Nvidia In Reply To AMD: PS4 & X720 are 3X slower than the GeForce Titan

Now this is great. Almost two weeks ago, Nvidia claimed that it was not worth investing on consoles and that was precisely why they did not bother with PS4 and X720. As Tony Tamasi, Senior VP of content and technology at Nvidia, stated back then, Nvidia came to the conclusion that it didn’t want to do the business at the price Sony was willing to pay. And as you’d expect, AMD decided to stand up and face Nvidia, claiming that they were able to offer PS4 the hardware Nvidia couldn’t.

Neal Robison, director of ISV relations at AMD, told TechRadar that AMD was able to provide an integrated solution through its APU that Nvidia couldn’t, by ‘optimizing information flows, generating greater performance, better power and heat efficiency, and by providing tools and dev relationships‘ to provide the PS4 a strong launch.

[iGAM3R-VIII]

So they're comparing a $1000 card to a console that will cost around 400$ ... that's nice. True that their cards are powerful, but even they couldn't supply a technology that is so ahead of the current gen at a reasonable price. And while they could supply what they used for the Titan, who would buy a let's say $1200 console? All I know is that the Sony and MS made the right choice for AMD.

Anyway, to sum up this article in one picture....

Oh Lord....

[Ezz2013]

Nvidia: you mad that my 1000$ GFX card is better than your 400$ consoles

AMD: no, you just mad that no one want you....you look like the girl in the pram night that no one want to dance with her

Nvidia: oh yeah, you are the cheap hooker that every one can ride

AMD: at least i can get laid

Nvidia : ohh you B****.....Now It's on

AMD: come at me

*pillow fight*

[Dark11]

hahahaha , Bubble up + man!

[iGAM3R-VIII]

What about the part where Sony and MS show up at the sleepover and join the pillow fight on AMD's side so it is 3v1?? lool and then the PC's show up and join Nvidia :P

[g4me_he4d]

rofl!

[SilentNegotiator]

An excerpt from Ezz2013's documentary, A Tale of Two Hardware Companies. In Theaters April 1st.

[thechosenone]

shouldn't it read

"3x more powerful than the PS4 and 4x to 5x more powerful than the 720?"

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/...

[Ritsujun]

Get a life, nVitch.

[badz149]

nVidia chose to be a butthurt bi**h and keep barking over a lost cause. I thought they would be more classy than this. If they really don't care about the console business, why even bother commenting on it? Sounds like it does matter a bit to them that AMD got the upper hand this time around in the console business!

nVidia makes good GPU no question about it but their performers always come at a price while AMD always has that perfect performance to price ratio GPU for everybody.

Sure, go on and compare the next gen consoles with your top of the line niche card that cost maybe more than both consoles combined but AMD (just like any other companies) is in the business for profit so I doubt Sony and MS are underpaying AMD for anything. nVidia is just greedy and they lost the race on this one!

[Mounce]

To be honest. With this kind of childish PR. It really makes me not want to purchase Nvidia GPU's. I always bought Laptops of the last 6 years and coincidentally all of my laptops had ATI Cards in them. However, with this kind of stupidity of butthurt I've seen of Nvidia of the past month? I don't want to do business with them, I'd rather avoid buying a laptop with Nvidia in it now and if I make my own PC Rig? Without Nvidia.

They should focus their energy on better things than mud-slinging like a child.

[Martywren]

@Ezz2013 that was hilarious.

[AsimLeonheart]

LOL! Seriously though, Nvidia is being very immature now. They are going too far now.

[DatNJDom81]

Nvidia is the same as envidia which is Spanish for envy. hehehe. Green powerz!

[Felonycarclub8]

Made my day lmfao

[Kevin ButIer]

lolololol Ezz2013 we should take that approach for console wars...

[Nick_515]

@DatNJDom81

It's coming full circle now.

[MoveTheGlow]

I love this fight - last generation, we had a battle between console fans above all else. This generation, let's just leave the battle with AMD and Nvidia, marvel at how stupidly awesome it is, and play some mother flipping games.

[Flipflopp]

@thechosenone, good catch. I didnt notice the chart went from PS4 to the Titan. Then the Xbox was sitting lower in the chart under the PS4.

[stumpa]

LMAO

[Bobby Kotex]

I like and own Nvidia cards and all, but why can't they STFU? This is like the corporate version of butthurt.

[FlyingFoxy]

AMD could be better if they fixed microstuttering on multiple card setups, 2 7870's stomp all over Titan and are cheaper.. No good with the stutter existing though.

Maybe it would stop Nvidia releasing overpriced stop gap cards, or at least make them a lot more powerful than just a bit over a 680 which the Titan is. Titan's price will drop like a rock in the next couple of months when the real next gen cards arrive.

I'm not upgrading till Doom 4, or Half Life 3 is announced tho.

[khan_saab]

is it weird that your comment got me hard

[SkyGamer]

NVIDIA is my graphics card of choice. Went from a 8600gt oc to 9600gt to 9800gtx to gtx275 to gtx470 to gtx570 superclocked. Can they be more mature, sure but look at the numbers. They are posting record profits while amd is a sinking ship. If ea and ubisoft and the whole tablet and mobile division are right in their claims, this could be the end of amd if consoles don't do as well this coming generation. They are bleeding fast and arm is rapidly taking the mobile market share.

[Lior]

I have 2 gtx 680s in sli best money spent in years bf3 in 2560 1440 resolution i get 70fps well amazing LOL IGAMER-VLL is on crack or something does he know anything about gpus? gtx 680 got me before i upgraded 45 fps around that anyway on 2560 1440 on bf3 now I bought another gtx 680 so now I am getting around 70fps nearly double the performance it is simple maths.

[iGAM3R-VIII]

So let me get this straight, you have 2 of the same GPU's in the same 1 computer. I do not even think ANY graphic cards or GPU's can do 70fps in a game in fact again I don't even think BF3 can do 70fps in 2560x1440 res. It isn't even possible to put two GPU's in one computer let alone make a game and/or GPU/Graphics card that can do 70fps at 2560x1440. Either that was an April Fools joke or you are high, or just talking nonsense

[grassyknoll]

No one cares.

[UnSelf]

this just in:

The US military supercomputers are also more powerful than the PS4

-_-

[Parapraxis]

iGAM3R-VIII, I'll take all of the above for $500.

[Robbert_jansen]

iGAM3R-VIII you have no idea what you're talking about

[Software_Lover]

IGAM3R-VIII

............................. ................... ............. You should've just kept quiet. Now you are food for the hounds. I hope that response by you was just an Aprils fool joke, but I highly doubt it.

[iGAM3R-VIII]

*CAN YOU PEOPLE CALM DOWN, I'M JOKING. CAN'T YOU TAKE A JOKE, knowing you people you wouldn't really beleive it as a joke and if you saw Lior's orginal comment, you would see why my respose was right, as you can see trolls usually change their comment when they know they are talking nonsense

[shoddy]

That's my problem with pc, upgrade.

The cpu, gpu, ram, motherboard are lining up for upgrade one at a time every year if you wanna brag about power.

[dennett316]

Oh iGAM3R-VIII....way to make yourself look amazingly ignorant.
Please, look stuff up before commenting because now you just look silly. Look up sli and crossfire....should tell you all you need to know about hooking up GPU's in those configurations.
Also...
http://www.geforce.com/opti...
43.57 FPS on GTX 560 (2 in SLI) on Ultra settings. 680 should easily hit 70+fps.
No card can do 70fps in a game? What? CoD on 360 runs at 60fps for goodness sake....what makes you think PC can't hit way higher than that?

And don't try to claim you were trolling, nobody falls for that dopey excuse.

[iGAM3R-VIII]

Also, I can see you edited your original comment because YOU were talking nonsense before, you said you were. speaking of math it is III not LLL you fool, (roman numerals)

EDIT: @dennett316, now you are looking like a fool, there is a difference between a troll and a joke and someone who decides to COMPLETELY change their comment to make ME look like the fool.

[FlyingFoxy]

You don't need to upgrade the mobo and cpu every year, original i7's from 2008 are still just as good as the newer i7's at the same clockspeed. All you need is a new gpu every couple of years until a big jump comes in cpu power.

Also Titan is like a Mars card, overpriced and only a bit better than the 680, if they need to release a card so expensive they should make it better than at least 2 generations ahead, what a fail. the companies should work on fixing micro stutter on multi gpu's because anything higher than 1080p will be slow and a waste of time and cash.

But 1080p is the sweet spot for speed, and better performing that way than consoles.

[Army_of_Darkness]

All I got from your comment was.. My expensive PC components makes my PC version of BF3 run great...
well, what can I say but congratulations! for spending all that money to play that one pretty game bro;-)LOL!

