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Should Xbox One Games be Built Without Parity?

The gaming world has been in a state of shock, surprise, and hype since Microsoft showed off a demo of Crackdown 3 at their Gamescom panel last week. In light of Crackdown 3's impressive demonstration, many Xbox One owners are now suggesting that third-party developers ditch parity in their multiplatform games, so as to take full advantage of the Xbox One's Cloud computing technology.

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whoyouwit041134d ago

100% yes,if Sony fan boys can start a no parity movement over res which really has nothing to do with innovating games there should damn well be one for this.

Aloy-Boyfriend1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

I think performance parity is different from this.

If the more powerful console is capable of ruining games better, then there's no reason to put it on par with the less powerful one. See PC for instance, There's not parity with console framerates, and even some games like Dead space 3 got lots of hate for EA putting it on par with consoles for whatever reason.

I say if both consoles have their unique stuff that devs can take advantage of, them they can do it. There's no problem with 3rd parties using different tech to please Xbox/PS4 owners. To use cloud computing on Xbox to do whatever devs want wouldn't bother me as a PS4 owner. I would still enjoy my PS4 version of the game.

And, we/I still don't know much how this cloud computing will work. It might require a high speed internet. Some people just rather enjoy something without having limitations too, not to mention there might be people with crappy Internet or not Internet at all.

At the end of the day, the devs will decide what to do. Will using this tech would mean they have to pay money to Microsuave to use it? How much can this tech really make a 3rdd party game stand out against the other version? Can the PS4 do something at least close to it without using that tech or it can be done yet it would be too hard and time consuming? Too many questions. I don't think PS4 or PC owners would rage about it because the PS4 has no cloud computing to begin with.

rdgneoz31134d ago

"At the end of the day, the devs will decide what to do. Will using this tech would mean they have to pay money to Microsuave to use it?"

If 3rd party devs have to pay any money to use it, they probably won't as many care about saving on costs. Many would rather use their own servers and save costs, than pay one platform to use their servers when they have a game releasing on several platforms.

Also, only the MP part of Crackdown 3 is using the cloud servers, not the single player. That would restrict all the games that want to use it, to being online only games (John Noonan - "We have lots of customers that aren't always-online though!"). As for those that say the option in the menu for it:
John Noonan - "it's too fundamental of a game design change to make it an option. It changes literally everything."

Naga1134d ago

@ rdgneoz3, XiKurapikaKurta

It's old news that Microsoft's cloud servers are free for developers to use.

NinjaNick1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

MS already said it would require 4mbps down internet. That's actually rather slow.

Eonjay1134d ago

Well, I laugh because in reality, Xbox One has not reached parity with PS4 yet... so that should be the first thing they demand.

dcbronco1134d ago

Microsoft needs to do some interviews where Phil just breaks down some of this information. It's out there but people are still missing it.

Using this technology doesn't cost the developers anything during the making of the game. Microsoft offers cloud computing free of charge so that they can focus on other things. I have heard that Microsoft charges a fee to use the service for playing the game. I personally haven't seen that said by anyone from Microsoft though.

On bandwidth requirements. If you have Netflix HD, PSNow or use Share Play, you can use this with no problem. The requirements are 1.5-4mbs. Azure has servers all over the world and they are usually directly connected from what I understand. Microsoft has gone beyond just building data centers, they have laid underwater cables to make data center connections on their own. Or I should say hired someone to. So connections should be fast and uncongested.

Will developers use it? That is the question. They should. They have talked for years about wishing they had the power to do so much more. Here it is. Are you actually more creative than exploding barrels? Personally I believe Microsoft should use some of the money saved on third party deals for more dynamic content on more games. Early DLC can't trump thousands of zombies, intelligent zombies on CoD. Or a massive attack on Whiterun in Skyrim.

I think any of the big time developers can't wait to get their hands on this type of power. Can Sony do it too? No. Share Play and Now have lag and they don't approach the amount of information this tech is pushing. And they require more bandwidth. 5mb or more on each. So there is a lot more to this than a bunch of servers.

Benchm4rk1134d ago

@Eonjay

Pretty sure they are not talking about performance parity like resolution or frame rate.

4Sh0w1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

I've played some great 900p multiplat games on my X1 vs buying a ps4 for the 1080p without blinking twice, if the gameplay is good, the graphics are good 1080p would of been nice but once the game boots up its really a non-issue for most gamers.

While I'm sure Xbox fans like myself either thought the devs didn't optimize for esram on Xbox or simply didn't think the res made much difference, either way in all this time I've NEVER ever heard a Xbox fan hope that devs lower the resolution on ps4 for the sake of parity, I'd actually like to see one example of an Xbox fan hoping for parity in respect to ps4 version being held back.

-Now I would hope no ps4 fan would be against any dev accepting an invitation to *FREEly use Microsoft cloud service to make the online MP of the X1 version of a new game powered by Microsofts cloud network.

