Backwards Compatibility is Not Having to Pay For Games Again

"There really is something to be said for being a loyal customer and supporting a company through years and years of products, including newer and more expensive ones every few years. " | Explosion.com

[Cupid_Viper_3]

Backwards Compatibility is always supporting your every single one of your consoles for 10 years plus, regardless of the fact that new generation is out.

Backwards compatibility is not being forced to upgrade to a new console just because the next iteration is out.

The PS3 is living proof that people will complain all they want to, but when it really comes down to it, they're not willing to pay up the price for a console that has hardware backwards compatibility. It cost a lot of money to include a PS3 inside a PS4, and most people can't afford that as they to have buy more expensive Ipads, Iphones and the likes.

[Trenta27]

I don't understand. Is it really so hard to put backwards compatibility into a console?

[Ripsta7th]

For the Ps4 yeah because the PS3 had the cell, and the ps4 will have new architecture. Means that they are using different methods to code new games, so BC might be possible but it would require a ps3 cell on the ps4 and that i think its too expensive.

[Caffo01]

yes, the PS4 has different architecture so Sony would have to put the cell and other components in the PS4 in order to make it run PS3 games..

[Ron_Danger]

Is it really so hard for journalists to just wait until official reveals of info instead of writing speculation articles and trying to pass them off as facts?

And this goes for all systems: WiiU, PS4, and whatever Microsoft call their next gen console

[plaZeHD]

Yes it is. PlayStation 4 has a complete different architecture than PlayStation 3, therefor it's hard to put backwards compatibility on the system.
PlayStation 4 = No Cell Processor
PlayStation 3 = Cell Processor

[izumo_lee]

It probably is easy to do so but like all things it is gonna cost you in the price of the system. Sony took it out of the PS3 cause it was one of the reasons for the high price of the system. To lower the cost they had to sacrifice it to stay competive in the market.

This just goes to show that when designing the PS3 Sony did not take into account the ramifications on next gen. Simply put that architecture of the PS3 is too complex & including it in the PS4 would clearly drive the price up significantly.

Yeah they could theoretically add backward compatibility to the PS4 but are many willing to pony up $600 again. Some may think so but it would be a disaster for Sony to do that again & risk even more backlash & lost market share.

If you wanna play PS3 games keep your PS3 for the time being until the Gaikai plan is fully explained & implemented into the PS4. If it is fluid like they hope it will be than i guess that is good.

I would like Sony to use the data from our PSN accounts & see what games we have played. And if that game is available on Gaikai it will a simple download no questions asked or fee needed to be paid. That is my wish Sony would do instead of having to pay for them again.

[Army_of_Darkness]

But I can't afford all that bandwidth?!?! I'm limited to 150GB per month or it's $2 per GB after! shit, I have to jump to another internet provider that offers unlimited bandwidth unlike Rogers!

[caseh]

Lets be honest, with the Cell processor aside they wouldn't include backwards compatability even if they could.

Why have they not re-introduced the BC on the PS3? So they can resell PS2 games via PSN thats why. Costs have come right down on PS3 price to manufacture yet they keep the retail price on each new revision high by adding bigger HDDs...which cost peanuts.

PS3 game will start to crop up in whatever variation of the PSN the PS4 has, i guarantee it and on top of that Gaikai will no doubt have a part in this.

Theres a strange sense of irony here, everyone has been bleating about how the PS4 is long overdue, PS3 is old and way behind the times blah blah. Yet as soon as people find out they cant play ps3 games on ps4 all of a sudden the PS3 becomes relevent again. People need to make their minds up.

[Information Minister]

I understand that PS3 backwards compatibility on the PS4 would be extremely hard to achieve, maybe even impossible, but what about PS1 and PS2 emulation? The new system seems to have more than enough raw processing power and bandwidth to emulate those older predecessors. I would very much prefer to have just one system underneath the TV on my living room.

Besides, Sony can try to sell me games I already own all they want, that's just not going to happen. All they're going to achieve is to piss me off even further when my old consoles brick and I find myself unable to play my classic games.

[The Great Melon]

@ Information Minister

Luckily most with a pc that has been made within the past 5 years can emulate PSone and PS2 games. Without any real network connectivity such as trophies and DLC, the first two generations are safe from forced deprecation and can arguably be considered better on the pc with up-scaling and increased frame-rates.

Emulation of the PS3 won't happen any time soon or ever without some breakthroughs in processor speed or sophisticated coding to split PS3 into fractional chunks across multiple cores. Also even if we were able to run PS3 games, all the updates and DLC will have to be painstakingly assembled before Sony shuts down the servers and we are left with buggy games.

