760°

Xbox One graphics capabilities, odd SoC architecture, and bus bandwidth confirmed by Microsoft

Here’s the important points, for comparison’s sake. The CPU cache block attaches to the GPU MMU, which drives the entire graphics core and video engine. Of particular interest for our purposes is this bit: “CPU, GPU, special processors, and I/O share memory via host-guest MMUs and synchronized page tables.” If Microsoft is using synchronized page tables, this strongly suggests that the Xbox One supports HSA/hUMA and that we were mistaken in our assertion to the contrary. Mea culpa.

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extremetech.com
thetruthx14311d ago

"The underlying architecture is very similar to a super-charged APU with much higher internal bandwidth than a normal AMD chip"

Hmmm things are getting very interesting

4Sh0w4311d ago (Edited 4311d ago )

Nice deeper look at the specs from extremetech. X1 is customized up the ...! That chip is packing some surprising punch, with stuff like DirectX 11.1+, eSRAM, and the 109-204gb's of improved bandwith has my head exploding, plus no mention of the 8gb flash memory I read on a previous thread or am I confusing myself with something else? Damm its going to be very interesting to see the Digital Foundry bench tests once these 2 monsters release.

thetruthx14311d ago

Yup it'll also have 8 gigs of flash memory. Ms also said they have some things in the Xbox One that they don't want the competitors knowing about

4Sh0w4311d ago

I thought so. Are they purposely keeping some spec info under the radar? I wonder what the hell that 8gb flash memory does?

PrimeGrime4311d ago (Edited 4311d ago )

@4Sh0w

The internal flash is used to store the new Xbox One's massive OS and firmware updates, also to alleviate space on the non removable HDD. Nothing more, if you are hoping it can free up RAM usage that the OS will need. Well we aren't there yet.

That is just impossible to use flash memory to run the entire OS. PC's can't even currently do that.

So to answer your question that is what they are using it for to store the OS, it will still use a certain amount of the systems RAM to operate.

NextGen24Gamer4311d ago (Edited 4311d ago )

Developers have been pleasantly surprised by the extra power the xbox one has due to the custom architecture in the xbox one. 8 gigs of ram, 8 gigs of flash memory, 2 extra custom cores for the hd audio, etc....

Here is a quote from the article:

If the cache really is 1024 bits wide, and the developers can make suitable use of it, then the Xbox One’s performance might surprise us.

This technical unveil confirms much of what we suspected about the chip, but throws us for some curves in other areas. All in all, a great session.

slivery4311d ago

@Elite24Gamer

Those 2 audio chips are for the new Kinect and its audio processes.

PrimeGrime4310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

Lol I love how many are disagreeing with pure facts. Flash memory cannot be used to run the OS but only to store it.

Why do you think the Xbox One's HDD and internal flash memory are using in conjunction with each other. Simple.

Jesus I am not shitting on the thing.

I am just explaining what the internal flash is used for. What else would be used for then? Since you can't use flash memory like RAM.

Please correct me then don't just disagree.

Lol ever since I got slasher716 or w/e his name is in trouble since then every time I comment. I get one disagree immediately..

Bennibop4310d ago

109 - 204 gb is theoretical bandwidth, this is just Microsoft spin the reality will be around 109 - 150. Sony I am sure could release some theoretical figures too!

kupomogli4310d ago

@Bennibop

Since only the 32MB ESRAM is 204GB/s most of it's going to be 109GB/s. Developers will probably be able to have the 8GB of slower ram not drop the commonly used textures and stuff that's not commonly used might go onto the 32MB first and then drop off the 32MB after it's on the DDR3.

It'll work well if the game is developed well, but the GDDR5 will run at a static speed, so giving developers less of a chance to make a mistake on filtering ram back and forth when there's only one pool to do it.

NewMonday4310d ago

- 8g of Flash is most likely used to store the OS and system resources separately from the HDD, and that is to make it harder to crack.

- HSA/hUMA are not the same, hUMA concerns memory, HSA concerns processing, and the XB1 chip presentation did not state the use of hUMA or HSA or described a process that is similar.

NextGenHorny4310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

Since the 8GB flash memory matches the RAM size, I guess it will be used for some kind of system suspension.
Instead of saving the RAM memory content to disk, it saves it to the flash memory, which I believe it's faster access than an HDD.

Tw1tch3D4310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

@ Bennibop

"Theoretical bandwidth" makes no difference in either consoles, whether it be PS4's 176 GB/s or XOne's 204 GB/s ESRAM.

Sony's PS4 will NEVER hold a rate of 176 GB/s, but marking it at that point shows how much developers can work with. Same thing goes for XOne.

So if 109 GB/s is the minimum and 204 is peak and the ESRAM points to the GPU...well, that goes to show how much the developers can work with and not that they'll have difficulty going beyond 109 GB/s.

The question now is what is the ESRAM used for?!

...and the last question is a hint to Kupomogli on what his meaning of the term "commonly used textures" on the CPU, as if the CPU will be heavily used for graphics?! Doubt that!

@ newmonday

"..hUMA concerns memory, HSA concerns processing..."

Whaaa?!

There is no difference between the two, only that hUMA truly facilitates memory coherency. Do you understand what you post before doing it? Probably a twitter habit, right??

Computersaysno4310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

The architecture is a bit of a mish mash created simply because Microsoft didn't think they could use faster memory in the shape of GDDR5.

In that sense it is overly complicated and patched up to try and help the weakness using DDR3 was going to create for the machine, that is not enough memory bandwidth for serious graphics performance.

We have to remember that is the only reason this complicated memory architecture exists, NOT because it is better than straight up massive chunk of unified memory.

Sony illustrated that they could theoretically have a small chunk of esram with bandwidth on the scale of 1000 gigabytes per second, but this was just not as good as having a large pool of memory with 'only' 176Gb/s.

If these small chunks of very fast on die memory were so helpful to graphics architectures, then PC graphics cards would be chock full of it.

The fact is its still a waste of die space for them. Its still much better to just use the space for extra shaders or TMUs and have a medium sized memory bus with high speed GDDR5.

Thats how every high end GPU still does it. Sony gambled choosing GDDR5 and it has paid off mega stylee. Microsoft have a slower architecture packed with more complex buses and a more difficult chip to get yields on.

Its hilarious really, Microsoft provided the best programming environment with the most straight forward machine in X360, and it worked fantastically for them. Sony created this fiddly machine in PS3 to accommodate their CELL processor and separate memory banks that devs grappled with for years.

This new generation is the ultimate role reversal.

Athonline4310d ago

^To some people above:

HSA is part of the Jaguar APUs' architecture. There isn't ANY way the XBox could have a Jaguar-based APU and not HSA. HSA specifications are set by the HSA Foundation: http://hsafoundation.com/st...
which AMD HAS to implement and as a result, both Sony and Microsoft have to.

hUMA is AMD implementation of an HSA-like solution in traditional Von Neumann architectures X86(and X86-64) PCs to allow a shared memory pool to be used. hUMA is NOT part of the HSA specification and NOT the same. It is like an a poor, incomplete implementation of the HSA specifications, as HSA is NOT possible within a PC.
Similar to AMD's hUMA nVidia is launching Maxwell-architecture GPUs to allow shared memory access.