BitbyDeath1134d ago

Cloud is getting blown way out of proportion, it is CPU bound, it won't allow games to be magically 1080p/60fps or anything of the like.

Kleptic1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

Dcbronco...what?

'using' cloud services 'doesn't cost other devs anything'?...and its free of charge?...or is it part of the licensing fees you pay MS to publish a game on XBO, use XBL, etc...?

I work in cloud security, and i promise...none of it is 'free'...even if MS allows developers and publishers to utilize the infrastructure without an ADDITIONAL fee...the cloud computing doesn't just make itself...

you make it sound like MS just says 'here you go'...and any dev automatically gets 5x the physics processing plopped into whatever game they're making...that crackdown 3 stuff is custom tailored for that game to a fundamental processing degree; the game won't work without it (for multiplayer, anyway)...its not some kind of magic middleware that any dev can just run a script of 'run_useazurenow.exe', and thats it...

I agree with the rest of what you said...its up to developers to utilize it, and its up to publishers to pay for it (the development time AND whatever MS has wrapped up in that licensing agreement)...while developers would love to go nuts with options like this, publishers almost always hate it...because its unproven, and not something shared between all platforms (i.e. kinect, move, etc.)...its too much risk, and if publishers are anything in this era of gaming...its as risk free as possible...

I'll be the first to admit; this is ground breaking stuff if it takes off...and its the first sign of hope i've seen in terms of a gaming situation strangled by hugely underpowered systems...and the technical side of software floundering in a state of limbo because of it...While i still have zero hope that it'll improve the graphical rendering side of things (improvements to fill rates, raw gpu performance, etc. are not something cloud computing can fix, and those remain the biggest issue of both consoles)...its at least a step in the right direction towards making what will soon be outperformed by media streaming devices and battery powered smart phones...relevant...

Kingthrash3601134d ago

Dear god.
Let crackdown down come out. Let's see how this whole cloud thing works. People are just moving too fast. Anything that depends on online stability is just not something you want to bet on.
But let's say this is an success. ..There is absolutely nothing stopping sony from doing the same tech. This isn't a MS owned thing.
Secondly this is a business. ..and i seriously doubt they would make a non exclusive game that can't be done on the more popular larger user based ps4.
Lol I do hope it works great though. But we are seriously getting ahead of ourselves here.

XBLSkull1134d ago

You only need to look at a game like Battlefield. If that game used the cloud for Crackdown-esque destruction, it would likely be a lot better version of the game compared to versions that didn't use it. We can only hope this happens. Offloading some of this stuff to the cloud also frees up resources locally and allow you to do more with the hardware of the console itself. It's a win-win situation, just needs to be taken advantage of. And as we can see with Crackdown, when you do take advantage of it, it's a game changer, stuff that's never been done before.

UnHoly_One1134d ago

Kingthrash.....

"Anything that depends on online stability is just not something you want to bet on."

Tell that to Blizzard in regards to WoW. Or more recently, Bungie with Destiny.

"There is absolutely nothing stopping sony from doing the same tech."

Correct. Except for the money, servers, know-how, and technology behind it. Other than that they are practically ready to release it now.

Kleptic1134d ago

^absolutely can't argue with that...

Azure was a gamble in that regard...and unlike Sony's acquisition of gaikai, azure is beginning to appear like something tangible for XBO owners...

As someone that doesn't own either console, and has no immediate plans to do so...I definitely find all this fascinating...its like a reverse of last gen...Sony fumbled initially with the PS3, and fought back very hard...Sony almost walked away with this gen, but MS definitely has a lit furnace...

at least the next year or so will be a lot more interesting than this generation has been so far...

donthate1134d ago

KingTrash:

"Anything that depends on online stability is just not something you want to bet on."

I'm sure it will have some problems, like any online game and you will be right in here complaining with the naysayers.

It will be fixed and I will be in pure destruction nirvana.

Besides what do you think multiplayer games are powered with?

If Sony can rely on PS Now, WoW can keep their game up and running, and Sony can actually fix DriveClub, then I'm sure MS with Azure can fix any issues that crop up with Crackdown 3.

You can be the naysayer, and I can enjoy this game! :D

4Sh0w1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

@Kingthrash360

-I do think we have to be realistic with our expectations about WHAT/HOW devs might used the cloud or IF many will even bother at all given the extra expense of game development(maybe Micro might help with that too, lol you never know).....however we are just discussing some interesting game concepts/ideas & parity, etc all the type of subjects that frankly havent been off limits subjects before; so I why does it seem to annoy you so much now?

Crackdown3 IS unproven in the sense that it was a live demo of what possible but all 1st attempts to implement new tech start off this way(tons of speculation included) and as such its a worthwhile discussion for fans and for anyone interested, thats all.

candystop1134d ago

I will be the first to guess the next game
which will be created from the ground up strictly for online play in the cloud! That game is Phantom Dust!

