New ‘always on, always connected’ Durango SDK leak is real

EDGE - Fresh documents posted on vgleaks.com related to the next Xbox are real, our source has confirmed.

Our insider described the screengrabs from the Durango SDK on vgleaks.com as “entirely legitimate”, although they contain much of the same information we revealed on February 6th, and were circulated to developers working with the console last year.

[Gazondaily]

Oh dear. Edge were pretty much spot on with their sources as far as the PS3 was concerned so we have to give them credit here too.

"With this “Always On, Always Connected” design, users will quickly and easily enjoy their connected entertainment experiences, with no waiting for the console to restart or install games"

Is that really the benefit of this design? The PS4 doesn't require you to be always on, always connected and still manages to achieve (according to what was shown) what was elucidated above.

But this did make me realise one thing; my hardware is already always on as it is; my smartphone is connected either via 3G or WiFi, my 360 and PS3 auto-sign in as soon as I turn them on, same goes for my PC.

So as far as this always on business is concerned, the only real issue is making sure I don't watch porn or prance around in my room dancing to Tom Jones like Carlton from Fresh Prince of Bel Air if my 720 is located there in case MS are watching me.

[DragonKnight]

There's a difference between you choosing to have something always-on and someone exercising DRM by forcing always-on. Always-on is always going to be a bad decision because there is no such thing as a constantly stable network that never has down time.

If always-on goes to consoles, imagine what network maintenance would be like. Not only would you not be able to play the online component of games, you likely wouldn't be able to play games at all.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

My DVR is always on...and unless the power goes down it is always connected. I turn my TV on and bingo...I have tons of channels to surf or access their on demand content.

The reality of always on, always connected is going to be very different than what most of the conspiracy people here think.

[Gazondaily]

Yeah I'm not liking the sound of this at all. DRM strikes at heart of player freedom and forcing this down our throats is going to be met by a lot of resistance by 'core gamers' (boy do I hate that term), if that is the case.

Also, you're right about the network maintenance side of things; how is that even going to work? I live in London and even then, I can foresee a lot of problems with it but what about my relatives and friends in countries where the online infrastructures are no where near as advanced?

To be honest, we still don't know exactly how it operates so we should give MS the benefit of the doubt seeing as this is still officially a rumour and we have very little info as to how this would even operate (if it exists). But I think we can all agree- this sort of move to have a quasi-DRM model just isn't what we need.

[darthv72]

equals no different than any other electronic device. My cable box is always on even when I turn it off. It still is on low power and can do the dvr stuff in the background.

Always connected equals no different than any other smart enabled device like a phone or pc and game consoles we have now. If you are hooked to the internet, you are pretty much always connected.

[BlindGuardian]

can you all take a deep breath and read carefully for a moment

the article doesn't say anything about used games and certainly "always on always conencted" doesn't mean no used games, but the mandatory HDD installs and no gameplay from the discs DOES

[DragonKnight]

If it's always-on in the cable box sense, then cool. If it's always-on in the SimCity sense, then MS are going to suffer. It definitely is too early to say for sure, but can anyone say with 100% total certainty that MS are above the SimCity style of always-on for a console?

[xxLuckyStrike]

Failed to mention the first thing the document said is its "subject to change"

[gaffyh]

@darth - Almost definitely they mean "Always on" in the sense that there will always be a connection to MS' server. Which would mean DRM, which would mean problems.

Just look at SimCity. \thread

[darthv72]

how do you determine that?

always on and always connected are two different phrases. one does not equal the other. if they did then there would only be the one phrase.

I would think always on means what it says. Just like how my ps3 is always on unless I physically turn the main switch off on the back or unplug it. but if i did that, then i would not be able to connect to it over the internet.

And for that to happen my ps3 is always connected. Im know its a play on words but we really know nothing of what the words mean. We only have an implied meaning.

edit: we cant take the "literal" meaning of the terms "always on / always connected". We have to look at the figurative meanings. Because we cant predict when or where there will be power loss or signal disruptions.

the figurative meaning implies that the system will basically be available when you want it. Now seeing as MS does not have a dedicated handheld gaming device for remote play, they could be working on an xbox anywhere app that allows you to connect to your xbox from a pc or smartphone or tablet...anywhere / anytime as long as the device you are using is connected to the internet.

Like a beefed up version of smart glass but not being right next to the system as a second screen. This is all just hypothetical in a sense. I'm not saying this is EXACTLY what they are doing.

But too many are taking the literal approach to the terms when we really know NOTHING to the extent of what MS intends to do. Hell....we dont even have an official reveal for crap sake.

[HammadTheBeast]

@BlindGuardian Good point. Overall, this has me confused, concerned, and bemused. And slightly amused.

Guess it's PS4 for me.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

So the next Xbox won't *require* internet connection to function that's good to hear.

The main concern now is used games...

***"It does reveal, however, that all games on Blu-Ray will be installed onto the console’s hard drive, and that play from the optical disc will not be supported"***

This doesn't sound assuring at all. Seems like the disc becomes useless after the game is installed. I hope I'm interpreting this wrong.

[xursz]

This is crazy. I won't throw names but I remember the same people who were saying "watch when the PS4 shoves DRM down our throat fanboys are going to bend over and accept it." Now these same people flip-flopped to supporting it. **facepalm**

Always connected DRM is nonsense no matter how you spin it. Period. As Septic mentioned, all these 'benefits' outlined have already been brought up with the PS4 so these 'benefits' are nothing but excuses.

That said, I'll take this as rumor until its confirmed.

[Army_of_Darkness]

I can't imagine how much the RROD#2 is gonna increase with xbox 720 when it's gonna be "always on"! ;-)

[Lvl_up_gamer]

Always on doesn't bother me. All my devices that use internet are all always on. My cable box is always on even when i turn it off.

I have no problem. I still have yet to see where the issue is. People in here think that because there is an issue with internet connectivity suddenly you won't be able to play. If MS are planning the 720 to be all in 1 device I am sure they have already thought about connectivity issues.

[nveenio]

No. Your DVR is not always on. The machine may be, but the service isn't. Have you never called your cable/satellite provider and said, "I have no signal!" And they say, "Technicians are already working on the issue."

THAT'S the problem. Paying for a service and not being able to use it at the fault (or responsibility) of the service provider.

[guitarded77]

Ugh... we apparently will have to install the game to the hard drive, and the games will not be played from disc, just HD. MS will probably make us buy their licensed hard drives, so this is just out of control.

[SilentNegotiator]

@Dlacy13g
So you have no idea what the difference between cable television and internet is, then? No wait, you didn't even compare those...you compared your DVR being on to internet reliability COMBINED WITH network reliability. -_-

@Lvl_up_gamer
You have no problem with always on, now that it appears the next Xbox has it? Shocker. /s

To be fair, this is really just a rumor. An "insider source confirmation" does not proof make, no matter how often EDGE has gotten rumors correct.

[kevnb]

well it was only a matter of time. The ps4 will end up similar as its up to the publishers.

[xursz]

Jack Tretton confirmed you can play the PS4 without connecting to the internet.

If EA starts attaching DRM nonsense to PS4 games it's on them.

[RememberThe357]

"Always on, always connected" means that the games can only run if your connect to their network, and that is the problem. It's not ambiguous like your trying to make it sound. If only calling it "always connected" works better for you then good, but there's not point in requiring game installs on consoles unless your implementing DRM. Now, we can pretend we don't know what this means or we can make the logical connections.

I hope your right though and they've learned their lesson from Office, but at the very least it's looking like DRM is going to be pushed with this next Xbox. And we have every right to have a problem with that.

[TemplarDante]

Its almost like Microsoft is giving the middle finger to most people outside of the United States to be honest. In all honesty, its doubtful to servers and network you would be connected to are localised for every country that supports XBL..
Ive had many Disconnects over XBL in the past, imagine playing a game, it dc's and it exits the game after a certain amount of minutes a la' Sim City.

[_-EDMIX-_]

Agreed! What most are not really understanding is that most people don't just own internet. This move could actually destroy MS's next system if true. I really don't see people flocking to a system they have to pretty much ALWAYS have a internet connection to. There has been many times where my internet was down and I had nothing to do but catch up on some games.

What if you take it out to a remote place with no internet? What about developing countries with limited internet? What about families that don't even have internet?

So PS4 (everyone and anyone can own it)

720 (only if you have internet)

So...MS pretty much made there death bed. LOL! I see this going really bad.

[Dee_91]

(0_o)
Hopefully if this news gets enough hate MS has enough time to change it.
I think this is horrible and I personally dont see any benefits.Stop trying to be so innovative and build on what you have already jeez. we all cant be benjamin franklin
Not just the always on but the installing games onto the HD bit too.
Its so funny they try to put a spin on it to make it sound like its a good thing but in reality its to make more money.
I dont usually type this but it is necessary right here.
M$
Like really can someone tell me the benefit of any of this? Not those cookie cutter PR responses we get from MS.Because I must not fully understand this. I dont know.. guess Il have to wait and see

[TheRealSpy]

So much complaining and speculation about a rumor. We aren't far away from the official announcement. Just relax!

BTW, since we're all speculating anyway, did it ever occur to anyone that there will be multiple versions of the console? MS already showed an interest in doing a subscription based version of 360. Maybe the always on feature is limited to people who opt for the 99 dollar console but have to agree to a 2 year Live subscription.