[MysticStrummer]

"I have 2 gtx 680s in sli best money spent in years bf3 in 2560 1440 resolution i get 70fps well amazing LOL IGAMER-VLL is on crack or something does he know anything about gpus? gtx 680 got me before i upgraded 45 fps around that anyway on 2560 1440 on bf3 now I bought another gtx 680 so now I am getting around 70fps nearly double the performance it is simple maths."

*eyes glaze over with disinterest*

Nvidia keeps making themselves look more and more ridiculous.

[WUTCHUGUNNADO]

Good troll igam3r... I got it.

[SatanSki]

I dont know if your story is true but i like it as this site is kingdom of cheap and poor - consoles and amd fanboys.

[towelie1288]

@ IGAM3R_VIII HAHAHAHAHA DUDE LOL u have no idea what ur talking about
keep off the internet u clown HAHAHA

[steve30x]

Simple math fails you Lior because your two GPU's are more expensive than the next Xbox and PS4.

@ grassyknoll : You dont speak for everybody.

[kane_1371]

igam3r-viii you make me ashamed of being a console gaming fan.
Learn your gaming knowledge or just do not talk.

The more graphical memmory you have the better performances, but that only gets you that far, you also need a good proccessor.
And pls, two GPU cards in a pc case is nothing new, actually Nvidia's beast GPU 690 is based on that system.

And I know Nvidea is acting immature and all, but you guys are stupid if you really don't want to use Nvidea anymore for your PCs.
not only the best quality but also the greatest price too.
You can't compete with Nvidea in Pc branch and AMD knows that too.
Now for Consoles AMD is vey good since it is easily tweakable and pretty cheap.
It is really no comparision, one is this Graphic giant that is dominating, one is this Graphical giant that is not dominating since its hardwares are not as good anymore. :D

[andrewsqual]

Exactly Army_of_Darkness. I think these PC idiots are forgetting one thing. Where are the games that will actually use your rig.
For example, Lior is talking about a game that was released a year and a half ago.
And lets get one thing straight, Tomb Raider looks a bit better on PC than consoles but is it really a substantial difference? No, no it isn't.
Another great example, it has been three and a half years since the last major Ratchet and Clank game (Crack in Time). On PC you have yet to experience a game that plays and looks anything close to that. Enjoy your tech demos. That T rex from "Demo 1" on the PS1 still looks great to this day too.

[showtimefolks]

Nvidia is coming out of this looking bad, they were the reasons the original xbox failed so badly. They were charging MS left and right and now when sony and MS have learned their lessons all of the sudden Nvidia doesn't care about console business

yeh sour grapes the way i see it

[chukamachine]

I thought the first xbox failed because of dvd drive price.

[rainslacker]

@chuk

The first Xbox wasn't really a failure, it just had a short life, namely due to Nvidia wanting to stop production of the chip, and wanting to charge MS more to continue manufacturing it. From what I understand(at least by rumors), was that NVidia wanted more than they charged for the initial supply, and this was during a time when MS was looking at cutting the Xbox's price to compete more against the PS2.

It was a hard decision on MS part, because they knew the ramifications of dropping support so early on a console. The 360 wasn't quite ready, and they were forced to rush it out the door, which caused some of it's early hardware issues.

In the end, things worked out for MS, but this whole thing is one of those ugly side of the industry stories that most people never hear about...or willfully neglect in the interest of console preference.

As far as DVD price, the DVD drive in the original Xbox was a standard off-the-shelf DVD player that you could put into a PC(or get from any computer shop). At the time I believe they were retailing for less than $50, so MS was probably buying them for $10 in bulk.

[ginsunuva]

Are there a bunch of AMD employees making n4g accounts and making false accusations and downplaying Nvidia? Seems that way.

[Dark_king]

@chukamachine Dvd drive was fine it was the HDD that your thinking of.

[THEDON82z1]

@iGAM3R-VIII/showtimefolks=Yea h you right,all I can say is:"CHURCH"!!!!LLOOL L!!!

[fr0sty]

Nvidia keeps making themselves look worse and worse every time they open their mouths. I mean, we knew they were butthurt over losing their console business, but this is a little much.

$1k cards being compared against a console. First of all, PC cards never get maxed out before they are due to be replaced. This is the reason why, if you go back and look at every PC game that came out during the time of RSX's launch, the vast majority of them ended up being outshined by RSX before PS3's lifespan was over (look at Beyond, TLOU, etc). This, despite the Geforce cards for PC at the time being way more advanced that RSX's GeForce 7 series specs. These PC games have to be coded to work on a wide range of hardware, so no card ever really gets maxed out. Not to mention Cell's ability to aid RSX (which PS4's CPU also has the advantage of being able to do, as well as GPU being able to aid CPU), which is much harder on a PC architecture because of the bandwidth limitations of PCI express, etc. When your GPU and CPU are on the same chip, as we see in the next gen consoles, they can communicate much faster.

As such, in reality that $1k titan isn't going to give you 2-3x better graphics than you'll get out of these next gen consoles. Yes, it'll do better framerates, higher resolutions, and better AA/AF/etc., but their twice to three times argument is garbage.

[Oner]

Exactly. +Agree & +Well Said.

[nukeitall]

Problem is, by the time PS4 and next Xbox is released, that Titan will cost as much as the console and 6 months later, it will cost less. In about 2-years you will find a far more powerful graphics card at half the cost of next generation console.

It is what it is, but upon release these consoles will be a steal compared to an equivalent PC due to the subsidizing from console manufacturers taking a loss to build their platform consumer support.

[Monkeysmarts]

Why do PC gamers care so much that their hardware outperforms a console?

[Somebody]

@ Monkeysmart

Why not? Console gamers love to brag when their next gen consoles outperform PC hardware when they launch. First it was the CELL processor will kill PC gaming and now it's the GDDR5 RAM. So it's natural for PC gamers to reply in turn with better hardware in the years after. Console gamers then will fight back with the gameplay vs graphics argument while they wait for the next-next gen rumors to start the cycle all over again.

[nukeitall]

@Monkeysmarts:

Ironically, I'm not a much of PC gamer. I primarily game on consoles and my PC has a lonely GeForce GT240. Which is pretty weak and cost $50 a year ago!

I'm just putting it out there as it is that nvidia is right. There are advantages to consoles, but it isn't in hardware capability.

[Monkeysmarts]

@Somebody
I guess I just don't get it. I mean, I see both sides... the console fanboys seem just ignorantly boastful, PC fanboys seem like they are defending their sister's honor. I prefer gaming on a console but I've never been of the mind that a console ever out powers a PC or will "kill PC gaming" any more than beastly GPU's on PC rigs will "kill console gaming." To each their own, there is plenty of room for both and it only makes gaming better for us all. I guess that's not as fun as trolling, bashing and arguing though lol...

[kevnb]

or we can just wait a few years and buy a $200 card. Nvidia should start proving these fools wrong... they cant just say it, they have to show it. But the problem is they want us to buy a new card every now and then lol. You could still have a 7800 or a 8800 and play games at console levels or even better than console levels. Heck the 9800/8800 is still the most possible model of card in use and plays all the multiplats better than a console. Optimization on console isnt nearly as good as people think.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[WUTCHUGUNNADO]

Upgrading is a personal choice... everyone acts like your required to upgrade whenever a new game comes out which is never the case unless they don't support whatever DX level your card is. Just because you don't meet the minimal specs it isn't a direct indication of your computer not being able to play it. Now there is a cut off point however and that's usually limited to integrated graphics or insanely old cards which will fail to even launch the game. As it stands right now any computer that meets the specs of the 360(all but the ram) is still able to play the most recent games give or take DX level exclusions... that will scale accordingly to next gen. If your PC matches the specs then you will be able to play the games but you just won't max them out.

[dougr]

While I think the bitching by Nvidia is petty, the next gen consoles are not better off with AMD in them rather than Nvidia. It would have been nice had Nvidia put the GPU in rather than AMD. After making the switch to Nvidia a couple of years ago with the GTX 570, I'll never go back to AMD. At least as far as computers are concerned, I know I can count on green much more than red.

[Leviathan]

I don't even know why these articles exist.

Nvidia KNEW they wouldn't be in the PS4 because they don't make x86 processors.

Period.

AMD's APU has no Nvidia equivalent because Nvidia doesn't make x86 processors.

These articles are made up PROPAGANDA.

[4lc4pon3]

i would buy a 1200.00 PS4 if it had a titan in it and gave me some of the best visuals you have ever seen. Shit my Gaming RIG alone running sli 680s and nvidia surround 3d cost me well over 3k.

i love all the bitching about prices but think about it 1200k is hardly that expensive and if it did offer a titan in it imagine how long the console would last. Instead of the mediocre 7-8 years you could push 12.