Kingthrash3601134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

Wait...how am I a nay sayer?
I clearly said I hope it works...i own a xbox so anything new helps.. but man why do you guys let hype blind you day after day.
Look at how deception for hype has been the basis for selling games..look at how they showed kinect when it first was announced. ..look at games like watchdogs and killzone. Look at AC unity...look at forza 5 ...ryse...the division. ..why are we not waiting to see? Why am I a nay sayer when I'm just saying we are making the same mistakes over and over again...like we never learn. But when we see downgrades or broken glitchy final product we complain. Smdh wake up! I don't care about the war bs or trying to put a system down when I already bought the thing...u want it to succeed! !! I want anything gaming to succeed. ..but when I see new tech or non live gameplay demos I wait and see before I judge. So when I say it's too soon to talk parity...i mean we haven't seen this in full stress action. It's Unproven. So to speak on it like it's gunna change gaming before it's been tested is just a jump too far. Show me how big the level will be...show me how many people we have and show me if the cloud will make the mp a smooth experience. And most of all show me how fun it will make a game. Because I want to see just how far it can go...what limitations it has and if it's even worth putting in a game to begin with. The ps3 was a difficult system to make games for...If the cloud implemented in a game make them harder to make or more costly..well then parity isn't even a subject...devs will just skip it and make more money by building a game with the ps4 in mind...skipping the cloud feature entirely just like the kinect ...gosh wake up and stop running in circles.

abstractel1134d ago

So what if developers use cloud computing. What will I do in 10-15 years I want to go back and revisit the game like I do these days with PS1/PS2 games? Think Azure will still be on and sucking money from MS?

That's why it's MP only in Crackdown. People are getting way too excited about the Crackdown demo, and time will really tell the reality of the situation. Devs will come forward and tell you why they can't.

On top of that, budgets don't allow for two game designs. If the physics add nothing to the game and is just eye candy, then that's fine, I agree use cloud compute, but there's no realistic way it can affect SP games on a fundamental gameplay level.

mwjw6961133d ago

@thunderbear

"So what if developers use cloud computing. What will I do in 10-15 years I want to go back and revisit the game like I do these days with PS1/PS2 games? Think Azure will still be on and sucking money from MS?"

So multiplayer servers that are dead and empty are you biggest worry? LOL Ok well that's an easy fix for that already. Crackdown will have toned down destruction on a much smaller scale in the offline single player. Problem solved.

"That's why it's MP only in Crackdown. People are getting way too excited about the Crackdown demo, and time will really tell the reality of the situation. Devs will come forward and tell you why they can't."

Right cause gamers would not cream their collective panties for this in Battlefield, or COD. I am also glad that you can read the mind of the developers before they can test it out for themselves.

"On top of that, budgets don't allow for two game designs. If the physics add nothing to the game and is just eye candy, then that's fine, I agree use cloud compute, but there's no realistic way it can affect SP games on a fundamental gameplay level."

Wait so you think they need two design teams to test and run cloud based CPU physics? HAHAHA Also CPU based lighting, AI, and a couple other things can be easily offloaded to vastly improve not only the size of the world, but draw distance, amount of AI on screen, AI complexity, and load times. Also Half Life says hello, and they are the grandfather of physics based puzzles.

Your negativity, and lack of understanding is almost disturbing. I get it you have no faith in the idea and that's fine. but I truly don't think you even have a basic idea of how it works or the industry that uses it. Sorry.

+ Show (16) more repliesLast reply 1133d ago
frostypants1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

All this over a single game leveraging cloud capabilities this way that hasn't even come out yet, and that may be the only one of its kind this gen even if it works. C'mon, this is a troll crap article.

No, devs who are too lazy to even take advantage of the relatively easy-to-leverage PS4 hardware advantage (however slim) aren't going to bust their butts and spend millions to develop special cloud-distributed processing versions of their games. Be realistic. Disagree all you want but you can't deny it.

SonofGod1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

Doesn't have to be destruction you know. It could be for example as simple as having more pedestrians in GTA , by letting the cloud handle the AI. Like they're doing in Halo 5 Warzone.

GameBoyColor1134d ago

@SonofGod, thats exactly an example of something devs probably don't want to spend time/money on. You say its simple but making that happen most likely isn't.

SonofGod1134d ago

LOL adding more AI is not difficult for them at all. Even players can change city density in GTA V on PC by tweeking a XML file. It doesn't take much effort to do this for a big developer studio as Rockstar.

It's really weird that not a single third party developer have decided to use Azure cloud for their games. Especially when it's free. Wouldn't surprise me if Sony is forcing parity.

UnHoly_One1133d ago

I'm really sick of everyone calling developers "lazy".

Any time a feature is cut or something doesn't work the way you think it should, the default reason is because of laziness.

It's ridiculous to really believe that.