[sinjonezp]

Very good points and more questions are raised in contrast to ones being answered. In the United States 77% of all people are connected to the internet. While this provides a positive figure to promote a product that is always connected, server capability is an issue. Additionally will Microsoft charge consumers like last generation after buying the box? What about Americans and people around the globe who do not have internet access. Only slightly over 30% of the world is connected. Not only are Microsoft alienating possible customers, they are also creating doubt; people wondering if this is due to DRM measures or verifying owners? Microsoft should consider further research before they institute this type of strategy. Consumers do not want an environment where they feel like they are controlled; Especially if you paying a premium for the product and service.

[nukeitall]

Actually, I think people are mis-interpreting this.

Always on, always connected doesn't mean DRM necessary. From what I gather it means even when the console is "considered" off to most people, it is in a lower power state that is "always on" and still connected to the internet.

It doesn't say, it has to be connected, nor does it say DRM that requires you to be constantly connected.

My guess is that is a marketing tag line that has been incorrectly interpreted by the gaming media.

Of course MS knows there are going to be ISP outages or any number of problems along the way with internet connection.

If you thought of it, don't you think a corporation with educated people haven't thought of it?

[Psn800]

Totally agree with you , you can't implement the gamer to leave his or her games console on all the things the op mentioned not only that with fuel prices going through the roof this is a really bad idea .

[Omegasyde]

***To all the responses stating always on isn't bad and comparing to a cable box****

From this generation of games, most gamers have determined that the launch week of popular online games always have kinks to be ironed out especially if the developer underestimate the servers required(COD for example). You also have to factor in if there is a problem with netcode such as NATing or if a server is hacked.

If you have an always-on requirement, users might be affected by this by not even being able to play the game at launch (even single player). If the leaks lead to "always on" having your system connect to a dedicated XBL system then the situation is different. You also might be screwed by auto-patch updates that might cause more problems (i.e. Bethesda games lol).

But even then if a group of hackers say...anonymous, hacks MS servers, this means the system is completely unplayable unless MS has some redundancy plan (which would cost millions).

The real benefit I see coming from this, is licensing. If I lose or scratch a disc, I am sure MS would let me download the entire game at no extra charge or a small fee.

In the end, it is a catch 22. It also limits hardware sales for areas without broadband connections since there is no confirmed "off-line" mode. Then again as a incentive to entice more buyers, MS *might* make basic online play free.

DVRs and cable boxes are different since you only are using one connection to your TV providers Central Office and uploaded information is almost irrelevant.

Online games require constant data uploaded/downloaded at all times via UDP sessions.

[Winter47th]

"New ‘always on, always connected’ Durango SDK leak is real"

And this was the day I decided to go PC/PS4 for the next generation.

[nypifisel]

I'm not sure there's any benefit for Microsoft to have DRM seeing how piracy and so on isn't such a big problem on the consoles, only use it could have is for blocking used games I guess.

[liquidhalos]

You make a good point about network stability. In September last year our landlord converted his house (which is located under our flat) into new flats and it caused terrible problems with our phoneline. It was down for almost 2 weeks and when it did come back up the builders always seemed to find a way to knock it back out again. We had on and off problems until building was finished in February. Now im asuming that had i have had a 720 i wouldnt have been able to play any of the games id already paid for?

That kind of bums me out, my 360 is my favorite console and i was planning on getting a 720 because i naturally wanted to port my live account as ive had it so long.

Im sure this wont be a disaster for microsoft but it sure is a little disaster for me and my gaming world.

[JeffGUNZ]

It's pretty clear in this article what I was saying all along. "Always on, Always Connected" doesn't mean you have to have internet to play a single player game. It means the system will basically be in a standby mode. It will also download updates to games or system updates while you're at work or what not. It seems to be more of a benefit if you have internet, but no where have I read that you NEED an internet connection to play a single player game.

[Utalkin2me]

@darthv72

"I would think always on means what it says. Just like how my ps3 is always on unless I physically turn the main switch off on the back or unplug it"

Are you really saying just cause the PS3 is plugged in it's always on?

[Nafon]

I just don't see why people think this. it doesn't HAVE to be always on! If you unplug the power cable or turn off the power strip your xbox is plugged into, it's not going to explode! you'll just have to download updates when you turn it on again. It's there as a convenience, not to force it on you. If you are concerned about power usage or microsoft spying on you (which they probably will lol), unplug the damned thing! they will probably have an option in the settings to turn it off anyways.

[piroh]

"all games on Blu-Ray will be installed onto the console’s hard drive, and that play from the optical disc will not be supported"

is this a joke?

[Simon_Brezhnev]

basically anti-used games no matter how people try to spin it.

[Old McGroin]

@ piroh

"is this a joke?"

I hope so but I've seen it pop up on other sites like IGN in the past half an hour so could be real. If it's true I will seriously be considering giving the next Xbox a skip.

EDIT: By "true" I mean if it leads to being unable to play used games.

[claterz]

I'm sure Microsoft have some ridiculously priced hard drives lined up to store all those games ;) lol.

[darthv72]

if anything, the game installs a validation key in order to play. The idea of installing the "game" to the hdd from a bluray disc would imply the system would have to include a HUGE hdd.

I can see them making it to where you put the disc in, it validates against the previously installed key (via the internet if need be) and then you are able to play the game.

Sounds like PS+ in a way. I have only recently signed up for the service but i understand that in order for a game to be playable during the subscription period, it validates your membership (via the internet) and allows the game to be played.

Can anyone who was once a PS+ member, but now isnt...confirm this?

[Blastoise]

That sounds terrible. O.o

Oh dear...

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@piroh and for those other wondering....
games that are disc based will ALL be installed to the hard drive. Proprietary tech will allow the game to be played with in seconds of being inserted into the system while the game will continue to install in the back ground. From then forward the game will play off the hard drive not the disc. With the exception of the first time you put the disc in you really will never play "off" the disc.

[aquamala]

how is this anti used games? get a used game, put it in, and install to hard drive.

[Saigon]

@Dlacy13g

I don't think you understand where @piroh is a little pissed at. There are hardcore gamers that buy or even play almost 5-10 games at a time. I can't do that, one game a pop for me and then on to next. With MS doing this, it means that a user has to be cautious of their space on their system all the time. This sort of reminds me of when I purchased the 4gig 360, I eventually had to purchase the extended hard drive because I couldn't do anything. whats is going to happen if MS only gives 500gb hdd and with the 50gb blu-ray being the minimal disk sized used, it can get a little ugly. Lets hope that MS makes this an option and not something mandatory.

[jamz4]

@darthv72

Your ps+ games are given an expiration date of when your subscription ends and can be played offline until then (you can check the date by pressing triangle and going to information). When you renew your sub it updates the expiration date automatically.

[badz149]

wow dude, have you ever play a pc game before? have you seen any USED pc games like...EVER?

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@Saigon I think you are assuming the hard drive is going to be small and limiting...we have no idea what the HDD size will be yet. This is just another example of people freaking out before knowing the whole picture. IF MS comes and says mandatory HDD installs and you only have a 500GB or smaller HDD then I will be first to say.... that blows and give me more space!

[FamilyGuy]

I'm pro-sony in all aspects and I still think some of you need to think more logically about this.

The no used games and always online are negatives but playing games off the HDD isn't that big of a deal and probably helps with load speeds.

Blu-ray disc drives don't have a very high disc read speed so this may be their answer to combat that. The PS4 comes with a 6x drive, who knows what speed the next xbox will come at but what we do know is currently PS3 games duplicate assets to combat the slow read speed problem. Look at how long load times were for first gen PS3 games compared to what they are now. It was horrible and they solved the problem by creating doubles on the disc so it wouldnt have to read from an older, time consuming, location.

The next xbox is supposed to have a 500Gb HDD standard so you'd just have to delete the games you arent playing once that's filled. The ability to play WHILE it's installing already means that if you delete it and then come back to it you STILL won't have to wait (in theory). Also, they'll obviously be larger HDD options as well (at a price or some bundled model).

This isn't all that surprising to me.

Also, I expect the PS4 to have a MINIMUM of a 500Gb hard drive as well though 750Gb-1Tb is more likely for Sony.

I'm not all that interested in Microsoft's next console to begin with but it'd be nice for them to officially come out about the system soon.

[darthv72]

thanks for clearing that up. The reason i wasnt so sure is because (in my case) when I play a game on my vita, it always connects to the internet first and then i can play.

Maybe its doing an auto update thing instead of validating my sub but that is why i was associating the two.

It makes sense to have an expiration date as unless you are on a 3g plan, you arent always going to be in a place with wifi to connect/validate over the web.

As for the hdd install thing. i still think it wont "fully" install the game but just some assets to verify the copy you put in the drive matches the key installed to the system. Otherwise you could run out of space real quickly depending on the size of the hdd (if they include one at all).

Maybe (and this is MAYBE) we all need to take a chill and wait for something real to come from the mouths of MS.

[HammadTheBeast]

@FamilyGuy

I've said it before, and will say it again. If PC can do it, there's no reason a console shouldn't. Specs I understand, but honestly? Installing and then not being able to use the disk is bull. Might as well make it digital only.

[Cryptcuzz]

I sure hope that is a joke or an incorrect info that would not make it in the final release.

