With Kinect no longer required, will we get a $399 Xbox One?

Geek: Ever since Microsoft first revealed the Xbox One it has been criticized for a number of the included features deemed as standard and forward looking. And in response, Microsoft has repeatedly reversed those decisions.

The once always-connected machine that incorporated a used game management system, an always-on and always-connected Kinect sensor, and no room for self-publishing indie developers, is now a console you can run offline, can trade used games freely, has embraced indie developers, and as of yesterday, no longer requires the Kinect sensor be plugged in.

Gamers can finally stop complaining about the Xbox One, right? Well, there is one more feature that hasn’t been met with too much enthusiasm: the price. The biggest remaining advantage the PS4 definitely has over the Xbox One is the $100 price difference. But could that also now change?

[cl1983]

Microsoft has said no

[golding89]

Thank god they say no. At least with it bundle, developers will have an incentive to make kinect games better.

[user7402931]

i know atleast half a dozen people who wont get it because they wont lower the price to 399

[CerebralAssassin]

I doubt it would drop to 399 even if they did do a stand alone system. The kinect would retail for more then 100. Based on capabilities, id say closer to 180-200. If microsoft really wanted to take control, they would do a stand along system for 350-380 just to attempt to gain some momentum back in their favor.

[pompombrum]

They've said no about a lot of things and "flipped the switch" haven't they? Having said that though, the only way we will see a kinectless Xbox One would be if sales are way below expectations.. and to be fair, with Microsoft's marketing, that's very unlikely.

[Lucreto]

golding89

I know people who won't ever plug it in.

Once developers see this it will be sent to die like the playstation eye.

[kayoss]

@golding89
out of curiousity, how many launched games uses Kinect for the xbox one? This is not an attempt at trolling, i really want to know.

[fossilfern]

But I want a choice.... Im still getting an XB1 but I DO NOT want the kinect its ugly and no interest to me. I might try and sell it but I probably wont get much for it,.

[rainslacker]

Where was that incentive to make them better for the 20 million Kinect buyers this gen? 20 million is a pretty decent install base...

Where is the incentive for MS to actually show us some Kinect games that will be available on launch that are enticing enough to sell the Kinect 2.0 with the console?

Seriously, why can not a single person on here answer these questions whenever I ask them.

Why do you believe Kinect 2.0 will be implemented any better than Kinect 1.0.

Why is everyone taking MS at their word on how awesome Kinect 2.0 will be when they outright lied about it's capabilities with the Kinect 1.0?

Why does everyone all of a sudden love motion controls?

Someone tell me please...because I'm beating my head against the desk trying to figure it out.

[s8anicslayer]

@cl1983

That really doesn't mean much at this point!

[Rai]

Yeah...at this point I wouldn't trust anything MS says..

With all this 180 turnaround, I'm expecting it.

[Neixus]

It's quite funny with the 180s, they've done two of them, thus making a 360. Now the console is pretty much like the xbox360.

EDIT: my mistake, they did actually try something new, but the majority disliked it sooo yeah. which is understandable. They only seemed to cater for american audience, as anyone else in EU would find it akward to talk to the xbox in english, as that is not our main language.

[CerebralAssassin]

@neixus ive said the same about the ps4 from the beginning. At least MS attempted to try something different. Its not their fault the majority of the gaming community had sand in their nether regions.

I remember a time when making the customers happy ment something. MS is attempting to do just that with the "180" policy changes but a damned if you damned if you dont situation.

[jessupj]

@ CerebralAssassin

The Nazi's tried something new, should we praise them for that as well?

I'm getting a little tired of people saying 'at least MS tried something difference, at least they were trying to bring us the future.'

NO, just no.

MS were trying to give a big F you to gamers and give themselves as much control as possible at the gamers expense.

We had sand in our vagina? No, we had actual standards and weren't prepared to just bend over and take it.

[Studio-YaMi]

Seriously I don't know what MS is thinking,they announce that the damned thing is required and that's why it was bundled with each Xbox1 and now they say it's NOT required but you STILL have to shell out $100 extra for something that you might "never" use.

$100 dollars right there gone down the drain,great marketing there ! :D

They are just desperate at this point,they just want to appeal to their customers after losing almost half of them,I mean PS4 selling 3 to 1 and 4 to 1 the amount of Xbox1 sold(pre-ordered) is saying A LOT right now,they are tasting the heat.

I mean going back on most of the policies you announced is a sign that you are pissing a lot of people,and I'm sure bundling the Kinect2 with the Xbox1 STILL after knowing that it's not required will AGAIN bite them back.

