a professional positive paid review. If you see a pro xbox vid on youtube and it influences your purchase it's no different then a ad on tv that influences your purchase....smart consumers always research multiple sources for any costly electronics purchase, stupid consumers make kneejerk buying decisions because some guy on youtube, on a forum, on a blogg or some commercial said it was the best thing since sliced bread.

I do think micro should make it public that the youtube marketing is paid in this case for full diclosure/ to be completely transparent but again its not a nefarious illegal trick. I work in a company where I know our sales dept pay actual customers who gave positive feedback to write a favorable review. Its not like the company is paying them to say something they dont believe or tell them what to say...they simply are paying them to actually write their opinion so the company can use it to generate more interest/sales ads for its products. This is a business so I say Micro should continue paying anybody who WANTS to advertise for them for money, its always been perfectly legal to do so. If you happen to buy anything ONLY because a guy on youtube channel said it's great then its on you.

[Phoenix76]

@NewMonday

MS: yes we've been doing this a while, so what?

You forgot to add, #DealWithIt!

[TheGreatAndPowerful]

bwahahhahaha I faking love this isht. Awesome start to a new gen. Sony outselling MS 2:1 just about every market and now this. :D Best gen ever.

[GameNameFame]

And I bet xbox fanboys comes in and say "everyone else does it i bet"

Lol. Xbox apologists.

EDIT @Jokesonyou

OMG you took the apologist level to another level.

Jokesonyou Apologist Lvl999999999

LOL. Are you that desperate? No. What your company doing is not "ok" either. They are not happening to just somehow give money to people who gave positive review. They are creating incentive cash payout for positive review. People would be reviewing would now purposely be reviewing positive for money. it is called bribe. Your company would be just cleverly blurring the line.

There was an idiot who said that he was going to pick that contractor anyways. He just happen to receive bribe as bonus. LOLOL.

[Fez]

@Death and @JokesOnYou

You guys are usually a breath of fresh air on this site; providing opposing views to the majority. But you're losing a lot of credibility by sticking up for MS with this.

If you guys are master trolls, I can respect that. But honestly defending MS on this I can't understand..

[guitarded77]

Just found these screenshots on Reddit. Screens show internal Machinima emails to partners about making money promoting various things.

http://i.imgur.com/5JAN558....

http://i.imgur.com/N1w7sX1....

http://i.imgur.com/jUNKIHJ....

Here is the full write-up from the source.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Gam...

[Kryptix]

@JokesOnYou

"its youtube paid or not it's advertising" lol Always taking the Microsoft apologist stand, do they pay you, too?

Here's what the agreement states:

http://pastebin.com/vec6vjv...

"You may not say anything negative or disparaging about Machinima, Xbox One or any of its Games in your Campaign Video"

"You agree to keep confidential at all times all matters relating to this Agreement, including, without limitation, the Promotional Requirements, and the CPM Compensation, listed above."

It's not going to clearly be advertising because of that confidentiality part. Anybody including Machinima could of signed this contract, make a 30 second review of a game with zero negatives and you wouldn't know it was because of this contract.

...Since they can't say nothing negative, reviews will be extremely biased that you could end up buying an Xbox One game with many flaws and you can't blame Microsoft because you wouldn't know it was them that made the reviewers hide them.

It's business but it's shady business which further proves that Polygon might have been paid to be biased against Sony a long time ago with that $750,000 advertisement deal. Dishonesty isn't going to get people to buy their product once the bullshit gets exposed.

[UltraNova]

I hate this.

I've just unsubscribed from Machinima. If want a single-sided view of things I ll go buy the official Xbox or PlayStation magazine (even them would state some negatives for a game!!) not this under the table manipulating bullshit.

[Blachek]

How is it that none of these Sony fanboys understand how a product endorsement works?

JokesOnYou seems to be the only person with intelligent insight.

In traditional media endorsement are used every day,

Mike Rowe puts his name next to Ford...
Betty White puts her name next to Snickers...
RG3 puts his name next to Subway...
Ron Jeremy & Jimmy Johnson endorse ExtenZe...
Lance Armstron endorsed Michelob Ultra...

Do you think that Subway is how RG3 made himself into a great athlete, or ExtenZe is what gave Ron Jeremy the distance in his glamorous career? They were paid to say something positive about a product, and put their name to it.

I work for a company where I get my on-air radio personalities extra money to endorse local businesses. This happens everyday, and is accepted.

People listen to those they can associate with, and when somebody puts their name to a product or service they are compensated.

Microsoft did this with popular uploaders on YouTube, this isn't out of the realm of normal.

Quit reaching, advertising is everywhere, get outside once in a while.

[DonMingos]

Sometimes I wonder if some N4G members (like jokesonyou, Death, nukeitall, etc) aren't paid also by M$ as part of this strategy.

And even some sites like Polygon, Kotaku, Gametrailers...

It really makes me question that...

[zaanan]

Disclaimer: I have not read TFA. That said, I have no trouble believing Microsoft was indeed unethical in this situation. Why? Because they have a storied history of bullying folks- competitors, vendors, manufacturers, and even customers in some cases. So even if they did no wrong here, their track record makes it easy to believe they did. If they are interested in erasing that negative image, they need to be completely open and transparent in everything they do. Obviously they are not, so their shady reputation continues.

Note: I am not absolving machinima, just saying Microsoft did themselves no favors by acting in a way that can easily be construed as shady.