I have no doubt in my mind that game devs will do amazing things with the new gen consoles but its def in my eyes needed to be more powerful

[WUTCHUGUNNADO]

$1200 is a bit extreme for a console but that's what it would take to match a top-tier 2012-13 rig. Considering how the PS3 did at the launch price I don't blame them for not wanting to shoot for anything over $600. PC tech is on a different level than it was in 2005-06 but in order to achieve that it costs $$$.

[ajax17]

Lol, ten people are like NOPE. You're dead wrong. Trolls gotta troll.

[Giru017]

They should have compared TITAN to the AMD "7990" Devil 13... It's faster than Titan and only slightly (3%) slower than GTX 690.

I use an Nvidia card on my PC, but damn, shame on you Nvidia... Jealousy is an ugly thing.

[dcbronco]

@iGAM3R-VIII

I have read your comments in the past and thought you were either eleven or not all there. But you proved me wrong with that comment. Very well said.

Nvidia is acting like the popular chick that lost the starting QB to another girl. They are making fools of themselves. Plus if Nvidia can only offer a card that is 3x the power of the next console for $1000, what could AMD do with a $100 console? Offer 10x the power.

Nvidia most people wouldn't have noticed that you are falling apart if you had kept your mouth shut. Investors have to be questioning your leadership. Especially since no one wanted Tegra 4. Your stock price has dropped almost 20%. Just shut up.

Edit: I seem to remember John Carmack saying that a console could do the same thing as a PC with half the power because of optimization and specialized parts. So the Titan is just 50% better than the next gen consoles for 250% more money. Nvidia don't shut up. STFU!

[chaldo]

I can't believe these comments.. Yes Nvidia is stupid for saying this but you guys know very well that Nvidia is better than AMD by far. Just because AMD is in consoles now doesn't mean it's the greatest thing of all time. jesus...

[ooquis]

"So they're comparing a $1000 card to a console that will cost around 400$"That's the most inspiring comment i have ever came across on this website. your one intelligent man...

[Nilemonitors13]

True my friend, let them spend a 1000$ on the card alone, that will get console owners their respective console and around 8 games. Btw, nvidia might be derived from envy, as much as they talk like they didn't care, walking away from millions of dollars is probably hurting them inside. All they are showing is their namesake.

[sengoku]

LOL anyone notice that the next xbox according to nvidia graph is less powerful then the PS4??
it's also released 3 to 6 months later..

[DeadlyFire]

Like AMD doesn't have 1000 card. What is AMD 7990 then. :P

Consoles are set right for the price. APU with same kinda performance could only be done by AMD at the time. Intel has some work on APU with their graphics. Haswell CPUs are expected to come with 1 Tflop on them.

AMD's PS4 APU at 1.84Tflops is miles ahead of that. Likely AMD will put heavier cores on it for a PC version of same APU so it would likely be less than 1.84 Tflops, but with more heft.

I expect next gen after this one AMD, Intel, and NVIDIA will all be fighting with APUs for nextnext gen consoles.

[fatstarr]

Yo do know that the titan architecture is going to bthe next main card. Nvdia will make a cheaper version

Ex titan is the 790
They will come out with mid tier version 760 that will shit on the next gen

And then a low end 750 that will shit on the next gen as well

The architecture is set to destroy give it a year before they roll out.

[Anarki]

Goodluck getting the games for that 1000$ card. Pointless tech is pointless right now

[Mini0510]

As a PC gamer, I agree. The comparison not practical at all. Nvidia is just trying to advertise their products, etc.

[IAmLee]

Nvidia : The most butthurt company of 2013..

[gamernova]

So...the ps4 has been confirmed to be 400 bucks?

[user7693958]

It may be 3 "slower"but it has 100 times more support and so far the games showed on the PS4 look better than any tech demo they have done for the titan.. in the end we want to play games not tech demos.

And I will have not mind spending $1000 for a more hight end PS4 but a low price so most of my friends who mind can buy one with fast and easier to develop games so I can get more and better games are more important features and quality to have.

[BurninDragon08]

Me: PS4 & X720 get my money. So, who loses?

[raytraceme]

ur wallet.

[zebramocha]

How else was he/she suppose to acquire a ps4?it's not like we have a bartering system or some work exchange.

[4lc4pon3]

if you actually had a good job i dont think ur wallet would care. at least mine doesnt

[raytraceme]

it's a joke.

[Azfargh]

also social life

[HammadTheBeast]

Also, PS4's main focus is gaming, so although the graphics card is 3x more powerful, it's a smaller gap due to specialization.

[Nilemonitors13]

Super saiyan 4 is about 5 times more powerful than the nvidia card, but you don't see goku busting their balls for it.

[Prcko]

it's all about optimisation
titan is maybe 3x faster but using only 50% of his capabilities.
in other hand PS4 will be 3x slower but system will use(at beggining)60% and later 100% capabilities.
if you didn't know ps4 using new technology where CPU and GPU working together,results-MORE POWER-better looking visuals.
ps4 games will look like today pc games with all ultra graphic,or even better.thx bye

[Kennytaur]

You're right about a console being more capable than the sum of its parts. Even though you do present it in a mild fanboy manner.

An interesting fact is that Nvidia said you need 10x the power to get twice the graphic fidelity. With that in mind, the "only" 3x more powerful Titan comes off a bit useless... seeing it'll just play the same games.

[pete007]

porco, you know the first party ones will allways push a bit more the hardware than all others, truth is a hi-end pc will have allways the edge over consoles, like it or not. consoles are great only for exclusives, multi-plat allwyz on pc

[SonyPS360]

Why would the titan only be using "50% of his capabilities", exactly? You kind of just pulled that out of your ass with no basis whatsoever.

You can argue "WELL IT'S MORE EXPENSIVE SO NERR!", but you won't argue that the Titan isn't far more capable.

Also you can buy the Titan today, and it's already more powerful. The price will have dropped by the time the new consoles come out too, so as far as the "well no shit sherlock blahblahblah, because it's more pricey blahblahbla" argument goes, you should really save it. Do a price check on the Titan when we have the new consoles, then give it a shot.

I really don't give a rats ass because I'll just buy both a Ps4 and a Titan when it's worth investing in one, not on release. Just please don't pretend like you have clue about the internal workings of these machines if you're going to talk such drivel.

[KwietStorm_BLM]

Curious, where exactly are you getting these percentages from?

[DwightOwen]

From his ass, like all fanboys do.

Seriously, these guys have no idea how retarded they sound. 60% power at launch, huh? Why, isn't Guerilla competent enough to get at least two-thirds power out of the PS4, lol? Not very "optimized", now is it?

[Prcko]

speculation
just giving numbers so you can see what i talikg about

[dirthurts]

If PC hardware is only running at 50% it's capacity, it's because the game doesn't need any more. If you're hitting 60fps, there is no need to run at 100% all the time.
This is where this misconception comes from.
Me? I can normally take full advantage of every ounce of hardware I have.
It's not 1995 anymore. OS doesn't take but maybe 1-2% of my cpu, 0% of my GPU, and maybe...600Mb ram (out of 4gb).

[kevnb]

consoles get a small boost from optimization, a 8800 gtx still beats consoles easily and came out around the same time the ps3 did. It was expensive at the time, but the ps3 uses a souped up 7800 gtx and can barely play most multiplat games at 30 fps at settings equivalent to low on pc. Heck often they have to drop resolution to hit near 30 fps. How did people get so brainwashed?

[ILive]

You speak of multiplats, what about exclusives?

[4lc4pon3]

false even if they made it look amazing on the PS4 it will always be or look better on PC. PC's video cards can render way more then a console gpu so that adds alot of extra's on screen such as more visuals, physx, detail n more.

PCs will always be ahead of consoles PC hardware gets updated constantly while consoles get updated many years down the road.

[Parapraxis]

ePeen warz, gotta love em when the big boys go at it haha

[PirateThom]

Ever since Nvidia were confirmed to not have a hand in any console this gen, they seem mad.

How many people, in all honesty, are going to put down the sort of money they're asking for a Titan? It's going to be the big enthusists and, even then, it's only going to be the ones who really need to be on the bleeding edge.

It's never going to be a mass market item because PC gaming with that type of card is not really a mainstream market. Whatever number they sell, it will never match the easy licence that is console GPU development where the product doesn't change for 6+ years.

[Robbert_jansen]

they ran out of stock because production couldn't keep up with the demand

[PirateThom]

Wholly irrelevent without knowing what demand or production levels were, though.

Again, anyway, it's the sort of thing enthusiasts, you know the ones who need the be cutting edge, would buy as soon as it's available anyway.