@Disagrees
So you're not bothered with the fact that you're paying an extra $100(total=$499) for something that you will not use ?

Then with all do respect,you are idiots.

[golding89]

"something that you will not use ? "

who told you i won't use it?
Who told you other people won't use it?

lol dude shut up

[Studio-YaMi]

@golding89

Umm,then who says I'm talking to you ? I think I clearly stated that I'm addressing the people who AREN'T gonna use the thing but still willing to shell $100 exta for.

Thanks for proving your idiocy to everyone,,now shush!

[VENOMACR]

I dont want the Kinect, but since its included I'll find a use for it. Skype with my family and friends since its a 1080p camera, maybe try some games out. The whole point of Kinect was something new and different and they bundled it to get people interested in it and try it out. If it wasn't bundled, I would never buy it. But since it is I'll use it. And why is the $400 PS4 ok but $500 for X1 is outrageous? When you buy the PS4, you'll end up picking up games and controllers and spend close to $600 or more. So its funny that everyone has the money and has no problem dishing out an extra $200-$300 for extras, but the $100 kinect add on is outrageous.

And at least Microsoft is making changes and listening to the consumers and looking at the sales number. What company wants to make a shitty product or one that fails? Look at your beloved Sony last year. They introduced the system at $600 or $700 and basically said "screw you this is what were launching it with and this is what it's going to cost, buy it or dont buy it." Everyone's screaming for X1 to lower it's price when it's more powerful, comes with more functionality, includes Kinect, and its still $100-$200 cheaper then the old PS3 launched at. Both systems are a great value for what you get for your money.

[jackanderson1985]

won't use it at the moment but can you honestly say down the line if they perfect it's implementation into a major blockbuster of a game you'll downright refuse to use it because u didn't like it at the start of the generation?

the original kinect was fun during small house parties like the Wii was great for the Wii Sports, the bowling and what not are great to have a laugh with... it caters to the casual market no doubt but correct implementation (the Ryse commands for the troops could be interesting) would make it a good addition to a majority of games without the overbearance of full motion control... i know the PS4 touchpad is using swiping motions for one of the functions in KZ (think a drone or something) imagine a similar function in a Halo game when you raise your hand and swipe it outwards a drone flies off in that direction... simple crap like that wouldn't be bad

all my own opinion of course everyone has their own and are free to use it

[CerebralAssassin]

Lmao, they lost half their customers??? Wanna source that for me? Cuz im callin BS. Who cares about preorders. That doesnt equal a sale. Nkt to mention it was easier to preorder ps4 then xbox one since it lasted longer.

them going back on policies means they want a successful product. To get that means making customers happy. You dont know what the hell your talking about.

I plan to use my kinect. Simple as that. Your voice doesn't represent the majority sir. Dont act like it does.

[gedden7]

100% AGREE WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The people who disagree are MORONS !!

[Darrius Cole]

I agree it's it going to come back and bite them. They basically announced to the world that they are forcing their customers to buy something that...
1) a sizable chunk of their fanbase doesn't want,
2) won't be used much in ANY 3rd party multi-plat titles, and
3) they don't have any first-party AAA franchises for.

Why make customers buy it then? The most logical answer is that they want the money.

People who would have otherwise bought an Xbone will start backing off and waiting for a cheaper version it to release without Kinect. Which will suppress their sales and force them to do it. This is going to bite them.

[mattdillahunty]

some user on n4g had one of the best quotes about Kinect once it was announced that it didn't have to be plugged in to use the console:

"if it is not required, then why am i required to buy it?"

that sums up how i feel about it perfectly. i actually tweeted that exact same question to Aaron Greenberg and Major Nelson, but i didn't get a response from either of them. lol.

[jackanderson1985]

while i post this bear in mind MS might well end up releasing a kinectless SKU,

but by including it in every box they're letting Devs know that every user of the xbox one will have a kinect in their house somewhere unless they dumped it... it'll allow devs to actual implement some kinect capabilities in the games knowing every xbox user will have the chance to experience it

[mattdillahunty]

i've heard that reasoning before, and i totally understand it. it does give developers a definitive knowledge that if they want to put something in a game, it won't be a waste because everybody will be able to experience it.

the problem, though, is that not everyone has shown that they WANT to experience what Kinect has to offer in games. and if those players don't want Kinect but are forced to buy it anyways, and at a price level above MS's direct competition, then maybe that will steer them away from purchasing a console. i mean, i doubt gamers are holding their breath waiting for core XB1 games that implement Kinect and take gaming to a whole new level.

so while i get the developer logic behind it, i just think that MS has (once again) misread what the people want. the problem with Kinect, though, is that they spent a ton of time, money and research on it. so this isn't something they can just say, "oops, our bad!" and move on from. they're kinda stuck with it, and so are we.

for those who don't want an XB1 with Kinect, i think the best they can hope for is sometime down the road MS releases a Kinect-less console for cheap, once they've already got some sort of install base going. but for now, i think they've put so much money and effort behind it that they have to try to put it in as many households as they can.