It just shows how little knowledge of game development you actually have.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1133d ago
Haru1134d ago

No thanks I don't want to have to connect to the internet everytime I want to play a game just for better psychis and AI, Cloud can stay on xbox since xbox gamers seem to love the alway online idea but we playstation players want to be able to play offline not only online

SonofGod1134d ago

The irony when Sony has marketing rights for Destiny. An always-online game.

aconnellan1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

Funnily enough, nobody mentioned using it for Single Player - not Microsoft, not the article.

If you play multiplayer, there is literally no downside as far as I can see, because you're already playing multiplayer online - may as well throw the cloud capabilities into it (into multiplayer, that is)

Yetter1134d ago

but PSNow is incredible! right?

parentsbasement1134d ago

"No thanks I don't want to have to connect to the internet everytime I want to play a game"
just how hard is it for you to connect to the internet ? you have to climb a pole with a cresent wrench or something ? if so , your doing it wrong....

DLConspiracy1134d ago

Nobody is suggesting that you will no longer have a choice in which games you can play... Nobody is going to force you to always be online if (hypothetically) a platform adopts some cloud based additions.

There are two types of games. Online and offline. You get to choose what you want to play. The same way it's always been. Always Online got dumped 3 years ago.

4Sh0w1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

Haru
"No thanks I don't want to have to connect to the internet everytime I want to play a game just for better psychis and AI"

-This is the PERFECT EXAMPLE of how a new vision can be held back due to irrational fear, total misinformation or just plain bias.

-This guy basically just said I dont want to go online just to play a game that has an online multiplayer.

-I mean sure the underlying tech is very complicated but Crackdown3 dev Dave Jones has been explaining in very simple terms of how this cloud tech is being used and that its ONLY for MP, its been quite a HOT TOPIC of discussion across every major gaming site and of course all over n4g, yet read Haru's comment again and tell me how someone can decide to make such an statement on a Crackdown3 thread that basically suggest he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about....then go back to early 2013 and think about how hard it was to express this vision to such close minded gamers before even the console itself was out not to mention having no Crackdown 3 demo.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 1134d ago
KiwiViper851134d ago

I think this should be reserved for Xbox Exclusives only.

remixx1161134d ago

Honestly I agree......do I want devs to create xb1 versions of 3rd party games with the cloud, yes, hell yesssss.

But will they........no not at all.

I highly doubt any Dev would put more time and money into the version of a game on the console with half the potential profit of the other console.

I would love to play fallout 4 where firing off a mini nuke actually decemated the area of impact in real time and buildings fell while intelligent AI react accordingly.

But it will not happen, the azure servers may be free for third parties to use but the extra cost of the projects will not be free.

Now what MS should do is fund the extra cost of projects for certain multiplatform games, that would be great, instead of dishing out dough for exclusive missions or early dlc how about giving players a real incentive to pick up the Xbox one version, and it wouldn't be foul play against ps4 owners because this would be something only Xbox can do so honestly your not taking anything from ps4.

Give ps4 owners their higher resolution and framerate, give Xbox one owners their cloud based destruction, AI or any other random things devs can drum up with this fancy cloud sauce.

.......I don't care about 1 month early dlc or an exclusive piece of gear.......that doesn't influence my decision of which version of the game I purchase.......now some fancy cloud stuff, that would definitely influence my decision.

lvl_headed_gmr1134d ago

I Disagree.

Offloading things like Physics and AI could free up resources within the hardware which could allow parity between consoles for things like Resolution and Framerates.

It doesn't come at a cost to devs to use.

I think eve4y 3rd party dev should be using MS cloud for parity reasons at the very least.

Devs have been very hypocritical when it comes to talking parity. On one hand they say they want the same experience on both platforms, then on another hand they say they cater to the strenghts of both consoles...yet all 3rd parties are still using P2P servers rather than use MS dedicated servers.

I would like to see 3rd parties utilize MS Azure more now that MS has shown it's cloud based computing.

Sweep141133d ago

@lvl_headed_gmr : IIRC Physics and AI are tasks done on CPU. So Freeing Xbox's CPU by doing physics and AI on the cloud (with more latency btw) will not miraculously give XBox GPU less work to do...

mwjw6961133d ago

@Sweep14

Overhead cost to the CPU is overhead cost non the less. If you can free up CPU then do it. A good Dev team will always find things to use the resources on and improve the game.

If you have that low level of understanding I don't think you should have even commented with your troll comment in the first place.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1133d ago
CaptainObvious8781134d ago

Fans, you mean sony fans. Expecting a better performing game on a more powerful console is just basic logic.

But there were plenty of MS fanboys telling those sony fans to shut up, calling them fanboys for wanting what they paid for.

Do you see how pathetically ironic it is that your doing the exact same thing you were accusing sony fans of doing back then?

Perhaps I should tell you what people like you told me. Perhaps I should call you a fanboy for expecting devs to build games with out parity.

2 wrongs don't make a right though, so I'll take the high road.

1134d ago
Jayszen1134d ago

whoyouwit04 - Wow, such vehemance even though most PS4 fans have said nothing negative about Xbox or this new found destructive ability through 'the cloud' which I might add is still untested in the real world. Hey good for you if your console can now suddenly have 'total destruction' in all your games - for all the good that will do in making a game fun and unique.