[SonyPS360]

They're actually sold out and out of stock, so I don't think Nvidia are "mad" at all, really.

[NateCole]

As a PC gamer i can tell you this card can be found at less price if you know where to look or wait a couple of months.

PC gamers from my experience also generally do not see $600 for an upgrade as too much.

People must also understand that the graphics card are also used for something else other than gaming.

For me i work in GIS/RS and i always do need a great graphics card and a powerful processor for imagery processing/analysis and animation rendering. It's also for something else other than just gaming which puts that $1000 into perspective.

There are also other advantages such as cheaper games and free mods etc on PC gaming.

Form my perspective is not really that hard to justify considering what i will use it for. I am sure others are in the same boat.

[pinkyxyz]

damn as a pc gamer and nvidia fan im sort of ashamed of them. they sound like dumbasses or comparing a console with an optimised gpu verses an all around "i can do anything" 1000 dollar titan gpu. idiot....

[WeAreLegion]

I meant to agree. Sorry, bro. Lol.

[Lior]

It is true, I am an nvidia fan i have a 680 sli but they dont need to brag about being faster becuase console fanboys dont care they will just say whatever dont even know what titan is

[Kennytaur]

Sure we know what a titan is.
It's the stuff Kratos beats the sh*t out of.

[NateCole]

Yeah. It is odd and embarrassing.

[WickedLester]

That's nice Nvidia! Next time I have a spare 1000.00 on me I'll buy one of those video cards!

God, I'm so sick of hearing from Nvidia and their sour grapes! They need to get over themselves!

[yewles1]

Nvidia's reaching again... Titan is actually 2.5 times as powerful as the PS4's GPU going by their claims (the chart is strictly showing FLOPS performance). They's should've been more accurate in that chart and less mad about the whole thing.

[ziggurcat]

nvidia in reply to everything: we're still crying over not getting the PS4/next xbox contract waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[boing1]

Black PR is all they can do now.

[brich233]

The ps4 and nextbox are 3 times slower, but i doubt that the nvidia Titan will sell 100 million sales in its lifetime. They problably wont even sell 1 million, so yeah, No Comparison here. Nvidia Can brag all they want. 5 years from now, there will be over 100 million people with Amd parts in thier Consoles.

[rainslacker]

and 99.9 million people of that 100 million probably couldn't care less who made those parts.

This is mostly just posturing for investors. All that really matters is the games that are made.

[pete007]

technology is just like the car industry, we all love to have better cars on the roads,less pollution, more power eficiency, you know that the everyday technology is developed on formula1, rally, lemans series, its the hi competition that pushes forward, silicon goes the same way, its not the titan being main Stream, its the technology based on, its only a flagship, AMD will also have something to say about, sadly we are seing a small jump on console tech, the riscs are high and moneys short,
so console makers go the easy way, in 2 years ps4/xbox will be outdated, real bad, luckilly we switched to x86 set of instructions, and a lot more scalable engines that will mindblow on pc remaining acceptable on consoles, lets hope the shitty ports are over. im more interested on Maxwell than ps4/720 or even ps5/1440

[robleroy]

maybe consoles graphics will be outdated after 2 years, But it takes more than 4 years to really squeeze all the juice out of consoles. And they do ( "the last of us" of God Of War3 ) is quite impressive for a 8 year old console with only 256 MB memory)
You are probably a "I love games for their graphic resolution and Frames per second" kind of person. That's OK.
But because of this presumptuous look at consoles you miss out on all the AAA console games and gameplay (share, kinect ,no tweaking , no configuration issues, no reporting bugs, no reading forums to fix your pc problem, No need to visit support site for Hardware compatibility, )and in the pc market you do not have games that interact with move or kinect or have dual screen possibilities ,or games services (xbox live, PSN, cloud services (play while downloading), downloading while console is standby mode or etc etc)
I can go on and on..

Its just not smart rule out game consoles.

I used to be a pc-gamer for decades and also was hooked to the consumer market which blinded and addicted me with their super beautiful painted GPU cards and the number consisted names they advertised for their products (i5 ,i7 GTX*** etc etc). Even the console market today (except WII) uses that trick.

And lets be honest : you are probably just hooked by the numbers (examp.: Everybody who has a GTX660 would love to have a GTX670 etc etc)
But if NVIDIA used names instead??....( Would everybody who has a GTXmark evenly would love to have a GTXjane (newer model)???)
I reckon we would care less.

Just think about it....

Sadly most of the best and the most AAA games will only be found on console (concerning game-graphics)

ps. If the money was short SONY would not be spending 300 million for just a streaming service...
and the would not put 8 GDDR5 ram and 8 CPU cores (max) . more would be overkill because the developers would need special knowledge skills to make use of the extra cores (it would turn out to be another ps3 like debacle)
SO there is no sign of "moneys short") Sony went all the way.

quit dreaming about pc games becoming ultimate gaming platforms. It has not happened for 25 years.
And the pc is loosing ground every year (especially because of the rising tablet market)
That means bad news for you. because pc's and parts are being sold less and less, pc hardware needs to get more expensive. Thats the real reason the titan costs 1000$
If the pc market was really good, we probably could get top performance GPU's for $300 to 600 instead of 400 to 1000.
There is more tech and $'s in an $400 ipad than in a $1000 titan GPU. IF the $1000 GPU would have the same market as the ipad, it would probably cost a mere $100.

gamer-PC's pure for gaming are just not worth the money.

[DwightOwen]

It took years to "squeeze all the juice" out of consoles because devs had to spend years and millions of dollars building custom engines for the damn consoles due to their fucked up architecture (that's YOU PS3).

Moving to a PC architecture that 99.99% of devs learned growing up is not going to leave much room for improvemnt, if any. These bricks are going to be tapped out within the 1st year. After that, you'll see more and more titles releasing in 720p with baked-in effects (rather than rendering things in real time) so that devs can add more stuff on screen in order to give the illusion of visual progress.

Don't believe me? Look at some Xbox 360 (the architecture of which is closest to a traditional PC) games from 2008 and compare them to games in 2012. There's hardly any visual improvements to be found. Crysis 2 compared to Crysis 3 is a fantastic example. Two years of extended programming knowledge yet the game looks and plays no better.

[rainslacker]

I'm not really too familiar with the tech behind the titan, however a couple years ago I attended ECGC, a local game conference, and a guy from Nvidia was the keynote speaker.

The speech was basically on the advancement of graphics processors, and Nvidia's approach in said advancements.

For 60 minutes all I took away from the entire presentation was that Nvidia is just looking at pushing more and more cores onto a single chip, thus improving efficiency and processing power. This was hardly impressive to me because it's the same thing that has been pretty much done in every facet of CPU upgrades, whether increasing transistor count or number of cores, until something major comes along to change that thinking...for instance, cell processing evolving into APU architectures.

Maybe you can clear up your statement on how the tech inside the Titan is a true precursor to what RSX chips will be based on in the future, because it seems to be well rooted in the past.

[thebudgetgamer]

I've never seen a company work so hard to make themselves seem immature.

[Ck1x]

You haven't heard of Epic Games then I'm guessing!

[Ashlen]

This is just sad... Comparing a 1000$ video card that won't do jack unless you add another 500-1000$ worth of parts to a 400-500$ game console.

[pete007]

its not 1000$ against a 400-500$, sony launches a console at a loss, making up in the long run, besides, every game you buy pays royalties to them,making the console versions overpriced, in the entire console lifecycle i usually buy 100-150 games witch gives a total revenue of 1500 to 2500$ plus the 400-500$ initial price.not counting dlc, subscriptions for services, etc.

[ILive]

Your logic is so full of fail that i just dont even want to get into it. I speak of the part where you do a tally.

[josephayal]

And 3x Cheaper

[smashcrashbash]

Good God can we please end this already? What does Nvidia want from us? It's a console.No one said it will be more powerful then a computer.Only imbeciles care.Can we not go through another long drawn out thing with people droning on about specs please and what will be outdated when please.We all know the advantages and disadvantages of having a console or a PC. Thanks we get it. We heard all of you the first 100 million times.Sony decided to go with AMD.Get over it.Live with it.We will see for ourselves how the games will play once the PS4 comes out.Sony is competing on the console level.If they used expensive parts they wouldn't be able to compete against Nintendo and Microsoft's consoles.Can we move on now or does someone else want to get on their knees and kiss Nvidia's feet some more?

[dantesparda]

Well said!