[rainslacker]

@jack

That's a reasonable assumption, and a very valid one. However, it probably won't make that much of a difference. Most developers aren't likely to implement Kinect controls in a meaningful manner when there is little incentive for them to do so. Just because it's available, doesn't mean it gets done.

The Wii itself had the WiiMote implemented in every game, because it was the only controller released with every console. The Wii U controller though is a regular controller with a touch screen, and the touch screen functions are hardly utilized in any meaningful way. The X1 still has a traditional controller though, so it's likely to remain the default.

No doubt some functionality will be implemented just to have that "Better with Kinect" logo stamped on the box. There will also be those inspired devs who want to try something cool, and maybe something good will come of it. Until then though, I see it more as devs will mostly disregard it, unless MS gives some sort of incentive to make it "Better with Kinect".

[Donnieboi]

Microsoft has said a lot of things. And have done a 180 on peactically everything that they've once stubbornly held onto. So if xbox one pre orders STILL don't pick up, all that's left is the price point to cut. And the first thong to go will be that kinect of the want to match ps4's launch price.

[jackanderson1985]

they've only really done two 180s... the DRM and mandatory kinect... the indie stance and headset weren't officially announced by MS so can't really call that backtracking.

but the major ones came either when Mattrick was in the process of leaving or long gone so maybe the new head released he was pretty much stunting the Xbox one and went in a new direction to build the customer base up.

No-one knows the official pre-order numbers because no-one has released them.... i've heard rumors of Gamestop saying it was 4-1 but without actual numbers this could be a huge number or a tiny number in difference.

personally i'd love a price cut just so i could buy even more games at launch but 500 isn't a deal breaker at the moment

[Donnieboi]

@ Jack Anderson:

MS's stance with indies was made clear before their 180. As well as the microphone/headset.

They specifically said NO headset.

http://n4g.com/news/1304338...

They specifically said NO to Indie self publishing (and had reservations after it 180'd that)

http://n4g.com/news/1294668...

Now their changing their tune. Which is a "good" thing for gamers everywhere. However, I personally refuse to support a company that tried to take away my rights. I will stick to the company that never tried to do that in the first place.

[pompombrum]

If they released an Xbox One the same price as the ps4, I'd pick one up day one.

[bub16]

But No to microsoft later means yes? they changed their whole sales pitch since their launch event and e3 lol

[andrewsqual]

Definitely. Its just another Microsoft "listening to their customers" where they simply remove another barrier enforced alone by themselves.
Why would it be any trouble at all to simply not put something in a box and let a measly software update fix it? It raises the question of why any of these restrictions were heavily enforced to begin with.

[SIX]

My prediction is that they will not. They are going to sell out during the holidays at 500. Who knows what will happen after.

[dcj0524]

I GUARANTEE that somebody will sale a used XBOX ONE kinectless
For $400-$450. Mark my words in permanant market.

[T2]

Used ? A used xbone is worth 350 tops how is used xbone worth more than a new ps4 ?

[Neonridr]

Possible, but very unlikely. Microsoft will want to ensure as many people as possible have the Kinect sensor. They no longer want it to be an optional add-on that only some people own. They want it to become an optional add-on that everyone owns. ;)

This way at least developers can build games with Kinect in mind if they wish, knowing that everyone will at least have the sensor, regardless if it is plugged in or not.

[ThatCanadianGuy514]

It's not like there was a must have kinect game in the first place.Atleast nothing worthwhile enough to justify losing their potential marketshare against a $400 price point.

I have no doubts whatsoever a cheaper, kinect-less sku is in the works.

[pompombrum]

This, despite all these 180s, I'm scratching my head as to what Microsoft are thinking with all this kinect stuff. I barely know anyone who was interested in it and those who were, I haven't seen play a kinect game since Gunslinger was released. I owned kinect for a few months and outside of fitness based games, Can't see it ever being something I will be interested in. Not to mention you always needed a controller too because the menus were really fiddly to do with the hands.

Not only that though, they don't even have much kinect software out at launch. If they tried to justify the inclusion from the get go and show us why it's different from the first kinect and exactly why we should be excited, I'd be a little less cynical about it's mandatory inclusion.