Most of us PS4 owners are happy playing with our consoles as is, knowing that if there is no internet, some of us will still be able to get our thrills by gaming offline.

It is as though Xbone fans think they have finally found the one thing with which their console can beat the PS4 and now everything and everyone must now focus on this one thing! Most of us PS4 fans do not begrudge your new found strength - more power to you. If anything this will make Sony innovate even more!

Dynasty20211134d ago

The engine dictates what game can be created, what features can be added, how many NPCs are on the screen etc.

The engine is coded with the hardware in mind.

So yes, hardware, AND THEREFORE RESOLUTION, damn well affects what kind of games are created.

As a result, limited, lacklustre hardware means devs can only do so much with an engine, and therefore a game, whilst trying to get 30 FPS.

So yes, consoles are ruining gaming by limiting what developers can do.

Lennoxb631134d ago

"So yes, consoles are ruining gaming by limiting what developers can do."

You do realize that without consoles there would be no gaming industry/community right?

Genuine-User1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

I can't believe the shi* I'm reading on this page. Ignorance, arrogance, stupidity and obsessive behaviour is everywhere. Just look at the top comment; the person thinks that developers should use cloud compute to offload destruction physics regardless of their game design lol.

If people think third-party pubs are dumb enough to develop their games around cloud compute physics without supporting and providing Playstation gamers with the same capabilities, then I must kindly ask you to reconsider your inept thought process.

PS4 hardware is significantly better than that of an Xbox One.

Cloud Compute destruction is theoretically better than any middleware solution.

Antwan3k1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

And yet, you've still failed to address the question at hand: Should 3rd party developers not implement Xbox Cloud tech in multiplatform games purely for the sake of parity?.

The question of whether or not "pubs are dumb enough" to do this is an entirely different conversation..

And as a side note, I'd wager that Microsoft would market this as a "Windows 10" feature. Meaning that a 3rd party pub would use Xbox Cloud tech for Xbox One AND PC versions of the game.. this way, they can reach a higher install base of gamers and still showcase the advantages of Xbox One versus PS4..

Genuine-User1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

Are you asking me if a third-party pub should fund cloud compute destruction physics for a console that's almost 13 million behind in sales, is infact inferior in design and hardware, is yet to prove Cloud Compute real-world reliability; my answer would be a resounding no.

Even if Microsoft wagers it as a Windows 10 feature (which they probably won't, cause money), who's to say that either third party pubs or Sony won't partner with Amazon/Google.

And as far as I'm aware, not many pubs/devs have come out in support of/and praising what was shown. That's not to say the tech isn't revolutionary; it is, it's just not viable or feasible at the moment, and it would require a massive shift in developing an online game.

Number_91134d ago

I've yet to hear a dev say that it is significantly better. But hey, this guy on N4G said it so...

Antwan3k1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

No, I'm asking you to directly address the title of the article:

"Should Xbox One games be built without parity?"

That question already works under the assumption that Xbox Cloud compute works, the developer has the resources to implement Xbox Compute, and the only reason the developers WOULDNT use Xbox Cloud would be for the sake of parity with the PS4 version..

All other considerations concerning install base, hardware specs, and etc are irrelevant in this case and can be reserved for another discussion..

Also, for sidenotes:

* Phil and company are working extremely hard to blur the lines between "Xbox One" and "PC".. They would definitely work towards marketing this as a "Windows 10" feature for exact reasons you mentioned.. Higher combined install base, larger reach, more sales.. they want "Windows 10" to succeed and as such the Xbox One will benefit. I would predict that if/when 3rd parties just on board with Xbox Cloud, it will be primarily for Xbox One/PC versions of multiplats..

* lol @ your insistence that using Xbox Cloud compute is too much of a financial burden and too risky for 3rd parties to consider but you think Sony (a company with well documented financial problems) will just walk into Amazon or Google, strike up a partnership and magically circumvent the $30 billion and years upon years of R&D that Microsoft has already invested in Azure and Xbox Cloud?.. sure, buddy.. sure.. Crackdown is releasing in 2016 and logically, all Microsoft 1st party games from here on out will utilize Xbox Cloud in some fashion. And that's at a minimum.. 3rd parties may actually get on board as well.. Now, when exactly do you predict Sony will have their first "cloud powered" game on store shelves for the PS4?.. shouldn't be long right? Since it's so easy to just walk into to Amazon and shortcut everything Microsoft has done. When should we be seeing these PS4 Cloud powered games?

Genuine-User1133d ago (Edited 1133d ago )

@Antwan3k

I'll reply to all your questions/comments and remarks once I'm back later tonight. Pile up even more questions if you want.

There's a lot of red herring and argument from authority in your post.