Both PS4 and XBOne got HSA in their APUs and none has nor needs hUMA.

HSA is an actual STANDARD set by a consortium of companies. hUMA is a MARKETING name for an AMD technology.

If you want, you can enjoy reading "brainless journalism", who try for a bit of internet traffic feed people with false info or incomplete statements.

aceitman4310d ago

the 8 gig of flash was rumored for the interactive ads.

+ Show (11) more repliesLast reply 4310d ago
ma1asiah4311d ago (Edited 4311d ago )

You got to love this bit s well

"Of particular interest for our purposes is this bit: “CPU, GPU, special processors, and I/O share memory via host-guest MMUs and synchronized page tables.” If Microsoft is using synchronized page tables, this strongly suggests that the Xbox One supports HSA/hUMA and that we were mistaken in our assertion to the contrary"

I mean it doesn't confirm that they actually do but it is more and more looking highly likely.

As for unrevealed details that only makes logical sense. I mean its not like you want to show all your cards too early it is a war after all.

Man that 8 GB of flash memory if they do the same as they did with the X360 by using that for the OS then we could see even more of the pool of DDR3 RAM freed up for other uses.

Plus the hypervisor which can dial up and down resource allocation to where most needed.

Loving the X1 more and more

NextGen24Gamer4310d ago

It's definitely good stuff. I'm with you. I'm loving the xbox one more and more as well. This is what they meant by saying it's rocket science stuff in the box.

It definitely looks like it. MS knew what they were doing all along. That's why they kept saying it's not only about the raw numbers that Sony was throwing out there.

What is even more interesting is they decided not to talk about specifics under the hood until Sony announced their launch date. Just to make sure they didn't change their tech in an attempt to compete.

kneon4310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

If they used flash in place if ram not only would it be incredibly slow but it would burn through the read/write cycles of the chip in no time.

The flash is for storing the os or its another form of data cache, basically a mini ssd.

JP13694310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

Elite-
"What is even more interesting is they decided not to talk about specifics under the hood until Sony announced their launch date. Just to make sure they didn't change their tech in an attempt to compete."

Why would Sony need to change tech when they're already ahead?

50% More shaders
50% more texture units
50% more compute units
Twice the ROPS
Better RAM that is easier to get the most out of.
Also has dedicated audio chip

Sorry, MS themselves confirmed 1.3 TFLOPS, while PS4 is sitting at 1.8. No amount of spin and PR buzzwords will overcome that advantage.

juggulator4310d ago

@JP1369
This is a comment thread for an X1 article. Most people commenting here don't care that PS4s specs prove its 50% more powerful(except maybe you and me). To them those specs are "raw numbers" which begs the question, if Sonys PS4 specs are raw numbers then what is all those specs/numbers mentioned in this article?

JP13694310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

juggalator-
" To them those specs are "raw numbers" which begs the question, if Sonys PS4 specs are raw numbers then what is all those specs/numbers mentioned in this article?"

Are you dense? You know exactly what those numbers are.
The reason I commented is to clear up the nonsense that people love to spew in articles like these. Saying that Sony needs to change tech to compete is, in fact, nonsense. Sony fanboys can be pretty bad as well, but I haven't seen as many of them willfully ignore the facts and succumb to hearsay, conspiracy theory and full-on delusion in an attempt to justify their purchase. The One will have great games and I'm sure millions of people will enjoy their experience with it. However, it won't be the most powerful console on the market, not by some margin. There's nothing wrong with that and - until recently - you heard many people in the MS camp say that graphics aren't all that important, yet it seems many of them have changed their tune now that official specs have been released. Unfortunately for them, all the specs do is confirm what we already knew. This is what is confusing and sad and pathetic about the situation; that is has remained pretty much the same, but a certain fanbase is acting as if some game changer just occured. Well, it hasn't. Deal with it.

ma1asiah4310d ago

Could Microsoft somehow have managed to have implemented Fusion ioMemory to work with in the architecture of the X1???? possibly maybe?????

The virtual memory subsystem abstracts logical data addresses from their physical location by creating a directory of data locations. In modern OSs, a 64-bit virtual address space is used to organize and partition data used by the applications and users. Below this virtual address space lays the physical RAM, which has a much smaller address space. Operating systems and applications use this virtual interface to RAM (called the page table) to look up the physical location of data using a directory rather than requiring massive quantities of RAM just to satisfy each application's memory address space.

Similar to page tables in the host virtual memory subsystem, VSL virtualizes Flash via "block tables." VSL translates block requests to physical ioMemory addresses, also analogous to the virtual memory subsystem. It's important to note that these block tables are stored in host memory. This is a key advantage over other solid-state architectures (e.g. SSDs) that store block tables only in embedded RAM, where block tables are accessible only behind legacy storage protocols.

MarkusMcNugen4310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

@JP1369
"Sony fanboys can be pretty bad as well, but I haven't seen as many of them willfully ignore the facts and succumb to hearsay, conspiracy theory and full-on delusion in an attempt to justify their purchase."

Sure they have. Kinect spybox comes to mind. That is a conspiracy theory an full-on delusion that PS4 fanboys have been spouting to defend their purchase of a PS4 and convince others to do the same.

And if not to defend their purchase than to try and convince others to participate in the delusion and buy their preferred console.

Trust me, both sides are guilty. Xbox fanboys defend the Xbox One without understanding the specs and how they compare, and PS4 fanboys attack the Xbox One because of specs they dont understand.

juggulator4305d ago (Edited 4305d ago )

@JP1369

First let's get one thing straight. I've been gaming since playing Asteroids and Pole Psotion on an Atari and have a college degree in level design. I work with game engines like UE3 and CRYENGINE on a daily basis. I know exactly what the specs of boths systems are. I comment on here for recreation, you comment here for a living and I will not be disprespected by some incognito delusonal fanboy.

"50% More shaders
50% more texture units
50% more compute units
Twice the ROPS "

Yes but HOW MANY of each cuz you sound like your spitting out raw numbers. Sony has provided the exact specs of what their CPU/GPU. MS is saying "you may get over 200/gbps depending on whether or not the 32MB of ESRAM is properly utilized" and obviously there are devs that are doing that because Ryse and Titanfall exist and they look damn good.

The sad thing is that I was initially agreeing with you but the "blinders" have obviously blurred your vision. And I won't be issuing or accepting any apologies either. I want to remain as respectful as possible as I know this is a comment thread for an X1 article but I've been a PlayStation gamer for over 20 years and that won't be changing because some article comes out claiming there's "new info" about the X1's architecture when in reality it's stuff that I knew before MS's reveal prior to E3.

I may be able to tolerate being called dense on the day that I exchange my Dualshock for something else, until then I don't f**cking think so.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 4305d ago
PrimeGrime4311d ago

Not trying to rain on your parade but it isn't anything new. I talked about this a couple days ago. Especially if anyone has been reading up on AMD's APU's lately.