[nosferatuzodd]

Zodd the immortal give you bubbles for that speech
Well said smashcrashbash

[Ashunderfire86]

Yeah I have a GTX 690, and I don't care how powerful my graphic card is or how powerful yours are. 3 times the power of PS4 and Xbox Next is not that huge of a leap, so it is still impressive to see how close these consoles are to Titan. PC gamers do yourselves a favor. have fun playing games with ur card, and stop talking about how your card is better than PS4 and Xbox Next. We all are going to get the same amount of games on each platform like this generation, so who cares about your power?

[jjb1981]

And 1/3 the price....

[Bellcross]

Apparently someone doesn't know what Sli or Crossfire is, But it's fun to watch him make a fool of himself.

[jjb1981]

My Lamborghini is 3x faster than your civic.... No sh*t!

[turgore]

3X faster than a PS4 but it can't play Killzone Shadowfall.

[Masta Kaos]

160 Million people can afford the PS4 and 720....and only 20000 can afford the Titan

[Oner]

Well Said...VERY, Well Said.

[leogets]

no ones cares about power, people care about games, good games and lots of em, this is where consoles rape PCs.. sorry but fact..

[dirthurts]

Not true.
PC gamers care about power, that's why they're PC gamers.
I love consoles the first few years they are out. Fast, powerful, impressive, but after that I start sliding back to my pc as that hardware gap just gets toooo large.
I still prefer a Console, just wish they evolved quicker. I know I'm the minority here.

[nevin1]

Will they ever come out and say their upset about not getting a deal with either Sony, Msoft or Nintendo?

[Pizza]

3x times faster then so what.

No PC game is optimize to use more than 50% of any GPU power.

PS4 will come out in 2013. I would like to see how the PS4 game released in 2015 comparing to its PC version using GTX titan.

Game is optimized for fixed hardware-console. PC counterpart needs at least 2x times graphic power to match the console version.

176Gb bandwidth on GRRD5 between CPU and GPU on PS4.

On PC? How fast is DDR 3 2133? How fast is PCIE 3.0?

You do the math.

Individual parts does not mean anything.

The whole architecture is the problem.

There is bottleneck on PC in a whole, not CPU or GPU separately.

[OpenGL]

The GTX Titan has over 288GB/s of bandwidth from its dedicated 6GB of GDDR5, and CPUs don't need that kind of bandwidth.

A Core i7 3960x using the DDR3 memory you specifically mentioned has over 50GB/s of theoretical memory bandwidth available and it is not limited by memory speeds at all despite being a much faster CPU than what is in the PS4. In most scenarios the PS4 CPU won't even be using 25% of the systems total memory bandwidth, the GPU will be taking most of it because graphics operations require it.

PCIe 3.0 is not a bottleneck because PC GPUs have dedicated memory to work with.

[robleroy]

yeh,
Going to the pc shop and plugging a pc together beats years of extensive research by a billion dollar company in a AAA lab by a couple of 100 engineers in building a game-console which consist pc architecture parts or custom chip-sets from pc part suppliers..
LOL
please if you are not an MIT engineer don't even try to kid yourself with your logic. Go get a degree.

You probably think MS and Sony are just instructing one or 2 high school pc gamers to plug together a pc and call it a console...

Just HAVING a bus IS already a bottleneck..

LOL

[NateCole]

I have no idea why you got disagrees.

[OpenGL]

What do you think the PS4's CPU and GPU access each other via? You understand that an interconnect is just another term for bus and that the PS4 CPU and GPU still use a "bus" right? How do you think the PS4 accesses memory?

I didn't say the PS4 is a bad design or that Sony somehow messed up, but comparing memory bandwidth as if it is somehow in favor of the PS4 is foolish because CPUs don't need that much bandwidth and GPUs on the PC are already ahead of that by a fair amount.

HSA will bring some advancement but these will likely be nullified before the PS4 even launches when Intel brings out Haswell this year.

Sorry if you felt I was insulting Sony, that was not my intent but of course you had to engage Sony Defense Force mode at the first sign of trouble.

[annus]

"No PC game is optimize to use more than 50% of any GPU power. "

Stop saying that. "Power" is a made up console term. It will use 100% of the power if need be, it just won't be as optimized, and even that isn't clear on a percentage of usage.

And please, before you go throwing around hardware terms, understand what they do and how they work.

[MasterCornholio]

Well I recently bought an extremely nice Ultra book for school work so I don't really want to pay over 2000$ for a top of the line gaming PC. Instead I will spend a fourth of that on a next gen console which is more than enough for me. Plus I love Naughty Dog games which are exclusive to the PlayStation brand.

Motorola RAZR i

[Ambivalent_]

Nvidia should just STFU after the shitty GPU they provided in PS3.

[Sharius]

wow, wow, wow.... how nice, maybe i'll pay that 1000$ so i can watch better porn after all

[CyrusLemont]

What Nvidia really should of said is 'Our Titan card is 3 times more powerful than the PS4's GPU in raw numbers, however PS4 has a single hardware focus from developers so no fragmenting or sacrifice in game design to support multiple setups. Also the PS4 hardware is built upon a synergetic architecture with design unavailable to general public which will be able to push graphics way beyond what people imagine. Also we're douchebags cause AMD's card is a fraction of our $1000 Titan but we'll give it s**t anyway.'

Ily Nvidia, but stop. Let the visuals make the decision for the gamers, not the specs.

[PAYNEinc85]

Yes because if Nvidia would have gotten the contract from Sony we all know they would have given us a Geforce Titan in the PS4 right? *rolls eyes

[Mithan]

Consoles are no where near as powerful as loaded PC's. They are also no where near expensive.

That all being said (PC's are better), why doesn't nVidia shut fuck up here?

[cyclindk]

In response to Nvidia:

"PS4 are MORE than 3x cheaper than Titan..."

[vZeppelin]

less then 333$, that's really impressive for Sony to lunch a console that cheap.

[cyclindk]

Well I took SOME liberty with the pricing considering a TITAN is essentially USELESS without a PC to support it, so tack on a few hundred for even the CHEAPEST of other vital components and yes... you are well above 3x the cost.

Sufficient power supply
Case
MOBO
SYSTEM RAM
HARD DRIVE
Optical Drive (not essential, but PS4 and Box will have them)
CPU

[vZeppelin]

Then next time say "PS4 are MORE than 3x cheaper then a Titan computer."

[cyclindk]

Yes sir, but only for you, because you special.

Oh yeah, could you please point me to the Amazon link selling a "Titan Computer."

Thanks

[annus]

At the people asking Nvidia to be quite: Why should they?

They are a hardware manafacturer. They are constantly getting slammed by console fanboys about how crap they are, and that they aren't good enough for the consoles. People were saying that consoles will be more powerful than PCs. Nvidia retaliates and backs up their claims with proper statistics and all of a sudden Nvidia is 'butthurt'.

I know nobody ever actually reads these articles, but it's pretty much been 2 statements and then N4G just reposts each e-bloggers version of said statement, they really aren't having hourly retaliates.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

"Nvidia retaliates and backs up their claims with proper statistics and all of a sudden Nvidia is 'butthurt'"

Lets be fair...Nvidia is going out of their way to slam the competition and the PS4 which is made by a company they are still partnering with (see PS3). It just sounds pretty petty in the grand scheme.

Lastly backing up a statement by saying our $1000 ubber GPU can do more than a middle of the road GPU also seems ridiculous if you factor in the cost comparison. Titan is 3x more powerful but its also about 4x the cost. if you look at the performance vs cost trade off the PS4 GPU (based on their claim of 3x more powerful) is really getting great value.

[annus]

Welcome to technology. Why would I want a 4k tv when I can get 4 1080p screens for 1/3rd of the price?

Like I said, people were saying Nvidia COULDN'T make good enough technology, and that the PS4 WILL be more powerful than current PCs, and Nvidia proved them wrong.

Also I would like to point out that Nvidia is a company, it isn't just one man saying everything. Nvidia may still have partnership with Sony, it doesn't mean other people in the organisation aren't allowed to 'dislike' consoles.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@annus, I think people including AMD were saying Nvidia couldn't make good enough technology at a cost effective price. Even AMD has technology that is more powerful than what is being put in the PS4. Nvidia has gone out of their way to vocally say why they are not in the next PS4. I would guess this is more to calm investors that might be worried they are losing share in the space.

And I agree with you that Nvidia is more than just 1 person. I drive by their HQ campus often, its most certainly not just one car in the parking lots. :) BUT... the people speaking in these discussions are not just some joe shmo who happens to not like consoles. They are figure heads to the company and thus representing Nvidia in the public eye. Coming across petty and somewhat angry / defensive is never a good posture for a company like Nvidia.

[BitbyDeath]

A better example would be -
Why would I want a 4k tv when it can only receive an upscaled 1080P reception?

PC's are more powerful than consoles but that power isn't being used.
Let the games do the talking.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

Oh Nvidia, why so bitter?