[rainslacker]

Why would a dev care if everyone had the sensor, if only a fraction of the people that own it are actually using it? Publishers look at active install base as well, and that number is much more important, particularly when matched up against the type of games that those active users play.

If a publisher wants to make a Kinect game for the Kinect active users, they are free to do so. Those people would probably have Kinect anyways.

I understand that MS believes people will use it if they include it, because a lot of people probably will. But that doesn't mean that the device is something that people would actively search out or even want.

That's where the current arguments are coming from. If those people want an X1, why should they HAVE to buy the Kinect with it? People want the option to buy a Kinect-less console, that would likely be cheaper. I know personally I'd rather buy $100 worth of games than spend $100 for a system accessory that I wouldn't use for gaming. Not saying those people are right, what's available is what MS is willing to offer, but those people do have the right to voice their opinion, or vote with their wallets.

[Neonridr]

Absolutely I do agree that Microsoft should offer that feature. But I also understand where they are coming from. They want 100% market penetration with the Kinect Sensor. They spent hundreds of millions in R&D on this thing, the last thing they want is for it to sit there and collect dust.

This way everyone at least has one and they figure that more people will actually use the darned thing if there are more sensors out there.

Think of the Wii. Had Nintendo offered a regular standard controller and then came up with the remote as a separate add-on afterwards, how many people would have jumped on the whole motion control train? Probably significantly less and we wouldn't have seen the impact it truly had on the marketplace if Nintendo hadn't made it mandatory with their Wii system.

[MizTv]

More like $350

[JBSleek]

I doubt it.

They still want a 100% attachment rate. This was likely done to calm the whole NSA is watching you fiasco not to make a Kinect-less SKU.

[Cmk0121]

folks just whine to whine, they made a product if you like it buy it if not dont. Internet whining is going to have this thing turn into the ouya or some ish.

[JBSleek]

I really think people are getting more mad because they are running out of things to be mad about when it comes to the Xbox One.

[Funantic1]

Amen

[dethpuck]

Exactly. Thank you trolls for nerfing the Xbox. At least I will be able to avoid kids and complainers with smart match

[Boody-Bandit]

(IMHO) I am going on record saying without question there will be a SKU announced without Kinect for $399 or possibly even cheaper. Possibly as soon as Gamecom next week.

MS is chipping away at their restrictions a little at a time trying to get their demand up. So far they have made "some" strides but no where near enough or they would not keep announcing these reversals. The next one will be a price cut because price is everything. Just look what MS did with the 360 and all their SKU's. Currently they are still a $100 more than their competition. Without Kinect that can match or exceed that point.

Do people honestly believe the "ONLY" reason they did this was because of the privacy issue? They need to match or surpass their competitor in value. Their original game plan has been put in a shredder and MS is basically winging it as they go throwing whatever they can at the wall and seeing what sticks.

To be honest I don't think they will stop at a price cut. MS made too many mistakes already. The biggest is a loss of trust. How, can anyone here answer, will they get that back? Is it even possible and how much do you guys think it matters? At this point there isn't any announcement from MS that would surprise me in the least but I am very interested to see what direction they will head next.

[JBSleek]

"Do people honestly believe the "ONLY" reason they did this was because of the privacy issue?"

Yes.

[IcicleTrepan]

It's not going to happen.

[cyberninja]

They can sell it for $50 and i still not gonna get it.

[Funantic1]

The turtle (MS) is catching up.

[The Meerkat]

Just -$100, +0.5tf, +>1gb Ram, a change of management and some more exclusive studios and MS will be the front runner.

[tigertron]

Well a Kinect-less SKU would certainly interest me. I have no interest in buying a product that I don't want to use.

[etownone]

It's inevitable a Sku without Kinect will be released.
Just not this year.

Xbox One will sell out when released to all the early adaptors.
And thus a solid base of Kinect 2.0 out there.

[SaturdayNightBeaver]

Even if xbox is 299$ im still going for ps4 ..

[Rimeskeem]

Same but if they do this and the price comes to 199$ In the future and halo 5 comes it might be reasonable to get it

[SaturdayNightBeaver]

your choice if u really like halo and think its worth it, but thats about it when we talk exclusive games :)

[SynestheticRoar]

Yes it only a matter of time. I know some people who purchase the 499 one are going to feel like lollipops. They might be more than a little butt hurt.