[dedicatedtogamers]

@ Blachek

Surely, for someone who works in the industry, you're aware that it is illegal to accept material compensation for your tacit endorsement and not announce that you're being endorsed, right?

[Blachek]

@ Dedicatedtogamers

"Celebrity endorsers also are addressed in the revised Guides. While the 1980 Guides did not explicitly state that endorsers as well as advertisers could be liable under the FTC Act for statements they make in an endorsement, the revised Guides reflect Commission case law and clearly state that both advertisers and endorsers may be liable for false or unsubstantiated claims made in an endorsement – or for failure to disclose material connections between the advertiser and endorsers. The revised Guides also make it clear that celebrities have a duty to disclose their relationships with advertisers when making endorsements outside the context of traditional ads, such as on talk shows or in social media.

The Guides are administrative interpretations of the law intended to help advertisers comply with the Federal Trade Commission Act; they are not binding law themselves. In any law enforcement action challenging the allegedly deceptive use of testimonials or endorsements, the Commission would have the burden of proving that the challenged conduct violates the FTC Act."

^ ftc dot gov

I'm not saying that Microsoft did is praise worthy, but having not watched the videos in question and reading only the article itself with the comments, I can see that there is a strong bias against the act itself.

[HardcoreGamer]

i really hate Microsoft, its dishonesty that pees me off.

who would want to be constantly lied to and slander and deception. eff that

[wynams]

agree and voting with my wallet.

Shiny new PS4 to go along with my PS plus thru 2017, PS Vita and PS3 systems.

I show sony them monies

[jackanderson1985]

you realise Sony has a history of astroturfing (it's what this MS/Machinima is all about) from everything from their playstation devision (PSP on youtube with that awful "all i want for xmas is a psp) their movie divisions, their tv divisions, their phones divisions... practically every divison they have they've done some of sort of astroturfing.

hell just google astroturfing and you'll find a long list of companies who've engaged in similar practices to MS/Machinima

as House always said Everybody Lies

[DragonKnight]

Don't forget you have to add SonyToo™

[scott182]

^^
Making a viral advertisement with someone singing about a psp for christmas is not the same thing as paying reviewers to play their games and post "positive or neutral comments"

The viral ad for the PSP was not a review of a product! Microsoft paid people to have certain opinions of a product.

Not the same thing at all.

[Kryptix]

@jackanderson

Right, since everyone does it, let Microsoft have a pass.

Sounds the same as, "since the NSA already spies through your smartphone and webcam, let Microsoft have a pass with the Kinect."

lol You Xbots never change.

Of course corporations and companies have been astroturfing since forever but this Machinima thing opens the doors for everyone to participate and then only have positive opinions to say for the love of money. Microsoft exactly knows that greed and money controls the masses so how about throwing some money to feed the sheep. It's an intelligent move but one that I'm against since this could be the beginning of corporations buying out pretty much everybody to falsely review their hardware and software.

Stop being blind for once and know how this can effect the future. Now we have to careful to who's being honest and who's not.

[H0RSE]

I put more blame on those who participated, not MS. Going with what is stated above about the agreement:

"You may not say anything negative or disparaging about Machinima, Xbox One or any of its Games in your Campaign Video."

"You agree to keep confidential at all times all matters relating to this Agreement, including, without limitation, the Promotional Requirements, and the CPM Compensation, listed above."

- Seeing the obvious shady nature of these terms, if a person where to read them and still agree to them, who is really at fault here? It's like rigging a boxing match. People approach the fighter with a plan, and tell him he will make a lot of money if he throws the fight. He agrees, but gets caught, the difference being that in this case, the boxer is the one in the spotlight taking all the blame, not the people who set the whole thing up.

[jgrigs09]

Why can't y'all accept the fact ALL companies get their hands dirty. Not just Microsoft. Do I agree with it? No. Just stating that all companies do this

[xHeavYx]

Yeah, let's forget about a company paying people to express what may not be their real opinion /s

[jgrigs09]

Hey look I'm getting disagrees for absolutely nothing. I didn't defend them I simply said all companies are dirty. Typical n4g it you don't bash Microsoft you get disagrees

[sAVAge_bEaST]

Right, some company's sway us with free games, support, and the most powerful hardware at the cheapest price,. While others would like to use that time and money, promoting deceptive practices.

[dedicatedtogamers]

Sony Too™

[TheoreticalParticle]

You're getting disagrees because, no, not all companies do this.

All companies DO "get their hands dirty" with questionable advertisement.

However, I've yet to see Nintendo, Sony, or even freaking EA pay a content delivery network to pay their users to stealth advertise a product for them. It's the shadiness of the particular act that's got everyone pissed off, and you're trying to sweep it under the rug, hence the disagrees.

[MysticStrummer]

"I simply said all companies are dirty. Typical n4g it you don't bash Microsoft you get disagrees"

Anyone can disagree that all companies are dirty, because they aren't. Bashing MS doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it.

[BG11579]

Because they didn't respect the FTC rules?

[Death]

Please get a clue as to how marketing works. I can't remember the last time any company paid someone to slam their product. If you hate Microsoft, $3 will not change your mind. If you hate Microsoft, $3 won't sway your opinion. Why would Microsoft pay someone like xHeavyx to bash their product? If the clause was "just mention the Xbox One for 30 seconds", anyone with an agenda could spend the time bitching about anything and Microsoft would pay them.