Both the PS4 and Xbox APU's are based off of the same high performance technology used in the Kaveri APU planned to be released in early 2014.

The only difference is they are still based off of Jaguar cores and the Kaveri is steamroller cores but its still very new tech none the less.

They are both customized and everyone should be excited if you are Playstation fan or Xbox fan to see what these new APU's bring to the table.

kewlkat0074310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

Nobody has yet to tell me what the 8GB flash ram is for?

I didn't know Microsoft customize that ship so much...
http://www.reactiongifs.com...

The XboxOne might not have the better GPU but if it were a Race car, it would have a more efficient and very very zippy Pitcrew looking at the architecture.

bromtown4310d ago

People have said above - probably for storing the operating system since the HDD is non replaceable. However it's not for running the OS as some people have been saying, a) it's not quick enough, and b) Flash memory has a finite number of read/write operations before it craps out, so running an operating system from it would kill it super fast.

NextGenHorny4310d ago

I guess it will be used for some kind of system suspension, as it matches the RAM size.

Omegasyde4310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

@Bromtown.

Finally someone address that. The OS will be written to the HDD (despite not being able to be removed except by MS).

The 8 gig flash is a bit concerning as even the best quality flash drives have a limited read/write limit.

My guess is it used for storing background permanent information (I.e. "Software licenses") and has an advanced form of anti-hacking encryption on it. This leads me to believe that Major Nelson was right in a sense, that DRM can't be just turned off with a "switch".

IMHO, unless it was retooled for another purpose, the Xbox one might not even use the flash memory because of their reversal of policies after the FCC submission. It could possibly still store licences, but if thats true 8 gigs seems like overkill.

MarkusMcNugen4310d ago

@Omegasyde
"The 8 gig flash is a bit concerning as even the best quality flash drives have a limited read/write limit."

True, but it all depends on whether its SLC or MLC for how many read/writes it can take before the end of its life. Id also like to point out that every smart phone has flash storage as well, and most of those have yet to die from read/writes.

Pretty sure my android phone is writing to and reading from the flash memory storage a ton and its alive and well. Hell, my old iPhone 3G is still working fine and I cant tell you the number of times Ive had to reload my 20000 songs to it.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 4310d ago
nosferatuzodd4310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

when it comes to hardware we all know who's king Samsung GE sharp all get help by Sony on hardware if it was software related then Microsoft would have the advantage but hardware please we are not worried about their theory 204 gbs second its just wishful thinking to trick ppl on their under power console look at the fact no matter how they over clock and es ram they're just making the system more difficult to work with they're going to overclock until every Xbox one catch fire in ppl houses I'm going to laugh at the RRoD that's coming i don't trust Microsoft with a dish washer much less a console

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 4305d ago
stuna14311d ago

And from your comments I'm willing to bet that you think that Microsoft are the only one that have something up their sleeve that they don't want the competition to know about!? After all you are about the truth!

I'm sure both have secret sauce in their architecture.

ThatCanadianGuy5144311d ago

PS4: 1152 Shaders
Xbone: 768 Shaders

PS4: 72 Texture units
Xbone: 48 Texture units

PS4: 32 ROPS
Xbone: 16 ROPS

Doesn't change the cold hard facts.

ThatCanadianGuy5144311d ago

Facts are spam now?
How convenient.

Skips4311d ago (Edited 4311d ago )

DayZ

But some don't like facts... They'd rather cling to "theoretical", "powah of ze ClOuD!!", and rainbows and dreams and whatnot... lol On paper, PS4 is definitely more powerful from what I understand...

And the games do show it, no doubt...

http://s.pro-gmedia.com/vid...
http://s.pro-gmedia.com/vid...
vs.
http://s.pro-gmedia.com/vid...
http://s.pro-gmedia.com/vid...

I admit, Forza 5 does look incredible...
http://a.pomf.se/3El1.gif

But I could honestly say the SAME thing about DriveClub... lol http://a.pomf.se/5Cj7.gif

^^Courtesy of GribbleGrunger...

EDIT: @badkolo...

Not sure if serious??? :/

Anyways, as good as Titanfall looks. It doesn't even come close... lol

https://www.googledrive.com...
https://www.googledrive.com...
vs.
http://i.minus.com/ibkLh2II...
http://i.minus.com/iSylqprP...

Ritsujun4311d ago

YeH yOu cAn'T beEt tEh pAwaA of za ClouDz.

badkolo4311d ago

skips, your first killzone pic is not gameplay , try harder. when the gameplay starts all that prettyness gets blurred, watch killzone videos again to see the truth

u got owned4311d ago

From "theWB27";

Bugattii- 1000 horsepower 270mph 0-60 2 seconds
Nurburgring- 7:40 mins
Top Gear- 1:16 mins

Nissan GT-R-Stats- 480HP 193mph 0-60 3.2 seconds
Nurburgring- 7:24 mins
Top Gear- 1:17 mins

Game design isn't a straight line."

enough said!

ALLWRONG4310d ago

The people who deny cloud or cloud computing (See OnLive) have the same mind set as those who thought electricity was magic. The same kind of people who tried to discredit Genetics or DNA.

In other words "denial"

JokesOnYou4310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

ssshhh you're making too much sense. I keep telling them the performance difference is so close its mute, devs and money will determine quality of games. It will however be interesting to see the backtracking when real world bench tests highlight X1 advantages.

GribbleGrunger4310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

@badkolo: I wasn't going to post anything until I saw your post.

"skips, your first killzone pic is not gameplay , try harder. when the gameplay starts all that prettyness gets blurred, watch killzone videos again to see the truth"

1080p comparison. Keep an eye on the shadows, lighting and reflections as well as the density of action and the near photorealism of textures:

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Fun fact: The KZS footage is 1080p/60fps

Don't get me wrong though, Titanfall will be a fantastic game and well worth the purchase.

Deadpoolio4310d ago

It's amazing how with Xbots facts are suddenly Spam or just someone being a hater....It's weaker get over it, the One80 will never be as powerful, the cloud will never do what you people think it will especially graphically....

But that doesn't mean the One80 is a slouch, it's just weaker....So what games will still look nice on it

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 4310d ago
Arrrriibaa4311d ago (Edited 4311d ago )

More money > less money.

edit: oohh nice pc fanboys disliking a fact, nothing new them PC fanboys haha!.

madpuppy4311d ago

If you are so enamoured by the PC, why are you spamming console threads? wouldn't you just stay where you are with like-minded gamers?

_QQ_4311d ago (Edited 4311d ago )

Then why is he spamming XBOX threads? of course i'm not surprised, the white damage control knights don't come out on this site untill Sony gets criticism. plus why would i dislike someone claiming that i have allot of money?yeah more money,better graphics too,better indie scene, better options,better performance,better online community,More games. Cold hard facts right?

LucasEVille4311d ago

What's wrong with choosing a console and using your pc? Unless your just staying with pc in which case why are you even commenting on console articles?