[Funantic1]

I'd like to thank the sony fanboys for what the X1 is becoming. Thru their complaining, protesting, petitions, and trolling they've sculpted a fine machine in the X1. Now the X1 has no DRM restrictions, no always online, no mandatory Kinect connection, free family XBL gold, free XBL games, and possibly backwards compatibility. Keep working hard for the Kinectless SKU and lower price and you just might get it.

[cyberninja]

Too bad xbox fanboys didn't stand up for their rights, they just bent over for ms and praised all the restrictions...

[rainslacker]

Maybe if the Xbox fans had gone out and pre-ordered the system more you'd still have your restrictive DRM/always connected/indie unfriendly/Kinect required console. Maybe if more of them were vocal during the initial reveal stage and actually voiced their support for that DRM you'd have it too. They were noticeably silent...or rather they were just as pissed as everyone else. Yes, I'm afraid that not all Xbox fans are fan boys, and many of them have minds of their own to realize what MS was trying to do was a bad thing for the industry, and the consumer.

Hate to break it to you, but Sony fans were not standing outside GameStop threatening Xbox fans if they pre-ordered the system. Sony fans were not hacking Xbox fans computers preventing them from pre-ordering from Amazon.

You can blame the Xbox fans just as much as the Sony fans. By your logic, it's the Xbox fans who were lethargic and uncaring about the future of Xbox. All Sony fans did was add their voice to the discontent...sometimes rudely...but the feelings were not contained to just Sony fans.

[Ron_Danger]

They already said they wouldn't, except their track record as of late has been: 1) Make an announcement, 2) See what people say online, 3) change announcement to conform to what the majority says.

In other words, they just aren't confident in their product. They're like a woman who gets abused by their spouse. All they're trying to do is backpeddal and try to make all the vocal fanboys happy and are desperately trying to hope the masses forget how they originally tried to destroy consumers rights with their original policies.

Remember, it's not just a switch that can be turned off (and that switch can be turned back on just as easily).

[Nyromith]

I'll definitely buy a kinectless console for $400 or less. The exclusives look great so far and I really want to be a multi-platform gamer like I was this gen.

And the reason I prefer a kinectless SKU is the same reason kinect fans fear it so much - it ensures Microsoft will implement controls that don't require kinect, so people without it will not be blocked from the game for not using one.

[NeutralXP]

Get stuffed you will get a drop in price you dam whiners pay the full price so dam happy Kinect is still bundled with Xbox One

[Belking]

Yes we will, but after they sell enough of the kinect bundle ones. MS wants those kinects to get out there first.

[Lucreto]

They won't sell it without Kinect. For one shareholders and the development team will not be happy.

Secondly the Kinect costs nearly as much as the console and no one will buy it separately meaning all the R&D will have been a waste and left with stock sitting on the shelves. Look how much money they put into the controller and you can guess how much they put into Kinect.

[gedden7]

What's the uproar about lol you unpaid or "paid" fanboys are STUPID... Seriously! Lets play devils advocate..

1. You don't have to use it, but if you love the idea THEN YOU STILL GET ONE!! STUPID MINDLESS DRONES..

2. If MS decides to sale the Xbone cheaper by choosing to take it out the Kinect entirely THEN YOU CAN WASTE YOUR POOR MOTHERS OR FATHERS MONEY AND BUY IT the premium bundle... Whats the problem... No "?" because i know the answer to it, it's more of a statement..

[vigilante_man]

It all depends on what vision MS has (if any right now) for the XB1. If it wants to focus on being the living room entertainment centre then it will advertise as such and keep the Kinnect.

But who can honestly say what their real plans are?

[josephayal]

I'll be waiting for either a price drop or a Kinectless bundle before I jump back into the Xbox scene, $399.99 or 349.99 no more no less

[jay2]

You don't need Kinect. But we need your £150 still......

[ooquis]

They better. When they get crushed like they did with the hd war,i'd rather it be a fair one.

[Darkfist]

with all these u-turns, i still wont buy it.

[Rimeskeem]

Well if they did it would make the console like 349$ because the kinect was as expensive and this would make Sony need to rethink stuf about ps4 and how to make it even better hopefully making all gamers happier

[Rimeskeem]

I feel like MS listens to pre order sales and Sony before they listen to the costumer so what ever Sony does or pre orders do MS will go with that

[Sgt_Slaughter]

...What was Microsoft thinking by forcing a controller that NO ONE LIKES in the first place?!

They spent $150,000,000 on it, (supposedly), and they are going to regret this for the rest of the next generation.

BTW, it seems like all Microsoft has been doing for the past 1-2 months is correcting, reversing, or clarifying all of the features on the console instead of focusing on the games we will see on the Xbox One.