Lets keep avoiding the fact that both companies give out hundreds if not thousands of dollars in "free" stuff to reviewers. Those PS4's handed out in New York were hell of a lot more incentive to say nice things than $3 per 1000 hits. As a journalist, say something negative about a product and you risk losing "support" from the manufacturer or publisher. This happens daily and you guys are upset over $3?

[TheGreatAndPowerful]

Yes we know that many companies do this kind of thing but it still doesn't make it right and just because some/most do it doesn't change anything. it's wrong and when you get caught you deserve all the sh*t that comes with it.

[DragonKnight]

SonyToo™

@Death: It wasn't just $3. It was $3 per 1000 views. Some of the channels that were participating in this receive millions of views.

So $3 per 1000 views and 100K views is $300. 1 million views is $3000. How many gaming journalists who do that professionally make $3000 in a month, let alone one review, hmmm?

[Good-Smurf]

At least others tried to wash their hands. While Microsoft' hands stays dirty and they happy with it...until their shit hits the fan.

[Baka-akaB]

You get disagrees because posts like that arent usually about making it known "others do it too" . Not only is it a silly logic that can be applied to any crime ... it's a mind trick to lessen the fault and distract some of the blame and attention elsewhere .

Someone else is doing it too ? Well let us care and deal with the one actually found guilty , THEN we'll move elsewhere at the right time when needed ... not when it's convenient for the guilty party and its cheerleaders

[PSjesus]

M$:yo Machinima thugs do us a favor,use your sheeps to market our plastic box and bash other companies products and we well rain you with cash,also we don't care about the shitty methods you are gonna use

[T2]

I'm not sure if this deserves outrage or its just another pathetic attempt from Microsoft and deserves pity... Astroturfing too, so sad and somewhat hilarious I pray dudes like jokesonyou and greenpowerz were paid because they do it sooooo poorly that it's almost laughable... It's actually worse than no advertising at all to read and watch the blatant moneyhats and lying...
#xb1m13 - sellouts

[FGHFGHFGH]

Didn't they make some kind of "mistake" when they did a comparison of ps4 vs xbox1 version of call of duty or battlefield that made the xbox version look better? They said they lower res lower framerate version was the better looking one.

[Mr Pumblechook]

What a grubby, dirty business tactic.

[mediate-this]

Isnt that what marketing is? You pay people to advertise your product. Isnt that what sony does??

[showtimefolks]

this is MS after all and the way they announced and handled xbox one early on is the reason i am not surprised one bit. There is a reason american gaming media more forgiven of xbox brand than PS. No wonder why year after year MS showed nothing at E3 for last 3-4 years yet somehow american gaming media made us believe MS had the best showing/conference

keep selling PS4's sony keep it up nothing can stop the revolution. PS4 is a console made by developer feedback for gamers by gamers

any respect i had for MS is lost

[kopicha]

M$ : How can you leak those details?
Mac : We didnt do that, guess one of the partner did.
M$ : Well fix it then!
Mac : Erm... how?
M$ : I don't care how, here take these money. Settle it
Mac : "release official comment and take blame"
M$ : Ok now everything have been redirected to Mac, let's release an official comment and stay innocent!

[Azzanation]

Like you know what happened. Innocent until proven guilty. MS are a big company, any one of there employees could have gone out of there way to pay Mach to praise the system under there own companies nose. Don't blame the company blame the individuals that are guilty.

[Blaze929]

I don't really see, once again, why Microsoft is taking heat for this. Lol at people calling this "illegal" - all these expert lawyers.

What's funny is that Machinima has literally been doing promotions like this for years. EA (Need for Speed Most Wanted 2012), Pax, E3, tpostmag, birchbox.

http://i.imgur.com/5JAN558....

Why is it when Microsoft steps in it's all a sudden a problem? I'm sure Microsoft paid Machinima to get their affiliates to participate in a promotion. Whatever the promotion may be.

These are Machinima's partners, their contracts, their network. Microsoft can't regulate.

If I pay you to advertise my mixtape on your network, it's up to you to decide how. All I can do is make sure the promotion actually ran and pay what I owe in the end/beginning. I can't TELL YOU how to promote it on YOUR network for members I have no control over. I mean ffs it's a MACHINIMA contract. Not Microsoft contract.

So is it not Machinima's fault for not clarifying what their partners need to do?

Or we just assume Microsoft is behind everything as always? The assumption is Microsoft paid/made Machinima take the blame? lmao - conspiracy theorist and hollywood screenwriters couldn't even come up with the tales you all spread as facts.

Like I said, there are not Microsoft's partners. They do not directly talk nor do they get paid from Microsoft. As far as Machinima partners go, they have no idea Microsoft was even involved. Machinima's partners, Machinima's promotion, Machinima's guidelines.

the logic here is as if Microsoft is the government telling you 9/11 wasn't an inside job but you all still go, NOPE! NUH UH!

I want to participate in "SONY TOO" - seems fun

http://www.foxnews.com/stor...

"LOS ANGELES - A judge approved an agreement calling for Sony Pictures Entertainment to pay $1.5 million to settle a class-action lawsuit accusing the studio of citing a fake movie critic in ads for several films, an attorney said Tuesday."

yet, the real "illegal" ones, Microsoft, will not see a day in court over this :)

[ITPython]

MS better hope that their plans to sabotage PS4 sales by paying people to plant negative hardware failure "verified" reviews on Amazon doesn't come to light. Otherwise they will be up s**t creek.