Narutone664311d ago

@lopez_josue,
Since your beloved XB1 is losing on specs, you have to resort to PC to win an argument.

kneon4310d ago

Why bother? Because the games you want to play are only available on one of the consoles.

That's the only reason you need.

_QQ_4310d ago

@Narutone Yep my beloved X1,I guess being unbiased now days means you are a fanboy. I don't give an ass about the X1.

wtopez4310d ago

I agree with Lopez_Josue. If you're gonna swing your PS4 specs d*ck around an Xbox thread, don't moan when a PC user drops, as DayZ would put it, "cold hard facts".

PS4: 1152 Shaders
GTX 770: 1536 Shaders

PS4: 72 Texture units
GTX 770: 128 Texture units

This is from a Mid/High end GPU that has been out for months. By the time the consoles are out, AMD will have launched it's new line of GPUs and Nvidia will have revised it's GTX 700 series. That is only this year and it happens every year.

Sevir4310d ago

Sooooo are you going to Spend $600 to upgrade so you can PLAY the SAME multiplatform Games which currently have PS3/Xbox 360 as their BASELINE, just so you can GLOSS over Framerates and Resolution? the overall story and gameplay dont matter, EVEN if its just a high res console port!?

LOL keep playing the resolution and framerate game.

But if a game runs steady and looks pretty on one console the overall experience is THE SAME across the board, even with high res assets and higher frame rates!

Just saying.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 4310d ago
maniacmayhem4311d ago

All of that and the games shown for Xbox One still look excellent.

torchic4310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

I don't think anybody ever said that they wouldn't look excellent.

they just won't look as good as PS4, (especially 1st party) that's it. that is nothing to be ashamed of though, 360 users enjoyed their 1st party titles even though they didn't look as good as PS3 1st party titles.

Death4310d ago

The same ones talking about PS4's superiority also claimed the PS3 would be "TrueHD" 1080p for everything released. They also said Blu-ray made PS3 games look better.

Here's a nice flashback to 2005 http://www.ign.com/articles...

The PS3 GPU was also rated at 1.8 Tflops by Sony so you will have to excuse me if I don't seem to overly excited by Sony's claims for the PS4.

torchic4310d ago

holy fudgecakes! disagrees! what did I say wrong?

1st party PS3 games looked better than 1st party 360 games.

devs already saying that PS4 versions of multiplats will look a bit better (Rivals, Warframe)

these are indisputable facts people! not trying to trash 360 or Xbox One!

@death

if that's somewhat directed at me, just note that I was 12 in 2005, blissfully unaware of such topics.

nightfallfilms4311d ago

No its SPAM when you post it in every single article. I could probably go onto a non gaming website and find you posting this crap.

CPTN MITCHELL4311d ago

What about xbone fans with the no game spam

MarkusMcNugen4310d ago

@CPTIN MITCHELL

They are both stupid. Fanboys are stupid, thats all there really is to it. Not stupid as in unintelligent, stupid as in blind to anyone elses interests other than their own.

tuglu_pati4311d ago

@DayZ

Spam much...

i don't see any mention or comparison with the PS4 in the article. So its obvious that you are trolling.

corvusmd4311d ago (Edited 4311d ago )

@ Day Z Well this is based on old SUSPECTED figures..not to mention it's just a SMALL slice of the over all picture, you keep focusing on the paper specs you like....you'll get left in the dust...you've been warned.

PS3 did this SAME thing last gen...and it's still getting whooped at the end of the gen in graphics and playability. Open your mind a little, and stop focusing on paper specs that are outdated and mean little to nothing

cell9894310d ago

Um... Show me something on the 360 that looks and plays better than The Last Of Us, Uncharted 3, God of War Acension, or Two souls. Exactly stfu and try harder

ziggurcat4310d ago

Suspected specs that are confirmed.

How is PS3 being whooped? Because it's widely known that graphics in 1st party titles have far surpassed that of the X360. 3rd party titles have also reached parity in terms of graphical fideltiy, and are increasingly surpassing the X360. And where are you getting that nonsense about playability from?

MysticStrummer4310d ago

"PS3 did this SAME thing last gen...and it's still getting whooped at the end of the gen in graphics and playability."

There goes any hope of credibility.

fooltheman4310d ago

I once had a guy over who only had a 360 and had played halo 4...
and even him had to confess Killzone looked a lot better... He was even impressed by all the first party games...

4310d ago
StrangerX4310d ago

@cell 989

well if you insist!then:
Crysis 2&3,
Halo 4
Alan Wake
Gears of War 3
Forza 3&4

Sevir4310d ago

StrangerX....

OK well lets compare.

Crysis 2 and 3 on Xbox 360 to Killzone 2 and 3 on PS3... it isn't Crysis

Again Halo 4 compared to Killzone 3 still falls flat.

You said Alan WAKE? let me say it like the form MS exec Don Mattrick... "HAVE YOU SEEN..." BEYOND: 2 Souls?

Gears of War 3... OK! UNCHARTED 2 or Uncharted 3 or better yet THE LAST OF US! Which ever do you pick the out come remains.

Forza 3/4? GT6 lets not play blind here! Visually PS3 exclusives hold the crown and always will!

but can we just stay on Topic here, this isn't about teh PS4's superior specs or the PS3s first party game comparisons to the xbox 360... Its about MS confirming what we all already knew about the XBO's internals with some interesting additions.

As it stands Now the XBOX is exactly the machine that it was predicted to be even when MS was being ambiguous and left tech junkies to scrounge for facts while they through out 5 billion transistor GPU and cloud powered.

Its a marked step up over the xbox 360... IT'll have some great games, Hello Titan Fall! but thats it. Acting as if the detailed info on the MS finally revealed makes the console magically more stronger than it already is silly. It is a POUND for POUND exact confirmation on the performance of the machine that many tech sites have deduced months prior MS just made it official. Lets get back to waiting for the great games coming out at launch for these 2 devices!

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 4310d ago
badkolo4311d ago

then this will be the first time you see a lower powered system trounce a 40% more powerful system, cause no one is even denying the facts,, the games look better on the x1

ziggurcat4310d ago

"the games look better on the x1"

Subjective opinion, not fact.

JamieL4310d ago

@ ziggurcat
Yep, sure is, just like every PS4 zealot on here talking about how much better the PS4 is, before the damn thing has even come out. Why is his opinion any different that the folks talking about how much they love the PS4? One more thing, why didn't you start your crusade way up there where this opinion BS started? I saw at least 5 PS fanboy opinions you could have targeted before this one from badkolo.

Funantic14311d ago

Your "facts" haven't been proven because no one but Microsoft understands their architecture. The more we learn about the X1 the more we find out that it's more powerful than what we originally thought. So your spec spam is just a spoof.

Quicktopick4310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

maybe ur ryt... then maybe u arent. well c in a couple of months

PFFT4311d ago (Edited 4311d ago )

And this is a fact as well!