Unfortunately as games become "smarter" or more connected, they begin to be ephemeral experiences or very controlled products from Sony e.g. Gaikai.

[ALLWRONG]

"For the Ps4 yeah because the PS3 had the cell" Different chip designs didn't stop MS from putting BC on the 360. This is just classic Sony wanting to resell you games you already own. Sony is alone in the trend they started. Get ready for Sony to sell (resell) you PS3 "Classics" on the PS4.

[s45gr32]

Really is not that hard is because is better to make money by reselling say game in a remastered edition.

[GrandTheftZamboni]

I don't mind paying small amount ($20 - $40) for a remastered game I like. My concerns is that I won't be able to play PS3 games before they are remastered.

[rainslacker]

Each generation of PS so far has handled BC through added hardware in the system. The PS2 had the PS1 chip on the board. The original PS3 had the emotion engine on the board, but handled PS1 through software.

Every chip in a new PS has been drastically different in architecture from it's predecessor, so it was never a matter of just a scaled up processor(similar to GC to Wii). The cell took this to an extreme, and it's unlikely we'll see full emulation of it for quite some time due to it's complete change from x86 design.

Sony could certainly add the necessary chip to the PS4 design for PS3 BC. However, given the cost involved they aren't doing that, and it's not looking too good for having a "Premium" model that does have that feature built in. Some of those chips may not seem like much to add, however even a few dollars make a big difference on the bottom line when multiplied by tens of millions of units. I'm not sure why at this point PS1/2 BC couldn't be achieved through emulation though, as it's already viable on a lower spec'd home PC. Maybe it is, but no one has asked the question yet, or I missed the answer.

I'm of two minds on this. One I would love the convenience of full BC built in. Two I like that they are focusing on making the system profitable and powerful from the get-go, instead of catering to a minority(albiet a large one) asking for full BC. It's not a deal-breaker for me, but I like to play my older games quite often. Just means my PS3 will get more use after the PS4 launch.

[evilhasitsway]

not hard just it would bring the price up past $600 which people dont want to pay they would just bitch about it that simple. just keep your ps3 or just dont buy the ps4 your choice.

[AngelicIceDiamond]

If somebody could not afford PS4 games I see Gaikai being an alternative to some. Stream newly released PS3 titles and play those for the time being.

It's clear BC is being fazed out due to publishers hate of the idea as well as second hand games. Used or new PS3 games won't work on PS4. Instead Sony wants to make consumers pay for their BC its only buissness.

[caseh]

'Instead Sony wants to make consumers pay for their BC its only buissness.'

Exactly, spot on.

Its a business decision and a clever one, they are in it to make money. Allowing people to play PS3 games straight from the box would be a bad move from their standpoint. Simply because if a game comes out on both PS3 and PS4 then you will obviously buy the PS4 version. Means you want the BC to play games you already own or that can be picked up dirt cheap pre-owned and theres no profit it that approach for Sony.

[evilhasitsway]

its just the fact they bitch about having to pay more for it not that they can or cant afford it i mean its a next gen system to play next gen games keep your ps3 and shut up with the whinning. we all knew it wouldnt have it. so just chill. not saying your bitching im saying other people by the way.

[NYC_Gamer]

You don't have to buy the games over again just keep your old consoles...

[Dno]

omg thank you you are smart!

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

After coming from pc gamer.com and seeing them say killzone was visually unimpressive and now on n4g and console gamers want BC and would complain about price. I have come to find pc and console gamers suck..

[capnjoe217]

Sometimes I wonder if such people enjoy complaining about video games more than actually playing video games.

[wampdog29]

Until it breaks... then what?

[Ron_Danger]

Then I guess you'll have to start playing current gen games and stop living in the past. There's a reason people don't dress like Zac Moris or AC Slater anymore

[Arksine]

What do you do when something breaks? Fix it or replace it.

[rainslacker]

@Ron

Yes, because the only games of worth are new games. I guess it's not possible to want to play all games from over 4 decades of gaming. /s

[Aceman18]

I know I'll be keeping my PS3 when the 4 comes out plain and simple. people complained PS3 was expensive and the only way to cut the cost was to drop B/C. then people still b*tched because they wanted it back now.

if u wanted B/C you should have bought the system and not b*tched about the price.

[clrlite]

No kidding. I just got a ps2 slim for $50 and I love it. I had some games like Persona 3 PES, Okami, and picked up a few more for around $5 each. Great addition to my collection!