[g4me_he4d]

Only 3x?

[pandehz]

Whats gonna be super insanely funny is Nintendo contracting Nvidia to make a next gen console and letting WiiU be an end of this gen console.

Who said you need terrorists to start a war.

[headblackman]

why are they even trying to compete with a video game console? this is rather petty and sad. Pc's can upgrade at will and consoles are stuck with whatever the system is released with which in most cases its good at the time of release and should only be compared to the GPU and or CPU in their respectful times and classes

[KillrateOmega]

...then this settles it. Honestly, they're comparing a $1000 gfx card to a $400-500 console and talking about how it's more powerful. Yeah, no shit...

Nobody is trying to say that the next-gen consoles will be more powerful than PCs. We know that PCs offer superior power, as is their nature.

Just be quiet, Nvidia. You're starting to come across as childish.

[annus]

"Nobody is trying to say that the next-gen consoles will be more powerful than PCs."

Somebody wasn't around for the first week after PS4 was announced. It was all "omg 8GB DDR5 RAM. Killzone using 25% PS4 power. Will destroy PCs for years to come." Every thread related to PS4 had many, many people saying that.

[KillrateOmega]

Then those people were wrong. I am talking about PCs and consoles solely in terms of power and hardware. Quality of software that will be produced by either of these two is another matter entirely.

I am a console gamer, but I hold no delusions as to which of these two is more powerful.

[latinillusion81]

i think this causes for a slap fight between the two companies.

[Dms2012]

And when you balance out price for performance it equates to jack and shit. What is Nvidia suggesting? That everyone be ok with a $1500.00 console?

[shadow_lawless]

So is this a confirmation that the next xbox, "Xbox 720" according to the slide, is indeed less powerful graphics wise than the PS4?

[Daves]

and!... 3 times the price.

Go figure.

[imchuckbass]

Let me start by saying that I will pre-order a PS4. Maybe my ability to think straight comes from the fact that I also have a high end gaming PC, and a Wii U. So here goes:

----> If the PS4 had an Nvidia GPU, and Nvidia mocked AMD, you'd be saying "ha AMD so weak! they suckzz! SONY went with the market leader that produced TITAN" <-----

You're all pathetic, and your disagrees will prove it.

[Ck1x]

To be honest I think Sony started this whole pissing contest when they announced the PS4 and said that its built with supercharged PC technology... That's when everything commenced of how PS4 has 8GB of GDDR5 ram and it will compete with high end PC's! They do this every console generation and it gives the zealots something to get on their soapbox about and sing Sony's praises about how amazing and loyal to gamers they are. The comments that get me the most from these people are when they say things like "Sony has never let me down!" I mean who says that about an electronics company? Its not that serious people really. Some people make video-games sound like they went from being a hobby to a cult. Each company has brought something to gaming not just Sony! Online console gaming wouldn't even be where it is now if it wasn't for Microsoft and the Xbox brand, but everyone forgets that. Yes Sony did bring gaming into the mainstream with the PS1 and moreso with PS2, but Nintendo thinks about keeping the fun in gaming. Which is why most of us started gaming in the first place because it was something fun to do. So those of us that just game on whatever we like and have an interest in don't have all of the hang-ups and prejudice views of fanboys...

[Sharius]

and i said the whole thing start because of someone being letting out of the party

[pissed999]

Pc wins suckers. More powerful, for best gamers of all.
Get over it.

[seanpitt23]

Why Arnie why

[teo72]

Talking trash about PS4 because it on paper is 3x weaker than Nvidias Titan, is as stupid as trashing the PC for being extremly underpowered when compared to Supercomputers capable of several petaflops.

No matter how powerful your PC's are, I still won't be able to run my favorite games. Why, because they are only on Playstation. Maybe this is a foreign consept for you Pcgamers, but some of us actually care more about the games themselves (as in gameplay), than the graphics alone.

[alb1899]

So nvidia knows that 720 is as powerful as ps4 because they said their card is 3x faster than ps4 and 720.....hmmm!

[Daves]

They ARE very similar.

The differences are in the focus.

[landog]

and 2.5 x slower than a gtx 680

a $450 card

[Daves]

Who's going to push the Titan? Tech demos? Most developers will code for the lowest common denominator. Which will be PS4 and the next Xbox

Maybe Crytek... but I couldn't care less for their games.

I'd say Sony first party make the best.

EDIT: Typo

[InTheZoneAC]

nvidia is sounding like a troll

have fun with their broken graphics drivers...

[arronax-1]

youtube.com/watch?v=ksuyYeFx8- M

[2pacalypsenow]

ps4/xbox 3 $300-$400 titan alone $1000

[teo72]

My impression on the Nvidia debacle: Nvidia is upset because the pc market is shrinking every year (reason: tablets and smartphones), and AMD secured both the Sony and Microsoft console contracts. Meaning that Nvidia stands to loose marketshares to their archrival AMD. Hense the PS4 trashing.

[kingPoS]

Wow... even Nvidia themselves have joined the fanboy wars. lol

I need some more popcorn, This this some really entertaining stuff unfolding here.

[Machiavellian]

The problem I have with this article is that it's taken out of context. The slide is from NVIDIA GDC conference on cloud gaming and there grid technology. It's NVIDIA trying to make a statement that consoles and even high end graphics cards can be replaced with there cloud setup. This will allow any game to be played on any device with everything maxed out.

Actually this slide does not have anything to do with a respond to AMD but instead is where NVIDIA is putting there resources.

So if the Steambox comes out using this technology with a 99 dollar price tag but allowing you to play games looking like the latest high end demos we have seen from GDC then that would be a game changer

[SnakeCQC]

the titan sucks

[Sideras]

As a PC gamer I would NEVER put down that much money on a graphics card, it's just way overkill. And tbh I don't see all too many people getting it either.

[Sy_Wolf]

That's actually a good thing considering that the consoles will be around $400 for the whole system and a GTX Titan is over a grand for just the GPU.

[first1NFANTRY]

I'm starting to dislike Nvidia every time they make a statement. Why are SOME American companies such douche bags?

Competition is good but to go out of your way to downplay the efforts of others out of bitterness is just plain ignorant.

Guess they really are butt hurt lol.

[FreakdoutKid]

Battlefield:Fanboys warfare

[RyuCloudStrife]

if envidia didnt care about consoles why are they soo bitchy about Sony's decision? Yeah, they mad.

[Darkwolf]

I am getting sick of all these PC faggots going on about better visuals more power etc...
Go and stick 512mb of ram in your rigs and see how well the games run then..Show some respect towards MS and Sony for what they have achieved with there machines this Gen..

[THEMIGHTYDOOVDE]

I think their making more of a point than a comparison.

[TemplarDante]

FIRSTLY, I must say, the PSP launched with a CPU clockspeed of 198mhz. After a firmware update, Sony later pushed this up to 333mhz.

Now, I have a theory.
The PS4 is an SoC design.
Being a system on a chip, it is made up of 8 low heat low watt usuage Jaguar Cores rumored to be about 2GHZ each. It also incorporates an HD7970M GPU.
This is by default found in a mobile platform/Laptop as being at 850mhz.
In comparison to its pc counterpart, it is as comparable as a HD7850.
The PC counter part (pcie) is standard at 1GHZ.

Now, at 800mhz, it has 1.82TFlops of power. This is pretty powerful, astually, about 10Times more so than the PS3.

It is my theory, later down the consoles life, Sony will bump up the PS4 GPU to 1GHz or maybe 850Mhz, but in doing so get maybe 2.5TFlops-2.7TFlops, effectively doubling that number.

John Carmack tweeted after the PS4 unveil that Sony made wise engineering decisions and that it could *easily* in real world application, double its performance in comparison due to console optmisation and it being a closed system.
If we take the 2.5-2.7TFlop number, its not hard to imagine it being the case.

Nvidia, you know what you got?
Sour grapes. Msft. Sony. Ditched you, your pc market is shrinking. Your Tegra chips are so energy hungry, no one outside of Asus care to use them. And Qualcomm and ARM still smack you around in the mobile arena.

[Ck1x]

You couldn't be more wrong about this comment... The PSP's launch specs for the processor was 333mhz, just like the PS2 and Sony later reduced it to 222mhz in a firmware update to get better battery life on the system. Nintendo has done the very same thing with the 3ds by currently allocating one of the 268mhz ARM11 CPU cores to the OS and the GPU is reduced in firmware from 200mhz to 134mhz to better battery life! But if Nintendo unleashes this extra processing power, in no way shape or form is the 3ds being overclocked. Its just processing power that it always had from the start but was sealed away on purpose, just like the PSP when it launced as well. Now unless Sony comes out and confirms that the APU is being downclocked in firmware, you are never going to get an electronics company the size of Sony to release an overclocking firmware. Which could dramatically reduce hardware reliability in the chips design... Of course overclocking is popular in the PC community, because if anything ever happens to one part of the hardware it can easily be replaced individually.