From "theWB27";

Bugattii- 1000 horsepower 270mph 0-60 2 seconds
Nurburgring- 7:40 mins
Top Gear- 1:16 mins

Nissan GT-R-Stats- 480HP 193mph 0-60 3.2 seconds
Nurburgring- 7:24 mins
Top Gear- 1:17 mins

Game design isn't a straight line."

I couldnt have said it better myself.
Thank you theWB27 and thanks to u got owned for re posting this awesome quote!

JackOfAllBlades4311d ago

And the GT-R is Japanese, the PS4 is Japanese, the PS4 is more powerful, the Veyron is more powerful. The best of both worlds, so the PS4 is far superior, I understand what you are getting at now.

:D

4311d ago
Narutone664310d ago

Lol at the comparison between the cars and game designs. Just like the power of the clouds, not everybody's internet is fiber optic, right? So based on that comparison, the power of the clouds is just wishful thinking.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 4310d ago
TheHierarchy4311d ago (Edited 4311d ago )

@DayZ

you know, I wonder in 6 years from now when things change again what you'll be saying then.

to me this tech comparison won't matter. we'll all be getting remasters of this upcoming gen's games in the future for the next consoles.

Bundles will be made and we'll all be buying the same sh3t because the gen after won't be backwards compatible with APUs and whatnot.

B-radical4310d ago

You are so annoying no one is denying that? Geeeee

starchild4310d ago

You're trolling because, while those are facts, they aren't all the facts.

You are only drawing attention to facts that support your bias.

BallsEye4310d ago

Here we go again.
RAW specs RAW specs.
By saying that XO is not on par even with ps4, you automaticly admit that ps3 is like a SNES compared to xbox 360. Why? Because X360 got WAY more raw power.

Funny how amazing looking games still came out on ps3. It must be magic or your facts don't mean sh!t.

http://www.examiner.com/ima...

Here you go. Now go do something useful.

Kingnichendrix4310d ago

let me just copy and paste something i pointed out to someone further down. "Ps3 is not 5x less capable in raw power are you out of your mind let me summarise just for you.
Cpu: Xbox 360 3.2-GHz PowerPC Tri-Core Xenon vs Ps3's 3.2 GHz Cell Broadband Engine x8 spes which work like cores one was reserved for os.
Gpu: Xbox 360 500 MHz ATI Xenos, Up to 512 MB GDDR3 RAM (shared w/ system RAM) and 10 MB eDRAM 21.6 GBps bandwidth (256 GBps via eDRAM) vs Ps3's RSX “Reality Synthesizer” @ 550MHz, 256 MB GDDR 3RAM (additional 224 MB can be shared w/ system RAM) and 22.4 GBps bandwidth
Total T-Flop performance: Xbox 360 1052 Gflops vs Ps3 1.8 Tflop's
Ram: Xbox 360 512 MB GDDR3 RAM (shared with GPU), 700 MHz speed and 22.4 Gbps bandwidth vs Ps3's 256 MB XDR RAM, 3.2 GHz speed and 25.6 Gbps bandwidth"

FrigidDARKNESS4310d ago

Lmao you people still klinging to those old specs from vgleaks.

JP13694310d ago

Oh, you mean the leak that these new specs confirm? The boost in performance is from increased GPU clock speeds, which means the numbers are still in line with what VGleaks reported. Good argument though...

Also, it's clinging. This isn't Mortal Kombat, learn to spell.

Belking4310d ago

lol..You can't measure performance with ROPS and FLOPS.

while the raw numbers would favor Sony, the real trick here is to try and output only what is required. MS custom design and the way they cached the heck out of this thing will easily match ps4 performance. The power gap that people thought was there just isn't, now that we have all the information from MS.

The real proof is in the games. xb1 games look just as good or even better than PS4....and they are running at better framerates.

JP13694310d ago

Killzone: Shadow Fall MP runs 1080P60. The only XBONE equivalents are Forza (baked lighting, racing game) and KI (fighting game). Your examples are poor.

"You can't measure performance with ROPS and FLOPS."

Actually, you can measure performance is ROPS and FLOPS, which is why these measurements even exist. The caching is done to overcome the slow DDR3, which may bring it on par with the PS4's GDDR5 (reports say the theoretical numbers for XBOne bandwidth is actually in the 150gb/s range). Still, that requires extra time and effort just to maybe get the memory on the One working as well as its competition. You're also ignoring the PS4's ability to bypass cache altogether and use multiple pipelines to ensure communication between CPU and CPU.
Still, that's only the memory. The One doesn't have the grunt to compete with PS4. Launch games are always a mixed bag, with devs constantly aiming at a moving target. I don't doubt the One will compare favorably this November, but things will change once the second wave comes out. It will only get worse from there, as people start to use compute functions on the PS4 that the One doesn't have.

To reiterate:
No amount of memory management will help the One develop more compute units, texture units, shaders or ROPS. These are physical limitations on the console and it's in this area that the One is completely outclassed. Enjoy your launch games, as they are the first and last generation on Xbone software that will be able to compete with PS4 graphically.

XabiDaChosenOne4310d ago

@JP1369
"Enjoy your launch games, as they are the first and last generation on Xbone software that will be able to compete with PS4 graphically."
Pretty much.

Badassbab4310d ago

@ Skips

Unfair screenshot comparisons. Let me explain why.

Titanfall is being developed on a heavily modified 'Source' game engine which was originally developed by Vale for Counterstrike and Half Life 2 way back in 2004. It's also 60FPS so only has 16.66ms to render an entire frame. In no way does Titanfall take full advantage of the Xbox One.

Killzone SF is on a game engine developed by first party developer Guerilla Games specifically for the PS4 from ground up. It's also a 30FPS SP so has twice as long to render a frame making for nicer looking graphics.

FM5 is like Titanfall a 60FPS game so 30 FPS Driveclub has twice as much time to render a frame which should mean it has a better chance of turning out to be the prettier game but in this instance it's not because Turn 10 are just better developers when it comes to extracting the most out of a console.

It really is down to the developer and the game engine used. If Killzone SF was 60FPS those screenshots would not have looked as good. In my opinion Titanfall looks like to have the better gameplay which is what matters in the end.

JP13694310d ago

Killzone multiplayer runs at 60 frames, just like Titanfall and it looks leagues ahead graphically. No other console game matches what is does and it does it at 1080P60.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Also, if you knew anything about Respawn, they've modified - and in some cases completely rewritten - the Source code to take advantage of new tech. What they've been saying is that the Xbone version may not run at 1080P60.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

Forza 5 does look good, but it's using the same baked lighting tech Forza 3 used. Driveclub, on the other hand, is using full dynamic lighting with trackside detail and density that Forza can't match. The team have also stated, on multiple occasions, that they are aiming for 60 fps at launch.

Badassbab4309d ago

JP1369

Titanfall target frame rate is 60 for both SP and MP and as far as I can tell TF looks like the smoother game with more freedom of movement and with a lot more going on, Warzone looks to be the corridor MP experience from the video seen thus far and I can bet my bottom dollar it will be a perceptual 60fps while Titanfall will be more rock solid. As I said earlier Source has been heavily modified for TF but it's still not a ground up Xbone game engine like Killzone SF is on PS4 so it's still not a fair comparison. You can see the Source heritage right off the bat. Plus GG are masters of pushing hardware to the limit. Forgot to mention latency will most likely be superior on TF too.

