Which? Convo: With the recent launch of the Xbox One, gamers (including me) are crying foul of Microsoft’s alienation of Xbox 360 owners by excluding backwards compatibility. But is playing older games really that important?
If the fact Xbox One is not BC wasn't bad enough, then the fact that it also must always be online in order to play games and forces a mandatory fee to play used games is an absolute deal breaker.
- The PS4 is not BC. - Connecting to the internet once every 24 hours really shouldn't be an issue. Im pretty sure your tablet,pc. 3ds, vita, ps3, 360, phone and many more devices are connected to the internet all the time. So why should the xbox one connecting to the internet once every 24hrs is a problem for everyone? - You should be happy there is a used game fee. That money go to developers to make more games. If there was a used game fee this gen. We probably wouldn't have seen so many games close down and we probably would of seen sequels to our favorite games like mirror's edge, bayonetta and more.
Regarding Bayonetta that is a moot point, any other game is possible We have to understand here that if people on a budget are not going to pay a full price used fee that is plain silly. furthermore it seems you are not sympathising with consumers which you are part of and which and that is a little funny if true then you are simply bending over for publisher interest not the developers as far as i understand it they get thier due pay, bonus's are not decided on them unless they are independant. We should not be happy there is a used fee when we are already paying used for a game once why in the world should we double dip like that? Regarding Online it is an issue what if the internet is out for whatever reason and won't be back on till next week how is anyone suppose to play a damn game offline during that period? if you dont have a proper answer to that then save yourself the generic response. p.s also lets not forget that in the future your xbox one console can be considered paperweight junk once microsoft decides to pull the plug all that money you invested is poof gone while they laugh all the way to the bank.
-Hardware wise the PS4 isn't BC but Gaikai will be able to run older gen games. Now I know it won't run every PS1, PS2 and PS3 but at least Sony is offering something rather than nothing at all. -Why does the console need to be connected to the internet in the first place? Past consoles didn't need a internet connection to play games so why should the Xbox One get special treatment? Tablet, pc, 3ds, vita, ps3, 360 and cell phone can all function without the internet nor do they required a internet connection to function. Internet service happen to be out you're screwed. Want to take your console with you on vacation but go to place with no internet connection you're screwed. Microsoft servers are offline for any reason, you are screwed. -The developers and publishers make millions(some billions) a year regardless of used games and piracy. There hasn't been a company to shutdown due to used games or piracy. Mirror Edge and Bayonetta wouldn't been save regardless of used games. Both were new ips who publishers(EA and Sega) gave their developers the short end of the stick.
Yeah I know the PS4 is also not BC, I actually did a blog a few moths back ripping on Sony about it http://n4g.com/user/blogpos... I have no issue connecting to the Internet every 24 hours, my issue is that what if I don't want to be connected to the Internet at all while I'm gaming?, or better yet what if my Internet goes down for half a day or however long? do I just not get to play games because the Xbox One must be connected to the Internet and signed into my account before it will let me? "You should be happy there is a used game fee. That money go to developers to make more games." No no no, that is a lie and misinformation publishers spread to get gamers like you on their side, the truth is the "publishers" are the only ones who will rake in the profits gained from mandatory second hand game fees not the the developers, if you want publishers to keep making games you enjoy then find a way to convince them to develop games in a way that doesn't make them need to see a ludicrous return in sales.
difference is even being bad the lack of BC in the PS4 wich was announced 1st MS could have at least tried to implement it , any word if they keep supporting the 360? cause 1st gen xbox owners got fucked in that department and Ps3 support will continue...but no BC is the least of MS problems...if that cable box is successful gaming in the future doesnt look bright...
a Gaikai service with PS3 games on it does not = BC, and do you think for a second they will not try to make you re purchase the PS3 games you already own.
You used two examples (bayonetta and mirror's edge)... that happen to have sequels in the making... Mika you are slightly damaged man, bayonetta has a sequel in the making for WiiU and Mirror's Edge has a soon to be announced sequel for Xbox One. Most likely using the kinect 2.0 My 3ds I never connect to internet and I can play ALL MY GAMES ANY TIME I WANT. My phone loses signal all the time and it doesn't stop me from playing my games all dang day if I wish. My 360 has ZERO internet connection because I do not have a good enough WiFi to reach my side of the house and the ethernet port in my room doesn't work. A vita works regardless of internet connection. NONE OF THOSE DEVICES IS CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET ALL THE TIME. In fact the reason I love my 3ds so much, is because I can play it wherever, whenever, never worrying about wifi. I don't have to connect once a day to anything...
@perjoss The Gaikai BC works in a way so you dont have to pay. You put in you PS3 disc, the PS4 can't play it but recognises what game it is and then Gaikai boots up that game for you to play.