Although I'm sure they gave a 'little bit' extra to those folks recently to keep them quite during this current Tubegate scandal.

But I hope one of them has the ethic backbone to stand up and speak out. MS's dirty dealings need to be exposed, and this YouTube thing is only the tip of the iceberg.

[AndrewLB]

The exchange of money for favorable product exposure is called Advertising. Sony does the exact same thing. The problem in this case is that Machinima had a conflict of interest because they got greedy. Microsoft has very good lawyers and if they had any idea what Machinima was up to, they would not have allowed it to go forward.

Anyone recall how Sony restricted access to only a select few friendly journalists for launch reviews, where Sony gave each of them a custom engraved PS4, some games, and probably a check to soothe any unforeseen headaches the reviewer may get if there were any problems.

[5eriously]

My concern is not only this issue as we all know (including the bots) how M$ are criminally inclined to mislead their consumers. I can create a long list but here is just a few coming to mind:

The machinima debacle (latest)
DRM (reveal)
Kinect onways online (reveal)
Resolution saga (Since reveal)
The cloud multiplying Xbone power (was it 8 times)
Games playing high res and framerates on PC fronted as XBone performance then games degraded on release (Forza5)
The lack of long term support for consoles starving consumers of games for their investment (360) and tranfering 360 games to XBone.
Then last but not least the RROD saga

Who can trust these giant corporate and criminal scammers any more??

On opening I said my concern is not only the Machinima saga! IS this only the TIP OF THE ICEBERG?

What else are M$ lying about?

I do not think for two picoseconds that M$ was not the main culprit was behind all this and it was Machinima's doing!

M$. thanks for making up my mind. NO M$ console, hardware or gaming will ever be bought by me and my close family in future! Thus NO eXBone for me, ever!

[AnotherGamer117]

@Blachek

You have a very one sided view. All of your examples are obvious advertisements - they are on TV. Everyone knows they are being compensated. You also said a very important word - endorse. They are obvious endorsements.

In a lot of the endorsement videos (where they might be a question) have disclaimers on the TV - i.e. paid actors or spokesperson.

There are no such disclaimers on these videos. If they were on the videos then nobody could complaign. The simple fact that is seems somebody (i.e. MS and/or Machinima) tried to hide it - makes it a problem.

[DJustinUNCHAIND]

This is such a non-story.

[jonboi24]

Actually its a big story and a bigger one if FTC and ASA get involved.....

[jackanderson1985]

except now they've the perfect defence as MS will say we didn't include that and never wanted it included and Machinima will say it related to confidentiality of the agreement as a whole not the promotion itself and then both the FTC and ASA will continue to do nothing because these things are never followed up on unless it's a major scandal for major money... 3750 is not major money

[MysticStrummer]

A story about illegal business practices is never a non-story. From the joint statement it looks like Machinima will take the bullet unless further info comes to light.

[Gh05t]

Where exactly is the "illegal" business practice?

MS paid Machinima
Machinima paid affiliates
Affiliates stated they were getting paid by machinima.

Affiliates were told not to discuss the agreement and not to state they were being paid by MS (which they were not directly).

Sounds pretty standard to me.

[DragonKnight]

"Affiliates were told not to discuss the agreement and not to state they were being paid by MS (which they were not directly)."

That's where the illegal business practice is. It is a requirement that paid endorsements have full disclosure that they are paid endorsements.

[MysticStrummer]

If you read the agreement, they were forbidden to disclose payment at all. That is not standard. That is illegal.

[Volkama]

It is illegal according to the n4g comment lawyers, but in reality I imagine MS have dotted their i and crossed their t.

Not saying I'm on board with the paid coverage we have to decipher in an attempt to establish facts, but the gaming media is totally rife with it from all parties. Not like all these reviews are letting us know they're playing their free games on their free engraved consoles with their free merchandise before they give us those glowing review scores is it?

[MysticStrummer]

@Volkama - I agree with you about reviews, but it's not N4G law experts that are making this a story or, if it is how it appears to be, making it illegal. I'm sure we'll find out more about it in the coming days. MS appears to be in the clear already, since the joint statement makes it sound like Machinima was in the wrong if anyone was.

[JasonKCK]

"This is such a non-story"

This is only news on N4G. It's meant to rile the anti MS fanboys so can have a reason to keep complaining about something they say they don't care for.

[jonboi24]

when you have main stream media reporting this like the gaurdian, huffington post, and wired uk reporting on this then its not a "non-story". when you cross the line and start breaking rules then people will notice.

[MysticStrummer]

You either didn't read or didn't comprehend the story.

[JasonKCK]

Maybe you should take your own advice and read it again.

Seriously, actually read it.

[MysticStrummer]

I did, along with clicking on the links to all the past information. What was going on there is illegal, either on Machinima's part, Microsoft's part, or both. From the joint statement they gave, Machinima will take the heat, but the fact remains it was illegal to forbid disclosure of a paid endorsement.

Saying it's only news on N4G is enough to disagree with you by the way.

[Hicken]

"This is only news on N4G."

That's why a dozen other sites are reporting it, right?

It's simply amazing how you guys can literally reject reality for Microsoft's sake. It's both disturbing and fascinating.

[GribbleGrunger]

"This is only news on N4G."

I'm going to square this one for you because I'm getting a little sick of the MasterX mentality sneaking onto this site. Are you ready?

N4G is an aggregate site and any news posted here is from OTHER SITES! In other words, it's everywhere BUT on this site until someone reads it on ANOTHER site and posts it here.