[just-joe]

There's only one way to settle this. AMD rep vs Nvidia rep in a cage match at E3.

LET'S GET IT ON!

[Subzero200]

lol the slow station is already outdated.

"I am getting sick of all these PC faggots going on about better visuals more power etc..."

yeah just like we are tired of inferior consoles holding back the pc from greatness, and my pc had 256mb of ram about 20 years about and it was still superior to consoles lol.

[TemplarDante]

dude, what a pitiful comment. "Slowstation" ....
When pc fanboys make names up for consoles like that, it stokes the fire of imagination and thought of stereotypical pimply faced basement living immature 20 somethings being keyboard warriors at their parents house and using liquid nitrogen to cool their pcs to try and win a non existant my penis is bigger than yours contest. It may or may not be true... but I just wanted to let you know what your lame insult looked like to the rest of us... while we're sitting on our couch... playing games with our family/siblings/gf/spouse having fun. :)

[fourthpersonview]

They may run slower, but they will sell more.

Stop being a drama queen Nvidia.

[Machiavellian]

It's funny how someone can take one piece of information, twist it for there purpose and people never take the time to actually find out if there reaction is justified. I see why tv ads during presidential elections are so effective. You only have to take any piece of information out of context and you get a host of to believe what you say without ever caring about facts.

[tubers]

FanFetus' logic aside, it's interesting to note that before the XBOX 360 had the best GPU on release.. then the superior 8800 GTX came at $800-$1000 LATER.

Now, the consoles, out of the gate.. is X3 slower than it was relative last gen's release..

The PC having the GPU crown way ahead (X3) than next consoles BEFORE their release at basically the SAME price it was with the 8800 GTX.

[Allowen]

If both Sony and Microsoft can trust AMD then I can trust then too.

The next time I need to change the GPU on my PC I will go with AMD !

[Somebody]

Yes...the super expensive Titan is 3X faster than next gen consoles. Yes, it's the same old console optimization vs overpowered PC hardware argument.

So what about the Geforces below the Titan? For example the GTX 760-780? Won't they be based upon Titan and possibly perform near/surpass the Titan without reaching the $1000 mark? What happens then?

[TronEOL]

I hope they realize I'll be able to buy BOTH the Xbox720 and PS4 most likely for less than what it'll cost to get a Titan. And at least I'll be able to play good looking/running games on them for the next 5-8 years.

My GTX590 can't max out most of the games coming out now (only bought it 1 year and a half ago), and I'm forced to settle for a bit (tiny) better than PS3 graphics, running at 60FPS, and that cost me nearly $1000 for the 590 ALONE. Versus my $400 PS3. And while PS3 continues to play games at a decent quality, my 590 will start running worse than the PS3 does.

That's the console's advantage over PC. Developers continue to support old hardware because it's their only choice. Whereas most PC devs only develop for the most recent cards, and Nvidia and AMD stop updating them a few years later.

[Gaslight]

I'm just going to say this "We don't care about PCs " my phone and IPad does so much I don't even own a computer lol I don't even need one I game on consoles period

[dcbronco]

It sounds like Nvidia might commit suicide. Just open the door Nvidia. It's just seems bad now. It'll be alright.

[GABRIEL1030]

Nvidia was rejected by Sony and Microsoft. Now they only can sell expensive cards for limited PC market. AMD made the business of the decade, It's the only company that will make console PS4/720 processors. 200 millions of consoles are a great market and AMD have the monopoly. bad decision Nvidia let go Sony. Very few people can afford buy a 1.200 USD card.

[fredrikpedersen]

God, you people. I'm not in the mood for another internet flamewar.

[Max-Zorin]

Nvidia is gonna hold a terrible grudge like a Scorpio.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Nvidia has no one to blame but themselves. They dont offer discount or price reduction to Sony and MS . Im sure both companies would have went with Nvidia but they aren't in the business of losing money on consoles for the next seven years.

[Fakdafakinfakerz]

This is a shortfall of several million dollars. I would be pissed too.

[BrianC6234]

Good grief Nvidia, just go away. They're such babies. They started this fight. Does anyone even care? They're acting like crybabies. Graphics wars are dumb.

[Mister_G]

Wouldn't putting a Titan in PS4/X720 make them much more expensive?

Keeping the price affordable is probably more important for the success of these new machines than raw power.

[TheKayle1]

k is the time...look this (im doing copy and paste from another mine post sorry)

http://i.imgur.com/g61Dtdy....
(amd 7970)

compared to the xbox gpu

http://i.imgur.com/sqkJUmO....

i think the problem in vgleaks and the others sites is that they calculate a SC ..as a CU for a total of 12 CU :)

http://www.vgleaks.com/dura...

.....while a sc (sharer cores) is a group of 4 cu (for a total of 32)..the document is ok ..the interpretation is wrong :)
.......for this reason in the latest durango devs kit they use a amd 7970 as thuway said on GAF )in the other post i said bkillians sorry i remember wrong!)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

"The current devkits have 7970's inside them...."

obv thuway isnt in favour of the xbox (lol) so he think we will receive a downgrade (x2LOL) and this sound pretty stupid...

now why use a 7970 (where devs use the kit to point a performance target and then downgrade it? :D:D:D:D)

...old rumors was pointing at gtx680 performance and if we go deep we will see the tech is pretty the same

nvidia use 8 SMX (= group of 4 cu) in the gtx680
amd use 8 CU ARRAY (group of 4 cu) in the 7970
(BOTH r just names! for groups of cu!)

so why xbox gave different name at the cu if they was just cu calling it Shared Cores ....(as amd and nvidia did) ..jsut coz arent JUST cu...r groups of cu

8smx= 8*192=1536 cuda cores (gtx680)
8 Cu arrays = 8*256=2048 ALU (amd 7970)

but we have 12 CU ARRAYS on the vgleak leaked document and u know what ? :O

on google the next 8970 desktop XTX is rumored 3072 ALU :O

and if u look at the xbox

12 SC r 12 AMD CU ARRAY = 12*4 = 12*256= 3072 ALU :O

3072 alu is + or - x3 time faster than a ps4....

now this is pretty hard to accept also for thuway("WTF WHY THEY USING A 7970 a 3.79tf card if vgleaks say 1.2!!!!!" they thinkin)..so ppl point at a downgrade..or other things...

im saying from months....just wait....the show...coz we will have a lots of laughs to do there :)

now why UE4 have a new tech demo?! the infiltrator one?
and why ps4 showed a old tech demo (elemental) that we know alredy how much it was bad compared to the pc version

well coz the infiltrator was running on gtx 680 :O (a card that ps4 with a 1.8tf cant emulate) that is in the same ball park of 7970 :O and .....i bet my balls that we will see this tech demo at the xbox show ;) and it will use some of dx blue

another hit that i seen on vgleaks is wrong (and i dont know how they could do this mistake)

7970 have 6 MC @ 64bit =384 bits
http://i.imgur.com/g61Dtdy....

the xbox have move engine that r

4 ME @ 256 bits = 1024 bits
http://i.imgur.com/sqkJUmO....
;)

the leaks on vgleaks (and on what everyone is basing on) is correct...the interpretation is wrong....but was easy...

ps before disagree pls explain in what i could be wrong..seen that for u this is speculation i would hope u do speculation based on facts....so pls explain

(the architecture is pretty similar eh? :D maybe something is ringin in ur heads)

[extermin8or]

um can't be bothered to discuss most of your comment but Epic themselves have said at least once that the ps4 tech demo was done pretty short notice and was not in anyway optimized for the system; whereas the PC version was optimized for the PC they KEW they'd be showing it off on :p
also I think we can safely say that the ps4 and next xbox will be pretty much identical in terms of raw gpu performance, and cpu performance- the only difference I see is in the bandwidth of RAM. But at this stage I think VG leaks have proven themselves pretty relaible as have kokatau seeing as all their ps4 specs were either correct or very very close to the mark- they even mentioned the push for 8gb GDDR5 RAM instead of 4...

[TheKayle1]

sorry not 32cu.....4*12 is a total of 48 cu i let u calculate the rops

and also remember that leaked document of vgleaks in fact MS gave the name Shader CoreS with the s....while we all know that a CU r the word for COMPUTE UNIT...not Compute UnitS ..where many simdS make a cu (compute unit)

http://www.anandtech.com/sh...