It's not that "it shouldn't be in issue", it's that you shouldn't have to connect to the internet at all to play a single player game. The end. Are you also that ignorant to some people not having an internet connection in certain parts of the world?
@-mika- was gonna agree with you after your first point. but then I read your other points, and well you know how that goes. Happy for used games fees? You must be either be rich or crazy, or both.
Are we really still focusing on backwards compatibility? I think we realized this gen with the 360 and PS3 how Sony and Microsoft both care about it - they don't. I guess the author won't be buying a PS4 either then....
I know, ive got over it, ive actually got use to it, I dont mind these HD Collections (some of them), I guess next gen we'll have something similar "Killzone 2 Super HD"
Let's face it, if you have a game collection for system X, then you probably already have system X to play the collection. The main point of buying the next gen system is to watch TV on, I mean, play next gen games on.
its not about caring,its about keeping the cost down as both systems would need to also implement the older infastructure.. not everyone wants to buy a console that's 600 quid or over to keep BC an option,its just not viable business. look forward not backwards is key for next gen. I'm sure once people get their minds blown on new consoled they will not want to play old gen titles n e way.. well the majority any way..
I don't get how people can talk about BC as a deal breaker. I've never purchased new hardware and gone "Gee! I can't wait to play some old games on this!" My 6th gen hardware lasted long enough (still works) to meet their emulators, and I'm sure my 7th gen hardware will as well.
One mistake here or there isn't unexpected. It's when they pile 6-7 of them all into one system that we have a problem and voice our opinion. Microsoft is kind of acting like they know what we should want and if we don't then we are wrong or the media is wrong somehow. We like game. We buy these devices to play games specifically and anything else is just a cool bonus to keep the experience that much better. It shouldn't be the other way around. Watching TV isn't going to lead to increased gaming sales. Millions of people watch tv every day. Yet a lot of those people don't game. They like TV so they buy TV's and watch TV..... If I want to record music I'm going to go to my macbook and open up Logic. I wouldn't want that connected to my gaming device and potentially have something go wrong or get hacked or whatever other reason. * They going to start installing weights in cars so we can work out while we drive ? exactly
Let me get this straight. You're praising the PS4 for its ability to play PS3 titles through the streaming service Gaikai while lambasting the XBOX One for its lack of backwards compatibility and "always online" restrictions (which is not entirely accurate). How exactly will PS4 deliver these PS3 titles to the consumer? Yeah, you guessed it...with a persistent online connection. Don't be such a hypocrite.
"You're praising the PS4 for its ability to play PS3 titles through the streaming service Gaikai" Where did you get that idea? No I'm nt praising the fact that the PS4 can play PS3 games through Gaikai since I don't think that's all that great a thing, I'd rather be able to play the PS3 games I already own on the PS4. What I dislike about the Xbone is the same thing countless critics and reviewers are n agreement with, always on or not a need to be constantly connected to the Internet and signed into my account just to simply play a game I own legally is an absolute joke, and the second hand games fee is the punch line. MS raised it's middle finger to the consumers so in turn I'll do the same.
"Gaikai BC works in a way so you don't have to pay." Please site a source for this claim. I highly doubt that Sony, or any other company, would implement a feature like this without seeking compensation. Sony paid $380 million for Gaikai. They didn't make that investment out of the goodness of their hearts.
Are you under the false impression that Sony is not going to implement a very similar stance on used games as MS has implied? I can GUARANTEE you that they are.
Maybe, we'll have to wait and see. Publishers like EA and Activision are pushing second hand game fees so if Sony want to keep games like COD and Asassins Creed on the PS4, then they may have no choice but to allow the fees and restrictions they wish to impose.
Much like PS2 -> PS3 -> PS4, backwards compatibility is not an issue with me. Even 360 wasn't fully backwards compatible. Plenty of Xbox games I owned didn't work on my 360. I shrugged it off knowing that if I wanted to play them, I could pull out the old machine or get them elsewhere for dirt cheap (read: PC).
Not everyone who purchases the PS4 is going to have had the luxury of having played the prequel games to many popular franchises that will inevitably continue on next gen consoles. BC makes sense from a consumer stand point since it lets gamers experience a legacy of games many of which influenced the industry and their effects can be seen in games even to this day, but Sony and MS don't earn cash from the sales of second hand games so it's not in their interest to encourage sales of their old software, they just repackage old titles and sell them as new like they have done with the HD re-releases of DMC, GoW, SH and MGS, only now that we have Gakai which you could argue allows new gamers to experience past titles but it's also just another avenue for Sony to earn cash off of old software many gamers still poses but is incompatible with the PS4. Honestly it just baffles me that I can play Half Life on my PC, a game that's over 10 years old now, but I can't play any of my PS3 games on a PS4 and that's considered acceptable...
That's why I specifically said "is not an issue with me". I understand the desire for some, but statistics show that the mass majority leave the old behind once they have a new console.