[kickerz]

It is a good story...if you have never ever read any story ever. Otherwise this is just boring as hell crap to make the Sony ponies a little bit excited... You know I'm right.

[mrpsychoticstalker]

Excellent communications skills, typical marketing partnership and strategy. Used by thousands of companies.

[Ricegum]

No.

[True_Samurai]

No? that's all you have to say. No detail explanation on why you disagree? you must don't know how some companies handle marketing. Take a business class and you'll understand that this is not the first time a company has done this

[DragonKnight]

"Take a business class..."

Says someone who probably doesn't take a business class.

[starchild]

Don't try to talk sense to insanely irrational Sony fanboys. All they know how to do is hate, twist facts, ignore bits of inconvenient evidence, and just generally bash anything not-Sony. They are delusional if they think that Sony doesn't do the same kinds of things.

Here is just one example:
http://www.joystiq.com/2006...

[DragonKnight]

SonyToo™

[mayberry]

@starchild your link article states "presumably hired by sony"...hence, no concrete evidence. Just saying.

[liquidhalos]

Plus there is no money involved, nobody was being paid to give potentially false reviews under the banner of an NDA

[DoctorJones]

Is 'SonyToo™' the new slogan that all the sheep are going to keep repeating now? Great.

[mos6142]

if you guys didnt read, it. what microsft said was that the clause was done by machinima, they were not aware of it.

[dedicatedtogamers]

They also said they weren't a part of PRISM...

Suppose it just depends on who you want to believe, huh?

[xHeavYx]

@mos
And you believe that? SMH...

[DigitalRaptor]

All we need to know is Microsoft's lawyers have been working overtime, and managed to get them off the hook, yet again.

https://twitter.com/Simpson...

[NatureOfLogic]

Lol, I knew Machinima would take the blame. MS is not good for the gaming industry. Xbone is obviously not good enough to sell through legit advertisement. That's why I'll most likely never own one.

[Thepharaoh]

Yeah ,that the reason why.

[Hercules189]

You say MS is not good for the gaming industry. Who is responsible for making online gaming insanely popular especially on consoles.

[ZeroChaos]

“This partnership between Machinima and Microsoft was a typical marketing partnership to promote Xbox One in December."

Didn't the leaked campaign say it was between January 14th and February 9th not December? >_>

[mos6142]

they had one for December aswell.atleast learn the facts.

[ZeroChaos]

I was just asking a question, about why they were commenting about December when the vast majority of complaints are about Jan/Feb.

No need to get defensive.

[Skate-AK]

He is just mad that MS is in negative news again. Don't pay no attention to him.

[DJustinUNCHAIND]

The world keeps spinning.

[MasterCornholio]

You spin me right round baby right round when you go down when you go down now.

Song reminds me of Microsoft's PR and how they deliver information to their consumers.

[WeAreLegion]

I'll agree, but I like the original song better.

[hazardman]

It truly is sad. When you think about beside DRM, Sony is doing samething MS is trying to do with the whole making a PS4 a media hub that is also a hardcore gaming device or vice versa. Sony takes the time to explain to the consumers their plans and how things work and people actually buy it. MS thows shit together and expext you to like it just because...lol. I dont know anyone that loves smelling, eating or catching shit!

[Bolts-N-Rays1109]

Cool. Cool, cool, cool. Back to playing video games.

[christocolus]

Been playing ryse and dr3 all this while.

[insomnium2]

Good for you.

[Hicken]

And stopped to post a pointless comment on an article regarding a subject you "don't care" about.

Makes sense.

[liquidhalos]

Amen to that

[snookiegamer]

Wow shocker, MS are aggressively promoting, marketing and advertising the Xbox One!!

That's outrageous!!! ...they should just do nothing and let the thing sell itself!

Really? ;/

[xHeavYx]

Nothing wrong with advertising your stuff, as long as it is... you know.. in a legal way?

[Gh05t]

Maybe I missed it but out of all the articles I have read I have not once read one thing that is stated as illegal.

Which in reality is bad journalism.

What exactly is the illegal part here?

Affiliates were required to make note that they were being paid for the video. If this did not happen and machinima still paid then regardless of what MS wants this does all fall on machinima shoulders as the ones who broke the law. MS did not directly pay the affiliates. They are controlled by machinima.

[xHeavYx]

@Ghost
Taken from a someone else's comment

"The FTC terms dictate that "a connection between the endorser and the seller of the advertised product that might materially affect the weight or credibility of the endorsement" be disclosed because the endorsement could be "disseminated via a form of consumer-generated media in which his relationship to the advertiser is not inherently obvious.""

The ASA (Advertising Standards Authority) "which regulates advertising in the UK, says: "Put simply, a blogger who is given money to promote a product or service has to ensure readers are aware they’re being advertised to.""

http://www.theguardian.com/...

[OrangePowerz]

Well the way they are doing it is borderline illegal with paying people to promote a product while they are not allowed to talk about it.

[jonboi24]

And the smaller guy gets the blame. This is so corporate BS. How do you even agree and pay for such a thing and not know all the terms. Either MS is blind and stupid when they started this thing or they really are sneaky b*stards. Seriously they really need to fire more than just their PR department.

[TheoreticalParticle]

I think it's VERY important that we all remember this as the Microsoft/Machinima Debacle. It's the only way to make sure that the guilty party is appropriately shamed.