I would hope Driveclub ends up looking better than F5 (not seen any evidence yet) since it's running at half the frame rate! The trackside detail and lighting you speak of, I don't see anything amazing over FM5. Also I would be surprised if DC turns up as a solid 60fps game. It may like GT5 be perceptual which I guess is ok for some.

Nocando4310d ago (Edited 4310d ago )

PS4: 1152 Shaders
Xbone: 768 Shaders

PS4: 72 Texture units
Xbone: 48 Texture units

PS4: 32 ROPS
Xbone: 16 ROPS

All of which amount to what? A few more FPS? A better texture here and there? Those are the cold hard facts, my friend.
However, if you want to talk specs, here is a great analogy: I have seen 4 cylinder cars beat 8 cylinder muscle cars in the quarter mile at a local track. It's not the horsepower, its what you do with it.

4310d ago
JP13694310d ago

Actually, it's torque, which is the baseline measurement for horsepower, that does it. I've also seen 4 cylinders that have more power than an 8. As has already been mentioned, your analogy is inaccurate and serves only to display your ignorance of cars, physics and tech.

Nocando4310d ago

Hey everybody, look at how much of an ahole DayZ is, he just PMed me this little gem:

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, so i'll forgive your ignorance.However, that analogy was just plain autistic.

You should be embarrassed, honestly.

4310d ago Replies(2)
DonFreezer4310d ago

Name one graphics card retailer that mentions those specs or shut your fucking mouth.The Sony pr bullcrap should stop. Just one retailer that has information on the rops and texture units of a graphics card.

+ Show (17) more repliesLast reply 4309d ago
MASTER_RAIDEN4311d ago

not sure what any of this means, but idc. just give me a next gen gta 5.

NOW PILE ON THE DISAGREES!

SchwoererBear4310d ago

Your comment makes more sense to me than anything on this thread. processor this and core that, IDK what da faque these people are talking about! show me the games! show me the games! I will pick a system and I will play games

KwietStorm_BLM4311d ago

Where is that article asking when did gamers stop caring about games?

Kingnichendrix4310d ago

if you are talking about graphics it is pretty nice to have a game thats also nice to look at you know. Imagine zelda ocarina of time with xbox one or ps4 graphics that would be the best or even imagine playing the ocarina through the kinect haha that would be funny

titletownrelo4310d ago

when they started caring more about pointless bragging rights, rather than having fun.

I've been coming to this site and others for months, and the people on here are really starting to disgust me.

Who gives a flying f*ck on what product some RANDOM person on the internet is getting!?

And then to try to make whatever console you're getting sound more superior than the other...to make yourself feel better is incredibly CHILDISH!

-Mine has more RAM!
-Well, mine has a better launch line-up!(even though I'll probably only buy one of the games)
-Oh yeah, well, the graphics of games on mine look better than yours!

This is all so...pointless

Show all comments (236)
210°

Activision Forces Adverts into Call of Duty Black Ops 6 and Warzone Loadouts

With the launch of Call of Duty Season 4, Activision quietly put adverts inside loadouts for Black Ops 6 and Warzone, sparking a backlash in the process.

15d ago
15d ago
lukasmain15d ago

Putting Ads in a pay-to-play Premium title? Well done Microsoft. Well done /s This is really scummy.

jjb198115d ago

This game will never change because these sweatlords love buying up all the skins and bundles that become obsolete the following year. They're the ones perpetuating Activision's greed.

VenomUK14d ago

If Microsoft introduces adverts into its other games I hope it can do them without disrupting the immersion of the game world. So for example in the new Fable game it would look out of place if there was a billboard advertising Cadillacs.

A far better way to do it would be to have a wizard conjure a 'dream cloud' in front of your character and then in the cloud you can see the Cadillac car and see the text with price and availability and hear a booming sales voice promoting the car. That would work so well as it wouldn't be a billboard and completely, 100%, fit in with your character's adventuring in Albion. Doesn't that sound so much better?!

crazyCoconuts14d ago

@venom, or how about our of 100 farts in Albion, 1 of them has a Cadillac pop out

VenomUK14d ago

@crazyCoconuts That’s undeniably off-beat - but it could really work!

15d ago
Show all comments (19)
410°

Xbox's first-party handheld has been sidelined

Xbox's handheld ambitions continue unabated, but the focus is shifting towards improving Windows 11 for third-party handhelds — for now. The Xbox Series X 'Melrose' successor is safe, with development continuing at full pace.

Read Full Story >>
windowscentral.com
17d ago
17d ago
17d ago
shadowT17d ago

Is there really a market for handhelds next to mobile?

Vits17d ago

If they run the same games as the main home console, then yeah, sure.
But if they need specially tailored games just for them? Probably not, unless there isn't a home console for comparison (see Switch).

RaidenBlack16d ago (Edited 16d ago )

I am kinda low-key happy this happened.
Dont want another Series S situation (games to be designed from 4 to 12TF scale and not 10 to 12TF).
Hope PS follows suit as well. Tablet SKU sharing with console for 10th gen, will just continue the cross gen -esque development/design phase/nature.
Want a proper 20+ only TF rasterized next-gen plz (+ frame-gen and the lot).
If anybody wants to continue the cross-gen, the Series S|X, PS5 will remain for that. And Switch 2, if you gotta go even lower in the TF range.

ABizzel117d ago

Yes and No. All of the PC handhelds combined have struggled to sell 7 million units, which would be a flop for any “console”. So the market is extremely niche because of price and target market (the informed hardcore gamer / casuals aren’t picking these up).

These handheld PCs are $500 or more, and offer at best Xbox Series S performance levels, so it’s best for MS specifically to just partner with ASUS, instead of investing millions if not billions.

Sony can make their own with custom AMD hardware due to their partnership, and stronger global brand for hardware. But even then it brings the question, of being a lower resolution PS5, and what does that mean for PS6 cross-gen (likely another generation where the first 3 - 4 years are just upgraded last-gen games).

Kosic17d ago

Imagine a Wii U style console, where the tablet doesn't rely on the console it's self, you download the game on the console under the TV and play in 4k glory, then you can remote play, get some unique game features if using both console and handheld in tandem. Then you can download the games in 720-1080p to play on the go, continue your progress, and continue on the TV when you get back.

Sony could get away with this due to exclusives, and that would be a reason for sales. Look at the portal.

I can picture seeing new hardware having some sort of GPU dock, where the handheld runs 1080p, and the dock has additional hardware to bring in 4k/60 specs.

I do think handheld gaming is going to be a strong future, imagine Nintendo release a new upgraded GPU dock for the Switch 3, every 2 years. More frames, sharper graphics on the same game for an extra £150 for a dock with a built in GPU chip. Console cycles doesn't have to be renewed, just the hardware can be improved by them reselling docks to us again and again with small/yearly upgrades like mobile phones.