Antwan3k1133d ago (Edited 1133d ago )

@Genuine-User

Sure no problem. I'm not quite sure why there has to be a longer explanation later tonight though. It's really a simple question of whether or not you support "parity for parity's sake"..

to clarify: Do you support the idea of PS4 games being developed to the full extent of the PS4 system and its network features, regardless of the limitations of other platforms?

If the answer is "yes", then logically that means you also support the idea of Xbox One games being developed to the full extent of the Xbox One system and its network features, regardless of the limitations of other platforms..

We are NOT discussing tangent factors here. We are NOT discussing install bases, sales figures, potential resources, risk vs reward, or any other real world factors that obviously affect these kinds of decisions..

We ARE discussing whether or not Xbox One games should be built without parity?. Period..

If you want to have a sidebar about any of those other factors, fine. But give a simple "yes" or "no" to that original question first.. And honestly, I would agree: I DO NOT foresee 3rd parties utilizing Xbox Cloud in many of their multiplatform games for the exact same reasons you have already cited. I think this will be mostly used by Microsoft 1st party studios and 3rd parties will keep parity with their PS4 versions for various financial, PR, and resource reasons/constraints.. Fanboys arguing about a few extra pixels in terms of 1080p native vs 1080p upscaled is one thing.. But if the next Battlefield game was to have 100% destructible environments with persistent debris ONLY on Xbox One (and probably Win10 PC),that would be an astronomically huge deal from both a visual and gameplay standpoint. And that said, the potential outrage/backlash that EA would endure from Sony and PS4 fans would be just as astronomical.. online petitions and boycotts would only be the tip of the iceberg..

But the question remains: would that backlash (whether small or large) be justified?.. Should EA get backlash from PS4 fans for including 100% destructible environments only on the Xbox One version when that's simply an added benefit of Microsoft's and Xbox Live's infrastructure?.. THAT is the question.. "yes" or "no"?..

Genuine-User1133d ago (Edited 1133d ago )

If the question already works under the assumption that Cloud Compute for destructible environment works and the developer has the resources to implement it without sacrificing their original game design; than it should most definitely be built without parity.

But, as I have said before and as you have already acknowledged – Xbox One is almost 13 million behind in sales; which will likely grow, it’s in fact inferior in design and hardware, and Microsoft has yet to prove the reliability of Cloud Compute for destructible environments beyond closed-door presentations.

All that I have said is most definitely relevant to topic at hand. I don’t beat around the bush with theoretical gains – I am not one for informal syllogism.

Why would you predict that if/when Third-Parties jump on board with Cloud Compute, it will be primarily for Xbox One/PC versions of multiplats? Do you believe Microsoft Azure is the only platform that can achieve Cloud Compute, if so, why?

I knew you would pick-up on my feasible/viable remark. It’s already a risk to create new or existing IP's with AAA budgets. For pubs to fund games that will eventually require a number of global servers, without considerable financial gains, this is simply not possible.

If however, Cloud Compute does take off and becomes relatively successful, I would say it would be safe to assume that Sony will partner with either Microsoft or Amazon/Google. Microsoft Azure is not built for/ or confined to Xbox One. It is an open, flexible, enterprise-grade cloud computing platform.

How do you know if every single first party title will utilize Cloud Compute from here on in?

Microsoft is working with Cloudgine on Crackdown 3 for rendering and processing power. Cloudgine can and most probably will work with other pubs, including Sony if needs be. They’re an independent Scottish software technology provider, based in Edinburgh.

http://www.cloudgine.com/pr...

If this takes off, expect to see PS4’s Cloud powered game very soon.

I'll answer your second post later tonight.

Antwan3k1133d ago (Edited 1133d ago )

well, i'm glad to see that you agree that Xbox One games should not be built with parity in mind..

To address you other statements:

1) I predict that 3rd party devs will get on board with Xbox One/PC mulitplats for "cloud powered" online gaming because (between the two) Microsoft is the only one who's made the claim about "the power of cloud" (they've been saying this stuff was possible since launch), they are the only one showing a game running with this particular application of the tech, and they are the only console maker who OWNS that level of infrastructure in-house.. Clearly, they have done a TON of work, invested BILLIONS of dollars, and are using IN-HOUSE assets. If you think Sony is going to match that "very soon", you just lost all credibility sir.. They don't have the infrastructure, resources, planning, and quite frankly the money, to just start on something like this in 2016 and have games on store shelves in 2017.. The other problem is long-term investment. The Xbox One (and we can assume, Win10 PC) will have cloud powered gaming for the life of the console and on into the next console. That's something that 3rd party devs can count on.. You speak of Sony partnerships and you again don't use the same level of scrutiny in asking questions like "how long would these partnerships last?", "How much would that cost to keep going?", "What happens if one party becomes unhappy with the arrangements?", "What happens if Amazon wants to opt out and Sony has to switch to Google?", "will it be free to develop with like Xbox Cloud?". NONE of these questions are being asked by you. You're just saying "They'll partner up with somebody" and magically they'll match Microsoft's offerings?.. please.. Heck, if you were a 3rd party dev, you'd pick Microsoft..