If that is the case, they better release the next Xbox with 1 TB SKU and a 2 TB SKU for those who buys a lot of games and use their console as a media device as well.

On top of that, how long and tedious would someone have to wait to buy a game and wait for it to install upwards of 20 GB to 50 GB of data before they can start playing?

One thing I didn't like about the PS3 was sometimes needing to do a partial mandatory install. Even that is not the whole game and took sometimes upwards of 5 to 10 minutes.

I am glad Sony placed an emphasis on gamers not wanting to wait and would like to buy a game and play it right away during their Playstation conference for the PS4.

I truly hope this isn't true, since it is simply bad for all gamers. Fanboy or not, it is terrible for consumers in general.

[Christopher]

***Blu-ray disc drives don't have a very high disc read speed***

Yes they do. In fact, they have a higher on average read speed than the variable rate DVD drives. 6x BD would be faster than current DVD drives in all areas and would easily deliver 1080p and 7.1 audio without issue.

[ps3_pwns]

looks like im getting the ps4 for sure it would be dumb and borderline criminal as a gamer to even touch the x720 with this gaming slavery they are enacting. your console will always have to be connected to the internet to work. if you do not have internet microsoft will charge you 40 bucks a month so that you can have 3g or 4g internet and they will charge you editional fees for downloading games and such.

[Saigon]

@Dlacy13g

I am expecting them to go the route of 500gb. MS creates their own hdd for the 360, and I expect them to do the same with the Next Xbox. If they go with anything higher than a 500gb hdd, its going to get expensive. Right now the highest hdd that I know of is a 5TB thats available, but again it is very expensive. Granted they are going to get bigger, but if we expect them to place a 1TB into the Next Xbox, its going to be ridiculous in price and wouldn't make sense, but then again, it might be the right decision based on the specs of the system.

In my assumption if games are going to be placed on at least a blu-ray 50gb disk than we need to take into consideration that most games will be at least 50gb. I know MS is great at providing compression techniques but this is still a huge number. 500gb hdd at least 8-9 games, excluding the software on the system which may take more space than expected. Even with 1tb, it doubles that game number stored.

In assumption they may come out with a method where you can remove the game and install again for later use.

[deadfrag]

Thank god we still have PS4,PC and Wii U,not even steam require me to be always online to play my games.Another thing is that atleast in 90% of the european countrys will not have acess to those cable and media features that the console seems to have for the US market,most people in EU will not pick this console because they dont see the meaning of having to be always on an connected online to play there games.I will not miss you Microsoft!

[DeadlyFire]

Sounds like Windows or Steam/Origin type of deal. I detect Xbox Windows 820 coming up soon.

The plus side of this tech means we won't have to insert disc to play a game. This could relate more to XBL purchases than retail game discs. I suspect Sony's patent for similar tech was aimed at only PSN titles.

[Dee_91]

@FamilyGuy
who said playing off HDD was a bad thing?I dont mind that at all.Its neither bad nor good.Its the fact that we wont be able to play used games,No more gamefly.If you know this than do you really want slightly faster load screens over used games ?

[DOMination-]

Oh my god are you guys all seriously thick? You can still use the disk, its just that you won't need it if its installed to hdd. This is convenient as i won't have to keep getting up to swap discs if i want to play something else.

Basically sounds like XBL is turning into steam. And steam is universally praised on N4G.

[madjedi]

@family guy

Big fucking deal your going from being handicapped by "slow" optical drives, to a slow ass platter hdd.

It's still slow as hell regardless, the only way your statement would be accurate is if ms put solid state hard drives in the 720.

And the capacity needed just to make alot or all digital downloading remotely practical means it is a old fashioned platter hdd. Not unless you want to fork out a grand+ for the 720, with a large enough ssd.

Always on and always connected -_-. If net access is required for sp games, it will be lucky to get to half of the 360's sales. I really hope ms isn't that stupid.

We will see if this rumor is verified or proven false at e3 though.

We are stuck with rotational media for likely 1 last gen for games, the gen after the ps4 will likely use flash cards similar to the vita.

Deleting games you bought to make room for new games to buy, fuck that, it's called get a bigger hdd.

[THC CELL]

Can't be true. What if the hard drive fills up

[Sidewinder-]

"prance around in my room dancing to Tom Jones like Carlton from Fresh Prince of Bel Air"

You Too?!

Now I feel better.

[SilentNegotiator]

It's not unusual to hear me cry. Always on DRM? I wanna die.

[Buff1044]

Everyone needs to see how both machines pan out on launch day. What Sony announced won't necessarily come to fruition. What Microsoft announces won't necessarily come to fruition. Inevitably...something will get cut, something else won't work as it should.

[superterabyte]

Microsoft hasn't announced anything. The problem here is that the same rumors keep arising. Not to mention that edge have been consistently correct with recent rumors. An always online console is such a bad idea. For example when I moved house my internet went down for about 1 and a half months. This means that if I had an always online games console all I would really have had was a brick.

There could also be temp network failures, hackers etc. Who at Microsoft sat down and said in today's world network infrastructures are reliable enough to be totally dependent on?

[darthv72]

man that would have sucked if you were serious into world of warcraft or any other MMO type of game where emphasis there is "online".

Never played it myself so I am not sure of an offline mode. Time to bust out the super nintendo or PS2.

[Kurt Russell]

I'm with superabyte on this one, if I move house in the UK it can take over a month to be connected back up. If this means I can;t play offline, then I won't buy for this simple reason!

[Reibooi]

If they are using always on as a form of DRM it's suicide for this console. People get pissed when ONE PC game has this kinda thing and with a always on console every single game would do this.

I mean imagine going to the store buying the game you want to 60 bucks and then not being able to play cause your internet is down. You BOUGHT and OWN a physical copy of the game and can't play it. That is BS i am sorry to say. If that is what MS is aiming for I don't think they will be very successful.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

its always on as in just like you DVR at home...its always on, even if in a state of sleep so in a second it comes to life and works when you turn on your tv.

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

And what happens when your cablebox can't find the signal? Yup, that's the point, not how "always on" will work, but the implications of this feature.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

@bishop-br...there is mass speculation going on right now on the implications of this feature. From the end of used games to MS watching me all the time. What I have read and believe (again my opinion only), sounds like the box will be in a lower power state or elevated. Its connected just like you are connected to Steam and just like steam offline play is an option if connection is broken.

[darthv72]

you do know there is a difference between always on and always connected.....right?

in your comment of "And what happens when your cablebox can't find the signal?" is more about the always connected rather than always on.

Since signal issues are related to connection.

People are taking the literal meaning of the two terms. My ps3 is always on AND always connected. That is how i can do remote play over the internet.

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

@darthv72

And that's exactly why I used quotation mars around always on, Dlacy13g used this term and anology, but obviously that's not what everyone is so concerned about, it's the always connected interpretation that's getting everyone up to arms (specially right after the SimCity fiasco).

[_-EDMIX-_]

Agreed. Now I literally skipped Diablo 3 JUST because of that feature and even C&C4! Now it was 5 bucks on Steam, I was literally minutes from getting it, read it had always on DRM, I never bought it. It was literally the deciding factor in me buying it.

I game in my room in which I need to have wifi. Now if I'm gaming, there are times where I need to go in my liviing room and reconncet or fix my router. Doesn't mean my internet is off, just that I need to reset my router or make sure the cord is in tight etc.

But this is only an issue when I'm playing an online game, OH but if i own 720 its going to be EVERY GAME! errr no. It won't happen and I won't have that issue because I plan to never own a 720.

Not a Halo, Forza or Fable fan so......

[camel_toad]

Carlton's got moves.

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

I turn my pc off at night.

[MYSTERIO360]

What? with this model i expect at least 1T of storage space for the console. Don't think im gonna get a Nextbox from his info.

[ziggurcat]

if it doesn't block the ability to play single player games if, say, the network goes down or there's a problem with your ISP, then always-on isn't such a big deal, imo.

i think the issue most people have with this type of functionality is that it could mean that you can't play any single player campaign if you're not connected.

[MariaHelFutura]

It will be interesting to see what's true and what's not in the end surrounding this next console.

[hazardman]

I don't care about always on, cause your right most of our electronics are already always on. The thing that I'm worried about is if I'm able to game when I have no internet.
The article states that the games will be ddl to hdd rendering optical disc useless. So to me that's my main concern.

[GenericNameHere]

I don't know about you, but whenever it rains, my Wi-Fi f@cks up. I always have to turn it off, or on my iPhone, turn on 4G. It goes on for like at least 8 hours (not the rain, but the Wi-Fi being off). It's really annoying.

[Andreex]

yeah let's see what happens when the whole xbox live goes offline forever (as it did with the old xbox, dont say it doestn happen)

[Jakens]

Didn't think of that one but it's true and scary.

[rainslacker]

Forced obsolescence isn't that uncommon in a lot of industries nowadays, particularly in electronics. If they didn't completely drop it and maintained their servers for prior gens indefinitely it wouldn't be a problem. However, one day eventually they will cease support of whatever servers run this service. They already do it with quite a few of their products. The big difference though is that to date most of their products don't require an always on DRM.

Right now though it's hard to say if this rumor means that eventually the games you brought for the system would be unplayable in say 20 years time. IF that were the case it would be really sad, and shows more and more that a big player doesn't see gaming as more than a product, and not the actual art that it can be.