[Ripsta7th]

BC is a bonus when a console releases. Look at the 3ds, selling like hotcakes because on top of the new lineup it has a whole library of previous gen games available. I wish the ps4 had BC , but with new games unveiled i dont think ill miss my ps3 as much when i get the ps4. Wnt be selling it though

[Nicaragua]

Yeah and look at the WiiU, thats selling like hot cakes because it has a whole library of previous gen games......oh wait

The 3DS sales have nothing to do with its backwards compatibility

[zebramocha]

@nic Oh no you didn't! :) .

[Ripsta7th]

No. wii u isnt selling because Nintendo screwed up by releasing a weak console when everyone was hyped for the Ps4/720 and where left unimpressed

[InTheZoneAC]

This will be the first playstation I keep once the new one releases.

It was nice to be able to keep any old games and use them on the new system, but I'm not complaining that I can't do it this time around.

[battlegrog]

People dont you remember they said it will stream from gaikai. Simple as that it will work that way.

[aquamala]

gaikai is not going to be free

[wampdog29]

If you own a game on disc, you'll have to repurchase it again to play it on PS4 through Gaikai

[Conzul]

Whoa, we don't know this yet.

[wampdog29]

@Conzul

Put the pieces togather and you'll basically know. PS3 games (digital or retail disc) have already been confirmed to NOT work on PS4. They would LIKE for ALL PS1, PS2 and PS3 games to stream over Gaikai in the future to not only the PS4, but phones, tablets and Vita. Do you think you WON'T have to repurchase? How else will you stream these games??? Free?!?!

[sorceror171]

Okay, fine. They stream the games. I'm dubious, but maybe it'll work well enough.

What I want is, either (a) you go to the PSN store and buy the electronic version, or (b) you put the disc in the drive and that automatically allows you to stream that game, so long as the disc is present.

It's (b) that I really care about. I'm not exactly thrilled about streaming the games, but I don't want to have to pay for the game again. It's not like this is new - Steam let me convert my CD copy of Half-Life to a Steam downloadable version.

[Mikeyy]

What is the alternative though? SONY already tried putting an Emotion Engine and Cell in one box and everybody cried and didn't want to pay $599..

The PS4 could reach $800 if they treid to cram ever previous console in it. It is just getting rediculous on the technological side. Emulation isnt strong enough.

The best alternative is the streaming option. What else is there?

You guys won't pay for an all in one hardware box.

[Conzul]

Not the masses, but Playstation loyals would definitely love Hardware B/C over streaming. Not to mention bandwidth-conscious people who realize that an $800 console will cost them less in the long run than data overage fees.

Sony NEEDS to make an uptier PS4 for just such a group of people. Everyone else can have the Gaikai PS4

*************The Case of Hardware B/C*************
For:
>> Absolutely no need to rebuy legacy games or wait for remakes. A huge, instant library of games.

>> No need to have old consoles hogging precious space on the entertainment centre or having to switch consoles just to play older games

>> Possibly cheaper in the long run for those without unlimited internet plans

>> Gaikai won't rollout everywhere at once. Places with weak internet or none at all still contain people who want to play games of every generation, and are willing to pay for that capability.

Against:
>> The PS4 will be more expensive.
- So what? "Never been first, never been cheapest". Some (and by that I actually mean *many*) are willing to pay a bit more for hardware B/C

[Mikeyy]

Dude, I would pay $1000 for a PS4, im hardcore like you, but the masses wont, im sorry.

Litterly everybody bitched about the $599 price tag on the PS3, even though that was cheap to you a me..

Sony won't let that happen again, they arent giving MS any breaks this time around, Im expecting the price tag to be $400, which is perfect for the masses.

We are the vocal minority. As evident most posters on this website don't even know Gaikai streams PS2 and PS3 games, They are oblivious to even this simple detail.

The damn Ps4 can smelt gold out of thin air and the masses will hate on it if it costs $600

[rainslacker]

Then that begs the question, will we be able to play PS1 physical games in the system? Or PS2 games for that matter? Both are doable through software(PS2 to a lesser extent). What's the purpose of excluding those in favor of the cloud?

It seems most people are understanding of the differences in PS3 architecture which make it impossible to emulate without having dedicated hardware(Cell), but that doesn't explain away PS1/2. That points more towards them wanting to resell the game to the consumer in the guise of BC. In this case, it's not BC, but exactly what the author said in his article.

Also what about all the games that may not be available on the cloud? I mean if you can stream a game you own for free then it's somewhat acceptable, though not ideal, but those games would still have to be available on the server. Are publishers going to allow it when they would prefer to sell a digital copy and double dip via the consumer?

There are too many questions in regards to this now, and I have a boding sense that the answers aren't going to be what everyone is hoping for, or even expecting.