Zerocrossing, what you call "baffling" I call "infuriating." And for the record, even Half Life is on the "new" end of the spectrum. There's literally -no- limit to the games we can play on PC, no matter how old.
I could have sworn that there was a way to play your old ps3 games on the ps4 through cloud. I am not sure if it was during the Sony conference but I did read it somewhere.
It's only going on-line to check that you didn't install a game that yo didn't purchase. It a good feature that allows you to play a game with out having to put a disk in the hard drive. If you don't have internet then your going to have to have the disk in the drive like current generation of console. PS4 am sure will have a similar policy.. Details of fees on ps4 or xbox has not been released at this time, we can bitch on that a latter date... Im sure at some point just as much as music disk will be a thing of the past. It just like purchasing an app or game on-line....
BC would be nice but way over rated when you have the current console to play on. New console is for the next generation of games. My Opinion that most people that say there not going to by a new console because its not backwards compatible is a joke.....
Who cares if this guy doesn't buy an xbox one. The console will sell millions an millions and millions.
So its only going to sell three million? That sounds about right /s
Wii U will kill Xbox one
For me BC is not a total deal breaker BUT it does add another check mark in the Negative column for the Xbox One. My main issues are 1. Kinect required for system to work. I don’t want a surveillance system in my living room AND I will never use anything Kinect offers. It also drives the cost up for something I don’t want. Did you also realize that the new system will NOT come with a headset? AND Microsoft changed they system in such a way that your current headset won’t work with them, they are forcing their vendors to come up with a new design that work with the new system. 2. Used/Rented/borrowed game policy. Bottom line it sucks and you are greedy bastards. 3. DRM/internet required. I’m not the thief here M$, seems to me that you are in trying to steal my privacy. So if my internet is down when you happen to ping me my system shuts off and I can’t play anything? You don’t see the issue with that? 4. Disk installs. You have a 500Gb HD right? A Blu-ray holds 25Gb right? By my math that is 20 games excluding any DLC I D/L’ed, avatar items, saved videos or whatever else I wish to keep. Hmmm…. Granted the Devs may not use the full 25gb on a disk but I think you get the point. Seems to me you are forcing me to game the way you want me to game and NOT the way I want to game, Ummm who is the one that spent their money here?
I think I read somewhere that you can turn off the Kinect after you turn on the Xbox One. Disc Installs are awesome (I mean, faster boot times and whatnot. You don't hear PC gamers ranting against it) and few games are 25 GB. Most AAA titles fall under 10 GB. But yeah, the internet and used game part I agree with, unless more information is presented.
Yeah but the sound stays on, when someone bugs your phone or house they don't get vid. ;) Disk install have also broken the games, PC gamers don't rage because they can upgrade their machines to 2 TB if they wish.
I think we should do away with used games period
Uh...so what the hell is the point of external hard drives? Hello! I can just buy an 1 TB external and use it for my Xbox or, in this case, X1. So your argument for no storage space is redundant.
Oh so that is ANOTHER box hooked into ONE..... I'm sorry but I don't want this mass of boxes and wires piled up under my TV. @Corpser Agree, So they don't want to make it more expensive but they are forcing a Kinect 2.0 on me...Ummm Ok. I'll tell ya what M$, Keep your Kinect 2.0 and give me one with a BC Skew.
But will MS allow and external device to work with the system that is NOT MS certify? You can't just buy ANY HD for the current xbox you have to buy the ones MS offer and they were not cheap then not sure about now. Can you imagine how MS will charge IF you want to get an HD for the new xbox one?
Let me address some of your issues with the XBOX One: 1. Kinect must be attached to the XBOX One but you don't have to use the device unless the game requires it. If you're opposed to Kinect then don't buy the games that take advantage of the controller. You can also turn it off when its not in use. Do you really think that a multi-billion dollar company is going to risk several class action law suits just to "spy" on their consumers? Come on now, let's be realistic. As for the headset, well, that's to be expected. New technology typically requires new accessories (Apple, I'm looking at you). 2. Blame the publishers and developers. They are the ones spearheading the anti used game movement. 3. Sony and MS are both going to use some sort or DRM. If you fault MS for this then you must also take the same stance against Sony. Sony will also require internet access for such features as Gaikai. 4. Half of a Terabyte is not enough for you? Its been reported that you can attach any USB drive to the console for extra storage. See, isn't it fun to be informed!
Just Wait For E3.
"Hardware wise the PS4 isn't BC but Gaikai will be able to run older gen games. Now I know it won't run every PS1, PS2 and PS3 but at least Sony is offering something rather than nothing at all. " .......... But you would have to be connected to the internet at all times to play those games. + it will not be free. To be fair, you could just keep your ps3/360. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right? You can't bash Microsoft and give Sony a pass. Its the same situation (not entirely). Why dont we all just skip next gen!!!!!!