[Chaotic_Lament]

The always on might just be referring to power, as in its always turned on, not necessarily always needs to be connected to the internet.

[omi25p]

If want to dance to Tom Jones then i will. I couldn't give a damn is MS is watching or not.

[Gamer-Z]

For the people who keep saying its no different than my cable box or smart phone you are dead wrong because even if your phone losses connection you can at least still access apps and the other features of your phone where as a cable box cant do anything without a connection. If the nextbox is like a cable box where it has to have a connection to do anything then i can see a lot of people having a problem with this and also its kind of creepy to think that MS might be spying on you with kinect.

[joab777]

If its true, they r playing with real fire. Unless they r gonna sell it for $99 with a subscription to time warner, they may be in trouble. I guess only time will tell but not being able to use without internet will close off an entire base of gamers, casual and hardcore.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

Ok so the original leaks were legitimate. I thought it was just re hashed re-packaged rumors from the original sources. Which did dated back as early as last year.

“Durango will implement different power states so that it can always be powered on, but will draw minimal electricity when not in use,” the document reads. “The console will be ready instantly when users want to play, and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current. With this “Always On, Always Connected” design, users will quickly and easily enjoy their connected entertainment experiences, with no waiting for the console to restart or install games.”

That's cool an all but the burning question still remains, will it block used games with a 24 hour console? And what happens if I don't have internet? This is also interesting, if MS makes MP free, are they forcing people to be online at all times in return?

I freakin hope not

EDIT: But then again this doesn't necessarily spell doom. None of the sources confirmed blocking used games instead it seem more user feature just like I predicted in a another post and apparently I was right. http://n4g.com/news/1213838...
FYI I didn't know it was confirmed but I did notice the rumor popping back up since yesterday.

Like I stated I really hope 24 hour console is consumer feature and not corporate feature.

[Jakens]

Double post. sorry.

[fermcr]

Well, if the rumors are true, I'm pretty sure I won't be buying it. Simple as that. Microsoft are probably shooting them self's in the foot if these specs are implemented in their next console.

As for Sony, they still haven't presented all the details about the PS4, but for now, PS4 is likely the only console I'll purchase.

Just Sony and my PC for me next gen if true.

[The_KELRaTH]

Referring to using a mobile phone connection as a reference that always on is ok probably the best example of why always on is not ok.
How many times have you lost the signal even in major populated areas let a lone in rural spots.

Here's the thing it should be our choice as to whether we want things always on - MS dictating terms (yet again) does not create customer loyalty rather resentment

[JsonHenry]

The one thing I hate most about always on - if the network goes down for ANY reason you can't play. Not even single player. (go look at the most recent example- simcity)

Also- nothing sucks work than random hangs/lagging not because the console/pc can't handle the game but because the internet has a hiccup.

[-Mezzo-]

OH Sheet.

[redDevil87]

Shhheeeeeiiiiitttt indeed.

Source after source is confirming the same thing, yet people refuse to believe them.

[BanBrother]

I'm not disappointed at all or surprised. Just means I have to buy one less console next gen. When I play my games, online or single player, I am always connected. Yesterday, my internet was playing up and I kept getting disconnected, this hsppens a lot.

Microsoft have to get out of their bubble and realise not everyone has 30mb down and 8mb upload. I have 6mb down and 200-260kb up on a good day.

EDIT: I forgot, how much extra power will it use? It draws 'minimal power', which is a relative term. My power bills are f***** as i is. Thanks MS, if this is true, thèn you have saved me the displeasure of dealing with your scumbag ass next gen.

[Jakens]

Pay extra to play offline. Pay extra for diconnecting Kinect.

[redDevil87]

Mezzo, did you choose the pic for thumbnail?

LOL it's amazingly accurate

[-Mezzo-]

Yes, i did find that myself & used it, the original EDGE article did not used this on their Article.

:D

[JeffGUNZ]

Oh Sheet, what? From that article it suggests that the system will be in a standby mode, so when you want to play it's right there. Also, it appears that this always connected talk points towards automatic updates for games and system updates while you're not playing it. I still have not seen ANYTHING that says you need an internet connection to play a single player game. A lot of people here are twisting words to make bash the next xbox.

[GribbleGrunger]

In an earlier thread I pointed out that it says 'always on', which could just mean 'in a standby state', but this new info has 'always on, always connected' which suggests it IS going to require network connectivity. Surely, even if this is true at the moment, Microsoft will remove it from the final build. It just seems very risky when you consider that a huge amount of people can't afford or even can't get broadband.

[OlgerO]

Xbox is not going through with this, they know this would be a huge competitive disadvantage

[NastyLeftHook0]

i hope they do.

[amiga-man]

Of course it would be a disadvantage but they take away your internet access and force you to pay to get it back which is a major disadvantage but that didn't stop them doing it,

surely people are not gonna continue to put up with this crap.

[PSVita]

&olgerO-So was not having a blu-ray drive, built in wifi/hdmi, an external HDDVD drive, subscription online service etc. etc. but they did it and it didn't seem like people cared.....

[DigitalRaptor]

@ OlgerO

Possibly, but don't underestimate what Microsoft will do. They've got away with charging a $60 barrier to entry for basic P2P online gameplay for around a decade. As long as they can mask it among the notion that the rest of what you get for your money is worth it, they can and will do it.

[LackTrue4K]

my concern is what control Microsoft will have over my installed games. would they, for example, have the power to uninstall anything i've put on there?

[profgerbik]

You always sign an agreement for anything you use and no doubt Microsoft has already had the power to do just that if they wanted to. I highly doubt anyone actually read all of the agreement guidelines but I know just about every company who requires you to accept one, somewhere in there it will say they have the right to do just that.

Usually would never happen unless you were asking for it hacking or something like that. They could get in trouble themselves for abusing that of course but if they just wanted to completely ban you from ever using their system or games again. I know they have the right depending on the situation.

Most people just click accept on these agreements and have no idea how much they are actually signing up for.

[DragonKnight]

@profgerbik: They do not have the right to uninstall games you paid for, that would be stealing.

[meatnormous]

If they say the games are a service, then they do have the right to shut down the game on your console. Do you really think you own anything you download through live or psn?

[ceedubya9]

Connected, to me, seems to imply something different. When it says "users will quickly and easily enjoy their CONNECTED entertainment experiences, with no waiting for the console to restart or install games...," I'm not seeing that idea that the console will be required to be online. It looks like it is more alluding to your first statement about the console being in a standby state. While in standby, things will still occur in the background. Taking out the waiting time for little things that could keep us from getting to our games or aps quicker.

Of course, the console will require an internet connection to work (obviously), but if a person doesn't have the console connected, they will still more than likely be able to play their games but won't be able to take advantage of the benefits that are provided by an online console.

[JOHN_DOH]

I think it's going to require some kind of subscription. Things that require constant connection like cable boxes, cell phones, internet all require subcription, and Microsoft has been successful in charging for multiplayer.

[joeorc]

it just seems to me service base that it will keep updates to the system an its software be it game or application. the only real problem that may happen is if the game or application would need the recent patch to play the game online. which happens, now if the update happens to also be a way to determine if the game or software needs to verify its code to be that of security token and you need internet to confirm that than that may also be problem. It just depends on how Microsoft designed its new dashboard an software security token system to see what limitations or lack there of are used.

people it seem's are just really jumping the gun right now, there really is no real information about this issue being even the case.

[Cocozero]

So it has nothing to do with used games then? Always on refers to power not internet. Sounds just like what the PS4 is doing so you can start your game where you finished it straight away.

Edit: On a side note the pic for the article is a bit random...

[Gazondaily]

Haha yeah- it's related to the Hypno-toad. Don't believe me? Watch how hot this article gets.

[imtheman2013]

That's not hypno-toad. It's Rango, from the animated film. I think whoever posted this was playing on the fact the next Xbox is codenamed 'Durango.'

[Gazondaily]

Yeah I know I was just making a jok.......ah forget it.

[OlgerO]

It doesnt say anywhere that the always online will be needed to play, im sure you can disable it

[Jek_Porkins]

How is this not rumor as well? Gonna wait for official reveals and not worry about what if's from mere rumors.

[Arai]

Because it's information from official documents.
That's not to say that things won't or can't change.

[Veneno]

Rumor or not, this gossip going on right now is putting Microsoft in a hugely negative light and they need to come forth and give us some answers. Its either that or have gamers rejecting Xbox Next before it's even been announced!

[Jek_Porkins]

Have you ever thought that that is the reason these rumors are going around in the first place? It's a tactic to try and force Microsoft's hand and tip what they actually do have.

Last year we heard almost the same rumors about the next PlayStation, so if I were Microsoft I'd stick to the plan, let people talk, there is no bad publicity.

Show off the console when they are ready. Only an idiot believes everything they hear on the internet.

[eliteslaya13]

No thanks, MS.

I foresee Sony winning this battle, at least in terms of quality. As much as I love me some Halo, Forza, and Gears, the 720 will have to wait. Assuming this is all true of course.

Microsoft is shooting itself in the foot with all of this 'entertainment experience' bull.

[LOL_WUT]

This is bad move on Microsofts part but can't we all at least wait until we see it for ourselves?

[aquamala]

What "move"?

