NowGamer: Dealing with third party developers 'was tricky', claims Sony's PS4 lead architect Mark Cerny.
PlayStation legend Mark Cerny discusses PS5, the challenges of making consoles, and his 42-year games industry career
Well... they used to design their own chips. Emotion Engine, Cell, RSX... when they switched to using X86 based chips is now more akin to low-mid cost PCs than before. It may not look like a PC but it pretty much is one. I'd bet it could do productivity stuff just fine if they allowed it to.
I think series consoles are closer to pc than playstation seeing as they used the full suite of rdna 2 functions, didn't Sony strip a lot of that away to streamline their machine to be games focused? Its probably lacking in the office and productivity department, don't ask me what their custom chip does or doesn't do I just remember reading a lot about at the time, "rdna 1.5" was the call and yet what we see is pretty much level pegging as far as games go
Actually, stripping that away doesn't streamline, it hinders. Those features are actually helpful for gaming.
And they didn't strip them out, they just didn't work closely enough to be able to use them all since specs weren't finalized. Microsoft took an inside line on that one.
The reason why things are equal is because Xbox rarely has games designed on their box, they are usually designed on PS5 and ported over. So Xbox loses the power edge it has to making up the poor optimization.
It's ok, I think the lesson is you have to have a significant increase in power of 30 percent or more to be noticeable. And you have to sell enough to become the lead console for development otherwise you lose that power.
@GamerRN
PS5 outperforms series x because it uses custom chips to process things that on xbox need to be done by the GPU/CPU.
Things like Tempest Audio, and it's custom compression chip for SSD as well as having a separate chip for upscaling using checkerboard and presumably FSR runs off it as well.
O please stop the myth that the seriesX mythe is the only console that is using the "the full suite or Rdna2" is already debunked al long time ago.
The consoles use video ram as system ram as well since it's all shared, so nah.
I have read it... I dont think anyone can build a PC that equates to the performance of a PS5/Series X for anywhere close to their selling point. Not for a while at least.
And my comment about them switching from custom chips to more PC related just adds to that fact. whether people want to believe it or not... Sony has built a low cost (not spec, there is a difference) PC.
We need better games on these consoles. This generation has been such a huge letdown so far. Moving forward these current consoles will be supported even when newer Playstation and Xbox are in the market. AAA games have been so expensive to make and it seems fun is taken out of games and loot boxes take their place. Try playing a NBA 2k game it's like a casino with slot machines
The cost of making these games is a scam
Nba 2k19 to 2k14 its like madden the budget to make went stupid high but the fundamental of the game and the game modes never changed.
Anything now even basic intersection construction is tens of millions but pre coivid few hundred grand.
2018 here is $400 landscaping now here is the pink slip to my car.
I swear the cost of everything is the same but there taking of that huge profit top for there own pockets.
The PS5 is incredibly customized.
The SSD, the Tempest Audio, the APU itself is a mix of cross generation AMD hardware in order to be more optimized for gaming and cost efficient.
The PS5 Pro also has features from cross generation AMD hardware with RT features from RDNA 4 plus it's own custom upscaler PSSR.
PlayStation 5 Pro features next-gen RDNA 4-based ray tracing engine, allows 2-3x faster RT
https://www.tweaktown.com/n...
PlayStation still uses custom designed hardware.
honestly... I dont know why some are taking offense to it being called a low cost PC. It really is... and low cost is a good thing. the article did not say low performance PC... that is totally different.
I'm saying they still are designing their own chips, they just use AMD templates.
The PS5 APU has features from RDNA 1 2 and 3, and the PS5 Pro adds features from RDNA 4, and the CPU is the same with it own customized features.
Then all of that is paired with other custom chips.
What you all said my rig in my bedroom can do it no issues
That plastic box has a 2020 cpu with the pro using a 2021 6700
The custom is do to them being dirt cheap with a 2 prong power supply so they made a cpu/gpu combo chip aka apu.
Get a amd laptop with there new mobile chips get the same performance.