2) Microsoft is offering Xbox Cloud for FREE.. This has already been said on multiple occasions. 3rd party publishers don't have to pay anything to use this tech to develop games. People like to forget that Titanfall has already used Xbox Cloud for their AI computations. So these continued arrangements are very likely.

3). The "Xbox Cloud" service is apart of Microsoft Azure. Azure is approximately 800,000 servers and 300,000 of those are dedicated to Xbox Live.. I'm not a software engineer at Microsoft and I would assume that you aren't either.. but I can take a guess at the idea that having 300,000 servers dedicated to just GAMING is infinitely better and largely different than just renting a host of servers from Amazon or Google. AGAIN, Sony isn't going to be able to walk into Amazon and simply "strike up a deal" for this kind of performance. At BEST, they'll cobble something together in order to try eliminate a bullet-point from Microsoft's portfolio, but me and you both know that it won't be "equal" to Xbox Cloud. For example, did online multiplayer exist on the PS2?. Yes.. Was it "equal" to what Microsoft was offering with Xbox Live?. Nope. Not by a long shot.. And that's about the level of comparison you'll be able to draw from whatever Sony may eventually offer terms of cloud processing this gen..

4). I don't know for a fact that every Microsoft 1st party title will use Xbox Cloud but it is definitely a safe assumption. Forza already uses it for Drivatar AI, Halo 5 is using it for the AI in their Warzone mode (similar to Titanfall's AI), Gears of War could use it for destructibility, Fable could use it for a persistent world and smart AI for NPCs, and the list goes on. I can tell you that the chances of that happening are infinitely greater than the chances of Sony implementing similar levels of cloud tech for their 1st party games..

Genuine-User1133d ago (Edited 1133d ago )

I don’t support parity. Developing a game to the full extent of both systems and creating its multiplayer portion around Cloud Compute for a ‘single’ platform/and or PC is in fact disparate.

I support the idea of PS4 games being developed to the full extent of its tangible hardware. ‘Theoretical’ extensions are not a necessity, in my opinion.

I am discussing practical factors, my conversation is not based on what you feel or believe to be the case.

You should also foresee that third-parties might not have a zilch of interest for Cloud tech in regards to their vision. Not everything is as black or white as you might be led to believe. Downplaying the significant difference in resolution is quite honestly pathetic, you sound like a reasonable person, don’t go down that road; otherwise you’ll lose all your credibility.

The rest of your post is full assumptions and unreasonable predications about online petitions and boycotts lol. I don’t really want to get into such drivel.

I’ll answer your third post later tonight.

Genuine-User1133d ago (Edited 1133d ago )

As I have said before, I do not support parity when it comes to creating games for different platforms.

1. Your first point contradicts your earlier statement. You said “And honestly, I would agree: I DO NOT foresee 3rd parties utilizing Xbox Cloud in many of their multiplatform games for the exact same reasons you have already cited. I think this will be mostly used by Microsoft 1st party studios and 3rd parties will keep parity with their PS4 versions for various financial, PR, and resource reasons/constraints”.

Microsoft is not the only one who’s made the claim about “power of the cloud”. For example: Real Racing 3 showcased something very similar to Drivatars back in September 2012 - http://www.youtube.com/watc...

However, Microsoft is the only one showing a game built around offloading destruction physics to the Cloud. But as I have already mentioned; it was a combined effort, Cloudgine are providing tools for rendering and processing power from the Cloud.

Can you elaborate your assumption on the ton of work Microsoft has done, and what have they invested Billions of dollars in, and what are they using in-house assets for?

I was very concise when I stated my assumption about Cloud Compute destruction physics. If it does take off and becomes relatively successful and or viable, it would be safe to assume that Sony will jump on board and partner with like-minded companies. Sony is as much a Software company, as they are for Hardware. They have some of the most talented people working in their world-wide PlayStation-centric studios, who’s to say they won’t make a destructible playground of their own?

Could you prove that Sony does not have the infrastructure (does it require 300,000 servers to offload physics on a global scale lol), resources, planning, and quite frankly the money to create and provide a game which offloads physics in the Cloud?

You seem to forget that Sony is already using the Cloud for PlaystationNow and Shareplay.

We’re moving towards an ever growing connected world – the same level of scrutiny should apply to Sony but let us not forget that Sony will do their utmost to hold its market share in the home-console sphere.

Business partnerships have contractual agreements. Those questions are irrelevant to the subject at hand. And I’m not saying Sony will magically match Microsoft Cloud Compute tech, I’m saying it’s in the realm of possibility for Sony to engage with similar cloud compute platforms to build their version of “Crackdown” esque destruction.

2. Not a question and I agree.

3. Do you actually believe that 300,000 servers are dedicated to just Xbox? How naive of you. Hope you’re not under the impression that it takes that many servers to build a game around offloading physics to the Cloud.