[matrixman92]

i dont understand why people are taking this as a bad thing...do you not even read the article? this is essentially the same thing Sony is doing

[eliteslaya13]

Except Sony clearly wants to primarily focus on the actual GAMES for their GAME console.

And no, i'm not referring to the article. This is based off of an educated guess considering their track record with Kinect and the apparent leaked info(Which i'll assume is very much true).

I can see the 720 becoming a Kinect 2.0 focused machine with a few 'hardcore' games to scratch that itch, but nothing more. MS has this very obnoxious fetish for 'entertainment'. Why not build these things into their OS rather than their GAME console?

And really, why would Microsoft change now after years of Kinect mediocrity but substantially larger sales? Kinect's where the money's at, unfortunately.

[Jek_Porkins]

Well we haven't heard Microsoft actually say anything, but we know Sony will have a similar camera, always on and doing downloads/updates, a low power mode and they brought out the Move at their showcase and even showed off new social features and a "share" button on their controller.

I think Microsoft gets the benefit of the doubt, we don't know anything real, just rumors, and we don't know 100% of what the next PlayStation is doing, it might have to always be on as well, we just don't know.

[matrixman92]

because this article is totally about that

[HSx9]

If Kinect V2 is something like this, I'm all for it. http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[JeffGUNZ]

@ eliteslaya13. If you really want to make an educated guess, wouldn't signs point the MS exclusives being created for this system? Wouldn't that explain the lack of exclusives in the last 2 years? You have no idea what MS is doing, nor do I, so we just have to wait.

Also, stop the kinect hate, it's so pathetic. Sony announced the MOVE the same time MS did Kinect. The only difference is Sonys MOVE failed miserably and the KINECT was popular. Both companies were expanding to bring in casuals.

Don't believe me? Check the link below and explain those "hardcore" games. If the MOVE sold like Kinect, people here would be singing a different tune.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref...

[creatchee]

It's a "bad thing" because it has to do with Microsoft's next console. Surely you know how N4G works?

[ALLWRONG]

+1

[MysticStrummer]

Sure we know how N4G works, and it goes both ways. Don't act like it doesn't. You seem to have forgotten the flood of "PS3 is Doomed" articles.

lol The fact that ALLWRONG agrees with you says it all, really.

[kenshiro100]

Yes,because Sony is never bashed on this site, right?

It goes both ways so stop playing the victim.

[Minato-Namikaze]

Difference being ps4 doesnt need an internet connection. It has an offline mode

[ceedubya9]

And how do we know that the new Xbox won't be able to be played offline? I think too many people are looking way too deep into this "always on, always connected" thing. I think a lot of us are taking what is simply a marketing tag line and making more out of it than what it truly means.

[CommonSenseGamer]

Will the masses care?

Its the masses that decide what succeeds and fails not the handful of so called "gamers" that frequent this site and feel that the world revolves around them. The benefits of always on and always connected can be sold just as effectively as a service like PS+

however, let's wait till all the facts are known before we waste time setting up encampments and attacking something that most of those making the noise about never intend on buying anyway.

[mechlord]

Matrix,
How is this the same thing SONY is doing? To this day, i havent heard such thing as PS4 having to connect to the internet to allow you playing something.

People, please be sensible here and look at the big picture:

MICROSOFT, released WIn8 shitty as it is, *forcing* kb+mouse users to primarily use a touch-centric OS. Remember how DOS became COMMAND LINE a while ago? theyre trying the same strategy again, shoving the new touch centric interface to people that dont need or want it. Why im bringing this?
Because the XBOXNEXT is trying to shove again, something we as gamers dont need: always on DRM. If this were the always on we are used to, with auto sign-on and shit, they wouldnt even mention it as a feature. Make no mistake,this is a DRM thing. Add to it the NO USED GAMES rumour and you can understand this better. Its no secret MS want to have the kind of control APPLE has of its OS, its PCs and their I STORES; This is just one step in that direction. If you see the XBOXNEXT AS A MEDIA DEVICE then it isnt as bothersome as it looks.....especially when its kinda established that MS is focusing not on games, but on 'entertainment'

[Pillsbury1]

Ms needs to release the facts then the backlash will begin.

[meatnormous]

Maybe they don't release the facts to avoid the back lash. People of n4g have been following this, but n4g is a very small percentage of gamers. If Microsoft says something, it goes mainstream in seconds. Them staying quiet is very troubling as good news is always delivered quickly.

[JeffGUNZ]

Why is it troubling? Perhaps they have planned to announce and reveal at E3 and will continue to do so. To me, MS not responding shows that the PS4 reveal did little to nothing in scaring them or intimidating them. It really looks like MS is confident in their product and will announce when they want to.

[maniacmayhem]

“The console will be ready instantly when users want to play, and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current. With this “Always On, Always Connected” design, users will quickly and easily enjoy their connected entertainment experiences, with no waiting for the console to restart or install games.”

So why is everyone worried?

Anyways, doesn't the 360 sort of have this feature? I know when I download a game and turn the system off the game still loads, it also updates when the power is off.

[darthv72]

I mean, mine is always on even in standby mode. Plus its always connected. That is how I do remote play over the internet.

Too many are taking the literal approach to a figurative marketing line.

[dumahim]

You keep saying your PS3 is always on and always connected. If it is, that's a choice you made. Mine is neither. Yes, it has a standby mode, but for the most part it is powered down and definitely not connected.

You can check your router's connected devices and see it isn't connected.

[Jakens]

It is nothing like the 360. Yes, the news is bad.

[Prcko]

lol if this is reallly true i think microsoft is dead :/

[hot4play]

Pffbbt...
Watch the Xbox zealtots defend this like its a good thing similar to how they defend paying for Xbox Live; acting like its the best thing to happen to console gaming.

[DivineAssault]

all games need to be installed???? Thats not very good.. Hopefully they dont use proprietary HDD because ppl will need LOTS of storage if this is true.. That always connected feature may be optional tho.. MS fans better hope so because thats not going to get them anywhere

[Cueil]

they didn't have a proprietary HDD this gen they had a special casing for the drive... you can tear it apart for the 2.5 inch HDD

[joeorc]

be that Xbox360 fans or Sony and Nintendo fans disagreeing with him really does not matter. WHAT HE STATED IS QUITE TRUE! Microsoft does not make hard drives, the hard drive in the xbox360 hard drive "can" is indeed a standard 2.5" hard drive. that is the truth and is a fact.

the Hard drive is made by other companies hell even Sony's ps3 hard drive along with Nintendo and their storage options is not made by Sony or Nintendo because they also do not make their own Hard drive's or storage both Nintendo and Sony like Microsoft purchase the hard drives an storage options from another company!

[DivineAssault]

yes this is true however most people wont bother with that... & this gen didnt require all games to be installed & then the disc becomes useless..

[Cueil]

@joeorc this site is full of ignorant people who can't see past their fanatical obsession with their preferred console of choice

[profgerbik]

Microsoft might as well just quit making Consoles now if this is true. No one is going to enjoy that, that is some bullshit. One reason many people buy consoles is simply because they don't necessarily need to install every single game.

.. and since when has Microsoft cared about who has internet or not? Since when has anyone really?

I mean my little sister is only 6 years old and in today's society teachers seriously expect her to have her own laptop to use for homework... which isn't a problem but as you said not everyone can afford these things or even have internet to use with their laptop or even have both but sadly it doesn't stop anyone from making it better for those people. They still expect everyone to have these things or to have internet to research their homework on.

Ridiculous how many times she comes home saying my teacher said we have to use a computer for this.. I just say to myself what if we weren't fortunate, what if we couldn't do that? Do these people care about alienating kids like that especially the less fortunate ones?

[Grimhammer00]

The real issue is "always connected"....apply this to always installs to HDD. You get consumer screwed over.

You'll install game and the connected part means it'll log a unique ident to MS servers. Rendering the disc a coaster. I suspect it'll allow a unlock for a cost of used. Thanks to GameStop that means $45+
It's proven we'll pay that....but now it'll only apply to direct sales. Unless they figure out a way to split it with GameStop/bestbuy/futureshop etc.
Too much greed here. GameStop won't want to suddenly share 50% of used sales....but also won't haveca choice! (Percentages will not be 50/50....who knows what it'll be. But it won't be 100% to used retail store anymore)

Or maybe it means you'll need the disc in the machine. Which is ok like today's drm crap.

Either way....always connected means bad connections/disconnects and no wifi means too bad for you!

[ApolloTheBoss]

Yep, that seals it. PS4 HERE I COME!

[creatchee]

I like it, as long as it doesn't end up being a method of controlling the end user. For example, such a system could allow system and title updates when you're at work or school, or performing system maintenance tasks to keep things running at a good level.

Also, think push notifications but oriented for console (as long as we have options to determine what notifications we get). You could even have virtual competitions, like keeping an eye on your number of kills in a shooter or fastest laps in a racing game and you get notifications that a friend has beaten or is close to beating your accomplishment. That would be cool.

I don't want this to be for DRM or "malicious" monitoring or anything else. If it benefits gamers, then awesome. If it's for corporate reasons, then the hell with it.

[GreenRanger]

I'll going to wait for official news before i decide to rage or not.

[Pillsbury1]

Dragon zord rageeeeee!!! Doo doo do doo do doooooo!