Also, anyone who was caught participating should be shamed, as well.

[OrangePowerz]

Not suprised, MS is doing borderline illegal marketing and business since ages since at least Windows 95 came out.

[Godmars290]

So its all - mainly - being put on Machinima.

[Studio-YaMi]

They are basically the sheep to the slaughter house.

[BG11579]

This kinds of reminds me of everything wrong MS have been caught red-handed doing wrong.
They always say "We don't know what you're talking about. We haven't done what you say we have done. It's absolutely false. The switch can't be flipped."

[WillGuitarGuy]

MS: guy in black. Consumer: other guy.

[hazardman]

Lol...

[christocolus]

Finally, now i guess gamers will go back to playing their favorite games.

[Master-H]

Oh yes. Now grab a broom and help me sweep this under the rug quickly, will you?...

[blackmanone]

You naive man, christocolus :). I mean, in a perfect world you would be correct, but the internet is far from a perfect ecosystem.

[Goku781]

You still don't see nor will you acknowledge how once again they got caught doing something deceitful, and yet again are trying to sweep it under the rug, Are you getting paid too?

[RoboticusRex]

All is fair in love and console war, apparently. I agree with the laws on this, if you are paid you should disclose that fact.

[XiSasukeUchiha]

Lying and putting on the rug as usual MS do u honestly think were that dumb to forget about this the answer NO!

[pootymcpoockle]

All this shows as far as I'm concerned is desperation. They tried to keep it on the quiet to make it look like Machinimas "official" opinion on the console, rather than it coming across as a bought opinion.

You aint getting my money this time Microsoft! I had the 360 all the way through last gen, but this gen Sony quite simply have you beaten on the hardware front.

[EXVirtual]

So Machinima gets the blame. Why am I not surprised.
Corporate BS at it's finest.

[SpideySpeakz]

I just don't see how Boner fans can defend this. I can't see anyone defending this kind of practice (lying to it's fanbase) to gain more sales. I can't support ANY company that does that.
So what's the deal, Bone fans? The games aren't good enough for them to constantly bone me in the buttock. You hardly have any 1st party games, or original games for that matter.
So why continue to get boned up the anal by MS?

[liquidhalos]

Do you have to be so insulting? Is this the fault of any of the Xbox ONE gamers on N4G? Do they deserve to be called petty childish names by you? I didnt think so.

[first1NFANTRY]

yes the blame is partly their fault. as long as they continue to fund this corporation they will continue to make shady business practices.

[liquidhalos]

Cant argue with disgruntled children such as yourself

[tommygunzII]

Microsoft wasting your money, again.

[NeloAnjelo]

This is where your XBL money goes... To sell more lies for an inferior machine... Both hardware and software, power and memory.

[khan_saab]

I heard that they also pay for their TV ads too. and this just in, Nike pays athletes to wear their clothing.

[Bolts-N-Rays1109]

What?! That's nonsense, sir./s

[khan_saab]

I just realized that they did not put disclaimers and tried to do it stealthly and now I realize the reason why this is big news. It is illegal under FTC guidelines to advertise something in an editorial fashion and not let people know it is an advertisement. so my attempt to being sarcastic was wrong.

[Max-Zorin]

No matter what they do, EA always beat them for worst company in America title.

[SynestheticRoar]

Marketing partnership my ass. Caught plain and simple. Don't trust them.

[assdan]

When you get a statement like this, it's clear that they did exactly what we thought. A statement that's a paragraph long yet says nothing has never helped with PR. I don't see why these statement keep getting made by any company.

[TristanPR77]

I deleted Machimina from my feeds, period. I will not support any website with these kind of against the law tricks.

Also, this makes you think about how many other websites are doing the same or how many reviewers are selling their integrity for a little Money from Microsoft because this event was caught public but how many black deals like this happens out of the public eye?

And what is the problem with Microsoft, why not compete legally and fair? The PS3 took all the media hate like a man, never had any positive back up from anyone and yet it surpassed the 360 without having to pay anyone to LIE about it.

For that I take my hat off to Sony and give my middle finger to Microsoft.

[Funky Town_TX]

You should delete everyone then.

[first1NFANTRY]

One of the many reasons i will NEVER buy a Microsoft console again. When you support a company that uses these shady tactics how do you expect them not to try and force DRM down your throat.

Also i like honesty from a company in the product i buy not false marketing.

[Funky Town_TX]

Don't let anyone force something down your throat. Stay strong.

[gamer2013]

http://ps4daily.com/2013/06...

http://www.joystiq.com/2006...

http://www.foxnews.com/stor...

So I guess that you're not ever going to buy a Sony console again? Something tells me that you're problem has nothing to do with Micro's business practices but more to do with brand loyalty.

[KingDadXVI]

Did anyone really doubt this happens? The only point I would make it that it is not just MS, every company does the same thing. If you think otherwise you are foolish.

YouTube, other online sources, and other forms of media are all subject to this. This is not even restricted to just video games or commercial products. All you have to do is watch news coverage of the exact same news event by Fox News and CNN. You will see two completely different versions of exactly the same events.

I am not defending MS by saying this or saying that it is right. I am saying than it is done by everyone, companies, politicians, unions, etc. It is called propaganda and has been around since before writing itself was invented.

Too think that one company is guilty of this is not only naïve it is sad.

Watch Boogie's video explaining how rampant this is and how it involves all the companies that get reviewed on the internet.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[gigoran]

Buying positive feedback and the ability to remove all negative feedback. Microsoft have been doing this for ages. This is no surprise.