GamerRN16d ago

Did you just imply that Sony can make a better stronger handheld than Microsoft? You do realize we are talking about Microsoft, the tech giant, right? If Microsoft can't make one that's cost effective, Sony definitely can't...

Brand and market share means nothing when you are a trillion dollar company

ABizzel116d ago

@GamerRN

It has nothing to do with what company can do it, or what company can spend.

For anyone taking a basic business class there is a term called ROI, and Xbox home consoles are selling at an all time low, meaning their ROI on a handheld is a risk that doesn’t make sense, even if they can afford it. Businesses are there to make money and it doesn’t make sene for MS to invest in a handheld that’s a companion device when their current home consoles they’ve spent 20 years working on are at an all time-low, when they can invest with little risk with what ASUS already has to offer.

This is why Sony can build a better device, because they have less risk involved, meaning they can invest more in their own product, and they already have an exclusive partnership with AMD on creating features and hardware. So in this specific case, YES Sony can built a better handheld, due to custom hardware, customer tools, low level APIs, compared to an off the shelf product running Windows or a Window Xbox kernel =.

TheEroica17d ago

I play steam deck primarily... Don't play consoles or mobile. The deck covers it all.

badz14916d ago

@shadowT

The Switch is a handheld, so will the Switch 2. what are you on about?

Cacabunga16d ago

To run native games offline? Anytime

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 16d ago
CrashMania17d ago

Funny to see the alt already damage controlling and having a meltdown with multiple accounts in the comments already.

Sad for MS if true, a dedicated handheld would go down a lot better than a rog ally 2 with an Xbox sticker on it I think.

crazyCoconuts17d ago

It couldn't have succeeded for a number of reasons. Now they've retreated to the Windows front and trying to keep that relevant for gaming. How long before Windows Central realizes there won't be a real console successor to Series X either?

Lightning7717d ago

Except there is. That project is reportedly full speed ahead.

Outside_ofthe_Box17d ago

@Lighting77

So was the handheld until today...

Lightning7717d ago

@outside obviously not since they sidelined it and they wanna see how the Asus does. Are you saying they're gonna cancel the next console?

crazyCoconuts17d ago

@lightning - I'm admittedly trying to box you in here - Do you think the next Xbox console will have Steam on it?

Outside_ofthe_Box17d ago (Edited 17d ago )

@Lightning

Here we go with having to spell everything out.

If I told you yesterday that Xbox was going to sideline the handheld console what would your response have been? Probably something along the lines of "I doubt that since Phil has been talking about it for some time now"

My point is just because they are "full speed" ahead now does not mean that will not change in future. As we have seen with the handheld. Do you understand what I'm trying to say now?

Lightning7717d ago (Edited 17d ago )

Box me in? No you said the same thing you've always been saying for years now. Those are the rumors to have Steam integration.

What about it

If you told me they were gonna cancel it tomorrow it would nothing more than fanboy talking points. I only wait for credible sources not what someone else says.

Also this is the handheld not a full blown new console. The Asus is yet to release and they're waiting to see how that thing does. Critical thinking is my strong suit you should try it some time if you can. But Ok cool well you hang your hat on that I guess. Main New console is gonna get cancelled even though the handheld is a different marketing device than the main the console itself.

__y2jb16d ago

I think there is a 75% chance there will not be another Xbox. There is zero reason to buy one now. No way it can possibly sell more than 10m units after Xbox went third party.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 16d ago
BLow17d ago

That's what they do. Goalposts shift like the wind.

I'm really confused on why they are making a "first party" device and also have a Rog Ally with their sticker on it. Make this make sense. How is their own device going to be any different?

Your console doesn't sell and they expect a handheld to?

RaidenBlack16d ago (Edited 16d ago )

The Rog Ally one is gen agnostic ... as you deciphered, it was to be the updated Rog Ally but just with Xbox branding. PC handheld with some Xbox features.
The handheld Xbox is/was supposed to be sharing the same gen/ecosystem with the next-gen (10th gen) Xbox. Think Series S but handheld ... it'll run the Xbox OS or whatever the next Xbox will run.
...
As for anybody wondering/confused why MS is doing another Xbox console ... coz mainly its the 10th gen of home consoles next, which started wayy back in 1972 for the 1st gen. And MS wanna be part in it, in the 10th anniversary gen of consoles. If they gotta bow out, they can't do that at 9th i.e just before 10th. They wanna stick around till the 10th or the X-th gen and check what the fuss happens.

Outside_ofthe_Box17d ago

Curious as to what excuses the spam was saying. Because prior to this news, the Xbox handheld was used as proof that Xbox is still committed to the hardware space. This handheld being scraped is not a good sign...

17d ago
Outside_ofthe_Box17d ago (Edited 17d ago )

@Spam
You can replace scrapped with pushed back if you like. It's not a good sign either way.

17d ago
1Victor17d ago

asq3= obscured: “ What’s your source on the handheld being scrapped? “
Read the article from Microsoft own website and one of your favorite quotations site when it’s something bad about Sony.
Oh BTW good luck with your next SPAM account.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 16d ago
Show all comments (77)
200°

FTC drops case against Microsoft’s Activision Blizzard deal

The FTC has officially dropped its case against Microsoft’s acquisition of Activision Blizzard.

Read Full Story >>
theverge.com
slate9124d ago

The sweet smell of tax dollars burning

Killa7824d ago

From the unemployment this deal caused, no doubt.

Obscure_Observer24d ago

"The sweet smell of tax dollars burning"

They never stood a chance. It was a lost cause from the start. And yet, still, they´d decided to go ahead and double down on their bs to bleed the taxpayer even more.

dveio24d ago

The IRS demands 29bn USD in not paid taxes from Microsoft.

If we're talking bleeding.

1Victor24d ago (Edited 24d ago )

@slate: “ The sweet smell of tax dollars burning “

The smell of political donations endorsements under the table.
There I fixed it it for you
We all knew Microsoft plan of “10 years of all systems publishing “ and some of its supporters happy that after all the games would be “exclusive to Xbox “ now that things have changed and Microsoft got humbled by the lost of money from CoD going down from OVER A BILLI🤑N to
MILLI😩NS the sales failing of games that would released on PlayStation and be forced by INVESTORS asking for their M🤑NEY to grow faster than the next 10 years it is obvious that it would be a waste of money to continue this litigation.
Edit:@obscured: “ They never stood a chance. It was a lost cause from the start “

Same as your grievance stages.
Have you passed the bargaining stage yet ? Or are you still on the anger stage 🤣

slate9123d ago

I knew my singe bipartisan sentence would bring out the crazies. Thanks for the wall

Astrokis23d ago

Not sure if I’m disturbed or entertained but either way I hope you are alright

OtterX24d ago

I think they're convinced now that MS won't (and can't) withhold releases from conpeting platforms. MS on the street corner now like, "Who wants a taste?!"

PhillyDonJawn24d ago

I wont be too sure of that. Gotta wait and see till after these deals expire

OtterX24d ago

That's how it always starts, "I'll just work this street corner for a short while until I get caught up on my bills..."