[extermin8or]

So lets get this straight they are still comparing their GRAPHICS CARD ON IT's OWN that costs like 2.5x the as much, to the PS4? Also got to point out that GPU ALONE is worth about a grand right- pretty sure it's not going to be displaying ANY graphics unless I buy all of the other components recquired :p like a HDD, copy, heat sink, case, motherboard etc :p whereas when I buy my ps4 for a vastly cheaper price- it'll come ready to use out of the box provided I have a screen to hook it up to tv or otherwise. And there isn't going to be any difference in gameplay between a PC game and a next gen game if for no other reason than it's not financially viable or relevant to make it so that PC's AI are better or anything like that so therefore all that extra cash is getting you is slightly prettier graphics-that will be limited anyway by the fact that the games will have been designed on engines built with the primary purpose of working on the Ps4 and next xbox etc...

[TheKayle1]

and to let u explain why im right:
"So what’s in a Compute Unit? Just as a Cayman SIMD was a collection of SPs, a Compute Unit starts with a collection of SIMDs. 4 SIMDs are in a CU, meaning that like a Cayman SIMD, a GCN CU can work on 4 instructions at once."

now in the vgleaks diagram we have

http://www.maxconsole.com/m...

as u see just change the names and u will get it

from vgleaks diagram u can clearly see how every vsp can do 4 O (operations)
while in normal GCN a CU can do only 4 Op......but that SC can do 4 for every VSP....16 so

in normal GCN Cu that 4 vsp should do just 4 op

i repeat the interpretation is wrong ...the 12 durango SCs r CU arrays

[FAT MAN GO BOOM]

Nvidia Needs to shut their pie hole... Bunch of whining ass hats...

I like them I think they make great cards but man this is nothing but lame totally unprofessional...

Christ Nvidia's PR statement is going to be AMD be at the bike rack at end of school...

[TABSF]

I agree with born2expire

"Look at it this way, AMD needed the consoles, Nvidia did not. AMD was on shakey ground and experts where giving them a 50/50 chance if they survive 2013, where as Nvidia was in fine shape."

Truth is Intel is destroying AMD on the CPU side with only 1 in 4 CPUs being sold are AMD, on top of that AMD chips cost more to make since they have large die size meaning more materials, worst part is they sell them more competitively than Intel yet can't seem to generate enough customers.

"Nvidia didn't need a bulk project where the price is dictated to them. As Nvidia described the opportunity cost on supplying the consoles was too high they have their own development to worry about as we should see a announcement about Project Denver in the next year or so."

Nvidia are pushing technology just look at Titan and Tegra 4, more powerful than any smart phone processor at the moment, the chip that will power Project Shield. like born2expire says Nvidia will have to meet a target price on a Console chip but in the PC and Android market they can charge whatever they want.

Just like Intel with CPU Nvidia own the market with GPUs, about 2/3 of all GPUs sold are Nvidia.

I'm sure Nvidia would of been happy to be in the consoles but the profit margins are probably way to small and Nvidia don't design APU like AMD.

If anything AMD won big with consoles because they aren't making as much as Intel and Nvidia in the PC space.

[MontyQ]

I was amd/ati for age left them for NVidia as AMD drivers blow and blow bad.....lets hope the console games get driver updates fast as with AMD you gonna need it

the only reason ATI changed to AMD is because of the

ATI-all those installs

yup all the installs of drivers to fix the one before and so on lol

[Tzuno]

Short story: nvidia is butthurt.

[TABSF]

GPUs more powerful than that in the PS4

AMD Radeon
----------
HD 6970
HD 6990
HD 7870 GHz Edition
HD 7870 XT
HD 7950
HD 7970
HD 7970 GHz Edition
HD 7990 (3rd party dual HD 7970)
HD Malta
HD 7970M
HD 8870 (OEM)
HD 8950 (OEM)
HD 8970 (OEM)

Nvidia GeForce
--------------
GTX 480
GTX 570
GTX 580
GTX 590
GTX 660
GTX 660 (OEM)
GTX 660 Ti
GTX 670
GTX 680
GTX 690
GTX Titan
GTX 675MX
GTX 680M
GTX 680MX

That is 27 in total :P

Yeah and all of these will be out before PS4 launch, hell some of these have been out since 2010 (GTX 480 and HD 6970)

Plus GeForce 700 and HD 8000 series are due out in the 3rd quarter of 2013 :)

[Shnooze]

To be honest, all of this "PC is better than consoles!" and "Consoles are better than PC!" is getting a bit childish.

I probably will continue buying from Nvidia even with their stupidity. I use their products for much more than gaming, and hell, it really helps me out when trying to animate and design. The titan is probably the single most useful upgrade I've gotten in a while. That's just me, though. If you want a decent priced experience for GAMING, just get a console. I think it's one of the better investments. BUT, if you're planning on using your PC for more than just playing games, then make your choice. AMD or Nvidia, who cares?

[ianblake]

you must be a retard to compare a $1000 card to a $400 console

[NastyLeftHook0]

full blown

[sengoku]

They can call the nextgen of consoles whatever they want.
but really tell me what the use is of a $1000 card locked to a 1080p resolution at 60fps sure it could do a little more of this and that but the improvements will be minimal because it only has so much pixels to fill.
and to be honest from my couch i cant even tell the difference between a 720p or 1080p movie so sorry.
but the ps4 is spot on there is no real need for anything more powerful as the output is limiting what we need to be able to do and there pretty close to reach the limit as is..

sure some more reflections depth 3d en AAAAA++++ this and that and another boatload.
but is it worth putting it in a console when a $100 card could roughly match it at those resolution en fps

that is the real question.

[Soldierone]

According to Amazon the graphics card is over 1000 dollars. NVidia doesn't get the point do they?

[Kidmyst]

Nvidia needs to take their ball and go home. So you made a bad business deal and should have been a better negotiator like AMD was. Chalk it up as a loss and learn from it. Nvidia in my opinion makes some of the best PC cards and my last 4 in my rig have been Nvidia. But damn, Nvidia is sounding like a whiny little B***H over this!

[Azfargh]

The post seems to butthurted more most of the people here than NVIDIA itself.

[mt]

Nvidia you really need to shut up.

[Jan55oni]

HATERS GONA HATE!

Nvidia

[yacinedelucia]

That's such a childish comment from Nvidia.
if we were to compare GPu's ,we will be comparing
a Titan for exemple to an AMD 7970 GHZ edition but
the GTX titan cost 600$ more .or maybe
againt the ARES II .as it has a closer price to the titan and it is certainly more powerful than the GTX titan. consoles are such a different product than raw GPU's.it's a bundle of fixed components that offers the maximum performance /durabilty/power consumption...plus
a customized gamepad at a relatively affordable price.
the nvidia comment has obviously no sens.and is only an evidence of the imminent succes of the true next gen consoles. wich nvidia is trying to disturb because they sipmly lost that extremly big market. and that's not fair play...it's a bit bitter. ;)

[isyourhouseonfire]

Nvidia wants to stick to the PC market despite the fact that its almost dead. Not exactly the best business plan..

[fingazblank]

Blooming hell i just upgraded my gfx card to a 7970, im behind in the rat race now :(

[kingduqc]

People don't get the point.

The point was not that a 1000$ gpu can beat a 500$ system. The point was that before, console was competing in raw power with pcs at the time of release. Now they are not even out yet and yet don't even compete with current tech (3 times lower) and there is 6-8 years to go before we get new hardware.

Games we will see popping out this gen would of been possible years ago and this is sad.

[SephirothX21]

The PS4 has good specs for its price and is a big leap over PS3. The next Xbox looks to be less powerful from the rumours but I hope it doesn't drag down multiplatform games like the 360 did. Sony have learned from their mistakes and the PS4 seems easier to develop for. I hope they release their graphics API for free so hobbyist developers like me can make games for it.

The Titan is 1000 euro while the PS4 will probably be 500 euro. Though in two years time when we see games that are taking full advantage of the PS4's hardware, NVidia's Maxwell cards will be out meaning a big price drop for current cards like the Titan. Then you will have low range PCs outperforming PS4. This is the reason consoles cannot match PCs hardware wise. It comes down to games which imo, consoles and PCs are even. RTS games and mmos are mostly exclusive to PC and if not exclusive, certainly better on PC. You have free mods and great deals on Steam. You have nearly full backwards compatibility. multi games look better and SSD drives can be used to really speed up loading times. PC is the premium platform. Consoles are better for playing shooter games online because there are more cheaters on PC and consoles get some games earlier like GTA V. Own both and you can't go wrong.

[wingman32x]

This whole thing reminds me of how jilted EA acted when Nintendo dared to say no to Origin.

I hope this doesn't become a trend. Shit slinging through the press like this makes no one look good at all.