[wampdog29]

I've seen others wonder if placing the disc in the PS4 would allow you to stream it through Gaikai. Personally, I don't see this happening. This would mean that you could trade games back and forth between people. Sony doesn't want this.

[sorceror171]

I can trade games back and forth *now*. I've loaned my brother games and vice versa. If the PS4 is going to allow used games, you'll be able to do that with PS4 games, too.

If having the disc in the drive is good enough for disc-based games, why wouldn't it be good enough for streaming?

[Pillage05]

Just make it to where the disc has to stay in the ps4 while it's streaming to work. It's a great idea, but I can't see this being free of charge.

I would think it'd cost sony a fortune to run the servers and whatever for everyone with a ps3 disc. Lot of questions to answer before the end of the year. It'll be interesting for sure.

[rainslacker]

@Pillage

I said the same thing before. Given the cost to maintain that feature for the long term, it would be cheaper for them to include all the chips since the first PS in every system if they plan to offer free BC.

The only reasonable conclusion from this is that it will have to be paid for in some way, and that is likely through a paid service(possibly PS+). That, to me, is not BC, particularly since it would likely be cheaper, and more convenient, in the long run, to either keep your old system or buy an older system to provide that functionality. You can get a launch PS3 for around $250 right now, and I wouldn't be surprised if the demand for them goes up in a few years due to this.

[Wingsfan24]

I'll be keeping my PS3 either way. After getting rid of my older consoles, I sort of regretted it after a while. Just for nostalgia purposes.

[Seraphemz]

Exactly, my PS3 will be my bluray player.. and for the last PS3 games that come out that I think I want to play.
Probably will be the Last of Us... since Watch Dogs will be on the PS4 and im sure The Last Guardian will be too...

[Mikeyy]

Gaikai sounds great to me. Its a streamed service, which means it's futureproof.

Never again will we have to worry, if the next great console is BC or not..

[Wingsfan24]

Kinda interesting concept actually, with Gaikai, I wonder if we'll even need new consoles after these? I'm sure there will be a PS5 at some point, but idk, with the streaming tech I'm kinda scratching my head.

[blackblades]

Like before ps3 games are made for the ps3 so literally the ps4 doesn't need BC, people that keep complaining over just don't get it.

[EffectO]

It looks like Sony doesn't really get digital distribution.

[ginsunuva]

It looks like some people don't know hardware and software engineering.

[KiLLUMiNATi_89]

Can someone educate me about gaikai and how there service is gonna work exactly ? How they gonna help with BC..

[wampdog29]

You'll be able to stream legacy games to the PS4 through Gaikai/PSN. Either you'll purchase each game separately, or maybe they'll have a subscription-based system (or both).

[landog]

gaikai and all other steaming services are terrible, the lag/latency introduced is very, very bad

what is going to happen, just like last gen, is the big games like killzone 2 and 3, uncharted 2 and 3, gor of war 3 and ascension, lpb etc...etc....will get ps4 hd remasters, they will be in 1080p and have proper anti aliasing and look amazing and maybe even feature some upgraded textures....these will sell for $39.99 at launch, but soon there will bundles for that price, the uncharted ultra hd anthology, native 1080p

of course they want to keep re-selling you the same crap, lol...and im ok with it as long as the upgrades offered are significant, i WILL NEVER give sony a dime to stream a garbage 720p feed of a game i already own with crappy latency and laggy controls....you can keep that trash sony

i have ps3 that can run ps3 games better than any streaming services ever will

[VonBraunschweigg]

Now that they have confirmed the PS4 will allow used games and native BC isn't possible due to differences in architecture, why not make it so that my future PS4 at least can authenticate my PS3 games so I can play them for free from Gaikai, or in case of games on your harddrive, use my PSN/SEN account.

Imo that would be an elegant way to please most people. Loyal fans can still play their games even if their PS3's die and don't feel overcharged and the people who never wanted/had a PS3 but now want to play PS3 games can still buy and play them.

[landog]

won't happen because you could just use your freinds game, a rental game, a co-workers game

there is no way to stop 1 copy of uncharted 3 from authenticating 1000's of ps3s

make no mistake, sony is a business, and while i think they are a very good and fairly honest one, they still sieze every opportunity to turn a dime

gaikai may be free to plus subscribers, which would be ok i suppose, i am just concerned about the high amounts of lag/latency from the millisecond you press the button, till its uploaded to the server, then entered in, then sent back to you

[VonBraunschweigg]

Could still be possible, kinda like with full game installation on 360, so the PS3 disk still needs to be in the PS4 in order to be able to play from the cloud. Why not? I wouldn't even mind if it means my games have to be and can only be registered to my own PS4, because it's better than nothing.