Tacoboto24d ago

Oh yeah, they're totally gonna make Xbox exclusives again, with the hardware they're totally committed to selling and making available lol

raWfodog24d ago

As far as I'm aware, the only 'deal' that was discussed was for Call of Duty. Xbox had no obligation to make any of their other games multiplatform. They did that of their own accord.

OtterX23d ago (Edited 23d ago )

**btw, I'm talking about street food vendors, just in case there's any confusion!

https://external-content.du...

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 23d ago
Lightning7724d ago (Edited 24d ago )

I've seen videos and talk a online speculating MS long game. Some think that MS multiplat move is use to appease the FTC so they can buy more and is somehow a move that could get Sony to open up their platform. In other words them going third party and letting their games go everywhere. MS possible scheme and ulterior motives, speculated by Jeff Grubb is that putting Xbox store on PS via regulation Which would hurt PS buissness very badly because that 30% cut would be even less or not a cut at all. MS buys more because they're "playing nice" by opening up its platform to Epic store and steam which would force Apple and Sony to open up their ecosystem to other stores like MS.

If that's the case that'll mean as I said before, PS fans buying Cod on PS via MS store would give 100% maybe even 90% of the money being pocketed by MS while Sony's store front wanes when it comes to third party because guess what? MS is buying more third party and preying off the extreme ignorance of the FTC. Manipulation of the FTC and MS overtaking the PS store and customers

My thing is this. I know it's a opinion and speculation but why does Sony have to open up its store or force them to go multiplat? If they still believe in selling their freakin console then let them do it. If they want to provide the best games and the best content for its fans then let them do it!? Why because the competition is trash at selling games and consoles for 14 years now Sony has to change? MS using the ignorance of the FTC to overtake gaming as we know it?

Again it's just talk and opinion but man this seems very, very possible imo.

dveio24d ago

Well, at the time, I actually did think the FTC and CMA did a poor job in court. But also the judge.

Having said that - it is what it is.

If 75bn mergers in any industry ain't a threshold to deny them, then I don't know what is.

As far as your thoughts about other 3rd parties getting taken over in the future go:

I think publisher buyouts are off the list now. I think it would be reeeeally difficult for MS to win another trial try taking over any other publisher.

But smaller studios ... maybe.

However, right now I can't see studios out there advocating for a buyout from Microsoft.

That isn't to say an announcement of such couldn't drop on Monday already. Because we today know that Microsoft had approached a plethora of other studios in 2018 to 2021, such as IOI, CD Project, etc.

We'll see. And we can't do anything about it. It's up to trade commissions and then probably courts to decide.

Lightning7724d ago (Edited 24d ago )

"I think publisher buyouts are off the list now. I think it would be reeeeally difficult for MS to win another trial try taking over any other publisher."

That's the thing MS is ticking all the boxes by not have anything be exclusive so the CMA/FTC see that they're doing "fair practice" in games and content distribution. Which technically greenlits more aquisions or it makes it easier for acquisitions because MS is a mega publisher now.

"However, right now I can't see studios out there advocating for a buyout from Microsoft."

Hopefully not but them going multiplat could entice Studios to join MS because nothing is not longer exclusive which means more money for them, studio and teams.

We can't do nothing about it but Sony can. They can block xbox games on their console (lose that 30% cut) but Sony won't do that because that's money that will be lost and Sony runs a buissness. That's the only way to hurt or slow down Xbox.

I'm probably over thinking it as I do these things but it's something we shouldn't just ignore and be weary of MS motives here. I'm keeping an eye on them.

Rancegamerx24d ago

The idea that Microsoft is manipulating the FTC and forcing Sony to open its platform is silly and has no evidence to back it up. Microsoft’s multiplatform approach is 100% due to past failures and its laughable position in the gaming industry. Their best attempt was a fluke and a lie, brought on by Sony’s missteps and a poorly made machine that broke down too often.

Sony would never allow themselves to be "forced" to do anything; they control their platform and storefront perfectly fine without the need or desire to add an unnecessary Microsoft storefront. Even if, by some flaw on Sony’s part, Microsoft were able to introduce its store on PlayStation, Sony would adapt rather than collapse. Digital storefront competition already exists (Steam, Epic Games Store, Xbox Store), and PlayStation’s business won’t suddenly "wane."

Also, regulators like the FTC don’t operate on ignorance—they actively assess market behavior to prevent monopolies. Microsoft isn’t secretly overtaking gaming with some ultimate scheme. The industry might be changing or shifting (for the worse, in my opinion), but Sony will continue evolving based on market trends, not because of alleged schemes.

Gaming isn’t about one company "playing nice" or another being "forced" to change—it’s about making money with games, something Microsoft has yet to achieve in 25+ years.

Lightning7724d ago

"The idea that Microsoft is manipulating the FTC and forcing Sony to open its platform is silly and has no evidence to back it up."

That's why I said it was all speculation that's what Jeff Grubb opinion. I made that clear several times. You know what's funny? When Jim was in court ppl got mad at the FTC for protecting Jim Ryan instead of the consumer. Maybe he was right to worry about his business. Now look Releasing Xbox games on PS keeps MS studio an a float. Now Xbox games are all over PS now. Maybe Jim was onto something.

MS is still competing with Sony just in a very different way. The FTC back down mainly means they can buy more and MS next steps can proceed. We'll have to see what happens in the future but I wouldn't be so sure on your stance.

InUrFoxHole23d ago

@Lightning77
MS putting games everywhere is the most consumer friendly thing I've seen a game company do.

dveio23d ago

@InUrFox

What does "putting everywhere" actually mean?

This book has so many pages.

• Xbox was dying in revenue
• Regulators put a 10 year deal on CoD
• Microsoft had to give away the streaming
• Spencer himself only offered 3 yrs initially

And most importantly

• Again, Xbox was dying in revenue

Xbox have the benefit of their actual financial situation giving regulators and courts the impression they release games everywhere, what they actually do.

But for reasons they can't be proven guilty of anything in court.

I'm not judging, it's just what it is.

IF the Series generation would have developed differently and was much more successful, I don't hesitate any second to believe in what Spencer had originally planned to do:

• Make everything Xbox exclusive
• We today know that Spencer had also approached Sega, From Software, CD Project, Nintendo, and even Valve was on their list of buyouts.

MS are playing a card here everyone knows why they are doing it.

Putting Doom "everywhere", which even was it already before it got bought, ain't a MS thing.

It would had hurt them in many ways if they'd put it exclusively to Xbox.

But, no matter what - it is what it is.

Xbox bought themselves back into the game. And I think many people just don't have very fond feelings towards this behaviour, wether on corporate nor private levels.

Let's see how they'll run with it.

In 2030, but most importantly after regulations will have expired we will learn better.

Reaper22_24d ago (Edited 24d ago )

Seemed like a lost cause anyway. Microsoft gambled and it paid off big time. That's what you call a big boss move. Sony played a huge part in the success of that acquisition.

wesnytsfs24d ago

Bout time. Pointless from the start.

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