[Stopher92]

I really don't see how anybody in their right mind could respect Microsoft. They're full of lies, greed, and selfishness. I have 0 respect for this company. Call me a fanboy idc, it's companies like MS who make me want to be a fanboy honestly.. It's so easy to like and respect Sony, they do SO much to provide value and good service to us loyal gamers. For years I haven't bought one single thing from M$, simply bc they don't deserve my money. I didn't even buy MS Office, I pirated it like most ppl do lol. I don't even own a PC, I use Mac, and I absolutely love it. The OS is so clean and it just gets things done, with elegance, speed, and simplicity. Apple may not be cheap, but you're getting what you pay for, they're so flawlessly and meticulously designed, and you can tell that passion and effort was put into it. Nothing interests me with MS, and what's annoying is that they'll ALWAYS be rich, regardless of how many customers they lose. That's why they can make stupid selfish decisions, bc it won't matter anyway, they're rich for life. I feel bad for companies like Sony who genuinely TRY to provide value and lose lots of money in the process, but ppl still stick up for MS and despise Sony for no good reason. Oh well, it is what it is.

[Funky Town_TX]

Funny comment. You teach honesty by being dishonest? WTG. Next time Sony has your Credit Card data stolen and hides it for a month call them and say it's okay. Never trust a big corp.

[Stopher92]

MS got hacked too, it happens. Imagine if it was as bad as Target. Could've been a lot worse.

[Funky Town_TX]

@ Stopher92 hacking does happen. It got data stolen for 4 different companies. No one if perfect. I wrote that Sony hid it. I had a Co-worker get $1200 taken because of the PSN hack. I got data stolen from a bank card and that financial institute told me ASAP. My comment was about the previous poster acting as if Sony is a saint. I would hope you understand what I'm typing, but I'm sure I am wasting my time.

[CuddlyREDRUM]

Sounds like standard Machinima practice.

[DevilishSix]

or MS throwing them under the bus.

[MCTJim]

I dont even understand why this is a huge issue. This is a standard business practice and marketing used by most large companies to market their products to consumers.

Heaven forbid an athlete plugs Nike or rebook and gets paid to do so all the while saying positive things...how about Michael Jackson plugging pepsi all the while not liking the drink at all...Michael Jordan plugging undershirts and not saying anything negative.....my whole point is this really isnt news.

[Funky Town_TX]

It's M$. the big bad company, and all the others are saints.

[Veneno]

The difference between your examples and Microsoft is that in your examples it is understood that the viewers are being advertised to while in the Microsoft/Machinima case they were hiding the fact that they were being paid advertisers, which is illegal.

are you even reading the information? Or are you just not understanding it?

[Empire X]

Microsoft was not aware of individual contracts. Umm yeah.

[dj3boud]

agreed. MS Doesnt know about a contract with/by Michinima?! one of the most followed gaming channels of youtube? yeah right

[Miacosa]

Payola is always bad and they got busted, shame for trying it and shame for people who took part. All that was accomplished was they lost the public trust. Who in their right mind would ever trust these people or sites again.

[Grimhammer00]

Sorry....In a world of multi-billion $ corps who's jobs it is to know everything your affiliates do - as it will reflect back on you.....i feel MS knew Machinima was doing this. I also am sure that MS have a deniability clause in their contracts with Machinima.

Don't matter - it's MS insulting us consumers per norm.

[Lukejrl]

If people think this is okay let me put it this way:

"Hi, my name is Jack Handy. I want to tell you that I play Xbox One all day long. Not only does it give me the most entertainment, i cannot find anything wrong with it. I love the Boxy design, the specs, and the games.

Jack Handy collects a few thousand then goes home to play PS4.

Now if Jack wasn't offered any money here is how it might look like, still positive but notice the differences:

"Hi, my name is Jack Handy. I want to tell you that I like Xbox one, I play it almost as much as the PS4. Because the PS4 specs are higher we are seeing some differences in resolution in Multiplat games that favore PS4, but Ryse amd Titan fall look really good. Kinect is interesting but flawed, the way it turns off unexepectedly when "Xbox off" is simply mentioned. Kinect always signs me out when my wife enters the room and goes to her game. Just some notes on the cons of the system."

Jack Handy collects no money and goes back to play games he likes.

[DevilishSix]

FTC guidelines are there for a reason. If there is a deal for favorable opinions and those opinions are considered objective you have to disclose theres a deal for said opinion, its cut and dry.

[DJ]

Caught with their pants down.

[Mr-Dude]

Well, they where caught in the act, and now they are playing the innocent game... To bad they aren't man enough to admit it. Im sure other companies do it to, but they where lucky to not get caught. It's only a matter of time...

[razrye]

Jokes on you is a f*****g joke

[baodeus]

so the problem here i see is this:

On MS Side:
- you get paid (under the table) for saying nice things about xbox, though it is illegal (shame on MS, FTC should strike them down with a hammer of justice)

On Sony side:
- you don't get pay at all saying nice things about PS and it is totally legal

I can see why PS fan are so piss.

So what have we learned from this fiasco and lies:

1. Don't trust any review on games that are on the xbox because you don't know if they are influence by money or not, therefore, play the game and decided for yourself.

2. Reviews (like for Knack or KZSF) are trust worthy because people aren't influence by money, therefore, what reviewers said are based on their true feeling.