I have not once said that it is as simple as Sony walking into Amazon and simply striking a deal. I don’t know why you’re so fixated with such suppositions.

4. “I can tell you that the chances of that happening are infinitely greater than the chances of Sony implementing similar levels of cloud tech for their 1st party games.”

Hyperbole at its finest

+ Show (7) more repliesLast reply 1133d ago
alabtrosMyster1134d ago

I don't think you understand parity...

let's say you have some piece of software that you want to have on two different platforms, one with almost twice as many users and close to 50% more processing power than the other... it's normal that those on the more powerful hardware expect higher reslution/framerate (or a combination of both).

Cloud processing requires: 1 to be willing to pay monthly processing and storage bills once the game is released.
2 - to be willing to recode some part of your game completely to take advantage of this infrastructure and sacrifice a good portion of the potential buyers (that cannot be given away for free on a 60$ game, not forever anyway).

Now I have zero issue with games doing this like crackdown 3 does, online MP requires an internet connection to begin with (however they obviously did some sacrifices as for now they allow only 4 players per map as of now and the game looks otherwise hugly it runs at 30fps).

And this is not as if MS were the owners of the only cloud compute service out there, they're the only ones actively pushing for their console to use it that way, in part because they sell Azure, a portion of me think they would not mind renting it to anyone who wants to run a game on it, on any platform, as long as they pay the processing fees... this way they would stand to "win" no matter what console you own!

And you the gamer? Well if you are a console multiplayer kind of guy, you only stand to benefit from this as this will truly allow for interesting stuff... for SP, I honeatly think this could be sad as games will not work anymore when the publishers/platform owners turn off the switch for a specific title (it already happens a lof for the MP portion of the games, so this is not a minus for these games)... but if you think this will remain an MS exclusive feature if it allows for some really game changing features, you are wrong!

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 1133d ago
KionicWarlord2221134d ago

As i told some xbox fans today go to twitter and hit up these developers.

We need as many people on board as possible. These devs need to know we want more for xbox one.

We want to see stuff like physx that would destroy a console but would work perfectly fine with xbox compute.

Imagine batman with more detailed destruction with the batmobile or even Witcher 3`s physx like features.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/1...

#XboxCompute

turdburgler10801134d ago

We shouldn't allow the ps4 to hold back the x1 over cloud.

#cutthedeadweight

snoopgg1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

Crackdown 3 graphics really aren't anything to farkin brag about. The ps4 won't hold it back, the graphics will. It had nice demo, but the graphics didn't blow me away, they were pretty bland in my opinion.

SonofGod1134d ago

@snoop

First of all, this has nothing to do with graphics or resolution. Second, Crackdown 3 is in prototype stage, it's not even in alpha yet. The game is a long way from release and a lot of things will change during development.

I thought this was common knowledge.

turdburgler10801134d ago

@snooping

This is about leveraging the power of the cloud to do more cpu bound tasks. It's not about graphics. Read the article before jumping in to comment.

#cutthedeadweight

maniacmayhem1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

@Snoopgg

You have to realize it was a Pre-Alpha stage right? You even use the term demo in your comment.

Also, here we have tech that is pushing gameplay forward and once again all some of us care about is how good the graphics are.

It's no wonder some devs are putting in the bare minimum when it comes to gameplay and design when all a lot care about is how shiny everything looks.

CaptainObvious8781134d ago

"We shouldn't allow the ps4 to hold back the x1 over cloud."

I bet that's what you were saying about the PS4 about resolution, right? Right?

Or were you calling them fanboys for expecting a better game on a more powerful console?

Chaosdreams1134d ago

1 demo and everyone loses their minds.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 1134d ago
Unreal011134d ago

@kionic

Do you think developers are stupid? Why would they do that when sales of their game on Xbox One are likely to be piss poor anyway? Why pump more money and resources into it? Lol, have some sense boy.

Chug1134d ago

Lol, are you serious? Serioius question. If crackdown had been shown without MS shouting about clouds, would anyone have really noticed?

mhunterjr1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

I certainly would have noticed that the destruction was leaps and bounds beyond anything we've ever seen, from a technical standpoint...

I would have accused them of demoing the game on some ridiculously powerful, impossibly expense gaming rig, and not on an xb1.

In fact, there are tons of those allegations still going around now...

So yeah, people would have noticed...

Chug1134d ago

Hmm. Maybe I should go watch the trailer again, but I really don't know if it was leaps and bounds beyond anything we've ever seen. It did look impressive though.

SilentNegotiator1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

Leaps and bounds? Play Red Faction Guerrilla. Crackdown is just on a bigger scale, as should be expected on a newer generation.

mhunterjr1134d ago (Edited 1134d ago )

@silentnegotiator

I've played and completed Red Faction Guerrilla... Yeah, the scale of crackdown is again, leaps and bounds above what RFG was able to pull off... And the leap in processing demand is quite obviously far greater than what the improvement in console hardware could achieve on its own...