[dazzrazz]

I'm reading those comments and must say either people are completely retarded or they didn't or did read and just can't understand what was written in there.

[ILive]

I think the disk part is what has most people worried.

[andreasx]

Dealbreaker right here, if true ofcourse. I know I will be getting a ps4 no matter what

[GreenRanger]

Anyone else getting errors all over the site?

[GreenRanger]

.

[OC_MurphysLaw]

This is what I love about N4G. Reading this thread is amuzing. "THAT SEALS IT, GETTING A PS4"... really? Sealed off a rumor? Nah...most of these opinions were sealed the moment the words PS4 were uttered.

The screen grabs in question are from Visual Studios 2012 and apparently the build of Visual Studio's was from Sept. 2012.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

[Dms2012]

So everyone seems to be ignoring the heading at the very beginning: "This document is prelimenary and subject to change". The vast majority here on N4G wish this to be true, and not-so-secretly want Sony to be the ONLY player in gaming, period.

[deadfrag]

DO you know the Word PC or Wii U,IM NOT RELATING THAN TO SONY ,but you are!

[Omegasyde]

I dislike MS, but I definitely don't want them out of the console business.

If it wasn't for XBL, PSN and the Nintendo network would have no competition and no need to innovate.

[Cueil]

there would be no PSN or Nintendo Network if it wasn't for XBL... Microsoft forced Sony's and Nintendo's hand and in the end that is good for consumers... there are a ton of people on here who wish Microsoft would just fold up their console as if somehow that would make Sony a better company

[jizzyjones]

Durango Chained

[anderssc]

To people who think that the article does not mention anything about requiring online connectivity, let us look at the ramifications of what we do know.

No optical reader usage beyond the initial install period for each new game. What are the chances that Microsoft will allow a new Xbox 720 game to be borrowed/rented, installed on the hard drive and then simply returned to the store/owner?

Unless they have some sort of system in place that will block used games without connecting to the internet (which hasn't happened yet) then you cannot look at the facts directly in the eye and state that it is a likely business decision on Microsoft's part or in their best interests to not have this always online requirement.

[ceedubya9]

I see it as the game will be installed to the drive, but the disc will still be needed in order for you to play. The 360 does this now, as you can't play an installed disc game without having the disc in the tray. I can still delete the data when I'm done and trade the game in at gamestop if I want. The new Xbox will probably be similar, except instead of having the option to install the game, we will be required to install it. May not mean that we can't take the disc to someone else's house. Just that the data will need to be copied to that console as well if it is going to be played.

Certain PS3 games require portions of the game to be installed in order to played. In the case of the new Xbox, whole games will need to be installed and not just a portion.

Either way, I think that it would be tough to assume that the installation would mean that used games can't be played on the console. Can't really say one way or the other just yet, but PS3 and 360 examples seem to point to there being no problem with used games.

Seems like this is just a design choice that was made, and not a way to block used games. We'll find out soon enough what they are really up to.

[C-Thunder]

I thought of the current way 360 handles installs as well. But that would run against their push for how convenient its supposed to be, no waiting, etc...

Could go either way, but there's no good reason to require an install like this if they're going to use the discs anyway.

[ceedubya9]

C-Thunder

Again, I think this is similar to PS3 installs, except on a full scale. Think of it along the terms of a lot of PS3 games in which you have to install a certain amount of some games in order to play it. This could be the same for the new Xbox, except the full game will be installed.

But, it could still retain the functionality of 360 installs in that the disc must still be in the tray in order for the game to played. The game may not play from the disc, but the disc must still be there in order to play the game.

If this is what is going to happen, it really isn't too much of a problem as long as, like the 360, you can delete the data from your hdd if you need to make space and just download it again when you want to play.

This is all just speculation though, but really I can't see any reason why Microsoft would do anything much different. Otherwise, the console may as well just be a PC.

[Grimhammer00]

It isn't the rumor....it's the info with sources that are confirmed in the know, coupled with MS history of what it does and doesn't do.

It doesn't care about games. It does push ads and kinect.

So, what are we to think? That the company who charges for online play, did charge for a wifi adapter at waaaay over market price at that time...is suddenly not going to take every advantage of bits users? If this drm online crap is applied to every game then they lose nothing.

Ps4 will do something similar. I'm certain.

But I suspect MS will be far worse due to what it already tries to sell us.

[cl1983]

Unnamed sources equals rumor.

[Omegasyde]

Why would they name sources, if this information is supposed is protected for a non-disclosure agreement?

If MS knew the identity, they could go after the source with legal ramifications without would lead up to the source being terminated and/or being sued.

[jmac53]

One last bit of info for me to completely jump ship with Microsoft is BC and the lack thereof. If they don't have it it's the PS4 right next to my 360.

[erikthegman]

All Sony needs to do is pull in all the COD players to own next gen and steal Microsoft's bread and butter. Microsoft will have to reveal a megaton bombshell at E3 to win the masses over.

[josephayal]

I hope this is wrong, or i will not be buying an XBOX 720

[Max-Zorin]

How about we wait for the official announcement and not make decisions over some rumors?

[livealie25]

Apparently people decide on rumors...

[Omegasyde]

The source has been proven reliable. Look at the leaked info Edge provided before the official unveiling of the PS4.

My guess is that Edge is getting its info from a former staff member who is now working with a developer.

[AllroundGamer]

"and the land of the free"... not. Wonder what type of bypass will hackers come up with :)

[Omegasyde]

Could be difficult if each blue ray has a specific serial number (think unique barcode) somewhere on the exterior of the disc.

[cyhm3112]

waste electricity, probably want to spy on you using kinect, or just want to have no piracy

[ceed911]

That doesn't exactly sound like YOU MUST. I think it is more like a feature, like if you read that in context, it says that you can keep it connected at all times and receive the latest updates, so you are always ready to play.

It doesn't really state that you are forced to be online and it could be a nice feature especially when you put in a disc now and need to receive updates (especially for low-speed internet users) and also not to mention the atrocious PS3 updates.

But by all means lets jump to conclusions because this is n4g

[Ol_G]

@darthv72
ps+ works with licences you don't need the internet the license has the expiration date of your plus subscription

[KaBaW]

When I think of 'always on' the first thing that comes to mind is .. always on.
Meaning, that when you flip over to it and 'start it up' it skips the boot up process.
It will just go from, say, a black screen straight to where you left off from last time.

[majedx9]

and the PSP can do that.

[Saleem101]

Cant play used games on new xbox wow ill pass...

[C-Thunder]

Technically it doesn't say that. But the install requirement certainly suggests a strong possibility it will work like a PC, which means no used games.

[Many-hat5]

Seems to be two schools of thought on this issue. Firstly, those who don't think 'always connected' is a big deal - MS loves you guys. And secondly, those who think it is a big deal- MS doesn't care, guys.I'm firmly in the later camp, and here's why.A little thing called choice. As some of you guys have already mentioned,it's the choice that's being taken away.Personally, I'm getting a little tired of software companies behaving like third world dictators,telling gamers what we can and cannot do with software we have purchased.No other industry in the entire world thinks it has the right to abuse it's customers in this way.What really worries me though,is that MS will be fully aware of the problems this DRM will cause, but will simply lie to it's user base, selling it as wonderful benefit. What's even scarier, is that many will believe it!I have been a strong supporter of the 360, in terms of software purchased and LIVE membership, but if this aspect of the next box is true- and it does seem likely,and also providing SONY stick to their word - not guaranteed,it will definately be PS4 for me. I'll exercise my choice,thank you.

[Ukdude]

Still only rumours at the mo,i'd be very surpised if microsoft make they console online only,especially as word of mouth states you can install game data straight on the hardrive,why limit your market in a cut throat business?
My instinct is:
They want the console to be online as much as possible so they can control/monitor data being sent/received to the console (registering game discs to stop the 2nd hand market and copy what facebook are doing regarding links/sponsors) etc.
Microtransactions will be the moneyspinner in my view for the next gen,maybe my generation(in my 30's) may not take too kindly to it but the younger generation could be educated/coaxed into it,just look at fifa/c.o.d. and the mobile market,kids are falling for it now,the popularity is gonna rise year after year when it becomes the norm.
I honestly think the single player game has had its day,multiplayer is where the future/money/customisation is.
After all its a well known 'secret' the next xbox will be half way between a console and a pc,a bit like the 360 now but on a much bigger scale.just a thought,,,,

[WeAreLegion]

I still doubt it. I think they'll use every feature the PS4 has, except for streaming. If they do, it won't touch Gaikai.

[XabiDaChosenOne]

Is Microsoft serious right now?

[ps3_pwns]

The people who are still trying to buy the x720 or who buy the x720 thats who you gonna have to be asking are they serious because it makes no sense to get that unless you want to play halo all day for the rest of the gen or kinect
.

[Rhaigun]

All games are downloaded? To what extent? Then whole game, or just textures and such? Because today's games are 6gb or more. Next gen games will be even larger.

Also, if always on refers to internet connection, I will skip the Xbox all together.

[silverbeld]

Nice! Well done Microsoft!

Just screw your fans right in the face and they like it. Xbox fans will buy youre crappy box no matter what.

[zbg31610]

Even if they change it and eliminate this internet connection requirement, xbox doesn't look good. The rumored specs, along with their campaign against used games (which is legitimate, they posted a poll on their official facebook page), the fact that you must pay for live, and now this? Any of those 4 are deal breakers and the chances of all 4 being false is very unlikely.