[MasterCornholio]

Your saying that PlayStation fans are jealous because they are not getting paid to say nice things about the PS4?

Well that's just dumb because both sides say positive things about their consoles and neither gets paid for it.

[baodeus]

well at least some of them get paid, while no one get paid for saying anything on PS front. So what is so wrong about that statement? Is that a true statement or not?

I didn't say that it is the right thing to do or it is legal to do such things, all i see is that they get paid illegally. You didn't see me confirm that part about FTC should strike MS down with hammer of justice? I never once said i condone such lies. I just said that some do get paid (illegally) on MS side, while other don't get paid at all (especially on PS side). How about this:

1. FTC should force MS to take back those money they given out so that people can say exactly what they want to say without influences from greed.

2. FTC should also fine MS for "semi" false/influence advertisement

I even suggested people not to trust review on MS games did I not? While we should trust review for Sony games because people at least, in part, aren't influence by greed or money.

[Gaming_Guru]

This is the kind of stuff people always suspect from companies but never really have any proof of it.

[Cyanide85]

I don't really understand why people is so surprised by this? It's been going on for years and it's not only M$ that is doing it the difference is that M$ got caught doing it.

And no I'm no M$ fanboy I shy away from everything that has been made by M$.
I had 3 360's all of them RROD. My windows pc's stopped working properly 6 months to a year after purchase, and no I do not download a lot of crap and fill up the HDD so that isn't the reason I only use my PC for surfing and watching movies. I've had a MAC for the last 2 years and NEVER have I had any kind of problems with it.

The point I'm trying to make is that every company even Sony is just trying to make as much money as they can and if that means that they have to pay someone to say good things about their product they will with out hesitation M$ just got caught doing it. I mean do everyone think that the people on home shopping networks LOVES every product they promote? And I don't see the difference between that and this.

[feraldrgn]

Based on that update, it's another "pin the tail on the donkey" game.

Let's remember how MS blamed EA for DRM & EA blamed MS for DRM, which turned out to be MS in the end.
Let's remember how MS were the first to join the PRISM program.

No, of course MS are innocent in all of this. /s

[Deeke]

Amen, brother! Preach it now!

[NikonSteve]

Its ok Microsoft. We all know you still suck.

[bornsinner]

who really believes sony don't hire promoters?

you're an idiot to deny it.

[manic_maniac]

Wow, all xbox one consoles or percentage of sold off of the back of underhand marketing?
Cmon you guys, really?
Xbox one sold as well as it did off of the back of the 360 and games line up for the system.
Xbox is doing well plain and simply because its got a good fan base and it is a cracking system.
Cant wait for some decent playstation games to come out so you fanboys have something to do besides hanging around xbox threads on n4g.

[Parasyte]

Throwing Machinima under the bus? You stay classy, Microsoft.

[Deeke]

Microsoft knew damn well what they were doing with this. I personally am not surprised, and I think gamers have a right to be up in arms against this kind of underhanded advertising.

The PS4 doesn't really need that much praise; it basically speaks for itself. It has its shortcomings, and it's very important for consumers to know what consoles don't do.

When you take away the negative elements, you take away that power that consumers have, and sometimes if they have to dig too deep for the truth they just give up altogether and go with something else.

It's an unfair move, and while it's also important to weigh the good features, people need to be aware of the bad as well.

[mochachino]

At least admit your wrong when caught for the wrong.

PFFT, I lose more and more respect for MS every day. What the hell happened over there? they used to be a great leading edge company. Now their a cautionary tale of what not to do in business for companies like Google and Apple.

Best way to win is to create the best product, service, or value or some combination in between, not pay to trick people into thinking your the best only to discover after the purchase that they've been duped by marketing.

[5eriously]

Everyone knows M$ hire shills and pay them well. Even here on N4G a few stand out as well. We generally call them bot's but in my opinion only a few of them are real good shills of the Belking or Sessler type.

[gamer2013]

Yeah Sony are so innocent they would never do such things. You obviously missed a few posts here that provided links and proof that Sony does the same. Here, I'll be a nice guy and post them again; I'll even throw in a link featuring "Boogie" (a.k.a. Francis) who provides a little honest insight into Youtubes paid influence system. You're welcome!

http://www.joystiq.com/2006...

http://www.foxnews.com/stor...

http://ps4daily.com/2013/06...

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[Neonridr]

To be honest, this is nothing new in today's day and age. People are paid all the time to say nice things about a product, whether or not they actually use it or believe it. It's a business world and they are getting paid so at the end of the day who really cares.

When you watch to stupid Saturday morning infomercials where they are demoing a new super sponge or a Magic Bullet, you think all those people in the audience aren't paid to be there? Sadly it's how the world works now.

That being said, I don't know why MS would be so secretive about it. Again, that's a common tactic nowadays so there's nothing really to be ashamed of. Just fess up and admit it.

[My_Outer_Heaven]

More BS.. Xbox Go home.

[snookiegamer]

@Myself

'Wow shocker, MS are aggressively promoting, marketing and advertising the Xbox One!!

That's outrageous!!! ...they should just do nothing and let the thing sell itself!'

The above is a comment I made without fully understanding the gravity of MS' actions. Now I realize what MS has done amounts to 'Bribery'.

I regret making my comment, and am 100% against this practice. I felt so silly once I actually READ what was going on, that I had the quote myself, and I would have hit the disagree tab if I could.

I put my hands up, I can't defend the indefensible ;/