[sorceror171]

Not so long as you have to have the disc in the PS4 in order to play the game. Simple, straightforward.

[MoreRPG]

looks like im gonna have to keep my ps3 after all

[-Falaut-]

Looks like there will be both a PS3 and a PS4 consoles under my living room TV. The horror!

[jek7]

i don't see the problem here. if you want to play your ps3 games just KEEP your PS3.

[Kane22]

lol. people make it seem like they completely forgot they have a ps3. i plan on keeping my ps3 as long as possible. i stupidly sold my ps2 cause of ps3.

[KrisButtar]

thats what i will be doing but then i will wait till after the ps3's life cycle before i get a ps4, instead of preordering my ps4

[KrisButtar]

i would pay up to $200 more for the ps4 to have the ps3 cell processor, so i could play ps3 games on my ps4

[jagstatboy]

I better be able to put my PS3 disc in a PS4 console and play it via Gaikai streaming for free and not have to re-purchase the PS3 games again.

[Sketchy_Galore]

I understand it due to the completely different architecture but it is gonna be annoying having to have both consoles awkwardly stacked on top of each other in my gaming cabinet for a few months until I exhaust my PS3.

[EffectO]

Funny thing is that Nintendo did this thing much much better,in their own clumsy way of course :)

Here is some long forgotten Kaz Hirai quote

"I think you’re doing the consumers and the gamers a huge disservice, when you come out with a new console only to say, it only plays PlayStation 3 games"

....

[Jek_Porkins]

It seems a bit redundant to have to pay for games you've already paid for in the past in order to play them on the new console.
You could say "just keep your old consoles", but if you are a multiple console owner like me, that isn't realistic. I mean are we supposed to keep a PS2, PS3 and PS4 all hooked up? I can understand a PS4 not being able to play PS3 games, but why not PS1/PS2 games? Those weren't Cell, my PSP can emulate those games.

I think this is where Microsoft could one up Sony, if the next Xbox is fully backwards compatible with disks, it's a win for them in my opinion.

I was disappointed with this news yesterday and it hasn't changed overnight.

[Bumpmapping]

So why were you disappointed?Wasn't enough Kinect style games for your taste?I can see why you would be disappointed in there being no BC.... but if Sony would have put that in people would have still been b!tching cause of the increased price.

@Eyetoy been around since the PS2 also they wont be shoving it down our throats like Microsoft... get your Poncho ready for E3 Kinectmals 2.0 should be the highlight of the show.Yes it would have increased the price its why BC was taken out the PS3 slim version to lower the price.

[Jek_Porkins]

Actually they seemed to have their own Kinect type of games, and Move made an appearance, so I'm sure Wonderbook 2 is in the works!

Seriously though, I can understand no BC with the PS3 due to the Cell, but why not PS1/PS2 BC? My PSP can play those games but not the PS4? Seems like a bit of a cash grab by making everything available "On demand".

I seriously doubt implementing some BC would have raised the price significantly.

[cyclindk]

I am willing to "re-purchase" games if the newer version meets my expectations in one or more ways:

1) true to the original (but with perhaps modern implements to the controls, where applicable, and save functions, things like that.

2) visual improvements, if it suits the particular game and doesn't detract from the original experience

3) straight ports are never worth the price to me and I consider them lazy, so laziness equals no sale

[ACEMANWISE]

Like I've been saying for 6 years now, digital as a format is more than protection from a small group of pirates. It is meant to be locked away behind services, far beyond the consumer's reach.

Digital is supposed to be cheaper for them. Yet they don't tell you how much more it costs to maintain servers and computer equipment in order to store your data. It's a daily cost vs. the one time price of physical discs and shipping. They don't want to reduce costs for you. They want to maximize profit for them.

Digital is supposed to be cheaper for you. Yet the price remains high on nearly all digital titles on the store. Not only that but digital won't be cheaper when/if the physical format no longer exists. There will be no competition to entice prices to drop. Instead, digital prices will rise.

Each game will also be tied to a gaming service in order to get access. Because of that subscription prices will rise too...only to be governed by another competing service provider.

At the same time the used format dies, more than doubling the company sales (in their eyes) by not allowing more than one person to gain access to the same copy. Thus reducing the format's competition even further. Prices continue to rise.

It's not for these companies' lack of trying. They really are trying to kill the physical format. They say they can improve games through updates but all they've done is make sure most physical discs are inferior and glitched upon release day. Without updates they are incomplete.

Besides, digital games are not really products to be purchased or owned. We are meant to think they are. If a digital game wasn't governed then it would be considered a competing format against the physical disc. In reality the presence of a service makes them more of a service feature. So, for them to sell digital games as if they were products is highly misleading.