Its this site even the head admin banned me for awhile being but hurt over my "anti" sony comments.
n4g is pro sony nothing sony will ever do can change that.
When you only look at the big flagship chips that seems true, but there's a lot going on in a modern console that takes advantage of being a dedicated kit. The various elements put into how the pipelines are connected shape the direction of games. End to end decryption and data streaming is something big that PC can only kind of do and with less certainty for example. Dedicated audio chip that rivals the main CPU in the PS4 is a big paradigm shift, devs used to fight for cores and audio was often last priority, whereas in traditional PC design the main CPU does both of those jobs of processing audio and decryption, while also performing all the other CPU based tasks.
It's not the custom silicon that used to be what made consoles but there's a lot more to consoles now. Data storage was not even a consideration and almost no RAM was on old consoles. Now there needs to be an enormous amount of SSD storage, and RAM to make these games tick with how much is demanded from them.
@darth
Your comment show how many sony blindboys are on here
You are 100% correct but to add on the gamecube-ps3 also had a gpu/cpu combo back in the day unlike modern consoles that are just glorified tablets using apu/igpu's.
I miss the ps3 era start of ps4 era that sony was awesome
Yah, hence the majority of the PS5’s hardware investment going towards an SSD instead of a GPU.
There are countless custom pc gaming rigs out there, and I bet none of them took an SSD-centric approach to their design, like the ps5 did.
LMAO wow sony blind boy's are mad in love
That is called direct storage windows 10 has had that for over 5 year's every computer with a nvme based ssd has had that tech for years.
https://www.thewindowsclub....
The ps6 will then have this new amazing tech you all will go crazy over resize bar
https://www.howtogeek.com/8...
But that tech has been out for 2 years all 40series gpu's intel gpus and the new amd cards have that tech.
There is nothing a ps5 can do over a 4+ year old computer 2019 rig want resize bar? get a cheap amd/intel card for half the cost of a ps5.
Clearly you did not watch Cerny’s first ps5 breakdown, so you don’t appreciate EVERYthing Cerny did to leverage their extremely fast SSD.
I can see where he’s coming from re ps5 not just being a box with parts like a pc. They must also spend an awful lot on r & d just to design the thing so it has aesthetic appeal and typical Japanese with some sort of Philosopy behind the design. Would also think other factors around the custom airflow and the like would cost a lot given that it’s not a standard box shape
true, but the alternative is, relatively, a expensive ordeal.
unless you dont game at all ha.
Just spent 2000k on a 4070ti super 7800x3d 1440p gaming pc. Honestly consoles will never be replaced at this wide a gap in price. I plan to get a ps5 pro too.
@mk
You waisted 2 grand you mean
At 1440p a amd4 chipset with a 5600x3d combined with a 6750xt even a 6800 can push 1440p just a much for half the cost or less used/new and or sales.
I have a 75hhz monitor in my bedroom 1440p playing games maxed out spent around 1200cad but aio 5800x3d 32gb of ram and a 6750xt 28 or 30 inch monitor.
Every time i hear pc so expensive i just laugh you can spend less than $500 buy a used ebay rig fix it up or a office pc toss in a cheap low profile card.
If you look into the hardware beyond just the CPU and GPU things start to look different, and there's plenty beyond just those two parts, those two parts even are modified to their own design in some degree.
Mark Cerny talks to Digital Foundry about how Dolby Atmos support made its way to PlayStation 5.
Cerny points out the advantage that DF keeps referring to as a disadvantage. Developers don't need to do anything special to have overhead sounds mapped to height speakers. It's all built in and processed lag free on existing and future PS5 games. This is obviously a superior approach imo as it works with virtually any speaker configuration.
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I like DF, but they’re starting to let personal bias seep into their talking points especially John, and the others are being occasional followers just to be non-confrontational.
Its just like the ps3 or any receiver over 8yrs old
2015 ps3 had support then got updated
https://games.dolby.com/new...
Man the ps5 is digging up the past to reveal its new hey are they going to have a menu next with native 7.1 audio support like my 2006 motor storm edtion ps3?.