But we don't know what sections or mechanics of it that will be free or not. For example, maybe the downloadable games you've bought this gen (JOURNEY) will be free to stream on the GAIKAI service. We have to see. But the main thing is, Sony is at least trying....Microsoft didn't even try. To me, it's a slap in the face, especially when they are still asking you to buy new sh17 in their store now.
There was a rumour that the XB1 would include a 360 SoC for bc. I for one am very disappointed that the new box wont let me play my XBLA titles such as Trials. I would have paid more for that feature. If I buy a new iPad or phone I expect to be able to access my iTunes purchases on it. Why should the Xbox be any different as it too is built on an online store/system. The differences in architecture could have been dealt with if they wanted to but it's easier to try to resell stuff I guess. Also gutted my turtle beaches probably won't work either.
BC increases the cost of the console, cause they need to put the cell in it, unless they can somehow emulate it (witch is hard for PS360)
BC has rlly spoiled some ppl. Simply keep ur old systems. I sold my N64 BIGGEST Mistake I ever made.
Try Project 64. It's not native, but worth a go.
No BC in either PS4 or Xbox One is a huge disadvantage to many people.
I just wish the kids on this site would understand that having backwards compatibility this early in a generation just does make business sense, on any console. Why would Sony or for that matter, MS, have backwards compatibility when there is still money to be made on the PS3 and 360.
I'm far from a kid and I'll give you several reasons. 1. Space. The Xbox One is supposed to be All-In-One correct? So in addition to my current 360, PS3, cablebox/DVR and surround sound receiver I'll have to add a Xbox One? So since this is All-In-ONE which one does it replace again? BTW I also have a Sony 400 disk carousel Blu-ray player, why would I got to ONE to play ONE at a time? 2. So lets say I get rid of my 360 and replace it with the ONE. We have already been told that Devs will support the 360 for another 5 years, are there any guarantees that those supported games will be dual format? So if a Dev makes a 360 game i won't be able to play it and guess what? M$ loses a potential sale. M$ also loses any potential sales on Older NEW games I may buy for the 360 AND it's DLC. GTA5 comes to mind. So how is that smart business wise?
Console makers don't want want BC because the hardware will be more expensive Game publishers don't want BC because they can sell you old games on the new system again What I don't understand is why gamers tolerate this. Imagine buying a new pc/phone/tablet and your old games and app won't work. But hey just keep all your pc/phone/tablet to run your old games and apps! I know they are using different architectures, but it's their choice to use a different architecture this gen. At least all the gens after this one have better chance of BC now that they are standard pc architecture
I still dont understand why the f*** should new equipments have to be BC? I still play PS2 games on my PS2. I still use my gameboy, my mega drive. I wanna play PS3 ou Xbox games on those consoles not in the new ones. But its just my opinion, most people wanna buy always some new console and play the old games, those that they never play again.
Yeah I agree. You don't get that nostalgic feeling if you play old games on a new console. You want to experience that same feeling you had 10-20 years ago. It's like going back to a park that you've spent your childhood in. You want to see the hill that you rolled down with your friends, you want to see the playground that you've fallen off, you want to see those trees you've climbed when you were young. It just wouldn't be the same if they replaced the park with a mall. It's similar to where I live. There used to be rolling green hills off the side of the road as far as the eye could see. Now it's replaced with a new motorway and it just hasn't been the same. So this is an analogy with the backwards-compatibility. You want to play those old games like how you did a long time ago. Some things are better left as the past than brought to the present. Without the old consoles, playing those old games will never feel the same.
Since I have the same stance with Sony, I have to say why are you buying a next gen machine to play past gen games? Keep your old machine to play old games, whether it's in storage or under the Television. Seriously, what's the point in demanding that the current gen end, only to complain that next gen doesn't play current gen games. It boggles the mind.
In hopes they may enhance them with all the new super duper hardware and such, kinda like a Blu-ray player does with a DVD?
Yes, the real problem isn't about the backward compatibility with old gen but rather if we will be able to activate and play Xbox One games in the future when Microsoft would have stopped its service...
No matter how you size it up, it's a fail. With all the games that's coming out for PS3/Xbox360 this year like GTA5, you will have to buy that game plus a Xbox One/PS4 and a game for those consoles if your looking to go next gen. Everyone ain't rich and to not have bc will hurt them. In Sony's defense, they had to distant themselves from Cell. BC would hold people back from upgrading to the new consoles.
Is this Ryan Shaw's last console generation? Will he ever buy a console again? Tune in next week to find out! Or not...
I'm not some tech genuis, but the X1's architecture isn't compatible with 360 games. Who cares if it's not backwards compatible, just keep your old system until you finish those games, and then buy the next gen system.