I just don't understand how an educated person can advocate for xbox over playstation at this point, but that's just me....

[GraveLord]

DRM on top of DRM on top of DRM.

[ATi_Elite]

Big Brother is Now watching You!

What a waste of Electricity.....OH wait I never turn my PC's off DOH!

No big deal except I hate that camera thing, never know if MS is Spying on YOU!!!

OH and BWAH HA HA HA HA to anyone who ever laughed at PC Online DRM. Now look what you got!

[meday354]

1 word PS4.

[MadLad]

If so, screw Microsoft this generation.
I might miss out on Halo and Fable (yes, I still like Fable), but hopefully future Alan Wake releases will make their way to pc as well.
Happy I am making the transition to pc gaming soon. Will grab a PS4 and WiiU once they have a strong lineup of exclusives, but I don't think I will even be bothering with Microsoft this generation.
This is coming from someone whose main gaming platform was the 360 since around launch.

[air1]

Man... Never seen so many scared " gamers "

What if you can choose to be always on and connected..

You know like an on and off feature for the always on feature, would you still be scared then?

Ps4 for me day one, i have my reasons why... But this rumor if true will not make my list of why im not getting the nextbox at launch.

Some of you come up with the dumbest shit!

[vhsdiuioushdf]

sdghjrtykt

[worldwidegaming]

Id rather we yell this.
Oh We're Not Gonna Take It
no, We Ain't Gonna Take It
oh We're Not Gonna Take It Anymore!

[first1NFANTRY]

From a gamers perspective this is game over for M$. My relationship (which was hanging by a thin thread) with M$ from the lack of exclusives available will be no more if this is true.

I am mainly a single player first kinda guy and this confirms their just interested in buggy fps multilayer games with no story or substance for a quick buck. I'll pass if they announce this to be true.

This also means loss of sales from people with no internet access around the world.

[TemplarDante]

I have a 10mb internet line and a cap of 20GB.. after that, an unlimited soft cap where they throttle my line at 1mb...
So, If true, it rules out me buying the nextbox. I just cant bare watching my bandwidth burn by Ad downloading or Kinect always on.

[Sunk]

Sim City anyone? Imagine buying the new xbox and not being able to play it for the first couple days due to network demand.

[Rhaigun]

Also in the Durango XDK, it mentions that Kinect will be sold with all SKUs,and is required for the system to operate. What?! So, the Kinect is also a form of DRM? Kinect not connected = brick.

Stupid.

[silkrevolver]

God damnit...

Nail in the coffin: it's a PS4 for me.

[tsn]

Disgusting, weare going to get to a point where everything about us will be all linked.

Facebook gmail google accounts with credit card and address info consoles what we watch on tv YouTube everything, they are going to be able to monitor consumer stats and manipulate the shit out of it to get more and more and more and more and more and more and more money out of us.

Kinect being forced could mean they keep facial recognition info building a database of the world, CCTV will probably be able to scan and identify faces quite easy.

[unicronic]

The bigger issue is that there are an embarrassing amount of places that CAN'T access either stable internet services or the internet itself.

That essentially alienates all of those consumers - I'm willing to be that the number of people who fall into that category globally is significant.

[Bob570]

I won't believe this until MS themselves say it. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would switch to PS4 if this was the case. I'd heavily consider doing that myself.

[tsn]

And for people who don't understand how big this could be, blizzard did it with Diablo 3 and basically no body plays that game anymore in fact many more play Diablo 2 which is 12 years old. Go figure.

[urwifeminder]

Day one for me as long as sony is not written on it.

[Zepherite]

I much prefer the Xbox myself, but I don't see how you could just dismiss Sony like that.

There's no denying that free multiplayer and the variety of exclusives, are both advantages of the PS3 and I can't see that changing much next gen.

I'll be waiting till the next Microsoft console is actually confirmed before I decide which I prefer.

[urwifeminder]

I wont buy another sony product as long as i can avoid it i dont care if it was the best thing ever made.

[Legendary-Status]

RROD my console has to rest sometime. Lol

[aLiEnViSiToR]

This is gone be BIG fail for xbox... not to mention this is so wrong in may ways.

[smashcrashbash]

First of all I doubt that Microsoft would alienate themselves using some of the things that they rumored to be are implementing.If they are they have gone crazy.And second I love how people jumped on every crazy PS4 rumor pointing and laughing and now that it is their turn it's 'Stop and think, let's be reasonable about this'. Gamers are some of the most two faced people on the planet.

[jmac53]

If and when Microsoft implements DRM/always connected, its going to be a train wreck of epic proportions. It will be entertaining to say the least how they back pedal or try to spin this as a good thing fresh off the Simcity disaster. The next few months will be entertaining!

[IQUITN4G]

An obvious concern is if we'll be able to play all our software down the line if for whatever reason live ceases to be there. Its unlikely MS wont be here in say 10 or 15 years but what if I can't access my purchased game on my still functioning hardware. If I have to be online to play then this is a problem

Anyway this is the direction the industry is heading and unfortunately for me that means I wont wish to continue gaming

With films you at least know there isn't this danger of not being able to watch something in 20 or so years so the always online aspect if fine but for games it's entirely different concerning if it will be possible to play them any more

[Mkai28]

Always on, like a PC..

[Thatlalala]

Exactly. I think the last time my PC shutdown was during a storm and power went out. Everything else I own is already "always on". Who says you cant just hit the switch on your surge protector... I do it out of habit and cheaper electricity bills already.

[bugenhagen151]

I work abroad and dont have access to free or fast internet for 10 months a year, what about people like me? I dont like the idea of a choice of console being forced on me. I am sure I am not the only one who has a situation like that.

[kostchtchie_]

then you wont be playing anything on Xbox, always online means no offline Sp gaming

[inFAMOUS_KRATOS]

well, for me the only reason i don't like always online"

i have younger siblings and i always log out of the network when they are playing on the ps3, i dont want them to get stuck in the virtual world.

this a no go for me,and what is the point of throwing 65 dollar or 75 dollars for a disk only to be digital after the first insert?

[ElementX]

Nowhere in this article does it say it HAS to always be connected. It says that the Xbox will have some sort of hibernate mode and stay connected to the Internet, it probabaly means the same way a PC does and it can probabaly autoupdate games like Steam. People will freak out about everything. Just wait until the reveal instead of listening to all of these rumors. Also Eurogamer states this information was from last year.

[Lifebanisher]

Straight talk. Name of the Article should be "Xbox 720 Always Online DRM"
it's for the hackers to keep em away from their games always checking on the console. Even if it's just a single player game it needs to be online for that on xbox 720. i think it's not going to play games while your xbox is offline, But it's ok just go watch your cable tv on your xbox if you can't play games on it, wait that needs to be online to oh shit just buying a Ps4 and Pc or Steambox next gen.

[Thatlalala]

I'm more worried about mandatory installing games... I mean wtf? 50gig blue ray disc... even with 500 gigs... thats only 10 games. Sure some games won't fill up all 50 gigs. But eventually as this new generation moves on the discs will get fatter and fatter. Iffy.

[bugenhagen151]

Agree this is scary, think how long its going to take to install a 50 gig game onto your hard drive. I have more than 10 games that I play on ps3 if you have a big collection how annoying will it be to have to uninstall and reinstall games that you want to go back and replay. YIKES. If nothing is read off the disc then that's a heck of a lot of data you are going to be required to store for every game you want to play.

[TheSurg]

You guys can even read? It doesn't say you can't play without internet! It says durango will stay in sleep mode connected to internet when he has such ability to update games etc when you are not using it! Learn to read.

[Tei777]

I stopped paying for XBL and now I can't play Banjo Tooie, a game that I bought with my own damn money!

Anyways on topic. Fuck you microsoft!

I still eagerly await the reveal of the new Xbox, If they are brave enough to do this,it must have some redeeming features+exclusives.

[talisker]

I just came to say I love the picture.

[Psn800]

The hackers will have a field day with this .

[cleft5]

If true I will not be buying this console.

[steve30x]

If its true that it will be always online then they can keep it. On the other hand if my games will play offline too then I will consider the next xbox.

[Dfooster]

My Internet connection isn't even always on as it constantly drops off. If this is true I'm just going to buy a ps4 next gen as I like technology that makes my life easier not restricts me in doing things I can already do.

[SDF Repellent]

The PS4 is also “always connected”. It is called Connected standby. It has connection to the internet and downloads stuff in the background so it is ready when you eventually need it. Ring a bell? That is EXACTLY what sony talked about at thier press conference.
http://www.shacknews.com/ar...
Yoshida told Eurogamer. "The system has the low-power mode - I don't know the official term - that the main system is shut down but the subsystem is awake. Downloading or updating or you can wake it up using either the tablet, smartphone or PS Vita."

Always connected is not the same as drm checks every second to make sure you don’t do piracy. And it doesn’t mean that if you lose your connection it won’t work. That is not the news here at all. That was the previous rumor. The new rumor only says it is “always on” and “always connected”, just like the PS4.

Sorry, double post, but the truth must be said. It is a tough job but someone gotta do it.