I have an Atmos setup and in my case it definitely introduces some audio lag... probably around 10-20ms. The game I always use to test this sort of thing is Stray because of the dedicated meow button triggering the sound out of the Dual Sense. Makes it really easy to perceive a lack of audio sync. There's only one setting on PS5 that doesn't produce audio lag (at least with my setup), and that is Linear PCM.
The truth is that Atmos is superior. Plain and simple. The devil prefer it over what sony is providing. It's the standard for games, movies and music.
Only DTS:X is on on par with atmos. I understand Sony wanting to use their own but Atmos is superior which is why is used throughout the entertainment industry.
I'm trying to point out to you: PS5 is using Atmos. That's the whole point of this firmware update
From a hardware perspective, Atmos' 7.1.4 setup is indeed superior, but the software side of Atmos is far from superior. Dolby Atmos games (ISF) supports 32 objects and this is used in a 7.1.4 basebed + 20 dynamic object configuration most of the time. PS5's Tempest audio supports 100 dynamic objects, so it actually has to downmix the audio, dropping 68 objects in the process, to make it work properly over Atmos.
The truth is marketing is superior. Cant support something that kicks in after the scenes already ended lol
Ah yes Mark, becuase less channels on a watered down feature is something to geek out about. You do realize you are getting atmos light right? Not for audiophiles. Totally designed for craptastic sound systems. It's all about tagging that name for a selling point.
At least it works, what good is a feature that introduces latency to the point it’s potentially “3x as bad” with a certain setup? You can’t even use it and it’s supposed to be a partnership between the two companies….
So you know more then Mark Cerny..the man who made PS5 what it is now...the man who invented with his team the Tempest engine..., if you can read take a lot of tasks over from Atmos...
Woooow...you must be a genius in this field time to get a job In this expertise.
Mark Cerny is a true veteran of the games industry. His name might be familiar to modern gamers due to the fact that he's worked as lead architect on several of Sony's consoles – and has even had input into some of the company's major software releases, such as Knack, The Last Guardian, Marvel's Spider-Man and Death Stranding – but his career stretches back to the very early years of the games industry.
Lol, love this image...
https://images.timeextensio...
Look at the balls on Cerny! He really does though. One of the greatest minds in the industry and knows how to get things done!
100%.
I can’t recall which leaker it was but there was a rumour floating about that we may not see a mid-gen refresh (PS5 Pro) and they’re focusing on PS6 development.
Could listen to Cerny talk for hours. Incredibly intelligent individual.
@olMyerslo Tom Henderson is the insider who stated PS6 is being worked on over a PS5 Pro.
Is this available in video format? It's a damn long interview to read.. but I will, if no video
Could try using a "text to voice" app. Just copy and paste from the article then sit back and listen. I do that sometimes if don't want to read and am tired.
Thanks that's so nice of you but I don't need it that much! Il just read it. Just if there was himself on video I'd like that version. But have a great day my friend.x
I didn't like it very much, but cerny is truly a triple A Men. The ps4 and the ps5 are amazing consoles. What will he try with to achieve with the ps6!
PS4 was good for it's time and for the price. It felt outdated after 2 years. Ps5 on the other hand... Future proof. Excellent 😊👌.
i love his breakdowns of the consoles, he explains things very well with that soothing voice ha
I watched that ps5 reveal about 5 times. A lot of people complainwd about it when it came out for being too clinical and developer centric but I thought it was very informative. I guess they just wanted some flashy CGI trailers of games that won't come out for 4 years.
and they sure got it
I actually want to see how many people use that extra 2 GB of RAM since you have that thing with MS about both versions having to be the same, one can't be superior on a rival platform. I mean they moaned on for more RAM for years so I hope they use it on the PS4
Most third party developers didn't even use the power of the PS3
Funny thing is they want 1000 times better than the PS3 but they cant even maxed out the hell out of the PS3 and some are struggling on the cell...oh well wish they do better this time around the PS4
I doubt that third party devs would be so simple to ask for unrealistic specs.