[fsfsxii]

Difference is that the console won't be useless if you have internet problems.
Oh, by the way, you found the prefect timing to blow your stealth sony trolling cover

[snowman2149]

Bhahahaa I knew it! lol you really think current xbox gamers are gonna like this? They are gonna be PISSED

[puamdefokejpn]

So basically,.. Sony and Nitty alone again,..

(but never doubt the power of media propaganda on brainwashed people,.. and MS owns this,.. even then I think most Americans aren't THAT stupid)

[MultiConsoleGamer]

This is a terrible idea and it will only lead to headaches for gamers everywhere.

I also don't want Kinect always on in my living room. That reason alone is enough to avoid the next box. (And I don't even have to mention Microsoft's criminally shoddy hardware.)

However, a word of advice to the gloating fanboys in this comment section. Your hearts will utterly break when your learn about the terrible ideas coming from your own favorite company. You have no idea what's coming... So be careful about throwing stones in your glass house.

Here's a hint... The PS4 controller requires the PS Eye camera. The two are inseparable. And when you play games its always on. The new controller functions like a camera assisted six axis controller.

The PS4 also has some vicious anti piracy features that could be a major pain in the ass. Bad for pirates is a good thing. Bad for consumers is something else.

[cyclindk]

Um... this is a good thing so long as it doesn't employ some sort of overbearing DRM BS that prevents players from enjoying their OFFLINE games without an internet connection.

[acdata]

Unreal Engine 4 doesn't support streaming from optical media , and that's the point.

[tsn]

You guys who re saying Oh PS3 is always on so is my DVD player etc yes it is you are correct, but what you are missing is Always On in this sense means you cannot play games with out being online.

What Blizzard did with Diablo is create a Real Money Auction house were you can sell your loot/items and Blizzard get a cut of each transaction, what also Blizzad did with Always On is manipulate drops rates by the server knowing what class's are in each group by doing that they adjust drop rates so nothing drops for your class... What does that mean? you are forced to search for items on the Real money auction house.

That killed the Diablo Franchise.

[inFAMOUS_KRATOS]

even if this true, i still think microsoft fans will buy it anyways, i mean if people buy brand new phone every 6 month, what makes ya think they won't go for always online gaming console?

most humans are morons and whatever the trend is, " the whats cool to get next " type of consumers will be the first to get it.

[fsfsxii]

You mean the XBOX zealots will defend it like their life depends on it. lol

[fsfsxii]

If this is true, then MS is pretty much giving everybody who has crappy internet connection the middle finger.

[1nsomniac]

To all the Xbox fanboys who say why is this such a big problem, I don't think u fully understand. This is a big problem no matter what console it's on. If u loose ur Internet connection, move house, switch provider, have an Internet dark spot in ur house where the console is kept, maintenance, then the console is essentially useless & might aswell be used as a door step.

This is very, very bad news!!

[IcicleTrepan]

So many people are taking this out of context. Basically they're talking about how the console will operate when it's 'off'. It technically won't be off. It will be in a special standby mode that is able to give you an 'instant on' type of experience as well as auto downloading game updates while you don't have the system turned on fully. Basically, on current 360, when you start a game it checks for an update, well this would do all that for you while you're at work or school with the console 'off' and so when you go to play the game the wait for the update is not there any more. It's a good thing not a bad thing.

It has nothing to do with being online in a mandatory fashion. I'm sure if you don't have a net connection for it that it won't matter, you just won't be able to take advantage of this feature. I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand when the article is quite clear on it. I guess people see what they want to see when they are biased.

[bunfighterii]

People are jumping at shadows here. This leak doesn't confirm it will be required to be always on and have some kind of DRM, but rather has that ability, just like the PS4.

[JeepGamer]

Why do I get the feeling that it would be the end of the world if PS4 had this feature but since its the new XB people are jumping in to claim it's no big deal?

[Brucis]

People have been claiming that if this isn't an option and is mandatory then this is a horrible move. Don't try to stir up crap between fanbases.

[JustHumorMe]

You guys do realise that even the Wii had 'always on, always connected' functionality, right?

[valormeer]

If this is true RIP Xbox

[devilhunterx]

Major Self-Pwn, I presume?

[Drainage]

everyone is always on when they are playing online games with XBL so why is everyone crying? are you guys the casual single player gamers? dial up users?

[etownone]

I don't know what to think.

So far, Ps4 looks to be doing everything right.

And rumors of Xbox Durango just keeps putting me off more and more.

Hope MS blows the doors off E3 and change my mind. Cause I really want a next gen Xbox. But:
I don't want to have mandatory Kinect on every console coming from someone that owns 3 Xbox 360's.
I don't want the used game market to disappear or one game that I buy to be tied to one console. That's just bullshit..... Considering I borrow and let friends borrow games all the time.

And I don't want to continue paying for LiVe if PSN will continue being free next gen.

[ichimaru]

n4g is changing your mind. if I could report 10- negative articles a day about oranges, you'd subconsciously be atleast put off by the sight of oranges. its a poor man's behavioral psychology jn action which is why I will reserve my judgement. I don't enjoy being bullied into likening or hating a product

[Kennytaur]

The third console curse strikes again!

[TheTwelve]

Huh. Good point.

[Erdrick]

great, it'll be hogging bandwidth when not in use?

[fr3d0]

if this doesnt convince xbots they've been getting ripped off since 2001 and for the forseeable future, I don't know what will.

Durango = D.O.A.

[Wotbot]

The only console rip off I received was when I paid £425 for my PS3 console only and only one good game was available at the time.

Don't children use the term xbots????

[Wotbot]

Connected 24/7 is cool and the way forward, why wouldn't it be?

If you let in sink in for a second and think about the whole social aspect gaming, this move is the only way for console progression and I am sure Sony will follow.

It's not that strange when most people have their phones on 24/7 and even go to bed with them just so they can stay connected while sleeping.

Good move.

[TheSurg]

People need to learn to read. It's a standby mode that updates games automaticly etc, when you don't use your xbox. Same thing was in old one but now it will automaticly check games for updates. Nowhere it states that you won't be able to play offline. Seriously guys learn to read!

[PooEgg]

Although I bought the 360, PS3, and even the Wii this generation, and I bought the Xbox, PS2, and Gamecube the generation before, not to mention all the consoles that came before them, which I also bought. I honestly do not like where the future of video games is going. If the rumors turn out to be true, and always online is the path for the next Xbox I guess it will just save me money, since I will not be buying into it.

I am a single player gamer, I don't give a shit about twitter, facebook, or other social media nonsense, and I don't need it invading my games. Game time is the only time when I can step away from my friends, my work, and my life responsibilities, and just have some nice alone time. Additionally, all of my game consoles get unplugged when not in use, because I actually care about the little things like not wasting energy. Always online simply does not work for me, so no this news just makes me shake me head.

[justingenuity1]

Hopefully the next xbox will be dope...microsoft is still the company who doesnt claim to be the end all be all of the gaming industry, yet are clearly a team of quiet intelligent industry leaders...not that sony is not will be getting both systems but to me microsoft has done more than nintendo and sony combined for the gaming industry considering they really started planning for games for windows back in early 2000's and has been really paying off the last few years if u havnt seen high end pc gaming with a 360 remote its unbelievable. The 360 has been clutch for gamers and developers alike the entire last gen hard to deny that...although some of the new layout for this system snds suspect it is likely that ms will come thru with something great per usual

[Kidmyst]

As long as I can play Single Player games without an internet connection I'll be fine. If my internet ever goes out (sometimes Charter has a hiccup) and it bricks my console, I won't be happy. Other than that I'm fine, I'll wait for more details though.

[Zepherite]

Everyone seems be assuming this has something to do with DRM.

No where in the article does it allude to this.

Lets have a look at some quotes for the article:

'Durango will implement different power states so that it can always be powered on, but will draw minimal electricity when not in use;'

'always on, always connected;'

and

'The console will be ready instantly when users want to play, and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current.'

All these imply, at least to me, is that the system will go into a low power standby state, that downloads and updates games in the background, as well as allowing the system to quickly 'wake up' from the standby state.

It doesn't even say that you 'have' to be connected to play games,although admittedly it doesn't say you can play when disconnected either, but that's kinda my point; people seem to be finding information that isn't there.

If there's something I've missed, feel free to point it out to me.

[contradictory]

i have a bad feeling about this...

[MADGameR]

X Box Durango (like Big Brother!) Always on, always watching you

[stage88]

Thanks Microsoft for further setting in the stone that I will never get an Xbox branded 'games' machine.

[EffectO]

Sounds like Steambox.

If MS gets Steam or even Origin on Durango meltdowns will be glorious.Durango could certainly have PC compatibility mode.
Windows OS + x86 = PC

360 shares lots of games with PC = easy BC,looks better and runs better
Just port Halo to Steam/Origin...done

[kenshiro100]

If this is true, then Microsoft might as well drop out.

[nilamo]

I know these leaks aren't confirmed, but it certainly sounds as something that microsoft wouldn't be scared of implementing considering the direction they've been going these past few years. If it happens to be real, which is very likely, it would be an easy decision for me what to choose as my main console next gen. Very dissapointing, especially after the whole simcity/EA catastrophe.

[Thatlalala]

If/when it's cracked, piracy will be rampant.

[Thefreeman012]

Current Xbox 360 owner, will be making a switch to PS4 I believe. everything I've read so far has rubbed me the wrong way about durango